THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:35:34 PM

Title: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:35:34 PM
http://www.gamasutra.com/view/feature/3581/a_japanese_rpg_primer_the_.php?print=1

(this link shows them all on one page, rather than click click click)

1. valkyrie profile
2. final fantasy iv,vi & vii
3. xenogears
4. chrono trigger
5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
8. final fantasy viii
9. earthbound
10. grandia
11. final fantasy xii
12. dragon quest v
13. panzer dragoon saga
14. final fantasy x
15. skies of arcadia
16. chrono cross
17. phantasy star iv the end of the millenium
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii
20. final fantasy v
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: hyp on March 20, 2008, 07:36:25 PM
persona 3 > nocturne?   ::)

:piss gamasutra
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:37:46 PM
This is a list of twenty of the best JRPGs of all time -- well, an attempt, anyway. Each of these has been selected for excelling in some significant way, whether it's through compelling narrative devices or intriguing gameplay mechanics.

To avoid redundancies, only the best installment of a franchise will be chosen as a representative. The exception to this rule includes the Final Fantasy games, many of which are so vastly different from each other that they can barely be recognized as part of the same series, outside of the name.

It's worth bearing in mind that there are technically a few different subgenres of the Japanese RPG. These include action-RPGs like Ys, Kingdom Hearts, Secret of Mana, and (arguably) The Legend of Zelda.

There are also strategy RPGs, like Fire Emblem, Final Fantasy Tactics, Disgaea, Shining Force, and the like. There are also a handful of Japanese-developed online RPGs, like Phantasy Star Online and Final Fantasy XI. For the sake of focus, these types of games will be excluded from the list.

lawl
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: hyp on March 20, 2008, 07:39:00 PM
To avoid redundancies, only the best installment of a franchise will be chosen as a representative. The exception to this rule includes the Final Fantasy games, many of which are so vastly different from each other that they can barely be recognized as part of the same series, outside of the name.

:piss gamasutra

SMT NOCTURNE
SMT PERSONA 3

Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Vizzys on March 20, 2008, 07:45:03 PM
good games mostly
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 07:45:34 PM
It's not in order, if you read the article. The article doesn't even have a ranking.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Vizzys on March 20, 2008, 07:46:34 PM
TOO QUICK
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: hyp on March 20, 2008, 07:48:05 PM
It's not in order, if you read the article. The article doesn't even have a ranking.

they're still pretty stupid for not knowing that persona 3 is an SMT game.   :lol
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 07:49:40 PM
No 8-bit games?  JRPGs started in 1991 huh?  ???
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: demi on March 20, 2008, 07:49:57 PM
I like how he says Final Fantasy is so radically different but lists the three SNES games
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 07:56:56 PM
saga ii/final fantasy legend ii  8)
rpgs made after 1994  ???
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 07:57:46 PM
Quote
6. persona 3

Get the fuck out of here.

Quote
2. final fantasy iv,vi & vii
8. final fantasy viii
11. final fantasy xii
14. final fantasy x
20. final fantasy v

I don't know what pisses me off more. The fact that Dragon Quest made the list ONCE or the lack of Kingdom Hearts*

*Hey fuck you, if FF can have 7 games on the list they can throw out a KH shout-out.

Edit: WHERE THE FUCK IS DDS?

wait, you've played the dragon quests?
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Vizzys on March 20, 2008, 07:58:00 PM
saga ii/final fantasy legend ii  8)
rpgs made after 1994  ???

earthbound is on the list so the rest is really just filler
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 07:58:07 PM
saga ii/final fantasy legend ii  8)
rpgs made after 1994  ???

DQV came out before 1994.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 08:12:20 PM
word, my brother. dq7 deserves to be on the list. but honestly, it's not a crap list in the least. while i'd replace ff12 with something else, and I think Phantasy Star II should be on it, it's got pretty much all the essential jrpgs on there.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: tiesto on March 20, 2008, 08:17:41 PM
I'd say get rid of FFVIII, X, and XII and put on Lufia 2, Star Ocean 2, and the almighty Phantasy Star 2.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: MCD on March 20, 2008, 08:18:38 PM
excluding srpgs doesn't sound fare to me.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 08:21:14 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: MCD on March 20, 2008, 08:33:17 PM
there are lots more than that Joe.

chrono trigger for one.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 08:55:35 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 09:07:30 PM
I don't really believe in "aging".  If it's not still good now, it was never good to begin with.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: MCD on March 20, 2008, 09:09:26 PM
I don't really believe in "aging".  If it's not still good now, it was never good to begin with.
i dunno, ff7 looked pretty good back then and now? it's a joke.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 09:14:30 PM
What a horrible list.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 09:17:26 PM
10 years is an awfully short time for radical changes in aesthetics.  If it looks bad now it looked bad then.  (NB: "looks bad" !=== "is technically impressive").

By the way, I don't mind FF7's visuals (the CG execution is rough --- which was just as true when it came out --- but the world design is really cool); I have some other serious problems with the game, which were also every bit as evident when it was released.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:25:51 PM
What a horrible list.

it's only a horrible list if you have shit taste.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:26:58 PM
10 years is an awfully short time for radical changes in aesthetics.  If it looks bad now it looked bad then.  (NB: "looks bad" !=== "is technically impressive").

By the way, I don't mind FF7's visuals (the CG execution is rough --- which was just as true when it came out --- but the world design is really cool); I have some other serious problems with the game, which were also every bit as evident when it was released.

i recently played ff7 again and while i have problems myself, i think it does a lot of good things that we don't even see in modern jrpgs
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 09:28:09 PM

1. valkyrie profile
4. chrono trigger
8. final fantasy viii
10. grandia
12. dragon quest v
13. panzer dragoon saga
17. phantasy star iv the end of the millenium
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii
20. final fantasy v

These are the only games that belong on the list, and I'm a little bit iffy on FFVIII and Phantasy Star IV.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:30:19 PM
and why no smtn or p3
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:32:56 PM
i can understand why you wouldn't like p3

but not liking smtn is a sin against the jrpg gods and gives you the credibility of a tales of fan
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 09:33:32 PM
and why no smtn or p3

Because I haven't played P3 yet and I don't even own Nocturne (it's pretty hard to find).
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:34:25 PM
and why no ff4 or 6
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 09:35:46 PM
Because they have aged horribly.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: bork on March 20, 2008, 09:36:47 PM
I like how three fucking final fantasy games are in the number two spot.  It's not the top 20, it's the top 22.

HERE IS MY LIST OF ESSENTIAL JRPGS:

1.
2.
3.
4.
5.
6.
7.
8.
9.
10.
11. the one with that spiky-haired 15 year-old anime character that saves the world
12.
13.
14.
15.
16.
17.
18.
19.
20.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:37:25 PM
how exactly have they aged horribly while sakura taisen 1 and 2 haven't. that makes no sense ichi-san.

Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 09:38:50 PM
You played ST1 and 2, you know those games are still just as fun today as when they were released. :heartbeat

Whereas I can't play FFIV and VI without becoming bored by the primitive battle system, high encounter rates, boring dungeons, etc.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:42:06 PM
I played FFIV and VI after I got into rpgs. In fact, FFVI was the fourth jrpg I played and I still loved it, after all of the graphical splendor that FFVII and VIII had over it. I thought it had tons of variety and lots going for it gameplay wise. While the esper system kinda sucked since because required grinding and grinding is for lamers, I still look back on it nostalgically today. Same for FFIV, even though I played the game in 2001 (or was it 2000?) when it was put into FF: Chronicles.

As someone who experienced those games first hand after the whole 3d rpg revolution, I just don't comprehend how  Dragon Quest V, Final Fantasy V,  Lufia 2, and Chrono Trigger have aged well while FFVI and IV haven't.

Wait. You just said FFVI's dungeons are boring? I recently replayed a year back on gba, and was still amazed by the awesome dungeons. I liked how you could split your party up and crap, and the final dungeon is classic. Other jrpgs don't match up to FFVI's dungeons aside from DQ, SMTN, and DDS1+2.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 09:45:15 PM
Lufia 2's dungeons are fun to navigate because they're filled with puzzles and the monsters are all visible on screen so you can avoid them easily.  Final Fantasy V has the ingenious job system, so while the dungeons and the story may be the same cliched crap, the jobs keep you playing.  Chrono Trigger has a unique setting and handles it pretty well; the battle system is also solid and the game is short enough that it never wears out its welcome.

Meanwhile, FFIV and VI are completely generic RPGs.  Absolutely nothing special about them.

How many of FFVI's dungeons were just caves?  Too many.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:49:35 PM
FFIV has characters that all have unique abilities and I like that. It was a fun ass adventure too.

FFVI had characters that all specialized in specific things and all had different skills. I liked that shit. Plus, the adventure owned and FFVI is the only FF story bar VIII worth mentioning.

I guess I just have a hard on for rpgs where the characters have specific rolls or unique moves to one another.

I don't see how you could consider them generic, though. especially when you consider when they were released. You have to be a real jaded person to say that.

i think that VP2 deserves to be on this list. It kicks the original's ass.

Quote
How many of FFVI's dungeons were just caves?  Too many.

A lot of them are caves, but you've got to be kidding me: fanatics tower, doomtrain, floating continent, the empire, off the top of my head
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 09:58:29 PM
plus the caves had nice music!
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 09:59:18 PM
the caves of narshe's theme make my dick hard
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 10:00:01 PM
I thought it was an RPG, not a spelunking game.  I hated all the generic caves.  I dunno, man - I loved FFVI when it came out, but it has aged really badly.  Yet I can still play and enjoy FFV.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: bork on March 20, 2008, 10:04:01 PM
Samurai Spirits Bushidoretsuden did kick ass.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 10:16:51 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

Once you've played Lost Odyssey, there's no going back.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 10:18:16 PM
Final Fantasy VII was horrid.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 10:21:01 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

Once you've played Lost Odyssey, there's no going back.

I like LO a lot but

........
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: MoxManiac on March 20, 2008, 10:22:15 PM
Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

So was xenogears!
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 10:23:27 PM
Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

So was xenogears!

I enjoyed Xenogears for what it was, and I admit it was not a great game (probably not even a good one), but FFVII was just so much worse.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 20, 2008, 10:23:54 PM
Final Fantasy VII was horrid.

So was xenogears!

I enjoyed Xenogears for what it was, and I admit it was not a great game (probably not even a good one), but FFVII was just so much worse.

You are officially on batshit pills.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 20, 2008, 10:37:31 PM
Give me your list of 20 essential JRPGs, then!
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Joe Molotov on March 20, 2008, 10:37:47 PM
Of that list, here's the list of the games that are still actually playable:

5. shadow hearts covenant
6. persona 3
7. shin megami tensei nocturne
18. breath of fire:dragon quarter
19. suikoden ii

Everything else, AVOID if you want to keep your nostalgia and sanity intact.

er

you must be kidding me joe

I played DQ5 for the first time last year and it has aged very well and all the ff's on the list have ages very very well.

Once you've played Lost Odyssey, there's no going back.

I like LO a lot but

........

I was just kidding about LO. It just seems to me that a lot of older (SNES/PSX) era RPGs are really by-the-numbers, clichéd fantasy. Granted, a lot of newer ones are too, but at least they have nicer graphics and generally a more user friendly interface.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on March 20, 2008, 11:58:29 PM
Quote
spelunking game

(http://www.lauppert.ws/screen1/advent.png)
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: The Sceneman on March 21, 2008, 01:58:17 AM
no Baten Kaitos: fail
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Ichirou on March 21, 2008, 02:20:23 AM
I like Grandia better than Grandia 2.  Bigger areas, more emphasis on exploration, less angst.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 21, 2008, 09:56:00 AM
Give me your list of 20 essential JRPGs, then!

in no order and only including strictly jrpgs and jarpgs. No srpgs or anything.

1. valkyrie profile 1
2. valkyrie profile 2
3. final fantasy series (IV-X)
4. chrono trigger
5. lufia 2
6. Dragon Quest series (I, II, V, VII, VIII, because those are the ones i've played in depth)
7. Shin Megami Tensei: Nocturne
8. Persona 3
9. Grandia
10. Phantasy Star II
11. Phantasy Star IV
12. Breath of Fire: Dragon Quarter
13. suikoden series (1, 2, 3, 5)
14. vagrant story
15. panzer dragoon saga
16. skies of arcadia
17. shadowrun
18. star ocean 2
19. brave fencer musashi
20. digital devil saga
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: MCD on March 21, 2008, 09:59:05 AM
only breath of fire 5? no love for the old ones?

and shadowrun? isn't that western?
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Himu on March 21, 2008, 10:00:39 AM
only breath of fire 5? no love for the old ones?

and shadowrun? isn't that western?

Breath of Fire series is fucking SHIT until 5.

Okay, replace Shadowrun with Parasite Eve.
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: MCD on March 21, 2008, 10:01:28 AM
 :( :( :(
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Eric P on March 21, 2008, 10:03:39 AM
Quote
spelunking game

(http://www.lauppert.ws/screen1/advent.png)


i played that

there was a company named spinnaker which did a semiregular release of educational software / games back in the apple 2 days which were pretty awesome.

i don't know why, but this screen shot reminds me of those days

the end
Title: Re: The TWENTY ESSENTIAL JRPGs by Gamasutra
Post by: Mupepe on March 21, 2008, 10:47:00 AM
To avoid redundancies, only the best installment of a franchise will be chosen as a representative. The exception to this rule includes the Final Fantasy games, many of which are so vastly different from each other that they can barely be recognized as part of the same series, outside of the name.
So what they really mean is "the exceptiong being final fantasy because fagboys would have a fit"

ff viii should be above vii until it gets a new translation and doesn't suck.