they cling to...religion
Clearly, upper class liberals working in high status professions are not going to lose their jobs to third world illegal immigrants. It's so easy for them to look down on working class whites and call them bitter.Apart from the illegal immigrant bit it's already happened to IT and soon to move on (if it hasn't already) to accounting, engineering and other professions. Go to some tech sites e.g. Slashdot and there are plenty of bitter IT people there.
Also, what if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white people for their problems? You think Jesse Jackson wouldn't have a field day with that?LOL
Obama said Small town america is dumb because they hold on tow dumb value like guns and religion.
What would you say if Mccain said that Black people are bitter and that they cling to old fashion values like fried chicken and basketballs. It's absurd.
Why not he basically scoffed at the idea that anyone who practices religion and likes guns (both specifically protected in the constitution) must be a small town ignorant.
But the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get black people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to basketball or rap music or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
He didn't "basically" say anything of the sort. He merely stated the obvious: many rural working class people have been ignored by the government so long that they grow estranged from economic politics, and instead focus on issues that actually have meaning for them, issues that are there for them - guns, god, etc. And then he said it's not shocking that some become bitter and feel slighted with respect to issues like immigration.
FoC, Obama's statements could very well apply to black people in rural towns as well. This issue is more about the rural and urban divide than race.
Hey PeeDee would this make you mad if Mccain said this.QuoteBut the truth is, is that, our challenge is to get black people persuaded that we can make progress when there’s not evidence of that in their daily lives. You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to basketball or rap music or antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment as a way to explain their frustrations.
The fact that you are seriously add rap music and basketball to this is laughableNo it's worse that he said religion and guns, two things specifically protected in the constitution. Yea those old country folk should support me cause I can lead them to the promise land. Dont worry about those old values you cherish.
He tried to say that their beliefs in gun rights and religion were based more on trying to find an outlet for their economic situation than some more rational basis.
You go into some of these urban parts of Pennsylvania, and like a lot of urban parts of the Midwest, the jobs have been gone now for 25 years and nothing’s replaced them. And they fell through the Clinton administration, and the Bush administration, and each successive administration has said that somehow these communities are gonna regenerate and they have not. And it’s not surprising then they get bitter, they cling to...antipathy to people who aren’t like them or anti-white sentiment
A lack of economic opportunity among black men, and the shame and frustration that came from not being able to provide for one's family contributed to the erosion of black families — a problem that welfare policies for many years may have worsened. And the lack of basic services in so many urban black neighborhoods — parks for kids to play in, police walking the beat, regular garbage pickup, building code enforcement — all helped create a cycle of violence, blight and neglect that continues to haunt us. [...] the memories of humiliation and doubt and fear have not gone away; nor has the anger and the bitterness of those years. [...] At times, that anger is exploited by politicians, to gin up votes along racial lines, or to make up for a politician's own failings. [...] That anger is not always productive; indeed, all too often it distracts attention from solving real problems; it keeps us from squarely facing our own complicity within the African-American community in our condition, and prevents the African-American community from forging the alliances it needs to bring about real change. [...] In fact, a similar anger exists within segments of the white community. [...] Just as black anger often proved counterproductive, so have these white resentments distracted attention from the real culprits of the middle class squeeze [...]
I understand why people could get upset over the comments, especially if they grossly take them out of context as you are.
Obama's comments were spot on, and I'd imagine most people have relatives in similar situations. He's not saying people turn to guns and god as crutches, he's saying they turn to the issues they can rely on, the issues that haven't and cannot be taken away.
Obama can say that because he is black. I'm saying that if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white people, then the usual "black leaders" would be up in arms.
Obama can say that because he is black. I'm saying that if Mccain said that black people should stop blaming white people, then the usual "black leaders" would be up in arms.
Are you calling PD a blind Obama supporter?
PD... Why run of to GAFFYWORLD and post what FOC said? Come on man you are better than that.
What Obama said was wrong and that he trivialized their religious beliefs. Of course how dare an Obama supporter see any fault in what their candidate says. As if the man can do no wrong. Almost glad none of the mods at GAF will give me posting privileges in the OT section as it would have only lasted a few minutes.
As PD pointed out this isn't even about race. His recent remarks in San Fran are of a piece with his speech in Philly, politicians exploit justified bitterness by diverting it in counterproductive ways.
As PD pointed out this isn't even about race. His recent remarks in San Fran are of a piece with his speech in Philly, politicians exploit justified bitterness by diverting it in counterproductive ways.
But could it not be about ideals and how he sees one group as far more intellectual than another. Or possibly just an attempt to raise more money? Honestly is San Francisco really the pace for him to be making such remarks? It seems like he is pandering to them. That he will teach the inbred, nascar loving rednecks how to evolve into their "evolved" line of thought.
PD... Why run of to GAFFYWORLD and post what FOC said? Come on man you are better than that.
What part of "high status" don't you understand? IT, accounting, and most engineering jobs are not high status.Clearly, upper class liberals working in high status professions are not going to lose their jobs to third world illegal immigrants. It's so easy for them to look down on working class whites and call them bitter.Apart from the illegal immigrant bit it's already happened to IT and soon to move on (if it hasn't already) to accounting, engineering and other professions. Go to some tech sites e.g. Slashdot and there are plenty of bitter IT people there.
Obama's done- the religion part's killed him. And oddly FoC is right about Obama's gross stereotyping.
Where are you getting that rhetoric? Obama is not looking down or judging anyone, nor is he criticizing people's focus on religion or guns. All he said was that due to the economic death of their surrounding they wind up turning attention to the issues that can't be shipped to China - guns and religion - and politicians often exploit that emphasis by focusing on scare tactics rooted in homophobia or "they're gonna take your guns!" rhetoric. That's all he said
Are you from Oklahoma? Do you know any people who populate the more rural areas of the state that have been hit hard by trade issues or jobs shipped over seas, or immigration? If you can't admit many of those people are bitter you are denying reality. He isn't using the term in a strictly negative connotation, he's merely diagnosing a social problem
What part of "high status" don't you understand? IT, accounting, and most engineering jobs are not high status.Some IT and most engineering jobs are high status. Accounting depends on which field you choose. There's a reason why engineering grads and some IT grads are some of the highest paid grads coming out. As black people say money => power => respect.
Where are you getting that rhetoric? Obama is not looking down or judging anyone, nor is he criticizing people's focus on religion or guns. All he said was that due to the economic death of their surrounding they wind up turning attention to the issues that can't be shipped to China - guns and religion - and politicians often exploit that emphasis by focusing on scare tactics rooted in homophobia or "they're gonna take your guns!" rhetoric. That's all he said
Are you from Oklahoma? Do you know any people who populate the more rural areas of the state that have been hit hard by trade issues or jobs shipped over seas, or immigration? If you can't admit many of those people are bitter you are denying reality. He isn't using the term in a strictly negative connotation, he's merely diagnosing a social problem
Rhetoric? Correct me if I am wrong but would pretty much everything on here be rhetoric since none of us is the man behind the curtain, inside Obamas brain. I can only derive my opinion from things I have heard from Obama and his wife. They tend to play around with that "proverbial line" of what did they just say? Proud of her country for the first time, etc, etc.
There are plenty of other things that can't be shipped to China. Family values, work ethic, community, love of the fellow man, etc, etc. He chose the exact things he wanted to say.
Oh and I am from and live in Texas, raised by a bunch of Okies.
Money doesn't equal status. A plumber who makes more than a writer for the Times is nevertheless working in a low status job while the latter is working in a high status job.What part of "high status" don't you understand? IT, accounting, and most engineering jobs are not high status.Some IT and most engineering jobs are high status. Accounting depends on which field you choose. There's a reason why engineering grads and some IT grads are some of the highest paid grads coming out. As black people say money => power => respect.
I know you work at Ford but that's no excuse pretending IT and engineering aren't high status.
I agree that Obama and his wife has made puzzling comments more than a couple times, but this isn't one of them. Obama referenced two of the issues most exploited by politicians, and it made his point even more credible. It was a nuanced comment, one which must be looked at closely and thought about, not thrown away. We need to talk about this. You live in Texas, and place where many people are bitter about the same issues some rural Pennsylvanians are bitter about. All Obama did was attempt to start an honest, intelligent conversation on the issue yet some have rejected it, instead relying on their own insecurities.
Obama doesn't think anyone is "stupid", that's nonsense.
I agree that Obama and his wife has made puzzling comments more than a couple times, but this isn't one of them. Obama referenced two of the issues most exploited by politicians, and it made his point even more credible. It was a nuanced comment, one which must be looked at closely and thought about, not thrown away. We need to talk about this. You live in Texas, and place where many people are bitter about the same issues some rural Pennsylvanians are bitter about. All Obama did was attempt to start an honest, intelligent conversation on the issue yet some have rejected it, instead relying on their own insecurities.
Obama doesn't think anyone is "stupid", that's nonsense.
PD,
You lost me when you tried to compare Texas and rural Pennsylvania. Texas is a wee bit more diverse than you want to give us credit for. Plenty of differences in rural Texas and rural Pennsylvania. Where I live, up north in the panhandle, most of the smaller towns/rural areas have hispanic communities populating 1/3, if not more of each town. How exactly would that compare to these rural Pennsylvania towns? Or are you strictly referring to the redneck, white folks that populate Texas towns? I know you are/were homeschooled but it is obvious that you have a lot to learn about places you have never been with that attempt at a comparison.
Also are you sure that you are not a closet Obama fan because you seem to be making many claims for him. I think most humans on this earth find at least one person or group to be stupid or inferior/lacking. Me thinks the Obamas are no exception.
You keep talking about "intelligent conversation" but my question is if that it was so important why not have this "intelligent discussion" in Pennsylvania, with the very people he is talking about? You know, to see what THEY think can be done to solve this quandary. What exactly can the people of San Fransisco do to help in this situation? Other than give him money and support for his campaign.
Motives should always be questioned. To me it is pretty obvious what his was but that is just me.
Who says he's not having the intelligent discussion in Pennsylvania? Like I just showed, the remarks in SF are closely connected to his 3/18 speech on race issues which was given in Philadelphia, PA.
Why would Obama insult a bunch of these people to their face, especially considering his current position in the polls there? That makes no sense and you know it. Obama is too nuanced for his own good.
I know you work at Ford but that's no excuse pretending IT and engineering aren't high status.
I never said I worked in a high status job, so that was a pointless jab (especially since this job is temporary). I could be working as a field laborer, but that wouldn't mean IT guys are working in a high status profession.
Why would Obama insult a bunch of these people to their face, especially considering his current position in the polls there? That makes no sense and you know it. Obama is too nuanced for his own good.
He didn't do it to their face. He did it in private, to like minded liberals whose money he needs.
"Evidently, Cafferty and CNN have chosen to defend Obama by arguing that if economic conditions continue the way they are going, the small-town hicks of America could eventually become something akin to al Qaeda terrorists."
Of course plumbers aren't seen as high-status since they're seen as blue collar workers. The other professions are white collared.
Engineering, IT (depending in which field) and accounting (depending in which field) are considered high status to average person on the street.
I think he was saying that working at Ford, you might see IT guys and engineers that you work with as low class, but they may esteemed elsewhere.
My bad. Obama doesn't "need" money; I'd accept that explanation if this was Hillary.
Out of interest I checked Red State
http://redstate.com/
A part of it is out:
http://www.politico.com/blogs/bensmith/0408/Video_from_San_Francisco.html
Right before the "bitter" comment; I'm guessing the whole video will be out soon. His comments in that clip only reaffirm the point that wasn't insulting anyone, and instead giving "real talk" if you will
This has nothing to do with my experience at Ford.
I agree, although I doubt many women would dismiss a guy because he's an accountant. Accountants get paid a lot of money, and it's one of the easiest and best paying jobs you can get out of college. Me, Cheebs, and FA will be stacking paper in a few years :bowBut it's so fucking boring! I tried to do that shit and quit after the intro course. Blech.
Malek sounds pretty bitter to meThere's no doubt that I'm bitter; however, I'm not delusional enough to believe that my lack of success with women has anything to do with my lack of a decent career. Most of the women my age really don't care about that too much yet.
I agree, although I doubt many women would dismiss a guy because he's an accountant.Accounting is not a negative, but it's not a positive either! Other high status jobs are.
In fact, though, and truth value aside, because I don’t buy the strong version of Obama’s causal argument, the two cases make an interesting contrast that reflects very poorly on Ron Paul.
In each case, you have a political leader speaking to an in-group audience about an out-group. Obama tells the in-group, You should be more sympathetic to the out-group for reasons already contained within our ideology. Contrariwise, Paul goes out of the way to flatter the in-group for their hostility toward the out-group and even to foster it. (If you can possibly move away from those scary black people, do it before they kill you!) Paul’s team could have done exactly what Obama did - provide a sympathetic analysis of the out-group rooted in his own putative beliefs about the proper role of government. But when your main purpose is to dupe Willis Carto’s loser list out of its spare cash, you can’t afford to do that. A sympathetic argument from Paul’s team would have risked sounding patronizing, just as Obama’s remarks can be taken as patronizing, yes. But sounding patronizing is not as bad as, like Lew Rockwell was doing under his own name at the time, advocating that police should be encouraged to beat members of the out-group as part of their official function.
And FoC won't know what to think when he finds out that...spoiler (click to show/hide)Henley's a libertarian! Dun-dun-DUNNNNNNNNNNN[close]
And FoC won't know what to think when he finds out that...spoiler (click to show/hide)Henley's a libertarian! Dun-dun-DUNNNNNNNNNNN[close]
I dont even know who henley is, but he posts on Gaf so hes probably homo.
Summary: On Hardball, while remarking on Sen. Barack Obama's reported request for orange juice after being offered coffee at an Indiana diner, David Shuster asserted: "t's just one of those sort of weird things. You know, when the owner of the diner says, 'Here, have some coffee,' you say, 'Yes, thank you,' and, 'Oh, can I also please have some orange juice, in addition to this?' You don't just say, 'No, I'll take orange juice,' and then turn away and start shaking hands." Host Chris Matthews agreed, "You don't ask for a substitute on the menu."
"no. i'll have the duck l'orange, but with the barest hint of mint within the glaze."
"no. i'll have the duck l'orange, but with the barest hint of mint within the glaze."
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ericprva/noel.jpg)
"no. i'll have the duck l'orange, but with the barest hint of mint within the glaze."
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ericprva/noel.jpg)
do you even know who that is?
"no. i'll have the duck l'orange, but with the barest hint of mint within the glaze."
(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v516/ericprva/noel.jpg)
do you even know who that is?
Stop being an elitist.
Mandark: Love that blog you linked to, thanks. The second post makes me think of Obama as Flora in Cold Comfort Farm. I'd like to think social reform could work that way, but as a dirty Marxist I sort of can't. Still, it's clear that his talk of unity etc. is something very different and more interesting than typical talk of bipartisanship, and that's something I took a long time to realize.