THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Rman on October 08, 2007, 04:46:02 PM

Title: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Rman on October 08, 2007, 04:46:02 PM: The FF series influence on the console ''war'' has been huge. Looking back at each major installment we can see each game appeared in the console that "won" its generation.

FF 1-3 (NES) Console war winner (By a huge margin)
FF 4-6 (SNES) Console war winner (By a slight margin worldwide)
FF 7-9 (PlayStation) Console war winner (One could say that in this case FF7 was overwhelmingly important for Sony's fledging console)
FF 10-12 (PS2) Console war winner (By a huge margin)
FF 13.... (PS3) (Undecided)

Obviously, its an oversimplification to say that the FF series was responsible for the success of each console. One could argue that Square was only supporting the most popular console for its home market. However, I thought it was an interesting correlation. Will the pattern continue?

Interestingly, Enix's Dragon's Quest Series follows a similar pattern, however, its latest installment is moving outside the "console" race and supporting the DS.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy impact on the console war.
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 08, 2007, 04:50:40 PM: Grand Theft Auto had much more of an impact on last gen's console war. Yes, it eventually came out on the Xbox too but it was already too late.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy impact on the console war.
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 08, 2007, 04:55:20 PM: Final Fantasy sucks, god damn I cant take anymore of their shit.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 08, 2007, 05:01:26 PM: There are rumours that SE is offering FF13 to MS for a price. MS is not so eager to jump at the offer because they're not getting any exclusivity and Sony doesn't even have to pay anything for it. I think it's distinguished mentally-challenged too that MS has to help pay for the cost of PS3 development but they might have to do it.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 08, 2007, 05:06:01 PM: FF games arent even good anymore, theyre running on pure fanservice
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on October 08, 2007, 05:06:29 PM: Quote from: Smooth Groove on October 08, 2007, 05:01:26 PM
There are rumours that SE is offering FF13 to MS for a price. MS is not so eager to jump at the offer because they're not getting any exclusivity and Sony doesn't even have to pay anything for it. I think it's distinguished mentally-challenged too that MS has to help pay for the cost of PS3 development but they might have to do it.
I think MS will do it anyways, mainly to spite Sony, and might ask for a FFVII remake, too. Whether they get the FFVII remake is debatable, though.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: tiesto on October 08, 2007, 05:12:23 PM: Quote from: Cocky Funny on October 08, 2007, 05:06:01 PM
FF games arent even good anymore, theyre running on pure fanservice

QFT, and not the good kind (references to past games in FFIX), it's the perv/pedo/loli kind :(
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 08, 2007, 05:12:55 PM: Why the hell do people keep clamoring for a FF7 remake? I beat it and liked it back in the day but it really isn't much better than the JRPGS that have been relased since. The graphics weren't so bad either that it needs a remake since most of it were just prerendered. I could see wanting a PSP version of it but playing it again on a next-gen console makes no sense. If they do decide to remake it, they should at least have alternate plot line. FF7's gameplay isn't really strong enough on its own to make me want to play it again.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Mr. Gundam on October 08, 2007, 05:16:01 PM: I don't understand the FFVII remakes demands, either. People always whine that game developers just rehash the same old thing over and over, yet they all want a remake of FFVII. ::)

But, with that said, I can't wait for FFXIII.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: hyp on October 08, 2007, 06:41:08 PM: i'm looking forward to the FF4 remake on DS, and that's about it. FF13 seems interesting, just not enough details about it yet.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: disgruntled_jojo on October 09, 2007, 01:35:38 PM: FWIW, I was in Japan a couple months after the PS2 launch, and it wasn't exactly flying off shelves either. I'll never forget the week that FFX came out though; I actually was in line at a media store buying a used CD and the guy in front of me, in a business suit clearly having just gotten off of work, was plunking down like 70,000y for a PS2, memory card, extra controller, and FFX.

So yeah, it has some console-pushing power, no doubt.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 01:41:07 PM: The rumor circulating at the anonymous videogame retail outfit is that Square-Enix is waiting to see how The Last Remnant sells on the PS3 and Xbox 360, with the platform leading in sales most likely to get the next installment of Final Fantasy.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 09, 2007, 01:49:09 PM: Quote from: disgruntled_jojo on October 09, 2007, 01:35:38 PM
FWIW, I was in Japan a couple months after the PS2 launch, and it wasn't exactly flying off shelves either. I'll never forget the week that FFX came out though; I actually was in line at a media store buying a used CD and the guy in front of me, in a business suit clearly having just gotten off of work, was plunking down like 70,000y for a PS2, memory card, extra controller, and FFX.

So yeah, it has some console-pushing power, no doubt.

Isn't DQ far more popular than FF in Japan?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Oblivion on October 09, 2007, 01:57:15 PM: Quote from: Smooth Groove on October 09, 2007, 01:49:09 PM
Quote from: disgruntled_jojo on October 09, 2007, 01:35:38 PM
FWIW, I was in Japan a couple months after the PS2 launch, and it wasn't exactly flying off shelves either. I'll never forget the week that FFX came out though; I actually was in line at a media store buying a used CD and the guy in front of me, in a business suit clearly having just gotten off of work, was plunking down like 70,000y for a PS2, memory card, extra controller, and FFX.

So yeah, it has some console-pushing power, no doubt.

Isn't DQ far more popular than FF in Japan?

Yup. By about 2 million more, I think.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 02:16:55 PM: Quote from: Ruzbeh on October 09, 2007, 01:48:55 PM
:lol That's ridiculous, the userbase is not even the same.

In sheer numbers? No, the Xbox 360 has a definite advantage, but Square-Enix wants to see where their demographic has ended up and that's not dictated by overall hardware sales. The Xbox 360 could have thirty million users, but none of them might buy a Japanese RPG. Square wants to see how many PS2 owners made the transition to Xbot and if the Xbox 360 will be a viable platform going in.

The Wii will never get a core Final Fantasy game. Third party games sell like crap on the Wii; none of the third parties have had a Top 10 NPD seller on the Wii, whereas the Xbox 360 consistently rewards third-party developers.

Dragon Quest is a different beast than Final Fantasy altogether, its move to the DS was not really surprising. Funny, but not surprising.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Rman on October 09, 2007, 02:38:13 PM: I don't think the Wii will get a main FF game due to the nature of the machine. Since FFVII Square has been about pushing hardware and delivering amazing production values for their games. The Wii is bit underpowered for their vision. If they did make a main Final Fantasy game on Wii, I do think it will sell extremely well, especially in Japan.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Gay Boy on October 09, 2007, 02:40:50 PM: Quote from: disgruntled_jojo on October 09, 2007, 01:35:38 PM
FWIW, I was in Japan a couple months after the PS2 launch, and it wasn't exactly flying off shelves either.
PS2's early numbers were WAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAY better than PS3's in Japan though.

FFXIII will have little to no impact, Final Fantasy no longer has the power it once had.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Oblivion on October 09, 2007, 02:56:25 PM: Quote from: Willco on October 09, 2007, 02:16:55 PM
Quote from: Ruzbeh on October 09, 2007, 01:48:55 PM
:lol That's ridiculous, the userbase is not even the same.
The Wii will never get a core Final Fantasy game. Third party games sell like crap on the Wii; none of the third parties have had a Top 10 NPD seller on the Wii, whereas the Xbox 360 consistently rewards third-party developers.

RE4 Wii was in the top 10 when it came out, I believe. Probably the month after too. DQ: Swords did pretty decently as well.

I don't see why FFXIV wouldn't come to Wii, to be honest. Unless of course, those 2 million FF fans in Japan all buy FFXIII on PS3.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Himu on October 09, 2007, 03:25:04 PM: final fantasy sucks now and almost every one is starting to realize it. ffxiii won't do shit.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 03:25:51 PM: Uh, Resident Evil 4: Wii Edition was never in the NPD Top 10. August's Top 10 looked like this:

1. Madden NFL 08 (Xbox 360) -- 896.6K
2. Madden NFL 08 (PS2) -- 643.6K
3. BioShock (Xbox 360) -- 490.9K
4. Madden NFL 08 (PS3) -- 336.2K
5. Wii Play/ w remote (Wii) -- 256.8K
6. Metroid Prime 3: Corruption (Wii) -- 218.1K
7. Mario Strikers Charged (Wii) -- 147.4K
8. Guitar Hero 2 w/guitar (PS2) -- 145.4K
9. Mario Party 8 (Wii) -- 138.3K
10. Guitar Hero Encore: Rocks the 80s (PS2) -- 127.1K

... Again, no third parties. Ruzbeh, you can cry all you want, but facts are facts, Wii owners do not buy third-party games. They just don't. Sorry.

Your traditional videogame audience has shifted to Xbox 360 or remained a stingy PS2 owner; the Wii demographic is your casual non-gamer and Nintendo fan. The former is happy to just play Wii Sports and Wii Play until the machine breaks, and the latter purchases only Nintendo games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 03:33:51 PM: And for the record, on anecdotal reference alone, I've seen Resident Evil 4 push the most units out of any third-party title on the Wii. The fact that it couldn't crack the Top 10 speaks volumes about the Wii's user base. More anecdotal commentary - I think maybe one out of every ten Wii I've ever sold, a person buys a game along with it. Wii owners want the machine, not the software.

That's why the traditional heavy-hitter titles, like Resident Evil or Final Fantasy or Metal Gear Solid and such are going to PS3 and Xbox 360 - where they have a chance of selling. Sure, the traditional market is much smaller than the new casual, non-gamer market Nintendo has tapped into, but it's the only market where those titles are selling. And furthermore, the Xbox 360 sells the most third-party software out of any next-gen system thus far.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 03:35:33 PM: Gah, Rygar is right. I thought it came out in July and posted August since someone said it cracked the Top 10 afterwards. It did make it to number nine in June and fell off the Top 10 after that.

So the Wii has one third-party game in the Top 10! That month, the Xbox 360 had three third-party games in the Top 10, by the way.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 03:36:39 PM: And I think the fact that a reduced price, high profile third party game barely cracked the Top 10 and fell off afterwards, and is the only third-party game on that platform to even crack the Top 10, doesn't really change the argument much that Wii owners don't buy third-party games.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 09, 2007, 03:43:36 PM: Final Fantasy does sort of suck now. X was the last one I really cared for playing through. XII was such an abomination, and gaf is fucking distinguished mentally-challenged for calling it one of the best in the series.

I'm anxious to see where XIII decides to go in terms of gameplay and art, but so far I'm not really blown away.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on October 09, 2007, 03:49:28 PM: I'm looking forward to FFXIII more than any other big-budget next-gen game, mostly because Tsuchida is in charge of the battle system + Hamauzu doing the soundtrack.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Himu on October 09, 2007, 03:52:21 PM: Those are the two things that have me interested but, the game looks like fucking advent children and absolutely ridiculous.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Mondain on October 09, 2007, 03:57:59 PM: What, Square would wait to see The Last Remnant's performance to put the inevitable FF XIV on either 360 or PS3 when the franchise matters immensely in Japan first and foremost, and when the 360 is dead in the water there? What's with such ridiculous hearsay? Never in hell. :lol

Nomura and the other head designers of FF are big fanboys of the PS3's hardware too, and of PlayStation platforms in general, as is heralded by stuff like FFVII Crisis Core. FFXIV will be PS3-bound save for an act of God.

Final Fantasy doesn't matter, and wouldn't make a difference anymore now? FFXIII is only, oh, Japan's most eagerly awaited title. Yeah, right, it won't convince at least, at least a million and a half Japanese gamers to buy a PS3? Not to mention that Wii hardware sales are slowing immensely, while lots of third party exclusive japanese PS3 games are unveiled these times around, and Sony is on the brink of launching its new cheaper 40 GB PS3 with a new white theme.

Final Fantasy still has the same enormous pull, and both Sony and Square are making sure that it'll be a big PS3 killer app, why are people doubting that and spreading nonsensical rumors? The Microsoft moneyhat rumor wasn't about FFXIII either, but about FFXIII versus being a timed exclusive, get your facts straight. And it was most definitely a lie, done by a site looking for hits. When their last trailers were demonstrated, both FFXIII and FXIII versus were accompanied by the mention "ONLY on PS3".

This board is insane at times.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Himu on October 09, 2007, 04:00:19 PM: 1 million isn't enough these days, and if you really think 1 million jappa's will buy a ps3 for ff13 you're crazy
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: TVC15 on October 09, 2007, 04:02:50 PM: Honestly, FF's presence on the PS2 had nothing to do with PS2 winning. There was no way PS2 was going to lose that race.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 04:03:45 PM: Final Fantasy is just as big in America as it is in Japan. This is not a Dragon Quest-like franchise with a niche audience in the States, Final Fantasy is as American as apple pie nowadays. Ignoring the American market is suicide, Square recognizes this, which is why The Last Remnant is even taking into consideration the Western audience - something they would've never considered a hardware generation ago.

This is a console flame war, it's just statistics. Third party games sell on the 360, the PS3 install base is not there, Final Fantasy is big in the States and Square would logically want to tap into the biggest RPG-buying demo they have. Maybe by the time The Last Remnant hits, it'll be on the PS3. Don't get your panties in a bunch.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Himu on October 09, 2007, 04:05:01 PM: Final Fantasy's western audience has stifled through the years.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Mondain on October 09, 2007, 04:13:20 PM: the crux of the 360 audience isn't made out of fans of Japanese RPG games, and it seems like Blue Dragon bombed pretty terribly too, it's not for no reason that Mass Effect is a shooter with RPG elements and not the reverse

even if they're of a very high quality, it's probably the fate that awaits Lost Odyssey and Infinite Undiscovery too

also, I'm pretty sure that Final Fantasy XII sold about twice as much in Japan as it did in North America, if not more

Final Fantasy is such an icon that if hypothetically Square would make a Final Fantasy XIV for Xbox 360-only they'd get hated on to no end by the Japanese press and by Japanese gamers alike for betraying their homeland

no matter what, the PS3 userbase is going to grow substantially, even in a worst case scenario, and a 399$ system is only going to help third party games to sell more

third party PS3 games have a nice attach rate, Madden 2008 even sold more per pro rata on PS3 than on 360 based on August's NPD, it's just that the userbase is smaller
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 04:29:19 PM: DUDES SQUARE HAS TO MAKE FINAL FANTASY FOR THE PS3 THE JAPANESE PRESS WOULD BE SO ANGRY!!! ROAR!!!

If you let one country's media dictate your business decisions, instead of using something called logic, I'm going to call it Mondainia.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 09, 2007, 04:30:30 PM: Why is Mundane acting like he's Japanese? Grand Theft Auto sold many more PS2s anyway than FF.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Fake Shemp on October 09, 2007, 04:33:26 PM: Grand Theft Auto was much more instrumental in making the PS2 a success, but you can't discount that Final Fantasy is a heavy-hitting hardcore franchise that pushes units (albeit not the mainstream juggernaut that Grand Theft Auto is).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Oblivion on October 09, 2007, 04:36:07 PM: Willco, it's true that most games aren't selling that well on Wii, but let's be fair, no one's actually trying. At all. Comparing high profile games like Bioshock with the likes of, I dunno, Boogie, is hardly appropriate.

Quote
Honestly, FF's presence on the PS2 had nothing to do with PS2 winning. There was no way PS2 was going to lose that race

This is pretty much it. Sony managed to get a lock on the major exclusives, plus GTA III ending up to become what it did was a major blow to the other two. MS was the new guy, and Nintendo did a great job of sabotaging themselves in several ways. It wasn't a competition, it was a coronation party by the time they launched.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Mondain on October 09, 2007, 04:36:32 PM: It would end up being extremely controversial and greatly taint Square's reputation I'm sure of it, sorta like Nintendo picking up Philips for their SNES CD-ROM add-on project instead of Sony in the early nineties, that apparently made the Japanese press go berserk; now there's the blogosphere and forums, and Japanese gamers on the Internet wouldn't be as politically correct

you know how western games and western systems are perceived in Japan

Wikipedia says that Final Fantasy XII did sell more than two million copies in Japan, and there was a re-edition with widescreen support and an english dub too that was sold later on IIRC, generating more sales

IIRC again, FFXII sold a bit more than a million in NA

Famitsu surveys indicate that Final Fantasy XIII is just about the gamer's most awaited game after perhaps trash like Wii Fit (yuck) whereas the franchise's degree of hype is much smaller in NA and Europe

How is it not sound logic to see that when it comes to Final Fantasy, Japan prevails on everything?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 09, 2007, 05:01:30 PM: Wikipedia also says that FFX is the 11th best selling game in NA since the turn of the Century. It's pretty dumb to claim that FF won't sell as much in NA when not only is the franchise popular in NA but NA gamers also buy far more consoles than the Japanese.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Bloodwake on October 09, 2007, 05:36:33 PM: Final Fantasy has NO console pushing power anymore.

Hell, it didn't even have it last gen. Hell, I can argue that the only console Final Fantasy mattered in terms of system sales is the PS1, and that's mainly more because FFVII popularized the RPG in America to a degree never seen in gaming before that time.

People will buy PS3s for FFXIII, but it's not going to make Sony win the console war by any means. Honestly, MGS4 is more likely to do that if anything.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Himu on October 09, 2007, 05:52:48 PM: You're post would be correct Bloodwake, except that I seriously doubt even MGS4 will be helping out ps3 that much. MGS3 didn't do that well compared to past games, and MGS4 has more obstacles in front of it than past MGSs. Being on a 600 dollar console, for one. Final Fantasy AND MGS have no console pushing power anymore. The few that will be buy the console just for them are a minority and extermely faithful/hardcore fans.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Bloodwake on October 09, 2007, 06:54:16 PM: Quote from: Himuro on October 09, 2007, 05:52:48 PM
You're post would be correct Bloodwake, except that I seriously doubt even MGS4 will be helping out ps3 that much. MGS3 didn't do that well compared to past games, and MGS4 has more obstacles in front of it than past MGSs. Being on a 600 dollar console, for one. Final Fantasy AND MGS have no console pushing power anymore. The few that will be buy the console just for them are a minority and extermely faithful/hardcore fans.

That was a pretty big "if anything" though.

MGS4 might because it looks fucking awesome and it's the best example of what the system can do.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Gay Boy on October 09, 2007, 07:26:30 PM: MGS4 can't push a system to a lead. It's a hardcore gamer franchise. Hardcore gamers have very little control over the market.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: abrader on October 09, 2007, 07:46:03 PM: i think they have whored it too much for it to be a war winner this time.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Gay Boy on October 09, 2007, 08:00:58 PM: People who think MGS (or even FF to a certain extent these days) can decide a war read too many video game message boards, the real world doesn't buy games like that. They buy Madden and GTA (or Wii Sports lol).
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Sceneman on October 09, 2007, 08:03:49 PM: Im 99% certain that we'll see MGS4 on the 360
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on October 09, 2007, 08:26:58 PM: Quote from: Willco on October 09, 2007, 01:41:07 PM
The rumor circulating at the anonymous videogame retail outfit is that Square-Enix is waiting to see how The Last Remnant sells on the PS3 and Xbox 360, with the platform leading in sales most likely to get the next installment of Final Fantasy.
That's kinda what I expected to hear.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
::preorders ten copies of the X360 version::
[close]
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Gay Boy on October 09, 2007, 10:07:29 PM: Quote from: Scenester on October 09, 2007, 08:03:49 PM
Im 99% certain that we'll see MGS4 on the 360
Who isn't at this point?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: The Sceneman on October 09, 2007, 10:36:10 PM: Many Sfags
Title: Re: Final Fantasy impact on the console war.
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 10, 2007, 12:12:06 AM: Quote from: Smooth Groove on October 08, 2007, 04:50:40 PM
Grand Theft Auto had much more of an impact on last gen's console war. Yes, it eventually came out on the Xbox too but it was already too late.
qft

Final Fantasy will have nothing to do with who wins this gen.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: abrader on October 10, 2007, 09:37:08 AM: A Capcom choice reflects what will be a Squeenix choice?

Do tell?

Do they have the same masseuse?
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Himu on October 10, 2007, 09:37:48 AM: the only time final fantasy ever made a big deal was in the ps1 era.

all the other times, they just HAPPENED to be on the best system. The systems weren't the most popular BECAUSE of them.
Title: Re: Final Fantasy's impact on the console war.
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 10, 2007, 12:17:04 PM: Quote from: Himuro on October 10, 2007, 09:37:48 AM
the only time final fantasy ever made a big deal was in the ps1 era.

all the other times, they just HAPPENED to be on the best system. The systems weren't the most popular BECAUSE of them.

.