THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 05:54:05 PM

Title: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 05:54:05 PM
Mainly thanks to FoC and JayDubya.  I mean, there may be parts of the ideology I agree with, but I refuse to be affiliated, even if in name only, to something that attracts such mental dregs.  Maybe I should align myself with a front that doesn't attract people so dumb and blinded by simple idealism, like, say, the Nazi party.  Or maybe I should just become totally politically agnostic, a political pro cynic, no doubt the true position for someone as coldly logical as myself.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: demi on November 05, 2007, 05:55:39 PM
Yeah just be a snarky prick, that rocks
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Bloodwake on November 05, 2007, 05:55:44 PM
Mainly thanks to FoC and JayDubya.  I mean, there may be parts of the ideology I agree with, but I refuse to be affiliated, even if in name only, to something that attracts such mental dregs.  Maybe I should align myself with a front that doesn't attract people so dumb and blinded by simple idealism, like, say, the Nazi party.  Or maybe I should just become totally politically agnostic, a political pro cynic, no doubt the true position for someone as coldly logical as myself.

Take it from me, someone who started caring about politics. It's hard to stop.

Quote
Yeah just be a snarky prick, that rocks

There ya go.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Barry Egan on November 05, 2007, 06:05:45 PM
I like to keep the entire political sector of my conscious completely unexamined, because it's clearly an inconsequential mugs game.  A slight variation in taxes, a few liberties taken here and received there.  When the revolution ignites, I'll count both decks and make an educated play.  Other than that, my nihilistic self-satisfaction keeps me snug.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Smooth Groove on November 05, 2007, 06:09:07 PM
Libertarian is also a misnomer if they're all as racist as FOC.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Fresh Prince on November 05, 2007, 06:09:40 PM
I think Libertarians have all had hard childhoods where there was no one to love them. That's why they lack basic empathy.

Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 05, 2007, 06:10:11 PM
Welcome back to reality, Whitey.  You were never gonna make it as a Libertarian believing in universal health care anyhow.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 06:10:42 PM
Libertarian is also a misnomer if they're all as racist as FOC.

I'm not racist.  Everything I say is driven by rationality.  Naruto has taught me that asian people are pathetically weak, and television has taught me that black people are good at being funny butlers.  And MySpace has taught me himumu is short.

Where is the racism?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Smooth Groove on November 05, 2007, 06:12:28 PM
Libertarian is also a misnomer if they're all as racist as FOC.

I'm not racist.  Everything I say is driven by rationality.  Naruto has taught me that asian people are pathetically weak, and television has taught me that black people are good at being funny butlers.  And MySpace has taught me himumu is short.

Where is the racism?

I said FOC, Mr. Coldly Logical
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 06:16:33 PM
Libertarian is also a misnomer if they're all as racist as FOC.

I'm not racist.  Everything I say is driven by rationality.  Naruto has taught me that asian people are pathetically weak, and television has taught me that black people are good at being funny butlers.  And MySpace has taught me himumu is short.

Where is the racism?

I said FOC, Mr. Coldly Logical

Oh Jesus,  I'd been lost in the darkness for so long that I got confused by that, or something.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 05, 2007, 06:18:33 PM
What Mister Cohen said. I am 100% behind the GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY PERSONAL LIFE component, but I can find no rational angle to support the TAXATION IS TYRANNY, FREE MARKET IS JESUS, GOLD STANDARD 4 LIFE wacko set.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: cloudwalking on November 05, 2007, 06:19:42 PM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 06:20:32 PM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics
Aren't all politics ass-backwards?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 05, 2007, 06:21:12 PM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics

Yes, but I'm not guaranteed to get to be tied up in Jarosh's basement, am I?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: cloudwalking on November 05, 2007, 06:21:58 PM
not in switzerland, everyone is too busy skiing and making cheese to give a rat's ass
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 06:22:31 PM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics

I want to!  I need to get all my medical shit taken care of before I do that though.  I do need to contact Jarosh again though.

And I wouldn't mind being tied up in his basement.  
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: cloudwalking on November 05, 2007, 06:26:46 PM
i think we can accommodate you, then
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 06:27:26 PM
i think we can accommodate you, then
What do people in Switzerland think of flipper people?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: cloudwalking on November 05, 2007, 06:28:34 PM
they are universally hated and shunned. set foot on swiss soil and you'll be shot on sight.

stay far, far away
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 06:31:28 PM
Then what do they think of gay/bi/transsexual people?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 06:35:26 PM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Switzerland

It doesn't say anything about hating flipper people ???
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 06:38:50 PM
They can't publicly say that.  It's not very PC.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 06:39:51 PM
They can't publicly say that.  It's not very PC.
Neither is EB.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Fresh Prince on November 05, 2007, 07:30:07 PM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7054932.stm
Yes because Swiss politics is so much better.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 05, 2007, 07:41:05 PM
I have no empathy because I'm rich and fuck the poors.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 07:41:40 PM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7054932.stm
Yes because Swiss politics is so much better.
Clouned!
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Rman on November 05, 2007, 07:52:54 PM
I find it very hard to categorize myself with any particular ideology.  I find that I agree with many points and disagree with many points from a broad base of political views.  I skew blue, though. 
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 08:00:42 PM
My understanding of the more complex workings of the economy is so shaky I can't even properly take a stance on any fiscal issues anyway.

Someone post one of those political stance quizzes so I can kill 5 minutes.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:05:55 PM
My understanding of the more complex workings of the economy is so shaky I can't even properly take a stance on any fiscal issues anyway.

Someone post one of those political stance quizzes so I can kill 5 minutes.
http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html (http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz.html)

Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:06:52 PM
This is me.
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=10&e=9)

Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 05, 2007, 08:11:25 PM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=4)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 08:13:17 PM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=7)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:14:23 PM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=4)

Thats might close to libertarian!  :o
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Oblivion on November 05, 2007, 08:15:20 PM
I didn't know JayDubya was a libertarian.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 05, 2007, 08:15:24 PM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=5)

Shit.

I'm close to Patel, though.  :D
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 05, 2007, 08:15:37 PM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=4)

Thats might close to libertarian!  :o

Well, it is a quiz from a libertarian website. So of course the quiz is biased to convince me I'm "really" a libertarian. Good try though.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 05, 2007, 08:16:37 PM
Bogus test, but here are my results:

(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=8&e=5)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 08:17:12 PM
That was disappointingly short. Where is that huge one that GAF had? I remember it being 4-6 pages of questions.

(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=9&e=5)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 05, 2007, 08:17:43 PM
Yea, that quiz kinda sucked.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 08:18:21 PM
http://www.politicalcompass.org/test
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:19:54 PM
Well, it is a quiz from a libertarian website. So of course the quiz is biased to convince me I'm "really" a libertarian. Good try though.
:santocry :tbslol :tbslol :tbslol :tbslol


Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 05, 2007, 08:23:23 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-5.50&soc=-4.82)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 08:24:04 PM
That test is totally bogus.  It has like 5 questions and they are all extremely simplified scenarios.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:26:01 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-5.50&soc=-4.82)
:o Looks pretty similar!

Go ahead and admit it Patel. You're Ron Paul voter!


Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 05, 2007, 08:27:42 PM
I think we need to take into account my ranking on the "batshit insane" rating before we draw that conclusion!

Besides, even if I were a "Ron Paul voter," it's not like I'll ever get the chance--he'll be out by the time the primaries arrive in California. ;)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 08:29:18 PM
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -3.50
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -1.54

(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-3.50&soc=-1.54)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Fresh Prince on November 05, 2007, 08:30:18 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-0.88&soc=-1.18)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 05, 2007, 08:31:26 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.25&soc=-2.62)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 08:32:38 PM
Your political compass
Economic Left/Right: -4.62
Social Libertarian/Authoritarian: -6.10

(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.62&soc=-6.10)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 05, 2007, 08:33:14 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.25&soc=-7.13)

:(
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 05, 2007, 08:34:22 PM
Better start moving that dot up if you don't want to be a libertarian!
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:44:15 PM
Better start moving that dot up if you don't want to be a libertarian!
:lol :lol

All of you look like Ron Paul fans. Why dont you guys quit the act and just start supporting him.

Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 05, 2007, 08:44:37 PM
FoC you fucking idiot.

All of these are LEFT. Paul is on the RIGHT half.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:47:13 PM
FoC you fucking idiot.

All of these are LEFT. Paul is on the RIGHT half.

All of those dots look like they are leaning towards Libertarian...
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 08:52:46 PM
FoC you fucking idiot.

All of these are LEFT. Paul is on the RIGHT half.

All of those dots look like they are leaning towards Libertarian...
Are you serious?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 08:56:37 PM
FoC you fucking idiot.

All of these are LEFT. Paul is on the RIGHT half.

All of those dots look like they are leaning towards Libertarian...
Are you serious?

They dont look authoritarian to me.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 05, 2007, 09:01:11 PM
Ron Paul's not Libertarian, though. He's Republican. That's on the right.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Flannel Boy on November 05, 2007, 09:10:55 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-1.50&soc=-2.56)

(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=7&e=3)

sigh
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 05, 2007, 09:11:32 PM
Can't be a real Libertarian without killin them babies.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 05, 2007, 09:16:16 PM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=8&e=2)

(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-10.00&soc=-7.64)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 09:18:23 PM
Can't be a real Libertarian without killin them babies.
Unless you're JayDubya.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: drohne on November 05, 2007, 09:18:40 PM
jaydubya is hilarious. he's one of those people who think ideology is an effectivee substitute for thought and knowledge, and so he manages to reach the most vehement conclusions on every subject. i don't know whether i pity him or envy him -- his world is so much simpler
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 05, 2007, 09:19:59 PM
he also seems to think that if he believes something more strongly than you, he's more likely to be correct
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Candyflip on November 05, 2007, 09:21:30 PM
He can argue a point to death though.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Fragamemnon on November 05, 2007, 09:22:23 PM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-10.00&soc=-7.64)

I am the north half of your PT boat if this was a game of battleship.  :-*

BTW:

32nd evilbore eurosocialist battalion = bottom left.
ron paul lolshow = bottom right.
foc = bottom barrel.

I'm only a bit to the north of that because I have a terrible, but specifically targeted/isolated authoritarian streak that these gamed up questions never really bring up too much.

edit: Jaydubya is pretty much a joke character in any political thread, he's there to take potshots at and nothing more.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 05, 2007, 10:03:12 PM
to the contrary, foc, if that's where your political disposition ACTUALLY falls, you should be in the john edwards camp with the rest of us sane folks, not out there in libertarian ron paul lolshow country.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: drozmight on November 05, 2007, 10:39:50 PM
What Mister Cohen said. I am 100% behind the GET THE FUCK OUT OF MY PERSONAL LIFE component, but I can find no rational angle to support the TAXATION IS TYRANNY, FREE MARKET IS JESUS, GOLD STANDARD 4 LIFE wacko set.

word.

too much tax blows though.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 05, 2007, 10:45:43 PM
to the contrary, foc, if that's where your political disposition ACTUALLY falls, you should be in the john edwards camp with the rest of us sane folks, not out there in libertarian ron paul lolshow country.
I dont like his issue with immigration.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Synbios459 on November 05, 2007, 10:57:41 PM
You know who has a good answer for immigration?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
NOBODY
[close]
I DO!
Build one of these baby's and all your problems will be solved. Worked for the Russians.
(http://www.bbc.co.uk/schools/gcsebitesize/history/images/hist_berlin_wall.jpg)
(http://www.cs.utah.edu/~hatch/images/europe/berlin.buildwall.jpg)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: cloudwalking on November 06, 2007, 01:59:47 AM
just move the fuck out of the country like i did, then you don't have to give a fuck about ass-backwards american politics
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7054932.stm
Yes because Swiss politics is so much better.

hey, i've been over this before -- they only want to keep the bad foreigners out. it's not my fault that canadians are part of the elite group of first-class foreigners!

oh, and i've done that political compass test before, i got this:

(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-2.38&soc=-4.31)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: thekavorka on November 06, 2007, 02:11:30 AM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.75&soc=-3.64)

Seems to be around the evilbore average.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: warcock on November 06, 2007, 02:21:22 AM
Mainly thanks to FoC and JayDubya.  I mean, there may be parts of the ideology I agree with, but I refuse to be affiliated, even if in name only, to something that attracts such mental dregs.  Maybe I should align myself with a front that doesn't attract people so dumb and blinded by simple idealism, like, say, the Nazi party.  Or maybe I should just become totally politically agnostic, a political pro cynic, no doubt the true position for someone as coldly logical as myself.
Coldly logical. Werent you the one making me the whole charade about art being infinitely complex a positive thing?
Never figured you as a Kant cum sipper. :o Deconstruction ftw fool.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Ichirou on November 06, 2007, 02:25:39 AM
JayDubya disgusts me, he is so blinded by his bizarre beliefs.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: etiolate on November 06, 2007, 02:27:46 AM
Then what do they think of gay/bi/transsexual people?

Okay as long as they are white!
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: etiolate on November 06, 2007, 02:46:32 AM
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=8&e=5)
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-4.62&soc=-5.33)

Considering how weak the one test is, its interesting both plotted me roughly the same place, but the reality of my 'politics' is not easily defined within any one group, outside of maybe Christian anarchism, but that is more extreme than where I am now.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: bluemax on November 06, 2007, 03:52:34 AM
I remember in highschool when we had to self identify ourselves in AP government by political affiliation the kids who declared themselves Libertarian were by far the most distinguished mentally-challenged kids in the class.

Interestingly enough the co valedictorians were in that class. One sat to the far left and the other to the far right.

I sat in the middle of the political spectrum because I had no fucking idea what I believe in.

(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=-3.88&soc=-3.64)

The lack of "I'm indifferent" on this test really killed me. I hate being forced to lean one way on some things.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Fresh Prince on November 06, 2007, 04:18:48 AM
I remember doing this test and I was dead centre.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: captainbiotch on November 06, 2007, 04:39:44 AM
(http://www.politicalcompass.org/facebook/pcgraphpng.php?ec=6.62&soc=-5.90)

 :lol
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 07:16:36 AM
On a personal, ideological level, I am probably very close to resembling an anarchist, but even the most basic intervention of logic lets me know that not only will such a system ever exist, but the possibility of it ever working out well is slim to none, for various reasons.  Same goes to libertarianism in all of its forms--nice on paper, but the corrupt nature of humanity makes it a terrible system.  Same for, oh, socialism--infamously good on paper, but the untrustworthy, corruptable, and greedy man makes it working impossibile.  And capitalism--hey, our hybrid system has worked decently enough, but man's cruel natures have made it rotten like the other two.

Just like the communist and the capitalist, libertarianism sounds like a good ideoloy, but in reality it would be as bad as anything else.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 06, 2007, 07:25:44 AM
I can dig that hybrid system TVC, I guess my feelings is that it's time for the pendulim of politics to swing back towards smaller government for a while. Repeal the patriot act, bring our troops home and protect our liberties.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 07:35:51 AM
He can argue a point to death though.

Not really.  When you battle him down to it, his support of Libertarianism comes down to 3 basic things, all of them see-through dumb:

1) The market will correct itself.  He does a good job of avoiding saying it, but the concept is behind many of his arguments.  As a matter of fact, this concept is similar to number 2, which I have given its own number because he does mention this one, and I think the power construct behind it is a little different.

2) Things were better in the 19th century.  This is a sort of bizarre appeal to ignorance, where he tells all listeners that things were better in the 19th century, pre-Upton Sinclair, and expecting them to believe that.  Since he appears to be effective at arguing, I guess the gambit works, but there is really no substance at all to this argument.  Even the most basic research will tell you that life blew in the 19th century.  This isn't even worth citing examples.  There is a valid related argument within this, though, with a citable example, but since I believe all of his arguments come from things he has read, and that he fails at independent thought, he has never pieced it together.   And since he probably won't ever come to Evilbore to pick it up, read it, and use it, I may as well just mention it in one sentence:  Prohibition in the 20s is a better supporter of his claim than the DURRR THINGS WERE BETTER IN THE 19TH CENTURY GEORGE, HUHYUK!

3) Government regulations treat people like they are stupid.  Various regulations like the FDA and what not by their very existence tell man that he is stupid.  Do *you* think man is stupid?  If you support these institutions, you *MUST* think man is stupid!  Guess what, JayBubya and FoC? Man is stupid.  Especially Americans.  Do you need evidence of this?  I can't see how he gets away with arguing this point.  Has he ever been to the midwest?  The south?  Even 10 minutes in the nations biggest cities will tell you how dumb mankind is in general.  Do we need to be protected from ourselves?  Absolutely.  Are the current bodies that do so particularly good at doing it?  No, and I doubt they ever will be, but that is not the point here--JayDubya s arguing a blatantly incorrect reason on why they should not exist.

Mainly thanks to FoC and JayDubya.  I mean, there may be parts of the ideology I agree with, but I refuse to be affiliated, even if in name only, to something that attracts such mental dregs.  Maybe I should align myself with a front that doesn't attract people so dumb and blinded by simple idealism, like, say, the Nazi party.  Or maybe I should just become totally politically agnostic, a political pro cynic, no doubt the true position for someone as coldly logical as myself.
Coldly logical. Werent you the one making me the whole charade about art being infinitely complex a positive thing?
Never figured you as a Kant cum sipper. :o Deconstruction ftw fool.

I fail to see why a belief in logic prevents me from appreciating art.  On the contrary, I'd put good money on me being one of the best interpreters there is on this forum, fairly easily.  It's one of the things, the very few things, that I think I am superlative at.  I have never put meta-thought into precisely why I am great at it, asides from dumping a significant portion of my life into it, but if I had put the time into such thought, I bet I would come out again, proud of my logical capacities.

But to put it in short, warcock, I think you would have to be a fool to think that logic and deep appreciation of art are mutually exclusive things.  Of course, when has your foolishness ever been something not on the table for all to see, my CS-loving compadre?

And I haven't read Kant in almost a decade.  I would have to go to wiki i I even wanted the basics, so I won't put a show on of pretending here.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Ichirou on November 06, 2007, 07:40:32 AM
JayDubya has also said that racism doesn't really exist anymore, because it doesn't count if it's said behind closed doors and isn't out in the open. :lol
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 07:44:55 AM
JayDubya has also said that racism doesn't really exist anymore, because it doesn't count if it's said behind closed doors and isn't out in the open. :lol

Well, I was trying to stick to things I knew I could support in my big skewering, but here, I'll say it:  JayDubya is a closet internet republican that likes to argue, but knows that fewer people will outright laugh at him if he hides behind the libertarian name.  He knows fewer people will argue over libertarianism because Internet Joe Sixpack largely still can't define a libertarian, and thus will shy away from arguments.  Being a closet republican, JayDubya "gets off" on bullying the "little guy."  That is actually the biggest giveaway of his nature.

Oddly enough, he puts up his "DO YOU THONK PEOPLE ARE STUPID" argument, when the whole crux of his vocalism comes down to trying to start arguments with people that don't know what they are talking about.  Good ol hypocrisy, well-known amongst all politicals.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 06, 2007, 08:09:45 AM
I can dig that hybrid system TVC, I guess my feelings is that it's time for the pendulim of politics to swing back towards smaller government for a while. Repeal the patriot act, bring our troops home and protect our liberties.
Except the public is in the mood for BIG government right now. The public wants universal health care more than they ever had in the past.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Ichirou on November 06, 2007, 08:10:00 AM
He's also not very well informed about politics but whenever someone tells him he's really misinformed (like talking about Ayatollah Khomeini as though he were still alive), he'll try to laugh it off ("Oh, those middle eastern names sound similar").

It's weird how he puts on the expert hat but comes across as clearly uninformed about a variety of topics he tries to speak authoritatively on.  About the only thing I trust him on is Evangelion. :lol
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 08:16:42 AM
Yes, he's never above laughing off when he's wrong with a joke, either.  When you catch me with my pants down, I almost always (I'd like to say always) own up to my mistake.  You see egg on my face all the fucking time.  You see it on JayDubya's, too, but he just appears to be a jackass.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 06, 2007, 08:40:51 AM
I can dig that hybrid system TVC, I guess my feelings is that it's time for the pendulim of politics to swing back towards smaller government for a while. Repeal the patriot act, bring our troops home and protect our liberties.
Except the public is in the mood for BIG government right now. The public wants universal health care more than they ever had in the past.

Bzzzt. Wrong.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Barry Egan on November 06, 2007, 09:02:22 AM
Mainly thanks to FoC and JayDubya.  I mean, there may be parts of the ideology I agree with, but I refuse to be affiliated, even if in name only, to something that attracts such mental dregs.  Maybe I should align myself with a front that doesn't attract people so dumb and blinded by simple idealism, like, say, the Nazi party.  Or maybe I should just become totally politically agnostic, a political pro cynic, no doubt the true position for someone as coldly logical as myself.
Coldly logical. Werent you the one making me the whole charade about art being infinitely complex a positive thing?
Never figured you as a Kant cum sipper. :o Deconstruction ftw fool.

Uhh, Kant sees art as one of the three domains of human understanding and mans one contact with the sublime.  wtf are you talking about?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 06, 2007, 10:15:56 AM
I can dig that hybrid system TVC, I guess my feelings is that it's time for the pendulim of politics to swing back towards smaller government for a while. Repeal the patriot act, bring our troops home and protect our liberties.
Except the public is in the mood for BIG government right now. The public wants universal health care more than they ever had in the past.

Bzzzt. Wrong.

Wow, what a great post.  All of the evidence you linked to, poll numbers etc...  You've really come a long way.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 06, 2007, 10:26:27 AM
I can dig that hybrid system TVC, I guess my feelings is that it's time for the pendulim of politics to swing back towards smaller government for a while. Repeal the patriot act, bring our troops home and protect our liberties.
Except the public is in the mood for BIG government right now. The public wants universal health care more than they ever had in the past.

Bzzzt. Wrong.
Explain this:
Quote
10/23/07-10/29/07
"Do you think it's the government's responsibility to provide health insurance for those who can't afford it, or don't you think so?"
Think It Is: 60%
Think It Isn't: 33%


The vast majority want GOVERNMENT PROVIDED health care!  :o :o
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Mandark on November 06, 2007, 10:32:53 AM
jaydubya is hilarious. he's one of those people who think ideology is an effectivee substitute for thought and knowledge, and so he manages to reach the most vehement conclusions on every subject. i don't know whether i pity him or envy him -- his world is so much simpler

I think that's way closer than TVC's take (ie JD is a Republican in libertarian clothing).  Fake libbies are more like Glenn Reynolds.

My favorite JD moment was this, on the subject of Washington, DC: (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=147300&page=2)

Quote from: JayDubya
Maybe the problem is that the city itself is too large, because the government has grown absurdly large?

There really shouldn't be any residential areas there, though. The whole thing is just strange to me. I assumed most people commuted from wherever they lived until learning just how absurdly dense the population is.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 10:44:46 AM
Is Hillary a phony Democrat?  Oh I mean fake Democrat, fake.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Mandark on November 06, 2007, 10:49:38 AM
How could someone even be a fake Democrat?  It's party, not a philosophy.  Would you lie about the paperwork you filed?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Tauntaun on November 06, 2007, 11:02:48 AM
(http://newsimg.bbc.co.uk/media/images/44099000/jpg/_44099666_swissposter2_afp203b.jpg)

:rofl
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 11:08:13 AM
How could someone even be a fake Democrat?  It's party, not a philosophy.  Would you lie about the paperwork you filed?

:eyeroll
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on November 06, 2007, 01:04:06 PM
I can dig that hybrid system TVC, I guess my feelings is that it's time for the pendulim of politics to swing back towards smaller government for a while. Repeal the patriot act, bring our troops home and protect our liberties.
Except the public is in the mood for BIG government right now. The public wants universal health care more than they ever had in the past.

Bzzzt. Wrong.
Explain this:
Quote
10/23/07-10/29/07
"Do you think it's the government's responsibility to provide health insurance for those who can't afford it, or don't you think so?"
Think It Is: 60%
Think It Isn't: 33%


The vast majority want GOVERNMENT PROVIDED health care!  :o :o


Bzzzt. Wrong.

FoC is clearly bad at interpreting poll numbers, as he thinks 1-2% a viable candidate makes. So.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 01:07:42 PM
jaydubya is hilarious. he's one of those people who think ideology is an effectivee substitute for thought and knowledge, and so he manages to reach the most vehement conclusions on every subject. i don't know whether i pity him or envy him -- his world is so much simpler

I think that's way closer than TVC's take (ie JD is a Republican in libertarian clothing).  Fake libbies are more like Glenn Reynolds.

That's why I didn't officially state that portion.  It was more of a feeling than anything I could back up.  His stances are there because of his cold bastard DON'T TAX ME heart than they are because of his love of freedom.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 01:39:37 PM
Meh, I have less against him than I have against people like Mandark, who assert you need to have 100% ideological purity in order to not be considered a phony.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Mandark on November 06, 2007, 02:19:37 PM
Tosh.  If you don't think JD draws ideological lines in the sand, you've never seen him post on Bill Maher.

Nobody's forced to tailor their beliefs to a category pre-fitted by society, but if a person chooses one of those labels to describe themselves, then I expect some honesty in that description.  There's wiggle room, and the meanings of the terms are up for debate, but at some points the disconnect becomes too large to ignore.

Same deal as a "Marxist" who wants to privatize national industries, or a soi-disant feminist who uses slut as an unironic pejorative.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 03:36:36 PM
Tosh?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Mandark on November 06, 2007, 03:44:16 PM
Indeed. (http://www.urbandictionary.com/define.php?term=tosh)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 03:58:37 PM
Are you a real Brit or a phony brit?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 04:00:20 PM
Are you a real Brit or a phony brit?

Figures that the liberal WORSHIPS THE QUEEN.  Probably promises freedom just so he can give the nation back to Her Majesty once our guard is down.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Mandark on November 06, 2007, 04:05:29 PM

Figures that the liberal WORSHIPS THE QUEEN.  Probably promises freedom just so he can give the nation back to Her Majesty once our guard is down.

I just hope nobody finds out about the years I spent at a radical Anglo-fascist madrassa Strand on the Green.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 04:14:38 PM
Seriously though, no Patriotic American says "tosh," or uses a phrase like "what are you on about."  This calls everything about you into question.  For all I know, you eat crumpets and not English muffins.  IT'S ALL A LIE
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 04:16:59 PM
I hide no secrets from you, APF, my brother.  If I were ever in a position of power, the first thing I would do would be to sell America out even further to foreign interests.  Particularly the sexy sexy Swissyland interests, although the Queen can buy back her property if the quality of her tea is as great as she says.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 04:23:46 PM
Just as long as I can be assured no poor or brown person gets a penny of my inheritance, I don't give a fuck who you sell the country out to.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 05:58:35 PM
Just as long as I can be assured no poor or brown person gets a penny of my inheritance, I don't give a fuck who you sell the country out to.

Calm down, APF.  I said I wasn't a libertarian anymore, I didn't say I had gone balls out crazy.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: warcock on November 06, 2007, 06:45:27 PM



I fail to see why a belief in logic prevents me from appreciating art.  On the contrary, I'd put good money on me being one of the best interpreters there is on this forum, fairly easily.  It's one of the things, the very few things, that I think I am superlative at.  I have never put meta-thought into precisely why I am great at it, asides from dumping a significant portion of my life into it, but if I had put the time into such thought, I bet I would come out again, proud of my logical capacities.

But to put it in short, warcock, I think you would have to be a fool to think that logic and deep appreciation of art are mutually exclusive things.  Of course, when has your foolishness ever been something not on the table for all to see, my CS-loving compadre?

And I haven't read Kant in almost a decade.  I would have to go to wiki i I even wanted the basics, so I won't put a show on of pretending here.

The ability to appreciate art and logic are indeed independent. But adding inefficient layers of complexity to a certain expression or idea is certainly irrational. I never supposed that the psyche of a human could not grasp and apply both concepts. I found it peculiar because you personafied yourself as being coldly rational, which i interpreted as a person solely occupied with surmounting confusion,doubt and striving to acheive the most elegant of optimizations. Obviously i was just poking at semantics. But i have to admit "coldly rational" does look like a pretty phrase. You had to take it personally though because i have a bigger penis, and you know it.

Besides the only time i've truly embarrassed myself here was in the "WHICH LITERATURE HAS THE BIGGEST DICK" thread. And i did acquiese my shortcomings. You did nothing but prove that i was ignorant, not wrong. Im pretty sure someone versed in french literature could have brought up a valid rebuttal. But isn't this an internet forum, you guys can sure write pretty and make others look like imbeciles. In any case, if any of us were truly brilliant, honestly we wouldnt have succumbed to concerning ourselves with instilling social darwinism on a totally useless virtual medium. We would be doing what we rock at. Shit i went on 10 different tangents, you make me hard whiteman.

Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: etiolate on November 06, 2007, 07:37:08 PM
I Just read a lot of words, but all I heard was dick dick dick dick dick.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 06, 2007, 08:15:32 PM

In any case, if any of us were truly brilliant, honestly we wouldnt have succumbed to concerning ourselves with instilling social darwinism on a totally useless virtual medium. We would be doing what we rock at. Shit i went on 10 different tangents, you make me hard whiteman.

what are you babbling about, you dirty sand dago?
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: warcock on November 06, 2007, 08:24:51 PM
i fail. :(
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: TVC15 on November 06, 2007, 09:14:50 PM
Sounds like some someone needs some cocks in his ass!
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 06, 2007, 09:16:05 PM
me first!
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: warcock on November 06, 2007, 09:38:53 PM
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Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: APF on November 06, 2007, 10:43:53 PM
I just want to keep my money!  Hands off my money!
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 06, 2007, 11:01:15 PM
I took that little thing of FoC's:
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=5&e=1)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 06, 2007, 11:08:44 PM
I took that little thing of FoC's:
(http://www.theadvocates.org/quiz-score/draw.php?p=5&e=1)



 :o :o

You are a statist? Get the fuck out of here!! This aint no authoritarian country gay boy.


Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 06, 2007, 11:09:44 PM
no. It's just your site is fucked up.

I don't think drugs should be legal and I don't wanna privatize social security and am for a national ID card.

All things the top tier democrats support.
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 06, 2007, 11:10:50 PM
no. It's just your site is fucked up.

I don't think drugs should be legal and I don't wanna privatize social security and am for a national ID card.

???
 :(

Want to drive on a road or use the sidewalk? Papers please

Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 06, 2007, 11:14:49 PM
Exactly, thats how it works in European countries with national id cards.  ::)
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on November 06, 2007, 11:15:38 PM
Exactly, thats how it works in European countries with national id cards.  ::)

This aint europe. We dont expect to show our papers like some kind of criminal.  :maf
Title: Re: I officially renounce ever calling myself anything resembling a libertarian
Post by: Gay Boy on November 06, 2007, 11:17:03 PM
we also have civil rights, tell that to your precious constitution and its 3/5th rule.