THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 10:48:10 AM

Title: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 10:48:10 AM
http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/wall_street.html (http://biz.yahoo.com/ap/080915/wall_street.html)
WOW

And the sick part is the CEO had an opportunity to sell off at least parts of the company (and possibly its entirity) to private equity firms awhile ago. I wonder what the FED will do now with one of the largest investment banks in the US in bankruptcy

Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: AdmiralViscen on September 15, 2008, 10:51:20 AM
Sarah Palin is gonna sort all this shit out, relax
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Bloodwake on September 15, 2008, 10:52:52 AM
Sarah Palin is gonna sort all this shit out, relax

lolz
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: ShogunOfFear on September 15, 2008, 11:42:37 AM
The government shouldn't do anything.  Bad businesses are supposed to fail.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Why didn't the feds bail out the Sega Dreamcast?
[close]
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 15, 2008, 12:06:42 PM
SARAH PALIN WHERE R U?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 12:29:44 PM
Oil was down about $5 a barrel last I checked.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Beardo on September 15, 2008, 12:33:27 PM
:piss bailouts
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Bocsius on September 15, 2008, 01:05:36 PM
Oil was down about $5 a barrel last I checked.


It is nice how the cost of gas moved up in lockstep unison with the price of a barrel of oil, but now that oil has dropped about a third from its highs, the cost of a gallon of gasoline has only moved about 10% (in my area). This, of course, was before the Ike overreaction this past weekend.

Anyway, back on topic, I was lurking the thread last night on that other board and checking the news wires with morbid curiosity. If I was any smarter about finance, I would probably be scared to death.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 03:52:23 PM
:piss bailouts
In general I agree, but the loss of liquidity from the loss of a AIG or Lehman type of firm, that has such a huge stake in the market presents alot of exposure to the rest of the market. Like Cohen said, is has the potential to be a meltdown of epic proportions. I was reading the Greenspan biography by Bob Woodward and it sounds like the FED did alot of this before, it was just done under the table or behind closed doors (i.e. guaranteeing the assets of a fledgling company without due diligence, just to preserve liquidity).

I kind of think that Fannie and Freddie were doomed from the start. They were inexplicitly guaranteed by the government, but still remained a publicly traded company. What incentive is their to please shareholders when the government has your back?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Great Rumbler on September 15, 2008, 05:10:51 PM
"Looks at all this money!! Hey, let's give out loans to people who won't be able to pay us back!"

*Later*

"Hey, what happened to all the money?!"
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: siamesedreamer on September 15, 2008, 05:13:30 PM
AIG (the world's largest insurance company) needs a $75 billion capital infusion to keep operating.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 15, 2008, 05:20:08 PM
The fundamentals of the economy are sound!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: y2kev on September 15, 2008, 05:29:44 PM
It's almost inconceivable to think about the sums of money being tossed around now. I thought it'd be funny if the internets staged a hostile takeover of Lehman for the lulz purposes (because the stock is embarrassing) but then I realized you'd still need 80 million dollars. 80 fucking million dollars.

To realize you are suddenly short 75 billion cause your balance sheet is a disaster is almost unbelievable. Almost.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 05:45:58 PM
AIG (the world's largest insurance company) needs a $75 billion capital infusion to keep operating.

Apparently the state of NY has offered AIG $20M, not sure of the specifics. Also read that the fed is orchestrating talks between Golmann and AIG
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: y2kev on September 15, 2008, 05:46:32 PM
AIG (the world's largest insurance company) needs a $75 billion capital infusion to keep operating.

Apparently the state of NY has offered AIG $20M, not sure of the specifics. Also read that the fed is orchestrating talks between Golmann and AIG

20 million?  :lol

And where the hell is Goldmann getting money from now? They're next!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 15, 2008, 05:49:17 PM
ms. nanny state, why didn't you tell me this trickle-down business would taste like diarrhea?

that's the spirit of the free market shitting its pants, dear. remember when uncle ronny touched you in the bad place in the 80s? this is what happens when you keep going back to the woodshed!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 15, 2008, 05:50:14 PM
goldman-sachs and morgan stanley have much, much more diversified portfolios. they had profitable quarters, even as their stock took a hit fom the inevitable end-of-trading panic.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 15, 2008, 05:51:04 PM
I wonder who is actually funding all these bailouts?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 05:51:34 PM
It must have been $20 billion, because the analysts on TV seemed to think that it was going to give AIG some time.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 05:52:37 PM
I wonder who is actually funding all these bailouts?
Well, in the case of the federal reserve bailouts, the fed has a portfolio of treasury bills and other securities that it draws resources from.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 15, 2008, 05:52:42 PM
experiment: taxpayers, dollar speculators, and, of course, china.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: y2kev on September 15, 2008, 05:53:18 PM
goldman-sachs and morgan stanley have much, much more diversified portfolios. they had profitable quarters, even as their stock took a hit fom the inevitable end-of-trading panic.

Still, Roubini has been saying that they could be in the major trouble within the next six months and he's been pretty accurate so far. Maybe they have diversified portfolios and are able to sustain losses that Lehman couldn't, but I'd like to see a negotiation just with GS and AIG produce 75 billion. There have to be other banks (European banks?) involved.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 15, 2008, 05:57:09 PM
I wonder who is actually funding all these bailouts?
Well, in the case of the federal reserve bailouts, the fed has a portfolio of treasury bills and other securities that it draws resources from.

I was wondering where they may be getting the securities from.  I thought they got all this from investment firms and financiers but with both crumbling, maybe they're getting it from elsewhere.

Also, what if China or any other nation decided to turn down the offer to loan the US money or buy their securities, bonds, etc.?

Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 15, 2008, 06:04:52 PM
^China could also cash in all the t-bills that it has stockpiled.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: y2kev on September 15, 2008, 06:06:28 PM
I wonder who is actually funding all these bailouts?
Well, in the case of the federal reserve bailouts, the fed has a portfolio of treasury bills and other securities that it draws resources from.

I was wondering where they may be getting the securities from.  I thought they got all this from investment firms and financiers but with both crumbling, maybe they're getting it from elsewhere.

Also, what if China or any other nation decided to turn down the offer to loan the US money or buy their securities, bonds, etc.?



If I understand correctly they just print money. The treasury will put out a shitton of securities to buy and the Fed will print money and buy them.

hello inflation?

^China could also cash in all the t-bills that it has stockpiled.
Do you mean treasury bonds? Aren't T-bills really liquid? Unless china was sitting on them just to lord it over us I don't really get it otherwise. The t-bills should be maturing every 4, 13, or 26 weeks.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 15, 2008, 07:02:20 PM
I wonder who is actually funding all these bailouts?

Who cares, this economy is all imaginary anyway.

YOU WERE WARNED ABOUT GOING BACK TO THE GOLD STANDARD BUT WOULDN'T LISTEN!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 15, 2008, 07:34:40 PM
the next six months are gonna be inflation-riffic, 80s style. thanks, reagan! can we get an evilbore party together to defile his grave?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: huckleberry on September 15, 2008, 07:38:56 PM
                                 :rofl

I can't wait for our next president.  You know....the one who admitted to knowing nothing about the economy.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 15, 2008, 07:40:12 PM
...and who was part and parcel of the s&l crisis of the 80s! omg, we've shortened the cycle of distinguished mentally-challenged american history!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Rman on September 15, 2008, 07:42:04 PM
WaMu just received a downgrade from S&P.  That's my bank.  I'll just ride this one through.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 15, 2008, 07:44:55 PM
What a FUN day in the Stockz
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Oblivion on September 15, 2008, 07:59:33 PM
I suppose as a contingency plan, Bush could always find the secret treasure via the hidden map on the back on the Constitution.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Rman on September 15, 2008, 08:05:28 PM
The good news is that New York City will probably slide back into the shithole it was as a result of this, providing our arts with a wellspring of creativity.
I wish.  Then my rent wouldn't be so high.  :-\

Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Rman on September 15, 2008, 08:08:19 PM
I know, my friend.  Both are global financial centers.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: siamesedreamer on September 15, 2008, 08:15:52 PM
The good news is that New York City will probably slide back into the shithole it was as a result of this, providing our arts with a wellspring of creativity.
I wish.  Then my rent wouldn't be so high.  :-\



Just become a US Congressman.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 15, 2008, 08:20:26 PM
I suppose as a contingency plan, Bush could always find the secret treasure via the hidden map on the back on the Constitution.

"Oh shit, I ripped it!  Dick?! Dick?! Where'd you put my crazy glue!?"
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Rman on September 15, 2008, 08:21:24 PM
The good news is that New York City will probably slide back into the shithole it was as a result of this, providing our arts with a wellspring of creativity.
I wish.  Then my rent wouldn't be so high.  :-\



Just become a US Congressman.
LOL.  I know who exactly you are refering to.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 15, 2008, 08:29:13 PM
We should've used all the money spent on mercs and Halliburton and bought Harmonix to fund freedom themed music games.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Tauntaun on September 15, 2008, 08:47:25 PM
The good news is that New York City will probably slide back into the shithole it was as a result of this, providing our arts with a wellspring of creativity.
I wish.  Then my rent wouldn't be so high.  :-\


I'm not kidding either.  New York and London are going to take it on their chins.

This should be good for my music career though yes?  :rock
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 15, 2008, 10:03:51 PM
Yeah, looks like I picked the right time to become a stand-up comedian/author. 
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: y2kev on September 15, 2008, 10:07:10 PM
AIG going tomorrow or wednesday lol
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 15, 2008, 10:27:18 PM
Gold is going up!

The gold standard will get us through this mess.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Rman on September 15, 2008, 10:54:51 PM
speaking of the gold standard, is foc still banned?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Rman on September 15, 2008, 11:24:44 PM
Asian markets are tanking.  It looks were going down together, guys.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 15, 2008, 11:26:22 PM
Pretty sure this is the LHCs doing
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 16, 2008, 01:01:02 AM
Is it wrong for me to wonder what would happen if US cities break down in anarchy as a result of this?

Not due to this alone but we're not through the recession yet.  A lot more is to come I'm sure.  Anything that has been purchased with credit will probably get impacted in some way, like cars, student loans, etc.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 16, 2008, 01:11:50 AM
Its not wrong if youre a cable tv producer tasked with creating a new made-for-tv movie.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 16, 2008, 01:12:31 AM
YES!!!

ONE STEP CLOSER TO THE RUNNING MAN!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 16, 2008, 01:22:12 AM
Its not wrong if youre a cable tv producer tasked with creating a new made-for-tv movie.

You don't think a little shake up is necessary?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 16, 2008, 01:26:14 AM
If it happens it happens, but whether its necessary is arguable.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 16, 2008, 03:11:57 AM
Even if there was a 'shake up' people would forget about it in 10-20 years anyway. Boom bust boom.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 16, 2008, 09:18:34 AM
You sure are confused, Borys.  The shitty deregulatory policies of your beloved Republican party are what has given birth to this fucking mess.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Eric P on September 16, 2008, 09:21:22 AM
what's great is that before yesterday mccain was always for deregulation

now he's for "regulation reform"

which i think is code of some sort, but i'm too dumb to figure it out
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Eric P on September 16, 2008, 09:21:33 AM
like "tort reform"
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Eric P on September 16, 2008, 09:21:50 AM
and "campaign finance reform"
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 16, 2008, 09:32:42 AM
Borys is a Republican that hates rich people?

You know what will solve this problem? A war, preferably world.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 16, 2008, 09:35:06 AM
If only the Third Reich was still around.  Nazis are so easy-to-hate.  We don't have enemies like the Nazis anymore.  Maybe we could clone Hitler!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 16, 2008, 09:40:36 AM
There'll be a way to blame Mahomoud Islamihazijabad in conjunction with the Russians. McCain\Palin all the way.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Eric P on September 16, 2008, 09:44:53 AM
we could hate the nazis because they represented everything we despised about ourselves!

they hated jews?  we did too!
they hated mudraces? we did too!
blond hair blue eyes the height of beauty? us too!
wanted to rule the world? us too!
hated the ascent of trash/inferior culture? us too!
hated communists and labor unions?  us too!
purported to be christian with christian ideals despite all evidence to the contrary?  us too!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 16, 2008, 09:46:37 AM
Too bad Germans love Obama  :(
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Eric P on September 16, 2008, 09:50:14 AM
well, they legally have to.

all german citizens must love non-white people.

it's an addendum to the "all nazi stuff is illegal"
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: DJ_Tet on September 16, 2008, 09:57:57 AM
Quote
Average Wall Street salary is $400K/ year (Goldman-Sachs employees had average $600K/ year), average New York salary is $60K/year.

be careful to not assume that all people who work in the city get those 400k/year salary, because that's not the case - those figures are skewed by the super high end earners.

95% of the people who will hurt from this are just average people doing the daily work to run these places.

It's like when they announce things like "Goldman bonus this xmas averages $800k!" and people assume that means everyone got an 800k bonus - lolllllll.... lol lol lol lol. NO. It's because the top level bonuses are so -insane- that it drags the averages up. Also - they don't include NO BONUS in those figures!

The people you are chastising and laughing at are already set up for life, it's the regular people who are well and truly shafted.

But yes, there's going to be a glut of unemployed people fighting for -very- few places right now. The next few days will be testing what with the last two brokerages about to announce their results. :/

No doubt, it's the same way when they talk about 'average' sports salaries.  They really should be talking about 'median' salaries and bonuses.

Of course, most people don't know the difference between average and median, and the 'average' is always more sensationalist so the media runs with that.  The average is really a meaningless number when talking about salaries and bonuses.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: y2kev on September 16, 2008, 10:29:46 AM
Median is literally the middle figure.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: jiji on September 16, 2008, 11:20:33 AM
I'm looking at moving to New York right now. Would this be a bad time? (I'm a PHP/database guy, CS degree).
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Eric P on September 16, 2008, 11:24:07 AM
i think that'd be pretty safe

just check things like monster and craig's list to get a feel for the jobs with your skill set

even unemployment agencies need database techs
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 16, 2008, 12:46:04 PM
I know McCain is too dumb to understand even a lick of economics but hey - what are Presidental advisors for!

You dumb bastard, the guy who he had tabbed as Secretary of the Treasury, Phil "Nation of Whiners" Gramm, has a lot of responsibility between being a senator and lobbyist for the shitty state of the financial sector today.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 16, 2008, 04:19:34 PM
It's like when they announce things like "Goldman bonus this xmas averages $800k!" and people assume that means everyone got an 800k bonus - lolllllll.... lol lol lol lol. NO. It's because the top level bonuses are so -insane- that it drags the averages up.

Up until a few years ago it was even worse because companies were not required to expense stock option packages that they offered to management for compensation.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 16, 2008, 06:20:10 PM
ms results? slashed workforce? what 'choo talkin' 'bout willis?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 16, 2008, 06:25:56 PM
oh, morgan-stanley.

goldman-sachs and morgan-stanley were MUCH more diversified than merrill-lynch, bear-stearns, or lehman bros. did anybody really think they'd fall? the other three crashed and burned for obvious reasons -- heavy, middle/high-risk investments in financials, and a company-wide bet on mortgage/housing-heavy portfolios.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 16, 2008, 06:26:37 PM
THERE IS ONLY ONE MS THAT MATTERS

AND THE XFE SHOULD KNOW THIS
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 16, 2008, 06:29:27 PM
I know McCain is too dumb to understand even a lick of economics but hey - what are Presidental advisors for!

You dumb bastard, the guy who he had tabbed as Secretary of the Treasury, Phil "Nation of Whiners" Gramm, has a lot of responsibility between being a senator and lobbyist for the shitty state of the financial sector today.

You mean Mr. Enron?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 16, 2008, 06:32:57 PM
I know McCain is too dumb to understand even a lick of economics but hey - what are Presidental advisors for!

You dumb bastard, the guy who he had tabbed as Secretary of the Treasury, Phil "Nation of Whiners" Gramm, has a lot of responsibility between being a senator and lobbyist for the shitty state of the financial sector today.

You mean Mr. Enron?

Yup.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Brehvolution on September 16, 2008, 06:37:15 PM
lol now all the financial people can know what it is like to get bumped from a job on the farm for 'lack of experience'. :lol
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 16, 2008, 07:55:15 PM
goldman-sachs and morgan-stanley were MUCH more diversified than merrill-lynch, bear-stearns, or lehman bros. did anybody really think they'd fall? the other three crashed and burned for obvious reasons -- heavy, middle/high-risk investments in financials, and a company-wide bet on mortgage/housing-heavy portfolios.
Not only that, they were also very highly leveraged. Kudos to MS for beating their earnings estimate.

I think their are some striking similarities between the credit crysis and the Drexel Burnham Lambert fallout in the 80s, minus of course the illegal activities (that we know of).
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 16, 2008, 08:09:59 PM
GM has been shit for awhile now, and I actually think that Rick Wagoner has done a pretty good job of keeping the dinosaur afloat. If there are firms that have significant exposure to GM, I have to think that they deserve everything they have coming. As for the overall financial fallout, I have no idea. I don't think it would be that significant in terms of liquidity, but it would cause alot of layoffs.

*edit*
I thought GMAC was the only part of GM not hemorrhaging cash?
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 16, 2008, 08:18:47 PM
goldman-sachs and morgan-stanley were MUCH more diversified than merrill-lynch, bear-stearns, or lehman bros. did anybody really think they'd fall? the other three crashed and burned for obvious reasons -- heavy, middle/high-risk investments in financials, and a company-wide bet on mortgage/housing-heavy portfolios.
Not only that, they were also very highly leveraged. Kudos to MS for beating their earnings estimate.

I think their are some striking similarities between the credit crysis and the Drexel Burnham Lambert fallout in the 80s, minus of course the illegal activities (that we know of).

I'm sure there are illegalities afoot.  All that cheap credit that came in rapidly, you know someone took a piece of it for themselves.
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 16, 2008, 10:29:37 PM
i can't wait to free fall into SOCIALIST ISLAND with my GOLDEN PARACHUTE!
Title: Re: Lehman Bros. files for Chapter 11
Post by: max_cool on September 17, 2008, 03:49:54 AM
85 billion divided by 300 million = 283.333333

and I never even invested in AIG. :(