THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 09:12:38 PM

Title: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 09:12:38 PM: Referring to the broad use of that pejorative label apparently popular with young people on web forums (and in real life?), not the musical genre that spawned it. If not, why not? Too much depth and substance? Why can't the folks labeled "emo" today have more substance? Not smart enough, or is there some deeper social/cultural reason? If not smart enough, then what are the smarter but similarly inclined people doing?

(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/thumb/f/f4/The_Scream.jpg/463px-The_Scream.jpg)
(yes I know this is 19th century, shut up)
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 06, 2008, 09:24:00 PM: because they bucked the fuck up and made great art instead of whining like fucking babies and doing nothing

also, they channeled their frustration and pathos and dysphoria into something productive that could be shared and experienced by everyone, which as an action unto itself is the very antithesis of being a selfish fucking teenager
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 09:47:15 PM: so with all the frustration etc. that exists today, why can't we have great expressionist art anymore? I was under the impression that emo etc. do make art and stuff, they just make shitty art. or is it just that all the shitty expressionist art of that time has been forgotten? I dunno, I still wonder about deeper cultural/social reasons.

also, contrary to what I saw someone claim on a blog, Kafka wasn't externally oppressed more than anyone else, he had a decent white-collar job etc. He eventually developed tuberculosis but not until after writing some of his famous stories.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: TVC15 on May 06, 2008, 10:30:48 PM: What relationship is there between expressionism and emo that makes you think they are comparable?
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 06, 2008, 10:34:34 PM: Quote from: TVC 15 on May 06, 2008, 10:30:48 PM
What relationship is there between expressionism and emo that makes you think they are comparable?

Expressing emotions. Clearly if you do this you are either emo or an expressionist; there are no others.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: TVC15 on May 06, 2008, 10:38:03 PM: Quote from: Father_Mike on May 06, 2008, 10:34:34 PM
Quote from: TVC 15 on May 06, 2008, 10:30:48 PM
What relationship is there between expressionism and emo that makes you think they are comparable?

Expressing emotions. Clearly if you do this you are either emo or an expressionist; there are no others.

So Jackson Pollock was the Fallout Boy of yesteryear?
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:41:02 PM: Not talking about the musical genre, see the first sentence of my original post.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 06, 2008, 10:42:08 PM: Clearly. We can tell by his black hair

(http://www.monroegallery.com/showcase/images/MH_JacksonPollock2.jpg)

For now on we should refer to this school as expressive emoism or expremoism.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: TVC15 on May 06, 2008, 10:43:10 PM: Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:41:02 PM
Not talking about the musical genre, see the first sentence of my original post.

(http://Referring to the broad use of that pejorative label apparently popular with young people on web forums)

Expressionism was never a movement, so I don't think it was ever popular at one point in time to use it as a pejorative label. Except maybe in regards to the aforementioned Mr. Pollock, who managed to get famous for doing what was labeled as abstract expressionism.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: TVC15 on May 06, 2008, 10:46:29 PM: Ergh, I was only thinking of painters there, as there was a movement in film, lol. But still, I don't see what you are getting at. I don't see how expressionism and "emo" are at all comparable.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:47:29 PM: Never mind. I can't yet express myself on this topic clearly enough to get useful responses. I basically knew that going into this but thought it was worth a shot anyway.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 06, 2008, 10:48:25 PM: stop being so emo, pussy, and man up
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: TVC15 on May 06, 2008, 10:49:38 PM: Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:47:29 PM
Never mind. I can't yet express myself on this topic clearly enough to get useful responses. I basically knew that going into this but thought it was worth a shot anyway.

The thing is, expressionism is a type of art. Emo is a style of music and dress and what not. Emo is no more an art movement than new wave or punk.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:51:24 PM: should I also stop being a doormat and grow a spine and some balls lol

but if being a pussy is an essential part of me, doesn't growing balls because people say I should ITSELF constitute being a doormat?
OMG PARADOX
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 06, 2008, 10:51:33 PM: i'd like to suggest a new social movement called "tenninism," where we spend inordinate amounts of time on the internet trying to gratingly convince a select few nerds we can't stand to change the rules of society to grant us the mantle of personal success, rather than going out there maddox-style and kicking ass like a REAL MAN
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: TVC15 on May 06, 2008, 10:52:57 PM: Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:51:24 PM
should I also stop being a doormat and grow a spine and some balls lol

but if being a pussy is an essential part of me, doesn't growing balls because people say I should ITSELF constitute being a doormat?
OMG PARADOX

Stop being so expressionismo, faggurt.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 06, 2008, 10:54:10 PM: Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on May 06, 2008, 10:51:24 PM
should I also stop being a doormat and grow a spine and some balls lol

but if being a pussy is an essential part of me, doesn't growing balls because people say I should ITSELF constitute being a doormat?
OMG PARADOX

if you choose to develop testicular fortitude after evaluating all options, then there is no paradox. if you wind up feigning scrotal sensibility because you're afraid of a few opinionated posters, then you are truly a complete and nuanced practitioner of tenninsm <3 <3 <3
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 06, 2008, 11:09:01 PM: Quote from: Professor Prole on May 06, 2008, 10:51:33 PM
"tennantism,"

A doctor who movement? I'm in.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 06, 2008, 11:10:49 PM: dude, i'd make a joke about "movements" but man you already told us how red YOUR revolution is :-X
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 06, 2008, 11:14:13 PM: Father_Mike
This is the last time I post my poop colour on the internet!
Senior Member

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I have no idea why you think it's red, unless your talking about Recursive bing a communist. I'm confused.
[close]
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 06, 2008, 11:17:06 PM: i thought you were shitting blood. are you shitting up these instead?

(http://www.freshchocodiles.com/images/zingers.jpg)

tvc will be mad if he isn't the first to refactor your rectal assembly for the frosting intrusion process
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 06, 2008, 11:18:18 PM: My butt is bleeding but from my crack not by anus.

and that sums up this thread well.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on May 07, 2008, 01:47:36 AM: There are huge differences.

Emo today is mostly just self wallowing and conceit at the same time. Most expressionists or other like minded figures lived in poverty or at the very least, not a comfortable upper middle class suburban lifestyle, like the common emo we see today. Most emos hate themselves and the lives they live but are too clouded by their own overinflated self worth to see that they don't have it that bad (Myanmar anyone?) Of course, most emos won't recognize this and often become angry at the idea that that their pain of living a comfortable life is not as significant a starving Bangladeshi who considers it a good day to get a few rice grains in his bowl.

In fact, you couldn't be more wrong about expressionism and emo. I think you just enjoy throwing around big words but you are not really sure what they mean outside of the quick description dictionary.com gives.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 07, 2008, 02:19:19 AM: Quote from: Father_Mike on May 06, 2008, 11:18:18 PM
My butt is bleeding but from my crack not by anus.

and that sums up this thread well.

Well, at least we learned something valuable from this thread.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 07, 2008, 02:33:53 AM: Quote
Most expressionists or other like minded figures lived in poverty or at the very least, not a comfortable upper middle class suburban lifestyle, like the common emo we see today.

I can't be sure about "most" but some of the most famous and influential expressionists lived middle class lifestyles. (and much of their most angst-filled work was done in a period of peace, between the Franco-Prussian War and WW1). Kafka (as mentioned above), Schoenberg, Kandinsky etc. As far as I know, none of them came from Bangladesh or Myanmar but I could be wrong.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on May 07, 2008, 02:41:37 AM: Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on May 07, 2008, 02:33:53 AM
Quote
Most expressionists or other like minded figures lived in poverty or at the very least, not a comfortable upper middle class suburban lifestyle, like the common emo we see today.

I can't be sure about "most" but some of the most famous and influential expressionists lived middle class lifestyles. (and much of their most angst-filled work was done in a period of peace, between the Franco-Prussian War and WW1). Kafka (as mentioned above), Schoenberg, Kandinsky etc. As far as I know, none of them came from Bangladesh or Myanmar but I could be wrong.

There was a lot of strife going on in those times. Much like the eye of a hurricane rather than insulated prosperity like the emos today. The artists and writers of the early 20th century were fully aware of the goings on around the world. Emos today will only be aware if they get a MySpace spam message.

My point about Myanmar and Bangladesh is that emos whine about the pain they are in but ignore the real pain going on around the world. Expressionists, among other artists and writers, did not ignore what was going on with the ills of society.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 07, 2008, 03:01:59 AM: There is plenty of strife today --- I can't imagine anyone not being aware of it --- and I think the problems that do exist in middle-class American society are connected to the larger problems in the world and America's role in them (a viewpoint popularized in e.g. "Bowling for Columbine"). But we're getting to the nub of the problem, which is the question I posed in my original post: why could discontented petty bourgeois channel their frustration into something consequential then, but not now? What social and cultural changes explain this? A proper answer would need to progress beyond insults and banal stereotypes.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 07, 2008, 03:08:57 AM: Quote
The thing is, expressionism is a type of art. Emo is a style of music and dress and what not.

My roommate went as a Kandinsky painting for Halloween last year (seriously).
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"?
Post by: TVC15 on May 07, 2008, 03:15:34 AM: Quote from: recursivelyenumerable on May 07, 2008, 03:01:59 AM
why could disconnected petty bourgeois channel their frustration into something consequential then, but not now? What social and cultural changes explain this?

I believe they still are today. It will just take more time to recognize what's art and what isn't due to their not being as much interest in art as there was in the past, at least on a broad cultural level. The explosion of postwar pop culture kind of left fine art in the dust. Things haven't been initially judged on their artistic merit in a long time. Profitability is much more important in our soulless world. I think there are still lots of great young artists out there today. It's just more difficult for them to get their time in the sun.

Quote
A proper answer would need to progress beyond insults and banal stereotypes.

You're such a pair of tits, dude.
Title: Re: If the early 20th-c. expressionists worked today would they be labeled "emo"
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 07, 2008, 03:16:35 AM: i'm not sure if that's an insult or a compliment