THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Tieno on December 04, 2008, 04:03:10 AM

Title: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 04, 2008, 04:03:10 AM
http://www.gamersyde.com/news_7380_en.html
some video screengrabs
(http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/9823/1306_0002.jpg)
(http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/9828/1306_0017.jpg)
(http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/9833/1306_0011.jpg)
(http://images.gamersyde.com/gallery/public/9833/1306_0012.jpg)

Looks ok I guess  :-\


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looks incredible, that's what you get when you don't crank out average shit at a yearly basis Insomniac :piss2
[close]

(http://i36.tinypic.com/9htflt.gif)
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 04, 2008, 04:10:57 AM
 :'( sis owned

borys am suiciding
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tabasco on December 04, 2008, 04:43:52 AM
it takes $500 video cards to get gta and crysis to look as good as a $400 console  :bow guerrilla :bow2

:piss excel users :piss2
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 04, 2008, 05:33:25 AM
The graphics look great but the actual game looks very scripted and linear.  The campaign just looks boring.  It's useless to have those gritty, realistic graphics when the enemy can't shoot for shit or use any tactics.  At least the multiplayer apparently holds up from what people have said.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 05:45:09 AM
I only saw one 10 minute video from Gamersyde yesterday because it was loading incredibly slow.  The game looks really good and the first person cover system is pretty neat.  The AI does seem a bit dumb and situations a bit scripted, but it didn't seem too bad where it fell into the Resistance 2 or even worse CoD4 range.  The only off thing about the graphics is that sometimes the superfluous death animations (to a lesser extend than the scripted one seen in that gif) seem like they will just play out without giving a real idea of if the enemy is reacting to your shot or actually dying.

and the gun models are crazy.  Unless Black 2 is announced, I'd say that this game has the best gun models in any game PC and all. 
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Draft on December 04, 2008, 08:30:02 AM
it takes $500 video cards to get gta and crysis to look as good as a $400 console  :bow guerrilla :bow2

:piss excel users :piss2
$200.

And the games are free.

Suck it dooooooooooooooooooown.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 04, 2008, 08:40:51 AM
This looks incredible, but the first video is nearly unwatchable because whoever is playing evidently has never played a FPS before. Mother fucker the game is telling you to grab the rocker launcher, why are you trying to snipe guys with the assault rifle? game journos, smh
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 08:44:24 AM
they're French
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 04, 2008, 09:04:45 AM
I still think that the tracer on the grenades looks out of place. Also, in the defending mission in the second vid seemed pretty weak since the player held an elevated position and it appeared that they could not be outflanked. I am still getting a PS3 for this game and the atmosphere looks incredible. :hyper
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 04, 2008, 09:32:03 AM
OMG, in the fourth vid the player is chasing after infantry with a rocket launcher, which was obviously placed there to take out the tank.

french gamers :teehee
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Hitler Stole My Potato on December 04, 2008, 09:35:19 AM
Now someone just needs to find a way where I can use my 360 controller on my PS3.

 :piss Dualshock 3 :piss2
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: dammitmattt on December 04, 2008, 09:39:29 AM
Now someone just needs to find a way where I can use my 360 controller on my PS3.

 :piss Dualshock 3 :piss2

I would try to agree more with you, but I couldn't.  What a terrible controller for FPS games.

Seriously, in this day and age, why the hell is the d-pad in the primary left thumb position?!?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 09:58:20 AM
as someone who couldn't stand the Dual Shock 2 last gen, I honestly haven't had any problems with the PS3 controller at all (other than the drop outs which were fixed by the DS3...also the triggers which were fixed by 3rd party clip on triggers).  They feel fine to me.  While the 360 controller is still better, I'm still a bit pissed as the downgrade from the S controller.

S Controller is still the best console dual analog controller
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: dammitmattt on December 04, 2008, 10:18:29 AM
as someone who couldn't stand the Dual Shock 2 last gen, I honestly haven't had any problems with the PS3 controller at all (other than the drop outs which were fixed by the DS3...also the triggers which were fixed by 3rd party clip on triggers).  They feel fine to me.  While the 360 controller is still better, I'm still a bit pissed as the downgrade from the S controller.

S Controller is still the best console dual analog controller

This post reminded me that I've had zero dropouts with my DS3, which is a very good thing because it happened way too frequently with my Sixaxis.  The DS3 is definitely a better controller than the Sixaxis, but I still have the same main three complaints with it: the left analog stick is in the wrong place, the triggers suck (this should be right out of the box without requiring some cheap 3rd party clips), and the dead space in the analog sticks just feels wrong (particularly for shooters).  I don't have big hands and I still have occasions where my thumbs bump into each other.  It's not as bad in games like Ratchet that don't require as much precision, but it can be frustrating in games that require any kind of precision.  With that said, it's still a good all-around controller with good buttons and the best d-pad this generation.  I just don't particularly like it for shooters.

I'm surprised to hear that you prefer the S to the 360 pad.  I thought the 360 controller just took the S, greatly improved the black/white button placement, made slightly better buttons and called it a day.  I think the 360 controller works great for 95% of games, though it's not ideal for anything 2D that requires the d-pad or fighting games.  However, the d-pad always kind of sucked in all Xbox controllers, so that's nothing new.

With all that said, Killzone 2 looks pretty fucking amazing and I look forward to trying it out.  Sony desperately needs to put out a demo.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tabasco on December 04, 2008, 10:20:50 AM
Really though some of the LoD causes some bad pop-in.  And the games seems to look kinda blurry, even the player is up close to an object.

as far as gameplay, it's obvious this is intended as a CoD4 clone, and that's not a good thing.  Heavily scripted gameplay is getting old, even for the masters at Valve and IW.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 11:28:57 AM
I still think that the tracer on the grenades looks out of place. Also, in the defending mission in the second vid seemed pretty weak since the player held an elevated position and it appeared that they could not be outflanked. I am still getting a PS3 for this game and the atmosphere looks incredible. :hyper

Without the grenade tracer, you'd be royally fucked. There's no grenade icon or throwback icon, so if you don't see the tracer or hear it land, you're likely dead.

And you fucking pussies whining about the DS3 need to man the fuck up and learn something new. If that's beyond your capabilities as gamers, then you're some kind of assholes.

and the gun models are crazy.  Unless Black 2 is announced, I'd say that this game has the best gun models in any game PC and all. 

They feel really, really good too. Great sound helps, as well.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Don Flamenco on December 04, 2008, 11:33:20 AM
Wow, looks really nice.  rofl at the gif. 
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: dammitmattt on December 04, 2008, 11:55:24 AM
And you fucking pussies whining about the DS3 need to man the fuck up and learn something new. If that's beyond your capabilities as gamers, then you're some kind of assholes.

I've been playing with some variation of that controller since I imported Gran Turismo and the PSOne Dual Analog controller in 1998.  I'm more than used to the controller.  It's not my fault that Sony hasn't learned from the obvious improvements that Microsoft made in 2001.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 04, 2008, 11:57:32 AM
The dropouts were fixed with the DS3-- apparently it uses a wider band of bluetooth hz or something.

This looks really great, I am so excited.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 11:58:30 AM
I've been playing with some variation of that controller since I imported Gran Turismo and the PSOne Dual Analog controller in 1998.  I'm more than used to the controller.  It's not my fault that Sony hasn't learned from the obvious improvements that Microsoft made in 2001.

So what you're saying is that you're a bit weak?

I played COD4 on PS3 and 360 and the 360 analog was just too 'heavy' for my taste.

I take it you're posting from work today?  :shh

On that, though, I really wish they would add rumble. Not that I blame them for not bothering, but it's a bummer.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: dammitmattt on December 04, 2008, 12:01:56 PM
So what you're saying is that you're a bit weak?

I handled the Duke just fine.  I can handle anything that Sony and their small-handed engineers can throw at me.

On that, though, I really wish they would add rumble. Not that I blame them for not bothering, but it's a bummer.

I can't play a console shooter without rumble.  The feedback is just too important to me and that's part of the reason that Resistance was so mediocre to me.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 12:11:51 PM
So what you're saying is that you're a bit weak?

I handled the Duke just fine.  I can handle anything that Sony and their small-handed engineers can throw at me.

Well, there's nothing wrong with preferences; hell, I wish I could play every shooter with kb+m, and it wouldn't exactly be tricky to post up a long list of reasons for that. But when you're whining about gamepads, it feels a bit like one dirty poor laughing at the other dirty poor for having only five sheets of cardboard as opposed to the clearly much superior six sheet set-up. The DS3 is by no means unusable.

I can't play a console shooter without rumble.  The feedback is just too important to me and that's part of the reason that Resistance was so mediocre to me.

I'm so happy I got a new controller before playing Killzone 2. And I don't think the "thudthudthud" of mines would have been nearly as hot without rumble. Would have been nice if they could have solved that issue before releasing the console.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 12:13:11 PM
The fuck, they removed Gimli from the squad? And replaced him with some generic helmeted dude?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: hyp on December 04, 2008, 12:16:54 PM
looks good, ME WANTY just for graphics alone.

i still have resistance 2 on my shelf unrwapped.  should i even bother with this hotness coming out? :hyper
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 12:18:27 PM
looks good, ME WANTY just for graphics alone.

i still have resistance 2 on my shelf unrwapped.  should i even bother with this hotness coming out? :hyper

I wouldn't. It's not bad, but it's aggressively unspectacular.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: hyp on December 04, 2008, 12:20:02 PM
yea i was thinking of just saving it for a rainy day.  i had a tough time just getting through R1.  couldn't resist though (look, a pun!), i got the collectors edition for 20 buckos.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 12:28:48 PM
yea i was thinking of just saving it for a rainy day.  i had a tough time just getting through R1.  couldn't resist though (look, a pun!), i got the collectors edition for 20 buckos.

If it's any help, R2 doesn't feel much like R1. I liked the first, but the second felt like a straight up clone of, well, every other console shooter ever, without ever being as good as any of its peers. I don't know, it's weird, and it's really soured me on Insomniac's production formula. Visually, it also feels like your typical UE3 stuff, force fitted into a system that doesn't do so well with that.

KZ2, in contrast, feels like a console shooter built from ground up for the PS3, which is a good thing. Very smartly balanced, visually and otherwise. We'll see if the campaign is any good, but these videos are promising. Decrease the reaction time of enemies, and it will be hot. The MP is already all but sold, so that's good.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 12:36:58 PM
Oh wow, that flamethrower clip is awesome. Could use some more range and ferocity, but the liquid is neat.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: hyp on December 04, 2008, 12:38:31 PM
that's good to know about KZ2.  aside from the graphics, i want my exclusive PS3 games to feel like they were made for the system.  i'm not much of a multiplayer kinda guy so i really hope the single player lives up.  i think what impressed me the most about R1 was that despite the varying texture quality, everything looked really clean and sharp.

i'm all about the eye candy though.  which is why wii can get the :piss
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 12:47:51 PM
Another thing that Insomniac for some reason refuses to acknowledge is the value of strong action music. Actually, that's sort of weird since I thought the Ratchet games weren't bad in this regard. Action music can turn good scenes into great ones quite effectively.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 01:00:21 PM
Yeah, there's absolutely some scripted stuff, but it doesn't seem to be anywhere near COD4 or R2 level of scripting. And I'm not seeing the bad A.I. here, but then I just played Far Cry 2 so my A.I. senses may be somewhat dulled. There are some dolt moments, but most of the time the enemies seem to react accordingly. Nothing award winning, but there must be some new imaginary standard in place for it to be called overall bad. Overall, it seems to play really well.

If anything, I wish they'd make Rico a mute. Way over the top, but I guess that's what people like.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Don Flamenco on December 04, 2008, 01:01:33 PM
hmm, scripting.  Crysis has spoiled me.  but if this is good enough, I'll give it a spin whenever I pick up a PS3.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 01:05:16 PM
This honestly looks more like Halo 3 than it does COD4, in regards to available paths, level scripting and how skirmishes play out. Maybe I'm not watching the right clip.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 01:12:58 PM

I completely disagree. Halo has a completely different sort of level design even, than COD 4 and KZ2. But COD4 and KZ2 share a lot in common.

Maybe if you were talking about Halo 1, but Halo 3 felt pretty linear to me; there were separate little chokepoints and a few could be approached by preference, but generally it was some pretty basic FPS gaming, with the possible exception being the Scarab fights. Not "scripted," but absolutely strictly predetermined by a solid map layout, with enemies here, there, and a hunter appearing there once you get past a certain point. COD4 funneled you along a remarkably linear path in claustrophobic environments, giving you very few options other than "go straight in and shoot stuff." Perhaps Killzone 2 exists somewhere between the two, but I'd say it looks to be closer to Halo 3. I haven't watched all the clips though, but the sniper video looks like it could be a Halo 3 choke point.

Maybe comparing it to Rainbow Six Vegas works better. COD4, I'm not seeing it.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 02:27:11 PM
I can see that. If the MP beta is any indication, guns blazing won't work so well. Well, unless you're a saboteur. Get right in the middle and fire like mad all around you, it's a successful recipe.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 04, 2008, 02:30:25 PM
Can't wait.

With this we now have:

Call of Duty Future warfare
Call of Duty Modern warfare
Call of Duty WWII
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 02:31:05 PM
Crysis still looks superior
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 04, 2008, 03:26:13 PM
Crysis still looks superior

This shit seriously needs to stop?
Ultimately Crysis is boring to look at.
Crysis is simply being out budgeted several times a year by bigger console titles.
Crysis ability to render a higher amount of great looking trees with the right pc compared to any console doesn't make it better looking.
PC elitists believing console owners don't know about the pleasures of pc gaming and hardware or lack a extensive history with it.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 04, 2008, 03:32:01 PM
Yeah I still think Crysis looks better, especially in facial animations, but this looks fantastic and a full head and shoulders above anything else shown on consoles thus far.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 04, 2008, 03:38:39 PM
No kidding Crysis looks better.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: hyp on December 04, 2008, 03:39:45 PM
considering KZ2 will top out at 720p most likely, crysis wins.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 04, 2008, 03:41:50 PM
It looks way more scripted than COD4 from what I can remember.  At least in COD4, the enemies would shoot at you when they could see you.  These enemies have to be 10 feet away to be a threat.  The parts with the flamethrower and sniper are some of the stupidest "working" AI I've ever seen.

I don't really see any similarities to Rainbow 6 Vegas.  Every enemy was smart and lethal in that.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 03:43:10 PM
I prefer the look of Killzone 2, technological inferiority be damned. But then I also think Far Cry 2 is significantly more attractive than Crysis, so hey. More aesthetically pleasing, or something.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 03:44:53 PM
It looks way more scripted than COD4 from what I can remember.  At least in COD4, the enemies would shoot at you when they could see you.  These enemies have to be 10 feet away to be a threat.  The parts with the flamethrower and sniper are some of the stupidest "working" AI I've ever seen.

I don't really see any similarities to Rainbow 6 Vegas.  Every enemy was smart and lethal in that.

You're out of your fucking mind.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 04, 2008, 03:45:00 PM
The first 3 min of Crysis own everything i've ever seen in a game.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 04, 2008, 03:45:56 PM
It looks way more scripted than COD4 from what I can remember.  At least in COD4, the enemies would shoot at you when they could see you.  These enemies have to be 10 feet away to be a threat.  The parts with the flamethrower and sniper are some of the stupidest "working" AI I've ever seen.

I don't really see any similarities to Rainbow 6 Vegas.  Every enemy was smart and lethal in that.
You're out of your fucking mind.
I'm only criticizing the AI.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 04, 2008, 03:47:58 PM
I think it's funny that the one year old jumping out of the fence enemy, at that exact same spot, hasn't changed a bit. That dude will be arriving on scene everytime in the same way.

Poor him.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 03:48:43 PM
haha what? Farcry 2 nicer looking than Crysis? Wtf are you on?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 04, 2008, 03:49:21 PM
WTF? Crysis blows away far cry 2 which still looks amazing (EVEN ON PS3!!!)
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 03:52:10 PM
It doesn't look as nice to me. I much prefer the look of Far Cry 2, and I don't particularly give a damn if Crysis technically does more. There isn't a single moment in Crysis that is as awesome looking as a simple stroll through a grassy valley in Far Cry 2. Add the day and night cycle, and it's just plain prettier.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 04, 2008, 03:52:21 PM
Duckman's PC can't even run Crysis in all its glory.

1st 3 min of Crysis > Crysis Warhead > whatever bs you wanna come up with.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 03:52:39 PM
Crysis is like leaps and bounds ahead of everything still. I pop it in ever now and then so I can see the future.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: demi on December 04, 2008, 03:54:08 PM
Crysis still looks superior

This shit seriously needs to stop?
Ultimately Crysis is boring to look at.
Crysis is simply being out budgeted several times a year by bigger console titles.
Crysis ability to render a higher amount of great looking trees with the right pc compared to any console doesn't make it better looking.
PC elitists believing console owners don't know about the pleasures of pc gaming and hardware or lack a extensive history with it.


This isn't a drohne post
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 03:56:57 PM
Duckman's PC can't even run Crysis in all its glory.

1st 3 min of Crysis > Crysis Warhead > whatever bs you wanna come up with.

I ran it with high to very high, fairly smoothly at 720. Not that I understand what that has to do with the argument, but then you guys seem as aimlessly befuddled as ever so I guess that's expected.

You know, it's really remarkable that you motherfuckers can't accept really, really simple arguments. I don't find Crysis to be the end all, be all of attractive imagery. Gob smackingly impressive, a tech feast, sure, whatever. It still doesn't make it more attractive than Far Cry 2. I'll give it props for an insanely neat looking snow and ice area, that was genuinely attractive on top of being a shader and detail wonder.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 03:57:59 PM
Well lets put it this way. Imagine you went to a school for the gifted, and a distinguished mentally-challenged child told you that 2+2 = Popcorn.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 03:59:14 PM
It's more like "no dude, you're wrong, this chick is the hottest because she's got the biggest boobs!"
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 04:03:58 PM
This game doesn't have rumble? :lol

Getting used to a controller that's ergonomically identical (and busted) to the one I first picked up 12 years ago? :lol


Game looks hot though. I got bored with the player constantly staring at inanimate objects and shit.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 04:04:33 PM
This game doesn't have rumble? :lol

What?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 04:04:50 PM
Oh, were you talking about CoD4?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 04, 2008, 04:04:55 PM
I have to say that I am a little bit worried about the AI as well, seeing as how the first game had that as a major problem. They just kind of stand there when being shot at. I like how they take cover and blind fire, but I would expect some flanking maneuvers from the enemies from a game of this budget. Hopefully they can do it right, because the game looks and sounds phenomenal.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 04:06:01 PM
Oh, were you talking about CoD4?

Yeah. Killzone 2 definitely has rumble.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 04:10:23 PM
When is this game coming out? I should have got R2 day one because now that I'm waiting for Christmas I'm going to wind up playing it for 2 months before throwing it away.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 04:10:50 PM
It's more like "no dude, you're wrong, this chick is the hottest because she's got the biggest boobs!"

So you would fuck your ps3? Not news to any of us.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 04, 2008, 04:13:28 PM
It's more like "no dude, you're wrong, this chick is the hottest because she's got the biggest boobs!"

What?

ahahahahaha

Shittiest analogy ever.

More like saying Adriana Lima looks better Kirsten Dunst. And even that doesn't work. Let's just stick to games, it's basically the same as saying that Riddick butcher bay, looks better than Killzone.

And if you say otherwise, then you are a blind dumbass.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 04:16:03 PM
Halo 3 looks better than any PS3 game released this year.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 04:16:53 PM
Falling back on the argument of taste is a very SAD way to pull out of an embarassing debate.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 04:19:09 PM
Halo 3 looks better than any PS3 game released this year.

Thats the best imitation of Duckman2000 ever!
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 04, 2008, 04:31:47 PM
halo 3 has better graphics than unfarted
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 04:43:49 PM
Falling back on the argument of taste is a very SAD way to pull out of an embarassing debate.

Beats being distinguished mentally-challenged enough to question it.  :wtf  I find Far Cry 2 to be a more attractive game. Oh no u r wrong distinguished mentally-challenged fellow it not. Hell, you idiots could have assumed that I like savannas more than I like island environments, but no.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 04:44:37 PM
Congrats on producing a worthless discussion then.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 04:50:10 PM
Most amazing is that it even produced a discussion.  :wtf
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 04:52:16 PM
PGR3 looks better than Wipeout HD
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 04:55:32 PM
You have poor taste
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 04, 2008, 04:56:14 PM

I completely disagree. Halo has a completely different sort of level design even, than COD 4 and KZ2. But COD4 and KZ2 share a lot in common.

Maybe if you were talking about Halo 1, but Halo 3 felt pretty linear to me; there were separate little chokepoints and a few could be approached by preference, but generally it was some pretty basic FPS gaming, with the possible exception being the Scarab fights. Not "scripted," but absolutely strictly predetermined by a solid map layout, with enemies here, there, and a hunter appearing there once you get past a certain point. COD4 funneled you along a remarkably linear path in claustrophobic environments, giving you very few options other than "go straight in and shoot stuff." Perhaps Killzone 2 exists somewhere between the two, but I'd say it looks to be closer to Halo 3. I haven't watched all the clips though, but the sniper video looks like it could be a Halo 3 choke point.

Maybe comparing it to Rainbow Six Vegas works better. COD4, I'm not seeing it.

A few of the Halo 3 levels were designed with different (meaningful) paths/lines. the 2nd level Rats Nest (or is it Crow's Nest, the grey one and one of the reasons it's such a great level to me) and Cortana (asshole level) come to mind, where it definately impacted the tacticts of the battle you encountered, especially on Heroic and even more so on legendary. It's not open world, or branching stuff like in one Halo 1 level, but it's a kind of freedom I really like in a level-based game.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 05:00:08 PM
Yeah, I'm not saying it's devoid of any of the sort, just that the actual battle scenarios are pretty tightly distributed and controlled. The vehicles do add something to that, but mostly you're lead from one pocket of enemies to the next, a bit like what I've seen of KZ2 so far. Nothing wrong with that at all, but I sometimes feel that people are still referring to the Halo 1 design, despite Halo 3 not having much of that.

I do hope they have something of the Scarab sort in there, a bigger enemy with some choice in how to take it down.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 05:02:15 PM
It was the more linear design that allowed them to give birth to graphics that stand the test of time
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 05:04:32 PM
It was the more linear design that allowed them to give birth to graphics that stand the test of time

Are you expecting an argument out of this? I thought Halo 3 had some pretty incredible looking stuff, more than enough to make up for the shitty looking gun models and rhinorillas.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 05:04:55 PM
I don't know where I'm going with this lol
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 04, 2008, 05:06:29 PM
everybody always talks about how pretty crysis (crisys?  crisis?  oh, who gives a fuck) is, but i can't recall a single post about whether it's a good game
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 05:11:17 PM
everybody always talks about how pretty crysis (crisys?  crisis?  oh, who gives a fuck) is, but i can't recall a single post about whether it's a good game

Actually, I thought it was a great game first and foremost. Graphics quality was nice, but it was a pain to get it there, and at some points I had to dial it down in order to deal with intense battles. The gameplay, however, was pretty crazy awesome. Unsurprisingly, the scenes that were less interesting were the ones where the game forced you to take a particular route, or use a specific means of travel.

There is one defining level, where you start off in a tank and are tasked with taking out various hardpoints between the starting point and the level end. Of course, you can also ditch the tank and use your nanosuit powers and combat wits to complete the objectives. That was pretty awesome.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 05:16:15 PM
what the fuck happened to this thread?

it went from KZ2 looks awesome, to Crysis looks better than KZ2 (truth), then ??? people are talking about Halo 3

Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 04, 2008, 05:17:18 PM
everybody always talks about how pretty crysis (crisys?  crisis?  oh, who gives a fuck) is, but i can't recall a single post about whether it's a good game

Actually, I thought it was a great game first and foremost. Graphics quality was nice, but it was a pain to get it there, and at some points I had to dial it down in order to deal with intense battles. The gameplay, however, was pretty crazy awesome. Unsurprisingly, the scenes that were less interesting were the ones where the game forced you to take a particular route, or use a specific means of travel.

There is one defining level, where you start off in a tank and are tasked with taking out various hardpoints between the starting point and the level end. Of course, you can also ditch the tank and use your nanosuit powers and combat wits to complete the objectives. That was pretty awesome.

that sounds pretty cool, i'll definitely check it out when i upgrade my pc next year
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 05:18:11 PM
everybody always talks about how pretty crysis (crisys?  crisis?  oh, who gives a fuck) is, but i can't recall a single post about whether it's a good game

It's a amazing game.  I first played it on my old PC with everything on low and it was still a blast to play.

I think both KZ2 and Crysis make people think that gorgeous games can't play awesome as well, but so far one of those has proven them wrong and the other looks to.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 05:29:47 PM
I think both KZ2 and Crysis make people think that gorgeous games can't play awesome as well, but so far one of those has proven them wrong and the other looks to.

I blame Gran Turismo
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 04, 2008, 05:33:39 PM
You saw the same thing in the lead up to the first Gears of War. Certain people were saying it was all about the graphics, KZ2 does have the infamy of KZ1 (which I didn't play).
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 06:04:56 PM
I didn't play Killzone 1 because I attempted to and realized it was borderline unplayable.  Killzone Liberation on the PSP is really awesome tho.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: MrAngryFace on December 04, 2008, 06:24:42 PM
Crysis is an above average FPS, also very pretty. Definitely a better game than Killzone 1 in all respects and until KZ2 is out, we can say its better than the Killzone series.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 04, 2008, 06:40:16 PM
Crysis is an awesome game. Very average story, but everything else is top notch.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Brehvolution on December 04, 2008, 07:06:13 PM
what the fuck happened to this thread?

it went from KZ2 looks awesome, to Crysis looks better than KZ2 (truth), then ??? people are talking about Halo 3



This is the same thing that happened in a few threads on this page. :-\
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 04, 2008, 07:06:46 PM
1up is really trying to make a name for itself  :lol
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 07:25:24 PM
I saw that video but couldn't understand a single thing that guy said.  I think the person who wrote the script had a broken space bar.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 08:02:54 PM
Alright, fine. For once in my life I was wrong, Crysis smokes Far Cry 2. Just replayed Paradise Lost and Assault. :omg

1up is really trying to make a name for itself  :lol

Is there any chance of you being able to relay what was said without it sending me into another 'murder the critics' bender?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 08:14:56 PM
"Bosses in Resistance 2 are better than those in Killzone 2.  Btw, I haven't seen any bosses in KZ2 yet"
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 08:15:50 PM
I don't get it
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 04, 2008, 08:15:54 PM
at this rate microsoft is going to have more community managers than development studios
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 08:19:54 PM
I still don't get it. Why are they comparing it to Resistance 2?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 08:21:52 PM
http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/22868

personally I had no idea what he was saying and was only reading the script from gaf
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 08:37:42 PM
Who's talking about Microsoft in here that's not joking? I was joking.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 04, 2008, 08:51:13 PM
i was just telling the old 1up joke
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 04, 2008, 08:51:45 PM
"KZ1 is better"

drohne: I made the same joke on gaf but edited it out...I kind of feel for these people. they are all going to be out of work in like a year and they have absolutely no marketable skills
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 04, 2008, 08:55:57 PM
Oh, I don't know what goes on at 1up
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 04, 2008, 09:06:13 PM
"KZ1 is better"

drohne: I made the same joke on gaf but edited it out...I kind of feel for these people. they are all going to be out of work in like a year and they have absolutely no marketable skills

I would say you're being harsh if that wasn't too true.

and just on about the guy from the kz2 video, I honestly don't think he has any real place there doing that job.  It's so weird whenever he talks about a game because it's as if he's confused about everything about that game.  Go watch the Dead Space segment.

http://gamevideos.1up.com/video/id/22140
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 10:01:45 PM
You know, watching the Dead Space bit, I don't think it's so much a problem with the games, but rather a problem with the "experts" really just being a bunch of jaded, hateful, burned out old prima donnas of the nerd variety. And I know a lot about being a hateful person.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Purple Filth on December 04, 2008, 11:06:09 PM
You know, watching the Dead Space bit, I don't think it's so much a problem with the games, but rather a problem with the "experts" really just being a bunch of jaded, hateful, burned out old prima donnas of the nerd variety. And I know a lot about being a hateful person.


Yea i see why you picked duckman as your username.


never taken reviewers seriously and i will just play it my self and be the judge.

On topic the game looks hot looking forward to playing it one day.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 04, 2008, 11:48:41 PM
Speaking of hot, that flamethrower is borderline disturbing.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Purple Filth on December 04, 2008, 11:59:23 PM
Speaking of hot, that flamethrower is borderline disturbing.


I'm assuming your talking when he burned the dude and he was screaming and trying to out the fire.

If so then yes it was.

Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 05, 2008, 12:15:35 AM
I think he's talking about the ways in which it looks like urine
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 05, 2008, 12:19:43 AM
I think he's talking about the ways in which it looks like urine

Well, no. What? I hadn't even thought of that. But I'm sure I will from here on, so thank you.

I like that it's more of a liquid base than your common game blowtorch, but it doesn't seem like it operates at very high pressure. I assume that's one of those "had to be balanced for the game" things.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 05, 2008, 07:17:22 AM
which video has the flamethrower?

I'm curious to see if it looks good in this game since I think most games end up having a pretty lame looking flame thrower.  Gears 2 looks like it was spitting orange textures at people, not that it mattered considering how fun it was to use.  Far Cry 2 seemed to have a good one in old trailers.  Halo 3 also surprisingly had a good one.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 05, 2008, 07:31:44 AM
I don't think the flame effects look very good, from the flame thrower or explosions. The smoke effects are great though
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 05, 2008, 07:33:14 AM
Outside of the enemy reaction to looking burned and the actual model, that KZ2 flamethrower looks so bad. Hopefully it isn't final because how bad it looks compared to everything else is extremely jarring.  It's not even like the Resistance one where it has ashy spray, this is like a thin ashy line that goes downward.  Seriously looks horrible there.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 05, 2008, 11:04:55 AM
You guys are crazy. It's actually working like a liquid, which alone sets it apart from the baseline blowtorch crud. It just needs some more pressure, and it will be golden. Right now it looks like a functional flamethrower, except of the Super Soaker variety.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 05, 2008, 01:23:51 PM
Flamethrower is nothing special.

COD WOW, Gears 2, Halo 3, Far Cry 2 all had amazing flame throwers and i don't see anything worth talking about here.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 05, 2008, 04:00:27 PM
So apparantly the campaign has pointing arrow feature to show you the direction you're going, similar to PDZ.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 05, 2008, 04:02:06 PM
So apparantly the campaign has pointing arrow feature to show you the direction you're going, similar to PDZ.

I haven't seen any of that in the videos. But then critics have been complaining about getting lost, so hey. Go critics, maybe by the time it launches they will have also narrowed down the levels and made the controls feel exactly like COD4.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 05, 2008, 04:06:16 PM
It's usually not a good sign of level design (in a lineair first person shooter) and they focus tested and people got lost.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 05, 2008, 04:09:16 PM
I blame COD4 for dulling everyone into rejecting intricacy. Then again, I also never understood why PDZ had it either, the levels weren't that complex. Just add some faint map/radar, problem solved. As long as it's optional, and not of the sort that automatically enables arrows on lower difficulties.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 05, 2008, 04:14:35 PM
"a pointing arrow" (even if it's optional) is not always a sign of 'good complexity" (like in PDZ), the levels in PDZ were very bad and confusing designed and the pointing arrow was a bad bandaid.

We'll see how it plays out in KZ2.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 05, 2008, 04:17:38 PM
So apparantly the campaign has pointing arrow feature to show you the direction you're going, similar to PDZ.

If you're talking about what they said on the 1upshow, it didn't seem like there was an arrow telling you where to go, but a a mark telling you were your waypoint/objective is like in pretty much every other game.  Of course I'm going by what they said since they didn't show any footage of it, so if there is footage that shows different, post it.  
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 05, 2008, 04:23:10 PM
I could be misinterpreting it then as they didn't show any footage of it.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 05, 2008, 04:26:07 PM
Flamethrower does look weird, do real flamethrowers act like that?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 05, 2008, 04:26:54 PM
It's a napalm thrower, yes.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 05, 2008, 04:28:15 PM
Ah, kind of like this
(http://cosmodromemag.com/files/US_riverboat_using_napalm_in_Vietnam.jpg)

I was wondering why it looked like someone pissing
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 05, 2008, 04:40:24 PM
Yeah, it's liquid as opposed to the propane-type that most games seem to go for. Good fit for military purposes as it burns by adherence as opposed to just thermal shock. It would be pretty cool if they did something more with the valve there, like give you the option of adjustable pressure for close quarters or battlefield application. Hopefully some naggy journalist has mentioned the lack of pressure, as I understand this is a quite old build.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 05, 2008, 05:17:58 PM
I do understand the different types of flamethrowers here, but I still don't think that graphically it looks very good.  That is seriously the only part of the game does look bad to me.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 05, 2008, 06:24:35 PM
Well i hope the scripting is good in the retail game.

I've heard very good things about it, story wise also, so while i thought the beginning of that landing on the "warzone" was "ok", i mean, you can't really go wrong with the "we just got hit", oh and on a sidenote, and the cutscene kinda showed some weak spots gfx wise, i mean Res5 cutcenes look better, but whatever, besides the point, fact is the whole, reach meet cutcene, and right away have a lamo ass and needless six axis moment, was kinda like "pump up the breaks kid, this is totally the wrong direction to go", but i liked what i saw aside from that.

Very intense, very good looking, although when the weapon isn't dipped in motion blur it looks like i went back to COD4 but, loooks amazing.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 05, 2008, 06:41:23 PM
halo's level design was better before they started focus testing it for the sequels

edit: er, except for all the copy-pasted corridors, obviously
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 05, 2008, 06:51:06 PM
If someone played the Cortana level and didn't think it was distinguished mentally-challenged, I don't really see how they ever got that job.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 05, 2008, 06:51:59 PM
Halo 3 level design was great, aside from the absolute dreadful flood crib level.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Purple Filth on December 06, 2008, 08:13:50 AM
Gamersyde removed all of the vids.

I wonder what happened between them and Sony/Guerilla
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 06, 2008, 08:42:03 AM
People don't know how to play Cortana properly. Just run whenever you can, platform to higher ground, use the powerups to avoid one of the harder chokepoints --> easy and fun level (even on legendary).
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 06, 2008, 11:36:44 AM
don't try and pull that 'people didn't play it right' crap.  It was poorly designed and as someone who enjoyed, and presumably correctly played, every other level it was just that level that was poorly designed.  If Bungie had a 'right' way to play it, it wouldn't have such hate towards it, so clearly they have failed with that level.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 06, 2008, 12:03:43 PM
Gamersyde removed all of the vids.

I wonder what happened between them and Sony/Guerilla

Quote
Some of you may have noticed that we removed our videos of Killzone 2 from the site.

The reason is that, by showing you most of the levels featured in the preview code, we caused more harm to the publisher Sony and the developer Guerrilla than we could ever have imagined.

We got carried away by our enthusiasm and our desire to share the content of this fantastic preview with you. This is an unforgivable misconduct as professionnals, and as journalists.

Therefore, we have permanently removed all the concerned files. And to the people working at Guerrilla and Sony we'd like to adress our public apologies.

The Gamersyde team.

To our fellow members and readers, we are aware that you were all very pleased by our videos and that you will probably want to find us excuses.

If you really want to support us please do so by avoiding polemics and trying to recognize Sony and Guerrilla’s fundamental right to protect their intellectual properties.

Thank you all in advance.

http://www.gamersyde.com/news_7388_en.html
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 06, 2008, 12:17:09 PM
don't try and pull that 'people didn't play it right' crap.  It was poorly designed and as someone who enjoyed, and presumably correctly played, every other level it was just that level that was poorly designed.  If Bungie had a 'right' way to play it, it wouldn't have such hate towards it, so clearly they have failed with that level.
Don't get offended, I'm just telling you a way to enjoy Cortana and have an easy ride!
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 06, 2008, 02:55:17 PM
People don't know how to play Cortana properly. Just run whenever you can, platform to higher ground, use the powerups to avoid one of the harder chokepoints --> easy and fun level (even on legendary).

Worst opinion ever
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tieno on December 06, 2008, 03:03:21 PM
People don't know how to play Cortana properly. Just run whenever you can, platform to higher ground, use the powerups to avoid one of the harder chokepoints --> easy and fun level (even on legendary).

Worst opinion ever

It's more like advice on how to possibly play.

Go play some Ubisoft game!
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 06, 2008, 04:32:12 PM
don't try and pull that 'people didn't play it right' crap.  It was poorly designed and as someone who enjoyed, and presumably correctly played, every other level it was just that level that was poorly designed.  If Bungie had a 'right' way to play it, it wouldn't have such hate towards it, so clearly they have failed with that level.
Don't get offended, I'm just telling you a way to enjoy Cortana and have an easy ride!

not offended, it's just that the Cortana level is mind boggling.  Bungie is a good developer, they made two games that play 90% the same and were aware of the good/bad parts of those, they knew this was the biggest game for the Xbox 360, and yet somehow that level still made it in despite all this.  Hopefully with ODST they realize what is fun about the Halo games, then again it will probably play different from all previous Halo games, so let's see how that will turn out.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 11:57:23 AM
It's like Bungie kept telling themselves "We can do this, we can make a flood level work!!!!"
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 11:57:56 AM
But they never did  :'(
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 12:03:24 PM
They ain't done yet.  :-\
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 08, 2008, 12:15:53 PM
That one in halo 3 that takes place in the city is pretty good. What's that, mission 6? It's the one where the first hidden skull is being carried by a guy jumping over your head.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 12:18:31 PM
That one in halo 3 that takes place in the city is pretty good. What's that, mission 6? It's the one where the first hidden skull is being carried by a guy jumping over your head.
Mission 5, yes, that one isn't bad. Well, it's not as good as 4 or 6, but it's not bad.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tabasco on December 08, 2008, 03:33:25 PM
It doesn't suck b/c it's only 10 minutes long.

I'm glad Bungie is doing sort of a reboot with ODST.  Halo 3 had a bit too much feature creep.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 04:06:55 PM
They should really drop brutes and go back to elites. Brutes were NEVER as fun. I don't know why they sacrificed their gameplay for their own stupid narrative.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 04:08:22 PM
apparently some people think Halo has an interesting story
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Tabasco on December 08, 2008, 04:19:43 PM
They should really drop brutes and go back to elites. Brutes were NEVER as fun. I don't know why they sacrificed their gameplay for their own stupid narrative.

I agree.  But going by that trailer, the Brutes will be back :(
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 05:48:26 PM
apparently some people think Halo has an interesting story

Crazy, huh? Halo was at its absolute best when it was a great shooter with just enough (borrowed, cliched) story to tie the action pieces together and keep things interesting. I also thought the actual setting, this mysterious ring world, added a lot to the first game, and of course most of that was void in the sequels. I really liked Halo 3, though. If they could have just taken some bold measure and ditched the story path that Halo 2 shat the series into.

And for the record, I like the Flood. It's a great throwback to old school shooting fun. But for some reason, they always come with the baggage of operating in the worst possible settings.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 08, 2008, 06:02:59 PM
The brutes and the flood in H3 were fun.  Especially if you were using the flamethrower against the flood since it takes like one "shot" to kill them.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 06:23:26 PM
The brutes and Flood in Halo 3 were very good adversaries.

It was the cortana level that was shit, the so called "Flood level", just like the library was a flood level, and Halo 2? I barely remember that pos.

Halo 1 was great, halo 2 was pos, Halo 3 was the best of them all. I don't see a problem with the story, or enemy choices.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 08, 2008, 07:47:30 PM
halo 2 and halo 3 feel like two halves of one game to me, and i remember halo 2 more fondly because i was so ridiculously hyped for that game. i downloaded the french leak, softmodded my xbox just to play it, and just about jizzed. in. my. pants. when i heard the title screen music

and incidentally that one bit where you're the arbiter on that gondola fighting flood with a bunch of other elites is still the only really good flood moment
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 08, 2008, 07:51:47 PM
i liked the flood in the first game, those little popcorn skull things made me panic

been reading this thread off and on - starting to get a little hyped for kz2, sounds great and those videos are  :o

i didn't get more than an hour into the first one
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 07:55:55 PM
i've finished the ps2 and psp games

the psp game is actually excellent, more people should play it. it's tough as nails though.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 08:03:14 PM
i didn't get more than an hour into the first one

You're better off having not played it. There were some neat things there, but the game was a broken mess. Killzone 2 seems to be everything that Killzone so badly wanted, but utterly (and comically) failed, to deliver.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 08, 2008, 08:05:30 PM
I am a fan of the PSP game as well. I could never beat the final boss of the campaign expansion that came out last May.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: drohne on December 08, 2008, 08:05:59 PM
the first killzone had some strong visual elements and did the gritty immersive fps thing before it was cool, but i couldn't play much of it either. liberation rocks. i need to get back to it
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 08:07:30 PM
I'll give Killzone 1 this: it had the neatest looking beach/dune environment I've seen in a game.

Oh yeah, and the by far sweetest knife kills.  :omg
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 08:08:19 PM
I am a fan of the PSP game as well. I could never beat the final boss of the campaign expansion that came out last May.

yes! It's hard as fucking balls! I know though that Tempy had fights with his team (well, the team he is on as a level designer) about the difficulty. He wanted it not as hard and they wanted it even harder. KZL is fuckfabulous.

KZ1 also does the "camera bob" stuff like Far Cry 2 and other modern shooters.'

kz1 is actually really pretty. which is why it runs at like 5 fps.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 08, 2008, 08:11:48 PM
I was a big fan of KZ1 as well. I beat the campaign on normal difficulty (not many highlights, other than that first trench level) and I even played the multiplayer portion quite a bit. The cheaters and glitchers ruined any fun there was to be had, plus the game was laggy as hell. It was also one of only a handful of game to have bots for offline co-op and they weren't bad in the AI department.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 09:10:11 PM
i've finished the ps2 and psp games

the psp game is actually excellent, more people should play it. it's tough as nails though.

if it wasn't for the psp game I would have no faith that the devs could make a proper game.  Liberation is really, really good.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 09:10:58 PM
I was a big fan of KZ1 as well. I beat the campaign on normal difficulty (not many highlights, other than that first trench level) and I even played the multiplayer portion quite a bit. The cheaters and glitchers ruined any fun there was to be had, plus the game was laggy as hell. It was also one of only a handful of game to have bots for offline co-op and they weren't bad in the AI department.

the trench level rocks! they're like CHAARRRRGEEEEEEEEEEEE lol
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 09:24:04 PM
KZ1 was crap.

"Scatterrrr grenade"
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 09:41:26 PM
I can't understand how you would think how Halo 1 > Halo 3. Halo 3 is Halo 1, but better.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 09:46:38 PM
I can't understand how you would think how Halo 1 > Halo 3. Halo 3 is Halo 1, but better.

Too much emphasis on a bad and poorly presented story. Also: Elites > Brutes. The environments were also cooler in Halo, and the galaxy hopping that was introduced in Halo 2 has been a constant detriment to the feeling of and attachment to location. Weapons were cooler than ever, and Bungie did real good with the Scarab fights, but it just doesn't measure up to the original.

i remember halo 2 more fondly because i was so ridiculously hyped for that game. i downloaded the french leak, softmodded my xbox just to play it, and just about jizzed. in. my. pants. when i heard the title screen music

First (and last) time I ever stood in a line for a midnight release. I was all hopped up on that attract video that was leaked.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 09:50:02 PM
Meh, completely disagree, Halo 1 lacked direction, it was repetitive and boring. Halo 3 is everything good cranked up to 11, better direction, more story, more epicness.

Funny, Halo 3 is the kind of game to me that, each time i play it, the more i like it, it's very impressive on that level. And it's very very rare for a game to do that, to me anyway.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 09:50:59 PM
ur dum
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 09:51:52 PM
Not exactly surprising differences in opinion here. Didn't you say that you're a fan of rollercoaster, scripted design? Nothing wrong with that, but I could see how Halo 3 would be a more interesting game if so. More story isn't really a positive, though.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 09:53:49 PM
I remember skipping school for Halo 2.  I didn't go at midnight, but I went at 8 am to pick it up, then played it all day.  I was so hyped for that game.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 09:54:33 PM
bomba game
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 10:02:12 PM
ur dum

 :tomato

Not exactly surprising differences in opinion here. Didn't you say that you're a fan of rollercoaster, scripted design? Nothing wrong with that, but I could see how Halo 3 would be a more interesting game if so. More story isn't really a positive, though.

Yes. But i don't think Halo 3 has any less of a sandbox component in combat, in comparison to Halo 1. I think it's a fine balancing act between having a more directed course of events like in halo 2, and having this sort of free form combat as seen in halo 1.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 10:04:41 PM
halo 3 is not even CLOSE to as scripted as the cod games

that's why i like halo :D
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 10:05:41 PM
The only game this gen that is more scripted than CoD4 is The Club, but that's actually the point in it.

Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 10:07:03 PM
I call bullshit. Heavenly Sword is more scripted than COD.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 10:08:11 PM
I call bullshit. Heavenly Sword is more scripted than COD.

...lol

buzz quiz tv is more scripted
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 10:08:42 PM
You don't think it is?  ???
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 10:09:27 PM
aw come on, you knew I was talking about shooters

and actually it would probably be some shit like blacksite or that shitty WW2 in Ameruka one
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 10:10:52 PM
Actually i wasn't. You said the club, and since the club wasn't a(an?) FPS, it kinda flew past my head.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 10:11:35 PM
Yes. But i don't think Halo 3 has any less of a sandbox component in combat, in comparison to Halo 1.

But it does, though. Skirmish combat is (somewhat) free form, but is there really a situation in Halo 3 that is comparable to Attack on the Control Room, where if you time it right you can steal a Banshee, and make it a bombardment mission? Halo 3 feels borderline on rails, when compared to Halo. I like the game, but the available strategies of attack and level completion feels a lot more like Halo 2 than it does Halo. I'm a big fan of the open ended approach. I'm not going to call Halo "sandbox," because that would really be a slap on the teeth of genuinely open ended games, but it offered enough of it to keep things interesting, and surprising.

Quote
Nothing wrong with that, but I could see how Halo 3 would be a more interesting game if so.
but it still takes a heavy AI/organic route even when it has set up the scenarios which means they never play out the same.

I didn't see anything of this in my one and a half playthrough. I experienced a very good but pretty linear shooter, with good weaponry and some added strategies thanks to vehicles. But I'm not sure I can recall a single scenario that wasn't about going from a strict point A to an equally strict point B, with pockets of enemies scattered in outposts in between. The Scarab fights probably offered the most in this respect.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 10:12:29 PM
The Club is still a shooter, which more or less these days covers anything from Gears 2 to Left 4 Dead to Far Cry 2

Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 08, 2008, 10:18:52 PM
To keep this almost on topic, I'll just say that I hope that Killzone 2 is a bit more like Halo than like Halo 2/3. Wrika will disagree completely, and I'm sure he will get his wish, what with gaming trends being what they are and all.  :-\
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 10:19:08 PM
Well, in Halo 3 for example, i'll just use this one example, but in halo 3 there's the 1st scarab fight right?

Now, the ways you approach that combat scenario is astounding, i even took pictures of what i had done backthen. See, i grabbed an ATV, went up the elevator with the ATV, at the top there's a ramp, i waited for the scarab to position in just the right way, i went pedal to the metal, threw myself on the ATV all the way to the Scarab "control room" ramp, now there's 2 elites in this ramp, and i fucking nailed the gap, landed on the ramp inside the control room, roadkilled 2 elites with the atv on the landing, then i got out of the ATV, and wrecked havok.

Now, that is something i came up with when i was playing, it was totally on me, and it was glorious. And i can also say there's nothing like that in Halo 1, but the point is that the free form approach to the combat is totally there in Halo 3, that's why it's a game that the more i play it, the more i like it, because i change strategies, and it's because the A.I and the way the game is designed is, for the most part, so good.

To keep this almost on topic, I'll just say that I hope that Killzone 2 is a bit more like Halo than like Halo 2/3. Wrika will disagree completely, and I'm sure he will get his wish, what with gaming trends being what they are and all.  :-\

Well Killzone looks more like COD, so it doesn't even look like Halo 2, even Less Halo 3/Halo 1.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 10:34:52 PM
i dropped in on hornets for the second fight with my coop partner :D
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 08, 2008, 11:24:28 PM
Not to diss on Kz2 or anything, but seeing how scripted it is, how the waves of enemies are scripted in the game, how limited the environment vs enemy seems to be, i don't see anything close to Halo 3 in Kz2.

Bears repeating, it's much more COD than anything else, in the way it plays out, although the feel of the mechanics themselves are different.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: Brehvolution on December 08, 2008, 11:34:03 PM
WTF is this shit?!?

Can't a nukka play a game in peace?

"oh, its just like this shoota..."

cmon
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 08, 2008, 11:35:16 PM
Cod's popularity (it IS more popular than halo now) is something we will need to come to grips with. though even kz1 was codish, so you already know what to expect.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: cool breeze on December 08, 2008, 11:59:05 PM
i dropped in on hornets for the second fight with my coop partner :D

Same here.  That part was so awesome and I felt like a total badass landing and taking care of business before bailing out for the next one. 

I still need to do Halo 3 4 player co-op one day and am a bit mad they don't let you with 4 random people.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 12:12:40 AM
Well, I guess we've come full circle; I still think it looks more like Rainbow Six than COD.  :P In terms level and mission design, not gameplay. It's not really that there is anything wrong with scripted stuff, but I feel like we're rapidly being drowned in them. What's Novalogic doing these days?

Do we know anything more about the Gamersyde situation, by the way?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 03:26:15 AM
Speaking of which, I just noticed that the beta is still alive.  :hyper Such a sweet shotgun.  :heartbeat
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 09, 2008, 03:41:07 AM
Well, I guess we've come full circle; I still think it looks more like Rainbow Six than COD.  :P In terms level and mission design, not gameplay.
How is it at all like R6?

There's a lot of similarities to CoD because basically every encounter looks pretty scripted.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 04:05:51 AM
Well, I guess we've come full circle; I still think it looks more like Rainbow Six than COD.  :P In terms level and mission design, not gameplay.
How is it at all like R6?

There's a lot of similarities to CoD because basically every encounter looks pretty scripted.

:wtf Have you actually played a Rainbow Six game as of late? Or a COD? Combat is multi-planar, with several path options and hardpoints per plane. That in itself separates it significantly from standard COD design, and outs it far closer to Rainbow Six design. Add slower pacing and a cover fire system, and it's absolutely more of Rainbow Six than it is COD.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 11:36:23 AM
Quote
Have you actually played a Rainbow Six game as of late? Or a COD? Combat is multi-planar, with several path options and hardpoints per plane. That in itself separates it significantly from standard COD design, and outs it far closer to Rainbow Six design. Add slower pacing and a cover fire system, and it's absolutely more of Rainbow Six than it is COD.

huh? we are talking about single player here?

the TGS demo was -nothing- like Rainbow 6.

unless you are talking about multiplayer.


I'm also talking about more than the TGS demo, like for example what's in the videos from the OP. I'm not saying it'd fit in seamlessly as Rainbow Six Helghan, but if we're going to reference other games, it's certainly a hell of a lot closer to that model than it is to for example COD4.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 09, 2008, 04:33:13 PM
I finished both the Vegas games and this isn't like R6 at all.  There are NO alternative ways to finish the fights in KZ2 because you have a relatively limited amount of different equipment/guns and the AI is not dynamic.  Vegas was awesome because the enemies were smart, forcing you to outgun/outgear them if  you wanted a chance at getting past them.  The gamersyde videos show that the guy is not playing it on god mode and  yet he only dies once when an enemy is 10 feet away from him.  The player sucks but he's having no real difficulty finding and shooting the enemies.  The scripting is obvious because the enemies just ignore you most of the time and they even fall over the same rail in the exact same spot a lot of times.

It's basically like CoD with a cover system but stupider AI.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: WrikaWrek on December 09, 2008, 04:37:48 PM
The only difference between Vegas and COD is how the spawning works.

You still have trigger points in vegas, like Cod. Then the mechanics of the game change it. KZ has cover, but it doesn't have squad, which means the mechanics are some way between COD and Vegas, but that's besides the point.

My point was, alongside with trigger points in KZ, you also have the spawning that according to what i read/heard, works like COD, you have to push forward.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 09, 2008, 04:43:58 PM
You take cover in every FPS.  Cover actually seems more necessary in CoD than KZ2.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 04:47:28 PM
I finished both the Vegas games and this isn't like R6 at all.  There are NO alternative ways to finish the fights in KZ2 because you have a relatively limited amount of different equipment/guns and the AI is not dynamic.  Vegas was awesome because the enemies were smart, forcing you to outgun/outgear them if  you wanted a chance at getting past them.  The gamersyde videos show that the guy is not playing it on god mode and  yet he only dies once when an enemy is 10 feet away from him.  The player sucks but he's having no real difficulty finding and shooting the enemies.  The scripting is obvious because the enemies just ignore you most of the time and they even fall over the same rail in the exact same spot a lot of times.

The "A.I." is about as dynamic as that room layout allows them to be, on a generally daft, albeit very accurate, level. And of course, Rainbow Six Vegas has its own vast share of scripted encounters, with enemies appearing in the same spots at the same time, every time. Not to mention that it's indeed very possible to from time to time get very close to enemies in Vegas, thanks to odd pockets of remarkable A.I. stupidity. Better still is when you can fire off a rifle round and take out a terrorist on the stairs across the yard, without actually alerting the patrol guard who stands 20ft away from you. How elite.

 It'd be nice if Vegas was actually up to the standards you have set here, but it really is not. Higher difficulties add increased lethality to the mix, but that's about all that can be said for it.

It's basically like CoD with a cover system but stupider AI.

You really should check out the COD games one of these days, at least if you're going to insist on comparing them to other games. Either you haven't played them, or your impressions are affected by the same mystery issue that has caused you to dream up a Vegas that is far more than either of the actual games.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 09, 2008, 05:03:14 PM
The "A.I." is about as dynamic as that room layout allows them to be, on a generally daft, albeit very accurate, level. And of course, Rainbow Six Vegas has its own vast share of scripted encounters, with enemies appearing in the same spots at the same time, every time. Not to mention that it's indeed very possible to get very close to enemies in Vegas. It'd be nice if Vegas was actually up to the standards you have set here, but it really is not. Higher difficulties add increased lethality to the mix, but that's about all that can be said for it.

You really should check out the COD games one of these days, at least if you're going to insist on comparing them to other games. Either you haven't played them, or your impressions are affected by the same mystery issue that has caused you to dream up a Vegas that is far more than either of the actual games.
Scripted encounters=/=scripted AI.  If you're replaying the game, you'll know where the enemies are patrolling in R6.  The difference is that they will try to flush you out the second they find out you're there.  R6 is very easy until the enemy knows that you exist.  The Helghast however just charge at you and have very bad aim.  I'm guessing that the game designer wants them to look more insane than tactical but that also ends up sucking the fun out of shooting them.

CoD seems to have funner AI from what I remember of it.  It had a nice variety of choke points and types of missions.  From saving a prisoner to invading a continent to whatever you had to do to finish Heat.  KZ2 is looking pretty repetitive but hopefully there's a lot of unique missions that they haven't shown yet.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 05:19:17 PM
Scripted encounters=/=scripted AI.  If you're replaying the game, you'll know where the enemies are patrolling in R6.  The difference is that they will try to flush you out the second they find out you're there.  R6 is very easy until the enemy knows that you exist.  The Helghast however just charge at you and have very bad aim.  I'm guessing that the game designer wants them to look more insane than tactical but that also ends up sucking the fun out of shooting them.

Huh? The Gamersyde videos that I've seen show self-preservation, suppression, repositioning, and such. Not to say that they are without seriously dodgy moments, but it's not even close to as simplistic as you describe it. I guess it's missing an expressed flank maneuver, but then that's not exactly the status quo behavior of terrorists in R6V either, is it now? Of course, you also said that every enemy in R6V was smart and lethal, so hey. And wouldn't "scripted A.I." suggest more instant (triggered) reactions?

CoD seems to have funner AI from what I remember of it.  It had a nice variety of choke points and types of missions.  From saving a prisoner to invading a continent to whatever you had to do to finish Heat.  KZ2 is looking pretty repetitive but hopefully there's a lot of unique missions that they haven't shown yet.

:wtf What in the hell does mission design have to do with enemy behavior, let alone the supposed relative smarts of said enemies?
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: y2kev on December 09, 2008, 05:21:25 PM
Quote
The Helghast however just charge at you and have very bad aim.

This isn't even true in the first fucking game.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: duckman2000 on December 09, 2008, 07:24:54 PM
Quote
The Helghast however just charge at you and have very bad aim.

This isn't even true in the first fucking game.

Seriously. If anything, they were a little too good at keeping their distance. And, apparently, quite fond of reloading without having actually fired any shots.
Title: Re: 12 Killzone 2 videos: thread dedicated to duckman
Post by: brawndolicious on December 09, 2008, 08:40:50 PM
y2kev, I never played the first KZ and I'm just going off of these videos.
Huh? The Gamersyde videos that I've seen show self-preservation, suppression, repositioning, and such. Not to say that they are without seriously dodgy moments, but it's not even close to as simplistic as you describe it. I guess it's missing an expressed flank maneuver, but then that's not exactly the status quo behavior of terrorists in R6V either, is it now? Of course, you also said that every enemy in R6V was smart and lethal, so hey. And wouldn't "scripted A.I." suggest more instant (triggered) reactions?
yeah, the videos show the guy moving forward and not standing in the open too much.  It's not a very complicated game to play and the enemy hardly presented a challenge so I'm going to have to say that the AI is just bad.  And probably scripted.  In R6V, the enemy would flank you if they could but you usually surround them beforehand.  R6V was fun because you had to use your better weapons and gears to take out all of the enemies before they got into a strong position.  The AI in KZ2 simply doesn't seem to take the upper-ground, try to flank you, etc.  They're I think defending their planet in this game so you would expect them to be entrenched a little.

:wtf What in the hell does mission design have to do with enemy behavior, let alone the supposed relative smarts of said enemies?
Well when you have a game with scripted AI like CoD or KZ2, you have to change how the enemies react in different situations.  How they don't hear silencers, take cover when you send a helicopter after them, run from the explosions when you fire at them from a AC130 gunship, etc.  In games with scripted AI, you have to change the scenarios A LOT to make the game interesting.  That's why I'm hoping for some really unique missions to be in the final game (even though I'll probably never play it not having a PS3).