THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Eric P on June 09, 2008, 09:31:07 AM
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http://www.nytimes.com/2008/06/09/business/09gas.html?pagewanted=1&partner=rssnyt&emc=rss
TCHULA, Miss. — Gasoline prices reached a national average of $4 a gallon for the first time over the weekend, adding more strain to motorists across the country.
James Patterson for The New York Times
But the pain is not being felt uniformly. Across broad swaths of the South, Southwest and the upper Great Plains, the combination of low incomes, high gas prices and heavy dependence on pickup trucks and vans is putting an even tighter squeeze on family budgets.
Here in the Mississippi Delta, some farm workers are borrowing money from their bosses so they can fill their tanks and get to work. Some are switching jobs for shorter commutes.
People are giving up meat so they can buy fuel. Gasoline theft is rising. And drivers are running out of gas more often, leaving their cars by the side of the road until they can scrape together gas money.
“This crisis really impacts those who are at the economic margins of society, mostly in the rural areas and particularly parts of the Southeast,” said Fred Rozell, retail pricing director at the Oil Price Information Service, a fuel analysis firm. “These are people who have to decide between food and transportation.”
Economists say that despite widespread concern about gasoline prices, the nationwide impact of the oil crisis has so far been gentler than during the oil crises of the 1970s and 1980s, when shortages caused long lines at the pump, set off inflation and drove the economy into recession.
Cleveland Whiteside, who works with Mr. Clark and used to commute 30 miles a day, said his Jeep Cherokee was repossessed last month, because “I paid so much for gas to get to work I couldn’t pay my payments anymore.” His employer, Larry Clanton, has lent him a pickup truck so he can get to work.
“As gas prices rise, working less could be the economically rational choice,” said Tim Slack, a sociologist at Louisiana State University who studies rural poverty. “That would mean lower incomes for the poor and greater distance from the mainstream.”
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BOOBOBOB ITS EXPENSIVE IN EUROPE TOO!
Fuk off euros, you live on a thumbtack by comparison
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Dear god am I glad I don't have to drive 90 miles a day for 6.75/hr.
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yeah if I was still in AZ doing school with my retail job id be fucked x 10
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:piss :pimp
speculatorsInvestors :pimp :piss2
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So unfortunate.
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is this an FoC bait thread?
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Maybe this will open his eyes.
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Maybe this will open his eyes.
:lol
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I saw something really unusual over the weekend... I was driving by Costco, and the line for the gas pumps was a dozen cars deep on every pump. It was just crazy to see that prices have hit a point where people are obsessing over that last 20 cents per gallon.
Outsider of Costo, Gas is $4.45 for regular, here...
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I saw something really unusual over the weekend... I was driving by Costco, and the line for the gas pumps was a dozen cars deep on every pump. It was just crazy to see that prices have hit a point where people are obsessing over that last 20 cents per gallon.
Outsider of Costo, Gas is $4.45 for regular, here...
sweet christ
i'm in alexandria, va and i just paid 4.01 and i grit my teeth the entire time
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The pump near my house says $4.55 today. :-X
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in the past week my cost of getting to work has jumped by $10.
If i weren't making as much as I am now, or had other financial responsibilities (like kids) I have no idea how i'd make it work.
well i do know, but it would suck.
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How are pizza delivery people getting by? Has anyone reported on that?
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I have a friend who was a delivery boy at Dominos. He quit and now does janitorial stuff there. "It sucks but at least I'm not losing money."
Gas is $4.09 here. Around $4.56 in Detroit according to my grandma
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in the past week my cost of getting to work has jumped by $10.
If i weren't making as much as I am now, or had other financial responsibilities (like kids) I have no idea how i'd make it work.
well i do know, but it would suck.
Yeah, selling your children into slavery is never an easy thing to do, the only good part is one day, you can make more. :)
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Thank god my yearly work review is only a couple of weeks away. I need a raise.
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Too bad you don't work near Ypsi. You could rent a room at my place
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in the past week my cost of getting to work has jumped by $10.
If i weren't making as much as I am now, or had other financial responsibilities (like kids) I have no idea how i'd make it work.
well i do know, but it would suck.
Same. I can't pretend I'm not feeling it, but at least I'm making enough now that it's, "fuck you gas!", not "I wish I could eat meat."
I'm trying to imagine myself when I was living in Japan, making $20k a year and living in Tokyo. What would I do if the price of riding the train doubled? Probably start biking to work (an hour each way). Geez.
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can't we just cut through the foreplay and share a room? :interracial
:shh
maji will never know
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Too bad big oil/Detroit/feds killed the electric car! Who would complain about 100 miles on a single charge nowadays?
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Why would this be a bait thread for me?
Also, I haven't seen gas above 3.90 here. Ever
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Too bad big oil/Detroit/feds killed the electric car! Who would complain about 100 miles on a single charge nowadays?
well i would have concerns about a possible overload of existing infrastructure
imagine california's power issues or even the nyc black out or anything in the summer when everyone is running the AC full blast
then add on this tidbit
Overall, there were an estimated 247,421,120 registered passenger vehicles in the United States according to a 2005 DOT study
(i'm aware it wouldn't be an instantaneous switch)
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(although I believe - along with most people - that it's not opec or any other oil producing entity that have inflated prices to the level and at the rate that they're at right now)
Tell me Mr. economist, why are oil prices so high?
f i lived in a vacuum, I would want to be gouged away by oil prices until the market really really really pushed for renewable, cleaner alternatives.
Because no one is looking for those right now. ::)
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Basic economics says that when government restricts the supply of a good, the price will increase. Yet Congress continues to reject simple measures that could increase the supply of oil. For example, Congress refuses to allow reasonable, environmentally sensitive, offshore drilling. Congress also refuses to remove the numerous regulatory hurdles that add to the prohibitively expensive task of constructing new refineries. Building a new refinery requires billions of dollars in capital investment. It can take several years just to obtain the necessary federal permits. Even after the permits are obtained, construction of a refinery may still be delayed or even halted by frivolous lawsuits. It is no wonder that there has not been a new refinery constructed in the United States since 1976.
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That has to be McCain right? Paul has to know the gas tax shit is stupid
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Living in a city is AWESOME. New York is expensive, yeah, but with rising gas cost and rising food costs, having farms nearby and comprehensive mass transport offsets those.
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Living in a city is AWESOME. New York is expensive, yeah, but with rising gas cost and rising food costs, having farms nearby and comprehensive mass transport offsets those.
i eagerly await the nyc food riots.
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/5/53/Make_Room%21_Make_Room%21.jpg)
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We do need more refineries in the U.S.
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Living in a city is AWESOME.
word.
everything i could ever need is within a 20 minute walking radius.
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We need soylent green.
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Living in a city is AWESOME.
word.
everything i could ever need is within a 20 minute walking radius.
Agreed.
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living 4 minutes from work is awesome
:bow Ford F-150 :bow2
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That wouldn't solve anything!
Anyone see McCain's economic advisor on Scarborough this morning? It was ridiculous. She literally said that while Barack Obama and "some economists" don't like the gas tax holiday, voters do! And voters need a break - vote for McCain!
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living 4 minutes from work is awesome
:bow Ford F-150 :bow2
IF YOU LIVE FOUR MINUTES FROM WORK WHY DON'T YOU WALK, FATASS.
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four minutes walking distance?
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I just don't understand this crisis.
- People uneasy about stock market pouring money into commodities (ie oil, gold)
- Significant demand increase in developing world (China, India, Russia, Brazil)
- Geo-political unease (Isreal, Iran, Iraq, etc.)
The GDP grew at a 0.9% clip in the first quarter when gas prices were historically high. So, far the Bush rebate seems to be having a good effect on mitigating some of these high prices we're seeing now. So, if we can survive this summer with positive GDP growth for Q2, then I think think the US economy can withstand basically anything. However, there's been rumblings of another rebate which makes me think they believe things are turning sour quick. Unemployment grew to 5.5%, but that's largely due to the increase in employee cost (ie the latest minimum wage rise).
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Anyone see McCain's economic advisor on Scarborough this morning? It was ridiculous. She literally said that while Barack Obama and "some economists" don't like the gas tax holiday, voters do! And voters need a break - vote for McCain!
They've already passed a gas tax holiday here in GA. IIRC, its something like 3.9 cents per gallon.
Its incredibly stoopit considering the state has a ~$200 billion transportation shortfall over the next 30 years and Atlanta is in desperate need of better mass transit. This is prolly the first big fuck up Gubna Sonny has had.
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and now for the bu-bu-bu europe response
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/europe/7443257.stm
The drivers want the Spanish government to establish, by law, a minimum price for their services, and to ensure that haulage contracts better reflect the fluctuating cost of fuel, which has risen by more than 20% since the start of the year.
French fishermen from Mediterranean ports have, meanwhile, joined fleets from other French ports in suspending their action pending an EU summit in Brussels later this month.
However, the EU has insisted that any fuel subsidies would be illegal under European law and unsustainable in the long term.
EU rules state that the value-added tax (VAT) rate on fuel cannot be less than 15%. Member states are free to set VAT rates at or above that minimum.
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also, iran was suffering gas riots/protests already in previous years, so i'm curious what's going on there now
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living 4 minutes from work is awesome
:bow Ford F-150 :bow2
IF YOU LIVE FOUR MINUTES FROM WORK WHY DON'T YOU WALK, FATASS.
:o Damn woman, the gloves are off. You ok mups, I'll give you tender lovin. :-*
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It's going to be a real pain when I start back to school in August. 40 miles per day plus $4 per gallon of gas is a killer, even if I do get 30MPG.
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living 4 minutes from work is awesome
:bow Ford F-150 :bow2
IF YOU LIVE FOUR MINUTES FROM WORK WHY DON'T YOU WALK, FATASS.
:o Damn woman, the gloves are off. You ok mups, I'll give you tender lovin. :-*
she's just mad that i can sleep in so late and it costs a measly 4 bucks a week to get to work.
U MAD, SON?
gtfo, CG!
booyah!
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anything that puts more money into what's obviously a failing model is just backwards thinking IMO. It's like trying to stop a forest fire by planting more trees.
very nice turn of phrase there
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And just like that, Obama is pushing for another $50 billion rebate today.
The first rebate cost $175 billion and amounted to $600 per person. So, if the same methodolgy is applied to the one Obama is proposing, then it'll amount to a $171 rebate for every person.
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IF ONLY OUR DOLLARS WERE MADE OF GOLD
IN OUR OIL-DARKEST HOUR, WHERE IS THE MAGIC OF RON PAUL?
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living 4 minutes from work is awesome
:bow Ford F-150 :bow2
IF YOU LIVE FOUR MINUTES FROM WORK WHY DON'T YOU WALK, FATASS.
:o Damn woman, the gloves are off. You ok mups, I'll give you tender lovin. :-*
she's just mad that i can sleep in so late and it costs a measly 4 bucks a week to get to work.
U MAD, SON?
gtfo, CG!
booyah!
I shouldn't have doubted your tenacity! :bow
:punch Mups :punch
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How are pizza delivery people getting by? Has anyone reported on that?
bububuh I don't tip delivery drivers, it's their JOB to bring me pizza
Like I've been saying for two years, pretty soon no one is going to deliver pizza, because the tips don't cover wear/tear + gas. Not even close.
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Sucks for people who live out there. I figure in the long term, people in the suburbs can adjust by planning for more density (http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/story/2008/05/28/ST2008052803268.html) but that's not really an option in the country.
FoC's demand for more drilling and sd's shot at the minimum wage are dumb, but we all know that.
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17 MPG + 93 AKR + $4.2X/gallon = annoying.
At least I ride in style.
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IF ONLY OUR DOLLARS WERE MADE OF GOLD
IN OUR OIL-DARKEST HOUR, WHERE IS THE MAGIC OF RON PAUL?
dr paul is currently training in the gold mines of nepaul to gain the strength he needs to save us all
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back to Portland on Wednesday 8)
where this appears to have increased my transit costs by, uh, 2 dollars a month (http://trimet.org/fares/index.htm)
</self-righteous petit-bourgeois asshole> :ussrcry
I'm sure I'll pay for it in food prices and other ways, though.
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You'll pay for it in liberal guilt, knowing that you benefit from and are quietly complicit in the crimes of the imperialist-capitalist system!
Also dairy products.
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A friend of mine just bought a motorcycle, $1900 with 1000 miles on it. 50-60mpg.
I'm busily pouring money into a car that gets like 14mpg, I think I've got something mixed up.
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I'm buying a scooter. :-*
Seriously man, when Scenester laid down the price of his hog I almost sold my car and got one right away. :mrt
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It's $1.35 Canadian a litre here by me which translates to $5.01 a gallon. Unbelievable. I'm going to be trapped in the woods a lot this summer.
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I'm buying a scooter. :-*
I want one! :o
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WHAT'S WITH ALL THE RECENT SCOOTER TALK?
SCOOT SCOOT
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WHAT'S WITH ALL THE RECENT SCOOTER TALK?
SCOOT SCOOT
I'm just buying roller skates and a grappling hook.
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WHAT'S WITH ALL THE RECENT SCOOTER TALK?
SCOOT SCOOT
I'm just buying roller skates and a grappling hook.
You're like the MacGuyver of commuting. :bow
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WHAT'S WITH ALL THE RECENT SCOOTER TALK?
SCOOT SCOOT
I'm just buying roller skates and a grappling hook.
damn that's a brilliant idea
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i'd totally get a scooter, have no place to park it though.
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i'd totally get a scooter, have no place to park it though.
LOL
yes you do
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lol i heard some people talking about the gas tax at the pump a few minutes ago
lady: wow when is bush going to pass the gas tax bill? i can't take these prices anymore
old lady: you won't save any money, it's a scam
lady: haha sounds like a conspiracy. of course i'll save money, i work at Applebees
McCain landslide confirmed :-\
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:piss taxes :piss2
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speculators fucking shit up again?
this has been my take on things since the start of this run up. They can't get their guaranteed returns in the stock market, real estate, bond markets, or crazy derivatives/currency markets anymore. So they've moved on to commodities. They'll bust that bubble too.
The real problem is, as it was in the 90s stock market and the real estate bubble, too much money (lent on margin) with not enough diversified investment vehicles to deliever the ridiculously high expected returns that some of these companies expect. Eventually things will work themselves out once enough funds go tits up due to massive overleveraging and bad risk assessment due to fund manager groupthink.
The commodities market is also an exceptionally dangerous area to be running up via speculation, as its effect of overall government destability in marginal countries is very high it has a tangible effect of dragging down economic growth (thus hurting other investment vehicles in the process).
Hopefully this will be the last big bubble that happens. It's high time for a rectal suppository of real regulation/disclosure so people can actually see what a tower of cards some of these funds are built on.
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We do need more refineries in the U.S.
I live less then an hour from a refinery and gas is still $4.44 a gallon. Never before have I been so happy to be driving a rinky-dink, ugly and fuel efficient car then I am now.
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We do need more refineries in the U.S.
I live less then an hour from a refinery and gas is still $4.44 a gallon. Never before have I been so happy to be driving a rinky-dink, ugly and fuel efficient car then I am now.
[/b]
same. I laugh when people talk about how their SUV is one of the more fuel-efficient ones.
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You proximity to a refinery doesn't mean anything.
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this has been my take on things since the start of this run up. They can't get their guaranteed returns in the stock market, real estate, bond markets, or crazy derivatives/currency markets anymore. So they've moved on to commodities. They'll bust that bubble too.
The real problem is, as it was in the 90s stock market and the real estate bubble, too much money (lent on margin) with not enough diversified investment vehicles to deliever the ridiculously high expected returns that some of these companies expect. Eventually things will work themselves out once enough funds go tits up due to massive overleveraging and bad risk assessment due to fund manager groupthink.
The commodities market is also an exceptionally dangerous area to be running up via speculation, as its effect of overall government destability in marginal countries is very high it has a tangible effect of dragging down economic growth (thus hurting other investment vehicles in the process).
Hopefully this will be the last big bubble that happens. It's high time for a rectal suppository of real regulation/disclosure so people can actually see what a tower of cards some of these funds are built on.
:bow :bow frag with the REAL TALK :bow2 :bow2
time to break some knuckles on the hand of the free market
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invisible hand, meet the invisible ruler
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sd's shot at the minimum wage are dumb, but we all know that.
Workers 25 and older - unemployment rose only 0.2%
Workers 20-24 - unemployment rose 1.5%
Teenaged workers - unemployment rose a whopping 3.3%.
Mandark: "Stats Lie"
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sd's shot at the minimum wage are dumb, but we all know that.
Workers 25 and older - unemployment rose only 0.2%
Workers 20-24 - unemployment rose 1.5%
Teenaged workers - unemployment rose a whopping 3.3%.
Mandark: "Stats Lie"
Don't all economic downturns disproportionately hit people with the least amount of education, training, and job experience?
edit:
Here's an article from January 2002 reporting that young adults were hit hardest during the 2001 economic downturn: http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-1332176_ITM (http://goliath.ecnext.com/coms2/summary_0199-1332176_ITM)
And the minimum wage wasn't raised in 2001.
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that we know of
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Malek: Generally, yeah. Unemployment in the black population went up twice the rate of the average population. Also the labor participation rate went up .2%, and the official unemployment stat uses active job-seekers as the denominator.
That's one way crappy job growth can be masked. If people just stop looking it keeps the unemployment rate artificially low.
Also, quick scan of the BLS shows that labor costs are rising at the same rate or slower than the last few years.
Genghis: I thought of that, but I think these are meant to be seasonally adjusted stats. I'm not sure, though.
edit: A-ha!
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http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aM7tm5F_ezKs&refer=home[/url]
seems others agree
The other way to look at it is that they're "swelling the labor pool" because wages are higher and will get even higher July 24th.
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I live in Iowa.
My friends that drove F-150s are now desperately trying to unload them. One just bought a new F-150 last year for $30,000 and the highest offer someone has made on his truck is $7,500, which isn't even close to covering the final amount he owes. He was a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow for buying such an expensive truck but he is really freaking out over how bad the situation is. Nobody wants to buy pick up trucks in the Midwest, which you know means something very wrong is going on.
The only positive is that excess driving is cut considerably. What was once jammed traffic intersections are now a lot more navigable. There are far less SUVs on the road.
Gas around my area is about $3.80-$3.90 for 89.
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Wow, it's like $4.35 for 89 here.
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Anecdotally, there were significantly less cars on the major road outside my apartment this weekend. It was actually kind of eerie.
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I am on the scoot bandwagon
(http://www.scooterschina.com/mopeds/moped-scooter1.jpg)
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Gas near my house went up in the middle of the day to $4.66 :lol
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$5 gas by August!
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yeah it'll hit $5 this summer in california at least.
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$4.69 where I live. Last week it was $4.48. Last month it was $3.90
I hate California.
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Why would this be a bait thread for me?
Also, I haven't seen gas above 3.90 here. Ever
...and obviously it will never ever ever go any higher! So you're safe!
Hell, i bet there are OCEANS full of the stuff that they just haven't bothered to drill for yet.
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Fuck buying a car, I'll stick to being a hermit 8)
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I'm just happy I live in an island where private transportation isn't just frowned on, it's downright illegal to own any form of motorized transport that relies on fossil fuels for combustion. I also contribute less to humankind's global carbon footprint.
Public transportation is so fantastically great, convenient and efficient here, it is cheaper and faster to go places with it than with your own car.
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BOOBOBOB ITS EXPENSIVE IN EUROPE TOO!
Fuk off euros, you live on a thumbtack by comparison
The Euro argument annoyes me so f'n much. I wanted to stab the guy on GAF that laughed at Americans and the fact that their complaining (also stating that hes reveling in their plight). Disgusting.
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My wife and I make dinner at home 1 more night a week then we used. The money we save doing that makes up for the extra we're putting in our cars for gas. Problem solved.
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Wow, it's like $4.35 for 89 here.
I know, it is surprising, especially considering how about half of Iowa currently is flooded.
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Today at a full serve gas station the guy pumping my gas bumped up the price 5 cents while I was sitting there.
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I'm just happy I live in an island where private transportation isn't just frowned on, it's downright illegal to own any form of motorized transport that relies on fossil fuels for combustion. I also contribute less to humankind's global carbon footprint.
Public transportation is so fantastically great, convenient and efficient here, it is cheaper and faster to go places with it than with your own car.
Where do you live? (So we can stalk and rape you.) :-*
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Why would this be a bait thread for me?
Also, I haven't seen gas above 3.90 here. Ever
...and obviously it will never ever ever go any higher! So you're safe!
Hell, i bet there are OCEANS full of the stuff that they just haven't bothered to drill for yet.
Joke post? There is still lots of oil to be had with oil shale, tar sands, coal conversion, etc.
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Yeah, there's something like 4x the reserves of Saudi Arabia in the Rocky Mountains. Its just not cost efficient to extract it yet.
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I feel bad for all the big truck, SUV, but not Hummer owners. Americans were led to believe that bigger was safer. Who doesn't want to protect their family with a bigger vehicle.
I remember about 9 years ago in my no w wifes Jeep Cherokee filling up at $0.99/gal thinking that I would never see that again.
The market on big vehicle must have become saturated enough that a switch was flipped.
"Time to rape the guzzler owners." There is enough out there since SUV's were mainstream. I may be a candidate for a tinfoil hat, but this all seams planned. This all seam like it was planned from the start by oil men "telling" car manufactures what to market for cheap.
The American people have been bamboozled. But I'm glad I made the right choices for my family. Even if my costs do rise somewhat.
I've been driving for more than half my life and I've never seen what is going on today, gas price wise. ::)
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Glad I'm not alone.
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still not? we need to get some supermassive solar powered machines to do the extracting for us. OH GOD SAVE US IBM, YOU MASTERS OF TECHNOLOGY
I believe its basically like the tar sands in Canada. Except, unlike being on the surface, its buried under the Rocky Mountains. Hence, too expensive to get to.
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Yeah, there's something like 4x the reserves of Saudi Arabia in the Rocky Mountains. Its just not cost efficient to extract it yet.
How high do you think the price of gas will be by the time it IS cost-efficient to extract this? Are we likely to get super-efficient technologically, or just wait for prices to rise high enough that it's worth extracting it even at an exorbitant cost? I'm betting on the former. In other words, this doesn't solve any of the immediate problems. Also, the Rocky Mountains are kind of nice. It might be nice to keep all those eagles and stuff if we can.
I'm not suggesting that there is no more oil in the world; I am ridiculing the attitude that because gas prices haven't been a problem for one person in one area, that the situation is somehow not a problem on a global, historical scale. The knock-on effects of gas prices are enormous. If you don't get hit at the gas pump, you'll still get hit as your food prices rise, for example. The cost of making and transporting everything go up.