THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Christopher on November 06, 2006, 10:42:49 PM
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Just trying to stir up some conversation in the hizhouse.
For me my parents have always been Republicans, me...I really don't give two shits although lately I've been becoming more and more involved in the whole political thing.
But I know some of you guys are hardcore into it, can you tell me why?
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I'll repost this from a previous thread...
I believe in firearm control. I believe in a woman's right to choose. I believe homosexuals should have civil unions with equal rights as married couples, but that is up to the state to qualify or disqualify such unions as "marriages" in name only. I believe in light, moderate control over specific economic interests. I believe in social services. I think we should create a health care system accessible to the rest of the country.
I am a registered Republican.
Oh snap.
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I'm a civil libertarian but a raging economic socialist. I generally vote Democrat but tend to vote against them when they get all gun control/enviro-preachy/politically correct. I like Republicans when they go libertarian and anti-federalism; I despise them when they start moralizing or flattering the wealthy. I want vast personal freedoms and I want a strong infrastructure in my state. I don't mind heavy taxation for wealth if the money goes to education, health care, services for the poor, and general civic planning; but I'm also practical and realize that the state does a terrible fucking job spending my money if left to their own devices. I support the death penalty and am pro-abortion. I think religion should be scoured from government and public life. I support small emerging businesses but I also think corporations should be taxed to fuck and back. I'm an isolationist and I will never support any war in which we are the clear aggressor. I don't give a shit about terrorism, and the fact that it's being used to erode my civil freedoms enrages me more than anything else.
That help?
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I'm a registered republican.
It's got a lot to do with the death penalty and abortion.
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The Republican party I loved in 1993 isn't the Republican party of 2006.
The last time I voted for a Republican was in the 2000 primaries. File me under: disallusioned and calloused.
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My spiritual vote goes for the democrats, but something tells me voting for either party isn't going to make much of a difference. Its a choice between assholes or pussies, and that shit never works out. :(
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you loved the Gingrich-era Republicans?
I think the only tolerable Republicans post-1900 were the Ike Republicans, and even then the dumb motherfuckers got their nasty god on our coinage and in our fuckin' pledge. I put 'em on par with the LBJ Democrats. :punch
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Yea, I'm a Gingrich-era Republican. Self-empowerment, old school conservative ideals, hawkish foreign policy. Pretty straight forward stuff. Back when we treated evangelicals like the Democrats treat the blacks (pander for votes, ignore when you win).
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Yea, I'm a Gingrich-era Republican. Self-empowerment, old school conservative ideals, hawkish foreign policy. Pretty straight forward stuff. Back when we treated evangelicals like the Democrats treat the blacks (pander for votes, ignore when you win).
how are those values not represented by the current administration?
FUCK THE POOR? Check.
INVADE OTHER COUNTRIES FOR US BUSINESS INTERESTS? Check.
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Liberal on social issues except abortion to a certain extent; I'm still pro-choice, but I'm becomming quite disallusioned with that position. In all cases of rape and incest I support it. I wouldn't mind seeing late term abortions not close enough to be partial-birth abortions should be outlawwed, along with partial-birth abortion
Liberal on economic issues, but I believe in creating a good environment for businesses. Business and entrepreneurs layed the foundation for America's rise to the most powerful economy in the world, and this should never be forgotten
I support a strong, yet smart, foreign policy. The "war on terrorism" is real. Attacking innocent countries won't win it, yet ignoring the problem won't either. Iran is a problem. North Korea is a problem. We can't ignore them, but we can't just attack them either. With our forces currently stuck in Iraq, I find it laughable that certain idiots continue (I'm looking at you Incognito) continue to predict an Iran war that won't happen anytime soon
Strong support for the military. Personally I don't think people in the military should have to pay taxes or health care. It would serve a two-fold purpose. It would obviously boost enlistment while treating our military families with the respect and dignity they deserve
Iraq: I don't support an immediate pull out from Iraq. I'm of the belief that things will indeed get far worse if we simply bail out. I do support a timeframe for our departure though, and I think we should begin focusing on rebuilding the infastructure of the country (water, electricity, etc) to the levels it was before we invaded. It would be against my values to watch my country destroy a country for no reason, and then leave it in shambles. We can at least get things running again before pulling out
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There is no party or idealogy that I have come across that fits me.
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I'm a registered democrat, because I believe that abortion should be legal and gay people should be able to marry. I'm a woman in love with a man, but if I were in love with another woman, it would still be the same love, IMO. As far as abortion goes, I'd never be able to have one myself and I don't think it's the right answer to "oops!", but it needs to stay legal because of cases of rape and incest.
I'm totally 100% pro-death penalty, though. I'm also voting for my state's republican candidate for governor, because the incumbent democrat is really fucking with the contracts of the public servants, and my dad's a firefighter.
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Strong support for the military. Personally I don't think people in the military should have to pay taxes or health care. It would serve a two-fold purpose. It would obviously boost enlistment while treating our military families with the respect and dignity they deserve
It made me really happy to read that. I'm not military personnel and I wouldn't wanna marry into the military, but my daddy is a Gulf War veteran and I have tons of family members in the army and marines. I think the military men and women deserve so much more than they get.
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how are those values not represented by the current administration?
FUCK THE POOR? Check.
INVADE OTHER COUNTRIES FOR US BUSINESS INTERESTS? Check.
Bush doesn't talk about self-empowerment in a real, genuine way. There are no programs initiated that have pushed this idea. "No Child Left Behind" is a travesty to our education system and would have never been passed in the mid-90's.
There is no fiscal responsibility from this administration. That was the lynchpin of the 94 revolution. Control spending and allow the President to cut out the pork. The 1994-95 sessions were the catalyst for all the Clinton surplusses of 97-99 that the left love to crow about.
There is no effort to reduce costs or shrink government. Bush has only added on layers with his initiatives. When he has taken on a huge project (Iraq, Katrina cleanup) it has resulted in billions of dollars LOST in fraud or waste.
As far as your "fuck the poor" remark, you might want to look up Bubba's record for the inner cities when he was busy being the "greatest President EVAH".
http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/11/27/national/w222702S09.DTL&hw=Inner+Cities&sn=001&sc=1000 (http://www.sfgate.com/cgi-bin/article.cgi?f=/n/a/2005/11/27/national/w222702S09.DTL&hw=Inner+Cities&sn=001&sc=1000)
So don't run out that tired cliche about the Democrats caring for the poor and the Republicans caring about the rich. Too many statistics to show both parties performing dismally. Ask the third world New Orleans how 6 decades of Democratic rule has done for them at the local and state level. You could write them the question, but only 6 out of 10 of them would be able to read it (pre-Katrina stats).
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Libertarian. I don't trust the government to spend any money responsibly. I hate the way the Republicans are eroding our civil liberties under the guise of safety.
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I guess if I had to pick one or the other, it would be Democrat, but since I'm not a citizen I can't vote anyway.
I don't know a whole lot about how the US political system works, but in a nutshell:
I'm pro-choice, pro-stem cell research, and anti-war on Iraq. I can't stand religion so I'm a big supporter of separation of church and state. I support animal rights to an extent and am a pretty big environmentalist. I hate guns. Gays should be able to get married. The end.
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lol candada :-\
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I'm a civil libertarian but a raging economic liberal. I generally vote Democrat but tend to vote against them when they get all gun control/enviro-preachy/politically correct. I like Republicans when they go libertarian and anti-federalism; I despise them when they start moralizing or flattering the wealthy. I want vast personal freedoms and I want a strong infrastructure in my state. I don't mind heavy taxation for wealth if the money goes to education, health care, services for the poor, and general civic planning; but I'm also practical and realize that the state does a terrible fucking job spending my money if left to their own devices. I support the death penalty and am pro-abortion. I think religion should be scoured from government and public life. I support small emerging businesses but I also think corporations should be taxed to fuck and back. I'm an isolationist and I will never support any war in which we are the clear aggressor. I don't give a shit about terrorism, and the fact that it's being used to erode my civil freedoms enrages me more than anything else.
That help?
You don't sound like a raging economic liberal. More like a socialist.
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You would know
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Well an economic liberal wouldn't really support heavy taxation, would they?
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why yes, i am indeed a democratic socialist
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Well an economic liberal wouldn't really support heavy taxation, would they?
Yes, for the rich.
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Well an economic liberal wouldn't really support heavy taxation, would they?
Yes, for the rich.
Haha, I thought you went to college?
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Well an economic liberal wouldn't really support heavy taxation, would they?
Yes, for the rich.
Haha, I thought you went to college?
Haha, you aren't familiar with the American liberal democrats are you
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He said economic liberal. That's not economic liberalism by anyone's definition.
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He said economic liberal. That's not economic liberalism by anyone's definition.
Are you sure "Tax the rich" is not apart of that position?
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Yes. Are we done?
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No
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I am. You're either too stupid or too argumentative to bother with.
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Polari's right; I meant economic socialist.
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Here's a history lesson for you: Conservatives normally support low taxation on citizens and businesses. They don't believe in government, but they believe that if you give people enough money in their pocket they'll further stimulate the economy through spending, especially the rich; trickle down economics in simple terms.
Liberals view the economy different. Traditionally they've been viewed as the ones who raise taxes in order to pay for government programs; obviously this role has been in reverse for the last 6 years. They usually don't support flat taxes, instead opting to tax people of higher incomes more than those with lower incomes.
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Polari's right; I meant economic socialist.
Well awesome. I was correct in my statements about "economic liberals". Economic socialists are different, true
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Here's a history lesson for you: Conservatives normally support low taxation on citizens and businesses. They don't believe in government, but they believe that if you give people enough money in their pocket they'll further stimulate the economy through spending, especially the rich; trickle down economics in simple terms.
Liberals view the economy different. Traditionally they've been viewed as the ones who raise taxes in order to pay for government programs; obviously this role has been in reverse for the last 6 years. They usually don't support flat taxes, instead opting to tax people of higher incomes more than those with lower incomes.
I take it the name Adam Smith doesn't ring any bells for you? Laissez-faire? Invisible hand? Someone buy this boy a textbook.
Back on track, politically my position is pretty much the same as Drinky's.
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Here's a history lesson for you: Conservatives normally support low taxation on citizens and businesses. They don't believe in government, but they believe that if you give people enough money in their pocket they'll further stimulate the economy through spending, especially the rich; trickle down economics in simple terms.
Liberals view the economy different. Traditionally they've been viewed as the ones who raise taxes in order to pay for government programs; obviously this role has been in reverse for the last 6 years. They usually don't support flat taxes, instead opting to tax people of higher incomes more than those with lower incomes.
I take it the name Adam Smith doesn't ring any bells for you? Laissez-faire? Invisible hand? Someone buy this boy a textbook.
Back on track, politically my position is pretty much the same as Drinky's.
Um, yeah they ring many bells. I find it rather funny that you can't even sit back and acknoledge the differences between a Conservative and Liberal's view on the US economy
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an economic liberal is not a political liberal, nor is one a subset of the other.
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...
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Fuck. Ok, I'm going to bed; my mind is dying. To make matters worse, this is shit I went over a couple weeks ago in a rather sadistic exam
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I am a Canadian....who is NOT a filthy godless communist. :o
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
:lol
That was a stupid comment. I took that question from the wrong perspective. My opinion was that Catholics were different because they don't believe salvation comes though Jesus' death solely, instead believing that a priest can pray you into heaven among other oddities not found in the Bible. Oh well. My bad
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I have no idea, I was never one for politics, though recently I feel like I should be more aware
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
:lol
That was a stupid comment. I took that question from the wrong perspective. My opinion was that Catholics were different because they don't believe salvation comes though Jesus' death solely, instead believing that a priest can pray you into heaven among other oddities not found in the Bible. Oh well. My bad
I have never heard this one before.
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
:lol
That was a stupid comment. I took that question from the wrong perspective. My opinion was that Catholics were different because they don't believe salvation comes though Jesus' death solely, instead believing that a priest can pray you into heaven among other oddities not found in the Bible. Oh well. My bad
I have never heard this one before.
For real? You've never heard of the phenomena of purgatory?
That's where my issues always come up. Although the various branches/denominations of Christianity differ on many issues, there are about 5 fundementals.
1. Mary was a virgin (Virgin Birth)
2. Diety of Christ
3. Salvation is through Jesus Christ's death (Grace through Faith)
4. Resurrection of Christ
5. and to a less extent, belief in Jesus' miracles
Obviously Catholism is big on #1. They believe in the Deity of Christ. They believe in his resurrection. They believe in the miracles. But their believe on the most important fundemental Christian belief of salvation through Christ is rather iffy. They do believe in being "born again", but this is brought by baptism into the Catholic faith according to their teachings, and not through Christ.
This is where purgatory comes in. Catholics believe that you go to purgatory if you have unforgiven sins, which directly contradicts every teaching of fundemental salvation; Christ died for all your sins more than 2000 years ago, and they are all forgiven already. With this in mind, how would it be possible to go to purgatory? And as I said earlier, they also believe that one can be prayed into heaven by way of penance. In other words, if you died in real life and went to purgatory, people who were still alive could pray for you and take years off your sentence, so to speak. Once again, this is nowhere in the bible.
That being said, I have nothing against Catholics. They do a lot of good in the world, and I respect that. But my concerns about some of their practices, and the fact that some would place them alongside fundemental Christians, remains.
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
:lol
That was a stupid comment. I took that question from the wrong perspective. My opinion was that Catholics were different because they don't believe salvation comes though Jesus' death solely, instead believing that a priest can pray you into heaven among other oddities not found in the Bible. Oh well. My bad
I have never heard this one before.
For real? You've never heard of the phenomena of purgatory?
That's where my issues always come up. Although the various branches/denominations of Christianity differ on many issues, there are three fundementals.
1. Mary was a virgin (Virgin Birth)
2. Diety of Christ
3. Salvation is through Jesus Christ's death (Grace through Faith)
4. Resurrection of Christ
5. and to a less extent, belief in Jesus' miracles
Obviously Catholism is big on #1. They believe in the Deity of Christ. They believe in his resurrection. They believe in the miracles. But their believe on the most important fundemental Christian belief of salvation through Christ is rather iffy. They do believe in being "born again", but this is brought by baptism into the Catholic faith according to their teachings, and not through Christ.
This is where purgatory comes in. Catholics believe that you go to purgatory if you have unforgiven sins, which directly contradicts every teaching of fundemental salvation; Christ died for all your sins more than 2000 years ago, and they are all forgiven already. With this in mind, how would it be possible to go to purgatory? And as I said earlier, they also believe that one can be prayed into heaven by way of penance. In other words, if you died in real life and went to purgatory, people who were still alive could pray for you and take years off your sentence, so to speak. Once again, this is nowhere in the bible.
That being said, I have nothing against Catholics. They do a lot of good in the world, and I respect that. But my concerns about some of their practices, and the fact that some would place them alongside fundemental Christians, remains.
Eh, it's more the sinner doing penance for venial sins committed in life than having the congregation pray people into heaven, though a prayer for those in purgatory is common in most (all?) catholic masses.
Mormon's have the thing where they can retroactively baptize anyone and send them to Mormon heaven. They did it to Hitler.
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
:lol
That was a stupid comment. I took that question from the wrong perspective. My opinion was that Catholics were different because they don't believe salvation comes though Jesus' death solely, instead believing that a priest can pray you into heaven among other oddities not found in the Bible. Oh well. My bad
I have never heard this one before.
For real? You've never heard of the phenomena of purgatory?
That's where my issues always come up. Although the various branches/denominations of Christianity differ on many issues, there are three fundementals.
1. Mary was a virgin (Virgin Birth)
2. Diety of Christ
3. Salvation is through Jesus Christ's death (Grace through Faith)
4. Resurrection of Christ
5. and to a less extent, belief in Jesus' miracles
Obviously Catholism is big on #1. They believe in the Deity of Christ. They believe in his resurrection. They believe in the miracles. But their believe on the most important fundemental Christian belief of salvation through Christ is rather iffy. They do believe in being "born again", but this is brought by baptism into the Catholic faith according to their teachings, and not through Christ.
This is where purgatory comes in. Catholics believe that you go to purgatory if you have unforgiven sins, which directly contradicts every teaching of fundemental salvation; Christ died for all your sins more than 2000 years ago, and they are all forgiven already. With this in mind, how would it be possible to go to purgatory? And as I said earlier, they also believe that one can be prayed into heaven by way of penance. In other words, if you died in real life and went to purgatory, people who were still alive could pray for you and take years off your sentence, so to speak. Once again, this is nowhere in the bible.
That being said, I have nothing against Catholics. They do a lot of good in the world, and I respect that. But my concerns about some of their practices, and the fact that some would place them alongside fundemental Christians, remains.
Eh, it's more the sinner doing penance for venial sins committed in life than having the congregation pray people into heaven, though a prayer for those in purgatory is common in most (all?) catholic masses.
Mormon's have the thing where they can retroactively baptize anyone and send them to Mormon heaven. They did it to Hitler.
Well they're prayed out of purgatory, thus into heaven; from my understanding no one in purgatory eventually goes to heaven as long as the penence is done. It's meant to lower their time in purgatory. This belief simply cannot exist if one truly believes Christ died for all sins. Catholics dont' give me the impression that they do. Is my position on Catholics and Chrsitians a bit clearer now?
Mormons...oy.
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
:lol
That was a stupid comment. I took that question from the wrong perspective. My opinion was that Catholics were different because they don't believe salvation comes though Jesus' death solely, instead believing that a priest can pray you into heaven among other oddities not found in the Bible. Oh well. My bad
I have never heard this one before.
For real? You've never heard of the phenomena of purgatory?
That's where my issues always come up. Although the various branches/denominations of Christianity differ on many issues, there are three fundementals.
1. Mary was a virgin (Virgin Birth)
2. Diety of Christ
3. Salvation is through Jesus Christ's death (Grace through Faith)
4. Resurrection of Christ
5. and to a less extent, belief in Jesus' miracles
Obviously Catholism is big on #1. They believe in the Deity of Christ. They believe in his resurrection. They believe in the miracles. But their believe on the most important fundemental Christian belief of salvation through Christ is rather iffy. They do believe in being "born again", but this is brought by baptism into the Catholic faith according to their teachings, and not through Christ.
This is where purgatory comes in. Catholics believe that you go to purgatory if you have unforgiven sins, which directly contradicts every teaching of fundemental salvation; Christ died for all your sins more than 2000 years ago, and they are all forgiven already. With this in mind, how would it be possible to go to purgatory? And as I said earlier, they also believe that one can be prayed into heaven by way of penance. In other words, if you died in real life and went to purgatory, people who were still alive could pray for you and take years off your sentence, so to speak. Once again, this is nowhere in the bible.
That being said, I have nothing against Catholics. They do a lot of good in the world, and I respect that. But my concerns about some of their practices, and the fact that some would place them alongside fundemental Christians, remains.
Eh, it's more the sinner doing penance for venial sins committed in life than having the congregation pray people into heaven, though a prayer for those in purgatory is common in most (all?) catholic masses.
Mormon's have the thing where they can retroactively baptize anyone and send them to Mormon heaven. They did it to Hitler.
Well they're prayed out of purgatory, thus into heaven; from my understanding no one in purgatory eventually goes to heaven as long as the penence is done. It's meant to lower their time in purgatory. This belief simply cannot exist if one truly believes Christ died for all sins. Catholics dont' give me the impression that they do. Is my position on Catholics and Chrsitians a bit clearer now?
Mormons...oy.
Not at all.
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lol the differences I just brought out make it pretty clear there are MAJOR differences on the most important issue, salvation.
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lol the differences I just brought out make it pretty clear there are MAJOR differences on the most important issue, salvation.
Yes, but Christianity is a very wide umbrella, and the definition really has nothing to do with the particulars of salvation.
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lol the differences I just brought out make it pretty clear there are MAJOR differences on the most important issue, salvation.
Yes, but Christianity is a very wide umbrella, and the definition really has nothing to do with the particulars of salvation.
It's a wide umbrella, but it's held together by a handful of fundemental beliefs, as I said earlier. Catholism is positioned in opposition to some of them, which is where my problem comes up.
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lol the differences I just brought out make it pretty clear there are MAJOR differences on the most important issue, salvation.
Yes, but Christianity is a very wide umbrella, and the definition really has nothing to do with the particulars of salvation.
It's a wide umbrella, but it's held together by a handful of fundemental beliefs, as I said earlier. Catholism is positioned in opposition to some of them, which is where my problem comes up.
Except it's not. Despite your worldly homeschooling, you don't get to define the words. Christianity refers to any religions built on the life and beliefs of Jesus Christ. That's it. Nothing about salvation. Your fundie church may attach more baggage to the term so you can exclude other religions and make yourselves feel holy and righteous, as they are wont to do, but that doesn't make it true.
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Um, ok
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I don't know why you people even try to argue with Mr. Catholics aren't Christians.
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I am a Democrat, straight party ticket type. Bill Clinton was the guy that made me fall in love with the party more or less. I adored the guy as a kid. I was just 6 years old in 92 yet I kept a news paper headline with "CLINTON WINS IN LANDSLIDE" on it, I still have it. :lol
Moral issue wise I fit under the liberal side. In 2004 I voted against the prop. to make marriage only for a man and women in MI, I am personally against abortion but I feel it should be a women's right, big time supporter of affirmative action, and I hate guns and want restrictions on them. I am a catholic though, not a atheist liberal.
Iraq? Put me under the Jack Murtha style redeploy immediately camp.
I am a economic democrat as well. I love the big government style. I am all for repealing the tax cuts ASAP. It annoys me when so many so called young "democrats" start voting the party line out of hatred of Bush yet fail to realize what it means to be a democrat on the side of economics.
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(http://img.photobucket.com/albums/v473/Belligerent/RAWR.gif)
Hey guys, what's going on in this thread?
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I don't vote for parties or for politicians - but for what's right.
... And that's why you should vote for Will Federman as the write-in governor of California this election day. He'll fix the state, by kicking out all the parasitic citizens, downsizing Hollywood and extraditing Phoenix Dark to face stiff death penalties.
There's only ONE choice for California state governor. This guy:
(http://www.evilbore.com/images/celebritywill.jpg)
WILL FEDERMAN: HE KINDA LOOKS LIKE JOHNNY DEPP