THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 07:00:58 PM

Title: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 07:00:58 PM: So I've read Slaughterhouse-5 and The Sound and the Fury what else should I try to get my hands on?
Should I attempt Ulysses?
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on January 08, 2008, 07:06:17 PM: Ulysses is like

"I've decide to try recreational drug use. I've heard good things about crack!"
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 08, 2008, 07:16:14 PM: Great Expectations.

My favorite book.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 08, 2008, 07:19:49 PM: 1984
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Powerslave on January 08, 2008, 07:21:54 PM: How's Brave New World?
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 08, 2008, 07:26:34 PM: I thought it was interesting, but the writing style is fairly archaic. I preferred 1984. I'm a sucker for dystopian stuff, so I still enjoyed it thoroughly.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 08, 2008, 07:27:54 PM: Quote from: Powerslave on January 08, 2008, 07:21:54 PM
How's Brave New World?

Ok, but 1984 is the way to go.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 07:31:31 PM: Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on January 08, 2008, 07:06:17 PM
Ulysses is like

"I've decide to try recreational drug use. I've heard good things about crack!"
:-\

I've already read 1984, Animal Farm etc. Though going by wiki Brave New World seems sufficiently different from 1984.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Robo on January 08, 2008, 07:33:31 PM: The Brothers Karamazov :bow
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 08, 2008, 07:35:22 PM: Quote from: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 07:31:31 PM
Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on January 08, 2008, 07:06:17 PM
Ulysses is like

"I've decide to try recreational drug use. I've heard good things about crack!"
:-\

I've already read 1984, Animal Farm etc. Though going by wiki Brave New World seems sufficiently different from 1984.

Yea, it's a society that could actually be construed as a utopia, unlike the world of 1984.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 07:39:10 PM: Quote from: RoboJ on January 08, 2008, 07:33:31 PM
The Brothers Karamazov :bow
Okay I'll look out for as it was mentioned in Slaughterhouse 5 as well :lol
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 08, 2008, 07:42:23 PM: Quote from: RoboJ on January 08, 2008, 07:33:31 PM
The Brothers Karamazov :bow

Yea, I need to read some more Dostoevsky. I've only read Notes From Underground and that was really good, if a bit fucking insane.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Robo on January 08, 2008, 07:43:01 PM: Quote from: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 07:39:10 PM
Quote from: RoboJ on January 08, 2008, 07:33:31 PM
The Brothers Karamazov :bow
Okay I'll look out for as it was mentioned in Slaughterhouse 5 as well :lol

That's actually what made me think of it. I believe the line is something like, "everything there is to know about life can be learned from The Brothers Karamazov".
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 08, 2008, 08:02:11 PM: Catcher in the Rye
Clockwork Orange
Cat's Cradle
Fahrenheit 451
On the Road
Bound for Glory
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 08:59:38 PM: I am reading Catcher in the Rye now. Though I feel silly reading books that I should of read in high school.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 08, 2008, 09:07:46 PM: well, I mean, I am in high school, so I wouldn't know how that feels.

Still though, Catcher in the Rye is freakin' incredible. It's definitely my favorite book I've read thus far in my life.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Robo on January 08, 2008, 09:09:36 PM: Fuck Catcher in the Rye. Read Less Than Zero.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 09:11:29 PM: Silly as in reading Harry Potter books when you 20+ in a public place but less so.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 08, 2008, 09:13:42 PM: Less Than Zero is good too. But Catcher in the Rye is better.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Ichirou on January 08, 2008, 09:13:55 PM: Catch-22
On The Road
The Castle of Otranto
The Female Quixote
Jude the Obscure
Lord of the Flies
Portnoy's Complaint
American Psycho

There ya go.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 08, 2008, 09:14:58 PM: What's the Female Quixote like?
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 09:19:10 PM: Quote from: Ichirou on January 08, 2008, 09:13:55 PM
Catch-22
On The Road
The Castle of Otranto
The Female Quixote
Jude the Obscure
Lord of the Flies
Portnoy's Complaint
American Psycho

There ya go.
Thanks theres some I haven't heard of.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Ichirou on January 08, 2008, 09:20:16 PM: It's an 18th century British comedy of manners influenced by Don Quixote. The protagonist is this girl named Arabella who grew up all by herself reading all these fantasy stories (she was home-schooled like PeeDee basically), so she has a very bizarre view of the world. Her suitor whatsisname tries to educate her on how the real world actually works.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: xnikki118x on January 08, 2008, 10:49:26 PM: I HATE Lord of the Flies.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TakingBackSunday on January 08, 2008, 10:50:50 PM: Yeah, I wasn't too hot for Lord of the Flies, either. All around pretty boring, other than the severed pig head part.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: BlueTsunami on January 08, 2008, 10:51:10 PM: Quote from: Father_Mike on January 08, 2008, 07:16:14 PM
Great Expectations.

My favorite book.

OMGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAWD

I love that book too! I read it in Middle School. We're both super saps
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 08, 2008, 10:55:14 PM: shhhhhh

if you say its a book for saps no one will read it.

Its a total mans man book Fresh. Read it!
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 08, 2008, 11:59:33 PM: Quote from: Father_Mike on January 08, 2008, 10:55:14 PM
shhhhhh

if you say its a book for saps no one will read it.

Its a total mans man book Fresh. Read it!
I'll be honest I thought it was written by Jane Austen, until I remembered I read the kid's version in primary school.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Madrun Badrun on January 09, 2008, 12:02:00 AM: Dickens fool.
Don't knock Jane either. I'm reading sense and sensibility right now and its damn good.

Kids versions destroy books.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 09, 2008, 12:14:12 AM: 18th Century Chick Lit lulz
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: xnikki118x on January 09, 2008, 04:46:17 AM: Quote from: BrandNew on January 08, 2008, 10:50:50 PM
Yeah, I wasn't too hot for Lord of the Flies, either. All around pretty boring, other than the severed pig head part.

That, and breaking the one kid's glasses.

And the "KILL THE PIG. CUT HER THROAT." chants.

The rest of it though? Awful.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TVC15 on January 09, 2008, 05:13:54 AM: Dostoevsky is more fun to read about than to actual read. The Brothers Karamazov and Notes from the Underground are really the only things I think are worth reading. Similar to how The Crying of Lot 49 is a good summation of Pynchon (and his shortest work), Notes from the Underground is a decent summation of Dostoevsky (also his shortest work).

He has a nasty habit of being able to use language in a very utilitarian-way, as in he is constructing complex sentences and passages, without actually saying much. And unlike the flowery english writers of the 19th century, his language is not particularly pretty or easy to read (that could be the translation, but everything I've read has indicated that he was just a clunky writer).

If you are reading for enjoyment, but you still want something that's fun to chew on, check out Gogol. His stuff is a lot shorter than Big D's, it's easier to read, and it is also pretty funny stuff. Gogol is also one of the OGs of the great Russian novelists of the 19th century. He be Big D's literary daddy. He seems more recognized outside of the US. I had never really heard of boyo until I was taking writing classes in college.

Recommended Gogol shit:

The Nose
Diary of a Madman
The Old World Landowners
Ivan Fedorovic Sponka and his Aunt
A Terrible Vengeance
The Tale of How Ivan Ivanovich Quarreled with Ivan Nikiforovich (pretty hilarious shizit)
St John's Eve
The Portrait
The Overcoat
and of course, possibly his masterpiece, the tragically (probably) incomplete Dead Souls

Gogol had two major phases: A pastoral and an urban phase, the former when he lived in the country, and the latter when he moved in the city. His pastoral stories (like The Tale of How Ivan Ivanovich Quarreled with Ivan Nikiforovich), while still mired in 19th century Russia (or the Ukraine, but the are the same to me, JIMMY AMERICA), tend to document the bizarre politics of small town living--the pretty arbitrary rivalries that pop up between personalities for little relatable reason and the like. Since his stories normally take the view of somebody outside the scenario looking in, we get to see these normal, everyday situations in their total absurdity. As someone that has lived in a small town, then moved to a place where I could objectively look backwards at country life, the things he describes are as true and relevant today as they ever were. My own family definitely had some of those absurd, pointless, rural rivalries. I think people just thrive on conflict, and if they live a generally easy life, they subconsciously try to kick up some dust.

His urban stories tend to document things like bureaucracy. Gogol held a pointless job as a government clerk for years and years, so he knew that topic very well. Sounds trite today, but in the 19th century, this was cutting edge. His urban stories also get into that famous russian ennui and pre-existential ponderings on the pointlessness of life in general. Again, this doesn't sound impressive, but he was writing this shit a half century before thinkers were thinking it. Indeed, he inspired a lot of those thinkers. Also, unlike Dostoevsky and other Russian heavies, Gogol tended to focus on humorous stories. Indeed, some of his darkest material is also his funniest. Sometimes we like to roll around in our filth and be mopey, but I think we can learn much more if we can laugh at the dilemmas we are learning about.

The big unifying factors between his two phases would be absurdity and pointlessness. Many of his stories, particularly later in life, feature flat-out absurd or surreal elements. Again, he was very far ahead of his time on this one. Some of it might seem a bit juvenile today, but that's only because he's been inspiring writers for a hundred and fifty plus years. He frequently uses these absurd elements to illustrate the pointlessness of modern life. Witness "The Overcoat" in which a Russian clerk loses his precious overcoat, encounters puzzlingly out-of-touch bureaucracy in trying to retrieve it, and eventually DIES from a fever (caught because he lost his coat). His ghost then wanders the city trying to find his overcoat. Thus a really petty detail in life leads to this poor Russian dude being eternally forced to wander the earth. The story is told as comedy, but if you change the tone a lil bit, it could stand up to Dostoevsky's most depressing.

Anyway, I kinda love Gogol. Like Borges, he came to me at a very important juncture in my life, and it is difficult to believe that had my timeline been off by a week, even a day, I never would have heard a passionate speech that encouraged me to check him out. One ten minute rant by a lit professor. I could have cut class that day, been sick, and I certainly have never heard him passionately spoken of since then. Those few minutes introduced me to one of the biggest influences in my life, and I am so glad for that. Worth all the money I wasted on school.

LAST EDIT: He's a joy to read, pretty easy, especially considering how turgid Russian lit could be. With that said, he packs his words with meaning. Many of his stories are highly interpretive, capable of being read with different themes and POVs in mind. This is, naturally, more true of his more nuanced, urban works, but it's apparent all over his library.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: CajoleJuice on January 09, 2008, 05:25:34 AM: Ignore this post. I'm a dum-dum.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Cormacaroni on January 09, 2008, 07:42:57 AM: Quote from: Ichirou on January 08, 2008, 09:13:55 PM
Catch-22
On The Road
The Castle of Otranto
The Female Quixote
Jude the Obscure
Lord of the Flies
Portnoy's Complaint
American Psycho

There ya go.

Ichirou, you had me at Catch 22.

But you need more Brits - Martin Amis has a number of modern classics (Time's Arrow, London Fields, Money), for the language alone James Joyce has to be read (Portrait of the Artist, Ulysses), and all the Kubrick fans should check out Anthony Burgess (A Clockwork Orange).
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Fresh Prince on January 11, 2008, 12:16:05 AM: I read Catcher in the Rye but really thought I was past that stage. Maybe if I read it in High School it would've been different.

I'm reading Portnoy's Complaint and had a look for Gogol but there's nothing in my library.
The Brothers Karamazov is like in 2 volumes; it must be the heroin of classic literature.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Robo on January 11, 2008, 01:28:38 AM: Awesome write-up, TVC. I'm gonna pick up some of those Gogol's this weekend.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TVC15 on January 11, 2008, 05:11:32 AM: Quote from: RoboJ on January 11, 2008, 01:28:38 AM
Awesome write-up, TVC. I'm gonna pick up some of those Gogol's this weekend.

Thanks for reading it. I get bummed when I type something up lengthy and it goes ignored. Especially when it is something I kinda care about.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Cormacaroni on January 11, 2008, 06:16:56 AM: Quote from: TVC 15 on January 11, 2008, 05:11:32 AM
Quote from: RoboJ on January 11, 2008, 01:28:38 AM
Awesome write-up, TVC. I'm gonna pick up some of those Gogol's this weekend.

Thanks for reading it. I get bummed when I type something up lengthy and it goes ignored. Especially when it is something I kinda care about.

I, also, read and enjoyed it. Whether it will lead to a monetary transaction at any point is as yet unclear. but it might!
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 11, 2008, 01:41:28 PM: Hemmingway's The Sun Also Rises and Jack Kerouac's On the Road are terrific.

I enjoyed these books when I was in my early 20's because they both feature main characters that are of a similar age and are looking for meaning in their lives. You will dig it.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on January 11, 2008, 03:00:12 PM: Just finished Flatland. A really cool short short book about a 2 dimensional world where a 3 dimensional sphere appears.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TVC15 on January 11, 2008, 04:11:35 PM: Quote from: ToxicAdam on January 11, 2008, 01:41:28 PM
Hemmingway's The Sun Also Rises and Jack Kerouac's On the Road are terrific.

I enjoyed these books when I was in my early 20's because they both feature main characters that are of a similar age and are looking for meaning in their lives. You will dig it.

On the Road should only be read before you hit 18, otherwise it just seems like a hopelessly naive book.

The Sun Also Rises is a barely-veiled macho-homo fantasy; the literary equivalent of Tom Of Finland. He was a hack with a few good short stories, and he couldn't even hack it well, with a shit unimpressive writing style that has basically shit up a half century of english writing.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: Eric P on January 11, 2008, 04:18:29 PM: Quote from: TVC 15 on January 11, 2008, 04:11:35 PM
The Sun Also Rises is a barely-veiled macho-homo fantasy; the literary equivalent of Tom Of Finland. He was a hack with a few good short stories, and he couldn't hack it, with a shit unimpressive writing style that has basically shit up a half century of english writing.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
omfg thank you. i hate hemmingway's novels
[close]
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: TVC15 on January 11, 2008, 04:33:55 PM: Quote from: Eric P on January 11, 2008, 04:18:29 PM
Quote from: TVC 15 on January 11, 2008, 04:11:35 PM
The Sun Also Rises is a barely-veiled macho-homo fantasy; the literary equivalent of Tom Of Finland. He was a hack with a few good short stories, and he couldn't hack it, with a shit unimpressive writing style that has basically shit up a half century of english writing.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
omfg thank you. i hate hemmingway's novels
[close]

Hemmingway is responsible for a half century's worth of shitty writers that have no writing talent thinking they could get away with a lack of wordsmithing by relying on subtext. It also has a side effect of makng things marginally more interpretive, but I think the popularity of the technique has more to do with talentless writers tat rely on a gimmc easy enough that anyone can pull it off.
Title: Re: Recommend me 'classic' novels to read
Post by: ToxicAdam on January 11, 2008, 05:16:23 PM: I can see your beef with On the Road. Kerouac's life story is more fascinating .. but the book itself is worth a read.

I'm surprised at the hatred for The Sun Also Rises. I think it's fantastic. i agree the rest of his stuff was not very good, but I thought he had one good book in him.