THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 02:22:21 PM

Title: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 02:22:21 PM
Like, this morning I was throwing up straight up bile.  It's kinda gross.  I didn't eat anything the night before (although I did throw up some), nor did I like, eat anything at all during the day.  I've talked about my puking before.  There are no other negative effects that worry me, no pain or vertigo or headaches or anything like that.  I don't supplement with anything that increases serotonin, just l-tyrosine for dopamine and DMAE for acetylcholine, neither of which have control on vomiting. It's kinda of annoying.

Also, I should point out that I consumed a bottle and a half of rum between friday night and sunday morning, but even if I hadn't, I would have experienced a similar level of pukesying up.

So Smooth, what is it?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Tieno on October 20, 2008, 02:33:46 PM
How does it smell?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: ch1nchilla on October 20, 2008, 02:34:36 PM
Alcoholism / hangover. Eat some food, mayhaps?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 02:35:56 PM
Are you nauseus as well?

Only soon before I throw up.  I can usually hold it in for a bit, probably up to a half hour.

How does it smell?

Acrid, kinda "sting-y."  It's straight up bile (when I haven't been eating, of course), that's a fact.

Alcoholism / hangover. Eat some food, mayhaps?

Happens when I don't drink.  My adult drinking style is firmly in the weekend warrior column.

I just wish I could leverage this talent into an eating disorder :(
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Powerslave on October 20, 2008, 02:40:11 PM
How are you feeling lately?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 02:43:02 PM
Wonderful.  I kind of want to see The Day the Clown Cried.  I hope Jerry Lewis dies soon so a print of it will leak.  I think he has the only print or some such.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 02:45:06 PM
Long as there isn't blood and it isnt every hour on the hour I wouldn't sweat it much. Take ginger for digestion and keep some tums around.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Mupepe on October 20, 2008, 02:46:27 PM
you need me to take care of you?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Powerslave on October 20, 2008, 02:46:32 PM
if you have a puking problem then just stop puking!!! lol!
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 02:49:33 PM
Most doctors will probably attribute it to GERD
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 02:50:53 PM
Long as there isn't blood and it isnt every hour on the hour I wouldn't sweat it much. Take ginger for digestion and keep some tums around.

Yeah, no blood.  I've said before that it's usually mornings and nights.  It's very rare for it to happen in like, the middle of the day.  I thought maybe it was acid reflux, but that apparently doesn't make adults throw up (though it does in children, I guess).  Maybe it still is.  It's not so terrible that I want to go to the doctor to get pills, it's just every once in a while there will be a really bad day, and like, my dentist has asked me if I throw up a lot and that makes me self conscious because he probably thinks I have an eating disorder, and if I did have an eating disorder, I'd kind of be a failure at eating disorders, which would be embarrassing.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 02:58:16 PM
acid reflux isnt so much with the vomiting. The worse cases of acid reflux will, over time, wear at your throat and vocal cords iirc.

If you dont want to see a doctor just yet, you could do a few things in the meantime:

Investigate herbal remedies for such a thing, for things as basic as digestion, they do actually work for some people.  Ginger is a prime example. Chamomile supposedly helps too.

Keep a food/drink log; use this to rule out the possibility of a food or drink interaction.

Also keep in mind that it is entirely possible that the act of vomiting is a subconcious learned behavior. If its really predictable, down to a general time, there is a good chance it is psychological.

Keep an eye on heart-rate and blood pressure during these episodes, noticable rises could indicate anxiety, but then again acid reflux can create raised heart rate and bp, its a MOBIUS STRIP.

Drink water, and lots of it. Stop drinking booze for a week, cut back on the sugar if possible too.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 03:00:53 PM
I'm pretty positive it's not psychological, though it is to the point where if I think I'm going to throw up, I just gag myself to get it over with.  Also if it was psychological, I'd rather it be an eating disorder.  Maybe it is an eating disorder and I'm just terrible at timing my vomiting schedule.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 03:02:02 PM
Keep in mind you should see a doctor if it increases in intensity or frequency, or it isnt at least better after a month of self treatment efforts. Your body isnt SUPPOSED to throw up every day; throwing up is an OH SHIT reaction of the body and having to do it often is taxing on the body and probaby messes up all kinds of shit.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 20, 2008, 03:02:47 PM
I'm pretty positive it's not psychological, though it is to the point where if I think I'm going to throw up, I just gag myself to get it over with.  Also if it was psychological, I'd rather it be an eating disorder.  Maybe it is an eating disorder and I'm just terrible at timing my vomiting schedule.

As hard as it sounds you may want to stop gagging yourself to get it over with. That in itself is a learned behavior.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 20, 2008, 03:05:29 PM
Sounds like you've got a dead fetus in your stomach. Laxatives should do the trick
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 03:06:09 PM
Well, I don't do it all the time.  I probably worded that poorly.  But say, I'm getting ready for bed and I'm about to brush my teeth and I can feel it coming on.  I think it's better to gag myself and get it over with rather than trying to brush my teeth or go to bed feeling nauseous.  

I'll mention it to a doctor if I ever see a general practitioner.  It's been going on about 2ish years.  The situation did improve after I pretty much stopped drinking soda.  Now I maybe have a soda at lunch, and that doesn't bug me, but when I was drinking habitually, it was definitely worse.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 20, 2008, 03:08:15 PM
could be a stress reaction. lord knows all my stress reactions -- particularly my seasonal ones -- are gastroenterological. :'(
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 03:18:09 PM
Invite me to your wedding so I can puke on the bride.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TakingBackSunday on October 20, 2008, 04:09:35 PM
 :lol
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 20, 2008, 04:15:08 PM
You might have appendicitis, which would suck. How is your appetite, like on a normal day? Also do you experience pain in/around your abdomen, say when you use the bathroom, sit down, or...other things?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 04:44:13 PM
Nope, none of that. This has been going on for 2 years.  If it were appendicitis, I think I'd be dead by now.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: ch1nchilla on October 20, 2008, 06:05:22 PM
This is fucking stupid, just go see a doctor. It'll take an hour tops.  :D
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: muckhole on October 20, 2008, 07:17:44 PM
Bile reflux perhaps? Sounds about right, check the full article:

http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bile-reflux/DS00651 (http://www.mayoclinic.com/health/bile-reflux/DS00651)

Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Greatness Gone on October 20, 2008, 07:22:15 PM
Acid reflux?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 20, 2008, 08:33:38 PM
I've had Acid Reflux pretty bad, but it's never made me throw up before, just a lot of pain and burning.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 20, 2008, 08:35:02 PM
Too bad TVC is gay. Sounds like this predicament could lead to some interesting stories about dinner-at-the-y sessions gone horribly wrong
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Greatness Gone on October 20, 2008, 08:37:17 PM
I've had Acid Reflux pretty bad, but it's never made me throw up before, just a lot of pain and burning.

I dunno, it usually makes me barf.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 20, 2008, 08:40:00 PM
Wikipedia sez that kids with acid reflux puke.  Maybe I've just got a little kid inside of me, which is unusual because I prefer to top.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: E-DuB on October 20, 2008, 11:08:56 PM
Are you still kicking back all of those pills for your mouth? With all of that rum you said you consumed plus the pills would make me a bit queezy
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 20, 2008, 11:59:04 PM
Do you usually take pain killers?  If you divide your abdominal region into 4 quadrants, (upper left and right, lower left and right), where do you feel the most pain? 
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 01:40:13 AM
Do you usually take pain killers?  If you divide your abdominal region into 4 quadrants, (upper left and right, lower left and right), where do you feel the most pain? 

No, I haven't had painkillers since August-ish, and like I said, this problem goes back about 2 years.

Dividing it into quadrants, well, cheating, but the feeling starts in my throat, and if I "hold back" pressure starts building up directly to my stomach area.  It sounds like, textbook acid reflux, but the puking isn't supposed to be a symptom for adults.  Also, I never have more than one carbonated beverage per day and I don't drink coffee or drink anything (regularly) that isn't juice, water, or gatorade.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 01:48:33 AM
I drink nothing but water and tea these days and I still get acid reflux from anxiety. What you drink doesnt matter all that much thankfully.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 01:50:35 AM
I drink nothing but water and tea these days and I still get acid reflux from anxiety. What you drink doesnt matter all that much thankfully.

Even carbonated shit, though?  I swear it's been a lot better since I stopped consuming soda often.  Also, I tend to side more towards apple juice than orange juice just because orange juice feels more acidic, though I think in reality they are similarly acidic.  Orange juice makes my throat feel rawer in mornings though.  Gatorade is a mainstay because puking rape rapes electrolytes.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 01:53:27 AM
I'd be concerned with sugar intake, but thats beside the point. If something is going on between soda and your stomach, its probably something specific to you. In most cases the most discomfort soda will provide is gas that needs a burp. Some sodas are even used for upset stomachs (ie. 7-up and Ginger Ale)
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 01:55:55 AM
How much sugar is in gatorade?  A lot?  A little?  That's the only thing that I regularly consume that could be a sugar bomba.  I sugar crash hard, so I tend to avoid mainlining it.  I also caffeine crash hard.  If I consume coffee, unless Ikeep consuming it until I go to bed, I'm gonna need to take a nap at some point.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 21, 2008, 02:00:23 AM
well its the fruit juice too, that has sugars. In an ideal world 2/3rds of your fluid intake would be water ;)

Plus you may wanna dial back at least on the orange juice, if you drink a lot. Over time excess vitamin c can crystalize in your kidneys and omg pain.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 02:03:12 AM
well its the fruit juice too, that has sugars. In an ideal world 2/3rds of your fluid intake would be water ;)

Plus you may wanna dial back at least on the orange juice, if you drink a lot. Over time excess vitamin c can crystalize in your kidneys and omg pain.

I only ever have 2 of the small cans in the morning.  I don't chug it all day.  How big are those cans?  Like 4oz?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 21, 2008, 02:12:08 AM
I think you need to stop acting like a gaffot and go see a gastroenterologist.  An endoscopy would most likely reveal the source of your problems.  There are many different ways that you could have damaged your GI tract in the past and witout an endoscopy it would be hard to tell. 


Here's some info that I picked up but keep in mind, it's just one of several likely problems you could be having:

Bile reflux chemical gastropathy — Bile reflux gastropathy typically results from the regurgitation of bile into the stomach because of an operative stoma, an incompetent pyloric sphincter, or abnormal duodenal motility [28]. The degree of injury reflects the amount of exposure to bile salts. Patients who have a gastroenterostomy, for example, demonstrate the greatest degree of foveolar hyperplasia near the stoma, with decreasing inflammation proximally [13,16,29]. Bile salt concentration in gastric juice correlates with the severity of hyperplasia in these patients.

The effect of bile salts on gastric mucosa is comparable to that seen after chronic NSAID use [28]. Bile salts also appear to be a risk factor for the development of antral metaplastic gastritis [30].. Animal studies have demonstrated that bile salts and lysolecithin (derived from the metabolism of lecithin) cause acute gastric mucosal injury [31,32]. Their degree of toxicity is influenced by a number of variables including the type of bile salt, the presence or absence of deconjugation by bacteria in the intestine or stomach, the gastric pH, and the presence of pancreatic enzymes. Pancreatic enzymes in particular enhance injury from bile salts, in part because they catalyze the formation of lysolecithin from lecithin.

Lysolecithin and bile salts break down the gastric mucosal barrier [33], leading to back-diffusion of hydrogen ions and mucosal injury [31,32]. Concomitant infection by H. pylori can cause increased inflammation [34,35]. Cytoprotection from bile-induced injury by prostaglandins has been demonstrated in animal studies [36].

Diagnosis — Symptoms in patients with bile acid reflux are variable, ranging from histologic changes only without symptoms to abdominal pain, bilious vomiting and weight loss [37]. The diagnosis of bile reflux gastropathy is easiest in patients who have surgically altered anatomy predisposing to bile reflux. The demonstration of chronic gastropathy in the absence of other causes is usually sufficient. In contrast, gastropathy in patients with nonoperated stomachs should not be attributed to exposure to bile without evidence of duodenogastric reflux. Duodenogastric reflux can be demonstrated by visualization during endoscopy, bile salt analysis in gastric juice, or radionuclide scanning [28,35,38,39].

Treatment — Definitive treatment of symptomatic bile acid reflux is surgery (usually a Roux-en-Y revision), which has been associated with improvement in symptoms in 50 to 90 percent of patients in several reports [37,40-42]. Improvement is less likely in patients with delayed gastric emptying [40].

A number of medical treatments have been evaluated in small clinical trials with variable success:

Ursodeoxycholic acid significantly decreased pain and almost abolished nausea and vomiting, but did not improve histology in a placebo controlled crossover trial involving 12 patients [43]. The rationale for its use was based upon the hypothesis that changing the composition of bile acids could have a favorable effect on gastric mucosa and symptoms.
Sucralfate improved histologic features but not symptoms in a controlled trial involving 23 patients [44].
Prostaglandin E2 was ineffective in improving endoscopic features or symptoms in a double-blind crossover trial [45].
Cholestyramine combined with alginates (to improve contact time in the gastric remnant) was ineffective on symptoms or histology in a placebo controlled trial that included 32 patients
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 02:14:34 AM
Quote
The effect of bile salts on gastric mucosa is comparable to that seen after chronic NSAID use

I use NSAIDs every single day.  Could that be a cause of this?

Urgh, reading up, NSAIDs could also be causing the light sensitivity I have talked about elsewhere.

And they cause diarrhea, which I feel I have more frequently than I should.
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 02:20:32 AM
Jesus fuck, how is it I could smoke PCP like every day for a year and regularly do all sorts of other drugs when I was younger, and it's my regular fucking ibuprofen and naproxen consumption that ends up fucking me up?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 21, 2008, 02:32:12 AM
Long term use of NSAIDS can do a lot of damage to your GI system.  You'd probably have to get an endoscopy and biopsy to see what's going on.  Might as well take advantage of your company's health benefits.  It's not a bad procedure.  I tried it once.  They do everything while you're completely out.  Your throat mgiht be hoarse for a few days but otherwise you'll feel fine. 
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 02:34:46 AM
Well, this potentially solves one problem, but it opens up another:  what's a safe treatment for very frequent stress headaches?
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 21, 2008, 01:29:22 PM
Well, this potentially solves one problem, but it opens up another:  what's a safe treatment for very frequent stress headaches?

Do you get the headaches on both sides?  Is it a throbbing pain?

Overuse of Nsaids could give you headaches in addition to the GI problems so maybe stop them for awhile and see what happens. 
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: TVC15 on October 21, 2008, 04:16:16 PM
Well, this potentially solves one problem, but it opens up another:  what's a safe treatment for very frequent stress headaches?

Do you get the headaches on both sides?  Is it a throbbing pain?

Overuse of Nsaids could give you headaches in addition to the GI problems so maybe stop them for awhile and see what happens. 

Actually, right now I think I'm just flat out sick.  Shit's been going around at work and I feel really light-headed today.  As for my tension headaches, they usually hit at both temples.  When I had that tooth that needed a root canal, it amplified that pain to nearly incapacitating levels.

I don't think they are migraines because they general are not, like, apocalyptic omg my head is about to explode things.  I could still, say, drive with those headaches. 
Title: Re: Dear medi-bore: diagnose my puking problem
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 21, 2008, 04:34:17 PM
You could treat tension headaches pharmacologically but I don't know if you'd want to do that.  Just making yourself relax could also soothe tension headaches.  Maybe you should JO more often.