THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: demi on August 05, 2008, 05:57:10 PM

Title: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 05:57:10 PM
I'm totally buying this. It's so pretty.

Update: I totally did NOT buy it, because Blow is a filthy hippie distinguished mentally-challenged fellow
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 05:59:29 PM
Maybe I can afford 1200 points
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 06:00:58 PM
Game looks really ugly.  Almost like if someone used DKC as the basis to make an artsy game.  I will try the demo to see if the core gameplay isn't shit, and it turns out positive, I will buy it for all the various time gimmick stuff they put in it.  It is kind of like with LBP and everyone getting excited about the creation aspect, but all that would be nil if the core gameplay was bad.  Then again I am really excited for LBP, so I am just being a hypocrite here.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 05, 2008, 06:02:20 PM
demo better be good.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 06:02:27 PM
I have to support Microsoft. They are the best company ever.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 05, 2008, 06:04:21 PM
I have to support Microsoft. They are the best company ever.
but they lied!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 06:05:07 PM
Would you ruin your relationship with someone because they lied, even if they were deliciously hot and offered you sex all the time?

No, you wouldn't. Priorities, man.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 06:06:55 PM
Good sex is the quickest. Those 5 minute jerkoff sessions? Usually those feel pretty good. That's what playing an Xbox game is like.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: JustinP on August 05, 2008, 06:10:50 PM
doesn't look too good, to be honest.  looks like a lot of other student games.  concept is interesting but i haven't seen any footage that really sells it to me.  will play it on PC if it ends up being worth it. 
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 06:20:21 PM
doesn't look too good, to be honest.  looks like a lot of other student games.  concept is interesting but i haven't seen any footage that really sells it to me.  will play it on PC if it ends up being worth it. 

I think you're just jealous Jonathan Blow is a more successful indie developer than you. At least he will be a couple dollars richer when I buy his game. Where is yours? You mad?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: JustinP on August 05, 2008, 06:22:39 PM
::) what an amazing surprise!
:lol i wouldn't buy this on PSN either.  games like galaga legions and castle crashers look great to me.  this one doesn't.  go cry about it.  
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 05, 2008, 07:38:32 PM
ITT: filthy poors
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 08:06:41 PM
I think you're just jealous Jonathan Blow is a more successful indie developer than you. At least he will be a couple dollars richer when I buy his game. Where is yours? You mad?

Curious about who this Jonathan Blow guy is and why this Braid game, which looks to be a flash game, has apparently taken more than two years to complete, so I looked it up on wikipedia.  From wikipedia I found a website with some of his old games.  Here is one of those games:

Quote
Painter
One day I was thinking about what kind of game I would make for Nintendo's upcoming Revolution console, and I thought it might be neat to use the controller as a paintbrush to paint pictures on the screen.  That idea by itself is not enough to make a game.  (Why are you painting pitcures?)  So I plugged in an old idea I had floating around, which is that there are different critics with contradictory aesthetics who judge your painting, and you try to construct things that please enough of them to get by.

Pokemon Snap meets Microsoft Paint.  BRILLIANT!

Quote
Oracle Billiards
This is about what it might be like to see the future, and how that might change a game like billiards.

AMAZING!

And his thoughts on achievements:

Quote
He said he believed such games were exploitative of players by using a simple reward for suffering schema to keep them in front of their consoles.

SUCCESS!

I will be buying this if Braid is just a series of M. Night Shyamalan-like twists with time like those fine ideas are.  I still think that Braid is an ugly game that only Rare would be happy slapping its name on, well, until now that is.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Sho Nuff on August 05, 2008, 08:26:42 PM
Jonathan Blow is a super hippie from the future who talks too much, but at least he managed to ship a game for once
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 05, 2008, 08:30:37 PM
He's an indie dev, swaggaz, not Miyamoto.

Your last quote isn't even about achievemenets, either.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 08:37:03 PM
Yeah, and he seems to have pretty cool ideas, just doesn't follow through with them.  Braid seems like it is the follow through.  It got me more excited than seeing any ugly screen shot or ugly video of the game ever would.

And yeah, the quote is about WoW, but it more or less works.  Plus I am trying to get a job at Kotaku, so I need to practice on sensationalist stories..
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Sho Nuff on August 05, 2008, 09:00:03 PM
Yeah, and he seems to have pretty cool ideas, just doesn't follow through with them.  Braid seems like it is the follow through.  It got me more excited than seeing any ugly screen shot or ugly video of the game ever would.

And yeah, the quote is about WoW, but it more or less works.  Plus I am trying to get a job at Kotaku, so I need to practice on sensationalist stories..

Kotaku pays?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 09:04:36 PM
The pay is whatever developers give us to praise their game, and depending on how long you have been there you can get either 1, 3, or 5  hours of watching Brian Crecente comb his hair.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Sho Nuff on August 05, 2008, 09:07:30 PM
Didn't you see the Dark Knight? Never do something you're good at for free
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 09:31:50 PM
It is better than working at 1up.  Every week they give you an envelope that either says someone new is getting hired, or you are getting fired.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 05, 2008, 09:55:46 PM
Almost def buying, people who act like this doesnt' look awesome are shitstains
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 10:01:39 PM
Gameplay looks interesting, and after watching the gameplay demo it looks interesting, but the actual style to the graphics look terrible.  I'm guessing just as you people who like it can't understand why I don't like it, I feel the opposite way about you.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 10:22:25 PM
Nah, I was just joking around.  I already have a nice job where I can spend my time on a computer.  Thanks anyway.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on August 05, 2008, 10:38:13 PM
Braid is this year's Portal.  Get on the hype train today!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: jiji on August 05, 2008, 10:45:14 PM
Braid is this year's Portal.  Get on the hype train today!

please no :(

I like the presentation a lot, honest, and the solution to the last puzzle in world 2 is pretty nifty, but there's little from what I've seen in videos that hasn't been done before. It's a Mario game with time gimmicks and no deaths. I'm sure the full game is perfectly good, but the hype cloud around this one is noxious.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 05, 2008, 10:50:12 PM
Braid is this year's Portal.  Get on the hype train today!

Realistically if that was a 'this years Portal', it would probably be Mirror's Edge.

To kill the time waiting for the game, try out these flash games:

http://www.kongregate.com/games/Scarybug/chronotron
http://www.kongregate.com/games/ArmorGames/shift

They do similar time/shifting stuff with the world.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 05, 2008, 10:51:40 PM
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=245#comments

Quote
My feeling was that Microsoft would price the game at 1200 no matter what I said; however, I never pushed them to that point. Late last week, Microsoft and I had a conversation where we talked about a bunch of issues and I agreed on the 1200 point price.

There are good reasons why I picked 1200 instead of 800 (I thought about writing them up today, but I’m not sure it’s really appropriate; I might, though, tonight. We’ll see how I feel about it later.)

The Reader’s Digest version is, I would have been perfectly happy with a launch price of 800 points. At 1200 points I am less happy, but I am okay with it.

Quote
Yeah. And I am not trying to claim I made the right decision — I have no idea what the right decision was, and we won’t know next week either (since no matter how high or low the sales are, they always could have been only a little higher, or almost as low, at $10).

And again, I don’t know if I would have been able to convince Microsoft to release the game at 800 points anyway, so it seemed my best move was to make the agreement and keep a good relationship with them.

If it were just a matter of my own money, I wouldn’t care so much, but I ran out of money while developing Braid and had to borrow a lot — so I owe people a lot of money. That makes the nature of the decision a little different.

price spinning.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 05, 2008, 11:43:31 PM
why not somewhere between 800 to 1200 points? like 1000. makes too much sense!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 06, 2008, 12:40:36 AM
Did you read some of Blow's latest comments? Dude is a huge crybaby

Quote
There is a significant possibility that Braid would have been the next Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil (critically acclaimed but nobody played it), even at $10. If that happens at $10 then I am in debt and have to get a job and can’t make games any more. If that happens at $15, maybe I can still make games. That is the difference.

OH NO HE MAY HAVE TO GET A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 06, 2008, 01:09:58 AM
Did you read some of Blow's latest comments? Dude is a huge crybaby

Quote
There is a significant possibility that Braid would have been the next Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil (critically acclaimed but nobody played it), even at $10. If that happens at $10 then I am in debt and have to get a job and can’t make games any more. If that happens at $15, maybe I can still make games. That is the difference.

OH NO HE MAY HAVE TO GET A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

getting a second job, he must want a ps3
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 06, 2008, 01:24:43 AM
Did you read some of Blow's latest comments? Dude is a huge crybaby

Quote
There is a significant possibility that Braid would have been the next Psychonauts or Beyond Good and Evil (critically acclaimed but nobody played it), even at $10. If that happens at $10 then I am in debt and have to get a job and can’t make games any more. If that happens at $15, maybe I can still make games. That is the difference.

OH NO HE MAY HAVE TO GET A JOB!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

This guy spins on a level that only people like Dyack can compete with.

I do feel a bit sad that Michel Ancel and Tim Schafer ended up becoming poor after their games didn't become huge sellers.  I heard Tim Schafer was sucking anus down in Jersey in hopes of making another game, and I think Ancel is selling blow.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 06, 2008, 01:48:13 AM
not really, all the reviews are in his favor.

and he was giving examples of games not aligning himself with these two.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 06, 2008, 02:14:40 AM
3hrs isnt it?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 06, 2008, 04:13:39 AM
http://majornelson.com/archive/2008/08/06/arcade-braid.aspx

it's up.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Trent Dole on August 06, 2008, 04:36:18 AM
This is kinda neat and trippy, I dunno if I'd throw $15 at it though.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 06, 2008, 06:56:51 AM
I have NFI but it's driving me insane :maf

OK I got it but I'm not sure this is worth 1200pts. It's charming and I adore the music but I just dont know...
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 06, 2008, 07:23:27 AM
I loved world 4. I'm still on the fence though, I just wonder how long it would keep me interested. It just looks and sounds beautiful.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: dark1x on August 06, 2008, 07:50:08 AM
So, how are the actual core mechanics?  You know, running, jumping and all that?  Does it feel solid?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 06, 2008, 08:03:36 AM
I thought the controls were fine.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 06, 2008, 09:27:24 AM
This game is fantastic.  I played the demo for about 5 or 10 minutes before buying the full thing.  I still have my problems with the actual main character look, but the backgrounds look much better on my TV rather than a video on my PC.  Also, the music is amazing.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 06, 2008, 09:30:35 AM
I'm not even gonna buy it, I want this asshole to get a fucking job like he oh so despises
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 06, 2008, 10:13:30 AM
Well glad I played the demo, saved me $15

Fuck off Blow, enjoy your new job
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Grecco on August 06, 2008, 01:02:38 PM
Meh the gameplay is neat but the story is emo hot topic garbage.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 06, 2008, 01:07:49 PM
Enjoying this game mucho. Didn't do so well at getting puzzle pieces in world 4 though. World 3 is my most successful so far.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 06, 2008, 01:33:40 PM
Meh the gameplay is neat but the story is emo hot topic garbage.

Yeah it is.  I am enjoying it, but I would put it on the level of something like Lost Winds or something.  I'm on world 6 and 1-5 are 100%.  Two times I asked for help on gaf, but both times I figured it out myself.  This game is pretty bad at actually explaining to you what the extend of your powers are.  That is cool in the sense that you need to figure it out for yourself, but it is also a bit annoying.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 06, 2008, 01:51:23 PM
I'm not getting what to do in one part of the first world - it's the one with the two sets of cloud cannons, an enemy, and nothing else. There are two puzzle pieces, one above the area exit door and another on a ledge up above it (it's where the puzzle portrait appears).

Last two puzzles for the world, and I don't see what I even have to interact with. There must be something obvious I'm overlooking.


Yea swaggaz, I'm done with all 6 worlds with about half the pieces in the last couple. I do like that they don't give you info screens, but sometimes I'd be in the last part of a world and just realized I could do some move or what have you. It's good for replay value, doesn't bother me too much. This first world though, I have almost no abilities and I'm standing here again :spin


btw, you can use LB and RB to speed up time when holding X


edit: oh holy shit :rofl :rofl
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 06, 2008, 01:55:49 PM
You have to use the painting itself. The "platform" is the table in the painting, you have to go into the painting and move it to the very top. You can stand on it. Use it to jump to the first piece, then go back and move the platform to get the walking thing on it, then move the painting so the enemy falls, then simply jump on it and get the final piece.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 06, 2008, 01:57:31 PM
Yea, I just got it, haha
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Vrolokus on August 06, 2008, 03:38:40 PM
I'm probably about halfway through, and love it.  I'm concerned about replayability naturally (once you know how to do each puzzle, you've exhausted the novelty), but it really is a unique, well-designed game.

It drives me nuts to read posts at pits like GameFAQs on how it's a "SMB ripoff" and should've been a couple dollars less... no doubt from people who have 1000/1000 points out of Quake IV and a drawing of Nariko on their Trapper Keeper.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 06, 2008, 04:00:30 PM
Complete the game.  Every puzzle piece and all that.  This may be the first game I get all achievement points in.  Just gotta see how hard the speed run stuff is.

Buy it.  It is worth it.  Blow still needs to get a job.

Actually, screw that, I'm not gonna try and beat this game in 45 minutes.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Grecco on August 06, 2008, 05:32:30 PM
I'm probably about halfway through, and love it.  I'm concerned about replayability naturally (once you know how to do each puzzle, you've exhausted the novelty), but it really is a unique, well-designed game.

It drives me nuts to read posts at pits like GameFAQs on how it's a "SMB ripoff" and should've been a couple dollars less... no doubt from people who have 1000/1000 points out of Quake IV and a drawing of Nariko on their Trapper Keeper.

Im not calling it SMB Ripoffs i have no idea who Nariko is

but admitedly i do have Q4 and that cost me less than what This game would cost me :p
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Vrolokus on August 06, 2008, 06:22:03 PM
i do have Q4 and that cost me less than what This game would cost me :p

Braid is more, but hey: sometimes, you get what you pay for.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Bildi on August 06, 2008, 06:59:30 PM
Just yesterday I was feeling the urge to buy something on XBLA but nothing tickled my pickle.  I'm so glad I didn't get anything because this sounds really good.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Grecco on August 06, 2008, 09:08:16 PM
Do you get an upgrade later on? Theres some pieces in World 2 i cant get in the demo for the life of me
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 06, 2008, 09:16:54 PM
You never get upgrades.  There is always a solution.  Unlike Portal where you can find multiple solutions, this game is stingy and only has one solution.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Grecco on August 06, 2008, 09:22:52 PM
Im missing two of the puzzle pieces from World 2 and have no idea how to get them. The last one in the Cloud Cannons and the last one in the hunt puzzle. I wanna see if i can finish it then.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Mrbob on August 06, 2008, 09:26:50 PM
Played the demo, didn't care for it.  I was pretty pumped to play the game with all the positive hype.  I'll pass and wait on the next Xbox Live savior, Castle Crashers. 
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 07, 2008, 12:12:55 AM
Yea you can definitely get all the pieces in world 2 without any new abilities. I don't remember how to do each of them of fthe top of my head, sorry.

Do you need to get every single puzzle piece in order to get to the end of the game?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 12:18:20 AM
hey did you bother to read my post i made when you asked the SAME QUESTION

for the HUNT level you kill the first goomba, climb the ladder, AVOID the second goomba, kill the third, climb the second ladder, kill the fourth, then jump down ON the second goomba - this boosts you up to the ledge, then you can kill the last two
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 07, 2008, 12:19:30 AM
Oh, I forgot world 2 is really world 1
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Grecco on August 07, 2008, 12:23:39 AM
I actually didnt. Felt really stupid when i solved them by myself actually. And Stupider now since i missed your post.

My apologies Demi :dur
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 12:27:09 AM
Do you need to get every single puzzle piece in order to get to the end of the game?

Yes.  Struggle through the bullshit World that is World 6, collect all the puzzle pieces, do all that shit.  In the end, it is worth it.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 07, 2008, 12:38:13 AM
You don't like World 6? I enjoyed it.

I have the biggest problem getting my head around the one where right and left are locked to time.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 12:58:27 AM
That was actually really easy with the exception of one level.  Since everything is based around your movement, the objective is more or less already obvious since you control the world for the most part.

World 6 had my least favorite mechanic, not to mention everything went way too slow when you used it.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 07, 2008, 01:03:38 AM
Maybe I'll feel differently about it when I go back for puzzle pieces, I just don't have much fun with the mechanic. You're probaly right about it being easier.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 07, 2008, 01:09:43 AM
game was okay for two hours but I'm not really feeling like going back and getting All The Puzzle Pieces

I full cleared the first two worlds, which was okay, and I like the "duplication" world so I might full clear it, but the left-right time movement bullshit is like my least favorite RPG puzzles (you move, they move, get into a corner to "desync" their movements, etc.)

Not really worth 1200. Indie game total, good idea bad execution. In conclusion: get a job.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: pilonv1 on August 07, 2008, 01:16:27 AM
glad i skipped this
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 01:17:29 AM
It is worth going back and getting all the puzzle pieces.  The only slight spoiler I will really say is:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
You are missing out on probably the best part of the game.  There is a reason you started on World 2.
[close]

Maybe I'll feel differently about it when I go back for puzzle pieces, I just don't have much fun with the mechanic. You're probaly right about it being easier.

I didn't have fun with the mechanic either, just those puzzles were easy is all.  I think the most fun mechanic was your shadow/past self.  There was another XBLA game that showed off something similar, but to a much larger degree.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 01:19:06 AM
Just wait until its on PC then we can all play it FOR FREE

Welcome to reality, Mr. Blow
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 01:20:54 AM
So, did you play the game or not? your post somehow leads me to believe you finished it completely.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 01:23:10 AM
The demo was pretty much 1/4 the game

I played enough
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 07, 2008, 01:23:17 AM
It is worth going back and getting all the puzzle pieces.  The only slight spoiler I will really say is:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
You are missing out on probably the best part of the game.  There is a reason you started on World 2.
[close]

Hmm...the shadow world I'd enjoy, and the slow-time puzzles weren't so hard (just somewhat tedious)

I might FAQ the left-right world though, stupid bullshit
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 07, 2008, 01:27:35 AM
http://braid-game.com/walkthrough/walkthrough.html

this should do.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 01:29:28 AM
http://braid-game.com/walkthrough/walkthrough.html

this should do.

You did click the second page right? :lol
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 01:32:05 AM
Quote
They don't require you to do anything random; they don't require guessing. They don't require trial and error. The solutions tend to be simple and natural. They flow directly from the rules of gameplay in each world.

That is bullshit.

Quote
Braid does not have a linear story the way most games do, so Getting To The End is not necessarily what you would expect. The idea of "beating the game" does not apply so much, here. Braid is about the journey, not the destination.

This is also a lie.

Whoever wrote that page clearly hasn't played this game.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 07, 2008, 01:32:45 AM
Whoever wrote that page clearly hasn't played this game.

...what
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 01:36:34 AM
Whoever wrote it, be it Blow or some other guy, either hasn't played the game or is so damn pretentious that they would make up false information to put on the walkthrough.

If Blow did actually write that, then he is truly the M. Night Shyamalan for games. 
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: drohne on August 07, 2008, 03:00:32 AM
so this is kind of amazing. through the first two worlds the puzzles are clever without inducing migraine. the watercolor visuals, the sort of chamber music soundtrack and the way it accentuates the shock of rewinding, the way the completed jigsaw puzzles show up in the 'hub'

spoiler (click to show/hide)
using the semicompleted jigsaw puzzle to get the last puzzle piece in world two -- zomg
[close]

the snippets of story are a little embarrassing somehow, but hey, this isn't a novel

yeah. love it, anyway -- hope the puzzles don't cross that headache line, as these games usually do. echochrome flashbacks. shudder
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 07, 2008, 03:03:57 AM
Blow said he normally wouldn't be happy to get a 9/10 score, but since it's from Edge he'll let it slide

he also thinks his story is amazing
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 07, 2008, 03:18:50 AM
http://braid-game.com/walkthrough/walkthrough.html

this should do.

You did click the second page right? :lol
...

wow :lol
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: homborg on August 07, 2008, 03:19:12 AM
Blow said he normally wouldn't be happy to get a 9/10 score, but since it's from Edge he'll let it slide

he also thinks his story is amazing

he looks and sounds like denis dyack!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 03:32:09 AM
(http://www.experimental-gameplay.org/jb.jpg)

thanks for putting food on my plate and not making me get a filthy job like you disgusting cretins
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: TVC15 on August 07, 2008, 04:22:35 AM
For 1200 points, I'm not very impressed.  Bomba confirmed.  Demi right again.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 04:27:52 AM
To think I was almost swindled into buying this... sham

Phew, that'll teach me. At least Bionic Commando is next week.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: MCD on August 07, 2008, 04:29:50 AM
castle crashers better not be another overpriced disappointment.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: drohne on August 07, 2008, 04:33:02 AM
just finished world 4 -- the solution to the 'hunt' room is fuckin awesome
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 07, 2008, 06:25:14 AM
just solved world 5 -- some of those stumped me for a while. i can't recall that i've ever been so hooked on a puzzle game of this kind. they're usually kind of tiring. if i try to do world 6 tonight i'm not going to get any sleep...MUST BE STRONG AND SAVE IT FOR TOMORROW
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 07, 2008, 07:57:34 AM
I finished world 2 and 3 yesterday and really loved world 2's music. I have heard World 4 is major ass though...but I still am enjoying the game.

Unfortunately I bought PJ Eden at the same time and PJ Eden is so much more addictive. Luckily Braid is like 2 hours long or something so I can just finish that up.

While I liked world 2's "puzzle" (lol), the game not telling you at ALL that you could do that (and you couldn't do it with any other piece) was absolutely bullshit.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 09:49:22 AM
Blow said he normally wouldn't be happy to get a 9/10 score, but since it's from Edge he'll let it slide

he also thinks his story is amazing

Considering that
spoiler (click to show/hide)
The 'story' of the game is only really present in the last 10 minutes, but still good, I won't let him slide with that BS statement.
[close]

This guy really likes to spin bullshit to make himself seem like a genius.

Braid is great, but I don't think it is the best anything ever.  It is a high quality flash game.  I don't have a problem with that and hope that there are more games like it, because I did really enjoy it, but yeah.  Braid probably provided a bit more enjoyment than this, but this is free: Karoshi (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=277008)

While I liked world 2's "puzzle" (lol), the game not telling you at ALL that you could do that (and you couldn't do it with any other piece) was absolutely bullshit.

And this is exactly why a statement like:

Quote
They don't require you to do anything random; they don't require guessing. They don't require trial and error. The solutions tend to be simple and natural. They flow directly from the rules of gameplay in each world.

Is complete bullshit.  The game will often spring random, new 'rules' on you after it has already established the principles of what you can and can't do.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 10:51:24 AM
I don't care much about the price of a game too much if it turns out to be enjoyable.  I will complain about it, sure, but if the demo turns out fun then I will give up my money.

btw, are there any sales for MS point card right now? I am down to like 600 or so after Braid.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 07, 2008, 11:05:35 AM
Castle Crashers has to avoid the alien hominid grindy syndrome to be really good I think. Duckroll has pointed out to me that it looks like the baddies have some ridiculous amount of HP.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 07, 2008, 12:20:45 PM
World 4 is destroying me. I need a youtube or something.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 01:35:21 PM
Any help you need, ask away.  According to Blow, this would ruin the game experience, but he doesn't know shit.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 02:38:51 PM
I'll check it out.  I'm gonna need one for Castle Crashers, so I don't need to worry for another week or two.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: pilonv1 on August 07, 2008, 08:59:34 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 07, 2008, 09:14:24 PM
I was thinking about getting this, but I didn't realize my purchase was actually a $15 donation to the Adopt a Hippie Foundation. Thanks for warning me, EB.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 09:17:39 PM
Blow talks about the price cut, now in video form: http://gamevideos.com/video/id/20618

And expect Braid to be on the 1upshow tomorrow. 
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Grecco on August 07, 2008, 09:35:00 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie

I gotta admit im kinda jelous. I wanna play the full game but i dont wanna pay full price for it. and i still think the story is garbage.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
and it seems it gets worse each level in
[close]
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 09:38:33 PM
Did you collect all the puzzle pieces?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 07, 2008, 09:46:14 PM
I can't understand people praising the story

maybe they can't read
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 09:48:43 PM
The story, and actual story telling, is complete shit until the last 5 to 10 minutes of the game.  Then it is awesome.  You just need every puzzle piece to see it.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 09:51:01 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie

Get me a free code too
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: MCD on August 07, 2008, 09:52:43 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie

Get me a free code too
slide one near my pm box.

ms lied and raped my family, i can't support this, you need to understand my situation.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Grecco on August 07, 2008, 10:01:37 PM
I can't understand people praising the story

maybe they can't read

Hawthorne Heights fans.  Its Emo Kid Garbage.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 07, 2008, 10:07:12 PM
BTW, I'll take a free code too if anyone has an extra one. I'll send you nude pictures of demi in return, he sends them to me all the time.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: pilonv1 on August 07, 2008, 10:13:54 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie

Get me a free code too

we tried that before and you gave it to gazunta, who is being a cocksucker and not thanking me for it.

AUS codes don't work for you yankees
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 07, 2008, 10:16:23 PM
I have all the shit from worlds 2 and 3, all but three in 4 and 5, and I think I'm missing four from 6. I'll get them.

I really don't know how to do the Hunt one in the left-right world.

I full cleared the first two worlds, which was okay, and I like the "duplication" world so I might full clear it, but the left-right time movement bullshit is like my least favorite RPG puzzles (you move, they move, get into a corner to "desync" their movements, etc.)

It's not really like that. You can't "desync" them. That's the whole point. It took me a while to get my head around this level, but now I've only got one piece to go - the one with the giant cloud at the end. The shadow level is the one that is harder for me to figure out. Not really put much effort into it yet, I must say, but it is semi-annoying when you rewind and find out your shadow has reset to your last position when you didn't intend it.

Yea, they should have made the shadow dude a separate button from standard rewind.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Grecco on August 07, 2008, 10:16:48 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie

Get me a free code too

we tried that before and you gave it to gazunta, who is being a cocksucker and not thanking me for it.

AUS codes don't work for you yankees

Give me one and ill try  :P
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie watercolors
Post by: cool breeze on August 07, 2008, 10:19:59 PM
I have all the shit from worlds 2 and 3, all but three in 4 and 5, and I think I'm missing four from 6. I'll get them.

I really don't know how to do the Hunt one in the left-right world.

Here is a tip:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
You want to plan to get rid of the enemies on the left of the screen before the right ones.  Think of the x axis as a time line, you want to end with being on the right.  Also, the final door that opens when they are all dead will be open after you kill all of them, you don't have to worry about killing them and dealing with going up there without reviving them.  Once it is gone, it is gone.
[close]
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 07, 2008, 10:20:01 PM
And let me tell you, the world where you had to get yourself on top of that cannon to put the slow-down-ring on top of it was killing me. I don't even know how I managed to land on top of it, once I did it I didn't dare touch the X button again.

I have all the shit from worlds 2 and 3, all but three in 4 and 5, and I think I'm missing four from 6. I'll get them.

I really don't know how to do the Hunt one in the left-right world.

Here is a tip:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
You want to plan to get rid of the enemies on the left of the screen before the right ones.  Think of the x axis as a time line, you want to end with being on the right.  Also, the final door that opens when they are all dead will be open after you kill all of them, you don't have to worry about killing them and dealing with going up there without reviving them.  Once it is gone, it is gone.
[close]

Oh, I thought I had to keep them all dead. With that in mind I will tackle it with greater gusto.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 07, 2008, 10:21:58 PM
AHAHAHA I JUST GOT A FREE CODE FOR THIS

get a job hippie

Get me a free code too

we tried that before and you gave it to gazunta, who is being a cocksucker and not thanking me for it.

AUS codes don't work for you yankees

What that was totally for Xbox Originals only, we never tried XBLA
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: MCD on August 07, 2008, 10:28:39 PM
ms points are region locked.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: pilonv1 on August 08, 2008, 12:37:59 AM
see

ill will play braid this weekend and then complain about it even though it was free
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: pilonv1 on August 08, 2008, 01:14:18 AM
http://braid-game.com/news/?p=260

Soundtrack links

also he reads the comments so you can troll him there demi
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Vrolokus on August 08, 2008, 03:16:08 AM
Finished the game, the ending is pure M. Night Shyamalan goodness.  Back when Shyamalan made good movies, I mean.

I'm curious about the stars, but without wanting to spoil anything for myself I don't even know where to begin.  Tried the very first time attack, though, and was horrified by the limit... good lord, you'd have to be a machine.   :o
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: chronovore on August 08, 2008, 03:29:28 AM
Played through the first level this morning and paid for the full game immediately afterward. The graphics are understated and beautiful, the soundtrack's lovely, and the gameplay seems clever without being punishing.

Not convinced that "you don't die" is the same as "you can rewind if you die," though.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: hyp on August 08, 2008, 12:36:07 PM
yup i like the game too.  bought the full version.   :P
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 12:36:50 PM
Losers
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: MCD on August 08, 2008, 12:53:54 PM
i didn't buy it yet.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 08, 2008, 01:37:30 PM
I bought it and I regret it every day. Don't be a Patel.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: dark1x on August 08, 2008, 01:52:03 PM
I bought it and I regret it every day. Don't be a Patel.
Why exactly are you crusading against this game?

It certainly isn't for everyone, but it's still a quality title that should be given a shot.  How often do we get high-resolution, hand drawn 2D platformers these days?  The puzzles are interesting and unique, the presentation is very solid, and it's fun to play.  The story is pretentious as hell, but it plays a very small role.  I mean, if you hated the storyline for a Metal Gear game you'd be fucked as those games are loaded with cutscenes, but Braid only presents the story in small snippets that can be skipped simply by running past them.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 08, 2008, 01:56:36 PM
I bought it and I regret it every day. Don't be a Patel.
Why exactly are you crusading against this game?

It certainly isn't for everyone, but it's still a quality title that should be given a shot.  How often do we get high-resolution, hand drawn 2D platformers these days?  The puzzles are interesting and unique, the presentation is very solid, and it's fun to play.  The story is pretentious as hell, but it plays a very small role.  I mean, if you hated the storyline for a Metal Gear game you'd be fucked as those games are loaded with cutscenes, but Braid only presents the story in small snippets that can be skipped simply by running past them.

it's overpriced and I hate the creator

the game itself isn't that bad (though I think it's being massively overrated) but I can't really support someone as full of himself as Blow. and given how full of myself I am that says a lot.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: MCD on August 08, 2008, 02:02:05 PM
do you have something against baldies, patel?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: dark1x on August 08, 2008, 02:13:59 PM
I bought it and I regret it every day. Don't be a Patel.
Why exactly are you crusading against this game?

It certainly isn't for everyone, but it's still a quality title that should be given a shot.  How often do we get high-resolution, hand drawn 2D platformers these days?  The puzzles are interesting and unique, the presentation is very solid, and it's fun to play.  The story is pretentious as hell, but it plays a very small role.  I mean, if you hated the storyline for a Metal Gear game you'd be fucked as those games are loaded with cutscenes, but Braid only presents the story in small snippets that can be skipped simply by running past them.

it's overpriced and I hate the creator

the game itself isn't that bad (though I think it's being massively overrated) but I can't really support someone as full of himself as Blow. and given how full of myself I am that says a lot.
Overpriced?!  It's fucking $15!  That's really not asking much for a game of this quality.  Perhaps it is a bit overrated, but that doesn't mean it isn't still worth playing.  You should leave your personal feelings for the creator out of this as that really shouldn't factor into whether someone can enjoy the game or not.

I hate Nintendo (the Wii/DS generation of Nintendo), everything they stand for, and what they've done to the industry but I'll still pick up the few Wii titles that actually DO appeal to me.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 02:17:09 PM
I cant really support someone who says "buy my game or I'll *shudder* have to get a job! i dont want that!"
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Vrolokus on August 08, 2008, 03:29:23 PM
I cant really support someone who says "buy my game or I'll *shudder* have to get a job! i dont want that!"

Just so I'm up to speed: are you a full-on joke character now, or what?  God forbid someone wants to be successful at something he loves rather than resort to 8 hour days in a cubicle doing data entry.  "OMFG I'm not going to buy that band's album because they just don't wanna work the fry counter at McDonald's!  What arrogant assholes!"

Please.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 03:34:38 PM
Blow could take a cue from James Silva.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 03:37:34 PM
I cant really support someone who says "buy my game or I'll *shudder* have to get a job! i dont want that!"

Just so I'm up to speed: are you a full-on joke character now, or what?  God forbid someone wants to be successful at something he loves rather than resort to 8 hour days in a cubicle doing data entry.  "OMFG I'm not going to buy that band's album because they just don't wanna work the fry counter at McDonald's!  What arrogant assholes!"

Please.



Blow just doesn't come across as enjoying what he does. If he did, he wouldn't be concerned whether he had to "get a job" or not. Musicians do what they do because they love making music. It's what makes us enjoy what they do. We go to their shows, we buy their merchandise and whatnot. If someone doesn't have the heart doing what they do, I cannot become involved - attached. Blow threw all that out the window. Will not be supporting him, I'm afraid.

Comparing his loser ass to Minter was an insult all the same. Minter's game apparently bombed, outsold by Frogger, as noted by his outcry. However, Minter is back at the game, typing up yet another remake of a remake - GridRunner. That takes soul. That is legend.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Vrolokus on August 08, 2008, 04:21:17 PM
I cant really support someone who says "buy my game or I'll *shudder* have to get a job! i dont want that!"

Just so I'm up to speed: are you a full-on joke character now, or what?  God forbid someone wants to be successful at something he loves rather than resort to 8 hour days in a cubicle doing data entry.  "OMFG I'm not going to buy that band's album because they just don't wanna work the fry counter at McDonald's!  What arrogant assholes!"

Please.



Blow just doesn't come across as enjoying what he does. If he did, he wouldn't be concerned whether he had to "get a job" or not. Musicians do what they do because they love making music. It's what makes us enjoy what they do. We go to their shows, we buy their merchandise and whatnot. If someone doesn't have the heart doing what they do, I cannot become involved - attached. Blow threw all that out the window. Will not be supporting him, I'm afraid.

This makes no sense at all.

Clearly Blow hasn't been handed a map to a long-forgotten treasure horde on the isle of Monte Cristo, free to follow his bliss without worrying about pedestrian, everyday concerns like, you know, rent.  In case you haven't noticed, there isn't a Game Developer kiosk next to the food court at every mall.  Actually being able to make a living at his preferred career is a longshot, and unless you're independently wealthy, success determines whether you are able to stick with it.  And let me tell you something about musicians (or any artist, or anyone pursuing a non-cubicle career path for that matter): they might do it because they love it, but they only can do it if they're successful.  If people don't care or don't notice their efforts... well, you can't pay the landlord in face-melting guitar riffs.  You got to get a job, and if you're working full time that means less time working on your music, which means there's less chance it's going to go anywhere.

And I'm not sure how you're parsing his interviews to conclude he "doesn't enjoy what he does", but again: please.  You don't like the game, the developer rubs you the wrong way... that's really it.  No need to over-rationalize it by making broad assumptions about a person you've never met.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 08, 2008, 04:26:49 PM
I'm gonna buy it with my ill gotten space bucks from the car website scam. I don't care if this guy is like 40 and still politicking like some 19 year old philosophy major.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 08, 2008, 04:34:15 PM
Ok, this article about Braid makes Blow seem like a lame art prick.

Quote
Independent designer Jonathan Blow's award-winning Braid made its Xbox Live Arcade debut just last week, but Blow says Microsoft's certification requirements might have impeded the game's final quality.

Talking to Gamasutra as part of a larger interview to be published in the near future, Blow says the cert process for XBLA is more geared toward triple AAA games than perhaps is useful.

"They removed some of the requirements for XBLA games, but there are still a lot of requirements, and I believe that, at least for a single-player game like my game, the vast majority of these requirements are unnecessary," he says.

"I put in a tremendous amount of work meeting all these requirements, when I could have put that work into the actual game, and made it even a little more polished, little bit better."

Blow says Microsoft's XBLA certification process is intended to ensure a standard of quality for all titles on the service -- "But I feel like it actually decreases the quality of games, because people spend so much of their energy on these things that users don't even really care about."......


"I mean, maybe in five years when I'm motivated, if I have a really fresh idea for it. But I'm not waiting in the wings with a level pack, or DLC or anything."

Blow says he has considered releasing Dashboard themes since Microsoft announced the redesign. "I didn't want to do them on the old Dashboard, because it's covered with ads everywhere," he says.

"Braid is about setting a mood and a feeling, and you can't do it while there's like, a Burger King ad there, flashing... I just felt that juxtaposition would have been bad for the game."


Oh, and here is a Braid segment from the 1upshow (It has spoiler): http://gamevideos.com/video/id/20638

Very interesting if you want to know what fellating a game designer looks like.  It also helps show that people really do think everything is art.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 04:46:31 PM
No, I really was interested in the game, from the praise of close friends along with the overall style. I even thought the demo was nice, since I got to see it up close. Unfortunately, I have to stand my ground. He's pompous, as the article swaggaz posted linked. Expect more chest thumping from him in the future.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 08, 2008, 04:50:55 PM
No, I really was interested in the game, from the praise of close friends along with the overall style. I even thought the demo was nice, since I got to see it up close. Unfortunately, I have to stand my ground. He's pompous, as the article swaggaz posted linked. Expect more chest thumping from him in the future.
Maybe if you support him, he'll earn enough money to OD.

He comes off as a user.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 04:52:06 PM
I will also accept free download tokens.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Grecco on August 08, 2008, 04:57:43 PM
Ok, this article about Braid makes Blow seem like a lame art prick.

Quote
Independent designer Jonathan Blow's award-winning Braid made its Xbox Live Arcade debut just last week, but Blow says Microsoft's certification requirements might have impeded the game's final quality.

Talking to Gamasutra as part of a larger interview to be published in the near future, Blow says the cert process for XBLA is more geared toward triple AAA games than perhaps is useful.

"They removed some of the requirements for XBLA games, but there are still a lot of requirements, and I believe that, at least for a single-player game like my game, the vast majority of these requirements are unnecessary," he says.

"I put in a tremendous amount of work meeting all these requirements, when I could have put that work into the actual game, and made it even a little more polished, little bit better."

Blow says Microsoft's XBLA certification process is intended to ensure a standard of quality for all titles on the service -- "But I feel like it actually decreases the quality of games, because people spend so much of their energy on these things that users don't even really care about."......


"I mean, maybe in five years when I'm motivated, if I have a really fresh idea for it. But I'm not waiting in the wings with a level pack, or DLC or anything."

Blow says he has considered releasing Dashboard themes since Microsoft announced the redesign. "I didn't want to do them on the old Dashboard, because it's covered with ads everywhere," he says.

"Braid is about setting a mood and a feeling, and you can't do it while there's like, a Burger King ad there, flashing... I just felt that juxtaposition would have been bad for the game."


Oh, and here is a Braid segment from the 1upshow (It has spoiler): http://gamevideos.com/video/id/20638

Very interesting if you want to know what fellating a game designer looks like.  It also helps show that people really do think everything is art.


Nick Suttner

How awesome is your game?

Blow

So awesome
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 05:00:41 PM
Blow is probably an advocate of the Wii. Is that what you want?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 08, 2008, 05:04:15 PM
what makes jonathan blow so obnoxious? i ask this in all naivete, since all i know of him was his little e3 walkthrough thing.

edit: read the thread. i think it's the cocksucking from the games-as-art gaffertard set that makes his lightweight posturing seem heavier.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 05:05:14 PM
Just how he comes off, mostly. Maybe if he registered on NeoGAF and called everyone out, I'd like him more.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 08, 2008, 05:13:44 PM
well, i ain't buyin' braid, anyhow

if i ever see him at magic dragon, i'll say hi and tell him how much i enjoyed galaga legions
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 08, 2008, 05:15:16 PM
anyone who complains about a 9/10 from Edge as not understanding the true artistry of his game software is clearly a fuck
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 08, 2008, 05:18:27 PM
nick suttner likes everything
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 08, 2008, 05:18:42 PM
he complained about a 9/10 from EDGE?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 05:22:58 PM
he complained about a 9/10 from EDGE?


http://braid-game.com/news/?p=245

Quote
UK print magazine Edge has published the first review of Braid, giving the game a score of 9/10. Normally I would not be happy about a 9, but Edge has a reputation for being very tough with scores. (Braid was the only game with a score of 9 or above in this issue [#192]; in previous issues, they gave BioShock and Metal Gear Solid 4 each 8/10. Headline coming soon: Edge says Braid is better than MGS4; PS3 fan riot imminent.) I can’t link the review because it’s in print, but here’s the last sentence:

Braid remains a beautiful and brilliantly demanding game that barely contains its dense population of ideas, taking its place alongside Geometry Wars and Pac-Man Championship Edition as one of the finest original titles available on Live Arcade.

The Edge reviewer didn’t like the story much; but Chris Dahlen did. So there.


pompous chest thumping highlighted in red
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 08, 2008, 05:23:49 PM
so he is clearly an asperger's fuck
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 08, 2008, 05:26:02 PM
He posts at Quarter to Three, but I don't think at gaf.

Quote
(Braid was the only game with a score of 9 or above in this issue [#192]; in previous issues, they gave BioShock and Metal Gear Solid 4 each 8/10. Headline coming soon: Edge says Braid is better than MGS4; PS3 fan riot imminent.)

What the fuck.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 08, 2008, 05:48:03 PM
I might get this.  I don't know, I might really like it.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Bildi on August 08, 2008, 06:05:15 PM
I've been buying pretty much nothing recently, but I bought Braid it within about 10 seconds before I even walked into the world-select building.  :lol

It's pretty inventive, I've only completed world two but I enjoyed the puzzles.  Blow sounds like a tosser, but his game turned out good.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 08, 2008, 07:04:57 PM
because he's an artist.  He wants to remain an artist.  He isn't about conforming to society or corporations.  Oh, but he needs more money or else he can't not make games anymore!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drew on August 08, 2008, 07:28:36 PM
(http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r126/Drewsy_photobucket/jerkit.gif)
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 07:36:52 PM
change that emoticon to :braid
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 08, 2008, 09:34:00 PM
arrogance and an aversion to proper jobs are laudable qualities in someone who's got the talent to sustain them -- as blow clearly does. but if you guys want games from HARD WORKING SPIRITED FOLKS WHO ARE JUST HAPPY TO BE IN THE INDUSTRY...well...little wonder that you're all xbots. CAN'T WAIT FOR SAINT'S ROW 2. SAINT'S ROW. SINGULAR POSSESSIVE. THERE'S THIS SAINT AND IT'S HIS ROW
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 08, 2008, 09:37:49 PM
or is it 'saints row,' plural no apostrophe

who gives a shit
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 09:48:47 PM
I see nothing wrong with buying Saints Row. Just helping out some hard working Americans.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Joe Molotov on August 08, 2008, 09:50:13 PM
Go back to GAF. (http://i143.photobucket.com/albums/r126/Drewsy_photobucket/jerkit.gif)
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 08, 2008, 09:55:34 PM
I wouldn't exactly sell Blow so high as a game developer.  I would say he is a few levels up from people who make flash games in their spare time.  The writing in Braid is atrocious, the music is borrowed, all the art is are from someone else, many of the time mechanics have been seen in other flash games or just other games in general (people compare it to Blinx).  I think the execution of the ideas was done well, and I do think Braid is awesome, but he isn't some genius guy who is super innovative and all that.  He is the M. Night Shyamalan of gaming and I am sticking to that comparison.  It really doesn't help that he doesn't seem very humble with accepting the hyperbole filled impressions and all that, but I don't think that matters when it comes to the actual game quality.  I'm just saying is all. 

Now, Jonathan Mak is a indie creator to get behind.  Mak is awesome.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: chronovore on August 08, 2008, 09:57:56 PM
Jesus. Some of you guys a-fucking-maze me.

The game is innovative, interesting, accessible, and beautiful both visually and aurally. It's art; whether or not you like it, that's up to the viewer/player. I've never been a fan of Munch's The Scream, but I'd never attempt to explain that it's not art. I dig Prince's music; I've got stuff going back to Dirty Mind, up to bootlegs of his gig at Coachella. The man's a pompous creep, I'd never let him babysit my kids or house-sit, but I don't let that affect my enjoyment of his music.

But Blow comes along and says some mildly pretentious shit, and all of a sudden it affects what the game is worth, and what the game should be rated?

I really wonder if any of the complainers hold the same standards for David Jaffe and God of War. That game got a lot of fanboy love, even though Jaffe expresses himself less like an industry luminary and more like a level implementer with Tourette's Syndrome.

BTW, Mak's pretty charming, and seems more "artist" motivated than Blow, but that's splitting hairs. In the end, Mak made Yet Another Dual Stick Shooter, but this time with MUSIC instead of explosions. That's less hefty than what Braid attempts, whether or not you like or or the other better.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 08, 2008, 10:00:11 PM
I see nothing wrong with buying Saints Row. Just helping out some hard working Americans.

yeah but you cancel it out by buying too human and helping a bunch of canadian phonies who sit around and sue hard working americans
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 10:02:05 PM
Dyack has a lot of love for his work. I can respect that.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Tabasco on August 08, 2008, 10:03:49 PM
I'll cop to being an xfag, and will happily let drohne and his fellow sony friends keep their "art" games on psn.  saints row, halo, gta, etc.  real games for me thx
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 08, 2008, 10:05:07 PM
I really wonder if any of the complainers hold the same standards for David Jaffe and God of War. That game got a lot of fanboy love, even though Jaffe expresses himself less like an industry luminary and more like a level implementer with Tourette's Syndrome.

Hi, me again

I think Jaffe is a fat gump and slouch after hearing some of the comments from his own co-workers at a GDC roundtable, falling on profanity and weed most of the time, which is why Cory Barlog stepped to the plate and completely made Jaffe irrelevant at his own series.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: chronovore on August 08, 2008, 10:05:50 PM
:rofl

I suspect Dyack forgot to send them the usual bribe: a young goat.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 08, 2008, 10:06:51 PM
message boards play dyack like a fiddle causing him to feed at troughs full of salty buttered popcorn

.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Bildi on August 08, 2008, 10:08:53 PM
I really wonder if any of the complainers hold the same standards for David Jaffe and God of War. That game got a lot of fanboy love, even though Jaffe expresses himself less like an industry luminary and more like a level implementer with Tourette's Syndrome.

You're my favourite person of the day.  :-*
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 08, 2008, 10:13:35 PM
message boards play dyack like a fiddle causing him to feed at troughs full of salty buttered popcorn

.

this. dyack ain't playin' anyone. he can't stop shrieking hoarsely to 1up lapdogs because gaf -- gaf!!! -- successfully trolled him. if saint c weren't off in wedded bliss, he'd call denis dyack a butthurt nerdlinger.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 08, 2008, 10:30:13 PM
BTW, Mak's pretty charming, and seems more "artist" motivated than Blow, but that's splitting hairs. In the end, Mak made Yet Another Dual Stick Shooter, but this time with MUSIC instead of explosions. That's less hefty than what Braid attempts, whether or not you like or or the other better.

Well, Everyday Shooter took probably half, or even a third of the time Braid did.  Braid is also a play on a platformer, it isn't like that or the time usage is particularly innovative.

And a few things Blow did say about Braid do tick me off.  On the 1upshow he basically talks about how he made the levels in such a way that unless you play them exactly as how he intended, you couldn't finish them.  That is ridiculous.  The fun part about games like these are that you are able to find other ways to exploit those powers and solve them quicker.  Just look at Portal and how people can beat that game in mere minutes.  That stuff is amazing.

And I think Mak is more of someone who would consider an element in a game artistic, but Blow seem like the type who was straight up say his game is art.  Watching the 1upshow where they stand by and look at the a scene from the game and try to find the meaning of it  is sickening to me.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 08, 2008, 10:36:13 PM
Quote
this. dyack ain't playin' anyone. he can't stop shrieking hoarsely to 1up lapdogs because gaf -- gaf!!! -- successfully trolled him. if saint c weren't off in wedded bliss, he'd call denis dyack a butthurt nerdlinger.

i have it on good authority that the entire gaming community is going to teach GAF a lesson by collectively ensuring that all the game reviews are about 90%


play magazine was doing that for the last four years, before halverson ironically decided to abolish scores and force us to read their impenetrably awful and incestuous screed
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Grecco on August 09, 2008, 02:35:41 AM
because he's an artist.  He wants to remain an artist.  He isn't about conforming to society or corporations.  Oh, but he needs more money or else he can't not make games anymore!

Im glad hes making a "game that matters"
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: FatalT on August 10, 2008, 07:23:06 AM
Braid is neat. I bought it last night and finished it a few minutes ago. Trying to get all the puzzle pieces was mind numbing but the final sequence was just insanity. Loved that moment.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Eel O'Brian on August 10, 2008, 08:03:31 AM
blow strikes me as the sort of dude who, at parties years from now, will keep trying to work braid into the conversation by relating it to everything

"man, that whole middle eastern situation is fucked beyond belief."

"it's funny, when i was creating braid, i intentionally injected an allegorical subtext about the strife in that region, and how if we could all just turn back the clocks in our hearts we - "

"excuse me for a sec, will ya, jon?  i need to freshen my drink."

*never comes back*

and dyack is going to "win" by default, because a great number of the fucktards spamming gif memes are going to run right out and drop $60 on too human if only to feel "legitimate" in shitting on it, which is basically all the dude wanted in the first place - that $60
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: archie4208 on August 10, 2008, 08:05:12 AM
Anybody got a walkthrough?  I'm getting bored and wanna finish the game before :bow :bow :bow BIONIC COMMANDO REARMED :bow2 :bow2 :bow2 comes out.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 10, 2008, 09:27:04 AM
In level 6-5, is there a way to reliably lead two of those goombas across the bed of plants? It's the part where there are three plants and you have to drop your ring under them to let the goombas through, so you can double jump on them to get to a puzzle piece.

I can get the timing down for one but by the time I move on to the other guy the timing has changed on the plants, there must be a better way.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 10, 2008, 09:29:37 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
quickest way is to get the plants roughly synchronized, stop time when they're all down, let three or four goombas cross, and then attempt the jump. the ring slows things down well outside its visible radius, so this puzzle can be annoying
[close]
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 10, 2008, 09:32:06 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
How do you get three guys across at once? Unless I'm crazy the plants will lose their timing after 20 seconds or so. I can get one dude across but by the time the next guy spits out everything is fucked up and I need to babysit them again, and then the first guy is too far gone.


Wait, should I be using the X button to get them across?! :lol

I've been trying to set the timing for all three at once by placing the slow ring beneath each of them one at a time
[close]


edit:

spoiler (click to show/hide)
wow this last level sucks

done

oh shit that was clever
[close]
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 10, 2008, 10:00:47 AM
who gives a shit if dyack sells a lot of too human. in the process he's burned more bridges than a 2 million seller (as if that were possible) can repair. MS is done with him. nintendo is done with him. sony probably isn't solvent enough to give him money. he's COOOOOKED, jerry.

oh right, sega.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Eel O'Brian on August 10, 2008, 11:34:45 AM
who gives a shit if dyack sells a lot of too human. in the process he's burned more bridges than a 2 million seller (as if that were possible) can repair. MS is done with him. nintendo is done with him. sony probably isn't solvent enough to give him money. he's COOOOOKED, jerry.

oh right, sega.

oh, bullshit

if a person's game generates a healthy profit, no publisher is going to give a fuck how much of an asshole that person is

that's how business works
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 10, 2008, 02:38:15 PM
who gives a shit if dyack sells a lot of too human. in the process he's burned more bridges than a 2 million seller (as if that were possible) can repair. MS is done with him. nintendo is done with him. sony probably isn't solvent enough to give him money. he's COOOOOKED, jerry.

oh right, sega.

oh, bullshit

if a person's game generates a healthy profit, no publisher is going to give a fuck how much of an asshole that person is

that's how business works

cooked. like a goose!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 10, 2008, 02:38:49 PM
Too Human is going to be one of the best games  this year
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 10, 2008, 02:41:44 PM
Dyack is going nowhere.

After this he will make Eternal Darkness 2 for the Wii.  Nintendo fans will line up to put their balls in their mouth and write hyperbole filled impressions about that game.  Nick Suttner will give it an A+ for having a segment where the game reverses the motion input, thus making you think different.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 10, 2008, 02:58:30 PM
i think nick is just overexposed. it seems like "nick gives everything an A+" because "nick gives everything" because zd is stretched so thin (or at least has been recently). last time i posted about it nick replied with a bunch of shovelware he gave an F. i don't think he gets it. he really gave aitd like a b- or something.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 10, 2008, 03:12:21 PM
Even so, he could have a bit more standards for judging what is a good game, and what is a bad game.  Alone in the Dark is a bad game.  I feel bad for anyone who played more than however the long the demo was, because just that bit was painful enough.  And the Braid A+ score is just ridiculous.  Even Shane and John on 1upyours talk about the insane hyperbole when he talks about that game.  I still enjoy listening to the kids table every Monday, but still.  Plus he was pissed that Psychonauts was chosen for Backlog, so that's cool. 
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: y2kev on August 10, 2008, 03:19:51 PM
kids table is cool, but nick seems to lose his shit whenever anything even remotely creative or original is discussed.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 10, 2008, 03:23:52 PM
I pre-ordered Too Human, so I could get the extra armor sets
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drew on August 10, 2008, 05:19:00 PM
this game is boring.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on August 10, 2008, 08:49:16 PM
Can someone explain the ending to me?  I finished the game yesterday and I thought I understood the direction of the narrative until I got to the last level + epilogue and now I'm a little confused as to what the hell they're getting at.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 10, 2008, 08:56:18 PM
I got that the dude was a crazy stalker and wanted to make himself seem like a knight, but in reality everyone saw him as a villain.  Apparently there is some really pretentious underlying stuff going on throughout the entire game or some shit like that.  I think you need to be an artist to appreciate it, or just stare at a random wall for 20 minutes until the meaning comes to you.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on August 10, 2008, 08:59:32 PM
So did he burn his house down or was that a metaphor?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 10, 2008, 09:04:44 PM
I'm not sure.  People on gaf seem to think they had it figured out.  Then again, people claim it is art and can be interpreted differently.  Who knows.  Blow sure doesn't.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Snuflupagulus on August 10, 2008, 10:21:15 PM
Can someone explain the ending to me?  I finished the game yesterday and I thought I understood the direction of the narrative until I got to the last level + epilogue and now I'm a little confused as to what the hell they're getting at.
He either banged his mother or girlfriend.  Or they banged him.  Or it was his sister.  But probably Mr. White with the candlestick in the Conservatory.  A restraining order may have been in place, issued by the municipal candy shop where untoward violence is committed. 

Great, sometimes ingenious puzzles littered with an inscrutable garbage narrative.  A durian is less ripe than Blow's elliptical wankery.  :-X
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 10, 2008, 10:23:22 PM
i like the cut of your jib
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 10, 2008, 10:25:42 PM
I went back and got three more pieces

thought better of it, turned the game off

The End
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 10, 2008, 10:26:48 PM
Robby bought me 3200 points today, and specifically told me not to buy Braid with it

:heart :heart :heart
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 10, 2008, 10:34:24 PM
http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136

There are spoilers in that, but that is the best damn explanation I heard that doesn't involve art kids getting emo.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Eel O'Brian on August 10, 2008, 10:49:09 PM
i am never going to play this game
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 10, 2008, 10:52:10 PM
This is pretty wild

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 10, 2008, 11:06:46 PM
that's a lot more interesting than the GAF interpretation of the "real" meaning

given the quotes in the epilogue, there's no way it's not correct

too bad I never saw the epilogue because I wasn't willing to solve all of Blow's dumb puzzles to 100%
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 10, 2008, 11:08:47 PM
Yea, that is definitely correct.

It makes drohne's disses look hilarious :lol

Quote
oh come on, nick suttner. blow designs like a genius and writes like a teenager. the enigmatic, ambiguous presentation of the story is interesting -- and i confess that i've yet to make much sense of it -- but the writing unmistakably belongs to the 'fragments beginning with the word she' genre so popular in high school literary magazines. granted that relationship angst, normally the least interesting subject in the world, is novel, refreshing material for a videogame -- but loving braid for its story is perverse. at best. it betrays an inadequate appreciation for its shit hot puzzle design

Sorry drohne :(
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Eel O'Brian on August 10, 2008, 11:13:20 PM
that's still some shitty writing
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Snuflupagulus on August 10, 2008, 11:15:04 PM
i like the cut of your jib
:-* ...one of the benefits of Catholic parents.

This is pretty wild

http://www.rllmukforum.com/index.php?showtopic=190136
I recommend reading this (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12324032&postcount=1723) while reading that.

You will be taken to a different place.   :bowDraft (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?p=12339595#post12339595) :bow2   :tophat.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 10, 2008, 11:33:31 PM
that's still some shitty writing

yeah, I'm with Eel on this one

Braid has a much more interesting premise than I gave it credit for

but that doesn't mean the writing is any good, or the premise is well-presented
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 10, 2008, 11:45:43 PM
at the risk of sounding like apf in the obama antichrist thread, i think those links to the atom bomb are pretty tenuous -- except of course for the epilogue book that's explicitly about the atom bomb. not that i scrutinized braid's story that closely, but my feeling was that the epilogue presented the princess as any unattainable, obsessively-desired object -- a girl, a scientific discovery, the candy your mother wouldn't buy you, your mother. this is a neat idea, but it's kind of embarrassing that blow's chosen images of scientific discovery are animal torture and atom bombs. the oedipal undertones are embarrassing too. and i thought the 'braid' level was interested in the way that reversing a situation can change its meaning, rather than REVEALING TIM AS A STALKER -- martin amis wrote a dull novel called 'time's arrow' on roughly this premise. i think all these attempts at at a definitive interpretation are missing the point, though the atom bomb one is of course much cleverer than the whole TIM IS AN ALCOHOLIC line of thought. it's ambiguous by design
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 12:06:42 AM
the line "Now we are all sons of bitches." is an incredible smoking gun.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 11, 2008, 12:11:22 AM
again: there is one epilogue book that is clearly, explicitly about the atomic bomb. the author of that theory took hold of that aspect of the story and tried to fit everything else to it -- cleverly but unsuccessfully. at bottom there's just a ton of material that doesn't apply in any conceivable way to the atomic bomb
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Crushed on August 11, 2008, 02:07:47 AM
I'll probably play this when it comes out on PC, but the idea that this funny little smiling man in a suit jumping on not-goombas is actually a stalker who sits outside princess' windows (while probably pleasuring himself in the process) is rather amusing.

Disturbing, but amusing.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 03:00:54 AM
It is true:

http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=X_NyXbHEAoU

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 03:18:02 AM
it does seem pretty cool, but again, what kind of game design requires 100% completion (according to the designer's whims and vagaries of logic) just to have a chance to track down seven additional secret items in order to possibly unlock a secret ending that's the only way to know what the hell is going on in the game? if that's good storytelling then I'm the King of Japan.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 11, 2008, 03:19:44 AM
All hail King Patel

:bow
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Vrolokus on August 11, 2008, 03:25:10 AM
it does seem pretty cool, but again, what kind of game design requires a 100% completion (according to the designer's whims and vagaries of logic) simply to get a secret ending that's the only way to know what the hell is going on? if that's good storytelling then I'm the King of Japan

I know what you mean.  I'm still angry I had to read some books cover to cover to fully get the story.  So unfair.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 03:35:09 AM
it does seem pretty cool, but again, what kind of game design requires a 100% completion (according to the designer's whims and vagaries of logic) simply to get a secret ending that's the only way to know what the hell is going on? if that's good storytelling then I'm the King of Japan

I know what you mean.  I'm still angry I had to read some books cover to cover to fully get the story.  So unfair.

That's a specious argument and you know it - there's nothing keeping you from the end of a book except for time. The pages, words, and narrative are all right there on the page. The barrier of communication between the author and the reader is 0.

A game, on the other hand, can't assume that players are going to have 100% completion. The job of narrative in a game is to tell a good story for any player's path through the game, and a better story for players who invest more time. Braid requires 100% completion to even get the last level, and 7 secret stars (that you won't get without GameFAQs) in order to get crucial information for interpreting the game correctly.

Again, I'm not saying that Braid has a bad story - in fact, my respect for the game is begrudgingly enhanced by these revelations of what it's "about" - but it's certainly not well told and is an absolute failure as far as using games as a storytelling medium is concerned.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 03:39:11 AM
holy crap, the star in the first level (one of 7 required for the "true" ending) requires you to wait for TWO HOURS?

[youtube=425,350]v42We6BaUh8[/youtube]
http://ca.youtube.com/watch?v=v42We6BaUh8

apparently some of the later ones are even worse
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 11, 2008, 03:40:58 AM
it like, has a special meaning, man.

people defending this are turds

i heard blow needs his cock sucked... go make it happen
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Vrolokus on August 11, 2008, 03:49:23 AM
it does seem pretty cool, but again, what kind of game design requires a 100% completion (according to the designer's whims and vagaries of logic) simply to get a secret ending that's the only way to know what the hell is going on? if that's good storytelling then I'm the King of Japan

I know what you mean.  I'm still angry I had to read some books cover to cover to fully get the story.  So unfair.

That's a specious argument and you know it - there's nothing keeping you from the end of a book except for time. The pages, words, and narrative are all right there on the page. The barrier of communication between the author and the reader is 0.

A game, on the other hand, can't assume that players are going to have 100% completion. The job of narrative in a game is to tell a good story for any player's path through the game, and a better story for players who invest more time. Braid requires 100% completion to even get the last level, and 7 secret stars (that you won't get without GameFAQs) in order to get crucial information for interpreting the game correctly.

Again, I'm not saying that Braid has a bad story - in fact, my respect for the game is begrudgingly enhanced by these revelations of what it's "about" - but it's certainly not well told and is an absolute failure as far as using games as a storytelling medium is concerned.

It's not specious at all.  There are countless books - some of the greatest novels of all time - that aren't equally accessible to everyone, and that can't simply be "gotten" by marching through them.  Shit, some people can't even read one of Shakespeare's plays without their eyes crossing, or need the goddamned Bible in modern language to "get" it.  You can buy the Odyssey in standard formatting because some people can't read anything in stanzas.  And some books are so subtle, people will read every page but never really think of What It Means... I mean to many, Camus' The Stranger is about a guy who shoots someone and goes to prison.  The End.

The definition of good storytelling is most certainly not whether it's packaged for mass consumption and appreciable to the lowest common denominator.  You might as well say War & Peace is a failure because most people can't finish it and everyone's named Anna.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 03:50:07 AM
Yeah, I'm watching the walkthrough for these stars on youtube.  I mean, this is clever in a way, but I don't see how Blow is above that chick who wore a vagina suit and rode around on a bike.  Actually, I think he is a bit worse.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 03:59:21 AM
it does seem pretty cool, but again, what kind of game design requires a 100% completion (according to the designer's whims and vagaries of logic) simply to get a secret ending that's the only way to know what the hell is going on? if that's good storytelling then I'm the King of Japan

I know what you mean.  I'm still angry I had to read some books cover to cover to fully get the story.  So unfair.

That's a specious argument and you know it - there's nothing keeping you from the end of a book except for time. The pages, words, and narrative are all right there on the page. The barrier of communication between the author and the reader is 0.

A game, on the other hand, can't assume that players are going to have 100% completion. The job of narrative in a game is to tell a good story for any player's path through the game, and a better story for players who invest more time. Braid requires 100% completion to even get the last level, and 7 secret stars (that you won't get without GameFAQs) in order to get crucial information for interpreting the game correctly.

Again, I'm not saying that Braid has a bad story - in fact, my respect for the game is begrudgingly enhanced by these revelations of what it's "about" - but it's certainly not well told and is an absolute failure as far as using games as a storytelling medium is concerned.

It's not specious at all.  There are countless books - some of the greatest novels of all time - that aren't equally accessible to everyone, and that can't simply be "gotten" by marching through them.  Shit, some people can't even read one of Shakespeare's plays without their eyes crossing, or need the goddamned Bible in modern language to "get" it.  You can buy the Odyssey in standard formatting because some people can't read anything in stanzas.  And some books are so subtle, people will read every page but never really think of What It Means... I mean to many, Camus' The Stranger is about a guy who shoots someone and goes to prison.  The End.

The definition of good storytelling is most certainly not whether it's packaged for mass consumption and appreciable to the lowest common denominator.  You might as well say War & Peace is a failure because most people can't finish it and everyone's named Anna.

I'm going to try to keep this civil because I think this is actually a decent point for discussion.

Even the person who thinks that The Stranger is about some guy who shot some Arab somewhere, got a story out of it. And great books work on that level - that base level of plot, characterization, and pacing - while simultaneously working on a higher one. Braid is missing that lower level; its head is entirely up in the meta-symbolic clouds.

My argument isn't that "good storytelling" involves repackaging your story for the LCD - it's that good storytelling involves, well, telling a story. If you read half of War and Peace, you at least have half a story (the "war" parts, presumably.) I played Braid for 4 hours, getting about 80% of the pieces - but I don't have 80% of the story. I don't even have 10% of the story. How is this fair? How is this a good way for your game to communicate its story to the player? What incentive to I have to continue?

Braid's not the only game I've levelled this criticism at - you can't put your story in your game, hide it behind secret doors and codes and difficult puzzles and arcane player behaviors...and then point to it in defense when people ask why your game doesn't have a great story. If I played your game and you didn't tell me your great story, then it might as well not be there - and you've failed as a game designer, at least as far as narrative expression goes. No matter how good your story is.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Cormacaroni on August 11, 2008, 04:23:37 AM
Shakespeare's plays, the Bible and the Odyssey were all perfectly accessible to comtemporaneous readers (or listeners, most likely). There was no attempt by the author(s) to prevent or obstruct understanding. Now, if you'd chosen an example like Finnegan's Wake or The Dictionary of the Khazars, your point might have carried some weight.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: pilonv1 on August 11, 2008, 05:21:29 AM
this game is annoying the fucking shit out of me. rabbits everywhere killing me and shit not moving when i want it to. irreversible and tight channels can suck my cock

that walkthrough was fucked, glad i didn't pay for this garbage

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: pilonv1 on August 11, 2008, 05:45:46 AM
The whole time and mystery level can fuck right off
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: drohne on August 11, 2008, 07:57:00 AM
braid isn't nearly as obscure as this specious atom bomb theory makes it seem. i think the key to its interpretation is not the epilogue's bomb references but the phrase 'the princess is in another castle.' what does it mean to be questing after a princess who's always somewhere else? what if there isn't any princess? what if the princess is trying to get away from you? what if the princess is actually something dark and dangerous? gamers are content-obsessed, but braid is more interested in form than content: in teasing the meaning out of old videogame tropes, in making the prefatory text for each world refer both to relationships and game mechanics, etc
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on August 11, 2008, 10:02:22 AM
The whole time and mystery level can fuck right off

:/

That's actually one of the easier worlds, or at least I thought so.  Some of the shit in world 4 (where you rewind time by moving left) and 6 (the time ring) made me want to pull my fucking hair out.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 01:19:02 PM
holy crap, the star in the first level (one of 7 required for the "true" ending) requires you to wait for TWO HOURS?

No. You can do it in about 15 minutes, but most people are too distinguished mentally-challenged to use the FFWDx8 option.

you can't FF into time you haven't experienced yet, afaik
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 01:20:54 PM
braid isn't nearly as obscure as this specious atom bomb theory makes it seem. i think the key to its interpretation is not the epilogue's bomb references but the phrase 'the princess is in another castle.' what does it mean to be questing after a princess who's always somewhere else? what if there isn't any princess? what if the princess is trying to get away from you? what if the princess is actually something dark and dangerous? gamers are content-obsessed, but braid is more interested in form than content: in teasing the meaning out of old videogame tropes, in making the prefatory text for each world refer both to relationships and game mechanics, etc

this is interesting, but I didn't see this as a weird subversion of genre mechanics or a TWEEST so much as just, well, the tone Braid was going for. maybe it says something about how jaded I am by common videogame tropes that even subverting those tropes strikes me as trite.

but, come on, you're jumping on little Mario heads! how much more obvious could you make your "reversal" :)
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 01:39:35 PM
No. You can do it in about 15 minutes, but most people are too distinguished mentally-challenged to use the FFWDx8 option.

I'm attempting to get it now, and doing fast forward just stops time.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: demi on August 11, 2008, 01:42:02 PM
Groo owned, Braid sucks, life goes on
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 01:43:23 PM
I don't even know why I am attempting to get the stars.  You get nothing for them and most are really stupid.  You have to delete your save game to even have access to them.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: FatalT on August 11, 2008, 02:19:03 PM
I don't even know why I am attempting to get the stars.  You get nothing for them and most are really stupid.  You have to delete your save game to even have access to them.

Probably because it's the only replay value the game has other than just showing someone the final sequence.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 02:24:52 PM
This is so stupid.  An hour in it that fucking cloud hasn't moved past the middle of the screen.  I'm gonna play PJ Eden to pass the time.  Yes, its true, there are games out there where you can play for enjoyment and not some art wankery.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: homborg on August 11, 2008, 02:43:00 PM
holy crap, the star in the first level (one of 7 required for the "true" ending) requires you to wait for TWO HOURS?

it's takeshi no chousenjou!
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 02:51:19 PM
holy crap, the star in the first level (one of 7 required for the "true" ending) requires you to wait for TWO HOURS?

it's takeshi no chousenjou!

haha

info for those who don't know this game: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Takeshi_no_Chousenjou
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Vrolokus on August 11, 2008, 03:15:10 PM
holy crap, the star in the first level (one of 7 required for the "true" ending) requires you to wait for TWO HOURS?

it's takeshi no chousenjou!

Genius.  See, if the Virtual Console was worth anything at all they'd put that out on it.

Personally, I thought of Lucky Wander Boy a couple times while playing the later, weirder levels of Braid.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 03:33:33 PM
I don't think they can until Wii Speak comes out.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on August 11, 2008, 03:44:03 PM
holy crap, the star in the first level (one of 7 required for the "true" ending) requires you to wait for TWO HOURS?

it's takeshi no chousenjou!

Genius.  See, if the Virtual Console was worth anything at all they'd put that out on it.

Personally, I thought of Lucky Wander Boy a couple times while playing the later, weirder levels of Braid.

Funny, so did I. I also thought, "Lucky Wander Boy works much better as a metaphor for nostalgia for innocence lost than a platformer" ;)
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 11, 2008, 05:03:15 PM
I don't know, I don't think this game is so bad.  I think the puzzles are really great, to be honest.  The last game that's made me think like this was Portal, and I loved Portal.

I don't know if its worth 1200 points, but it's certainly one of the better XBLA games.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 06:33:13 PM
Playing through it again to get the stars (you have to delete you save game to do this), I just think this game is actually pretty bad the second time around.  First time you play it, it is great because you have to figure out all the puzzle and shit like that, but unlike Portal which holds up through repeated playings, this game doesn't let you figure out ways to solve puzzles quicker or anything.  It is basically retracing your steps and doing tedious actions to solve the puzzles you already knew.  I mean, when you don't have that sensation of 'oooh! I feel good after solving that puzzle' or some shit like that, you see the game for what it really is: dealing with terrible platforming mechanics as you follow a script.  You have no freedom during your play through of this game and are forced to do exactly what Blow wants you to do.  The only leeway you have is the platforming, which is incredibly clunky and at times feels broken to restrict you from doing a puzzle any other way than what Blow wants you to do. 

Bottom line is that if this wasn't an XBLA game and on DVD or CD, I would suggest returning it after one playthrough.  Great once and bad a second time.  Only reason to play it a second time is if you have amnesia and don't remember anything about the game.

In fact, I will go as far as to say that Braid is probably going to end up being the worst major XBLA release this month.  Geometry Wars 2 is better, Bionic Commando Rearmed is definitely going to be better, Galaga Legions is probably going to be better, And Castle Crashers is also most likely to be better.  I'm not saying it is a bad game (at least for the first playthrough), but the amount of hyperbole surrounding this game is misguided.

If you can find a way to play this once, I would say it is totally worth it, but now that I realize how little replay value this game truly has,  I would say that it isn't worth the cost.  I'm just glad I got it for free.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: disgruntled_jojo on August 11, 2008, 07:01:42 PM
Please do not invoke Portal when speaking of this game.  Portal does not deserve such comparisons.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Enl on August 11, 2008, 07:08:43 PM
I've kinda back and forth on purchasing the game. It certainly is pretty to look at but it feels kinda like one of those flash games that tries to emulate a console platformer, and from what it seems it sounds pretty short with little replay value. I think I might hold off until a later date or a price drop. Plus Bioinc Commando, Castle Crashers and Galaga are coming and I much rather have those.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 11, 2008, 07:11:45 PM
It's a puzzle game. You can't really expect a lot of solutions to each puzzle.

Portal may have had a few puzzles like that, but Portal is also basically a tutorial for like the first 10 levels. Don't get me wrong, I love Portal to death, but the first 11-12 puzzles are incredibly easy.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 07:49:15 PM
In many situations there seems to be a way to reach the solution other than the way that is intended, but you fail to do so because the game refuses to allow you to.  In some situations the character will actually reach a platform before fumbling on the edge and falling off after the run animation is already in progress.  Blow himself said that he limited the chances of finding alternate paths to solve the puzzles.  It wouldn't be as bad if they didn't show you that you could just barely reach it.  Other type games that offer one solution, mainly flash games, usually don't bother me because they never present you with the ability to reach those areas.  Braid does, but doesn't let you.  It is in some weird middle ground.

And even the later levels in Portal, in my case the advanced challenge levels, had me solving the puzzle in a completely different way than what others did.

I also accept that I am probably being more harsh on Braid than I need to be, but I do so to counter some of the immense hyperbole being dished out.

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 11, 2008, 08:04:35 PM
People are jizzing on Braid in a big way so I can get behind you.

For what it's worth, my love for braid extends only to the slick puzzle design and the charming art and music. I roll eyes mucho hard at those books.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: border on August 11, 2008, 08:09:02 PM
My only disappointment with this game is that the pricetag and the demo left me with the impression that there would simply be a lot more content here than there actually is.  I only had to look up the solutions for about 3-5 of the puzzles -- which is pretty good for me, as I get stumped and frustrated pretty easy.  Only one puzzle (the end of Crossing the Gap) had a stupid "WTF - how was I supposed to know that" solution.  The other ones I didn't get were in the last world, where I had trouble really utilizing the platforms that isolate you from time reversal.  Considering the lack of any tutorial and my general ineptitude with puzzles, I'm surprised how quick and pleasantly I got through everything.

Other than that, it's a pretty cool puzzle game and I like the mood and art very much.  I don't understand why there is so much hatred here for it.....just misdirected aggression towards GAF and the developer?  Is there anything here that's really worth hating?  Maybe it doesn't resonate with you, but it's not offensively bad.

cleverly but unsuccessfully. at bottom there's just a ton of material that doesn't apply in any conceivable way to the atomic bomb

You mean the boy wasn't sitting around in a castle courtyard with a warhead, sharing secrets with it and giving fanciful names to pretty birds?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 11, 2008, 08:13:33 PM
Which one was crossing the gap?
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 08:27:56 PM
It's the one where you need to time it so that you jump off of the goomba who jumped off of your shadow's head.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: border on August 11, 2008, 08:28:49 PM
It's the one where you have to have the goomba jump on you.  There is nothing before or after that in the game to indicate that an enemy landing on you will pop them up into the air......that doesn't happen in videogames in general.

I guess it's kind of an interesting reversal, but I sure as hell don't feel bad about looking up the answer.  Never would have thought to do that no matter how long I played the game.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: disgruntled_jojo on August 11, 2008, 08:32:18 PM
My only disappointment with this game is that the pricetag and the demo left me with the impression that there would simply be a lot more content here than there actually is.  I only had to look up the solutions for about 3-5 of the puzzles -- which is pretty good for me, as I get stumped and frustrated pretty easy.  Only one puzzle (the end of Crossing the Gap) had a stupid "WTF - how was I supposed to know that" solution.  The other ones I didn't get were in the last world, where I had trouble really utilizing the platforms that isolate you from time reversal.  Considering the lack of any tutorial and my general ineptitude with puzzles, I'm surprised how quick and pleasantly I got through everything.

Other than that, it's a pretty cool puzzle game and I like the mood and art very much.  I don't understand why there is so much hatred here for it.....just misdirected aggression towards GAF and the developer?  Is there anything here that's really worth hating?  Maybe it doesn't resonate with you, but it's not offensively bad.

First, before I start in on any ranting, let me make this clear: I'm 100% only talking about the gameplay.  I think the sound and visual direction of the game is really unique and awesome.  I also appreciate the impressive quality of what Blow has achieved here from a programming/game engine standpoint (especially by himself).  Ok, onwards.

I consider myself very much like you describe yourself in that first paragraph - I get stumped and frustrated quite easily, and I'm generally inept when it comes to complex puzzles.  However, I found almost everything you said about the game to be the exact opposite of my experience.  Many of the pieces I got, I stumbled across the solution just by exhausting every option I could see that was open to me.  Trial-and-error is the worst kind of puzzle design - it's the reason in my mind that the traditional point-and-click adventure died in the 90's (until it's recent revival at the hands of Telltale, who have spent a pretty huge amount of effort countering that criticism with well-cued puzzles and an extensive hint system).  Several of the pieces I did get I only got after considerable frustration, either with the puzzle's execution or the puzzle's demand for exacting platforming. Over two dozen of the pieces I didn't complete.  About half of those, I messed around with them for a few minutes and didn't feel like I was making any progress at all.  For the other half, I literally tried them once or twice and was like 'I don't see what I'm supposed to do here at all' and just moved on.  As in, I couldn't even see any options to try to solve it.  I FAQed a couple of them and was like 'wow, I'd never figure that out'.  

I mean, ultimately it's just a matter of you either being more patient, better at puzzles, or having it 'click' more than I.  All of that is fine.  In fact, the game is fine.  I'm with many of the others in this thread in feeling that the problem here lies in how every damn person is losing their mind over the game.  It makes a number of really obvious amateur game design mistakes.  What bugs me the most is that I see unending praise for it from the blogs of designers who write books and articles about those mistakes and how to avoid them.  That is more frustrating to me than I can put into words.  Seeing designers I genuinely admire heap praise on this or mention it as the 'best game since Portal' or 'the game that made me buy a 360', etc.... makes me want to hang my head in shame and throw my head back to scream at the injustice all at the same time.

To reiterate: this is a decent game.  It's probably worth 15 bucks if you liked the demo.  IT IS NOT THE NEXT PORTAL.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 11, 2008, 08:32:55 PM
Oh whatever, man.

I felt like a Goddamn pimp after figuring that out.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 08:46:24 PM
Quote
To reiterate: this is a decent game.  It's probably worth 15 bucks if you liked the demo.  IT IS NOT THE NEXT PORTAL.

Agreed.

And I thought Crossing the Gap was great.  One of the puzzles that made me feel clever when I beat it.  I didn't use a guide when i played it, but at times I did post asking for help only to figure it out myself before checking back for responses.  I do think the game is great for the first time through, although bits of it are incredibly stupid.  The second hunt is another one that makes you feel great after beating it.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 11, 2008, 09:20:53 PM
Second Hunt was awesome.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 11, 2008, 10:42:32 PM
It's the one where you have to have the goomba jump on you.  There is nothing before or after that in the game to indicate that an enemy landing on you will pop them up into the air......that doesn't happen in videogames in general.

I guess it's kind of an interesting reversal, but I sure as hell don't feel bad about looking up the answer.  Never would have thought to do that no matter how long I played the game.

yea, shit is definitely not as intuitive as some people say it is.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on August 11, 2008, 11:19:53 PM
Yeah, I think the one puzzle where you have to jump into the falling goomba to pop it up was one of the more asinine solutions in the game.  I was about to say fuck it and look up the answer when I finally solved it out of dumb luck.  If there was something else in the game that would give the player some sort of indication that bumping an enemy from below would send them higher it would've been alright but as it is it just seems like broken design.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Draft on August 11, 2008, 11:32:49 PM
I mean, YOU jump higher when landing on enemies, why shouldn't they?

Anyway, you know the solution has to involve your shadow self. How many times did you unsuccessfully try jumping off the things head as it patrolled before you realized that wasn't the answer?

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Before I figured out that I needed to use my shadow self as a spring, I actually manged to get a goomba down below the last puzzle piece AND use the previous goomba to get myself to the very top of the level. I thought maybe you had to jump from that high to get enough momentum to make the head jump. When that failed, the real answer dawned on me in like 2 minutes.
[close]

I really enjoyed that puzzle and was genuinely pleased with myself when I figured it out.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 11, 2008, 11:42:42 PM
I think in general the past shadow world was the best parts of the entire game.

It actually got me excited for The Misadventures of Mr. P.B. Winterbottom (http://pc.ign.com/objects/142/14267693.html)

Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: Bildi on August 12, 2008, 12:37:06 AM
I didn't find the find the one where the goomba jumps on you to be harder than any other puzzle in the game.  I actually wish the puzzles were quite a bit harder - I was kind of expecting puzzles that keep you stumped for a day or two.

I guess I'd just like the game to be longer because it's so good.  At the moment it's going awfully quick.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: cool breeze on August 12, 2008, 12:41:10 AM
I wish Blow put in expert levels instead of a fucking speed run mode.
Title: Re: The Braid thread of M$ lies and hippie Blow not wanting a job
Post by: border on August 12, 2008, 01:18:28 AM
I mean, YOU jump higher when landing on enemies, why shouldn't they?
Because in nearly every other 2D platformer (including the Mario series that this game heavily references), that does not happen.  If an enemy lands on you, you take an energy hit and it falls straight through you.