THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 08:59:30 PM

Title: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 08:59:30 PM
Obama will repeatedly bring up other people endorsing his plans (Secretaries of State supporting talks with Iran, Maliki in favor of a timeline, Bush administration sending a negotiator to the Iran talks and conducting operations inside Pakistan) to make him look wise and well-versed by association.  Some of it will be a stretch, some will be on point.

McCain will probably bullshit on Iraq in several of the following ways:

* Talking about "extremists" or "militias" without defining them.

* Referring to Al Qaeda in Iraq as if they're the same Al Qaeda that executed the 9/11 attacks.

* Talking smack about Iran's interference in Iraq without mentioning Iran's strongest ties are with Dawa and ISCI, who are America's biggest allies and run the government in Iraq.  Bonus points for acting like Moqtada Al-Sadr is Iran's puppet.

* Surge surge surge surge surge surge surge.  I've already ranted on this one (http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?topic=24384).

* Framing the issue as victory/defeat without defining either.

McCain's gonna take credit for talking tough about Putin before it was in vogue.  Both candidates will talk about solidarity with Georgia without committing the resources to actually check Russia.  Be fun to see if they're pressed about NATO membership and Article Five.

McCain will drop at least one "naive", probably talking about someone not wanting to bomb someone else.  Might use "isolation" too.

Obama will bring up his speech against the Iraq war in the first place and will say "ten billion a month" at least once.  At least.

Generally, Obama's going to try to fudge the rules by bringing up the domestic economy more than McCain.

McCain will growl at Chavez and maybe Castro some.  Obama will say we need to change our Cuba policy but he'll hedge.  Obama might talk a bit about better diplomacy in South America generally, and bring up the fact that China's moving in and investing in infrastructure there.

Africa?  Lolz.  Both candidates will pay lip service to Darfur, framing the issue as one-sided abuse.  They both might call it genocide.  McCain will pat himself on the back for straight talk if he's the only one.

McCain will rear up on his hind legs, extend his claws, and make menacing gestures at Iran.  Expect him to bring up the bogus "wipe Israel off the map" quote.

Obama might say something nuance-y about free trade, cause all the wonks are now saying it's not the absolute positive they thought it would be.  McCain will be generically in favor.

McCain will bring up his idea for a new League of Democracies and it will be distinguished mentally-challenged.

I think that's it.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: radioheadrule83 on September 26, 2008, 09:03:10 PM
I want another question poised that makes McCain respond only with the names of advisors he knows, like that wonderful economic question Ron Paul asked him.

I'm in the UK... I hope this badboy gets recorded!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:12:08 PM
like you I am already mad about the "surge"

we are forcing Obama to admit that the surge "worked"?

so like, we're losing less than we were a year ago in a six-year war nobody wants that was started on false pretenses?

I dunno, it's like we're $500 in the hole and just got back $100 on a lucky bet and this is supposed to be evidence that we've turned the corner
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:16:12 PM
I'm betting shit devolves into MAD HOMO within twenty minutes.

Oh wait, this isn't a tauntaun vs. mupepe debate.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:19:57 PM
Schieffer just brought up the fiscal rescue as the first question, using an Eisenhower quote to pretend he wasn't bending the rules.  Fine by me.

But I'm kicking myself something fierce for not predicting the Main Street Wall Street catchphrase.  That was a gimme!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:21:30 PM
Schieffer just brought up the fiscal rescue as the first question, using an Eisenhower quote to pretend he wasn't bending the rules.  Fine by me.

But I'm kicking myself something fierce for not predicting the Main Street Wall Street catchphrase.  That was a gimme!

Lehrer, not Schieffer.  Wrong old white dude!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:22:09 PM
is this being liveblogged/transcripted anywhere? I'm stuck at work for another hour

EDIT: CNN.com is streaming it
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Oblivion on September 26, 2008, 09:22:49 PM
When do the debates start again?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:23:28 PM
All gentiles look alike to me.

McCain: "People losing their homes and their credits."  Their credits?  Were they playing the X-Men Arcade game and a brown-out made it reboot?

His initial answer on the rescue package was way more vague than Obama's.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 09:25:02 PM
Patel: It's being webcast here: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2008/09/18/politics/2008debates/main4457570.shtml

I'm watching now and neither candidate is actually answering Lehrer's actual question. Come on Obama, be better than this!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:27:34 PM
(http://images2.wikia.nocookie.net/muppet/images/8/8a/Twoheadedmonster.jpg)

WALL STREET

MAIN STREET

WALL STREET

MAIN STREET
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 09:29:22 PM
(http://www.muppetcentral.com/_images/sesame/two_headed_monster.jpg)

WALL STREET

MAIN STREET

WALL STREET

MAIN STREET


That's one thing I find weird about elections, they always introduce these terms and jargons that may be commonplace among certain policy wonk circles but are totally foreign to me, and then suddenly they're EVERYWHERE.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:30:49 PM
Bears in Montana!  Dammit!

If I had known this would become an economic debate, I would have totally called that.  Unless they turn back to foreign policy I'm going to be a failed prophet.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:31:07 PM
you probably don't want to bring up DNA studies John lol

I hate this fucking focus on "earmarks"

it's like 0.05% of government spending

I guess we aren't even pretending this is a foreign policy debate
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 09:31:51 PM
Yeah, they've barely even paid lip service to the whole "foreign policy" thing here. Though in their defense, who even cares today?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:33:41 PM
$932 million is like 0.01% of our bailout

let's talk about something real please
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:34:25 PM
McCain reduces every single issue to personal morality.

The current fiscal problem is because of "greed" and earmarks are bad because they "corrupt people".  Oy.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:34:38 PM
FINALLY!  FUCKING FINALLY SOMEONE CALLED HIM OUT ON THE EARMARKS BULLSHIT!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:35:38 PM
this cracks me up

"hey guys...this is a debate...feel free to debate each other...please?"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:37:03 PM
McCain brings up definitions of who's rich.  That's probably not a smart move.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:37:46 PM
not to mention McCain just said "go out and purchase their own health care"

let's get back to that

have we heard the argument that paying for your own health care encourages you not to get sick? I love that argument
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:38:48 PM
thank you Obama for kicking McCain's stupid $5000 health care tax credit ass
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:39:25 PM
thank you Obama for kicking McCain's stupid $5000 health care tax credit ass

Yeah, I was begging him to point out the dumbness of that.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 26, 2008, 09:40:25 PM
Gettin hot with the interjections
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:41:08 PM
McCain's wheezy, derisive laugh is just as bad as all of Al Gore's sighs put together.

The meme coming out of this better be "McCain is such a dick."
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:42:47 PM
SHOUT OUT TO MY CAR BUILDIN PEEPS IN O-HI-O-O-O

he also brings up the Chinese time travellers

Obama is kinda dodging the question - he's saying what he will buy, but not what he will give up
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 09:43:25 PM
I've never seen McCain speak before.  Not much of speaker is he.  He's a bit of an ass too.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:44:17 PM
oh man McCain laughing at his own joke was creepy

Obama had a great multipronged plan, McCain is like "uh...spend less"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:45:06 PM
"We need to cut spending."  Then he talks about earmarks and contracts.

He is completely unwilling to make hard decisions or deal with the math honestly.

Also, "most liberal record in the Senate."  I would have predicted all this!  I swear!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:46:30 PM
I'm moderately impressed with Obama's performance so far- less professorial than normal.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:47:51 PM
Uh oh- "spending freeze" trap card played by McCain.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 09:47:59 PM
THERE IT IS! THE $10 BILLION!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:48:13 PM
I like that Obama brought up the private compete-with-Medicare insurance subsidies.

That is one of the dumbest government programs ever.

"Using a hatchet when you need a scalpel."  Like that one.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:48:16 PM
oh my God McCain just threw out CRAZY SPENDING FREEZE ON THE ENTIRE GOVERNMENT

what the fuck
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:48:56 PM
THERE IT IS! THE $10 BILLION!

YES!

MIND-TAKING COUNTRY, BABY!  OOOOOOOOWEEEEEEOOOOOOO!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:49:36 PM
nuclear power is also important if we are ever going to have mobile suit technology

I'm voting McCain
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:51:14 PM
Come on Obama, bring up the "want to do for healthcare what we did for the banking industry" quote. 

DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT DO IT
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 09:51:19 PM
Hey McCain I think if you left medical coverage to the families, EVERYONE WOULD HAVE COVERAGE

It's not "federal government vs. families" it's "federal government vs. insurance companies"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:51:35 PM
oh man McCain brought up the "socialism" health care trap

bad week to bring up socialism
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:52:32 PM
McCain is super obsessive about spending spending spending veto spending
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:52:53 PM
McCain basically lying about Obama's health plan.  The government will tell you what doctor to go to!

BTW, McCain's $5,000 credit is indexed to inflation.  That means it would go up 2-3% per year.  Medical costs are going up 8-10% a year.  The value of that credit would shrink really fast.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 09:53:02 PM
Obama is smooth as fuck.  "spending orgy"  "jim, john", "when I'm president" 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:53:09 PM
oh man McCain brought up the "socialism" health care trap

bad week to bring up socialism

DA KOMRAD

Oh lawd there goes the "miss congeniality" crap again PUH LEEZE McLame.

OH HELL THE MAVERICK CARD.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 09:53:49 PM
Hahaha, McCain brings up all the points he voted against Bush on

And never once mentions the economy! THAT WAS THE QUESTION
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:54:03 PM
McCain is not known as Miss Congeniality. That's why he chose Sarah Palin as his vice president.

HAHA he just brought her up.

Obama totally owned him on that exchange.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:54:16 PM
"Miss Congeniality" is creeping up on "Maverick" as the empty boasting catchphrase du jour.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 09:54:46 PM
tell us how you won the Iraq war, McCain
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:55:01 PM
OH FUCK IRAQ QUESTION LETS GO MAKE UP SOME GROUND ON THESE PREDICTIONS
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 09:56:34 PM
OH FUCK IRAQ QUESTION LETS GO MAKE UP SOME GROUND ON THESE PREDICTIONS

Well, you already got points back on SURGE SURGE SURGE and vague notions of "winning" with "honor" in Iraq.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 09:57:39 PM
10 billion a year!  Yes!

Victory not defeat!  Yes!

Iranian influence!  Yes!

Surge worked!  Yes!

"Took our eye off the ball" HOW DID I MISS THAT ONE!?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 26, 2008, 10:00:01 PM
"you like to pretend that the war started in 2007"

"you were wrong on this, this, this, this"

Obamowned
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:00:18 PM
Oh shit Obama spitting fiah.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:00:30 PM
hahaha that delivery RULED
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:00:46 PM
here comes the STORY PITY PARADE
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 10:00:55 PM
Ok, if we're winning, when can we home DICK?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:01:06 PM
wow, what's up with McCain's non sequitir Fourth of July BBQ story
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 10:01:56 PM
this is exciting.  are all debates this good? 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 10:02:05 PM
wow, what's up with McCain's non sequitir Fourth of July BBQ story

 :usacry
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:02:45 PM
Wait, clear and hold?

I thought clear and hold was the old strategy circa 2005 which got replaced by "bribe tribal leaders to act as proxy forces".
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: AdmiralViscen on September 26, 2008, 10:03:38 PM
Why doesn't Obama point out that McCain was against that bill that would give troops more benefits after shorter tours?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:04:01 PM
"General Petraeus said Obama's plan was dangerous--" "That's not--" "Don't interrupt me when I'm lying!"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:04:27 PM
McCain is willing to lie like fuck.

Reminds me of the last GOP debate where Romney was ready to just up and deck McCain.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:04:48 PM
Why doesn't Obama point out that McCain was against that bill that would give troops more benefits after shorter tours?

or the new GI Bill

Mandark: You totally missed "snatch defeat from the jaws of victory" tsk tsk
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:06:00 PM
This is an area where my peacenik tendencies make me disagree with both of them.

More troops would help Afghanistan?  Sounds like surge jr. and I'd rather see a new strategy which includes a plan for leaving at some point.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:07:18 PM
Hey how does Obama know so much about Al-Qaeda and Pakistan

Could he be... SATAN a MUSLIM?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:08:06 PM
McCain doesn't want a repeat of Rambo III :usacry

spoiler (click to show/hide)
except in Iraq
[close]
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: AdmiralViscen on September 26, 2008, 10:08:27 PM
You don't say that! You only say bomb bomb Iran!

You don't talk to your enemies, you talk to the guys shooting at our choppers!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: thekavorka on September 26, 2008, 10:08:35 PM
Obama just got the support of the entire Indian population
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:08:46 PM
McCain is basically saying he agrees with Obama's policy but that you shouldn't say it out loud.

Which means he essentially just said it out loud.

...
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:10:04 PM
rock me dave petraeus
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 10:10:38 PM
YES 

BOMB BOMB BOMB IRAN
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: thekavorka on September 26, 2008, 10:10:44 PM
"songs about bombing iran"  :lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:11:08 PM
"We could just let them attack our troops, like McCain here wants..."

Like that framing.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:11:13 PM
OH DAMN OBAMA

BRINGING UP THE IRAN SONG SON
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 10:11:25 PM
McCain is basically saying he agrees with Obama's policy but that you shouldn't say it out loud.

Which means he essentially just said it out loud.

...


ya that was weird. 

You gotta do what you gatta do.  Just don't say it out load.  wtf?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:12:04 PM
(http://jcwinnie.biz/wordpress/imageSnag/Dr_Evil.jpg)

ten billllllion dollars
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:12:13 PM
Oh christ Reagan
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:12:23 PM
Oh no McCain invokes Reagan's Ghost
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:13:16 PM
http://www.wikiality.com/Ronald_Reagan%27s_Ghost
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:13:54 PM
Oh god Jon's going to get so many points for this story
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:14:12 PM
"You do what you gotta do.  Just don't say it where the Pakis can hear it."

"Senator McCain, they will be able to watch this broadcast."

"FUCK!"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:14:16 PM
Ronald Reagan's Ghost is like a Persona that any presidential candidate of the Republican Arcana can equip.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 10:14:19 PM
do Americans really buy this small town stories bullshit? 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:15:03 PM
jesus Obama is like, policy policy policy

McCain is like, sob stories galory

OH GOD BRACELET WAR
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:16:17 PM
McCain's going to emerge from this as the winner, unfortunately, even though he's, um, not.

Thank god the economy is the main focus of the last debate.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:16:35 PM
McCain is basically saying we should spend billions of dollars and thousands of lives because otherwise the lives we've already lost will seem wasted.

Good money chasing bad.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:17:51 PM
You know, McCain keeps bringing up these short visits to Iraq and Afghanistan as if they matter a lot.  I think he might mean it.

In his mind, Alaska's proximity to Russia might be a legit source of foreign policy authority.  Who knows.




O SHIT IRAN
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:18:29 PM
Haha, an existential threat? Are they all in danger of getting really morose?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 10:18:32 PM
LEAGUE OF DEMOCRACIES NUKKA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 10:18:33 PM
second holocaust! 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: radioheadrule83 on September 26, 2008, 10:18:47 PM
LEAGUE OF DEMOCRACIES :lol

Another one ticked off
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:18:58 PM
an existential threat to the state of israel

jews to get depressed and write poetry

EDIT:

Haha, an existential threat? Are they all in danger of getting really morose?
:interracial
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:19:09 PM
"An existential threat you say?"

(http://www.voltairenet.org/IMG/jpg/es-wwwSARTRE.jpg)
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:19:24 PM
EXISTENTIAL THREAT!  FUCK!

I would have gotten that but I (uncharacteristically) underestimated McCain's craziness.

LEAGUE OF DEMOCRACIES!  Making up ground!

SECOND HOLOCAUST!  Someone look up the applicability of Godwin's Law in meatspace.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:19:36 PM
Straight talk
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:20:01 PM
does McCain know about the UN
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 10:21:15 PM
Obama: I got a bracelet too  :lol

*smh* McCain attempts to reduce the debate to pure sentmentality
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:21:19 PM
does McCain know about the UN

He would but unfortunately it was Palin's job to write up a report on her field trip for him

F-, see me after class
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:21:26 PM
isn't it iran-ic
it's like 10,000 nukes
when all you need is a knife
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:22:00 PM
does McCain know about the UN
or NATO


or UNATCO (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNATCO#UNATCO)
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:22:49 PM
Obama was kind of floundering but "let's talk to people" is a good policy
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 10:23:11 PM
Russia isn't a democracy? 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:23:22 PM
does McCain know about the UN

McCain wants to ditch the UN and create a new multilateral institution.  It will have two qualities:

1) By being a forum for international diplomacy, its decisions will be much more legitimate than a unilateral action by the United States.

2) It will always acquiesce to whatever the US wants.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:23:26 PM
I wonder when someone is going to give some good justification as to why exactly it is that Israel is even allowed to be a "stalwart ally," or at least explain why this status is supposed to be taken at face value and without justification.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:23:55 PM
Ackmejenidendiahad
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:24:01 PM
McCain tried to name drop but the name dropped him

oh snap Obama just bench pressed akbananshechedan like it weren't no thing
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:24:42 PM
WIPE OFF THE MAP!  SCORE!

CHAVEZ!  SCORE!

CASTRO!  SCORE!

FIVE SECRETARIES OF STATE SUPPORTING OBAMA!  SCOOOOORE!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:26:01 PM
And isn't one of the most important tasks of the leader of the free world to act as a mediator and someone who changes shit for the better, even before the regime in question has already changed?

:gloomy Weener politicians of today.  :gloomy
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:26:13 PM
WIPE OFF THE MAP!  SCORE!

CHAVEZ!  SCORE!

CASTRO!  SCORE!

FIVE SECRETARIES OF STATE SUPPORTING OBAMA!  SCOOOOORE!

Are you updating the OP with your score?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:26:25 PM
man Obama is bitch-slapping McCain with the Iran issue
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:26:49 PM
YESS the Spain thing comes up
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 10:27:13 PM
OH SNAP SPAIN

OH SNAP OBAMA SEAL SNAP
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:28:16 PM
Preconditions are for pussies. Make change, you fucking pussy. McCain, weakest American ever.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:28:29 PM
I think McCain just flip flopped from his previous answer of like 3 minutes ago

and what's with the whispering
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:28:36 PM
NAIVE!  COUNT IT!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:28:44 PM
hahahaha ooooh spain
FEAR MONGERING
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:29:08 PM
those poor midget gooks, three inches shorter
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:29:31 PM
I wish I had a shitton of money so that I could launch a campaign that highlighted what a fucking pussy this McCain clown is.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: thekavorka on September 26, 2008, 10:29:50 PM
"3 inches shorter"?

 :lol


man, it's fucking scary if Palin has to deal with all this shit
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:29:56 PM
PRECONDITION PRECONDITION PRECONDITION

oh fuck reagan

wait what was jsut so funny?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:30:02 PM
Am I the only one who thinks it's a risky strategy for Obama to suddenly talk about how much the Bush administration supports his position?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:30:15 PM
hahahahhahaahha this is getting AWESOME
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 26, 2008, 10:30:16 PM
this is getting real hot
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:30:21 PM
And why in the fuck would they let him exit on that? Cunt moderator, pussy.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 26, 2008, 10:30:39 PM
also 900^^
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:30:47 PM
"mccain mccain john john JOHN MCCAIN SHUT UP GODDAMN IT I'M TRYING TO TALK"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:31:02 PM
I suggest:

"Everyone who's not lying through your teeth, raise your right hand above your head.  OH WAIT."
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:31:06 PM
Not that Obama is much better. Fucking tow-the-line uneducated moron. Let's help our ally Georgia! You know, the little shit for a nation that initiated the whole fucking thing.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Kestastrophe on September 26, 2008, 10:31:54 PM
oh shit Borys, the poles just got a shoutout from Obama
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:32:03 PM
oh man this rocks
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:32:52 PM
Obama with the nuclear non-proliferation chops!

Oh goddam how did I not include that one?  Grrrrr.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: brawndolicious on September 26, 2008, 10:33:24 PM
why did my cable box have to break right before they got to the big, juicy Iran subject?

Anyways, McCain isn't going to come out of the debate as the winner of any of the topics they talked about. All that he is doing is grabbing his ankles while trying to wave his bracelet.  The guy doesn't even have the best bracelet.  After Palin and the economy, people won't like bullshit sentimental appeals.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:33:26 PM
OMG why doesn't the moderator tell everyone that McCain is spreading misinformation! What the fuck is the point of having a moderator if he isn't going to control the flow of SHIT that the old coward spews?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:33:44 PM
Holy shit, this KGB stuff is the craziest thing McCain's said all night
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:33:58 PM
NAIVEITAY

Georgian lobbyists getting their money's worth
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 26, 2008, 10:34:00 PM
Best line was:

"You don't say that out loud!" (in reference to launching military operations in Pakistan)

It's like, McCain wanted to say:

"You don't say that out loud! ... you wait and then do it behind their backs, like a NORMAL President!"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:34:11 PM
Not that Obama is much better. Fucking tow-the-line uneducated moron.
please tell me that's sarcastic
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:34:18 PM
I love his cold war fear mongering
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:34:59 PM
I'm like 20 seconds behind you guys :(

why is McCain inviting Estonia into NATO? He should let them into his League of Democracies!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:35:11 PM
Best line was:

"You don't say that out loud!" (in reference to launching military operations in Pakistan)

It's like, McCain wanted to say:

"You don't say that out loud! ... you wait and then do it behind their backs, like a NORMAL President!"

I know!  And in telling us that, he wound up... SAYING IT OUT LOUD!

 :duh :duh :duh :duh :duh :duh
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:35:36 PM
So, the people in the region want to be Russian, and McCain wants to support the Georgians in keeping the people from getting their wishes?

Not that Obama is much better. Fucking tow-the-line uneducated moron.
please tell me that's sarcastic

Not really. I don't actually think he's uneducated on the matter, but he's towing the safe line here, and in the process talking absolute shit about the Georgia-Russia situation.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 10:36:04 PM
Wait wasn't McCain saying saying anything incendiary about foreign nations (potential allies) was un-presidential and now he's basically calling Russia = KGB.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:36:59 PM
AAARGH
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:38:26 PM
So, the people in the region want to be Russian, and McCain wants to support the Georgians in keeping the people from getting their wishes?

I think Saakashvili is pretty responsible for what happened, and there are some thorny issues of ethnic nationalism and sovereignty, but that simplification kind of warps the issue.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:38:39 PM
This shit really highlights how similar these shit parties really are. Does anyone have that presidential debate from Futurama handy?

So, the people in the region want to be Russian, and McCain wants to support the Georgians in keeping the people from getting their wishes?

I think Saakashvili is pretty responsible for what happened, and there are some thorny issues of ethnic nationalism and sovereignty, but that simplification kind of warps the issue.

I know, I'm just using his own arguments here.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Madrun Badrun on September 26, 2008, 10:38:50 PM
lol at the putin poster in Georgia.  Doesn't that tell you something mcCain?

Also Obama getting back into energy policy :bow2
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:41:29 PM
This shit really highlights how similar these shit parties really are. Does anyone have that presidential debate from Futurama handy?

They've been looking daggers at each other over 90% of the topics.

I think they're both kind of dumbing it down on Georgia, but there are some wiiiiiiiiiiide policy differences here.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:42:30 PM
when the moment demanded it...McCain formed a committee!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: radioheadrule83 on September 26, 2008, 10:42:49 PM
Fuck that Iran segment was annoying...

"Obama wants to sit down opposite Achmedinejad"

"No, what I said was I'm not against TRYING to talk to people (like the Iranians), opening a channel of communications to try and solve problems"

"You wanna sit down and let him say he wants to blow up Israel?"

"No... what I said what"

"Achmedinejajdajdjaj..." *smirk* "wipe Israel off the map. Legitimise comments"

"..."


You know what? I wish Obama had brought up Britain and the IRA. It wasn't until the British opened up a secret channel of communications with the IRA that the peace process was able to materialise, that the troubles and the bombings subsided. And we had US involvement there too. Communicating works. When it comes to the nuclear issue, Iran are just trying to play hardball. Make no mistake they want a deal, and they don't want war with anyone.

And this Georgia shit... Georgia attacked South Ossettia... they may have been provoked, but they were warned, Saakashvili SHOULD have known better.

Obama's done ok here, but I do wish he'd do more than "John... thats not true"... and I wish this dude would let him get his corrections in before going to the next question(s).
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:43:27 PM
Obama's more specific in his first 10 seconds than McCain was in his entire answer.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:44:04 PM
This shit really highlights how similar these shit parties really are. Does anyone have that presidential debate from Futurama handy?

They've been looking daggers at each other over 90% of the topics.

I think they're both kind of dumbing it down on Georgia, but there are some wiiiiiiiiiiide policy differences here.

I guess it's a matter of perspective. I grew up in a system with lots of minor parties and two major parties, but neither of the two were really ever powerful enough to form governments without forming alliances with other parties. This seems almost like a parody of democratic politics to me.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:45:21 PM
thank you Obama for bringing up the fact America's reputation is shit

wow, Star Wars won the cold war!

also it's strange that McCain has returned to "Obama wants us to lose in Iraq"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:46:00 PM
loss of fragile american blood and treasure and baby tears  :usacry
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:46:34 PM
why do you want us to lose, Obama
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:46:35 PM
Obama's done ok here, but I do wish he'd do more than "John... thats not true"... and I wish this dude would let him get his corrections in before going to the next question(s).

That's what the moderator should be doing.

"Russia attacked Georgia, and..."
"Now hold on there just a second, Maverick. That's not exactly how it went down, and I think you know that. Let's have a smart debate, eh?"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:47:01 PM
"And that is the central issue of our time"

(oh god please let it be the central issue of our time)
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:47:18 PM
You know, while I appreciate the "Al Qaeda hit us, Iraq didn't" framing, I don't think Al Qaeda is even that important.

 :shh
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:49:17 PM
Russian invas- er, "aggression" in Georgia. Also, the surge was Jesus Christ in soldier form.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 10:49:21 PM
OH MAH GAWD MAH HEAD DONE JUST ASPLODED
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:49:48 PM
McCain is now saying that the US needs a president who's flexible and not dogmatic, like himself.

He is personally trolling me.  I know it.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 26, 2008, 10:50:06 PM
McCain is winning!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 10:50:11 PM
Won't somebody think of the Veterans!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:50:11 PM
How in the hell is a P.O.W. going to keep anything secure? He couldn't even stay in the air, nor did he hatch a successful plan to escape.

McCain is now saying that the US needs a president who's flexible and not dogmatic, like himself.

He is personally trolling me.  I know it.

Feels like, it doesn't it?

Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:51:43 PM
McCain was a P.O.W.?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:51:53 PM
Well, that's the shittiest debate ever. Why in the hell wasn't Ignatius a moderator?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 26, 2008, 10:52:09 PM
I think it was a slight McCain victory
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:52:50 PM
Obama gave infinitely better answers, but McCain was taking the asshole offensive
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: radioheadrule83 on September 26, 2008, 10:53:02 PM
Jesus... did McCain have it contracted to have the last filthy word on everything? When its not lies or misrepresentation from him, which the moderator sucked at calling out and allowing Obama to address, its hammy patriotic stories that try to appeal to sentimentality...
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:53:15 PM
I think it was a slight McCain victory

In the eyes of uneducated morons, yes. You know, the idiots who actually take the shit he says as the truth, when it's anything but. Motherfucking Christ, how in the hell can a debate situation allow him to get away with talking so much shit Fuck
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:53:42 PM
I think it was a slight McCain victory

Depressingly, I have to agree. I don't think he won on logic or points or anything, but I think the nonsense he was spouting is going to go over with undecided voters better than Obama's attempt at being reasonable. It was depressing to think about.

BUT THEN Lehrer reminded us all that the VP debates are on Tuesday and suddenly I felt a lot better!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:53:56 PM
McCain was a P.O.W.?

How did I not include that in my predictions!?

I'm going to give myself a point, on the grounds that it went without saying.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:53:59 PM
Jesus... did McCain have it contracted to have the last filthy word on everything? When its not lies or misrepresentation from him, which the moderator sucked at calling out and allowing Obama to address, its hammy patriotic stories that try to appeal to sentimentality...

Hasn't it always been like that, republicans getting the last word? I seem to remember being pissed about that in the other "debates" (LOL) of past elections.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:54:21 PM
Also, Lehrer let McCain have the last word for everything.  Fuck that.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:54:52 PM
And now the downside of watching this on PBS...  David Brooks.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:55:11 PM
Debate. LOL.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:55:34 PM
Also, Lehrer let McCain have the last word for everything.  Fuck that.

Isn't that because Obama got to speak first on most things? I think that's just down to the coin toss at the beginning.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 10:56:14 PM
Also, Lehrer let McCain have the last word for everything.  Fuck that.

Isn't that because Obama got to speak first on most things? I think that's just down to the coin toss at the beginning.

Which is, really, a bunch of crap. The debate points should end when the topic has been exhausted, irrespective of who gets the last word.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:56:24 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:56:36 PM
Seriously, why not Ignatius? Wrong network? Well then burn this network.

Which Ignatius?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:56:52 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:56:57 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:57:07 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 10:57:15 PM
but MAF don't you think--
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:57:26 PM
uh maf that isn't true
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:57:32 PM
maf
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 26, 2008, 10:57:36 PM
I don't think the numbers are gonna swing much either way. Both groups heard what they wanted to hear.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:57:45 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:57:49 PM
mr angry face that
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:58:02 PM
maf if you'd just
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:58:09 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 10:58:15 PM
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 10:58:26 PM
please if i could
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 10:58:30 PM
I wish Obama addressed Iraq more forcefully, something along the line that a 'win' for the US is not the issue but self determination for the Iraqi people is or some other bullshit.

I think anyone with an IQ of 100 would have to give that to Obama. I mean you can fall for McCain lies and sentimentality but he just contradicted himself so many times.  
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 26, 2008, 10:58:37 PM
First thing's first, I agree fundementally with Maf.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 26, 2008, 10:58:52 PM
I think it was a slight McCain victory

In the eyes of uneducated morons, yes. You know, the idiots who actually take the shit he says as the truth, when it's anything but. Motherfucking Christ, how in the hell can a debate situation allow him to get away with talking so much shit Fuck

It is about perception.  McCain took the stance of aggressive reform and Obama tried to use the rational approach.  As a result, McCain sounded more decisive, even if it was blatantly false, than Obama did.  Obama did draw first blood but McCain kept hitting back Obama...with lies.  The best thing about lies is that you can make up whatever the fuck you want.  People aren't going to research McCain's lies.  On that screen, it looked like McCain took the tough but somewhat sacrificial stance.  Obama, did not.

At the same time, Obama handled himself well.  He was able to locate some of his balls and made some nice hits.  In the end, McCain tried to bring sentimentality to it.  McCain had the years of Senate and his POW experience.  Obama had his father in Kenya.  In the emotional argument arena, McCain won.

Like I said, it was a slight McCain victory.  He didn't kill Obama nor was it a tie.  McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 10:59:59 PM
I wish Obama addressed Iraq more forcefully, something along the line that a 'win' for the US is not the issue but self determination for the Iraqi people is or some other bullshit.

I think anyone with an IQ of 100 would have to give that to Obama. I mean you can fall for McCain lies and sentimentality but he just contradicted himself so many times. 

After Adlai Stevenson gave a speech in 1952, someone yelled "You have the vote of every thinking American!"

Stevenson said "Thanks, but I need a majority!"

Might be apocryphal, was kind of a dickish thing to say, but you know.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: trh on September 26, 2008, 11:01:21 PM
McCain's such a fucking condescending asshole, fuck him.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 26, 2008, 11:01:37 PM
Folks are giving McCain the edge on account of his superior handling of the foriegn policy section of the debate.

LOUD NOISES!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 26, 2008, 11:03:46 PM
Good thing the VP debate is on Tuesday to totally neutralize and then some of McCain's inevitable gains in the polls that we will be seeing come Monday.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:04:53 PM
McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

Right, but as you say, it's all based on lies. It's squarely because for some god damned reason, this man is allowed to talk out of his ass and get away with it without so much a slight breeze of doubt. It's not exactly a remarkable effort to hold one's own when one apparently has the right to distort world events to fit one's arguments.

Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 11:05:16 PM
There are a number of points Obama should have interrupted McCain like when McCain said< 'Oh so you're going to tell Iran that they should not bomb Israel' Obama should've of just said, 'No I'm going to say get ready of world war III nukka!'.

But as MAF says
TALKING LOUD AND NOT STOPPING IS THE SUPREME DEBATE STRATEGY I HAVE LEARNED MUCH ABOUT AMERICA
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 11:06:17 PM
McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

Right, but that's squarely because for some god damned reason, this man is allowed to talk out of his ass and get away with it without so much a slight breeze of doubt. It's not exactly a remarkable effort to hold one's own when one apparently has the right to distort world events to fit one's arguments.

Yep yep yep yep which is why I keep telling people not to count Palin out.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:06:52 PM
I just don't get the debate format, or why in the hell there is even a moderator present. Any snotnosed twit could have moderated that debate just as well as that old fart.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 11:07:55 PM
Duckman says the truth. Reality is dead.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 11:08:40 PM
McCain held his own far better than a lot of people thought.

Right, but that's squarely because for some god damned reason, this man is allowed to talk out of his ass and get away with it without so much a slight breeze of doubt. It's not exactly a remarkable effort to hold one's own when one apparently has the right to distort world events to fit one's arguments.

Yep yep yep yep which is why I keep telling people not to count Palin out.

Yeah, but you have to do it IN A COHERENT MANNER.  You can talk bullshit as long as it sounds like it's plausible on this planet.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:10:11 PM
Seriously, why not Ignatius? Wrong network? Well then burn this network.

Which Ignatius?

David Ignatius. Give that man the right to call them on their shit, and we'd probably have a good debate. Maybe not, but it couldn't be worse than what we got.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: radioheadrule83 on September 26, 2008, 11:11:33 PM
I was watching the feed on the CBS website... we're all cynically believing people are dumb enough to believe that McCain had a slight edge, but when they went to the monitoring studio, the people on the Nielsen machines were mostly Obamaniacs after the fact.

I still got some hopium left in me.
Do the right thing :usacry
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 11:12:11 PM
It is rather remarkable, however, that McCain actually had to hold his own, especially on foreign policy.

Shouldn't the experienced maverick (Ready on Day One™) be dominating?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 11:13:14 PM
I was watching the feed on the CBS website... we're all cynically believing people are dumb enough to believe that McCain had a slight edge, but when they went to the monitoring studio, the people on the Nielsen machines were mostly Obamaniacs after the fact.

I still got some hopium left in me.
Do the right thing :usacry

I also enjoyed Couric offhandedly mentioning right after that she called up Kissinger and yep, Obama was right.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 26, 2008, 11:13:32 PM
Why can't we have an independent fact check basically tell the audience what is and what isn't a lie after each segment?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: trh on September 26, 2008, 11:14:15 PM
Watching CNN live stream, they have an undecided voter on the line saying that she's now leaning more towards Obama due to McCain's negative attitude, amongst others. WEEEEEEEEEEEEE

ONE PERSON WOO! (it's good to hear though)
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:15:03 PM
McCain basically "wins" based on the remarkably low expectations of his performance. It's like the slow kid on the team getting lavished with praise for finally pulling off a not-completely-shit performance, praise that eclipses the greater efforts of the sure bets. Even if he had to cheat to get to even that position, it's still a remarkable performance. Too cynical? I don't think it's possible to be too cynical at this point.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 11:15:45 PM
Why can't we have an independent fact check basically tell the audience what is and what isn't a lie after each segment?

Well, all the websites and shit have fact checks, as do the tv shows but it's up to people to seek it out.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 11:15:51 PM
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

jesus
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:16:16 PM
Why can't we have an independent fact check basically tell the audience what is and what isn't a lie after each segment?

The insane thing here is that this would be seen as the insane idea. When in reality, this is how it should be. That's why I'm pissing on the whole system here. You have a moderator present, for what? Keeping things within their allotted slots, and what else? He's certainly not there to keep things real, that's for damned sure.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 11:17:48 PM
Biden is doing some spin and is completely schooling McCain on how to be an effective asshole.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:18:26 PM
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

jesus

So, they are relying on Obama agreeing with McCain to win? Doesn't that make Obama the winner? McCain needs Obama, huh?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 11:18:38 PM
http://firstread.msnbc.msn.com/archive/2008/09/26/1456269.aspx

jesus

The great thing about that ad is that it suggests Barack Obama isn't ready to lead... because he agrees with McCain on anything
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 26, 2008, 11:18:56 PM
Biden is doing some spin and is completely schooling McCain on how to be an effective asshole.

Should have just let Biden do both debates.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fresh Prince on September 26, 2008, 11:20:12 PM
I don't know how to feel. If the bar is so low for McCain's 'strength', Palin's got the next debate in the bag.




Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 11:22:05 PM
Hannah Taylor on CNN, fucking moron ireporter. HE SHOWED HIS KNOWLEDGE. God damnit. She sounds stupid on the phone too!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: radioheadrule83 on September 26, 2008, 11:23:55 PM
I do wish there could be a few caveats in future debates:

- don't use an unverifiable or irrelevant anecdote.
- don't resort to snooze-fest POW story telling.
- if your opponent interjects saying you are lying, they should get to explain how and why you are lying or distorting their position. Its only fair. Don't just repeat yourself and talk over them at a louder volume. You ain't Bill O.

Will there be a seperate debate on economic issues?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 26, 2008, 11:26:54 PM
Will there be a seperate debate on economic issues?

Yeah, it's scheduled to be the last one I believe.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 11:27:09 PM
Dont use a moderator almost as old as McCain.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 26, 2008, 11:30:16 PM
McCain basically "wins" based on the remarkably low expectations of his performance. It's like the slow kid on the team getting lavished with praise for finally pulling off a not-completely-shit performance, praise that eclipses the greater efforts of the sure bets.

so mccain is like uncharted
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Positive Touch on September 26, 2008, 11:30:45 PM
Dont use a moderator almost as old as McCain.

next moderator is brokaw, i think
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: drohne on September 26, 2008, 11:30:54 PM
american political rhetoric is so irritating. the logical responses to statements like 'to speak to president ahmedinejad is to legitimize his views on israel' are for some reason off limits. i don't know whether this is because of the tacit political assumption that americans are cretins or because americans are, in fact, cretins. i don't know why i watch these debates. they only reinforce my political apathy.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 11:32:58 PM
David Ignatius. Give that man the right to call them on their shit, and we'd probably have a good debate. Maybe not, but it couldn't be worse than what we got.

David Ignatius?  Who writes a column in the op-ed section of the Washington Post?  That guy?  Really?

Maybe he's different on TV, but I've always thought of him as David Broder lite.  Not great on details and has a hard-on for bipartisanship.  If you're not crazy about the current Republican-Democrat duopoly, I don't think he'd be you're man.

But that's just the impression I've gotten from his print stuff.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 11:33:06 PM
REPUBLICAN GOV THINKS MCCAIN DID BEsT MORE AT 11 OMG
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 11:40:18 PM
american political rhetoric is so irritating. the logical responses to statements like 'to speak to president ahmedinejad is to legitimize his views on israel' are for some reason off limits. i don't know whether this is because of the tacit political assumption that americans are cretins or because americans are, in fact, cretins. i don't know why i watch these debates. they only reinforce my political apathy.

Little bit of column A, a little bit of column B.  There's an expression in politics: "If you're explaining, you're losing."

Foreign policy debates are always dumber than domestic debates, because the public doesn't have daily contact with the relevant issues and can be easily duped and terrified by this sort of bullshit.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 11:41:38 PM
McCain can name lots of countries he must be AWESOME
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 26, 2008, 11:47:45 PM
McCain can name lots of countries he must be AWESOME

He can also name all but one of Iran's current presidents.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on September 26, 2008, 11:49:07 PM
Quote
McCain can name lots of countries he must be AWESOME

didn't watch the debate, but are you basically saying McCain = Antichrist (http://slacktivist.typepad.com/slacktivist/2007/01/lb_boutros_bout_1.html) confirmed???
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Akala on September 26, 2008, 11:49:32 PM
Pretty meh debate IMO. First Obama couldn't get the old coot off of his earmark speil, then it just kind of trailed off. At least there is some venom flowing from these two, something missing from most of the Bush/Kerry debates (not counting undertones).

I honestly feel that this debate was something of a draw, if not slightly edging toward McCain. There was that brief period where McCain went off on him (talking to Iran). That gives me a very great hope that Johnny may fly off the handle more in the next one. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I want the return of SNL Hulk comparisons that sunk his first run! I want another fucking Howard Dean caliber YEEHAW clip!
[close]

After seeing Biden after the debate on CNN, my anticipation potential for schadenfreude for next week's VP depate is beyond words.  :hyper
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 26, 2008, 11:51:13 PM
The general consensus of the punditocracy appears to be that it was either a tie, a slight McCain advantage or an Obama win.  But NOT a big McCain win, which could have happened because "foreign policy is his arena" or some shit.

So considering that McCain was behind going into this, I don't think it was the game changer he needed.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Rman on September 26, 2008, 11:53:26 PM
I don't think McCain convinced many of undecided voters tonight.  He needed a slam dunk and he failed.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 26, 2008, 11:56:38 PM
maybe i'm too attuned to mccain's bullshit, but he seemed to be all over the place. i can't figure out how you'd call this a win for him, unless stridency is the only qualifying factor
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 26, 2008, 11:59:40 PM
best part of the debate was obama just goin bam you were wrong you were wrong you were wrong...that or spain lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 12:10:18 AM
maybe i'm too attuned to mccain's bullshit, but he seemed to be all over the place. i can't figure out how you'd call this a win for him, unless stridency is the only qualifying factor

This is the problem.  I was ready to yell "THAT IS NOT TRUE!" at the TV about two dozen different times, but I waste a lot of time on this crap.

The post-debate commentary always focuses on who "won" which seems to mean who made the best impression on the public.  That's kind of bizarre, because the commentary is being AIRED ON TELEVISION TO THE PUBLIC.

Rather than have talking heads guess what they think, wouldn't the American people be better served by someone actually using that time for fact-checking and providing the relevant context?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Akala on September 27, 2008, 12:12:21 AM
Rather than have talking heads guess what they think, wouldn't the American people be better served by someone actually using that time for fact-checking and providing the relevant context?

Wouldn't that be great?
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 27, 2008, 12:13:12 AM
maybe i'm too attuned to mccain's bullshit, but he seemed to be all over the place. i can't figure out how you'd call this a win for him, unless stridency is the only qualifying factor

This is the problem.  I was ready to yell "THAT IS NOT TRUE!" at the TV about two dozen different times, but I waste a lot of time on this crap.

The post-debate commentary always focuses on who "won" which seems to mean who made the best impression on the public.  That's kind of bizarre, because the commentary is being AIRED ON TELEVISION TO THE PUBLIC.

Rather than have talking heads guess what they think, wouldn't the American people be better served by someone actually using that time for fact-checking and providing the relevant context?

WHAT ARE YOU SOME SORT OF COMMUNIST I NEED PAT BUCHANAN TO THINK FER ME

Buchanan actually just mentioned that post debate perception can be shaped by pundits, citing a Reagan-Mondale debate as an example.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 27, 2008, 12:14:59 AM
the conservative wsj set thinks obama won. even the usually anti-obama comments there are pretty respectful.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/26/who-won-friday-nights-debate-on-foreign-policy/
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 27, 2008, 12:18:33 AM
Yeah, there be some fuckers over on GAF who are freaking the fuck out about it, thinking McCain won hands down.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 27, 2008, 12:19:12 AM
i think it's only a few media contrarians and hand-wringin' colllege twat libruls what think mccain won.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 12:19:47 AM
For the millionth time, I kind of like Buchanan as a pundit (AS A PUNDIT)*.  He's a crazy bigot but he's willing to say what he thinks without relying on talking points from GOP HQ and to be totally upfront about the practice of ethnic identity politics.




spoiler (click to show/hide)
*AS A PUNDIT
[close]
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Rman on September 27, 2008, 12:20:17 AM
Where's PD?  He usually loves these threads.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: TakingBackSunday on September 27, 2008, 12:21:12 AM
What's Buchanon saying about the debate?  Dad's watching Prison Break right now.

edit: PD ODed on hopium
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 12:23:24 AM
the conservative wsj set thinks obama won. even the usually anti-obama comments there are pretty respectful.

http://blogs.wsj.com/washwire/2008/09/26/who-won-friday-nights-debate-on-foreign-policy/

The moneyed George Will Republican set has kind of soured on McCain recently, thanks to Palin and his flailing around during the financial crisis.

Garrison Keiller had a line about Bush and his cronies, saying that back in the day you could at least count on the GOP to keep the balance books in neat order.  Some people are having a "should this guy have his finger on the button?" moment with McCain, only with the economy.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 27, 2008, 12:32:37 AM
BIDEN SPITTIN MAD BALLS OF HOT FIYAH

[youtube=425,350]3QdT-xMe2-s[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QdT-xMe2-s
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 12:37:14 AM
As soon as Biden started talking I started TiVoing.  The man can play the dozens with anyone in American politics.



And can I just say what a crock of shit it is that Obama gets flack for his answer in the Youtube debate about meeting with foreign leaders?

Most of the time he's criticized for being too "professorial", using linguistic placeholders while he tries to find the best possible word and overexplaining.

The one time he used a punchy, declarative answer everyone suddenly chooses the most specious possible interpretation ("oh so you'd just drop whatever you were doing and go to Tehran if Ahmadinejad told you to?") and then slams him for it.

Screw it, the whole debate about whether to negotiate is completely distinguished mentally-challenged.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: cool breeze on September 27, 2008, 12:48:46 AM
BIDEN SPITTIN MAD BALLS OF HOT FIYAH

[youtube=425,350]3QdT-xMe2-s[/youtube]
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QdT-xMe2-s

 :borys

 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: GilloD on September 27, 2008, 12:59:26 AM
I stayed out of the e-fray until now, but the consensus among the dozen or so 20-somethings I watched this with was that Obama obliterated J Mac. Don't get me wrong, they both held down the fort, but in terms of laying out a case, backing the facts and keeping your cool, Obama champed it. McCain was all over the fucking place, he absolutely failed to make sense in some situations. He came across as weak, distant and ,frankly, weird.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Bocsius on September 27, 2008, 01:04:49 AM
I thought McCain did a good job namedropping people and places. He has a clear grasp on world players. However, I fail to see how talking to Iran legitimizes their ideas.  I don't see how that leap happens, and I wish Obama had vocalized that during the debate. He almost did by lampooning Iran's positions and bringing up the opinions of former Secretaries of State and the change in policy within the Bush administration, but he should have said more about the "legitimizing" claim specifically.

Oh, and it was a real eye-roller whenever McCain would say "once again Obama doesn't understand...." ::) I was about ready for Obama to evoke Reagan one of those times, or perhaps one of the times McCain outright lied, and say "Oh there you go again."
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Debaser on September 27, 2008, 01:13:45 AM
Time for the MANDARK SCORECARD!

Quote
Obama will repeatedly bring up other people endorsing his plans (Secretaries of State supporting talks with Iran, Maliki in favor of a timeline, Bush administration sending a negotiator to the Iran talks and conducting operations inside Pakistan) to make him look wise and well-versed by association.  Some of it will be a stretch, some will be on point. YES

McCain will probably bullshit on Iraq in several of the following ways:

* Talking about "extremists" or "militias" without defining them. NO

* Referring to Al Qaeda in Iraq as if they're the same Al Qaeda that executed the 9/11 attacks. YES

* Talking smack about Iran's interference in Iraq without mentioning Iran's strongest ties are with Dawa and ISCI, who are America's biggest allies and run the government in Iraq.  Bonus points for acting like Moqtada Al-Sadr is Iran's puppet. YES

* Surge surge surge surge surge surge surge.  I've already ranted on this one. YES

* Framing the issue as victory/defeat without defining either. YES

McCain's gonna take credit for talking tough about Putin before it was in vogue.  NO

Both candidates will talk about solidarity with Georgia without committing the resources to actually check Russia.  Be fun to see if they're pressed about NATO membership and Article Five. YES

McCain will drop at least one "naive", probably talking about someone not wanting to bomb someone else.  Might use "isolation" too. YES

Obama will bring up his speech against the Iraq war in the first place and will say "ten billion a month" at least once.  At least. YES

Generally, Obama's going to try to fudge the rules by bringing up the domestic economy more than McCain. YES

McCain will growl at Chavez and maybe Castro some.  YES

Obama will say we need to change our Cuba policy but he'll hedge.  Obama might talk a bit about better diplomacy in South America generally, and bring up the fact that China's moving in and investing in infrastructure there. YES

Africa?  Lolz.  Both candidates will pay lip service to Darfur, framing the issue as one-sided abuse.  They both might call it genocide.  McCain will pat himself on the back for straight talk if he's the only one. NO

McCain will rear up on his hind legs, extend his claws, and make menacing gestures at Iran.  Expect him to bring up the bogus "wipe Israel off the map" quote. YES

Obama might say something nuance-y about free trade, cause all the wonks are now saying it's not the absolute positive they thought it would be.  McCain will be generically in favor. NO

McCain will bring up his idea for a new League of Democracies and it will be distinguished mentally-challenged. YES

Not bad, all in all! But I think you should get points off for not calling the POW stuff. I mean, come on!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 27, 2008, 02:05:31 AM
I still think McCain barely edged out Obama.  Not in terms of facts but overall delivery.

McCain did little more than rhetoric because it is easy to bring it up.  McCain got away with so much bullshit and Obama would bring up some of it but not all of it.  The moderation was kind of nonexistent because they just ignored the time limits in the first place.

It wasn't a slam dunk for McCain.  He may gain a point or two off of it but he will lose several with the VP debate.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 02:17:46 AM
I so should get credit for the Putin one!  "I looked into his eyes and saw three letters: K G B."  Come on!  *kicks dirt onto Debaser's shoes*

Thanks for taking the time to do the scorecard though.  I don't think I ever would have gotten around to it, and you used the fancy red text.

 :bow Debaser :bow2
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 27, 2008, 02:36:59 AM
McCain said "horseshit" during the debate! :o

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26909249#26909711

4:31, right after Obama says "aligned with us - I mean, Spain!"
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: cool breeze on September 27, 2008, 02:47:10 AM
two times!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 27, 2008, 02:49:27 AM
McCain said "horseshit" during the debate! :o

http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/21134540/vp/26909249#26909711

4:31, right after Obama says "aligned with us - I mean, Spain!"

Wow, I was expecting a noise that only vaguely sounded like "horseshit."  :lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on September 27, 2008, 02:51:29 AM
I'm not 100% sure it's "horseshit" but if you look at some other feeds that shows McCain at the time, his body language looks really upset and twitchy at that point. Some people think he's saying "course it is" real fast, but it sure sounds like "horseshit" to me :lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Crushed on September 27, 2008, 02:53:08 AM
Some people think he's saying "course it is" real fast, but it sure sounds like "horseshit" to me :lol

That's what I first thought, that that was what it sorta sounded like. But unless it's just the mike or his whisper, there's a very pronounced "sh" sound. So unless he was saying "Coursh it is..."
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fragamemnon on September 27, 2008, 03:47:22 AM
Olberman heard "of course not, of course not" , not "horseshit". He's used to hearing McCain's style of speech and heard what he said in the debate live and it definitely wasn't "horseshit".

Blah debate, substance-wise, on both sides. Obama clearly won on presentation and demeanor, McCain did look like an angry old man stuck using the rules and references of the cold war and applying them to the 21st century, which seems pretty silly.

The economy part was espsecially painful, though-mainly because both candidates are petrified at the thought of endorsing any bailout legislation until the congress and adminitration are sold on it. I am actually glad Obama fought back some on McCain's turf-he did a good job communicating his tax policy and hammering McCain, and did a good job detailing to the audience just how meaningless earmarks are, and how absurd it is from a budget perspective the GOP's crusade is to get rid of them (never mind that earmark swapping is the casing by which we package our legislative sausage).
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 04:05:50 AM
Hey guys, turns out that Obama was the one getting angry (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQ0MGE3NmVhMjYxYzQxOWU2YTQyYjkxYWJmOTU1ZjE=).
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Fragamemnon on September 27, 2008, 04:23:10 AM
Hey guys, turns out that Obama was the one getting angry (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQ0MGE3NmVhMjYxYzQxOWU2YTQyYjkxYWJmOTU1ZjE=).

i spam refeshed five blogs on election night 2006, NRO's Corner being one of them just to watch k-lo cry when Santorum lost.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mandark on September 27, 2008, 04:32:20 AM
Hey guys, turns out that Obama was the one getting angry (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQ0MGE3NmVhMjYxYzQxOWU2YTQyYjkxYWJmOTU1ZjE=).

i spam refeshed five blogs on election night 2006, NRO's Corner being one of them just to watch k-lo cry when Santorum lost.

hahahaha

That's schaudenfreude you can believe in, my friends!
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 27, 2008, 04:32:34 AM
I hate civilian mom
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 27, 2008, 04:33:54 AM
Olberman heard "of course not, of course not" , not "horseshit". He's used to hearing McCain's style of speech and heard what he said in the debate live and it definitely wasn't "horseshit".

Blah debate, substance-wise, on both sides. Obama clearly won on presentation and demeanor, McCain did look like an angry old man stuck using the rules and references of the cold war and applying them to the 21st century, which seems pretty silly.

The economy part was espsecially painful, though-mainly because both candidates are petrified at the thought of endorsing any bailout legislation until the congress and adminitration are sold on it. I am actually glad Obama fought back some on McCain's turf-he did a good job communicating his tax policy and hammering McCain, and did a good job detailing to the audience just how meaningless earmarks are, and how absurd it is from a budget perspective the GOP's crusade is to get rid of them (never mind that earmark swapping is the casing by which we package our legislative sausage).


Nevermind his VP pick. I understand how useless it would have been for obama to bring that up. EVERYONE is guilty of it
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: huckleberry on September 27, 2008, 09:39:19 AM
Hey guys, turns out that Obama was the one getting angry (http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=ODQ0MGE3NmVhMjYxYzQxOWU2YTQyYjkxYWJmOTU1ZjE=).


Look man, its not like its his fault.  Obama is just limited by his negro nature.  McCain being white can naturally keep his cool under pressure.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 27, 2008, 12:48:40 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/the-smirk-could-mccains-f_n_129831.html
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: duckman2000 on September 27, 2008, 12:51:01 PM
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/09/27/the-smirk-could-mccains-f_n_129831.html

So basically, another Bush? Republicans generally don't seem to have much going for them other than the old mocking smirk.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 27, 2008, 12:53:16 PM
I think his smirk is a 72 year old smile lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: huckleberry on September 27, 2008, 12:58:52 PM
MAF that is amazing.  I was working so I had to listen to the debate on the radio.  All three of us at work thought that McCain did a much better job during the debate than Obama...until I watched the debate this morning.  What an amazing difference seeing it on TV versus listening to it on the radio makes.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 27, 2008, 01:12:28 PM
While trying to be impartial, unbiased etc...I don't see how anyone could argue Obama did not win that debate. He beat McCain on every issue, every talking point. He looked presidential. Polls seem to agree but we'll see later this weekend. I think the public will say Obama won.

It reminded me of that debate where Hillary came out the box attacking Obama over and over again - except this time it was Obama attacking McCain over and over again. He played defense when he had to, but was on offense 90% of the time. McCain didn't even use his own talking points well. On Iran he didn't use the same language his ads do (tiny country, etc). He was pushing the wrong buttons at the same time, most evident at the end where he was sprouting buzz words - surge, naive, etc.

Perhaps most shockingly McCain totally bombed the beginning of the debate concerning the bail out. He didn't distance himself from Obama or Bush. He didn't really mention "suspending" his campaign. I couldn't believe that
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on September 27, 2008, 01:20:00 PM
:bow :bow the liberals' magical negro :bow2 :bow2
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 27, 2008, 01:24:54 PM
I watched it on PBS at this almost mansion-like old house. One of my dad's friends is heavily involved in the Ypsilanti Obama election campaign and he invited a bunch of people over. Lots of old liberal yuppies - it was like a real life version of poligaf without the memes and pictures.

*McCain grumbling*
old fart: bububub Haliburton!
*McCain garbling*
old lady: LOL LIKE KEATING FIVE AMIRITE
*McCain pedo smile*
old dude: he's more senile than me lol

smh

But the funniest thing was after the debates they got into a discussion on whether those Palin/bikini/gun photoshops were real pictures  :lol

old lady: it's so disrespectful to women. what type of VP takes her clothes off like that
old lady 2: my son said they were fake
old lady 3: her breasts? probably lol
old dude: they look real to me

welcome to the internet 
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 27, 2008, 01:35:53 PM
Obviously we won't know how the polls will start reflecting the debate until tomorrow, but it's obvious that McCain's "suspending the campaign to save the economy" stunt didn't work:

New Gallup is 49-44 Obama after being tied two days ago (rolling three day average, and it should make a large jump tomorrow because in one day Obama went from three up to tied- that was three days ago so once the one good day for McCain gets taken out I bet Obama is over 50, especially if he gets a good debate bump)

New Rasmussen is 50-44 Obama.  Rasmussen's polling this cycle has traditionally tended to favor Republicans and if I'm not mistaken this is the first time Obama has been at 50 or over in their polling.

Obviously polls are pretty much bullshit, but it's time to start paying a little bit more attention to them, at least in the sense that they can help shape perceptions.  Trends are tending to favor Obama.  IMO if he gets a modest little bounce from this debate and then Palin pulls a Hindenberg at the VP debate on Thursday, this thing is OVER.  The last debate is on the economy.  The only thing that could save McCain at that point is for a war to break out on American soil or Obama to show up in FUBU gear to the last debate.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 27, 2008, 01:42:12 PM
Or Bin Laden capture :shh

The public consensus seems to be that Obama won. Lots of people also saw it as a tie - which to me is a fuckin Obama win considering McCain's perceived foreign policy advantage. Lets see if McCain can tie things up in an economic debate lol

As I said yesterday, Obama is going to sail through this weekend on top. Monday will be dominated by positive polling and questioning of McCain's debate tactics. Then on tuesday I have a fucking accounting test the VP debate, which should be a riot. Initially I thought that unless Palin does something stupid she'd get positive reviews; the bar is set that low. But after watching the media lambast her for the last few days, and considering her undeniably horrible interview performances, I think the media already has the tar n' feathers out. Only concern could be Biden's week of gaffes/fuck ups - lets hope that doesn't carry into the debate
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: huckleberry on September 27, 2008, 01:45:14 PM
:bow :bow the liberals' magical negro :bow2 :bow2


[youtube=425,350]<object width="425" height="344"><param name="movie" value="http://www.youtube.com/v/qvXz2xaLNMQ&hl=en&fs=1"></param><param name="allowFullScreen" value="true"></param><embed src="http://www.youtube.com/v/qvXz2xaLNMQ&hl=en&fs=1" type="application/x-shockwave-flash" allowfullscreen="true" width="425" height="344"></embed></object>[/youtube]


Heard this on talk radio the other day...couldn't believe it.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 27, 2008, 02:04:03 PM
Or Bin Laden capture :shh

The public consensus seems to be that Obama won. Lots of people also saw it as a tie - which to me is a fuckin Obama win considering McCain's perceived foreign policy advantage. Lets see if McCain can tie things up in an economic debate lol

As I said yesterday, Obama is going to sail through this weekend on top. Monday will be dominated by positive polling and questioning of McCain's debate tactics. Then on tuesday I have a fucking accounting test the VP debate, which should be a riot. Initially I thought that unless Palin does something stupid she'd get positive reviews; the bar is set that low. But after watching the media lambast her for the last few days, and considering her undeniably horrible interview performances, I think the media already has the tar n' feathers out. Only concern could be Biden's week of gaffes/fuck ups - lets hope that doesn't carry into the debate

Honestly, I think a Bin Laden capture wouldn't necessarily be that big of a game changer.  "7 years later and we got him!  We're on top of it!"

Also, the Veep debate is on THURSDAY, Maurice.   :wag
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 27, 2008, 02:04:53 PM
oh for real? fuck yea :bow

Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Brehvolution on September 27, 2008, 02:14:53 PM
After the debate, I turned it to FUX news and told my wife,"Now watch these people all say that MCain won the debate."
Like clockwork.  :lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 27, 2008, 02:17:56 PM
Quote
Capitol Hill sources are telling me that senior McCain people are more than concerned about Palin.

The campaign has held a mock debate and a mock press conference; both are being described as “disastrous.” One senior McCain aide was quoted as saying, “What are we going to do?” The McCain people want to move this first debate to some later, undetermined date, possibly never. People on the inside are saying the Alaska Governor is “clueless.”
http://www.wegoted.com/
 :lol
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 27, 2008, 04:20:14 PM
I didn't think McCain did that bad, but this was his best chance at winning a debate, and he clearly didn't win this. Obama did a good job holding his own.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 27, 2008, 04:26:21 PM
A lot of people are focusing on the eye contact, after talking with a lot of dudes on both sides today.  It is clear that McCain was scared shitless up there.  He had jack shit and he knew it.  Why else would he bring up Ronald Reagan and being a POW as often as he did?  Again, it was more Hail Mary plays by invoking the GOP Lenin...or Jesus if you will.

McCain was very aggressive but I have to congratulate Obama.  Obama shot dead the earmark bullshit.  That is another Republican talking point that is dead in the water.  Obama however let McCain get away with too much shit regarding Iraq.  Obama held his own but he didn't counter McCain's usual like he did with economic matters.  I think the best part is that Obama did his best with the economic portion as he tried to call out McCain's several inaccuracies.

I still think it was a slight McCain edge.  No handwringing shit (I know this is going to be the new meme) intended.  However, foreign policy was supposed to be McCain's strength and if he barely come out ahead over Obama, even in public perception, he is done.  This was supposed to be his golden moment.  It won't be over the Economy and it won't be over any kind of domestic issue.

Polls are BS but people still look at them.  If its 50-44 Obama, then people are going to think that Obama is the better choice.  When it rains, it pours.

Speaking of pouring, I have a bet going on with a couple friends that Palin will either have a tantrum, a meltdown, early leave, or start crying in the debate.  She can't handle lightweights like Couric and Gibson, I almost feel sorry for her when she goes up against one of America's best.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 27, 2008, 06:58:55 PM
I don't think so.

A lot of people still like Palin (granted, that number is dwindling) but this debate will be nail in the coffin for Palin's legitimacy.  People will now see Palin up against someone else, debating.  This debate will be the jarring wake up call that Palin is not a misunderstood genius or that the evil librul media is after her.  It is just her, Biden, and the moderator.

We expect Palin to bomb but there are millions of soccer moms out there who think she is a "smart, tough cookie."  When they see her get steamrolled by Biden, their romance with her will end.  I don't expect them all to convert to Obama/Biden but it will be a significant loss for the GOP...and McCain knows it.

The expectations have been low for Palin since the very start and she still manages to fail even those.  By next week, the fact that she can dress herself will now be considered an achievement.  Plus with all those people in the audience sitting there, not knowing what questions are getting asked, I think she will get nervous and immediately begin stumbling.

Honestly, I think she will be overly concise.  She will give out a lot of short, useless answers, and will look "mechanical" because she is trying so hard not to nervously ramble.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 27, 2008, 07:50:32 PM
The trouble with Palin is when she honestly TRIES, she rambles all over the latest talking points memo. They question will be about national security but she'll somehow make HUGE reaches to include EVERY SINGLE TALKING POINT from the campaign as a single answer about foreign policy.

What's even stranger is she won't do this for some things, there is a point where she DOES say "I dont know" and laughs nervously. Eventually she cycles through all of the talking points and whats left is a veep pick that can't think on her toes AT ALL. The 90 minute debate format will see her fading fast past 30 minutes.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 27, 2008, 08:32:04 PM
Moderator: Thank you Senator Biden.  Governor Palin, you have two minutes to respond.
Palin: Uh, I don't know *giggles*
Moderator: ...
Biden: ...
Palin: ...
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Tristam on September 27, 2008, 08:48:44 PM
You guys are underestimating Palin -- not her ability to completely mangle a response due to sheer ignorance, but her ability to respond at all. Maybe you were exaggerating, but she ain't gonna flee the stage or be completely tongue-tied or break down crying (actually, maybe I can see the last one, and at a couple points in the 2004 VP debate, when asked if he had a response to Edwards, Cheney crankily replied "No."). Still, I expect her to wing it for nearly every prompt.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: AdmiralViscen on September 27, 2008, 10:02:18 PM
Word salad with buzzwords seemed to work well enough for McCain, if Biden shits on her too hard she'll become a sympathetic figure.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: brawndolicious on September 27, 2008, 10:41:46 PM
After 8 years, people don't want a "sympathetic" president who just makes stuff up and shouts the loudest.  McCain kept an assholish tone the whole debate and hardly knew what he was talking about on some of the topics.  This alone doesn't make him lose the election but he lost supporters, or at least Obama gained a lot of the people who were on the fence.
Word salad with buzzwords seemed to work well enough for McCain, if Biden shits on her too hard she'll become a sympathetic figure.
^that just won't happen.  biden knows not to be too aggressive on her due to her completely insane family/xtian/vagina values base that would claim that she was being intimidated by his big words and that it's not her fault that she's totally unqualified.  Biden will make all of his points in the most simple and "nice" way possible but still keep on the offense and call her on her bullshit every time she says something dumb.  If Palin consistently fucks up every topic (which I would expect) I can honestly see that as being the final nail on the coffin.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: tiesto on September 28, 2008, 12:31:06 AM
Word salad with buzzwords seemed to work well enough for McCain, if Biden shits on her too hard she'll become a sympathetic figure.

That's really what I'm worried about... I mean, I'd absolutely love to see Biden rip her a new asshole, but I would be worried that a lot of women and more feminine men would feel sorry for her and think Biden a total dipshit for being so cruel to the poor precious Palin.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on September 28, 2008, 01:58:20 AM
After 8 years, people don't want a "sympathetic" president who just makes stuff up and shouts the loudest.  McCain kept an assholish tone the whole debate and hardly knew what he was talking about on some of the topics.  This alone doesn't make him lose the election but he lost supporters, or at least Obama gained a lot of the people who were on the fence.
Word salad with buzzwords seemed to work well enough for McCain, if Biden shits on her too hard she'll become a sympathetic figure.
^that just won't happen.  biden knows not to be too aggressive on her due to her completely insane family/xtian/vagina values base that would claim that she was being intimidated by his big words and that it's not her fault that she's totally unqualified.  Biden will make all of his points in the most simple and "nice" way possible but still keep on the offense and call her on her bullshit every time she says something dumb.  If Palin consistently fucks up every topic (which I would expect) I can honestly see that as being the final nail on the coffin.

Agreed.  In fact, Biden doesn't need to attack her that much if even at all.  I expect him to make more attacks on McCain and the GOP than Palin.  Palin's worst enemy will be herself.  She will probably try to attack Biden but if she says it in the most garbled manner, then I expect Biden to spend hardly more than one sentence addressing her stupidity and the rest of his time against the GOP.  Biden will make sure Palin can't get anywhere but not in such a way that he comes off as the cruel aggressor.  Palin will fuck up enough on her own; Biden doesn't need to add fuel to the fire.  I think he knows this.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: laesperanzapaz on September 28, 2008, 05:05:21 AM
but what if he doesnt?

to me, it seems obama seems too clumsy or shy with his words, especially his stuttering, and only a prepared speech seems to make him sound CLEAR and DIRECT with the CUT THRU THE BULLSHIT voicetone he sometimes but oft rarely achieves.

for biden, the man is like a timebomb.  Waaaayyyyt too frank.  We like honesty, biden, but not that much.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: brawndolicious on September 28, 2008, 06:02:42 AM
Palin just gets totally lost when she starts to bullshit on issues the she doesn't know.  She can't learn politics overnight and the only preparation that a candidate can really do for a debate against a experienced politician is learning how to present their opinions in a way that most americans might accept.  If real-world political issues have any possibility of coming up in this debate, she'll be stuck in the middle of a minefield and she'll fail.

Biden has probably gotten a lot of coaching already on not rubbing her face in it every time she says something wrong.  He's probably studied her interviews and seen how she reacts when she's unprepared (which is like every interview that she's had).  This debate will be a textbook case for America on a candidate who is qualified and a candidate who isn't.  It's probably the only VP debate that people will really watch too.
Title: Re: DEBATE! Fearless predictions inside!
Post by: MrAngryFace on September 28, 2008, 06:53:21 AM
Biden is awesome, he once made a joke about indians running convenience stores and here he is runnin for vp!