THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: The Fake Shemp on November 03, 2006, 02:50:42 PM

Title: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 03, 2006, 02:50:42 PM
 :'(
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: whiteACID on November 03, 2006, 02:53:23 PM
God, that's sad.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Boogie on November 03, 2006, 02:54:15 PM
 :'(

why?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 03, 2006, 02:55:28 PM
Says he's busy and needs to stop posting, but looks forward to seeing us all again in January.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Boogie on November 03, 2006, 03:03:05 PM
Says he's busy and needs to stop posting, but looks forward to seeing us all again in January.

Is this reliant on his own self-discipline, or did he ask for a ban until then?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 03, 2006, 03:09:52 PM
He wanted a ban.

He basically stated that he'd rather just be polite instead of posting penis photos.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: whiteACID on November 03, 2006, 03:29:04 PM
He wanted a ban.

He basically stated that he'd rather just be polite instead of posting penis photos.
So is he the anonymous person that sent me this message?
Quote
Sometimes i just gotta take pictures damnit i cant help it. I just put them all over the internet along with home movies. So sad i just thought i should share and ask the question.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Bacon on November 03, 2006, 03:40:04 PM
He wanted a ban.

He basically stated that he'd rather just be polite instead of posting penis photos.

I don't think we should have to suffer just because he wants to be polite.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 03:44:57 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 03, 2006, 04:36:03 PM
that's 100% ZomBz, redwood.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 03, 2006, 04:37:44 PM
I hope people blow smoke into his face until January, the Freedom-hating bastard.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Polari on November 03, 2006, 06:38:05 PM
No John Lennon's ugly face until January, yay.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 06:40:32 PM
Athiests piss me off
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Cheebs on November 03, 2006, 06:43:37 PM
Athiests piss me off
I rather be a evangelical. Look at how their awesome leader is doing.








gay sex with a prostitute  :shh
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 06:51:23 PM
Dawkins is probably a pedophile which is even worse
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Cheebs on November 03, 2006, 06:53:27 PM
Duh, all republicans are.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 06:56:21 PM
He's a republican - well I mean conservative since he's from England - wtf?

IRONY
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mupepe on November 03, 2006, 06:58:52 PM
would anyone miss me if I had to leave until January?   :-\
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Boogie on November 03, 2006, 07:00:18 PM
We'd miss Charlotte.  You, notsomuch.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 03, 2006, 07:22:33 PM
He's a republican - well I mean conservative since he's from England - wtf?

IRONY

Dawkins is one of my idols you fundie fuck.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:23:11 PM
He's a republican - well I mean conservative since he's from England - wtf?

IRONY

Dawkins is one of my idols you fundie fuck.

No Christmas for you!
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: cloudwalking on November 03, 2006, 07:24:57 PM
He's a republican - well I mean conservative since he's from England - wtf?

IRONY

Dawkins is one of my idols you fundie fuck.

Mine too! Phoenix if you hate atheists you hate me :o

Don't get on my bad side :gun :punch
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:31:26 PM
I don't hate athiests, I just don't think they should have any rights. If there's a bus full of atheists, I say pull em over. >:(
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Vizzys on November 03, 2006, 07:32:59 PM
Lame, he should have just blacklisted the site.

PD is backpedaling! Faggle.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mupepe on November 03, 2006, 07:35:52 PM
I don't hate athiests, I just don't think they should have any rights. If there's a bus full of atheists, I say pull em over. >:(
Pretty much, I agree.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 07:37:51 PM
I don't hate athiests, I just don't think they should have any rights. If there's a bus full of atheists, I say pull em over. >:(

WTF? Wow.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 07:38:47 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/fallingsilo/901_hi_boys.jpg)
I don't hate athiests, I just don't think they should have any rights. If there's a bus full of atheists, I say pull em over. >:(
Fixed.

Fucked up fundie fucking bible fucker.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:40:07 PM
 :lol







 :punch
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Vizzys on November 03, 2006, 07:40:32 PM
Lol athiests having no rights. Thats crazy religo talk
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 07:41:11 PM
LOLZ I AM ATHEIST THROW ME UNDER A BUS, IT IZ JEEZUS' WAY!!!!
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:42:52 PM
LOLZ I AM ATHEIST THROW ME UNDER A BUS, IT IZ JEEZUS' WAY!!!!

Not under the bus, off it and into a maximum security prison. After enough water boarding you'll believe in my god
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Vizzys on November 03, 2006, 07:43:35 PM
I'd love to hear your reasoning PD.

GO AHEAD. MAKE MY DAY.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mupepe on November 03, 2006, 07:43:49 PM
LOLZ I AM ATHEIST THROW ME UNDER A BUS, IT IZ JEEZUS' WAY!!!!

Not under the bus, off it and into a maximum security prison. After enough water boarding you'll believe in my god
Is Cher your God?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 07:44:14 PM
No, Raven Riley is. :-*
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:46:49 PM
No, Raven Riley is. :-*

 :-* :-* :-* :-*

(http://img222.imageshack.us/img222/7977/1210387322lsl0.jpg)
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 07:47:49 PM
I'd love to hear your reasoning PD.
GO AHEAD. MAKE MY DAY.
They argue with him and insult Olive Garden.  That is everything to him.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:49:32 PM
I'd love to hear your reasoning PD.

GO AHEAD. MAKE MY DAY.

Evolution is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard. There's just as much faith required to believe evolution as their is to believe creation imho.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 07:51:10 PM

Evolution is perhaps the stupidest thing I've ever heard. There's just as much faith required to believe evolution as their is to believe creation imho.

Yeah, besides the fact that one is a child's fairytale and the other's based on (reasonable) scientific evidence.

BUT OH, I FORGET -- YOU PROBABLY DIDN'T LEARN IT THAT WAY IN SUNDAY SCHOOL. NEVERMIND. ::)
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Cheebs on November 03, 2006, 07:54:37 PM
PD was home schooled remember.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 07:57:13 PM
PD was home schooled remember.

By who, the official church of HATERZ BEWARE? ???
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Vizzys on November 03, 2006, 07:58:13 PM
Evolution has been proven I thought...? In birds at least.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Cheebs on November 03, 2006, 07:58:44 PM
PD was home schooled remember.

By who, the official church of HATERZ BEWARE? ???
His family seems to be somewhat morally conservative so I assume so.  :lol
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 07:59:02 PM
PD was home schooled remember.

But I hated it, especially the cirriculum. So I'm not a fan of their biology shit. I have basic gripes with evolution, and what pisses me off is its most hardcore believers. That doesn't count you guys, because truthfully none of you are credible. I'm talking about hardcore scientists and researchers, truly smart individuals (fuck philosophy).

Viz: evolution has never been "proven"
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 07:59:56 PM
But "God" has? STFU already, you sicken me. :lol
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:00:52 PM
But "God" has? STFU already, you sicken me. :lol

God/creation is not a science. It's not taught to people so they can become "smart" and move on with education
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 08:01:48 PM
PD was homeschooled?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:02:17 PM
PD was homeschooled?

From 3rd to 9th grade.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Vizzys on November 03, 2006, 08:04:38 PM
Still it has scientific backing, it seems like a better thing to teach our children then something based off of possibly fictional writing. If people want have a religion in their own families thats cool. I really wish people didn't take it so seriously though. Nothing is just black and white.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:09:54 PM
Still it has scientific backing, it seems like a better thing to teach our children then something based off of possibly fictional writing. If people want have a religion in their own families thats cool. I really wish people didn't take it so seriously though. Nothing is just black and white.

I'm not advocating that creation or ID be taught in school. Teaching evolution is fine with me, as long as it's looked at OBJECTIVELY. If you're going to teach evolution, I want to see basic things gone over. Like the lack of transitional forms (in a vast amount) in the fossil record, or the law of entropy, or  spontaneous generation, etc. I'd like to see both sides presented; "both sides" does not mean evolution vs creation. I want to see the more factual areas of evolution presented alongside the criticism the theory has received.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 08:11:46 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/fallingsilo/901_hi_boys.jpg)
From 3rd to 9th grade.
um...um...

I'll just let you monologue you blind, unaccountable, sanctimonious prick.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:14:04 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/fallingsilo/901_hi_boys.jpg)
From 3rd to 9th grade.
um...um...

I'll just let you monologue you blind, unaccountable, sanctimonious prick.

After that I went throught 5 years of evolution training in HS and college, so quit yer bitching. I've finished all my biology credits, and I'm 19. So meh
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 08:15:15 PM
(http://i62.photobucket.com/albums/h120/fallingsilo/901_hi_boys.jpg)
After that I went throught 5 years of evolution training in HS and college, so quit yer bitching. I've finished all my biology credits, and I'm 19. So meh
Doesn't matter if you ignore it.

Or even if you take a shit on those who believe it.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:21:50 PM
*yawn*

That's my biggest problem with evolutionists. They feel they're superior to those who don't believe in evolution, and they act like they're intellectuals. Granted many fundies who teach/preach against evolution are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows, but evolutionists have no ground to act like their theory is fallable when after decades they still can't explain basic issues like the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record.

*yawn*

The Zelda impressions are up so I'm going to read that.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 03, 2006, 08:25:27 PM
*yawn*

That's my biggest problem with evolutionists. They feel they're superior to those who don't believe in evolution, and they act like they're intellectuals. Granted many fundies who teach/preach against evolution are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows, but evolutionists have no ground to act like their theory is fallable when after decades they still can't explain basic issues like the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record.

*yawn*

The Zelda impressions are up so I'm going to read that.

You are correct, the theory that has evidence that is incomplete should be completely disregarded because magic people in the sky that require no evidence are much more rational. 
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 08:27:46 PM
*yawn*
That's my biggest problem with evolutionists. They feel they're superior to those who don't believe in evolution, and they act like they're intellectuals. Granted many fundies who teach/preach against evolution are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows, but evolutionists have no ground to act like their theory is fallable when after decades they still can't explain basic issues like the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record.
*yawn*
The Zelda impressions are up so I'm going to read that.
So because you're smart enough to know that there's proof that creationism is a lie isn't a good enough argument?  Are you really that simple-minded?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 08:30:16 PM

You are correct, the theory that has evidence that is incomplete should be completely disregarded because magic people in the sky that require no evidence are much more rational. 

WWJD?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:31:35 PM
*yawn*

That's my biggest problem with evolutionists. They feel they're superior to those who don't believe in evolution, and they act like they're intellectuals. Granted many fundies who teach/preach against evolution are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows, but evolutionists have no ground to act like their theory is fallable when after decades they still can't explain basic issues like the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record.

*yawn*

The Zelda impressions are up so I'm going to read that.

You are correct, the theory that has evidence that is incomplete should be completely disregarded because magic people in the sky that require no evidence are much more rational. 

Never said it should be disregarded; certain aspects of evolution and natural selection in general (which is not evolution per se) are fine with me.

My belief in God is based on faith, as well as my observations of nature and research into alternative views such as evolution. I would be much more content with evolutionists if they would get off their high horse and admit that the theory has many flaws, and requires a level of faith as well. But the "f" word is dirty to some people.

Quote from: am nintendo
So because you're smart enough to know that there's proof that creationism is a lie isn't a good enough argument?  Are you really that simple-minded?

You don't have to put words in my mouth.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 08:33:53 PM
So because the theory has its flaws, you'd rather believe that some lightning-rod throwing bearded hippy is up in the sky making babies and killing evildoers?

You're a fucking moron.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Christopher on November 03, 2006, 08:34:46 PM
I believe there is a god
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 08:36:02 PM
You are correct, the theory that has evidence that is incomplete should be completely disregarded because magic people in the sky that require no evidence are much more rational. 
Never said it should be disregarded; certain aspects of evolution and natural selection in general (which is not evolution per se) are fine with me.
My belief in God is based on faith, as well as my observations of nature and research into alternative views such as evolution. I would be much more content with evolutionists if they would get off their high horse and admit that the theory has many flaws, and requires a level of faith as well. But the "f" word is dirty to some people.
You don't have to put words in my mouth.
I don't care what comes out of your mouth.  It's the same thing over and over again.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 03, 2006, 08:36:16 PM
*yawn*

That's my biggest problem with evolutionists. They feel they're superior to those who don't believe in evolution, and they act like they're intellectuals. Granted many fundies who teach/preach against evolution are fucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellows, but evolutionists have no ground to act like their theory is fallable when after decades they still can't explain basic issues like the lack of transitional forms in the fossil record.

*yawn*

The Zelda impressions are up so I'm going to read that.

You are correct, the theory that has evidence that is incomplete should be completely disregarded because magic people in the sky that require no evidence are much more rational. 

Never said it should be disregarded; certain aspects of evolution and natural selection in general (which is not evolution per se) are fine with me.

My belief in God is based on faith, as well as my observations of nature and research into alternative views such as evolution. I would be much more content with evolutionists if they would get off their high horse and admit that the theory has many flaws, and requires a level of faith as well. But the "f" word is dirty to some people.

Um, they generally do admit there are things missing.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 08:36:35 PM
I believe there is a god

Do you also believe that evolution is a myth created by evildoing assholes riding on "high horses", as PD puts it? ::)
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Christopher on November 03, 2006, 08:38:35 PM
Actually I believe there is a god, and that he created the world and you have the choice to do what you want in your life, if your a good person you'll go to heaven, if your bad you go to hell.  I don't believe in only one religion as it, hell I don't thank any religion is right.

I just believe there is a god, and the way you act determines where your spirit goes.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 08:40:36 PM
Personally I believe we're all chilling on one plane, neither Heaven nor Hell, living the best day of our lives every day.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
LIKE BILL MURRAY'S GROUNDHOG DAY TIMES 1,000.
[close]
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:44:31 PM
You are correct, the theory that has evidence that is incomplete should be completely disregarded because magic people in the sky that require no evidence are much more rational. 
Never said it should be disregarded; certain aspects of evolution and natural selection in general (which is not evolution per se) are fine with me.
My belief in God is based on faith, as well as my observations of nature and research into alternative views such as evolution. I would be much more content with evolutionists if they would get off their high horse and admit that the theory has many flaws, and requires a level of faith as well. But the "f" word is dirty to some people.
You don't have to put words in my mouth.
I don't care what comes out of your mouth.  It's the same thing over and over again.

And you refuse or are inable to refute it, so why do you care?

Evolution is a theory. It's not fact, it's not in stone, it's not worth betting one's life on. In many ways it's a modern day glorified retelling of spontaneous generation IMHO. In school we learn about  spontaneous generation at a pretty early time (7th-8th grade), we laugh it off and then forget it. But in 9th grade the basic principle of it comes up again, but this time in evolution.

I'm not ashamed to admit that I believe in a higher being at all. I would have nothing against evolutionists if they weren't constantly parading around and calling me stupid, be it in the classroom or in publications, when they don't have a slam dunk case for their own belief.

In the end, it's about faith. I have faith in a higher being, and many evolutionists have a faith that something "magically" (to use Shake's terminology) came from nothing
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 03, 2006, 08:47:30 PM
They believe there are holes in the theory, whereas most bible beating GODSONS will dutifully create any wild story to explain something they can't reason logically. Which one of these is wiser, good sir?

Blind faith or admitting your not 100%, even with scientific evidence at hand...
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 08:50:20 PM
And you refuse or are inable to refute it, so why do you care?
Evolution is a theory. It's not fact, it's not in stone, it's not worth betting one's life on. In many ways it's a modern day glorified retelling of spontaneous generation IMHO. In school we learn about  spontaneous generation at a pretty early time (7th-8th grade), we laugh it off and then forget it. But in 9th grade the basic principle of it comes up again, but this time in evolution.
I'm not ashamed to admit that I believe in a higher being at all. I would have nothing against evolutionists if they weren't constantly parading around and calling me stupid, be it in the classroom or in publications, when they don't have a slam dunk case for their own belief.
In the end, it's about faith. I have faith in a higher being, and many evolutionists have a faith that something "magically" (to use Shake's terminology) came from nothing
And you believe god thinks your dumb enough to have to bet your life.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 08:54:03 PM
And you refuse or are inable to refute it, so why do you care?
Evolution is a theory. It's not fact, it's not in stone, it's not worth betting one's life on. In many ways it's a modern day glorified retelling of spontaneous generation IMHO. In school we learn about  spontaneous generation at a pretty early time (7th-8th grade), we laugh it off and then forget it. But in 9th grade the basic principle of it comes up again, but this time in evolution.
I'm not ashamed to admit that I believe in a higher being at all. I would have nothing against evolutionists if they weren't constantly parading around and calling me stupid, be it in the classroom or in publications, when they don't have a slam dunk case for their own belief.
In the end, it's about faith. I have faith in a higher being, and many evolutionists have a faith that something "magically" (to use Shake's terminology) came from nothing
And you believe god thinks your dumb enough to have to bet your life.
:lol

You're killing me. Like I said, when you can leave some of the hyperbole at home (a little won't hurt nobody) and dispute my statements, go ahead. Until that time... :lol
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: brawndolicious on November 03, 2006, 09:10:48 PM
:lol
You're killing me. Like I said, when you can leave some of the hyperbole at home (a little won't hurt nobody) and dispute my statements, go ahead. Until that time... :lol
There's not hyperbole, that's literally how you're interpreting it.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mandark on November 03, 2006, 09:34:49 PM
Spontaneous generation doesn't really have anything to do with evolution.  One is about life arising from inanimate matter; the other is about gradual change and speciation through heredity and selection pressures.

Evolution is a theory.  Same as the germ theory of disease, or tectonic plate theory, etc.  You can bet your life on it.

I never got the transitional fossil argument.  There are lots of transitional fossils, showing the evolution of horses, whales, bony fish, etc.  Shoot, look at archaeopteryx.

Where are you getting your information on this?  You say you're not coming at it from a religious perspective, and I'll take you at your word.  But it's not like you can find, say, a single university biology department that would make the claims you're making.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 10:00:06 PM
Spontaneous generation doesn't really have anything to do with evolution.  One is about life arising from inanimate matter; the other is about gradual change and speciation through heredity and selection pressures.

Evolution is a theory.  Same as the germ theory of disease, or tectonic plate theory, etc.  You can bet your life on it.

I never got the transitional fossil argument.  There are lots of transitional fossils, showing the evolution of horses, whales, bony fish, etc.  Shoot, look at archaeopteryx.

Where are you getting your information on this?  You say you're not coming at it from a religious perspective, and I'll take you at your word.  But it's not like you can find, say, a single university biology department that would make the claims you're making.

In general, spontaneous generation deals with the idea that life can be produced by non living things. In the past, many believed rotten meat produced/generated flies; today we know rotten meat attracts flies. This is something that is accepted by all biologists, yet to me evolution draws comparisons to spontaneous generation. With evolution we're told that the first living cells appeared due to some random, by chance combination of non-living materials. In other words, non-living materials produced living things. To make matters worse, we are never told where these non-living materials came from in the first place. Thus we come to the idea of something coming from nothing. How is this? And better yet, if true would it be possible to create something from nothing in a lab? To this day scientists have not been able to achieve that.


There aren't many slam dunk transitional fossils, if any. I wouldn't consider the archaeopteryx a true transitional, middle link. You don't go from dinosaur to bird in one step. There should be millions or fossils detailing the change in body that would be needed to make such a vast change. Dragons perhaps (IE dinoaurs with wings)? I have yet to see any clear evidence of this.


With respect to my information, I've gotten it from various places. Some do indeed come from religious-tinted sources. But lots of it is basic sense, especially with the fossil record. As I said, we should be able to see millions of these missing links considering the vast changes that would be needed to go from dinosaur to bird, for instance.

Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mandark on November 03, 2006, 11:21:51 PM
Abiogenesis is not evolution.  Very different things.  Simple concept.

Arguing from intuition will get you in trouble.  There should be "millions" of transitional fossils?  How many total fossilized dinosaur skeletons have been found?  Seriously, where are you getting your information?  It's doubtful you've done an independent study of the fossil record.

Scientists find something like this, (http://www.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/tiktaalik_makes_another_gap.php) and instead of filling a gap, it just creates two: the immediate ancestor, and the immediate descendant.

What's the actual reasoning behind your objections to evolution?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 03, 2006, 11:44:50 PM
Abiogenesis is not evolution.  Very different things.  Simple concept.

Arguing from intuition will get you in trouble.  There should be "millions" of transitional fossils?  How many total fossilized dinosaur skeletons have been found?  Seriously, where are you getting your information?  It's doubtful you've done an independent study of the fossil record.

Scientists find something like this, (http://www.scienceblogs.com/pharyngula/2006/04/tiktaalik_makes_another_gap.php) and instead of filling a gap, it just creates two: the immediate ancestor, and the immediate descendant.

What's the actual reasoning behind your objections to evolution?

Well please explain how life came from nothing at all, which is what evolution theorizes.

Perhaps "millions" is far too much of a hyperbolic statement. But I would definitely stand by the assertion that we should see far more of these transitional beings.

In terms of my "information", as I said much of it comes from being forced to learn evolution for 4+ years. I'm curious though; why are you interested in my sources? So you can look at them for a minute and dismiss them, or out of curiosity? The vast majority of books against evolution, like the Darwin's Black Box for instance, have been ridiculed by the scientific community, which comes as no suprise.

My reasoning behind my objection to evolution? I believe the world was created by a higher being, and I simply don't see how the entire universe could be created by chance, out of nothing. To believe such a thing requires as much faith as I have that there is a god imo, but I cannot help but feel that creation is a more reasonable explanation. Evolution is founded on a flawed idea in the first place, as I have explained. To make things worse, there is little evidence of transitional forms. These facts don't give me much confidence in the theory, at all
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 12:11:10 AM
how is a magical indescribable entity a "more reasonable explanation," disallowing for your interminable stupidity and ignorance on this subject as a factor

you, with your utter lack of grounding in science, have not demonstrated any flaws in evolution in any of your arguments; you've just parroted reguarly debunked myths about evolutionary theory and refused to read up on them

i call SHENANIGANS
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 12:14:09 AM
how is a magical indescribable entity a "more reasonable explanation," disallowing for your interminable stupidity and ignorance on this subject as a factor

you, with your utter lack of grounding in science, have not demonstrated any flaws in evolution in any of your arguments; you've just parroted reguarly debunked myths about evolutionary theory and refused to read up on them

i call SHENANIGANS

Way to not address the issues. Why can't you explain the fossil record problem, or the biggest elephant in the room: how nothing becomes something (life)?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 04, 2006, 12:17:01 AM
how is a magical indescribable entity a "more reasonable explanation," disallowing for your interminable stupidity and ignorance on this subject as a factor

you, with your utter lack of grounding in science, have not demonstrated any flaws in evolution in any of your arguments; you've just parroted reguarly debunked myths about evolutionary theory and refused to read up on them

i call SHENANIGANS

Way to not address the issues. Why can't you explain the fossil record problem, or the biggest elephant in the room: how nothing becomes something (life)?

Dude, just answer the first part, which you've been dancing around:

how is a magical indescribable entity a "more reasonable explanation?"
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 12:21:10 AM
a) what's this "nothing became life" strawman. we're a stage in a process of matter changing and linking along a causal chain of known and theorized physical, chemical, and "biological" behaviors. we aren't special.

b) what's so fucking special about life, anyhow? we're an arrangement of molecules, just like an asteroid or a nebula or a blob of protoplasm. physical and chemical laws demonstrably determine the interactions of our components. the notion of "complexity" is a limitation of the human condition; the universe doesn't distinguish between simple and complex, and it sure as fuck doesn't act all amazed and then ascribe a "higher power" to the bits what blow its dumb monkey mind.

you're just refactoring the argument from awe into some really disingenuous permutations. the only "evidence" YOU have brought to the table is that you're really fucking amazed by being in this metaphoric "alive" condition; that you magically link the chemical condition of consciousness to some imaginary being that remains conveniently uncircumscribable; and that you really don't have the education or reasoning skills to assert that the larger scientific community is an evil fraud. all you've done is prove that some biology teacher pissed you off so much that you want to believe the opposite of what he told you, which makes you a small child emotionally -- probably thanks to sloppy and uninformed home schooling. congrats -- you've convinced me to send my daughter to a public school. thanks!
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: cloudwalking on November 04, 2006, 12:22:31 AM
Not to jump in here, but I'm not sure where you're getting the "life from nothing" argument:

Quote
   1. Plausible pre-biotic conditions result in the creation of certain basic small molecules (monomers) of life, such as amino acids. This was demonstrated in the Miller-Urey experiment by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey in 1953.
   2. Phospholipids (of an appropriate length) can spontaneously form lipid bilayers, a basic component of the cell membrane.
   3. The polymerization of nucleotides into random RNA molecules might have resulted in self-replicating ribozymes (RNA world hypothesis).
   4. Selection pressures for catalytic efficiency and diversity result in ribozymes which catalyse peptidyl transfer (hence formation of small proteins), since oligopeptides complex with RNA to form better catalysts. Thus the first ribosome is born, and protein synthesis becomes more prevalent.
   5. Proteins outcompete ribozymes in catalytic ability, and therefore become the dominant biopolymer. Nucleic acids are restricted to predominantly genomic use.

Quote
Basic organic monomers (such as amino acids) that form the polymeric building blocks of modern life can be formed spontaneously. Simple organic molecules are of course a long way from a fully functional self-replicating life form. But in an environment with no pre-existing life these molecules may have accumulated and provided a rich environment for chemical evolution ("soup theory").
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 12:25:08 AM
he's just really really amazed by consciousness and wants to believe it's so special as a chemical condition such that it MUST suggest a vast magical designer and preferably the christian one that hates fegs
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: cloudwalking on November 04, 2006, 12:28:40 AM
I don't care what people believe, but I find it funny how some people are like "But life can't come from nothing so evolution is wrong!" when, ummm... what exactly is intelligent design, then?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
God snapped his fingers and poof! LIFE APPEARED
[close]
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 12:31:59 AM
it's a cliche, but who made god appear


unless

spoiler (click to show/hide)
god is undead! :o :o :o
[close]
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 04, 2006, 12:44:51 AM
I miss malek already...

 :'(
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 04, 2006, 12:48:34 AM
I miss malek already...

 :'(


I don't.  The puke wants to strip property owners of their rights.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 12:56:12 AM
Not to jump in here, but I'm not sure where you're getting the "life from nothing" argument:

Quote
   1. Plausible pre-biotic conditions result in the creation of certain basic small molecules (monomers) of life, such as amino acids. This was demonstrated in the Miller-Urey experiment by Stanley L. Miller and Harold C. Urey in 1953.
   2. Phospholipids (of an appropriate length) can spontaneously form lipid bilayers, a basic component of the cell membrane.
   3. The polymerization of nucleotides into random RNA molecules might have resulted in self-replicating ribozymes (RNA world hypothesis).
   4. Selection pressures for catalytic efficiency and diversity result in ribozymes which catalyse peptidyl transfer (hence formation of small proteins), since oligopeptides complex with RNA to form better catalysts. Thus the first ribosome is born, and protein synthesis becomes more prevalent.
   5. Proteins outcompete ribozymes in catalytic ability, and therefore become the dominant biopolymer. Nucleic acids are restricted to predominantly genomic use.

Quote
Basic organic monomers (such as amino acids) that form the polymeric building blocks of modern life can be formed spontaneously. Simple organic molecules are of course a long way from a fully functional self-replicating life form. But in an environment with no pre-existing life these molecules may have accumulated and provided a rich environment for chemical evolution ("soup theory").

Interesting that you bring up Miller-Urey; the interpetation of their research is still debated, and it does not provide solid evidence that more complex organisms (IE a mammal for instance) could be formed. Life was not created or simulated.

To make matters worse, the inclusion of methane ammonia in the recreation of earth's atomosphere by Miller makes little sense. Are you familiar with Abelson's hypothesis?

But I digress; could someone please explain how an empty, barron environment "magically" created life? Where did this potential come from?
Quote from: Drinky
he's just really really amazed by consciousness and wants to believe it's so special as a chemical condition such that it MUST suggest a vast magical designer and preferably the christian one that hates fegs

Yes, there is complexity. Our bodily system contains many precise components put together to create us. The lack of one component could fuck up the entire process. Evolution would require the gradual addition of various aspects of our body (if we are to continue using humans as an example). Isn't it quite obvious how complex the body is, just based on its makeup? This sort of ties into the idea of transitional forms though; why can't we find clear cut examples of a dinosaur turning into a bird, for instance? To me, that would be the ultamite accomplishment in proving evolution. With humans and fossils, there's always debate on whether it's an actual human, or some ape-man ancestor. Yet a god damn winged dinosaur is rather hard to spin

Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Polari on November 04, 2006, 01:02:42 AM
I think we need to stop posting in this thread in case he drops in and gets the impression we care.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 01:11:19 AM
I think we need to stop posting in this thread in case he drops in and gets the impression we care.

I respect and fear Malek
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Polari on November 04, 2006, 01:12:36 AM
I think we need to stop posting in this thread in case he drops in and gets the impression we care.

I respect and fear Malek

You would.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 01:15:24 AM
Quote
Yes, there is complexity. Our bodily system contains many precise components put together to create us. The lack of one component could fuck up the entire process. Evolution would require the gradual addition of various aspects of our body (if we are to continue using humans as an example). Isn't it quite obvious how complex the body is, just based on its makeup? This sort of ties into the idea of transitional forms though; why can't we find clear cut examples of a dinosaur turning into a bird, for instance? To me, that would be the ultamite accomplishment in proving evolution. With humans and fossils, there's always debate on whether it's an actual human, or some ape-man ancestor. Yet a god damn winged dinosaur is rather hard to spin

You assume design and act like it's a top-down process, where the plan was to CREATE a human. We're a fuckin' accident. Chemicals were meandering along and interacting in our tiny little neck of space and one the stages happened to be us. It could very easily have been something NOT self-conscious; it was entirely bottom-up. Again, you assume we're SPECIAL -- that this chemical configuration we interpret as "consciousness" was INTENTIONAL. It wasn't. We're just another chemical permutation, and in the span of existence, we're a tiny tiny tiny little blip. We're not even anomalous in the sense that an anomaly merits note.

LIFE IS NOT SPECIAL SAVE TO THE LIVING. GET THAT INTO YOUR HEAD.

We don't have fossils for even 1% of the life forms that existed previous to the past 10,000 years, much less those that existed millions of years ago. It is so geologically unlikely that we'd find enough intermediary forms to demonstrate the incremental branching evolution of even one current species of animal as to be a completely disingenuous request. We have enough to reasssure those folks who ARE grounded in legitimate science that macroevolution is as strong a theory as to be fundamentally useful, and that theory continues to be refined and supported daily. Inductive reasoning more than suffices for raw evolutionary theorizing.

Now quit spewing canned answers from bogus religious propaganda, get over your hatred of your evil biology professor who challenged your marginal education, and FUCKING LEARN SOMETHING.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 01:20:16 AM
Where did the chemicals come from?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 01:20:55 AM
actually, the more i think about it, pd, the lengths you'll go to position yourself opposite those that have pissed you off and threatened your worldview is kinda impressive

i mean, you'll memorize entire bogus arguments for intelligent design just because some biology teacher challenged you

you'll defend indefensible republican policies just because randi rhodes and her forum posters struck you funny

:o
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 01:22:56 AM
phoenixdark, i can see where this road is leading, so: why do we have to have an answer for everything? you don't seem to need an answer for where your big ol' creator came from. how about you wait and let the scientific process do its thang
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 01:24:56 AM
If Cylons believe in God then so do I.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 01:30:07 AM
phoenixdark, i can see where this road is leading, so: why do we have to have an answer for everything? you don't seem to need an answer for where your big ol' creator came from. how about you wait and let the scientific process do its thang

I'm still waiting actually.

Quote from: Drinky
We have enough to reasssure those folks who ARE grounded in legitimate science that macroevolution is as strong a theory as to be fundamentally useful, and that theory continues to be refined and supported daily.

Well where are the clear cut transitional forms? I keep asking, and no one can explain this. I'll cede that science has discovered some rather...interesting fossils recently, but where are these amazing beings? Considering just about everything on this planet evolved from some other creature (according to evolution), we should be able to find some of these long forgotten creatures.

Quote from: Drinky
actually, the more i think about it, pd, the lengths you'll go to position yourself opposite those that have pissed you off and threatened your worldview is kinda impressive

i mean, you'll memorize entire bogus arguments for intelligent design just because some biology teacher challenged you

you'll defend indefensible republican policies just because randi rhodes and her forum posters struck you funny

Now THAT is interesting. I've never thought of it that way lol. I wouldn't say bio teachers have pissed me off (I rarely talk in class), but I have said previously that many evolutionists annoy me. The same can be said of Randy Rhode's ilk.

I'm going to think that over because it's very interesting. I never play devil's advocate, but I definitely see how you'd make such a hypothesis
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mandark on November 04, 2006, 03:25:31 AM
Well please explain how life came from nothing at all, which is what evolution theorizes.
Easy.  EVOLUTION THEORIZES NO SUCH THING.  There.  Simple.

You answered a question by saying you don't think "the universe" was created by random whatever.  Well, evolution doesn't need to explain the universe, or even a single star system, or the continents, or the atmosphere.  Evolution is a scientific theory about specific phenomena, not a challenge to your personal belief system.

You still haven't given anything close to specific criteria for what constitutes a "transitional" fossil, other than a fossil that 1) Has Wings, and 2) Is A Dinosaur.  I really have no idea what you mean by the term, and you're sort of giving the impression that you define it as "whatever hasn't been discovered."  The tiktaalik is "interesting?"  C'mon.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: TVC15 on November 04, 2006, 03:33:29 AM
phoenixdark, i can see where this road is leading, so: why do we have to have an answer for everything? you don't seem to need an answer for where your big ol' creator came from. how about you wait and let the scientific process do its thang

I'm still waiting actually.


You're still waiting?  Guess what?  Science takes time!  You remind me of those anti-stem cell Republicans that say researching is a waste since it will be ten years before we discover anything useful.  Science takes time!  You don't get the answers now, that's how the game is played.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 04:48:28 AM
phoenixdark, i can see where this road is leading, so: why do we have to have an answer for everything? you don't seem to need an answer for where your big ol' creator came from. how about you wait and let the scientific process do its thang

I'm still waiting actually.


You're still waiting?  Guess what?  Science takes time!  You remind me of those anti-stem cell Republicans that say researching is a waste since it will be ten years before we discover anything useful.  Science takes time!  You don't get the answers now, that's how the game is played.

Stem cells are a waste of time




















































That was a joke; I'm not that stupid
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 04:50:31 AM
Well please explain how life came from nothing at all, which is what evolution theorizes.
Easy.  EVOLUTION THEORIZES NO SUCH THING.  There.  Simple.

You answered a question by saying you don't think "the universe" was created by random whatever.  Well, evolution doesn't need to explain the universe, or even a single star system, or the continents, or the atmosphere.  Evolution is a scientific theory about specific phenomena, not a challenge to your personal belief system.

You still haven't given anything close to specific criteria for what constitutes a "transitional" fossil, other than a fossil that 1) Has Wings, and 2) Is A Dinosaur.  I really have no idea what you mean by the term, and you're sort of giving the impression that you define it as "whatever hasn't been discovered."  The tiktaalik is "interesting?"  C'mon.

Then how did life come about?

We're going in circles here  :lol
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 04, 2006, 02:26:35 PM
Damn, this thread. :(
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 02:28:31 PM
PD refuses to accept that science is a far better tool and has accumulated far more evidence for presenting a viable explanation to the origin of life than his book of magical fairy tales. :(

EDIT: actually, Mandark's right -- we're just letting him derail evolution discussion into "origin of life" discussions. evolution explains humans, not life.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Mandark on November 04, 2006, 02:29:20 PM
We're not going in circles.  You're being horribly dense.

Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with "how life came about."  How hard is that to understand?

When someone tells you mountains were formed by drifting tectonic plates, do you respond with "Yeah, well where did the Earth come from??
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 04, 2006, 02:31:22 PM
WHAT CAME FIRST, THE CHICKEN OR THE EGG?





GOD.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 02:32:45 PM
i came first :-*
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 02:33:08 PM
Again - I'd like to point out the following evidence to Mandark, who is just being incredibly irrational.  Cylons, which are sentient beings of vast intelligence, believe in God.  And they're machines!  Also, Captain Kirk met God in Star Trek V.  I am pretty sure that about wraps this up.

...

And to finish the joke, Drinky always comes first.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 02:33:56 PM
We're not going in circles.  You're being horribly dense.

Evolution has absolutely nothing to do with "how life came about."  How hard is that to understand?

When someone tells you mountains were formed by drifting tectonic plates, do you respond with "Yeah, well where did the Earth come from??

Why yes I do







































 :-*

What theory do you feel is most likely to explain the origin of life?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 04, 2006, 02:34:12 PM
I'm pretty sure the whole BSG thing is played out. Now its just redundant. :-\
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 02:35:18 PM
I am pretty sure the whole Shake thing is played out.  Now you're just redundant.  You see what I did there?

This makes sense, people.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 04, 2006, 02:36:39 PM
huh
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 02:38:00 PM
I will pee in a cup and tell you it's lemonade.  You'll drink it.  Where is your science now, heathen?
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 02:38:10 PM
Shake is cooler than BSG
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 02:38:25 PM
Nothing is cooler than BSG.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 04, 2006, 02:38:44 PM
tonight...you.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 04, 2006, 02:38:49 PM
Sam Raimi is
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on November 04, 2006, 02:39:31 PM
Shake is cooler than BSG

Respek.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 04, 2006, 03:58:04 PM
I forgot about BSG last night.  :-\
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 03:59:18 PM
I forgot about BSG last night.  :-\

Adama was badass - he doesn't fuck around.
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 04, 2006, 04:05:16 PM
I forgot about BSG last night.  :-\

Adama was badass - he doesn't fuck around.
I always catch the repeat on Mondays at 11 if I miss it.  ;)
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 04:08:45 PM
Totally worth it, just to see Adama put a beatdown on a certain somebody.  Well, not really a beatdown, but it's pretty physical!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Starbuck got fucked up!
[close]
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: CajoleJuice on November 04, 2006, 04:12:56 PM
OH GODDAMN IT I WENT TO QUOTE YOUR POST AND I SAW WHAT THE SPOILER WAS FUCK THIS SHIT FUCK
Title: Re: malek has left us until January...
Post by: The Fake Shemp on November 04, 2006, 04:27:41 PM
If it makes you feel better - it's a small fraction of the episode!