THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Mandark on August 23, 2008, 02:15:19 AM

Title: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 23, 2008, 02:15:19 AM
Not official yet and I might be wading into "Dewey Defeats Truman" territory here.

Not too thrilled personally.  Biden seems to be solidly in the middle of the Democratic Party and has done some good on things like college tuition and violence against women. But he was a sponsor of and driving force behind the godawful bankruptcy bill a couple years ago.

In any case he's not as energized by domestic stuff as he is by foreign policy.  He tends to be pretty accurate and insightful when he summarizes a geopolitical brouhaha (unlike Lieberman et al who are describing fictional worlds) but he always seems to follow it up with a solution that overestimates America's ability to shape events outside of its borders.

Like with the current Bush admin the Secretary of State, Secretary of Defense, and National Security Advisor will all have to compete with the Office of the Vice President for influence.  Biden doesn't strike me as a guy who would be content with attending state funerals and waiting for Obama's death or the odd tiebreaking vote in the Senate.

On the other hand, I award him a billion points for this:

[youtube=425,350]mPOAKXBi9Pw[/youtube]
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: MrAngryFace on August 23, 2008, 02:19:54 AM
Not sure how I feel bout this yet. I dont know much bout Biden.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Crushed on August 23, 2008, 02:27:16 AM
Quote
"There has been no harsher critic of Barack Obama's lack of experience than Joe Biden," McCain campaign spokesman Ben Porritt said in a written statement.

"Biden has denounced Barack Obama's poor foreign policy judgment and has strongly argued in his own words what Americans are quickly realizing -- that Barack Obama is not ready to be president."

So the McCain campaign admits that Obama can win over even the harshest of critics.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 23, 2008, 02:37:32 AM
I don't think that's true, though.

I was following the whole thing pretty closely and I don't remember Biden sticking it to Obama.  I'm sure he must have tweaked him at some point but if a legendary quote machine like Biden was strongly opposed to Obama we would have seen at least a couple overblown news cycles about it.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: laesperanzapaz on August 23, 2008, 02:53:33 AM
the only thing i know about biden is he's white, he's a male, and he called Obama a distinguished black fellow.  no, not that other word.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Grecco on August 23, 2008, 03:27:16 AM
An old guy whose been in Washingon mehtastic pick
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: BlueTsunami on August 23, 2008, 04:07:33 AM
Seemed like the safe choice. I can dig it.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 08:21:32 AM
I don't think that's true, though.

I was following the whole thing pretty closely and I don't remember Biden sticking it to Obama.  I'm sure he must have tweaked him at some point but if a legendary quote machine like Biden was strongly opposed to Obama we would have seen at least a couple overblown news cycles about it.

[youtube=425,350]LSMS85bo4WM[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LSMS85bo4WM

It would be easy for Biden to wiggle out of that. "I didn't think he was ready at the time, but as I watched him campaign with such wit and grace blah blah blah"
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Eric P on August 23, 2008, 08:33:03 AM
well the VP debates will be interesting at least.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
fffffffffffffFFFFFFFFFFFFfffffffffffffffffffffffuck
[close]
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Positive Touch on August 23, 2008, 08:36:47 AM
sucks, but it's not like i would have liked his other choices much better
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 08:39:50 AM
He was the best choice on the short list imo, by a long shot. But no matter what he did Obama was in for criticism: he needed a specific type of VP, and not many people fit the "foreign policy attack dog who also represents/was born in important state" mold. Seemed like Biden, Nunn, or Clark to me.

But Mandark makes good points. He'll probably be giving Susan Rice and the rest of Obama's fp team a good workout every day
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: GilloD on August 23, 2008, 08:46:43 AM
I'm telling you, it's a Laurel and Hardy thing.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: GilloD on August 23, 2008, 08:52:32 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/

IT'S OFFIC.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: GilloD on August 23, 2008, 08:56:27 AM
So, anyway. I think aside from all Biden's credentials, more than anything he's the "funny" one to Barack's "serious" one. He'll say something goofy- Blacks are dumb- that taps into a truth no one wants to speak. Barack will apologize and say, "What he means is that urban communities are under funded!". That way they get the "working-man,GWB, plain English" thing done and they get the progressive, ELITE thing done and everyone feels like they won.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 09:01:06 AM
The good cop/bad cop routine  :o

I wonder when the Obama camp will send Biden to Pennsylvania to campaign his ass off; can't wait to see how that state's numbers change. I doubt Obama will get a huge poll bump nationally but Penn. should be interesting
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 23, 2008, 11:38:32 AM
i bet he was BIDEN his time for this nom!

...


...

you don't know how long i was waiting to say that

you have no idea

GIRL LET ME TOUCH U
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: GilloD on August 23, 2008, 12:06:12 PM
i bet he was BIDEN his time for this nom!

...


...

you don't know how long i was waiting to say that

you have no idea

GIRL LET ME TOUCH U

Looks like Obama kept poor Evan at BAYH.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 23, 2008, 12:08:02 PM
:o


:lol
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 01:51:54 PM
Bad pick, further chipping away at the reason everyday people are excited about Obama: a fresh face, nice guy, not a firebrand, who was right about the war.  I see the entire purpose of manipulating media hype over the pick--but putting the announcement so close to the convention--as an attempt to stop the possible hemorrhaging caused by this choice, which I guess is a strong tactical maneuver but also underscores how ridiculous it is.  I do however like the fact that this is another data point in my, "Obama is W'08" argument, but it's a Pyrrhic victory at best; you go with the candidate / President you have, not the etc etc you etc.

This 08 election is turning out weird--people are definitely charged up, but they're charged up about an enormously boring race that has been more about the utter unseriousness of the media, coupled by an endless cascade of gaffes and fumbles by everyone running.  The reality is completely overshadowed by the noise.


/disappointed
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Eric P on August 23, 2008, 02:22:40 PM
should've gone with rev wright
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 02:39:04 PM
Always go with your heart
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: bachikarn on August 23, 2008, 02:54:26 PM
Obama / Biden...

Osama Bin Laden...

COME ON!
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: jiji on August 23, 2008, 03:21:48 PM
OSAMA BEEN HIDIN'

 :o :o  :american
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: siamesedreamer on August 23, 2008, 03:26:49 PM
Biden's a fucking badass. I've always liked him. Had he been the DEM nominee I probably would have voted for him.

Just don't get the pick since Biden represents just about everything Obama has been running against this entire campaign.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: laesperanzapaz on August 23, 2008, 04:41:24 PM
how dunno how to feel

i both support and disapprove of this pick
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 05:10:11 PM
Yeah looking at the booger on my finger I can't help but feel the same way.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on August 23, 2008, 05:41:29 PM
I still thought he would make a better Secretary of State than a Vice President.

I can see why he would pick him since he has foreign policy experience.  At the same time, the fact that he is something of a loose cannon and a machine politician is going to make it easier for McCain and Co. to attack the Obama/Biden ticket. 
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 05:56:05 PM
I think the last thing you want as Secretary of State is a "loose cannon" though
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 23, 2008, 06:31:29 PM
I rolled my eyes a bit when David Brooks talked up Biden as a working class Democrat, but apparently he's one of the poorest Senators and maybe the poorest.  Makes some sense because he's been in the Senate forever and you usually can't get a lot of outside income while sitting in Congress.  Byrd's down there too.

Be nice to see a little more of the class warfare they've started with the McCain-house thing.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: siamesedreamer on August 23, 2008, 06:44:09 PM
Biden's a fucking badass. I've always liked him. Had he been the DEM nominee I probably would have voted for him.

Just don't get the pick since Biden represents just about everything Obama has been running against this entire campaign.

Best of both worlds?

Nah...Biden won't do anything to stop Obama from nuking the economy.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 07:07:03 PM
Bad pick, further chipping away at the reason everyday people are excited about Obama: a fresh face, nice guy, not a firebrand, who was right about the war.  I see the entire purpose of manipulating media hype over the pick--but putting the announcement so close to the convention--as an attempt to stop the possible hemorrhaging caused by this choice, which I guess is a strong tactical maneuver but also underscores how ridiculous it is.  I do however like the fact that this is another data point in my, "Obama is W'08" argument, but it's a Pyrrhic victory at best; you go with the candidate / President you have, not the etc etc you etc.

This 08 election is turning out weird--people are definitely charged up, but they're charged up about an enormously boring race that has been more about the utter unseriousness of the media, coupled by an endless cascade of gaffes and fumbles by everyone running.  The reality is completely overshadowed by the noise.


/disappointed

Picking a "fresh", inexperienced face would backfire more than picking a Washington "insider" - who actually isn't an insider. If he picked say Kaine people would complain about the youth and experience of the ticket. I would much rather have the media - because honestly they're the only people who'll complain about this - complaining about him picking an experienced, "old Washington insider" than have voters becoming even more worried about Obama's lack of experience

Biden is popular with the voters who will decide the election. He's going to secure Penn. and be very popular in Ohio and Michigan. There wasn't a better choice available. Obama said it best: he's spend decades bringing change to Washington, but Washington hasn't changed him.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 07:22:02 PM
Should I reply to your post here or on GAF? ;P
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: TVC15 on August 23, 2008, 07:38:26 PM
Bad pick, further chipping away at the reason everyday people are excited about Obama: a fresh face, nice guy, not a firebrand, who was right about the war.  I see the entire purpose of manipulating media hype over the pick--but putting the announcement so close to the convention--as an attempt to stop the possible hemorrhaging caused by this choice, which I guess is a strong tactical maneuver but also underscores how ridiculous it is.  I do however like the fact that this is another data point in my, "Obama is W'08" argument, but it's a Pyrrhic victory at best; you go with the candidate / President you have, not the etc etc you etc.

This 08 election is turning out weird--people are definitely charged up, but they're charged up about an enormously boring race that has been more about the utter unseriousness of the media, coupled by an endless cascade of gaffes and fumbles by everyone running.  The reality is completely overshadowed by the noise.


/disappointed

Picking a "fresh", inexperienced face would backfire more than picking a Washington "insider" - who actually isn't an insider. If he picked say Kaine people would complain about the youth and experience of the ticket. I would much rather have the media - because honestly they're the only people who'll complain about this - complaining about him picking an experienced, "old Washington insider" than have voters becoming even more worried about Obama's lack of experience

Biden is popular with the voters who will decide the election. He's going to secure Penn. and be very popular in Ohio and Michigan. There wasn't a better choice available. Obama said it best: he's spend decades bringing change to Washington, but Washington hasn't changed him.

I agree with PD.  Biden was a "diplomatic" pick.  While he's not some ur-liberal that will bring hope and change, he'll get more people to consider the Obama campaign.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 07:52:14 PM
I think that unlike Cheney:Bush, Biden does not add gravitas to the Obama Presidency.  Quite the opposite actually.  Biden's a hothead who loves to hear himself talk.  Cheney has said maybe three words in the last two years and one of them was a growl.  And then you get all the negatives of having a very strong, very opinionated VP to deal with--Obama's "Team of Rivals" fantasy that threatens to end up being a Clintonian circular firing squad.

Youth tickets do work.  Future of the party / future of America tickets do work (especially when they're pretty).  This isn't 04; with such an enormous positive public reaction in 08 to the idea of getting new blood, it's baffling why you'd want to preemptively hit the self-destruct button on it just because your enemy's only plus is his longevity.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 23, 2008, 07:56:36 PM
So who do you think he should have picked?
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 08:02:24 PM
I thought he was going to go with Bayh, and I thought that would be a good choice.  Ultimately though I would have been more ok with anyone who could reasonably be considered someone Obama thought shared his direction for the future of the party / America.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 08:32:57 PM
Youth tickets don't work when the vast majority of voters don't even think you're qualified to be president. Come on. Clinton was an established governor with executive experience. Same with Bush. Their VP choices were direct opposites though: Clinton doubled down on his positives (fresh face), Bush chose an established consigliere. Obama doesn't have executive experience and most voters aren't impressed with the experience he does have. I hate bringing race into this but I would argue that Obama has more ground to cover because he constantly has to prove himself to certain voters, who don't give him the benefit of the doubt they might give to someone else; that doesn't make them racist, they're just less trusting of this dude ("well I kinda like him, but what do we really know about him?").

Kaine has been governor for less than a term and hasn't done anything spectacular. Sebelius is a no name governor from a pure red state; she has an anti-gun history, she has tried to raise taxes on many occasions, and she has no foreign policy experience. Bayh was a very successful governor of a red state, he cut taxes...but he also co-chaired a committee for the liberation of Iraq with John McCain; Biden was initially wrong about Iraq but Bayh went overboard.

As Mandark said, Biden hasn't shown much interest in domestic policy - an area where most voters favor Obama. He shores up Obama's weakness on Iraq, he appeals to regular white working class voters, he's a brilliant debater, etc.

You're right: if Obama becomes president I'm sure Biden will have many passionate debates with Susan Ride and the rest of the fp team. But at the end of the day Obama will be making the decisions. Biden is going to offer wise advice. If anything he'll overshadow the Sec of State (Richardson seems like a timid guy who'd constantly be pushed to the side by Biden, for instance)
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: laesperanzapaz on August 23, 2008, 08:48:41 PM
PD you should become an EB exclusive.  Why do you bother with the GAF obama-circle jerk anayways
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 08:50:24 PM
If youth tickets don't work, then why is Obama the presumptive nominee?  They do work.  This is a perfect year for it to work.  Biden is a bad choice when it comes to message, and a bad choice when it comes to filling the office itself.  He's a fair choice to win the VP candidates' debate though.  Bravo.  As useless as the VP really is, at the very least try and use it to incubate / elevate your choice to lead the party when you're out of office; not someone whose positive soundbytes are going to be equally matched by the negative ones, and who might see his office as the Real Presidency he was never close to getting.



And if recent history has shown anything, it's the amazing benefit of having your Secretary of State overwhelmed by a VP with his own agenda.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Amir0x on August 23, 2008, 10:05:52 PM
Not many posts in here to judge by comparison, but PoliGAF was pretty infuriating today and this seems better tonight.  Nice to see SOME decent back and forth over here.  Too bad not many people are participating in this one.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 10:10:35 PM
Er, primary elections work differently than general elections. There are no caucuses to spam now, and decent youth turnouts no longer result in state blowouts at this stage. I'm not belittling Obama's primary successes, but we must realize this is a new game.

(http://tinyurl.com/4v8xap)

With respect to succession: if Obama serves 8 years Biden will be what, 73 years old? Who knows whether he'd run for president at that age, and if not guess what - Obama's got shit ton of buddies in the wing to take the job. All those candidates too inexperienced this year would be front runners to extend the Democratic Dominance. Warner? Kaine? Sebelius (lol Hillary)?  Bayh? Now that's a primary I can't wait to witness
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 11:13:44 PM
I don't think it's a compelling counter-argument to simply suggest, "it doesn't have to be that way."  I also question the relevance of your poll, when in fact it's Obama who will be running for President, and Obama who will be CIC.  I know the argument is that people are dumb, but the assumption that Biden will control foreign policy has its disadvantages, disadvantages that aren't represented in that poll (plus I don't believe I've been arguing it will cost him the election--just that it's a crappy pick on message, and a crappy pick for the office).  We can see how much that differential shifts when next week's polls come out however.

If "too inexperienced" is a disqualifier for the office of VP, how is it not an argument against an "inexperienced" President?  If your VP has a chance of running when your term is up, then choose someone who you feel represents the future of the party.  If he doesn't, then make sure he knows he isn't President.  If anything (well, "if anything" it should go to the runner-up, but that was nixed) the roles should be reversed, especially in the case where you have a relatively fresh political hand at the reigns: you want a strong President with a promising and independent VP with an eye on holding the Office in eight years; if you want active dissent, it's going to happen in your cabinet anyway.  Again, the last thing you want is a domineering VP who thinks he's President.  Honestly, this observation has gone from "lol he's like the Dem's Bush" to, "OMG they actually fucking WANT a Democrat version of W's Presidency!" It's kinda spooky.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 23, 2008, 11:21:39 PM
what sayeth you, Mandark?
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: AdmiralViscen on August 23, 2008, 11:23:00 PM
Not many posts in here to judge by comparison, but PoliGAF was pretty infuriating today and this seems better tonight.  Nice to see SOME decent back and forth over here.  Too bad not many people are participating in this one.

Thanks for the insight
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Fresh Prince on August 23, 2008, 11:26:30 PM
Quite the opposite actually.  Biden's a hothead who loves to hear himself talk. 
Same as McCain but it hasn't hurt his chances. I want McCAin to chose Bobby Jindal just because he's a crazy converted Catholic.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 11:27:28 PM
Thanks for the insight.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Fresh Prince on August 23, 2008, 11:31:40 PM
You still sore over Obama-is-the-antichrist thread?

Thanks for the insight.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: demi on August 23, 2008, 11:33:33 PM
David Spade is so snippy
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 23, 2008, 11:47:25 PM
You still sore over Obama-is-the-antichrist thread?

Thanks for the insight.

And you are...?
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 23, 2008, 11:48:01 PM
what sayeth you, Mandark?

I'm still basking in the afterglow of avoiding Evan Bayh.  Woulda been hard talking myself into that pick.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Fresh Prince on August 23, 2008, 11:51:05 PM
And you are...?
David Spade.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 24, 2008, 12:08:33 AM
what sayeth you, Mandark?

I'm still basking in the afterglow of avoiding Evan Bayh.  Woulda been hard talking myself into that pick.

I liked him until I found out about the Liberation of Iraq co-chair thingie, plus this

Quote
Yet on a chaotic election night in Indianapolis, when Clinton’s staff was panicking about the excruciatingly slow count of votes in Obama-friendly Lake County, Bayh seemed powerless to scare up inside information.

To the amazement of several Clinton insiders, he sat in a holding room, hunched over a laptop, hitting the “refresh” button over and over on a newspaper website’s interactive vote tracker in a state he was supposed to dominate.

“He’s a great guy, but he couldn’t even get the scoop on the results in his own state,” said a Clinton supporter who witnessed the scene. “He was just waiting around like everybody else. It seemed like he didn’t really have the juice we thought.”
http://www.politico.com/news/stories/0808/12629.html
 :-\
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 24, 2008, 12:20:01 AM
I liked him until I found out about the Liberation of Iraq co-chair thingie, plus this

He's definitely a hawk.  Not just that he's more comfortable with the use of force than I am but that he actively pushes the Democratic party in that direction.

He voted in favor of the Kyl-Lieberman amendment, wants to boot Russia out of the G-8, thinks it's a shame that Iraq has soured America on fighting wars (specifically one in Iran), and the opening salvo of his campaign was a foreign policy speech largely seen as targeting Hillary Clinton from the right.

Plus there's that whole DLC chairmanship thing.  That starts him off with a big deficit in my accounts.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 24, 2008, 12:32:40 AM
The Kyl-Lieberman amendment yay/nay list kinda gives you an idea of who did and didn't learn their lesson from the Iraq resolution.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: laesperanzapaz on August 24, 2008, 12:35:16 AM
Your insight is thanked
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: siamesedreamer on August 24, 2008, 01:50:03 AM
Watching Biden today you get a sense of why he was picked. He's going to be a great attack dog for Obama. But, at the same time, I think they run the risk where he could end up being so good at it that he completely overshadows the main dude who in effect looks like a complete pussy.

He already made one pretty huge gaffe that was overlooked, but the McCain people caught it. He said, "She [his wife] also has a doctorate degree which is a problem." Why the fuck would he said that? You know its going to be twisted just like the "100 years in Iraq" and "$5 million is rich".

Then there's foot in mouth moments like this:

[youtube=425,350]E9aIb-IplqY&eurl[/youtube]

I imagine we'll be seeing that quite a bit in the future...

Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: treythemovie on August 24, 2008, 05:28:56 AM
what sayeth you, Mandark?

I'm still basking in the afterglow of avoiding Evan Bayh.  Woulda been hard talking myself into that pick.

I was actually getting a little worried when it became clear that Obama was trying to decide between Bayh and Biden. Thankfully the media responded with love of Biden while Obama's base cried out "Anyone but Bayh!"
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: tiesto on August 24, 2008, 10:52:45 AM
I'm not a fan. Biden is the one responsible for the creation of the Drug Tsar, and he was one of the main supporters of the R.A.V.E. act. His positions on drug policy have set the country back decades.

:piss The RAVE act :piss2
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 24, 2008, 11:35:08 AM
Watching Biden today you get a sense of why he was picked. He's going to be a great attack dog for Obama. But, at the same time, I think they run the risk where he could end up being so good at it that he completely overshadows the main dude who in effect looks like a complete pussy.

Biden will throw the punches Obama can't connect - or can't even throw. I almost jumped out the car when he said "these times require more than a good soldier, they require a wise leader." It's essentially what Clark was saying, but without the chance of being misinterpreted/twisted/etc

Article on the VP process. Interesting points: Kerry advised Obama to really take his time and find a compatible partner ; Richardson was greatly considered; Biden's working class roots (past and present) were as important as his fp experience

And this is funny:
Quote
Mr. Biden, meanwhile, was viewed as undercutting himself with his own behavior as reporters staked out his Delaware residence. When Mr. Biden returned home in his white pickup truck from a garbage dump and made an off-color joke to camera crews last week, an e-mail message circulated among Mr. Bayh’s closest associates that read, “Keep talking Joe, please keep talking.”

He did not.
lol
http://www.nytimes.com/2008/08/24/us/politics/24deconstruct.html?_r=1&hp=&adxnnl=1&oref=slogin&adxnnlx=1219590305-SeaB+FtJ9yAFlo7ws03eEQ
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 24, 2008, 02:31:03 PM
That video is awesome  :lol
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: treythemovie on August 24, 2008, 02:57:44 PM
Quote
But Mr. Obama was seeking a running mate with whom he would be comfortable governing for four or eight years, a bit of advice Senator John Kerry of Massachusetts had given him.


lol Edwards


And personally I would be pretty shocked if a few of the other shortlisters didn't end up in Obama's cabinet
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 24, 2008, 03:38:19 PM
After some quickie research it looks like Biden is actually good on pocketbook issues (http://themiddleclass.org/legislator/joseph-biden-412) and has a 90% rating from the ACLU.  Plus he's co-written the mental health parity act (which is named after Paul Wellstone so it must be awesome) and seems decent on gay issues.

Mark Schmitt says Biden works hard to master the issues (http://www.prospect.org/cs/articles?article=learning_to_love_bidens_big_mouth) so maybe I sold him short on his interest in the domestic side.

But the Iraq war vote and the bankruptcy bill stick in my craw and I still say he's too hawkish.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: treythemovie on August 24, 2008, 04:12:22 PM
My mom told me she isn't voting for Obama now because of the Clarence Thomas thing.


Can I have her deported even though shes a US citizen?

She wasn't going to vote for him in the first place then. People who cite things like that as a reason to vote/not vote for someone are people who were just looking for an excuse to validate their baseless decision.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: TVC15 on August 24, 2008, 04:37:40 PM
My mom told me she isn't voting for Obama now because of the Clarence Thomas thing.


Can I have her deported even though shes a US citizen?

That's the reason I'm not voting for him now, either.  Slapping Thomas in the face was transitively the equivalent of slapping Long Dong Silver in the face.  smh, Obama, smh.

Plus Biden keeps sending me creepy text messages and pictures of down there.  I knew I shouldn't have given my phone number to the campaign. 
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 24, 2008, 04:41:26 PM
clarence thomas *is* an awful sc judge, though. obama is spot-on. the only place obama mis-stepped was in suggesting that scalia was smarter. frankly, there is no judge stupider than scalia -- sorry, obama.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: APF on August 24, 2008, 05:28:40 PM
Sounds like that wasn't a prediction, it was a promise.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: laesperanzapaz on August 24, 2008, 07:01:54 PM
You know, in the back of my mind I kinda wish Mccain wins.

The hilarity will be without precedent.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: TVC15 on August 24, 2008, 07:03:48 PM
You know, in the back of my mind I kinda wish Mccain wins.

The hilarity will be without precedent.

The GAF meltdown would be incredible.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Van Cruncheon on August 24, 2008, 07:30:09 PM
one week of lulz; four years of tearz
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Tauntaun on August 24, 2008, 07:31:20 PM
one week of lulz; four years of tearz

THERE WAZ ANUTHER CANDIDATE!  HONEST!

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FoC posts are easy.  ;)
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Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Fresh Prince on August 24, 2008, 07:44:12 PM
Being cynical I'd want McCain to win, he'll have a tough four years ahead of him with the economy, Russia, Iraq and Afghanistan. With that the American public would interpret Republican = failure for along time to come.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Positive Touch on August 24, 2008, 08:01:02 PM
they should've already got that message after the last eight years, but most people are just too dumb to learn
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Boogie on August 24, 2008, 08:04:22 PM
Being cynical I'd want McCain to win, he'll have a tough four years ahead of him with the economy, Russia, Iraq and Afghanistan. With that the American public would interpret Republican = failure for along time to come.

Beaten to it by Positive touch.

If McCain wins, it would mean that 8 years of Bush were not enough to make the American people interpret Republican = failure, then I highly doubt that four years of McCain would do the trick.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Fresh Prince on August 24, 2008, 08:19:21 PM
IMO the last eight years were really about Bush's inadequacy not the Republican party as a whole. Having McCain fail would indite the whole Republican party as something fundamentally wrong with their philosophy. It may get people to actually think about what the Republican party stands for.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: gibletsngravy on August 24, 2008, 08:25:56 PM
I'm not a fan. Biden is the one responsible for the creation of the Drug Tsar, and he was one of the main supporters of the R.A.V.E. act. His positions on drug policy have set the country back decades.

Not far enough. Kill up all dem druggies.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 24, 2008, 08:34:52 PM
clarence thomas *is* an awful sc judge, though. obama is spot-on. the only place obama mis-stepped was in suggesting that scalia was smarter. frankly, there is no judge stupider than scalia -- sorry, obama.

I've read/heard from a few people I respect that Scalia's very sharp when he's ruling on a case where no reactionary social values are at stake.  Stuff like "you should read his stuff on interstate trucking regulation!"  Nobody says stuff like that about Thomas.

OTOH a lot of liberals bend over backwards praising Scalia's (completely fictional) intellectual honesty and consistency.  I think there's an urge to reassure themselves that they're unbiased by singling out Worthy Opponents, even if those people are just wrong, dumb, and/or dishonest.  I keep hearing about how Newt Gingrich is a details-oriented wonk and every time I initially think the person is joking.


Speaking of the SCOTUS, Biden was chair of the Judiciary Committee when Bork got stonewalled.  Good on him.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Boogie on August 24, 2008, 08:36:06 PM
IMO the last eight years were really about Bush's inadequacy not the Republican party as a whole. Having McCain fail would indite the whole Republican party as something fundamentally wrong with their philosophy. It may get people to actually think about what the Republican party stands for.

Most unlikely.

I'm not a fan. Biden is the one responsible for the creation of the Drug Tsar, and he was one of the main supporters of the R.A.V.E. act. His positions on drug policy have set the country back decades.

Not far enough. Kill up all dem druggies.

:rock   :punch
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 24, 2008, 08:40:02 PM
one week of lulz; four years of tearz

Pretty much. Perhaps the best thing to hope for is a Dewey Defeats Truman error for the first few hours.

Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 24, 2008, 08:48:36 PM
Most unlikely.

Word.  Bush is completely emblematic of the current GOP philosophy.  McCain's doing okay because he managed to create an independent brand.  Republicans aren't going to do well this cycle and the long term demographic trends ain't pretty.

If Obama wins and the Dems pick up a few Senate seats I'm going to make an insufferably gloating "Who will save you now, GOP?" thread in which I'll mock Gingrich, Ross Douthat, Reihan Salam, and all the other would-be saviors with their vague and unrealistic blueprints for a comeback.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Phoenix Dark on August 24, 2008, 08:52:37 PM
You forgot someone

Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 24, 2008, 09:20:42 PM
Unlike the the armchair campaigners  I mentioned he actually has a following.

I'd like to see Huckabee get the nomination in 2012 and start to really fracture the party.  I probably shouldn't say that in case he wins, though.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on August 24, 2008, 11:09:32 PM
Huckabee is a fading star.  In a couple years, the religious right will have found a new savior to start hyping up for 2012 (assuming McCain does not win).  Although I would love to see him run as an independent to fracture the GOP, neutralizing the chance the religious right ever has of having a big hand in a major political party again, and to see the GOP in chaos.

A lot of people are misunderstanding the Republican base.  I remember a soldier telling Ann Coulter at a rally I went to that he would rather take a bullet than have John Kerry be the President.  Feelings about Kerry and 2004 set aside, there are a lot of far right wingers out there that would feel the same way about Obama, even if McCain were to absolutely obliterate the economy.  They may have disliked Bush but to vote for a Democrat would be sacrilegious.  So there won't be a "changing of opinions" if McCain fucks things up even worse.
Title: Re: Looks like it's Biden
Post by: Mandark on August 24, 2008, 11:26:01 PM
I don't think anybody is expecting the freepers and dittoheads to have a revelation.  Politics is done on the margins and even a broken, loser party in the US would pull in 40% of the vote.

The GOP could have a rabid base in the tens of millions and still be relegated to the same status as the Tories in the UK the last decade.