America gets a undeserving bad rep for the nuke attacks that Japan received.
America gets a undeserving bad rep for the nuke attacks that Japan received.
...
dude, the atomic bomb killed more than 200 thousand people. What the fuck
omg didnt know that many Americanos lived in Nanking, the more you learn!
I'm not a big history buff, so forgive my ignorance. Does anyone know why the US chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki specifically? Were there big military bases in those cities?
I'm not a big history buff, so forgive my ignorance. Does anyone know why the US chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki specifically? Were there big military bases in those cities?
One had a military base of some sort and the other was a manufacturing city or something. There were reasons they were picked but I forget the details.
I'm not a big history buff, so forgive my ignorance. Does anyone know why the US chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki specifically? Were there big military bases in those cities?
One had a military base of some sort and the other was a manufacturing city or something. There were reasons they were picked but I forget the details.
I also know that Kyoto was a target but was specifically vetoed on the belief that the Japanese people could never recover culturally from losing Kyoto's history
I would say the A-bombs helped save more lives than killed them. As for comparing Nanking/Russians/Holocaust to the fucking A-Bomb, well...you're just an idiot.
I'm not a big history buff, so forgive my ignorance. Does anyone know why the US chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki specifically? Were there big military bases in those cities?
One had a military base of some sort and the other was a manufacturing city or something. There were reasons they were picked but I forget the details.
I also know that Kyoto was a target but was specifically vetoed on the belief that the Japanese people could never recover culturally from losing Kyoto's history
Really? I had never heard that. Would Kyoto have had any military bases or strategic targets? Was Kyoto the capital then?
Why? So much of the argument of the anti-A-bomb people is that so many civilians were killed and it was an atrocity.
Why? So much of the argument of the anti-A-bomb people is that so many civilians were killed and it was an atrocity.
How many died from the A-bomb compared to the raping of Nanking/Holocaust?
The International Military Tribunal for the Far East stated that 80,000 women were raped, including infants and the elderly.[23] A large number of them were systematized in a process where soldiers would search door-to-door for young girls, with many women taken captive and gang raped.[24] The women were often then killed immediately after the rape, often through mutilation, including breasts being cut off;[25] or stabbing by bamboo (usually very long sticks)[26], bayonet, butcher's knife[citation needed] and other objects into the vagina. There are also claims of Japanese troops forcing families to commit acts of incest.[27] It has been claimed that sons were forced to rape their mothers, fathers were forced to rape daughters. One pregnant woman who it is claimed was gang-raped by Japanese soldiers gave birth only a few hours later; the baby was perfectly healthy (Robert B. Edgerton, Warriors of the Rising Sun). Monks who had declared a life of celibacy were according to some claims forced to rape women.
Why? So much of the argument of the anti-A-bomb people is that so many civilians were killed and it was an atrocity.
How many died from the A-bomb compared to the raping of Nanking/Holocaust?
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
War is the definition of suffering though. Comparing the acts of a-bomb to the holocaust just seems extreme to me. But yes, nobody came out of WWII clean. But with the A-bomb, I can at least see a reason why they would do such a thing, not that I think it's right.
The thing is that without the atomic bombs the firebombing would have been ramped up, not to mention a full scale invasion. 300,000 is generous compared to the potential devastation of that.
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
War is the definition of suffering though. Comparing the acts of a-bomb to the holocaust just seems extreme to me. But yes, nobody came out of WWII clean. But with the A-bomb, I can at least see a reason why they would do such a thing, not that I think it's right.
As I said above, Himu, the comparison is only made because one of the prime arguments of the anti-A-bomb people is how many civilians it killed. I agree that it's something of a fallacious comparison.
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
War is the definition of suffering though. Comparing the acts of a-bomb to the holocaust just seems extreme to me. But yes, nobody came out of WWII clean. But with the A-bomb, I can at least see a reason why they would do such a thing, not that I think it's right.
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
War is the definition of suffering though. Comparing the acts of a-bomb to the holocaust just seems extreme to me. But yes, nobody came out of WWII clean. But with the A-bomb, I can at least see a reason why they would do such a thing, not that I think it's right.
probably one of the most harrowing things I've ever seen was at the A-bomb museum in Hiroshima, they had a special exhibit of drawings and writings done by A-bomb survivors. there is just something eternally unnerving about a poorly drawn crayon picture of melting faces
One of Japan's surrendering terms was a demand for no occupation, which the US obviously would have refused. Japan refused to respond to the Potsdam Declaration, hence the second bomb. When you look at Japanese/Imperial history it becomes clear that surrender wasn't likely
One of Japan's surrendering terms was a demand for no occupation, which the US obviously would have refused. Japan refused to respond to the Potsdam Declaration, hence the second bomb. When you look at Japanese/Imperial history it becomes clear that surrender wasn't likely
There was no outright refusal, just silence. Was it unrelenting silence? or was Japan scrambling to figure out what the hell happened in Hiroshima so they could make an informed decision? Nobody knows.
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
War is the definition of suffering though. Comparing the acts of a-bomb to the holocaust just seems extreme to me. But yes, nobody came out of WWII clean. But with the A-bomb, I can at least see a reason why they would do such a thing, not that I think it's right.
probably one of the most harrowing things I've ever seen was at the A-bomb museum in Hiroshima, they had a special exhibit of drawings and writings done by A-bomb survivors. there is just something eternally unnerving about a poorly drawn crayon picture of melting faces
Ugh.
You hear that story about that little girl who made like 1000 pieces of origami and she believed if she made enough she'd get better and ended up dying? The day we read that story it pretty much ruined my day.
Suffering is fucking suffering Himuro. Jesus Christ.
War is the definition of suffering though. Comparing the acts of a-bomb to the holocaust just seems extreme to me. But yes, nobody came out of WWII clean. But with the A-bomb, I can at least see a reason why they would do such a thing, not that I think it's right.
probably one of the most harrowing things I've ever seen was at the A-bomb museum in Hiroshima, they had a special exhibit of drawings and writings done by A-bomb survivors. there is just something eternally unnerving about a poorly drawn crayon picture of melting faces
Ugh.
You hear that story about that little girl who made like 1000 pieces of origami and she believed if she made enough she'd get better and ended up dying? The day we read that story it pretty much ruined my day.
dude, I was in Hiroshima on August 6th. I went to the dome and I ran my fingers over the cranes. don't talk to me about having your day ruined.
One of Japan's surrendering terms was a demand for no occupation, which the US obviously would have refused. Japan refused to respond to the Potsdam Declaration, hence the second bomb. When you look at Japanese/Imperial history it becomes clear that surrender wasn't likely
There was no outright refusal, just silence. Was it unrelenting silence? or was Japan scrambling to figure out what the hell happened in Hiroshima so they could make an informed decision? Nobody knows.
I'd call it a rejection considering they refused to accept part of the terms (removal of the emperor)
dude, I was in Hiroshima on August 6th. I went to the dome and I ran my fingers over the cranes. don't talk to me about having your day ruined.
if you had to stand before St. Peter and you had to be responsible for
A) Pearl Harbor the attack
B) Pearl Harbor the movie
which would you pick?
Honestly, I might go with the attack. While the results were worse, the justification was also a lot better.
would killing ben affleck balance out the karma hit
eh, ben affleck directed Gone Baby Gone which was pretty good.
Yes, I agree totally. GBG was one of my favorite movies the year it came out. Casey is a great actor. I even liked him in those Ocean movies. I hope he breaks out soon, he deserves it.eh, ben affleck directed Gone Baby Gone which was pretty good.
You mean pretty awesome. Also, Casey Affleck is fuck awesome. He had better start getting lots of work between Gone Baby Gone and the Assassination of Jesse James.
is ben affleck the guy who puts his nuts on people's shoulders? or am I thinking of the wrong actor?Yeah that's Affleck.
I'd nuke Affleck's balls if he put them on my shoulder.You wouldn't be turned on by seeing this face dangling his balls on you?
Honestly, is there ANY credible American historians who would say the bombings of Japan weren't necessary? I'd be shocked if there is even a single one.
I didn't create the thread but if anyone gets a genius idea to post pictures of Agent Orange babies, put that shit in spoilers, please.
What if the US got nuked, all the baby boomers/great generation died and we lost all our historical documents except for a VHS copy of Pearl Harborthat analogy doesn't work logically cigarillo
what if we could go back in time and drop all copies of jersey girl on japanThat'd explain this:
I was just saying I think anything that kills that many people shouldn't really be seen as "victorious" or "successful" in the most basic terms.then almost all wars aren't victories.
I was just saying I think anything that kills that many people shouldn't really be seen as "victorious" or "successful" in the most basic terms.then almost all wars aren't victories.
Is there a certain threshold of dead bodies to separate a victory from a tragedy?
Is there a certain threshold of dead bodies to separate a victory from a tragedy?
"One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic."- Joseph Stalinspoiler (click to show/hide)I just wanted to post that, despite it possibly not having any relevance at all to the discussion.[close]
meh, whatever. I'm just a dirty hippie lolberal
It's still stupid to think that the A-Bomb was a terrible thing to do, considering the genocide that would've happened otherwise.
I will say this to the fuck morans on this board- The A-Bomb was the best move in a bad situation for Americans. Invading Japan would have been a bloodbath. I will add, however, that a population does not 'deserve' the devastation and suffering delivered by the A-Bomb. Not appreciating the true severity of its use just leads to the improper use of nuclear weapons in the future.pretty much my view.
thats actually my mottoIs there a certain threshold of dead bodies to separate a victory from a tragedy?
"One death is a tragedy. One million deaths is a statistic."- Joseph Stalinspoiler (click to show/hide)I just wanted to post that, despite it possibly not having any relevance at all to the discussion.[close]
If you paid attention to the shit you spewed on this forum you'd remember that this isnt what this was about. Its you talking like some stupid nationalist 'blah blah deserved it'
Its a shame our generation is so removed from the use of the A-Bomb that we have no appreciation for the horrors that it inflicted
The atomic bombs were not a crime. Comparing them to the Holocaust or Russian slaughters is idiotic
Where's Boogie
I'm not a big history buff, so forgive my ignorance. Does anyone know why the US chose to bomb Hiroshima and Nagasaki specifically? Were there big military bases in those cities?
First bomb - efficient way to end the war, in retrospect it was horrible and questionable, but it probably would have served its purpose on its own. BUT...
Second bomb - the result of one of the bigger miscommunications in history. Happened because the press all over the world took the Emperor's silence on the matter as a claim that Japan wouldn't surrender and there may or may not have been intelligence to corroborate that. Nobody knew because they were still trying to figure out what the hell happened in Hiroshima. It probably wasn't necessary.
fun fact: The fire bombing of Tokyo claimed more lives than either Hiroshima or Nagasaki (though not combined...I don't think.) While the a-bombs are debatable, people cite the Tokyo fire bombing as a true war crime the U.S. never had to respond to.
One of Japan's surrendering terms was a demand for no occupation, which the US obviously would have refused. Japan refused to respond to the Potsdam Declaration, hence the second bomb. When you look at Japanese/Imperial history it becomes clear that surrender wasn't likely
There was no outright refusal, just silence. Was it unrelenting silence? or was Japan scrambling to figure out what the hell happened in Hiroshima so they could make an informed decision? Nobody knows.
Well besides you calling me an idiot, I have to agree. I also see the reasons behind it. But the Germans also saw reasons for the Holocaust, how crazy it may be. In fact one of the first mass murders of Jews by Einstatsgruppen in the east was marked by the commanding officer who burst out in tears while giving a speech that's it's a dirty job...but someone's got to do it.
I will say this to the fuck morans on this board- The A-Bomb was the best move in a bad situation for Americans. Invading Japan would have been a bloodbath. I will add, however, that a population does not 'deserve' the devastation and suffering delivered by the A-Bomb. Not appreciating the true severity of its use just leads to the improper use of nuclear weapons in the future.
Honestly, is there ANY credible American historians who would say the bombings of Japan weren't necessary? I'd be shocked if there is even a single one.
The Supreme War Council . . . was making every possible preparation to meet [an American] landing. They proceeded with that plan until the Atomic bomb was dropped, after which they believed the United States would no longer attempt to land when it had such a superior weapon--that the United States need not land when it had such a weapon; so at that point they decided that it would be best to sue for peace.
Yet they continues to put troops in that one Kenzuo place to build up a strong hold for their "Armaggeddon" as they called it?
Sue for peace? In other words refuse the terms of surrender until some appeasement was met (ie no occupation, Emperor remains in power, etc)?
We cannot pretend . . . that victory is certain, but it is far too early to say the war is lost. That we will inflict severe losses on the enemy when he invades Japan is certain, and it is by no means impossible that we may be able to reverse the situation in our favor, pulling victory out of defeat. Our men will not lay down their arms.
I kinda wish Operation Olympic went through now just to wipe out those smug fuckers
Approximately 500,000 Purple Heart medals (awarded to those wounded or killed while serving with the US military) were manufactured in anticipation of the invasion. However, nobody knows for sure how many Allied or Japanese casualties an invasion would have resulted in. There have been many estimates over the years (some of the estimates below do not include losses at sea).
I kinda wish Operation Olympic went through now just to wipe out those smug fuckers
Oh I didn't know it was that severe. I thought it was just a operation to kill the main people, and Operation Dynasty was the 10 million one.
Whatever the name of the Armageddon one was. It was called like Operation Dynasty or Divinty or something. Sorry I don't wank off to things that don't exist.
Yet they continues to put troops in that one Kenzuo place to build up a strong hold for their "Armaggeddon" as they called it?
"They" referring to Japan? Yes, Japan's strategy of Ketsu-go was to anticipate an American invasion of Kyoto, bloody them up by inflicting such gross casualties that America would lose its spirit for the war and sue for a negotiated peace.Sue for peace? In other words refuse the terms of surrender until some appeasement was met (ie no occupation, Emperor remains in power, etc)?
Indeed. Even after the dropping of BOTH atomic bombs, some members of the War Council (specifically Army Minister Anami) were attempting to argue for a negotiated settlement that would be absolutely unacceptable to the Allies. The hawks laid down three conditions, that there be no occupation of Japan, or if unavoidable, that it be on a small scale and not include Tokyo, that Japanese disarmament be carried out and overseen by....Japan itself, and that war criminals be dealt with by.....Japan.
C'mon, tell me that makes ANY gawdamned sense. Those terms were (rightly) unacceptable.
Here's a quote by Army Minister Anami AFTER BOTH the bombings of Hiroshima and Nagasaki:QuoteWe cannot pretend . . . that victory is certain, but it is far too early to say the war is lost. That we will inflict severe losses on the enemy when he invades Japan is certain, and it is by no means impossible that we may be able to reverse the situation in our favor, pulling victory out of defeat. Our men will not lay down their arms.
Fortunately, at this point, precisely because of the atomic bombs, the Emperor was able to summon the cojones to directly intervene over the hawks and submit to unconditional surrender.
Operation Olympic=Operation Downfall iirc right?
No, it was "Operation Decisive".
EDIT: Also, obviously I was only being smug back at the emperors of Japan who thought the nukes weren't enough for unconditional surrender.
There's people on GAF who subscribe to that method of thought.
Operation Olympic=Operation Downfall iirc right?
edit: I know it's a book title as well, I thought it was also another code name for the invasion
Operation Downfall is a book about the nukes and the conspiracys around them between the nationalists and the traditionalists.
You take this shit way too seriously. :lol
Yeah, well, on GAF, people respond to my arguments by posting articles by NeoNazis...
You take this shit way too seriously. :lol
Oh, I'm terribly sorry for being a history graduate with a passion for the history of international relations and a specific interest and background in the end of the war in the Pacific, for taking said subject seriously.spoiler (click to show/hide)Again, fuck you and your ignorance[close]
QuoteYeah, well, on GAF, people respond to my arguments by posting articles by NeoNazis...
In xabre's defense, I think he has an extra chromosome, which is why he typically acts like a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.
Mud, stop spinning, you got owned and we are all laughing. ;)
You take this shit way too seriously. :lol
Oh, I'm terribly sorry for being a history graduate with a passion for the history of international relations and a specific interest and background in the end of the war in the Pacific, for taking said subject seriously.spoiler (click to show/hide)Again, fuck you and your ignorance[close]
You're making something out of a small jab that I didn't fact check before I posted. I'm so sorry. Next time I do a jab i'll make sure everything is 100% correct and has full historical backing.spoiler (click to show/hide):bawl[close]
Methodis, you must do what I do in these situations. Leave the thread and pretend it never happened!
QuoteYeah, well, on GAF, people respond to my arguments by posting articles by NeoNazis...
In xabre's defense, I think he has an extra chromosome, which is why he typically acts like a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow.
haha, nice catch. Wasn't sure anyone would get that reference. That exchange is still one of my favourite GAF moments. Just too funny.
This is Fallout 3 Thread Part 2 lol - Not sure why people argue with Boogie abouthistoryWW2 or Shadow Wars lol
:bow boogie, a Canadian
therefore, :bow Canada
although I cant ever imagine getting a relevant job after a history degree, but still
I crapped in patels thread when I showed forum outrage over someone saying the japanese "deserved" the bomb and then it turned into a large argument and patel made this thread.not to start a whole new fight, but many people would disagree with your outrage, just FYI. Of course, they are mostly old people, or people caught up in nationalist fervor, but I would certainly understand them.
I crapped in patels thread when I showed forum outrage over someone saying the japanese "deserved" the bomb and then it turned into a large argument and patel made this thread.
And does anyone know why the Philippines are nowhere near as angry nowadays as their neighbors are over the WW2 incidents?
This is Fallout 3 Thread Part 2 lol - Not sure why people argue with Boogie abouthistoryWW2 or Shadow Wars lol
Fixed. I bet someone could talk rot about institutional reforms during the Tanzimat period of the Ottoman Empire and it might sneak by him.
But seriously, what's going on in this thread? I assume someone started crapping up another topic so Patel redirected it here?
spoiler (click to show/hide)PS Oliver Kamm. Meh.[close]
:bow boogie, a Canadian
therefore, :bow Canada
although I cant ever imagine getting a relevant job after a history degree, but still
Mountie with a History Degree, i bet he can like teach shit while he busts people over the hood of their car.
What's the difference between a history degree and an extra large pizza?spoiler (click to show/hide)The pizza can feed a family of four.[close]
I crapped in patels thread when I showed forum outrage over someone saying the japanese "deserved" the bomb and then it turned into a large argument and patel made this thread.not to start a whole new fight, but many people would disagree with your outrage, just FYI. Of course, they are mostly old people, or people caught up in nationalist fervor, but I would certainly understand them.
oh yeah I forgot, does anyone remember the 2005 protests against Japan that was happening in China/Korea/Taiwan and the communities in Western north america? Good times!
And does anyone know why the Philippines are nowhere near as angry nowadays as their neighbors are over the WW2 incidents?
I crapped in patels thread when I showed forum outrage over someone saying the japanese "deserved" the bomb and then it turned into a large argument and patel made this thread.not to start a whole new fight, but many people would disagree with your outrage, just FYI. Of course, they are mostly old people, or people caught up in nationalist fervor, but I would certainly understand them.
oh yeah I forgot, does anyone remember the 2005 protests against Japan that was happening in China/Korea/Taiwan and the communities in Western north america? Good times!
And does anyone know why the Philippines are nowhere near as angry nowadays as their neighbors are over the WW2 incidents?
I will say this to the fuck morans on this board- The A-Bomb was the best move in a bad situation for Americans.
Honestly, the best move would have been to let Japan just surrender on its own terms, then pack up and go home. There was no need for firebombing, atomic-bombing or a full-scale invasion. They were already thoroughly beaten at that point and wouldn't have posed a thread to any country ever again. What we did to Japan was the equivalent of breaking the fingers of someone whose ass you've already kicked just to get him to say "uncle."
Btw, what's the difference between a history major and a Jew?
What's the difference between a history degree and an extra large pizza?spoiler (click to show/hide)The pizza can feed a family of four.[close]
I just hate people making light of something so destructive. Nuclear weapons shouldnt be an answer for anything.
I'm black, so I'm pretty easy to pick out over there.
I'm black, so I'm pretty easy to pick out over there.
no you're not