THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:13:25 PM

Title: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:13:25 PM
http://www.lp.org/media/article_589.shtml (http://www.lp.org/media/article_589.shtml)

Libertarian Party selects Bob Barr as 2008 presidential nominee

Quote
Denver - The Libertarian Party has nominated former Congressman Bob Barr as its candidate for president for the 2008 election.

"I'm sure we will emerge here with the strongest ticket in the history of the Libertarian Party," Barr stated in his victory speech shortly after being selected as the Party's nominee. "I want everybody to remember that we only have 163 days to win this election.  We cannot waste one single day."

More than 650 Libertarian delegates met in Denver from May 22 till the 26 for the 2008 Libertarian National Convention.  After six rounds of voting Sunday afternoon, Barr was selected as the Party's presidential nominee. 

"We're proud to present to the American voters Bob Barr as our presidential nominee," says Libertarian Party spokesperson Andrew Davis. "While Republicans and Democrats will fight for their own power in November, Libertarians will fight for Americans.  Bob Barr is one of the strongest candidates in the Party's 37-year history, and we look for him to have an enormous impact in the 2008 race.  Republicans and Democrats have good reason to fear a candidate like Barr, who refuses to accept the 'business-as-usual' attitude of the current political establishment.  Americans want and need another choice, and that choice is Bob Barr."

The Libertarian Party is America's third largest political party, founded in 1971 as an alternative to the two main political parties.  You can find more information on the Libertarian Party by visiting www.LP.org. The Libertarian Party proudly stands for smaller government, lower taxes and more freedom.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FancyFeast on May 26, 2008, 06:18:30 PM
(http://wwwimage.cbsnews.com/images/2002/08/07/image517785x.jpg)

Him re-enacting his famous sword fights with Trent Lott.  :o
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 06:19:26 PM
tee hee

if ron paul is the pope of the free market faith, then bob barr is the pederast cardinal of the americas
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 26, 2008, 06:23:24 PM
he's gonna fuck over McCain in November
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:29:34 PM
he's gonna fuck over McCain in November

I doubt it. But I kind of hope he does.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 06:32:11 PM
who is the candidate for the belligerent baptist voting bloc?

alas, huck, we hardly new ye. :'( if there's a revolution, it will not come from effete progressives but from the rapture-as-mandate set

my dream government involves special "camps" for baptists where homosexuals use their mouths as aids toilets
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 26, 2008, 06:36:12 PM
didn't you read the article about evangelitrolls staying home in November so Obama can win, thus setting off biblical disasters? and then in 2012 huck emerges as God's Candidate :bow

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 06:37:46 PM
mmm, preznit obama PLUS armageddon PLUS all christians being taken to heaven! it's like hitting the trifecta!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 06:40:25 PM
despite my persistently confirmed belief that all lolbertarians are naive, short-sighted, anti-social dogmatists, i would take a million years of ron paul over one day of huck in office
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:42:01 PM
despite my persistently confirmed belief that all lolbertarians are naive, short-sighted, anti-social dogmatists, i would take a million ron pauls over one huck

Ron Paul isnt that bad, as much as you try to say. I know you know this but have to keep up the act for Internet LOLs. Alot of you guys would probably vote for Ron Paul over Hillary the way yo guys talk about her.

What's the worst thing that would happen if Ron Paul were president?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 26, 2008, 06:43:52 PM
i would take a million ron pauls over neocons. honestly i hope paul set off some revolution that will bear fruit in a couple decades as the GOP moves away from the bullshit and more towards their true calling. whoever institutes these changes won't be as extremist as paul, just as reagan wasn't as extremist as goldwater - but yea, i hope he was the seed planter
spoiler (click to show/hide)
then i can email EB links to the NY Times to swift boat FoC's 2036 senate run :bow
[close]
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Fragamemnon on May 26, 2008, 06:44:28 PM
whether or not barr has an impact really depends on Ron Paul endorsing and supporting him over McCain, I would think. Paul's the rockstar in that movement, not barr.

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:45:42 PM

then i can email EB links to the NY Times to swift boat FoC's 2036 senate run :bow

I can't wait till elections in the future when stuff like this starts happening. I can see it now. Presidential candidate Bush the 3rd's 4chan posts found!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:46:20 PM
whether or not barr has an impact really depends on Ron Paul endorsing and supporting him over McCain, I would think. Paul's the rockstar in that movement, not barr.

You can count on it. Unless Mccain makes a dramatic change, Ron Paul has already said he doesnt support him.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 06:51:57 PM
despite my persistently confirmed belief that all lolbertarians are naive, short-sighted, anti-social dogmatists, i would take a million ron pauls over one huck

Ron Paul isnt that bad, as much as you try to say. I know you know this but have to keep up the act for Internet LOLs. Alot of you guys would probably vote for Ron Paul over Hillary the way yo guys talk about her.

What's the worst thing that would happen if Ron Paul were president?

from my perspective and off the top of my head? a rise in corporatism; a lack of strong environmental regulations; bad currency investments and money policy (greenspan's been bad enough); potential damage to federal institutions i want to see reformed and strengthened (DoE, NEA, FDA, EPA, NASA); no chance of meaningful roosevelt-styled economic regulations

good things? the death of confrontationalism as foreign policy; a big middle finger to the ten commandments folks; constitutionalist court appointments; abortions for everyone

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 26, 2008, 06:54:41 PM
don't forget michigan quality roads for everyone!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:55:26 PM
a rise in corporatism; a lack of strong environmental regulations; bad currency investments and money policy (greenspan's been bad enough); potential damage to federal institutions i want to see reformed and strengthened (DoE, NEA, FDA, EPA, NASA); no chance of meaningful roosevelt-styled economic regulations
:o  :lol


What do you consider good money policy?
Why do you think their would be a rise in corporatism. Remember Ron Paul would stop all the subsides to large corporations like wal-mart etc...
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 06:55:53 PM
if michigan's residents can't find the money to buy decent roadwork from halliburton, fuck 'em!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 06:58:03 PM
if michigan's residents can't find the money to buy decent roadwork from halliburton, fuck 'em!

Maybe if someone in michigan got a job.

Oh SNAP!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 26, 2008, 06:58:57 PM
radioactive asphalt  :o :bow
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: APF on May 26, 2008, 07:02:43 PM
Is NASA actually relevant nowadays?  Are they still doing [/could they still do] unique research that has substantial utility in practical terms?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:03:19 PM
Is NASA actually relevant nowadays?  Are they still doing [/could they still do] unique research that has substantial utility in practical terms?

 :shh :shh

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:04:57 PM
you mean in terms of immediate profit potential -- i.e. the golden calf of all lolbertarians? no. in terms of longterm scientific achievement and social inspiration? yes.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: APF on May 26, 2008, 07:05:47 PM
I ask out of ignorance, not because I have some agenda.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: APF on May 26, 2008, 07:06:22 PM
"Inspiration" though, seems like it can come from anywhere.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:06:42 PM
you mean in terms of immediate profit potential -- i.e. the golden calf of all lolbertarians? no. in terms of longterm scientific achievement and social inspiration? yes.

Way to be extremely vague. Didnt Sony use the same excuse with the PS3? "It has lots of potential, so its really worth it guys. Trust us."
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:09:16 PM
oh sweet jesus, foc. please: never make an analogy again.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:13:48 PM
oh sweet jesus, foc. please: never make an analogy again.

You have failed to point out any fallacy.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:16:06 PM
You know what would be really inspirational to me? Not having 33% of my wages that I earned taken away from me, so i buy stuff for myself.

But I guess that's not quite the same as broken Mars Rovers churning out out big JPEGs of red rocks.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: APF on May 26, 2008, 07:16:21 PM
PS3 wha?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:21:23 PM
i am getting very tired of pointing out the grossly obvious with you, although i find it hilarious that you consider the federal government to be directly analogous to a for-profit consumer-focused corporation. disingenuous similarities aside, here you go: the ps3 is a retail item sold to a largely homogenous niche market. nasa is not. the ps3 needs immediate profits to remain viable; there is nothing in nasa's charter that specifies that. lastly, the audience for the ps3 is directly self-selecting; nasa's is not in any meaningful way.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:22:16 PM
You know what would be really inspirational to me? Not having 33% of my wages that I earned taken away from me, so i buy stuff for myself.

But I guess that's not quite the same as broken Mars Rovers churning out out big JPEGs of red rocks.

you don't earn shit, anyway, so it's not like libertarian society has much use for you. upon your back are the feet of titans rested, and all that.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:25:45 PM
i am getting very tired of pointing out the grossly obvious with you, although i find it hilarious that you consider the federal government to be directly analogous to a for-profit consumer-focused corporation. disingenuous similarities aside, here you go: the ps3 is a retail item sold to a largely homogenous niche market. nasa is not. the ps3 needs immediate profits to remain viable; there is nothing in nasa's charter that specifies that. lastly, the audience for the ps3 is directly self-selecting; nasa's is not in any meaningful way.

So your excuses for NASA are the following

1. NASA doenst make a profit.
2. NASA doesnt need a profit because of its charter. Never mind that we are in fact debating the merit of NASA to begin with.
3. NASA's audience doesnt get a choice.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sounds great. I want to create a charter that says I get lots of tax money so then you cant debate the merit of it because it's in the charter. LOLOLOLOLZ
[close]
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: APF on May 26, 2008, 07:29:35 PM
Uh, I'm not interested in this pseudo debate over whether or not we should have a NASA; personally I'm more interested in why you said NASA specifically, as IIRC something that was underfunded [edit] needed to be reformed and strengthened.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 07:30:53 PM
The work NASA does is very important long-term, especially since other countries are thinking the same thing. Sure they move slow, but considering the budget cuts they get all the time, I'm not shocked.

Science in the United States is really in a bad way. IIRC even super colliders are losing funding, and larger better ones are being built in other countries. Scientists are not like the military, the only way we can hold them is with the funding to let them run with their ideas. It took a dire situation like WWII to drive our last great think tank to us in 30s and 40s; once they all leave the US over the next few years over public and govt ignorance over the importance of scientific progress, I am not quite sure how we'll ever get them back.

This isnt an argument for NASA so much as an argument against selfishness and ignorance masked as short-term practicallity.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:31:43 PM
The work NASA does is very important long-term, especially since other countries are thinking the same thing. Sure they move slow, but considering the budget cuts they get all the time, I'm not shocked.

Such as?

I'm still waiting for an answer to APF's question.

Quote
Is NASA actually relevant nowadays? 

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 07:33:23 PM
The work NASA does is very important long-term, especially since other countries are thinking the same thing. Sure they move slow, but considering the budget cuts they get all the time, I'm not shocked.

Such as?

I'm still waiting for an answer to APF's question.

Quote
Is NASA actually relevant nowadays? 



If youre too stupid to even theorize what i might be thinking of, i'm not sure I want to spend the time.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: AdmiralViscen on May 26, 2008, 07:33:44 PM
The work NASA does is very important long-term, especially since other countries are thinking the same thing. Sure they move slow, but considering the budget cuts they get all the time, I'm not shocked.

Science in the United States is really in a bad way. IIRC even super colliders are losing funding, and larger better ones are being built in other countries. Scientists are not like the military, the only way we can hold them is with the funding to let them run with their ideas. It took a dire situation like WWII to drive our last great think tank to us in 30s and 40s; once they all leave the US over the next few years over public and govt ignorance over the importance of scientific progress, I am not quite sure how we'll ever get them back.

This isnt an argument for NASA so much as an argument against selfishness and ignorance masked as short-term practicallity.

Pitch-perfect post.

PPP
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:35:13 PM
Uh, I'm not interested in this pseudo debate over whether or not we should have a NASA; personally I'm more interested in why you said NASA specifically, as IIRC something that was underfunded [edit] needed to be reformed and strengthened.

putting it in that list was a mistake, but in case you missed the caveat: it was off the top of my head. i like my tax dollars going to nasa.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:36:23 PM
i am getting very tired of pointing out the grossly obvious with you, although i find it hilarious that you consider the federal government to be directly analogous to a for-profit consumer-focused corporation. disingenuous similarities aside, here you go: the ps3 is a retail item sold to a largely homogenous niche market. nasa is not. the ps3 needs immediate profits to remain viable; there is nothing in nasa's charter that specifies that. lastly, the audience for the ps3 is directly self-selecting; nasa's is not in any meaningful way.

So your excuses for NASA are the following

1. NASA doenst make a profit.
2. NASA doesnt need a profit because of its charter. Never mind that we are in fact debating the merit of NASA to begin with.
3. NASA's audience doesnt get a choice.


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Sounds great. I want to create a charter that says I get lots of tax money so then you cant debate the merit of it because it's in the charter. LOLOLOLOLZ
[close]

no, idiot, those are my reasons nasa isn't the playstation 3, and why your analogy is spurious. you are almost impossibly stupid.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:36:29 PM
putting in that list was a mistake, but in case you missed the caveat: it was off -the-top of my head. i like my tax dollars going to nasa.

Do you give extra money to NASA? Do you donate to any other Science/ space exploration organizations?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:37:02 PM
no, idiot, those are my reasons nasa isn't the playstation 3, and why your analogy is spurious. you are almost impossibly stupid.

I never said that NASA was the PS3.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Candyflip on May 26, 2008, 07:37:37 PM
could chop a camel right in its hump and drink all its milk.
:lol
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:38:16 PM

Way to be extremely vague. Didnt Sony use the same excuse with the PS3? "It has lots of potential, so its really worth it guys. Trust us."


pluto this filth in the name of nasa
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: APF on May 26, 2008, 07:38:25 PM
I'm not against funding science in the abstract, but I'm questioning why fund NASA specifically and not some other org, group of orgs, universities, other things I may be missing, etc; I'm not a "science guy" so again I'm asking out of ignorance more than anything else.  As a layman I get the sense that much of the utility of the initial hayday of the science program has come and went, and other countries are interested more for national pride issues than utilitarian concerns, even far-reaching ones.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: AdmiralViscen on May 26, 2008, 07:40:20 PM
no, idiot, those are my reasons nasa isn't the playstation 3, and why your analogy is spurious. you are almost impossibly stupid.

I never said that NASA was the PS3.

:rofl
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:41:58 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 07:42:33 PM
I think its because NASA is established and has delivered before. Its essentially a gimme. The govt knows a space race is in our future, and it knows it wants to keep a portion for itself, aside from all the commercially funded ventures. NASA doesnt actually get that much money. They just happen to actually get some. Unlike most organizations they are tied to the Govt, and the Govt likes to look good.

I think ultimately the problem with funding NASA is that exploring the unexplored is so damned failure prone, and even tests and built in redundancy jacks of the operating costs for each project. They've been getting better and better each year as their techniques get better and better.

Additionally, the science community has bad PR and the general public doesnt like complicated things; they just want results.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:44:07 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?

Lots of private organization or companies have said things.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 07:45:46 PM
WHY AINT WE ON TEH MOON?! WHY AINT WE FLYIN CARS?! WHY AIN?!?

Bubba don't care how hard it is, he just want him der things
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 26, 2008, 07:47:22 PM
Flying cars are a lot like triple AAA PS3 titles:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
they don't exist
[close]

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:49:48 PM
My first job was a tour guide for NASA in Houston. It was pretty depressing because all we could show people was old computers and technology from over 25 years ago. The one cool project we got to show people was an escape vehicle for the ISS which eventually got scrapped. I'm sure that was well spent Tax money.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 07:51:09 PM
Progress costs money, distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:53:50 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?

Lots of private organization or companies have said things.

and i am fine with them doing it in ADDITION to nasa. again, i believe most folks -- like you -- are too short-sighted or narrow-minded to invest in things that do not offer immediate or direct profit, but i want you paying for it nonetheless because you are not independent of society, and societies persist based on long-term visions produced by the educated and the elite. if you are offended at having your society-backed currency and society-backed freedoms and society-backed leadership "extorting" the money and property you have only because the same social contract permits it, you might consider adjusting your expectations to something more in line with your education. otherwise, quit acting like the exchange of goods, services, and currencies are the sole fundament of society and culture, and find some other venue to validate your anti-intellectualism. i am sorry that freedom and currency don't really exist aside from social consensus, but there you go!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:54:29 PM
Progress costs money, distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.

The true rallying cry of Socialists.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar!
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 26, 2008, 07:55:56 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?

Lots of private organization or companies have said things.

That's great, but private organizations shouldn't get govt money unless the fruits of the labor born of that money are split with the govt.  That's why throwing money to NASA is a better idea.

Also, HEY GUYZ REMEMBER WHEN FoC COULDN'T MAKE THREADS?!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Altho I must say that I was actually coming in here to post a thread about Bob Barr if it hadn't been done already, because I think he's going to torpedo Johnny Short Arms come November and I will laugh insanely.
[close]
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 07:56:10 PM
well, disingenuously, this explains why you'll settle for the wii, foc
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 07:56:16 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?

Lots of private organization or companies have said things.

and i am fine with them doing it in ADDITION to nasa. again, i believe most folks -- like you -- are too short-sighted or narrow-minded to invest in things that do not offer immediate or direct profit, but i want you paying for it nonetheless because you are not independent of society, and societies persist based on long-term visions produced by the educated and the elite. if you are offended at having your society-backed currency and society-backed freedoms and society-backed leadership "extorting" the money and property you have only because the same social contract permits it, you might consider adjusting your expectations to something more in line with your education. otherwise, quit acting like the exchange of goods, services, and currencies are the sole fundament of society and culture, and find some other venue to validate your anti-intellectualism. i am sorry that freedom and currency don't really exist aside from social consensus, but there you go!

Just dont be surprised when your society-backed science turns out to be anything but.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: AdmiralViscen on May 26, 2008, 07:58:22 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?

Lots of private organization or companies have said things.

and i am fine with them doing it in ADDITION to nasa. again, i believe most folks -- like you -- are too short-sighted or narrow-minded to invest in things that do not offer immediate or direct profit, but i want you paying for it nonetheless because you are not independent of society, and societies persist based on long-term visions produced by the educated and the elite. if you are offended at having your society-backed currency and society-backed freedoms and society-backed leadership "extorting" the money and property you have only because the same social contract permits it, you might consider adjusting your expectations to something more in line with your education. otherwise, quit acting like the exchange of goods, services, and currencies are the sole fundament of society and culture, and find some other venue to validate your anti-intellectualism. i am sorry that freedom and currency don't really exist aside from social consensus, but there you go!

Just dont be surprised when your society-backed science turns out to be anything but.

What does that even mean :lol

That post owned you.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 26, 2008, 08:00:25 PM
because nasa has the name, the public awareness, the organizational structure, and the charter?

Lots of private organization or companies have said things.

and i am fine with them doing it in ADDITION to nasa. again, i believe most folks -- like you -- are too short-sighted or narrow-minded to invest in things that do not offer immediate or direct profit, but i want you paying for it nonetheless because you are not independent of society, and societies persist based on long-term visions produced by the educated and the elite. if you are offended at having your society-backed currency and society-backed freedoms and society-backed leadership "extorting" the money and property you have only because the same social contract permits it, you might consider adjusting your expectations to something more in line with your education. otherwise, quit acting like the exchange of goods, services, and currencies are the sole fundament of society and culture, and find some other venue to validate your anti-intellectualism. i am sorry that freedom and currency don't really exist aside from social consensus, but there you go!

Just dont be surprised when your society-backed science turns out to be anything but.

What does that even mean :lol

That post owned you.

He's too dumb to know when he's been owned.  It's pretty awesome, it's like a punching bag that you can shoot a nuke at then rape, but it's still always there for you when you need to hit something.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:00:34 PM
Don't be surprised when society gives you something as science and it isn't science at all. Kind of like how some parts of america want to give you creationism as science.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 26, 2008, 08:02:37 PM
So all the scientific discoveries made by NASA are not scientific?  ???
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:04:05 PM
So all the scientific discoveries made by NASA are not scientific?  ???

Did I say that?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: AdmiralViscen on May 26, 2008, 08:08:19 PM
So all the scientific discoveries made by NASA are not scientific?  ???

Did I say that?

What were you saying then?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:12:34 PM
Don't be surprised when society gives you something as science and it isn't science at all. Kind of like how some parts of america want to give you creationism as science.

or some parts of america want to give you the gold standard
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:13:37 PM
Don't be surprised when society gives you something as science and it isn't science at all. Kind of like how some parts of america want to give you creationism as science.

or some parts of america want to give you the gold standard

The difference is that my example is actually happening. Your example is likely to never happen.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:14:25 PM
which means i shouldn't be concerned about either outcome why?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on May 26, 2008, 08:15:42 PM
Bob Barr? I loved him on the Price is Right!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 26, 2008, 08:16:27 PM
So all the scientific discoveries made by NASA are not scientific?  ???

Did I say that?

I'm not really sure what you said. The United States is full of scientifically illiterate people, but has never had anything approaching Lysenkoism. Generally, scientific research isn't forced to conform to strict ideological or religious convictions. American society is full of creationists, but they make up a small percentage of actual scientists and have next to no influence in the scientific community.

Has NASA had a history of modifying scientific research to fit society's religious and ideological beliefs? If not, you are simply using unwarranted fear. The people most likely to be in favor of funding NASA adequately are also the same people least likely to be in favor of contaminating science with ideological nonsense.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:18:30 PM
which means i shouldn't be concerned about either outcome why?
Are you concerned with the teaching of creationism? I mean it is "Society-backed" to use your term.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:18:35 PM
remember that libertarian corporatism is also ideological nonsense i'd rather not have tainting science, even if the folks paying their taxes really DO love the aibo
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:19:37 PM
The people most likely to be in favor of funding NASA adequately are also the same people least likely to be in favor of contaminating science with ideological nonsense.

Proof?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:20:25 PM
remember that libertarian corporatism is also idiological nonsense i'd rather not tainting science, even if the folks paying their taxes really DO love the aibo
:lol :lol :lol

Tell me what that means. I have no idea.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 08:20:43 PM
We can always tell when FoC is losing, he starts shouting 'PROOF?'
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on May 26, 2008, 08:21:39 PM
I think that FoC is suggesting NASA is staffed by sleeper Creationists waiting for the inauguration of President Huckabee to unleash their anti-Science beam on an unsuspecting public.

THE METHUSELAN CANDIDATE
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on May 26, 2008, 08:22:15 PM
We can always tell when FoC is losing, he starts shouting 'PROOF?'

and demanding clarification of simple terms. he's like the Phoenix Wright player who doesn't know how to solve the case and just clicks on every piece of evidence hoping to advance the plot
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 08:22:46 PM
The Phoenix lander is actually delivering the bible.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:23:01 PM
We can always tell when FoC is losing, he starts shouting 'PROOF?'

Do you have any?


Quote
and demanding clarification of simple terms.
I honestly dont know what libertarian corporatism is. But im sure its really evil and mean and wants to butt rape you.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 08:23:16 PM
We can always tell when FoC is losing, he starts shouting 'PROOF?'

and demanding clarification of simple terms. he's like the Phoenix Wright player who doesn't know how to solve the case and just clicks on every piece of evidence hoping to advance the plot


We need some kind of penalty system lol
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:24:24 PM
okay, he is NOT allowed to demand proof until he can demonstrate that libertarianism works
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:25:15 PM
okay, he is NOT allowed to demand proof until he can demonstrate that libertarianism works

Can you prove that socialism works?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:26:10 PM
We can always tell when FoC is losing, he starts shouting 'PROOF?'

Do you have any?


Quote
and demanding clarification of simple terms.
I honestly dont know what libertarian corporatism is. But im sure its really evil and mean and wants to butt rape you.

libertarian corporatism --  the implicit argument to all libertarian economic rationalizations that suggests any regulation is bad, and hence that corporations should go unregulated. see also: the morality of profit.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:26:37 PM
okay, he is NOT allowed to demand proof until he can demonstrate that libertarianism works

Can you prove that socialism works?

where am i suggesting it does? THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:27:30 PM
okay, he is NOT allowed to demand proof until he can demonstrate that libertarianism works

Can you prove that socialism works?

where am i suggesting it does? THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE.

I dont know you brought up Libertarianism when we were talking about NASA

THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE.

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:30:04 PM
which means i shouldn't be concerned about either outcome why?
Are you concerned with the teaching of creationism? I mean it is "Society-backed" to use your term.

yes i am. i am arguing that society is a REALITY that must be dealt with, not that it is moral or right in any or all circumstances. Libertarianism denies reality, presuming that all men are islands, that liberty exists independent of society, and that economics are a fundamentally objective condition just because they play so nice with numbers.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:30:10 PM
We can always tell when FoC is losing, he starts shouting 'PROOF?'

Do you have any?


Quote
and demanding clarification of simple terms.
I honestly dont know what libertarian corporatism is. But im sure its really evil and mean and wants to butt rape you.

libertarian corporatism --  the implicit argument to all libertarian economic rationalizations that suggests any regulation is bad, and hence that corporations should go unregulated. see also: the morality of profit.


(http://www.spscriptorium.com/Treats/TimRobbins.jpg)
Corporations are bad becuase
Quote
Let me explain to you how this works. You see, the corporations finance Team America. And then Team America goes out and the corporations sit there in their, ih in their corporation buildings and, and and see that's, they're all corporationy, and they make money. Mhm.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:31:41 PM
did i say they were bad? suggesting they need regulation does NOT suggest that all corporations are evil. THE WORLD IS NOT BLACK AND WHITE.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:36:33 PM
yes i am. i am arguing that society is a REALITY that must be dealt with, not that it is moral or right in any or all circumstances. Libertarianism denies reality, presuming that all men are islands, that liberty exists independent of society, and that economics are a fundamentally objective condition just because they play so nice with numbers.

I'm arguing that different aspects of society should be voluntary. If I don't want to pay for NASA, the Iraq war, creationism or a bridge to nowhere then I shouldn't have to. Very little in a free society should be mandatory, it should be a choice, hence the word freedom.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:37:39 PM
proof?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 08:41:53 PM
PROOF!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:50:09 PM
Here is the difference from when I ask for proof and when you do.
Quote
I'm arguing that different aspects of society should be voluntary. If I don't want to pay for NASA, the Iraq war, creationism or a bridge to nowhere then I shouldn't have to. Very little in a free society should be mandatory, it should be a choice, hence the word freedom.

IS AN OPINON


Quote
The people most likely to be in favor of funding NASA adequately are also the same people least likely to be in favor of contaminating science with ideological nonsense.

IS WRITTEN AS A FACT.


Surely you know the difference between fact and opinions right Prole?

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 26, 2008, 08:52:14 PM

Quote
Very little in a free society should be mandatory, it should be a choice, hence the word freedom.

IS WRITTEN AS A FACT.


fix'd to assist.

have we descended into semantic wrangling, now? has it really gotten so bad for you?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on May 26, 2008, 08:56:40 PM
GUYS.  The question of whether PS3=NASA has been shown to be UNDECIDABLE under standard ZFC.  Consistent models with PS3=NASA and ~(PS3=NASA) have BOTH been constructed.  So stop arguing and shake hands.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:56:54 PM

Quote
Very little in a free society should be mandatory, it should be a choice, hence the word freedom.

IS WRITTEN AS A FACT.


fix'd to assist.


Are you saying that
Quote
Very little in a free society should be mandatory, it should be a choice, hence the word freedom.
is written as a fact. Do I need proof to say an opinion.

I cant tell if you are trolling or distinguished mentally-challenged. I'm pretty sure your trolling because I dont think you can be that stupid.


Quote
have we descended into semantic wrangling, now? has it really gotten so bad for you?
Have you descended into posting the word "PROOF?" for an opinion.
 :lol :lol

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 08:58:22 PM
Actually I just remembered, now that Im unlepered I can ignore Prole's trolling.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 09:01:23 PM
Haha, cant win? Ignore em. That'll help people take you seriously you fucktard.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 09:02:18 PM
Haha, cant win? Ignore em. That'll help people take you seriously you fucktard.

Can anyone win when Prole trolls?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 09:03:33 PM
I think you'd win if you weren't so stupid.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 26, 2008, 09:05:25 PM


Quote
The people most likely to be in favor of funding NASA adequately are also the same people least likely to be in favor of contaminating science with ideological nonsense.

IS WRITTEN AS A FACT.



I wrote that as fact because it should be pretty intuitive that people who want to fund actual scientific research want to do so, at least in part, to increase our knowledge of the universe. It is incoherent to want to increase the funding of a scientific organization only to subvert that scientific organization's research. If people want to simply promote their own ideological prejudices, they should not fund scientific organizations. Unless you live in a totalitarian society, it is not an effective way to promote one's ideology. And the scientific community and the educated members of our society would raise a holy stink.



Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 26, 2008, 09:06:21 PM
I like how FoC can ponder pure conspiracy, but the instant we refute it he asks US for proof lol
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 26, 2008, 09:10:35 PM
What conspiracy?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 27, 2008, 08:18:43 AM
I think you'd win if you weren't so stupid.

We were all winners when he couldn't create his own threads, and had no option to ignore people.  Just saying!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 27, 2008, 10:56:59 AM
Huck shits on libertarianism/strict conservatism

Quote
What can the party do to reverse course?

Republicans need to be Republicans. The greatest threat to classic Republicanism is not liberalism; it's this new brand of libertarianism, which is social liberalism and economic conservatism, but it's a heartless, callous, soulless type of economic conservatism because it says "look, we want to cut taxes and eliminate government. If it means that elderly people don't get their Medicare drugs, so be it. If it means little kids go without education and healthcare, so be it." Well, that might be a pure economic conservative message, but it's not an American message. It doesn't fly. People aren't going to buy that, because that's not the way we are as a people. That's not historic Republicanism. Historic Republicanism does not hate government; it's just there to be as little of it as there can be. But they also recognize that government has to be paid for.

 :heartbeat

Quote
Do you think Obama is an evangelical?

I don't know that I would call him an evangelical, but I think he's certainly a Christian, he openly declares his Christian faith, and I think some Republicans who try to dismiss that are making a big mistake, and they'll be very naïve if they think they can just assume that all of the faith vote is going to automatically go Republican this year. It is not.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/will-mari/huckabee-on-the-next-repu_b_103556.html

Refusing to play politics :bow

2012 can't come soon enough :bow

 
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: MrAngryFace on May 27, 2008, 12:08:32 PM
I think you'd win if you weren't so stupid.

We were all winners when he couldn't create his own threads, and had no option to ignore people.  Just saying!

Hay, IM not the one that unlepered him!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 27, 2008, 12:19:07 PM
I think you'd win if you weren't so stupid.

We were all winners when he couldn't create his own threads, and had no option to ignore people.  Just saying!

Hay, IM not the one that unlepered him!

I know, I just want to keep reiterating that until the inevitable happens, so that I can be the one that says "I was constantly telling you guys..."
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 01:13:13 PM
:(

My Econ teacher is a huge libertarian.  I really didn't like him before finding out, and now I just can't wait for the semester to end.  He and two students in my class just won't shut up. 

I had several militant communists in a number of my classes. That wasn't very fun either. There were a number of libertarians too, but they weren't social atomists or belligerent
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: APF on May 27, 2008, 01:55:41 PM
Do not ask for whom the Prole trolls.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 27, 2008, 02:02:21 PM
Economists are soulless anyways. 

Or, in the case of Paul Krugman, just dumb.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 27, 2008, 02:15:32 PM
why you gotta hate the krug
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 02:20:03 PM
I just thought of something. Since Prole is so anal about charters, where in our charter (The constitution) does it say that it is the federal governments job to advance "longterm scientific achievement and social inspiration"



Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: APF on May 27, 2008, 02:23:26 PM
why you gotta hate the krug

Krugman == Hillary supporter.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 27, 2008, 02:25:44 PM
I just thought of something. Since Prole is so anal about charters, where in our charter (The constitution) does it say that it is the federal governments job to advance "longterm scientific achievement and social inspiration"

I dunno, but it does say some interesting things about distinguished black fellows and how their owners get to count them as 3/5 of a vote!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: APF on May 27, 2008, 02:28:03 PM
I think there's definitely a validity in asserting that if funding NASA [/ anything] results in research which is not immediately commercially viable, yet advances research / science on the whole, in a manner that has permeating effects therefore on science and research on the whole, then there is a common public interest in government funding.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 02:31:35 PM
I think there's definitely a validity in asserting that if funding NASA [/ anything] results in research which is not immediately commercially viable, yet advances research / science on the whole, in a manner that has permeating effects therefore on science and research on the whole, then there is a common public interest in government funding.

Yeah, NASA doesn't need to produce non-stick frying pans to be valuable to society. It's just a nice bonus.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 02:34:23 PM
I think there's definitely a validity in asserting that if funding NASA [/ anything] results in research which is not immediately commercially viable, yet advances research / science on the whole, in a manner that has permeating effects therefore on science and research on the whole, then there is a common public interest in government funding.

I can see that argument, but in my humble opinion thats just not the governments job. When NASA was created during the cold war it was and still is under the defense budget. It could probably be legitimately argued defense back then. Now though, its more like a shinny toy we show the rest of the world. I mean how many times do we need to see snapshots from mars rover on CNN while they tell us that their might be water there!

And to be honest guys, NASA is one of the last thing I would get rid of. We are just debating the principle of it.




Yeah, NASA doesn't need to produce non-stick frying pans to be valuable to society. It's just a nice bonus.

In your opinion what does it need to do?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 02:44:32 PM
Yeah..and there really is no good private equivalent that would result if NASA were eliminated. 

You mean their is not private entity that would waste billions on pointless research! I'm utterly shocked!  :o
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 27, 2008, 02:48:01 PM
he's not soulless; he's just short-sighted. The fundamental flaw with ALL libertarians is that aside from their sense of larger alienation, they have a need for immediate (and usually monetary) return on any investment. Money is important, no doubt, but it's not the only currency that drives human social existence. The world is far, far more complex than simply the exchange of goods/services. Business is often a very poor metaphor for the social behaviors of humanity at large, but to the simple-minded, it seems quite convenient. (Alternatively: the Bible!) It's all the same need to simplify and reduce the frightening complexity of the world, rather than realize that world must be dealt with anew in each individual circumstance, and that the common rules always fluctuate from moment to moment.

That said, alienation leads to demands for short-term returns, because you feel that society will turn on you at any moment, depriving you of opportunity. Poor Libertarians: owned by Jung and Foucault years ago, and they still don't know it!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 02:56:16 PM
Profit is the incentive for everything whether you Libtards get that or not.  :lol :lol Somewhere in the chain someone is getting something out of it.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Eric P on May 27, 2008, 02:59:23 PM
Henry Rollins is anti-NASA

he feels the money could be spent on people on Earth much more effectively.

i see his point, but disagree, taking the tack that arts and sciences must be funded because they elevate us as a society.

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 27, 2008, 03:00:13 PM
i married my wife for profit? i had a child for profit? i am loyal to my friends for profit? i post on message boards for profit?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 03:01:00 PM
Yes, Im soulless because I think I should have the freedom to choose where my money goes instead od being forced to spend it on something.

How can I be such a monster!!!

God liberals are so fucking stupid. Your argument basically consists of "Think of all the people and all the good it will do." I'm not fucking arguing that no good will come of NASA I'm arguing based on the principle that what I earn is mine. Yes, I understand that their will always be taxes for things, but only for the most necessary of things. Last time I checked NASA WASNT FUCKING NECESSARY.

If you can argue that NASA is necessary for the united states of america than I will change my mind.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 27, 2008, 03:04:00 PM
But what you earn isn't yours. It's society's. As the primary actor in your relationship with society, you get the larger portion of it, but as long as you participate in society and partake of its benefits, you are obligated to pay in a number of ways, including financially -- and financially is the least of the forms of payment, since currency is wholly an invention of society and perhaps the most obvious of the ways its contracts manifest.

If you feel you are entitled to everything you make, leave society. In a cabin in Manitoba, you can keep EVERYTHING and no-one will care.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 03:04:16 PM
i see his point, but disagree, taking the tack that arts and sciences must be funded because they elevate us as a society.

Yes, Arts and sciences must be funded, I agree 100% I'm not arguing against that. I'm only saying that we should get a choice on where to fund it. As it is now, we get no choice at all. NASA could fuck up royally and the politicians would just throw more money at it. What about the columbia disaster. Bush gave a speech and said he wants to fund NASA even more.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Eric P on May 27, 2008, 03:04:54 PM
Henry Rollins is anti-NASA
he feels the money could be spent on people on Earth much more effectively.
i see his point, but disagree, taking the tack that arts and sciences must be funded because they elevate us as a society.

If the costs of NASA were directly transplanted to other humanitarian efforts, arts, and sciences...I would be hard-pressed to argue which would be more beneficial in the short and long-term.  But since the savings on eliminating NASA would likely be used for "defense" or other shenanigans, I would have to disagree with him.



in context he was exploring ideal concepts of the redistribution of that wealth rather than realistic events.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 03:05:30 PM
who said you were soulless?  I think you're projecting...
Quote
he is soulless.

I guess you were talking about your teacher.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 27, 2008, 03:06:06 PM
NASA has inspired many kids to join private enterprises as aerospace engineers -- without the vision of space flight and travel, they might all be useless film majors*.

(*--I kid, film majors may not produce anything practical and with an immediate return, like NASA, but they inspire folks to entertain us!)
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 03:06:20 PM

In your opinion what does it need to do?
Explore the cosmos and the more practical benefits will follow.


Why don't you leave the country?  Is there not enough private incentive for you to justify spending your dollars on going through the proper motions to move elsewhere? 

If someone doesn't like the package of benefits and burdens that is offered by the state, they can't simply get up and leave. They have many ties to their communities that they simply can't break. They have family, friends, and jobs that can't simply leave. And then there is the problem of finding another country to live in. There are legal, linguistic, and cultural barriers that are hard to circumvent. Besides, there is no place to go for the anarchist or minarchist; there are no anarchist or minarchist societies.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Eric P on May 27, 2008, 03:06:48 PM
i see his point, but disagree, taking the tack that arts and sciences must be funded because they elevate us as a society.

Yes, Arts and sciences must be funded, I agree 100% I'm not arguing against that. I'm only saying that we should get a choice on where to fund it. As it is now, we get no choice at all. NASA could fuck up royally and the politicians would just throw more money at it. What about the columbia disaster. Bush gave a speech and said he wants to fund NASA even more.

i thought we got a choice via proxy.  we vote for the people who make the ultimate decisions.

you don't really get much more free market than democracy and the will of the people
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 03:07:57 PM
In a cabin in Manitoba, you can keep EVERYTHING and no-one will care.

I'm moving there soon. I WILL CARE.  :maf
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 27, 2008, 03:08:26 PM
the will of the people was not ron paul, though :( :( :(
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 03:10:10 PM
i thought we got a choice via proxy.  we vote for the people who make the ultimate decisions.

you don't really get much more free market than democracy and the will of the people

It's much easier and efficient to vote with your money. How many giant corporations have fallen in the past two decades and ow many have risen?

Also, I'm not sure why you think the will of the people is the same as free market. Many governments had the will of the people behind them, Nazi Germany, soviet russia etc... And I would never argue that they were very free.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Eric P on May 27, 2008, 03:19:20 PM
i thought we got a choice via proxy.  we vote for the people who make the ultimate decisions.

you don't really get much more free market than democracy and the will of the people

It's much easier and efficient to vote with your money. How many giant corporations have fallen in the past two decades and ow many have risen?

Also, I'm not sure why you think the will of the people is the same as free market. Many governments had the will of the people behind them, Nazi Germany, soviet russia etc... And I would never argue that they were very free.

they had good marketing.

i also think that any entity given that amount of power and time will insulate itself so that the ultimate benefactor is the entity in question.  It may not even be a conscious shift, but rather smaller immediate decisions made by myopic individual agents within those entities.  Even if the entity is ultimately supposed to be helping people (or was at least designed with that in mind).

look at what has become of the oldest, largest "centralized" organization the world currently has, the Catholic Church.

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 03:45:29 PM
Aww thanks.
Quote
And someone who's a staunch libertarian doesn't care about things like "community"

Where do you get this from? This is akin to people calling Ron Paul an isolationist when he wants to trade with every country (The exact opposite of an isolationist).
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 04:02:22 PM
Aww thanks.
Quote
And someone who's a staunch libertarian doesn't care about things like "community"

Where do you get this from? This is akin to people calling Ron Paul an isolationist when he wants to trade with every country (The exact opposite of an isolationist).

People get this impression because libertarians emphasize the interests of individuals over communities and societies. Anything that can serve as a political value has to be capable of being instantiated by the fictitious isolated individual. Thus social goods and values tend to be ignored. If someone argues that NASA benefits society as a whole, this will leave you cold; the lone individual's economic liberty is paramount.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 04:15:46 PM
Aww thanks.
Quote
And someone who's a staunch libertarian doesn't care about things like "community"

Where do you get this from? This is akin to people calling Ron Paul an isolationist when he wants to trade with every country (The exact opposite of an isolationist).

People get this impression because libertarians emphasize the interests of individuals over communities and societies. Anything that can serve as a political value has to be capable of being instantiated by the fictitious isolated individual. Thus social goods and values tend to be ignored. If someone argues that NASA benefits society as a whole, this will leave you cold; the lone individual's economic liberty is paramount.

Libertarianism describes philosophies which uphold the principles of individual liberty and minimize the role of the state. Libertarians dont ignore the community, they only believe that the best and most free community is one in which humans have the freedom to choose their extent of participation. Look at all the non-profit organizations that thrive. These arent done because the government gives them money, they are thriving because we want to do good for the community. It's very easy to fall into a dangerous trap when you argue for the good of the collective (eugenics, genocide, Iraq war etc...) are all things that happened because we were led to believe that it was for the benefit of the large community. "You need to give up some basic privacy rights because we will find terrorists and save lots of lives" is one thing I hear alot these days. Do you agree with that? 

The funny thing is that minorities will benefit the least from any sort of collective action and you guys call me a racist. One could argue that the war on drugs is for the benefit of the large community, after all the end justifies the means right? I want to end the "war on drugs" which unjustly imprisons many low income black men and I'm the racist?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Eric P on May 27, 2008, 04:23:01 PM
The funny thing is that minorities will benefit the least from any sort of collective action and you guys call me a racist.

minorities is a fairly specific term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group

by it's true definition, your statement is correct, but i don't think that it's what you're intending.

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 04:25:46 PM
The funny thing is that minorities will benefit the least from any sort of collective action and you guys call me a racist.

minorities is a fairly specific term.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Minority_group

by it's true definition, your statement is correct, but i don't think that it's what you're intending.

What we consider minorities in everyday english in america. Woman, blacks, hispanics, gays etc... Are all the least likely people to benefit from collective action.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 04:33:54 PM
Aww thanks.
Quote
And someone who's a staunch libertarian doesn't care about things like "community"

Where do you get this from? This is akin to people calling Ron Paul an isolationist when he wants to trade with every country (The exact opposite of an isolationist).

People get this impression because libertarians emphasize the interests of individuals over communities and societies. Anything that can serve as a political value has to be capable of being instantiated by the fictitious isolated individual. Thus social goods and values tend to be ignored. If someone argues that NASA benefits society as a whole, this will leave you cold; the lone individual's economic liberty is paramount.

Libertarianism describes philosophies which uphold the principles of individual liberty and minimize the role of the state. Libertarians dont ignore the community, they only believe that the best and most free community is one in which humans have the freedom to choose their extent of participation. Look at all the non-profit organizations that thrive. These arent done because the government gives them money, they are thriving because we want to do good for the community. It's very easy to fall into a dangerous trap when you argue for the good of the collective (eugenics, genocide, Iraq war etc...) are all things that happened because we were led to believe that it was for the benefit of the large community. "You need to give up some basic privacy rights because we will find terrorists and save lots of lives" is one thing I hear alot these days. Do you agree with that? 

The funny thing is that minorities will benefit the least from any sort of collective action and you guys call me a racist. One could argue that the war on drugs is for the benefit of the large community, after all the end justifies the means right? I want to end the "war on drugs" which unjustly imprisons many low income black men and I'm the racist?

If someone believes that political values should be judged with the community and society in mind, that doesn't mean he has to assent to every governmental policy that is then justified by the public good. Things like forced eugenics, genocide, the Iraq war, and the War on Drugs do not simply follow from emphasizing community interests. And worrying about the public good doesn't entail ignoring individual rights and liberties--especially since it can be argued that they are public goods too. You are trying to create a false dilemma between libertopia and an evil, totalitarian state full of eugenicist bogeymen. 

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 04:43:12 PM
If someone believes that political values should be judged with the community and society in mind, that doesn't mean he has to assent to every governmental policy that is then justified by the public good. Things like forced eugenics, genocide, the Iraq war, and the War on Drugs do not simply follow from emphasizing community interests.

So in nazi germany the jews had a choice on wether to participate in the genocide or not? Is that what you are saying?
And yes those things came about BECAUSE we were told it was for the greater good. "If we dont attack Iraq Saddam will get america. Are you un-american?" (aka are you not part of the collective group think?)


And worrying about the public good doesn't entail ignoring individual rights and liberties--especially since it can be argued that they are a public good too. 

Yes it does, the definition of freedom is "the power or right to act, speak, or think as one wants without hindrance or restrain." If you tell me that I have to sacrifice my privacy because terrorists are going to get you then yes, you are in fact saying the greater good of the public is more important than individual rights.

We could have police search everyones house once a week and we would probably be really safe because of it. But are you willing to give up that right to privacy for security? If not then why not? After all it's for the greater good.

It all comes down to this, "Does the end justify the means."

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 04:55:29 PM
If someone believes that political values should be judged with the community and society in mind, that doesn't mean he has to assent to every governmental policy that is then justified by the public good. Things like forced eugenics, genocide, the Iraq war, and the War on Drugs do not simply follow from emphasizing community interests.

So in nazi germany the jews had a choice on wether to participate in the genocide or not? Is that what you are saying?
And yes those things came about BECAUSE we were told it was for the greater good. "If we dont attack Iraq Saddam will get america. Are you un-american?" (aka are you not part of the collective group think?)


I was saying that a communitarian, or anyone who even remotely believes that social values are important, doesn't have to assent to every single policy simply because governments claim they will benefit social values. Maybe the following dialogue will help.

Foc: Do you think social values are important?

Me: Sure.

FoC: Then you must like killing Jews

Me: Google Godwin's law!

FoC: Well killing Jews will benefit society.

Me: Just because you claim that something will benefit society doesn't mean that it actually will. And even if it would, that doesn't mean that I have to sacrifice the most fundamental liberties. I don't suffer from aspergers, it's not a question of either or!
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 05:10:03 PM
I was saying that a communitarian, or anyone who even remotely believes that social values are important, doesn't have to assent to every single policy simply because governments claim they will benefit social values. Maybe the following dialogue will help.

You're right you dont have to support every outcome of the system, but when you support the system you cant be surprised when these things do happen.

Just because you claim that something will benefit society doesn't mean that it actually will.
:lol :lol :lol

Your argument is "We need to benefit society unless what society wants, doesn't benefit them." Who gets to be the decider of when  collective policy is good? Are you saying that some collective actions dont benefit society? If so how do you go about fixing that? I would rather be in a situation where these things couldn't happen in the first place then to try and fix them later on. Again I'll bring up the Iraq war. I would much rather the president not have the ability to declare war without consent of the legislative branch. Then to just shallowly protest it after the fact.

And even if it would, that doesn't mean that I have to sacrifice the most fundamental liberties.

 You dont get to decide. Thats my point. Do you think anyone that is receiving the short end of the stick in a collective society wants to be shit upon?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 05:28:30 PM
I was saying that a communitarian, or anyone who even remotely believes that social values are important, doesn't have to assent to every single policy simply because governments claim they will benefit social values. Maybe the following dialogue will help.

You're right you dont have to support every outcome of the system, but when you support the system you cant be surprised when these things do happen.


What system am I supporting again? I have been talking about the individual and how he evaluates political values--whether he evaluates political values which can only be realized by the solitary individual or values which can only be realized by society at large. OR, like most people, both!

I was saying that a communitarian, or anyone who even remotely believes that social values are important, doesn't have to assent to every single policy simply because governments claim they will benefit social values. Maybe the following dialogue will help.

You're right you dont have to support every outcome of the system, but when you support the system you cant be surprised when these things do happen.

Just because you claim that something will benefit society doesn't mean that it actually will.
:lol :lol :lol

Your argument is "We need to benefit society unless what society wants, doesn't benefit them."


No it wasn't. Look if medicine is claimed to be beneficial for my health, that doesn't mean the medicine is actually beneficial to my health. It might not be, it has to be proved to be beneficial. And even if it is beneficial, if my taking the medicine harms others, then it might still not be worth taking. Thus a policy which is claimed to be socially good, might not actually be socially good. And if it harms individuals, then it may be irrelevant whether the policy has social benefits.

You dont get to decide. Thats my point. Do you think anyone that is receiving the short end of the stick in a collective society wants to be shit upon?
I don't recall advocating collectivism. Taking social and community interests into consideration != collectivism.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 05:36:34 PM
What system am I supporting again? I have been talking about the individual and how he evaluates political values--whether he evaluates political values which can only be realized by the solitary individual or values which can only be realized by society at large. OR, like most people, both!
I'm arguing that the individual is more important than the collective. Are you not arguing against that? You are arguing that some liberties can be sacrificed as long as their is benefit for the greater good.


No it wasn't. Look if medicine is claimed to be beneficial for my health, that doesn't mean the medicine is actually beneficial to my health. It might not be, it has to be proved to be beneficial. And even if it is beneficial, if my taking the medicine harms others, then it might still not be worth taking.


Two things, first you have a choice whether to take the medicine or not. So that alone throws your analogy out the window.

Thus a policy which is claimed to be socially good, might not actually be socially good. And if it harms individuals, then it may be irrelevant.

Second, What do you do when the collective wants the policy that is not socially good (Iraq war etc...).

Also, why is harming individuals irrelevant. You are again saying that the end justifies the means.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 05:51:39 PM
What system am I supporting again? I have been talking about the individual and how he evaluates political values--whether he evaluates political values which can only be realized by the solitary individual or values which can only be realized by society at large. OR, like most people, both!

 I'm arguing that the individual is more important than the collective. Are you not arguing against that? You are arguing that some liberties can be sacrificed as long as their is benefit for the greater good.


I argued that the libertarian ignores social values and only focus on those values that can be realized by the socially isolated individual. This does not mean social values should have precedent over individualistic values, or that liberties should be curtailed. This is your imagination running wild.



Two things, first you have a choice whether to take the medicine or not. So that alone throws your analogy out the window.


No it isn't since I still have the freedom to assent to or to oppose a particular policy, though I cannot ultimately stop its enactment. Agreeing to take the medicine is analogous to agreing to support a particular policy. (I can be forced to take medication too, in some instanced. The important point is whether I assent or not.)


Second, What do you do when the collective wants the policy that is not socially good (Iraq war etc...).

Also, why is harming individuals irrelevant. You are again saying that the end justifies the means.

.

This is a problem in any democracy, that's why we have constitutions, to prevent mob rule.

I didn't mean that harming individuals was irrelevant, I meant that if you had to harm individuals, the possible benefits of a policy were irrelevant.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 05:56:09 PM
This is a problem in any democracy, that's why we have constitutions, to prevent mob rule.

Except NASA isnt in the constitution, to go back to the earlier. Many agencies that we have these days are not in the constitution because people interpret it so loosely that it might as well not even be there.

No it isn't since I still have the freedom to assent to or to oppose a particular policy, though I cannot ultimately stop its enactment. Agreeing to take the medicine is analogous to agreing to support a particular policy. (I can be forced to take medication too, in some instanced. The important point is whether I assent or not.)

What happens when you dont take medicine?
What happens when you dont pay your taxes as a form of civil protest against what the government is using the money for?


Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 06:03:48 PM
This is a problem in any democracy, that's why we have constitutions, to prevent mob rule.

Except NASA isnt in the constitution, to go back to the earlier. Many agencies that we have these days are not in the constitution because people interpret it so loosely that it might as well not even be there.


Funding NASA isn't an example of mob rule.



What happens when you dont take medicine?
What happens when you dont pay your taxes as a form of civil protest against what the government is using the money for?


I'm not getting your point.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 06:05:46 PM
Funding NASA isn't an example of mob rule.
Do I get a choice?



What happens when you dont take medicine?
What happens when you dont pay your taxes as a form of civil protest against what the government is using the money for?


I'm not getting your point.

What happens when you dont take medicine? Nothing
What happens when you dont pay your taxes? Use of force by the state.

Do you see the difference?
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Flannel Boy on May 27, 2008, 06:14:18 PM
Funding NASA isn't an example of mob rule.
Do I get a choice?


At the ballot box. Democracy isn't simply mob rule.


What happens when you dont take medicine? Nothing
What happens when you dont pay your taxes? Use of force by the state.

Do you see the difference?
I maintain that it doesn't affect my analogy. You still have the ability to agree with or disagree with the policy of taxation, though legally you still have to pay actual taxes.

ME:
Quote
No it isn't since I still have the freedom to assent to or to oppose a particular policy, though I cannot ultimately stop its enactment. Agreeing to take the medicine is analogous to agreeing to support a particular policy. (I can be forced to take medication too, in some instanced. The important point is whether I assent or not.)
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 06:17:45 PM
At the ballot box. Democracy isn't simply mob rule.

That doesn't make it right. I can name many events thoughout human history that were voted on. One recent example is that George Bush got re-elected.... Does that mean what he did was right?

I maintain that it doesn't affect my analogy. You still have the ability to agree with or disagree with the policy of taxation, though legally you still have to pay actual taxes.

Yes technically you are right, we have the right to disagree. Im sure all the jews disagreed with Hitlers policy.  :lol
My point here is that merely disagreeing with groupthink doesnt mean jack shit.


I want to point out that I am not calling you or anyone here Hitler, I'm only trying to show the fallacies of collectivism.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 06:32:33 PM
 :lol :lol I hate to quote spider-man but here I go.

"With great power comes great responsibility"

I'm sure you wont argue against the fact that we as a collective society of the United States have great power. But who gets the responsibility?  When someone gets mad about the Iraq war do you say "Oh, I'm sorry I was part of that collective that made the bad decision. I must take responsibility for it" Somehow I really doubt you do, you probably and justifiably point to the president. My question is in a collective society where power is wield by the masses, how do we deal with responsibility.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 06:33:36 PM
Come now, taxes and Hitler?  Godwin was right or bailout.gif

Except Goodwin was talking about usenet arguments about linux nerds. We are actually talking about politics, history and human philosophy.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 06:38:41 PM
He was talking about usenet, which as everyone knows is the original wound in the now septic topic of internet libertarianism.

You dont think its appropriate to bring up hitler when talking about governments and political philosophy? If you are reading the thread you will see its not the only analogy im bringing up either.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 06:43:51 PM
Then I won't talk about hitler anymore. But my point about the Iraq war is still valid.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Mandark on May 27, 2008, 11:10:34 PM
Profit is the incentive for everything whether you Libtards get that or not.  :lol :lol Somewhere in the chain someone is getting something out of it.

Hm, maybe you're right. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/26/AR2008052601620.html)
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 27, 2008, 11:37:41 PM
Profit is the incentive for everything whether you Libtards get that or not.  :lol :lol Somewhere in the chain someone is getting something out of it.

Hm, maybe you're right. (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2008/05/26/AR2008052601620.html)

Quote
Rep. Ron Paul (R-Tex.) has built a national following largely by preaching an isolationist foreign policy. Stick with your own kind, says the maverick presidential candidate.

 :lol :lol

That guy doesn't know anything about Ron Paul.

Quote
There are no laws prohibiting candidates from hiring relatives, though the Federal Election Commission does require family members to be qualified for the job and be paid the going rate for their work.

The title to the article is completely false. Nowhere does it say the FEC claims he is running a business and nowhere does it say he is breaking the law. Very biased article against Paul

Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Mandark on May 27, 2008, 11:54:13 PM
According to your own worldview, profit is the ultimate and only incentive.  So obviously Ron Paul's been working as a member of Congress to line his own pockets.
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on May 28, 2008, 12:05:32 AM
According to your own worldview, profit is the ultimate and only incentive.  So obviously Ron Paul's been working as a member of Congress to line his own pockets.

Profit is not always money. He probably has a personal interesting in freedom, I'll give you that.  :lol
Title: Re: Bob Barr is Winnar! and Prole reiterates that the PS3 is indeed NOT NASA
Post by: Mandark on May 28, 2008, 12:11:33 AM
According to your own worldview, profit is the ultimate and only incentive.  So obviously Ron Paul's been working as a member of Congress to line his own pockets.

Profit is not always money. He probably has a personal interesting in freedom, I'll give you that.  :lol

A non-monetary profit, eh?  So he's getting paid in hickory nuts (http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&safe=off&q=atticus+finch&btnG=Search)?