THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Ganhyun on August 08, 2008, 11:18:50 AM
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http://www.cnn.com/2008/WORLD/europe/08/08/georgia.ossetia/index.html
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Fuck shit just got real. Why so serious Russia? Guess we better deploy those missile defense shields.
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COD6 confirmed?
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COD6 confirmed?
They are pissed COD5 went back to WW2 so they start WW3 instead.
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Russia shouldn't have ever let it break away in the first place in the 1990s.
One big honking country > federation of shitty states. FACT.
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Well, it looks like Russia is trying to stop ethnic cleansing, something the United States has never done in Africa. Although I guess everyone sorta helped stop it in Germany during WWII
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Russia shouldn't have ever let it break away in the first place in the 1990s.
One big honking country > federation of shitty states. FACT.
china
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Better than the olympics. I'm going for Russia.
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Well, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything that comes out of the Georgian president's mouth right now.
This, though, is just plain hilarious.
Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence.
"The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. "We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
I really don't think this particular couple should be pointing any fingers when it comes to choosing armed conflict over diplomacy.
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Is Giorgio Moroder from Georgia
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I wonder how this will turn out.
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This, though, is just plain hilarious.
Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence.
"The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. "We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
I really don't think this particular couple should be pointing any fingers when it comes to choosing armed conflict over diplomacy.
True but two wrongs don't make a right. Russia should have avoided this IMO, but hey they are setting on all that money and those guns. Guess they needed to test them on someone. Other eastern european countries already see Russia as being agressive this will only raise those tensions/fears.
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This, though, is just plain hilarious.
Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence.
"The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. "We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
I really don't think this particular couple should be pointing any fingers when it comes to choosing armed conflict over diplomacy.
True but two wrongs don't make a right. Russia should have avoided this IMO, but hey they are setting on all that money and those guns. Guess they needed to test them on someone. Other eastern european countries already see Russia as being agressive this will only raise those tensions/fears.
[/quote]
Next thing you know they'll want nukes instead of a missle defense shield.
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update: apparantly Georgia had been requesting NATO membership.
I wonder if this played into Russia attacking now?
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China must be pissed, today was supposed to be their day!
I know there are Americans out there who see "Russia invades Georgia" and are like, OH DAMN, RED DAWN'S ON, SON
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ITS HERE. OBAMA THE ANTI-CHRIST, RUSSIA INVADING SHIT. AND OTHER STUFF
JAYSUS BRING US HOME
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More like "The Russians went down to Georgia, looking for a soul to steal."
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Well, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything that comes out of the Georgian president's mouth right now.
This, though, is just plain hilarious.
Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence.
"The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. "We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
I really don't think this particular couple should be pointing any fingers when it comes to choosing armed conflict over diplomacy.
dude, different situation. We gotta protect the white people. oh shit nevermind there's still a lot of brownies over there. WAR!
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hrmmm... This is messed up.
CNN... BREAKING NEWS... is not Russia invading Georgia... at least when I looked. nice.
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Jesus, didn't I see this on the news like last century?
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Jesus, didn't I see this on the news like last century?
Yea, this all started i nthe early 90s. Part of Georgia wanted to seperate and alot of the speratists are Russian citizens as well. They have had a triple group commitee there for a while.
My guess as to why this is happening now: NATO. Georgia wanted to join NATO and Russia didnt want them to since it represents more West (read US) encroachment onto their turf. Take them out now with an excuse about poor separatists and keep the out of NATO.
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I know there are Americans out there who see "Russia invades Georgia" and are like, OH DAMN, RED DAWN'S ON, SON
Beats dudes who are comparing it to Ghost Recon (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12309927&postcount=95).
My guess as to why this is happening now: NATO. Georgia wanted to join NATO and Russia didnt want them to since it represents more West (read US) encroachment onto their turf. Take them out now with an excuse about poor separatists and keep the out of NATO.
Which would, again, make for a pretty poor opportunity for the US to make any righteous statement.
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hey... on a MORE important note. Paris strikes back!
the more you know!
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This isn't shocking. The USSR is just down, it isn't necessarily out.
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This means we get a new Operation Flashpoint game?
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So, the Georgian president is calling for the international community (ie USA) to assist, on the basis of Russians invading foreign soil. Keeping in mind, of course, that Georgia itself has troops stationed in Iraq, participating in an armed intervention that Russia was strongly opposed to. A political clusterfuck in the Caucasus, how odd.
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I know there are Americans out there who see "Russia invades Georgia" and are like, OH DAMN, RED DAWN'S ON, SON
Beats dudes who are comparing it to Ghost Recon (http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=12309927&postcount=95).
that is kind of funny coincidence wise
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This means we get a new Operation Flashpoint game?
Son AND CoD I mean, this was just begging to happen. :gun
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Random book recommendation because it fits in: Kremlin Rising.
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Well, I wouldn't necessarily believe everything that comes out of the Georgian president's mouth right now.
This, though, is just plain hilarious.
Britain and the United States also urged all sides to bring an immediate end to the violence.
"The U.S. has been in discussions for many months with all parties to find a peaceful resolution," said White House spokesman Gordon Johndroe. "We urge all sides to refrain from violence and to begin direct talks."
I really don't think this particular couple should be pointing any fingers when it comes to choosing armed conflict over diplomacy.
dude, different situation. We gotta protect the white people. oh shit nevermind there's still a lot of brownies over there. WAR!
Please just don't.
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This is some Team Rainbow stuff, we need DING CHAVEZ up in this.
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[youtube=425,350]JBPyx2U3Ll0[/youtube]
:rock
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Posting this from my Blackberry:
Awoke this morning to sirens and hundreds of parachutes in the air...few minutes later three Soviet troops busted down my door...saw me posting on Gamefaqs...shook their heads...ordered me at gun point into the back of a truck...now at some huge internment camp outside Buckhead...hopefully they won't find my blackberry (kinda stinks if you know what I mean)...will post again on next potty break
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Posting this from my Blackberry:
Awoke this morning to sirens and hundreds of parachutes in the air...few minutes later three Soviet troops busted down my door...saw me posting on Gamefaqs...shook their heads...ordered me at gun point into the back of a truck...now at some huge internment camp outside Buckhead...hopefully they won't find my blackberry (kinda stinks if you know what I mean)...will post again on next potty break
:lol
so awesome. if the REDS did invade georgia and I was living in atlanta, I'd be headed for the hills and mountains around rome to start putting up my partisan resistance.
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If the Russians invaded Atlanta, they'd all get shot and robbed.
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Holy crap, some people are actually writing Medvedev off as an "unknown bureaucrat." That forum needs to just stick with US politics, or at least consider historical precedence before blurting out their nuggets of wisdom.
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Medvedev is just a puppet installed by Putin. Putin still holds the true power.
(http://anupkaphle.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/vp.jpg)
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Posting this from my Blackberry:
Awoke this morning to sirens and hundreds of parachutes in the air...few minutes later three Soviet troops busted down my door...saw me posting on Gamefaqs...shook their heads...ordered me at gun point into the back of a truck...now at some huge internment camp outside Buckhead...hopefully they won't find my blackberry (kinda stinks if you know what I mean)...will post again on next potty break
:lol
so awesome. if the REDS did invade georgia and I was living in atlanta, I'd be headed for the hills and mountains around rome to start putting up my partisan resistance.
Any RED army invading the state of Georgia and trying to take Atlanta would be destroyed. That would unite every clique and group in the state in one cause to destroy them.
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niccas drive their tanks into the atl and get their treads stolen, tanks up on cinder blocks
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Random book recommendation because it fits in: Kremlin Rising.
(http://www.mariowiki.com/images/thumb/c/c1/Normal_kremling.jpg/120px-Normal_kremling.jpg)
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niccas drive their tanks into the atl and get their treads stolen, tanks up on cinder blocks
:lol :lol :lol :rofl :rofl :rofl :ussrcry :ussrcry :ussrcry :american :american :american
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Medvedev is just a puppet installed by Putin. Putin still holds the true power.
(http://anupkaphle.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/vp.jpg)
That man is such a bad guy from a movie or game. Look at him. We need a president that badass (but not crooked).
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niccas drive their tanks into the atl and get their treads stolen, tanks up on cinder blocks
fucking hilarious :lol
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Medvedev is just a puppet installed by Putin. Putin still holds the true power.
(http://anupkaphle.files.wordpress.com/2007/12/vp.jpg)
That man is such a bad guy from a movie or game. Look at him. We need a president that badass (but not crooked).
I look at that pic and hear James Bond music.
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(http://xs130.xs.to/xs130/08325/georgia227.jpg)
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(http://i38.tinypic.com/nlzhbl.jpg)
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yankees heading for atlanta with a big box of matches :lol :lol
I know the OP in that post must have been a troll, but that is a pro response.
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Well shit.
So much for the faint hope that Medvedev's ascension would herald a new, cuddlier Iraq. Looks like NATO should have fast-tracked Georgia's membership (or outright rejected them).
I'm not sure what leverage the big western nations have on Russia right now, seeing as how they're stretched out militarily while Russia's sitting on increasingly important gas and oil reserves. Blech.
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(http://i38.tinypic.com/nlzhbl.jpg)
/thread :lol
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Georgia is recalling all 2000 of their troops from Iraq tomorrow.
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Georgia is recalling all 2000 of their troops from Iraq tomorrow.
Which, as mentioned, is just bloody cute given the accompanying justification, and plea for international support based on the wrongness of Russian presence on foreign soil.
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(http://i38.tinypic.com/nlzhbl.jpg)
:rofl
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(http://i38.tinypic.com/nlzhbl.jpg)
:lol :lol :lol
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http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/georgia_south_ossetia;_ylt=AmjlHZe_vdaMlsXatWzyf9.s0NUE
now's a good time for that stray asteroid, god
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So, according to DN.se, fighting has also broken out in Abkhazia. Georgia is for all intents and purposes fucked.
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Abkhazia's the region everyone was expecting to set off hostilities in the first place. Ossetia was treated like a footnote until recently.
The impression I get is that Georgia and Russia are both run by fairly aggressive nationalists. Saakashvili thinks Georgians should control all the territory within their official borders and Putin thinks Russia should have influence or control over its near border states.
Western support for Georgia (some military aid and training, NATO membership on the backburner) was just enough to make Russia feel threatened and Georgia feel confident enough to move without providing actual backup. At least that's my take.
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Georgia going forward with some sort of aggression thinking other NATO nations would back it up would be hilarious if it wasn't for the already built up 1400 death toll :/
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I'm packing my bag right now to go fight the Russians. I'm taking my .22 and some hunting knives. I'll be taking my friend Kenny to film it all too.
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There's TWO Georgia's now? :O
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Georgia going forward with some sort of aggression thinking other NATO nations would back it up would be hilarious if it wasn't for the already built up 1400 death toll :/
I read somewhere most of those casualties were Russian but maybe it was propaganda?
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World War II wasn't the end of world war and the Cold War never ended.
The wars have just gotten quieter... more strategic. There's not always a physical battlefield, sometimes its purely economic or political. Sometimes its fought via proxy through far flung allies, arming countries and militias, meddling in the affairs of other nations, shaping the politics, shaping the entire map of the world.
Bush and Putin might be at the Olympics together, shaking hands, and talking about Georgia, but whats really going on behind the scenes is anyones guess. There exists a power struggle in this world that could well result in another major war, irradiating the atmosphere, killing millions. And to be frank, it fucking scares me.
Russia has Europe BY THE BALLS. Its energy assets are huge, its calling all the shots... a joint venture with a British energy company has been completely taken over by the Russian side, they seem poised to seize the oil-rich seabed of the North Pole, they control vital pipelines that supply all of Europe. Before 9/11, talk of attacks against America prompted the Russians to advise that Russian investors trade their dollars for gold... the price of food (in Russia AND China) indicates that they may have actually been stockpiling grain, so that in the event of global financial crisis, or war, they have not only financial clout, but that they also have ample food to weather the storm themselves.
The USSR everyone thought was dead is now our new 'friend' the Russian Federation. Along with its ex-KGB leader, I worry they have been completely underestimated by the West. Now US unilateralism has given them all the 'justification' they need to carry out their will in chechnya, and here in Georgia.
Some might say that Iraq and Afghanistan have detracted from threats like these.... but to the contrary I would say that both of those conflicts factored in to this darker, quieter Cold War conflict all along. The Russians and the Chinese were never with us on Iraq. Along with the French, they had various energy agreements with the Ba'athists IIRC, but maybe the Russians also objected to having tens of thousands of US troops stationed a mere hop across a couple of borders. Maybe they stood aghast as we managed to get airspace and territorial agreements with the likes of Turkey and Pakistan, and used 9/11 to draw them into our "war on terror". Maybe the Russians see through the way we say a missile defence system will stave off threats from the likes of Iran. We already have the technology to determine the source of a ballistic missile strike. Any country that tried to nuke another country would likely be obliterated many times over. That is, unless said country posessed a defence shield that could intercept those missiles.
The US has invested billions into this "Star Wars" idea and its been modernizing its Nuclear deterrant. You don't need a robust anti-ICBM system, and bunker busting nuclear weaponry to deal with terrorists or non-threat states. You could probably do with those things though if you wanted to face up to an old enemy like the Russian Federation and its increasingly economically powerful allies.
Georgia were poised to become a part of NATO, an alliance of nations set up in the first place because of the Cold War with Russia. No doubt they would have become a base of US operations eventually, partners in the Star Wars anti-ICBM system.... the fact that Georgia is so proud and nationalist as to not relinquish territories that have unofficially voted for independance has played right into the Russians hands here. The Georgian president has said he has been warning of this attack for months, and no-one would listen... but what can European neighbours do? What can the US realistically do? If the Russians show restraint beyond "liberating" South Ossetia, that will be mercy in my book. Because, theoretically, they can do whatever the hell they like and get little more than half hearted "condemnation" from the Western powers. I wouldn't want to be in Georgia right now.
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I'm packing my bag right now to go fight the Russians. I'm taking my .22 and some hunting knives. I'll be taking my friend Kenny to film it all too.
WOLVERINES!!!!!!
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Georgia going forward with some sort of aggression thinking other NATO nations would back it up would be hilarious if it wasn't for the already built up 1400 death toll :/
I read somewhere most of those casualties were Russian but maybe it was propaganda?
I think this is a case of both players gambling with someone else's money. South Ossetia moved to break away figuring the Russians would have their back and Georgia clamped down figuring NATO would have theirs. Looks like Ossetia was right and Georgia was wrong.
As for casualties, who knows? Welcome to a war zone, where the only actors with any shot at counting the dead have very strong incentives to lie about it. In a couple years some epidemiologists will do a study and we'll have an idea.
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There's a few vids up on LiveLeak now.
2000 dead...
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World War II wasn't the end of world war and the Cold War never ended.
snip
Russia, militraily was always going to be the country to watch out for.
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What worries me most, as a UKer - is that this apparently could hand control of gas passing through the Caspian Sea to the Russians. They already have a deal in place for Turkmen gas. We've seen them shut off supply to the Ukraine. They're not above using energy as a means to twist nations to their will... they're going to have an energy presence in South America with Venezuela. They want to start a cartel, similar to OPEC I guess, that would decide when, where and how much gas is produced. Even China should be concerned about Russia imo. Its scary to think how one day they may control so much.
We've had pretty frosty relations with them (and rightly so) since the Litvinenko / Polonium-210 poisoning in London, so I'm naturally distrustful and wary of their movements... but Russian victory in this conflict could also narrow the pipeline options for Europe down to gas via Turkey from Iran. Iran!! Its not even like there's a subtlety to the correlation - energy-wealth VS war. If you're rich in gas or oil, you're either in very great danger, or you're going to get very powerful friends.
Europe has had peace for 60 years. Its not really a long time when you think about it. If you end up with one or two countries controlling the essential means of EU nation's economies, it could get really fucking ugly.
Whats the end game in this plan for the US and the Russians? Where do the hawks see it going, where does Putin want it to go? What about all the puppets in this? Venezuela, Iran, Syria, Israel, Pakistan, India, North Korea, to name but a few. There's so much room for error, so many ways things could escalate.
If there aren't some revolutionary energy solutions soon, and I realise this will sound silly and alarmist, but can we really avoid World War 3?
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I guess for Euorpe a gas line from Iran though unsavoury would not be all that bad. Iran has gas, they need to sell it at a price and if they can get leverage from European nations to stop any attack from the US so much the better. Plus Turkey could be finally drafted into the EU and to ensure a more stable region.
I mean the big loser is really the US they are losing influence as the day to day economics have an impact on the military actions of European countries which support 'democracies'.
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So, I'm used to these people lying a bit, but this is getting ridiculous. The Georgians claim to have shot down 80 Russian planes, killed hundreds of Russian soldiers, that 90% of the victims of Russian strikes were civilians, and that Russian forces have practically invaded Georgia. The Russians, on the other hand, claim that 4 planes have been shot down, and that 18 of their soldiers have been killed. And now the Georgians, presumably due to pressure from journalists in the area, are admitting to having fabricated attacks on targets in Tbilisi. This in addition to a bold false statement earlier, in which the Georgians claimed that it had pushed back Russian forces that were apparently never even in the region.
Good grief.
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So, I'm used to these people lying a bit, but this is getting ridiculous. The Georgians claim to have shot down 80 Russian planes, killed hundreds of Russian soldiers, that 90% of the victims of Russian strikes were civilians, and that Russian forces have practically invaded Georgia. The Russians, on the other hand, claim that 4 planes have been shot down, and that 18 of their soldiers have been killed. And now the Georgians, presumably due to pressure from journalists in the area, are admitting to having fabricated attacks on targets in Tbilisi. This in addition to a bold false statement earlier, in which the Georgians claimed that it had pushed back Russian forces that were apparently never even in the region.
Good grief.
Yeah I have been taking the reports from Georgia and Russia with a grain of salt, it's obvious that they're both lying.
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So, I'm used to these people lying a bit, but this is getting ridiculous. The Georgians claim to have shot down 80 Russian planes, killed hundreds of Russian soldiers, that 90% of the victims of Russian strikes were civilians, and that Russian forces have practically invaded Georgia. The Russians, on the other hand, claim that 4 planes have been shot down, and that 18 of their soldiers have been killed. And now the Georgians, presumably due to pressure from journalists in the area, are admitting to having fabricated attacks on targets in Tbilisi. This in addition to a bold false statement earlier, in which the Georgians claimed that it had pushed back Russian forces that were apparently never even in the region.
Good grief.
Both sides are lying. Simple as that. Its a war between them. Both want to make the other think something untrue.
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Of course. It's just on a whole new level of lies even for these players, and so far, the Georgians seem to be in the lead. Which, I assume, is all an effort to gain official international support. It's just a shame for them there are journalists in the region.
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I'm packing my bag right now to go fight the Russians. I'm taking my .22 and some hunting knives. I'll be taking my friend Kenny to film it all too.
I've got a .22 as well, we can fight and hump. :gun :hump
Edit: We should also t-bag our kills.
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UK Prime Minister Gordon Brown says there is "no justification" for Russia's military action in Georgia.
He said the intervention "threatens the stability of the entire region and risks a humanitarian catastrophe".
"There is a clear responsibility on the Russian government to bring this conflict quickly to an end," he said.
Tory leader David Cameron branded Russia a "dangerous bully" and urged the international community to stand up and condemn its action in Georgia.
He also called for Georgia's membership of Nato to be "speeded up".
Mr Cameron told the BBC: "The only language that bullies understand is when someone stands up to them."
:gbcry
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Hell yes. WW3 here we come.
Future History Textbook Excerpt:
"World War III began by a military conflict between Georgia and Russia over South Ossetia. Although, global tensions had been consistently on the rise since the September 11th, 2001 terrorist attacks against the World Trade Center in New York City, New York."
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The Russian Deputy Prime Minister is on CNN right now claiming Georgia was ethnically cleansing South Ossetia and blames the US for prompting Georgia's use of force.
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CNN is now reporting that Gori (a city outside South Ossetia) is about to fall to Russian forces. Tiblisi isn't far from Gori, so it looks as if Russia may be making its way on to capturing the capital of Georgia.
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CNN is now reporting that Gori (a city outside South Ossetia) is about to fall to Russian forces. Tiblisi isn't far from Gori, so it looks as if Russia may be making its way on to capturing the capital of Georgia.
Yea I see this, as well as Britain's PM's message, being used for us (NATO/UN) to step in and stop this. Especially if they are pushing past that one reqion to take the whole country.
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Now, speaking of grains of salt...
"Saakashvili then abruptly ended his conference call with reporters, saying, "We have to go to the shelter because there are Russian planes flying over the presidential palace here, sorry."
Video footage showed a chaotic scene outside the palace, with the president being rushed away under heavy security."
Fearing an air raid, onlookers fled, looking skyward and screaming. No jets were seen or heard.
It might help their case if they toned it down a notch.
CNN is now reporting that Gori (a city outside South Ossetia) is about to fall to Russian forces. Tiblisi isn't far from Gori, so it looks as if Russia may be making its way on to capturing the capital of Georgia.
Yea I see this, as well as Britain's PM's message, being used for us (NATO/UN) to step in and stop this. Especially if they are pushing past that one reqion to take the whole country.
UN is entirely powerless outside of sending blueberries, and NATO knows fully well that it has no business stepping into any further conflicts, especially then one that involves Russia. There is also the matter of observers still not having a clear picture of whether or not Russia's accusations have any truth to them, and neither of the above would likely want to take action only to later be revealed as supporters of a side that conducted ethnic cleansing. Georgia is on its own.
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Here's a video of the Georgian President fleeing the palace... there may have been no jets, but they probably had intelligence that the Russians weren't going to stop.
http://edition.cnn.com/video/#/video/world/2008/08/11/vo.pres.georgia.air.ap
And I don't blame him for fleeing. Putin was comparing the Georgian President to Sadaam Hussein today... saying it was ok for the west to hang Saddam Hussein but Russia can't do the same to this guy?
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Here's a video of the Georgian President fleeing the palace... there may have been no jets, but they probably had intelligence that the Russians weren't going to stop.
Sort of like the intelligence that claimed that Russians had hit strategic targets around Tbilisi, which was later unveiled by journalists in the area (and later admitted by the Georgian government) to be a fabrication?
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Now, speaking of grains of salt...
"Saakashvili then abruptly ended his conference call with reporters, saying, "We have to go to the shelter because there are Russian planes flying over the presidential palace here, sorry."
Video footage showed a chaotic scene outside the palace, with the president being rushed away under heavy security."
Fearing an air raid, onlookers fled, looking skyward and screaming. No jets were seen or heard.
It might help their case if they toned it down a notch.
CNN is now reporting that Gori (a city outside South Ossetia) is about to fall to Russian forces. Tiblisi isn't far from Gori, so it looks as if Russia may be making its way on to capturing the capital of Georgia.
Yea I see this, as well as Britain's PM's message, being used for us (NATO/UN) to step in and stop this. Especially if they are pushing past that one reqion to take the whole country.
UN is entirely powerless outside of sending blueberries, and NATO knows fully well that it has no business stepping into any further conflicts, especially then one that involves Russia. There is also the matter of observers still not having a clear picture of whether or not Russia's accusations have any truth to them, and neither of the above would likely want to take action only to later be revealed as supporters of a side that conducted ethnic cleansing. Georgia is on its own.
Thats the thing though. If this were because of ethnic cleansing, then why not stop once you have the territory it was happening in free? Why push further in to take more?
Some people I work with consider this a power grab by Russia to take control of Oil/Gas lines to Europe to be able to make Europe be more compliant with russian plans intead of EU/US interests.
Me? I'm not sure which side to believe.
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Here's a video of the Georgian President fleeing the palace... there may have been no jets, but they probably had intelligence that the Russians weren't going to stop.
Sort of like the intelligence that claimed that Russians had hit strategic targets around Tbilisi, which was later unveiled by journalists in the area (and later admitted by the Georgian government) to be a fabrication?
The Georgians have played dirty no doubt about it, and the complicitness of the USA and other Western powers in all this is a bit alarming to me. Having said that though, the Russians are already taking Gori, they *can* take the country. My guess is there will be a pro-Moscow regime there before long.
The Ukraine must be watching nervously. We should be fast-tracking them into NATO for the sake of their security.
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"Lets do this marines."
Hopefully this doesn't give Russia the balls to try and take back the Ukraine or the CR (I've seen they've already made a statement about the Ukraine.) There is a fine line where NATO and the west will get involved, but for Georgia alone, probably not.
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In any business related to Russia, the correct mindset tends to be to doubt everything. But, while I don't think there is anything particularly outrageous about assuming that it's a power grab (or a reaction to NATO presence near Russian soil), technically there's plenty of justification for a push beyond the scene of the crime, so to speak. If we buy into the argument of ethnic cleansing, then Russia simply "stabilizing" the region will bring the region back to where it has been, with little evidence that the issue will not flare up again. Further military action is used to pressure Georgia into accepting Russia's terms for the region, which would further safeguard the Russian population there.
The Ukraine must be watching nervously. We should be fast-tracking them into NATO for the sake of their security.
That'd hardly be in Ukraine's best interest at this time. Getting into NATO is not an assured way of assistance, but it is an assured way of causing further conflict with Russia.
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"Lets do this marines."
Oorah
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In any business related to Russia, the correct mindset tends to be to doubt everything. But, while I don't think there is anything particularly outrageous about assuming that it's a power grab (or a reaction to NATO presence near Russian soil), technically there's plenty of justification for a push beyond the scene of the crime, so to speak. If we buy into the argument of ethnic cleansing, then Russia simply "stabilizing" the region will bring the region back to where it has been, with little evidence that the issue will not flare up again. Further military action is used to pressure Georgia into accepting Russia's terms for the region, which would further safeguard the Russian population there.
The Ukraine must be watching nervously. We should be fast-tracking them into NATO for the sake of their security.
That'd hardly be in Ukraine's best interest at this time. Getting into NATO is not an assured way of assistance, but it is an assured way of causing further conflict with Russia.
Have to agree with this. The argument that Russia has other intentions in Georgia just because they push further into the country is flawed.
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(http://www.mrnuke.com/pics/hudson1.jpg)
Don't worry Georgia the ultimate bad asses at NATO are here to protect you
(http://i.dailymail.co.uk/i/pix/2008/08/08/article-1042816-0234F2C300000578-314_468x286.jpg)
(http://www.alicia-logic.com/capsimages/a_090BillPaxton.jpg)
Great just great what the fuck are we supposed to do now man?
(http://www.biehnteam.com/ABC%20of%20Biehn/hicks.jpg)
Nuke em from orbit, it's the only way to be sure
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Oh them Georgians. This is like the Iraqi information minister in reverse
Georgia's security council secretary, Kakha Lomaia, had told the Reuters news agency: "They have captured the city of Gori."
But a Reuters reporter in Gori said: "We are right now driving through the town and I see no trace of troops or military vehicles. It is absolutely deserted."
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A lot of hot air coming from US politicians about the situation. You shouldn't call something "unacceptable" if you're going to have to accept it. It wears away at your credibility.
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One of my good friends works for Worldvision, they've so far helped ~2,000 women and children. Her coworkers over in Tblisi are safe, from the little they've heard.
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The EU has more to worry about than the US. They should make the first move, if anything the US should step back.
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wrong thread
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Can someone explain why both the dumb asses running for president have appealed to the UN Security Council for a resolution to end the fighting when Russia has veto power?
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Cause the American public doesnt know any better.
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we need stargate command to save the day
only teal'c can stop the fighting
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Can someone explain why both the dumb asses running for president have appealed to the UN Security Council for a resolution to end the fighting when Russia has veto power?
Didn't you hear McCain's going to kick out Russia out of the security council :punch. Only to be then vetoed by China.
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we need stargate command to save the day
only teal'c can stop the fighting
(http://rinaz.net/images/2007/07/stargate.jpg)
:punch
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Thank Gawd we got Obama:
[youtube=425,350]0njdTjo0b4A&eurl[/youtube]
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The whole thing is such a mess. I dont even like thinking about it much. Its like wtf can anyone do? The fact that BUSH of all people is lecturing Putin on how to initiate a hostile action like this is lolz in the bank.
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August 13, 2008
Cyberspace Barrage Preceded Russian Invasion of Georgia
By JOHN MARKOFF
Weeks before physical bombs started falling on Georgia, a security researcher in suburban Massachusetts was watching an attack against the country in cyberspace.
Jose Nazario of Arbor Networks in Lexington noticed a stream of data directed at Georgian government sites containing the message: win+love+in+Rusia.
Other Internet experts in the United States said the attacks against Georgia’s Internet infrastructure began as early as July 20, with coordinated barrages of millions of requests — known as distributed denial of service, or D.D.O.S., attacks — that overloaded certain Georgian servers.
The Georgian government blamed Russia for the attacks, but the Russian government said it was not involved.
Researchers at Shadowserver, a volunteer group that tracks malicious network activity, reported that the Web site of the Georgian president, Mikheil Saakashvili, had been rendered inoperable for 24 hours by multiple D.D.O.S. attacks. The researchers said the command and control server that directed the attack, which was based in the United States, had come online several weeks before it began the assault.
As it turns out, the July attack may have been a dress rehearsal for an all-out cyberwar once the shooting started between Georgia and Russia.
According to Internet technical experts, it was the first time a cyberattack had coincided with a shooting war. But it will likely not be the last, said Bill Woodcock, the research director of the Packet Clearing House, a nonprofit that tracks Internet traffic. He said cyberattacks are so inexpensive and easy to mount, with few fingerprints, that they will almost certainly remain a feature of modern warfare.
“It costs about 4 cents per machine,” Mr. Woodsock said. “You could fund an entire cyberwarfare campaign for the cost of replacing a tank tread, so you would be foolish not to.”
Shadowserver saw the attack against Georgia spread to computers throughout the government after Russian troops invaded the Georgian province of South Ossetia on Sunday.
Georgina media, communications and transportation companies were also targeted, according to security researchers.
“Could this somehow be indirect Russian action? Yes, but considering Russia is past playing nice and uses real bombs, they could have attacked more strategic targets or eliminated the infrastructure kinetically,” said Gadi Evron, an Israeli network security expert who assisted in pushing back a cyber attack on Estonia’s Internet infrastructure last May. “The nature of what’s going on isn’t clear.”
A Russian government spokesman said that the government was not involved, but that it was possible that individuals in Russia or elsewhere had taken it upon themselves to start the attacks.
“I cannot exclude this possibility,” Yevgeniy Khorishko, a spokesman for the Russian Embassy in Washington. “There are people who don’t agree with something and they try to express thesmelves. You have people like this in your country.”
Mr. Nazario said the attacks appeared to be politically motivated. They were continuing on Monday against Georgian news sites, according to Mr. Nazario. “I’m watching attacks against apsny.ge and news.ge right now,” he said.
The attacks were controlled from a server based at a telecommunications firm in Moscow, he said. In contrast, the attacks last month came from a control computer that was based in the United States. That system was later disabled.
Denial of service attacks, aimed at making a Web site unreachable, began in 2001 and have been refined in terms of power and sophistication since then. They are usually performed by hundreds or thousands of commandeered personal computers, making it difficult or impossible to determine who is behind a particular attack.
The Web site of the president of Georgia was moved to an Internet operation in the United States run by a Georgian native over the weekend. The company, Tulip Systems Inc., based in Atlanta, is run by Nino Doijashvili, who was in Georgia at the time of the attack. Two Web sites, president.gov.ge and rustavi2.com, the Web site of a prominent Georgian TV station, were moved to Atlanta. Computer security executives said the new sites had also come under attack.
On Monday, Renesys executives said that most Georgian networks were unaffected, although individual Web sites might be under attack. Networks appeared and disappeared as power was cut off and restored as a result of the war, they said
A company researcher noted that Georgia was dependent on both Russia and Turkey for connections to the Internet. As a result of the interference the Georgian government began posting news dispatches to a Google-run blogging Web site, georgiamfa.blogspot.com. Separately, there were reports that Estonia was sending technical assistance to the Georgian government.
There were indications that both sides in the conflict — or sympathizers — were engaged in attacks aimed at blocking access to Web sites. On Friday, the Russian language Web site Lenta.ru reported that there had been D.D.O.S. attacks targeted at the official Web site of the government of South Ossetia as well as attacks against the RIA Novosti, a Russian news agency.
Internet researchers at Sophos, a computer security firm based in Britain, said that the National Bank of Georgia’s Web site was defaced at one point. Images of 20th century dictators as well as an image of Georgia’s president Mr. Saakashvili, were placed on the site.
Internet technical experts said that the Georgian Internet presence was relatively small compared with other former Soviet states. The country has about a quarter the number of Internet addresses as Estonia or Latvia, according to Mr. Woodcock, the research director of the Packet Clearing House.
With support from the United States, Georgia is in the process of completing a 1, 400-kilometer fiber optic network link under the Black Sea connecting its port city of Poti to Varna, Bulgaria. That connection is scheduled for completion in September. The link will give the country added redundancy and make it less reliant on Russian companies for its data communication needs.
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I heard somewhere that Russia's ceasefire was due to diplomatic pressure ::)
This was Russia's plan along, give Georgia a broken finger as a warning for further hurt that will come if it steps out of line.
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That's kind of cool.
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War photography is pretty nauseating. Not only because of the horrors of war that they depict, but also because of how good people have become at posing for photographers thirsting for recognition that comes with taking that one iconic photo from the conflict.