THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: MrAngryFace on November 05, 2006, 03:08:16 PM
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Im currently in Barheim Passage and the battle system has caused me more grief than good.
Lets take the way battles occur first. Like an MMORPG you dont enter a self contained fight, you have to well, jigger for a position as you fight to keep out of the aggro range of other mobs. See, this is a problem. Unlike MMORPGs I dont have skills at my disposal to contain the situation. Mobs will just bolt out of attack range and my best hope is to chase them, but they tend to run towards more enemies who will pick one party member and murder them unless I use my always dwindling supply of potions.
Furthermore the AI Partners I have, tend to let their gambit take over, or take last orders so literally that they will run into the aggro range of other mobs, or just, well, die. Also switching orders as the mobs switch targets every other turn is a micromanagement nightmare.
It's like they took the mechanics of an FF title and threw it in an MMORPG environment and expected something to mesh, when clearly nothing really meshed. The FF system at its core is not suitable for an MMORPG environment. Throwing in some basic If Than statements for AI that will nine times out of 10 get you into trouble doesnt fix it either.
Don't get me wrong, I will try to keep playing. I love the story and so far the cast is my favorite FF cast ever, but god damnit if the dungeons arent a constant exercise in frustration.
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The license board sucks ass
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That too, the fact I was required to pay 20 dollars to SEE WHAT I WANT TO GET is hilarious.
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DDS2 did the system a whole lot better. FFXII license board am DDS2 wannabe lol
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I actually let a character die cause I was tired of having to support him haha
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AHahah I've never done that before ever
I stopped playing FFXII and went back to Devil Summoner omg awesome
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This dungeon is testing my patience. All anything drops are eye drops which are honestly pretty useless most of the time cept the Flan. So im out of potions, far away from the vendor, who knows where the fuk I am. Out of mana. AWESOME!
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Dude that sucks.
FFXII needs a goddamn teleport ability. The world is way too huge and you often find yourself far from any civilization. I wish you could use a magic spell and telelport to any place you've been before at any time like in DQVIII.
Also, the game shouldn't have had game overs. The game is seriously way too huge and random. Sometimes you'll encounter some random monster who is like 30 levels above you and you get killed it one hit. Well uh oh! You just lost 2 hours of play time.
My God.
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Well if theyre gonna be all WOW MMORPG they should adopt some of the things that made MMORPGs playable.
I predict FF12 backlash once people wake up. Its clearly an 8.0 RPG in my book, and honestly I think VP2 is the better game.
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Agreed on all fronts, except about VP2 because I haven't played it yet. :-[
People won't wake up. It's Final fucking Fantasy. Overrated confirmed total, and this is coming from someone who LIKES the game.
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Oh man, I just beat this boss I almost lost becuase of LUCK wtf.
I just barely happened to survive the 80 gajillion entire party damage spells. If I had lost I think I woulda traded the game in haha.
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Yeah Barheim passage sucks (tight quarters bad) , I remember getting my ass kicked lots there. The license board is fine if you conserve your points, because the best way to get money is by selling your loot anyway. I really have had no problems.
I also beat that fire boss via luck, it gets easier...
I'm not sure wtf himuro is talking about. You can teleport anywhere you have been via teleport crystals. You use these crystals at certain save crystals. Maybe you have to get to a certain point in the game first, I dont remember.
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License board would be fine IF it told you all the squares. I hate GUESSING unless ive bought the strat guide or read some lame FAQ on gamefaqs.
I think Himuro is talking about MMORPG porting to town. FFXII insists on placing us in MMORPG mechanics from the mid 90s when MMORPGs sucked. You cant effectively make dungeon runs when backtracking so much. Its just lame time wasting crap.
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I really love the battle system so far and find it makes dungeon exploration really fun. My annoyance with the game has been the license board, a couple scenarios (running from bounty hunters and the last leg of a certain rescue operation). Respawn times could be longer, too, but so far it hasn't been much of a problem. It's the first Final Fantasy title I've liked in a *long* time. VIII was the last one I finished and I didn't actually like that game which means FFT and that's not even a real FF game.
I haven't been this happy with Square Enix since the early Playstation years.
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i'm sure it's entirely subjective, but how can you like NOT being in control of your party?
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I am officially posting without reading.
I haven't opened it yet, but someone was telling me that the battle system reminded him of Vagrant Story a lot. Now I'm not sure if I want to open it.
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no, it really reminds me of MMORPG combat, especially FF11. i can't recall the person who told me that the combat was nothing like it, but he is so very wrong.
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I never played FFXI, because apparently you need to be fluent in Japanese to enjoy it.
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The only similarities between FF11's battle system is that fact its real time and you have to target your enemies.
...Thats about it.
I own both games.
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Im glad you do, but the battle system in FF12 still kinda suxxxxx
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Well I can't force you to like it.
BUT I CAN TRY!
LIKE THE BATTLE SYSTEM
I tryed.
Seriously though, that part in the sewers sucked assssss, especially that firehorse thing. it does get easier, and you can teleport at any teleport crystal back to any town.
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fire horse was easy, I think ashe had unlimited potions or something, the queen mimic made me ANGRY
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I control my party when I need to but most battles in RPGs can be played with a fairly simple set of commands and this allows me to do that. I play the party leader and decide who to attack and everyone's only attack gambit is set to attack the party leader's target. Everything else is healing / negative status removal orders. Special cases (offensive magic use, etc.) are handled by me.
I think leading parties and eventually making raid level decisions in WoW might have a big influence on why I like this game.
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I hate raids, which is why I dont like this battle system I guess lol.
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Well, FFXII is more like running a really stupid 5 man in WoW (with no aggro management) than raiding. I meant I don't like micromanaging anymore.
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The mimic queen was way easy... how did it give you trouble?
And yeah most of the time when a fourth person joins your party they have unlimited potions. If they do, take it as a hint to level up... because not wasting your own potions is awesome.
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Mimic Queen was hard cause she started doing MANY spells near the end that were totalling my party.
Firemane was a big fat joke with Ashe tossing potions at EVERYONE
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I was fine with the battle system unti lthey full introduced gambits. That's when it went to shit because when fighting the Horse Boss I tried beating it without Gambits and it was IMPOSSIBLE. Things get way too hectic and annoying to even consider not using gambits. I used gambits the next time and all I had to do was stand there.
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Battle system is boring, it is the same as all the other games, I am not seeing how this is different.
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Battle system is boring, it is the same as all the other games, I am not seeing how this is different.
???
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Fighting without gambits is impossible because it requires that at every turns end for every person you tell them what to do. That would be fine if the enemy didn't make split second decisions and the battle didnt move in "real time".
As it is Gambit system IS required because wtf, who has time for that shit. Trouble is the Gambit system will more often than not get in the way whenever you try to focus on getting a party member to do something that isnt labeled as a priority in their gambit. So say you have someone cast fire, but right after that is done, you have to hop back to them real quick or they're off doing their gambit. I think you lose some turn time when that happens too.
In which case you turn off their gambit but then after they do a turn they just stand there stupid. It just feels like im fighting the Gambit system....at least until I am able to purchase the bulk of the good gambit options.
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wait
wait
WAIT
YOU HAFTA PURCHASE AI OPTIONS?????
W
T
F
MY GOD
WORST GAME DESIGN EVER
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Haha like I said, FFX Battle System + FFXII Story/Characters/Setting = OMG BEST FF EVER
But instead I have a game I feel compelled to play even tho I fucking hate the gameplay.
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Yeah there is a shop dedicated to it, but they cost ~50 a piece! I dunno, I bought them all. Most of them was crap like "HP < 50%", "HP < 40%"
I mean, I can never tell when to cast that spell! It's such a hard decision to make.
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YOU BUY GAMbiTS
YOU BUY LICENSES
YOU BUY ARMOR
YOU BUY WEAPON
YOU BUY MAGIC
OMG OMG OMG GRIND GRIND GRIND RITE? lolz
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Yeah basically. Who the fuck thought of this bull crap.
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lol most of the gambits are useless at those stores.
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So it's pretty confusing for noobs?
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well its not confusing, its just feels like im fighting the game more than the enemies.
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well its not confusing, its just feels like im fighting the game more than the enemies.
I actually find that idea kind of fun after beating N3. You say the story is good though?
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I dont mean it the way you seem to think I mean it.
Pretend you were invited to play baseball, but when you showed up everyone was playing football, but they called it baseball and insisted you still try and play it like baseball.
The story, characters, and setting are excellent. If this had FFX's battle system it would have been the best RPG of the year and best FF ever.
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I dont mean it the way you seem to think I mean it.
Pretend you were invited to play baseball, but when you showed up everyone was playing football, but they called it baseball and insisted you still try and play it like baseball.
The story, characters, and setting are excellent. If this had FFX's battle system it would have been the best RPG of the year and best FF ever.
So it's just fucking tedious? I just saw a video review and it says that there's basically a lot less strategy and more melee attacks and healing gambits. I'll probably wait for a used or edtior's choice copy.
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I would, I just bought it cause im an idiot with money.
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I'd never buy a game for full price unless it was a multiplayer game that everybody I knew was getting.
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ASLFAJDF aughhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh
I LOST 2 HOURS OF PLAY TIME GOD
Note to Square Enix: The next time you attempt to make an mmorpg like world in a single player game, please give the game assets that make mmorpgs and dungeon crawlers not annoying. When designing a dungeon, particularly dungeon crawlers, you do not space out save points by an hour and a half. Furthermore, Game Overs in a mmorpg like world where it can take 30 minutes to an hour to reach civilization to save and/or buy items, is ludicrous. A save anywhere feature would make the game easy as hell, however, when you have single player games in large worlds, as Dragon Quest VIII expertly showed, it is wise to allow players to continue their game, but with penalties for dying. It is a heck of a lot better than starting over 2 hours of play time.
References: Shin Megami Tensei series, Dragon Quest VIII, and mmorpgs (including your own).
Thank you for your time.
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Hahaha, the GUEST characters always have like 40,000 hi potions. Im abusing that now to level. The guest got mad and lectured me cause i keep entering and leaving the dungeon.
They just sit and heal you all the live long day long as they're in your party. I just set Fran to steal and run around and hit stuff while she steals loot to sell and stupid Guest character keeps throwin hi potions at me.
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Poor himuro, :lol
Thats never happened to me and I'm 42 hours in. If my party gets fucked up, I use my reserve members and run like hell away. Usually its one of those elementals, those things are fucking beasts.
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im making 7000k a run lol, stupid Guest character. KEEP TOSSIN THOSE HI POTIONS
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THEY WILL NEVER RUN OUT, I tell you its genius.
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lol, the guest should just say 'lets grind here a while, i have a lot of hi potions'
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Where are you at right now?
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just the mines, just power leveling and buying everything in town while this moron is with me.
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Ah where I leveled up/got money was the cliffs across from the mines, I got a 77 chain from killing those walking birds. I ran from the forest past those black chocobos and back for them to respawn.
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lol, well im not far enough in to wander yet, the story is forcing me along but I wont look a gift horse in the mouth
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Well the more you kill of a certain enemy in a row, the higher the chance they will drop rare items. Not sure if you knew that but its pretty good, they drop like katanas I sold for like 2000 each.
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i ran into a Silence Trap and dont have any Echo Herbs and there arent any Save Crystals to heal me, great dungeon!
blah
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I've put 35 hours into FFXII so far with gambits as follows for every character except my lead:
1. Party Leader Target: Attack
2. Ally <70% HP: Cure
Sometimes I'll enable "Enemy > 1000 HP: Steal" on one of my support characters when I'm grinding.
I find MP usage to be very inefficient with gambits enabled, and sometimes it's useful to break an action in favor of another. With bosses in particular I do a LOT of manual commands, and if I went with gambits I don't think I would've had as much success as I have. Maybe it's because I haven't bothered to really explore the system much, I dunno, but so far there isn't a need to.
I've made my peace with the license board. With all the grinding I've done I have a fuckton of unspent LP. I can go and unlock skills and equipment licenses for items that aren't even available yet. On my main characters I'm always several tiers ahead of the best available equipment. Other than the guesswork, it's not that awful (but it's far from a good system). The variation it allows is kind of okay, I suppose.
My biggest beef is with the dungeons. So far they're just really long and boring save one or two boss encounters, and this one I just completed could've been designed better from a gameplay standpoint; there were two completely unexpected boss encounters (no save point/crystal nearby, no architecture signifying a boss' dwelling) that almost cost me an hour or so of gameplay. Both fights I went in hurting, but I guess that made for more of a challenge. I wasn't satisfied at all when I beat them, though... it was more like, "Finally, time to get the fuck outta here."
Yeah. I don't even know if the game's an 8 for me. The only truly redeeming quality here is the presentation (absolutely terrific in every way), whereas the things that matter either flawed or average. I don't understand the 9.5's and 10s being thrown around. Right now I'd rate the game a 7.5 going by what has thus far been an engaging story and the fantastic world design. Without that, it's easily a 6 or lower.
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I pretty much agree with what MAF is saying, monsters in the game aren't really hard what makes them hard is how fucking clunky the interface and menus are I mean... when you are fighting against the game systems instead of making things easier there is something really wrong there.
the dungeons are really bland, LB is the crappiest system ever whoever thought that was a good idea was fucking drunk (and yeah DDS2 did this earlier and better imo). I just wasn't having fun with it. think I got till ozmone plains and just blah decided to stop playing.
the thread at gaf is a HUGE wankfest for the game dont see what so brilliant about it aside from graphics.
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Omg it's Error! Posting side by side by brethren once again! :-*
Yeah. I don't even know if the game's an 8 for me. The only truly redeeming quality here is the presentation (absolutely terrific in every way), whereas the things that matter either flawed or average. I don't understand the 9.5's and 10s being thrown around. Right now I'd rate the game a 7.5 going by what has thus far been an engaging story and the fantastic world design. Without that, it's easily a 6 or lower.
qft
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Error: Well I think its a credit to the story/character/and settings that I still play this game despite hating its battle system.
I still think VP2 is RPG of the year and sorely overlooked as it stands in the shadow of FFXII. I would have given VP2 8.5/9 and FFXII an 7.5/8
Production values shouldnt make it impossible for lower scores to occur.
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I'll rent it tomorow and let you guys know what I think, I hate JRPGs, I played FFX and was disgusted by how boring it was and turned the TV off. Hopefully FFXII is pretty cool.
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FFX's story was bleh, but its battle system was one of the best FF battle systems. I wish it was in FFXII
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Evolution of FFX and FFX-2 battle systems please
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I hated FFX-2 Dress up system lol. FFX was the ultimate.
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combat is really weak yeah but I hated the LB even more.
I mean, if the game wants to limit my progress so that I don't get uber powerful in the beginning I understand that but please don't do it in distinguished mentally-challenged ways.
say I found killer sword in a dungeon but I need to buy the license square to use it, not only that but I probably don't know where the fuck that square is so I have to start guessing and using the game very vague hints to see where that square is also once I reached the square it'll probably ask for like 95lp but I only have 10lp... so in the end I say fuck it and just ignore the weapon.
right now RPG of the year for me is a toss up between Baten Kaitos 2 or Valkyrie Profile 2, with devil summoner come in after those two. I haven't played ToTA so I dunno about it, I want to play it tho.
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rpg of the year is BOFV. Because I played it this year and it ROCKED
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BOFV is good, but play VP2 and recognize its greatness.
I think mine ranks as:
Valkyrie Profile 2
Disgaea 2
FFXII
I've only put a few hours into .HACK//GU and Tales of the Abyss. I have Devil Summoner but havent started it yet. Shame shame.
(http://img525.imageshack.us/img525/1163/goodpkrs9.jpg)
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Can anyone say how good .hack//GU is?
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I like it. It's like FF12 -- real-time battles but quite a bit more animu and lacking in License Board or Gambit bullshit, and the OMG MYSTERIOUS MMORPG bent is both hilariously cheesy and oddly compelling. Graphics are great.
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Zoh my god their is nothing like a good player-killing, oh my god a player-killer killer!!!!!
:lol
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I like it. It's like FF12 -- real-time battles but quite a bit more animu and lacking in License Board or Gambit bullshit, and the OMG MYSTERIOUS MMORPG bent is both hilariously cheesy and oddly compelling. Graphics are great.
I played the first .hack of the quadruple series and thought it was shit, so I was wondering.
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New one is better, but it doesnt FEEL like a traditional RPG at all. In fact it feels a little creepy playing it ;)
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well, the new version is a lot more polished and has a vastly improved camera and battle system. your call!
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Niiiice.
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WTF is with Fran's victory pose?
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Gambits seem to be perfect for the lazy gamer.
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Haha, if you give in. I CONTINUE TO FIGHT THE GAMBIT
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Bad thing about this is that whenever I ask someone about FFXII they never give me a straight answer.
Phoenix: So is FFXII good? I've heard the story is amazing
Some dude: Well yeah I suppose...
Pheonix: What about the gambits? Is that cool, or would it be too complicated for an RPG newb such as myself? I liked FFIV
Some dude: Well...I kinda...well, hm. I'm going to go play it now I think
wtf? IS IT GOOD OR NOTS? Some dudes seem to be denial or something
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haha
Well its a good story. Good characters. Good Setting.
Its unfortunately a mediocre GAME, and actually looking back, there really hasnt been a REALLY OMG awesome FF on the PS2. They're just good. Most of the best RPGs are from other companies.
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ofcourse they're in denial. Final Fantasy sucks ass now and they can't admit it
lol
WTF is with Fran's victory pose?
DOES SHE SHAKE HER ASS? :hyper
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No she just holds a stupid arrow in her mouth with her hands at her side and the camera spins around her. What is that supposed to be?
I dunno if FF "sucks ass". Its playable, I mean I am here playing it. Its just not an A- or B+
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Well, that was an exaggeration. But for a game people have been waiting a solid 5 years for, it's pretty disappointing. It's okay but the game could be oh so much better. In fact, if they fixed a few things it'd probably be my ideal rpg.
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Well they shouldnt have been waiting 5 years ;)
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Final Fantasy fans in denial hm
I'm quite the outsider to Final Fantasy, and RPGs in general. Like I said, I absolutely loved FFIV; I might pick up FFV tomorrow. One of my friends is a Final Fantasy freak, but she doesn't like the 3D ones because, according to her, they put presentation ahead of a good story, which is the most important part of an RPG. The media seems to think differently, as all the 9-9.5 reviews show.
Looking at videos of the 3D Final Fantasies I kind of see her point about the snazzy CGI movies and such. But then again, I noticed FFIV had MANY segments that would be considered cutscenes today. It seems to me like SE always wanted to make huge ass snazzy movies but couldn't due to tech limitations. Like the opening of FFIV is pretty awesome, but I can't help but think it would look more awesome in CGI lol. The media seems to think differently
Oh well. To me, Gambits look pretty...ugly. It just looks cluttered and seems to take you out the game even more than a 20min cutscene would. But I'm an RPG newb so meh
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Well they shouldnt have been waiting 5 years ;)
Yeah, I used to be the biggest FF nut. Thanks to the lack of a real FF I moved onto different rpgs and genres. Thanks Square!
As for your friend PD. Personally FFV sucks dick. FFIV, FFVI-X are all good games. Nostalgia is a bitch. They don't put presentation over story at all. The story is as important as it was in FFVI. Like you said, FFIV and FFVI were some of the first cinematic rpgs. It has almost always been like that for FF. It's just that with 3d they could convey this more.
Ofcourse, the 2d fegs probably don't realize this.
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I really liked 8, and I still found stuff I didnt like about it lol.
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When I first played VIII I loved it at first, but then as I progressed it was :-\
I then hated it for years on end. I gave it another chance, and realized I was too hard on the game and put more effort into enjoying it. In the end, it became my favorite FF. Gaming preferences change over time, it's amazing.
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I gave it no second chances and it still sucks.
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Earthbound is horrible.
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FUCK YOU.
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Horrible.
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lol earthbound. FF12 isn't that hard so far lol. I dunno why people keep cryin bout bosses.
Well ok, the MIMIC QUEEN was hard.
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Nah I really don't understand the logic behind that. :gloomy
:/
FF8 sucked.
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lol earthbound. FF12 isn't that hard so far lol. I dunno why people keep cryin bout bosses.
Well ok, the MIMIC QUEEN was hard.
The green dragon was hard, because of the status effect from his "mega" attack. Wait till you get to the five little fruit/vegetable royalty people, fucking impossible. You will see what I mean.
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Vaan is making me question my sexuality :-\
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Why is MAF continually using the phrase "lol" here? I've never seen this behavior before >:(