THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Purple Filth on December 18, 2008, 09:51:46 AM

Title: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Purple Filth on December 18, 2008, 09:51:46 AM
 Stolen from GAF
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=345953


http://www.videogaming247.com/2008/1...tting-up-shop/
http://www.gamesindustry.biz/article...ancial-trouble
http://www.eurogamer.net/articles/fr...n-closes-doors
http://www.computerandvideogames.com...04401&site=cvg

Seems they couldn't get any publisher for TimeSplitters 4 and were also taken off Battlefront 3 (replaced with Rebellion). Also rumor is that David Doak is gone as well.

Ouch. :'(

duckman  :violin
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: ToxicAdam on December 18, 2008, 09:53:08 AM
Hate to see people lose jobs, but they haven't exactly lit the world on fire with their releases.


Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 18, 2008, 10:54:02 AM
Good riddance.  They should have developed more games for the market leader.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Grecco on December 18, 2008, 11:01:16 AM
Fucking Haze. Ill never get a TS4 because of that shit game now
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 18, 2008, 11:02:18 AM
Good riddance.  They should have developed more games that weren't terrible like Haze.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 18, 2008, 11:13:57 AM
Fixed.

I guess not everyone was in on the joke  :-\
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 18, 2008, 11:16:35 AM
Not surprising. They had their chance to make something wicked, and they blew it. I figured a Timesplitters game on Wii could have saved the them, but then that would have been pretty sad.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Bocsius on December 18, 2008, 11:22:52 AM
I played a Timesplitters demo once.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 18, 2008, 11:24:12 AM
I had this stylish "Say No to Timesplitters" avatar once
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Bocsius on December 18, 2008, 11:24:50 AM
You Free Radical viral marketer you
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 18, 2008, 11:26:50 AM
A paycheck is no match for the desire to troll the one shooter that Cube fans could like
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Bocsius on December 18, 2008, 11:28:09 AM
A paycheck is no match for the desire to troll the one shooter that Cube fans could like

Geist.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 18, 2008, 11:29:42 AM
Geist was practically self-trolling, though. I mean, what can you say about a game that prides itself in letting you to possess dog food? Without guidance, Timesplitters could be confused for a good game.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 18, 2008, 11:32:54 AM
We Nfags don't need Timesplitters.  We've got The Conduit.

Best. FPS. Ever.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 18, 2008, 12:16:36 PM
I wonder if that loud mouth writer/poorly advised PR dude will ever get a job as a writer again. Not that I think he should carry all the blame for Haze, but if you're going to pimp the remarkably specialness of your script, it had better be special. In a good way, even.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Yeti on December 18, 2008, 12:18:01 PM
Timpesplitters 2 was my favorite FPS for a long time. I bought Timesplitters 3 and I still haven't bothered to play it.  :-\
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 18, 2008, 12:29:57 PM
On a separate note, quite a few people on that other board are really fucking out of touch with the reality of things.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: The Sceneman on December 18, 2008, 01:54:30 PM
played the hell out of TS2 & 3, Free Radical had some talent, this is a real shame  :(
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 18, 2008, 02:14:45 PM
The couldn't get a publisher for Timesplitters? Really? I'd understand EA not picking it up but Atari and SEGA wouldn't bite either?

The last Timesplitters game sold about 60k copies across all three platforms its first month.

Would you be willing to bankroll a sequel to that, especially after seeing Haze crash and burn?
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: trippingmartian on December 18, 2008, 02:40:47 PM
They never quite met the bar that was raised by console shooters like Halo.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: cool breeze on December 18, 2008, 03:08:59 PM
It's a shame considering Haze was their first bad game
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 18, 2008, 03:22:02 PM
Timesplitters never had particularly great singleplayer, but it did have some really awesome multiplayer. Especially the mode where one person is one fire and they have to "tag" everyone else.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: HyperZoneWasAwesome on December 18, 2008, 03:59:02 PM
It's a shame considering Haze was their first bad game
too right man.

this fucking sucks.  It sounds like losing their deal with Lucasarts is what killed them dead.  They already put two years into Battlefront and Lucasarts just pulled the plug on them, WTF?  Not that I needed any, but this gives me another reason to hate on George Lucas.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Draft on December 18, 2008, 03:59:43 PM
Element the insider says Free Radical was hard to work with.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Phoenix Dark on December 18, 2008, 04:11:16 PM
should have developed timesplitters for the wii amirite

/ntard
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 18, 2008, 04:20:34 PM
(http://i41.photobucket.com/albums/e295/JoeMolotov/haze1.jpg)
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 18, 2008, 10:32:07 PM
Another bulletpoint in my anti-hd gaming agenda.  Whats the point of getting into this industry if one flop is going to kill your company?  I doubt if haze was any good things would have turned out differently.  Although if Haze was critically celebrated I could see them not having their contracts with LucasArts suspended.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: drohne on December 18, 2008, 10:34:47 PM
there's only one bulletpoint in your anti hd gaming agenda and its name is bill
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 18, 2008, 10:41:22 PM
wut
...
like
...
Bullet Bill?
I expect better from drohne.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: demi on December 18, 2008, 10:44:52 PM
Another bulletpoint in my anti-hd gaming agenda.  Whats the point of getting into this industry if one flop is going to kill your company?  I doubt if haze was any good things would have turned out differently.  Although if Haze was critically celebrated I could see them not having their contracts with LucasArts suspended.

Free Radical wasnt exactly a high profile dev with mega hits... try harder
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 18, 2008, 10:51:10 PM
Thats kind of my point. 
Come to think of it, there's nothing wrong with being a small dev house that does everything via digital distribution.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 18, 2008, 10:54:13 PM
i sort of liked that last timesplitters game
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 18, 2008, 11:07:07 PM
That really sucks. Wasn't TimeSplitters pretty consistent bank? The Haze dud shouldn't have nixed TS4 :(
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 18, 2008, 11:55:38 PM
Another bulletpoint in my anti-hd gaming agenda.  Whats the point of getting into this industry if one flop is going to kill your company?  I doubt if haze was any good things would have turned out differently.  Although if Haze was critically celebrated I could see them not having their contracts with LucasArts suspended.

Why the fuck would you have an anti-hd gaming agenda

Let me tell you about my anti-Blu-ray agenda...DVD for life

Seriously, dude, what the fuck?
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: demi on December 18, 2008, 11:56:36 PM
EmCee is a known Luddite... dont worry
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: CurseoftheGods on December 18, 2008, 11:58:51 PM
The couldn't get a publisher for Timesplitters? Really? I'd understand EA not picking it up but Atari and SEGA wouldn't bite either?

The last Timesplitters game sold about 60k copies across all three platforms its first month.

Would you be willing to bankroll a sequel to that, especially after seeing Haze crash and burn?

Timesplitters 2 sold great though and made it to Player's Choice on GCN and Greatest Hits on PS2. TS3 was just released in the wrong time with virtually no marketing behind it.  
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: TVC15 on December 19, 2008, 12:00:27 AM
IF ONLY FREE RADICAL HAD RELEASED THEIR OBJECTIVELY TERRIBLE GAME ON WII THEY'D STILL BE ALIVE!
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 12:10:14 AM
Timesplitters 2 sold great though and made it to Player's Choice on GCN and Greatest Hits on PS2. TS3 was just released in the wrong time with virtually no marketing behind it.  

1. All that really matters is what you did last (TS3/SS/Haze were all huge financial busts)
2. TS3 was too little, too late...everyone who cared was playing Halo 2 online
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 12:14:14 AM
Another bulletpoint in my anti-hd gaming agenda.  Whats the point of getting into this industry if one flop is going to kill your company?  I doubt if haze was any good things would have turned out differently.  Although if Haze was critically celebrated I could see them not having their contracts with LucasArts suspended.

Why the fuck would you have an anti-hd gaming agenda

Let me tell you about my anti-Blu-ray agenda...DVD for life

Seriously, dude, what the fuck?

Because gaming would only benefit from consoles launching at an affordable price, cheaper games and lower dev costs.  Gaming is going to remain niche until they can heavily promote new games at a 20-30 dollar pricetag.  The arms race over tech is very shortsighted.  Could you imagine how many more people couldve bought (insert popular game) if the dev costs didnt require them to charge $60 for a new copy?  
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: y2kev on December 19, 2008, 12:15:53 AM
Why is gaming being "niche" necessarily bad?

Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 12:17:26 AM
IF ONLY FREE RADICAL HAD RELEASED THEIR OBJECTIVELY TERRIBLE GAME ON WII THEY'D STILL BE ALIVE!

It would've failed regardless, but I doubt if it wasnt for the cost of adhering to hd standards they wouldve folded.

The above sentence probably contains bad grammar.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: y2kev on December 19, 2008, 12:20:04 AM
But UBISOFT paid for their shit game. The problem is that they suck and have sucked for 3 games now so no one wants them and their shit bomba IP.

Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 19, 2008, 12:22:00 AM
gaming has its mainstream console now with the wii

i will happily fling my arms around with my friends playing silly mainstream minigame collections, and i will happily play my niche real games on pc, 360, and on the rare occasion ps3
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 19, 2008, 12:24:00 AM
But UBISOFT paid for their shit game. The problem is that they suck and have sucked for 3 games now so no one wants them and their shit bomba IP.



what were the 3 games

i'm not up on what they have produced other than the timesplitters stuff, and as i said i enjoyed the silliness of the last timesplitters
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 12:25:11 AM
Why is gaming being "niche" necessarily bad?



Don't have a good retort for that one.

Simple but effective victory as usual sir.

But when I hear publisher's aspirations for games as entertainment to be accepted on the same footing as books/movies/tv/music in terms of sheer numbers, its obvious what could be done to lower the barriers to mainstream acceptance.  I understand game revenues are reported to be outpacing the other medias, but it could be so much more.  I remember belinski having similar sentiments.

It wouldve been ingenious if Miyamoto and crew wouldve followed through on their original plan to sell the wii at ~100 dollars.  I guess it worked out for them though, although you can see the interest waning in japan.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: y2kev on December 19, 2008, 12:29:16 AM
But UBISOFT paid for their shit game. The problem is that they suck and have sucked for 3 games now so no one wants them and their shit bomba IP.



what were the 3 games

i'm not up on what they have produced other than the timesplitters stuff, and as i said i enjoyed the silliness of the last timesplitters

TS3 sold decently, did not set the world on fire (debuted on all 3 consoles at 65k)
Second Sight SUPER BOMBA
Haze bomba

They tried pushing TS4, no one was interested. FR is gone now.

It's sad, but this isn't really a "betting on the wrong horse" thing.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 12:30:42 AM
gaming has its mainstream console now with the wii

i will happily fling my arms around with my friends playing silly mainstream minigame collections, and i will happily play my niche real games on pc, 360, and on the rare occasion ps3

I dunno, its definitely going to be the most successful console of all time, but its really just the step in the right direction.  I'm sure there would be alot more people trying boom blox if the system was 100-150 dollars and games had a pricetag of 20-30.
Anecdotaly, the people I know with a wii buy it for their kids.  Alot of others are interested but consider it too much money.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Rman on December 19, 2008, 12:32:20 AM
Sad to hear.  Best of luck to those who worked there.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 19, 2008, 12:35:27 AM
But UBISOFT paid for their shit game. The problem is that they suck and have sucked for 3 games now so no one wants them and their shit bomba IP.



Bingo. they had their chance; plenty of development time, a strong publisher that is known to be alright with less than straightforward ideas, and really, a pretty good concept for a game. According to nearly every source, they fucked up, and not just in one way either.

Although I'll say this: I don't think the game would have fared as horribly as it did, with critics, hadn't it been for the cocky attitude of certain project figureheads. Big talk is fine, if the product can support it. And I think the game got punished pretty harshly for it.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 19, 2008, 12:37:55 AM
wait, i did play haze, i rented it (it sucked, sent it back the next day)

i didn't even pay attention to who made it  :lol
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: cool breeze on December 19, 2008, 12:39:02 AM
Second Sight was a good game, but I remember the crazyiness back then when people would say it was better than Psi-ops.  So crazy.

Although Psi-ops became poop near the end.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: duckman2000 on December 19, 2008, 12:41:27 AM
What I don't get is why they felt that they needed to move away from the cartoony/stylized look of TS in order to tell a more serious story (I know, that eventually felt flat too, but the concept was promising). I thought that (some of) the character designs in the TS games were genuinely and uniquely cool, and I think some middle ground between that and a "realistic" look would have added to a darkly satirical theme.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: HyperZoneWasAwesome on December 19, 2008, 12:57:20 AM
Second Sight was awesome.  I bought my copy for 20 bucks the summer after it came out.  I suppose I'm part of the problem.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 01:06:38 AM
Because gaming would only benefit from consoles launching at an affordable price, cheaper games and lower dev costs.  Gaming is going to remain niche until they can heavily promote new games at a 20-30 dollar pricetag.  The arms race over tech is very shortsighted.  Could you imagine how many more people couldve bought (insert popular game) if the dev costs didnt require them to charge $60 for a new copy?  

It's like you started gaming 3 years ago.  Where in the hell do I start?!?

* Game consoles have always launched at higher prices that were quickly lowered to more "affordable" prices, where most of the sales take place.  The PS2 launched at $299, but the vast majority of its sales came at $199 and below.  The problem this generation is that Microsoft was in such a hurry to make a splash that they launched before they were ready, which made Sony launch a year early.  If they had launched when they probably should have, the 360 would've been $300-350, and the PS3 would've been $399, which are much more reasonable prices for what you're getting.  With that said, I'm not sure why you're focused on what happened 2-3 years ago because all that matters is the here and now, and depending on the SKU, the 360 is either $50 cheaper or $50 more than the Wii (and it even comes with two full games).  Speaking of being affordable, why in the hell is the Wii still $250?  Oh yeah, it's because Nintendo can.  They're sure as hell not interested in making their system any more affordable.

* Gaming hasn't been niche since the NES launched and have you not paying attention the last few generations?  The Wii is just following the same path as the PS2 (though it's getting there more quickly).  The majority of households in this country have some kind of gaming system.  How is that niche, again?

* We've been in an arms race since console gaming started.  That's how technology works.  It should always improve.  You might argue that it advanced too fast before the market was ready, but with the continued proliferation of HDTVs, it's ridiculous to argue that Sony and Microsoft were wrong to make systems that take advantage of what is quickly becoming THE standard, especially among the type of consumers that typically spend the most money on this hobby.

* You act like $60 is a new thing and is really THAT much different from $50.  How quickly we forget that most mid-to-late SNES and all N64 games were $60 or more.  Adjusted for inflation, that $60 N64 game is nearly $80 today.  The move to $60 was long overdue.  And don't forget that some of the most popular Wii games cost $80-100 (or more for the full band bundles).

* You act like development costs haven't been skyrocketing every generation.  It's not a new trend.  Companies just have to be smarter with how and where they spend their money and what type of game they make.  If you spend millions on a sub-par shooter that doesn't compete with Halo 3, then I don't feel sorry for you.  You knew what you were going up against.  Instead, spend less and/or go after a specific genre or niche.  Be smart.  And despite some success stories like Carnival Games, most of the Wii games that you want to play still have moderately high budgets.  You're kidding yourself if you think that the core Nintendo games and big-name 3rd party games don't also have high budgets.

Why are you putting a premium on how others enjoy this generation?  Why don't you just worry about your own enjoyment?  This new trend of Nintendo fans thriving on the fact that their grandma can play Wii Sports is absolutely baffling to me.  Your own enjoyment should trump Nintendo's agenda.  You never cared about your grandma before, so don't act like you do now just because Nintendo wants you to.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: y2kev on December 19, 2008, 01:10:16 AM
You know, I don't necessarily agree about game prices. Sony came onto the scene with like 40 dollar games. Saying something like "the move to 60 was long overdue" strikes me as remarkably anti-consumer. Why can't MC just turn around and say, "The end of the arms race was long overdue"?
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 01:16:24 AM
Because gaming would only benefit from consoles launching at an affordable price, cheaper games and lower dev costs.  Gaming is going to remain niche until they can heavily promote new games at a 20-30 dollar pricetag.  The arms race over tech is very shortsighted.  Could you imagine how many more people couldve bought (insert popular game) if the dev costs didnt require them to charge $60 for a new copy?  

It's like you started gaming 3 years ago.  Where in the hell do I start?!?

* Game consoles have always launched at higher prices that were quickly lowered to more "affordable" prices, where most of the sales take place.  The PS2 launched at $299, but the vast majority of its sales came at $199 and below.  The problem this generation is that Microsoft was in such a hurry to make a splash that they launched before they were ready, which made Sony launch a year early.  If they had launched when they probably should have, the 360 would've been $300-350, and the PS3 would've been $399, which are much more reasonable prices for what you're getting.  With that said, I'm not sure why you're focused on what happened 2-3 years ago because all that matters is the here and now, and depending on the SKU, the 360 is either $50 cheaper or $50 more than the Wii (and it even comes with two full games).  Speaking of being affordable, why in the hell is the Wii still $250?  Oh yeah, it's because Nintendo can.  They're sure as hell not interested in making their system any more affordable.

* Gaming hasn't been niche since the NES launched and have you not paying attention the last few generations?  The Wii is just following the same path as the PS2 (though it's getting there more quickly).  The majority of households in this country have some kind of gaming system.  How is that niche, again?

* We've been in an arms race since console gaming started.  That's how technology works.  It should always improve.  You might argue that it advanced too fast before the market was ready, but with the continued proliferation of HDTVs, it's ridiculous to argue that Sony and Microsoft were wrong to make systems that take advantage of what is quickly becoming THE standard, especially among the type of consumers that typically spend the most money on this hobby.

* You act like $60 is a new thing and is really THAT much different from $50.  How quickly we forget that most mid-to-late SNES and all N64 games were $60 or more.  Adjusted for inflation, that $60 N64 game is nearly $80 today.  The move to $60 was long overdue.  And don't forget that some of the most popular Wii games cost $80-100 (or more for the full band bundles).

* You act like development costs haven't been skyrocketing every generation.  It's not a new trend.  Companies just have to be smarter with how and where they spend their money and what type of game they make.  If you spend millions on a sub-par shooter that doesn't compete with Halo 3, then I don't feel sorry for you.  You knew what you were going up against.  Instead, spend less and/or go after a specific genre or niche.  Be smart.  And despite some success stories like Carnival Games, most of the Wii games that you want to play still have moderately high budgets.  You're kidding yourself if you think that the core Nintendo games and big-name 3rd party games don't also have high budgets.

Why are you putting a premium on how others enjoy this generation?  Why don't you just worry about your own enjoyment?  This new trend of Nintendo fans thriving on the fact that their grandma can play Wii Sports is absolutely baffling to me.  Your own enjoyment should trump Nintendo's agenda.  You never cared about your grandma before, so don't act like you do now just because Nintendo wants you to.

You're assuming alot of what I think and know.  Please dont put words in my mouth. And yes, gaming is niche.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 01:24:08 AM
You know, I don't necessarily agree about game prices. Sony came onto the scene with like 40 dollar games. Saying something like "the move to 60 was long overdue" strikes me as remarkably anti-consumer. Why can't MC just turn around and say, "The end of the arms race was long overdue"?

Technological advancement is welcome, but I think an sd 360 and games wouldve been more wise.  If HD standards were moved back another gen the transition would've been easier on these smaller dev houses.  Doing it in 2005 was just premature, it couldve waited for the penetration to go up.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 01:26:08 AM
You know, I don't necessarily agree about game prices. Sony came onto the scene with like 40 dollar games. Saying something like "the move to 60 was long overdue" strikes me as remarkably anti-consumer. Why can't MC just turn around and say, "The end of the arms race was long overdue"?

Unless I'm mis-remembering, $40 games didn't hit until midway into the PSOne's lifecycle, and even then, it was only first party games at first.  You really, really can't ignore inflation.  EVERYTHING got more expensive, but games stayed fairly flat.  That $40 game in 1997 is $53 today.  Combine that with much larger development teams and (generally) bigger, better, and more polished games, and you can see why they bumped it up to $60.

I'm not necessarily happy about it, but I understand it.  I was saying it was long overdue as a business move.  As a consumer, I have more money than I did in 1997 AND I have many more avenues in which to try games without buying (demos, Gamefly, etc.), so the move doesn't bother me.  After all, gaming still generally has more bang for the buck than pretty much any other form of entertainment.

Everyone wants everything to be cheaper, but sometimes you just have to be realistic.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 19, 2008, 01:27:58 AM
Gaming is hardly niche.  It hasn't been for nearly 20 years or if you want to talk about really being mainstream, with the PlayStation, then it hasn't been for a decade now.  It's pretty common.

I agree that I still don't get why Nintendo fans are loving that old people and soccer moms are buying the Wii in droves.  It isn't like we're seeing better software coming from this; no, we're seeing an increase of shovelware and port ups because the bar has been set so low for what sells that there is no point to push the envelope when Ubi Dogz will sell 300,000 copies.  At least with previous consoles, we'd see an influx of high quality games that people would buy, especially PlayStation 2.  The best title out for Wii right now, Super Mario Galaxy, was going to be made, regardless of how many middle aged women bought the Wii.

Nothing really to get excited about unless mini game compilations are your bag.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 19, 2008, 01:32:15 AM
You know, I don't necessarily agree about game prices. Sony came onto the scene with like 40 dollar games. Saying something like "the move to 60 was long overdue" strikes me as remarkably anti-consumer. Why can't MC just turn around and say, "The end of the arms race was long overdue"?

Unless I'm mis-remembering, $40 games didn't hit until midway into the PSOne's lifecycle, and even then, it was only first party games at first.  You really, really can't ignore inflation.  EVERYTHING got more expensive, but games stayed fairly flat.  That $40 game in 1997 is $53 today.  Combine that with much larger development teams and (generally) bigger, better, and more polished games, and you can see why they bumped it up to $60.

I'm not necessarily happy about it, but I understand it.  I was saying it was long overdue as a business move.  As a consumer, I have more money than I did in 1997 AND I have many more avenues in which to try games without buying (demos, Gamefly, etc.), so the move doesn't bother me.  After all, gaming still generally has more bang for the buck than pretty much any other form of entertainment.

Everyone wants everything to be cheaper, but sometimes you just have to be realistic.

I kind of agree but there were still some large budget heavy hitters on the PS1.  Wasn't FF7's budget $40 million?  Maybe I was off by a decimal place or something.  I don't know.

I also agree that is budgets are going to increase, then its expected to see a price increase.  Not only that but you got all the costs of marketing, transportation, retailer's cut, etc.  Its the games that have no reason to be more expensive (like the Square Enix premium on the DS) that bother me.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 01:34:36 AM
You're assuming alot of what I think and know.  Please dont put words in my mouth. And yes, gaming is niche.

I can only infer what you know from what you post.  And no, gaming is not fucking niche.  That is a ridiculous statement to make without qualification.  Almost every single person in the country plays PC/console/mobile/handheld games of some sort.  Even taking away those qualifiers and limiting the discussion to consoles, 41% of households had consoles in March 2007, and with the Wii's success, that number is probably closer to 45% now.

Please explain to a simpleton like me how something that is enjoyed by nearly half the people in the country in some capacity is niche.  It seems like you equate "gaming" to "people who like to shoot each other online every night" or some other odd qualifier.  However, it doesn't work like that.

Here is the Nielsen study:
http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/nmr_static/docs/Nielsen_Report_State_Console_03507.pdf (http://www.nielsenmedia.com/nc/nmr_static/docs/Nielsen_Report_State_Console_03507.pdf)

Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: demi on December 19, 2008, 01:37:37 AM
Gaming is niche to old people scared to upgrade their technology

Reminds me of Wii owners
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 01:39:44 AM
U mad?
I never said you were a "simpleton"
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 01:40:00 AM
I kind of agree but there were still some large budget heavy hitters on the PS1.  Wasn't FF7's budget $40 million?  Maybe I was off by a decimal place or something.  I don't know.

I also agree that is budgets are going to increase, then its expected to see a price increase.  Not only that but you got all the costs of marketing, transportation, retailer's cut, etc.  Its the games that have no reason to be more expensive (like the Square Enix premium on the DS) that bother me.

I don't know why, but this also reminded me of a few points that I forgot to mention regarding game pricing:

1. There should be more tiers.  Most games aren't worth full price and should be priced accordingly.  More companies would succeed in this industry if they understood this.

2. In addition to games getting more expensive, we're also lucky enough to also have access to smaller $5-15 games through download services, many of which offer hours and hours of replay.  I can't even tell you how much time I spent playing Puzzle Quest, Carcossonne, Ticket to Ride, UNO, and plenty of other XBLA games.

We've got the lower end of the pricing tiers right, but we just need to get that middle tier of $20-40 games right.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: BobFromPikeCreek on December 19, 2008, 01:43:13 AM
Anti-hd gaming agenda? On evilbore?
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 01:43:37 AM
U mad?
I never said you were a "simpleton"

:D

In my head, I was thinking about a recent episode of The Office where Michael first asks Oscar to explain something to him like he's a 7-year-old, and after still not getting it, asks Oscar to explain it to him like he's a 5-year-old.  Of course, the joke works better if I actually make it in the first place.

I was basically asking you to explain it to me as quickly and simply as possible.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 01:58:51 AM
Do you think people whose main gaming time is playing solitaire when the should be working or snake on their cell would spend money on standalone games?
If no, would it be more likely if games were priced more inline with dvds, books, and cds?

and now to actually read the nielsen link!

edit: I cant read a .pdf file now....
:[

edit 2: Regarding the 40ish adoption rate number. How much of this userbase is active.  Does it consider multiple purchases for replacing hardware and console revisions? As a for instance, the humongous ds ltd is misleading because its gone through 3 iterations.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 02:06:18 AM
Gaming is niche to old people scared to upgrade their technology

Reminds me of Wii owners

That shit is expensive. Us dirty and numerous poors wont be buying into hd for a few years.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: demi on December 19, 2008, 02:07:25 AM
I'm sure they will have developed shielding for the harmful rays those LCDs emit soon enough
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 03:07:12 AM
Do you think people whose main gaming time is playing solitaire when the should be working or snake on their cell would spend money on standalone games?
If no, would it be more likely if games were priced more inline with dvds, books, and cds?

and now to actually read the nielsen link!

edit: I cant read a .pdf file now....
:[

edit 2: Regarding the 40ish adoption rate number. How much of this userbase is active.  Does it consider multiple purchases for replacing hardware and console revisions? As a for instance, the humongous ds ltd is misleading because its gone through 3 iterations.

Those type of people buy mobile games and casual computer games all the time.

To answer your questions, I'm sure that some of those consoles aren't being used, but multiple purchases per household only supports my argument, so I'm not sure why you brought that point up.

However, it doesn't change the argument that gaming isn't just for "a specialized market" (this is the definition that we're using here).  Both gaming and console gaming are extremely broad markets that span all demographics.

Quote
That shit is expensive. Us dirty and numerous poors wont be buying into hd for a few years.

Yep, your SD console is so much cheaper than my HD console.  SO much.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: brawndolicious on December 19, 2008, 04:17:23 AM
I completely agree with the "tiers" for pricing idea.  I put about 85 hours into EDF2017 but I just can't justify it for $20 more.  Even though it makes sense to base the price of the game on how much depth and content there is, no publisher is going to take a step like that because they fear that it could backfire a lot.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 04:17:38 AM
A good size 1080p tv to use with said hd console is 2000ish.  I was referring to that.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2008, 04:19:28 AM
.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Phoenix Dark on December 19, 2008, 04:38:07 AM
IF ONLY FREE RADICAL HAD RELEASED THEIR OBJECTIVELY TERRIBLE GAME ON WII THEY'D STILL BE ALIVE!

red steel is still keeping ubisoft in the black. smh free radical, smh
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: demi on December 19, 2008, 04:46:31 AM
My 1080p cost me 1300 - Not sure if 37" is considered a good size though, to a Wii owner
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 19, 2008, 08:03:38 AM
while i wouldn't call hdtv affordable in comparison to sdtv, it certainly is manageable within a budget depending on your expectations

you can find 32" hdtvs for less than $400 now if you shop around, and i bought my 37" for $600

to clarify, i was thinking along the lines of this gen when i made my niche comment, as i think that the hd gen consoles are still kind of niche right now

but no, video gaming in general isn't niche, although i would hesitate to call it truly mainstream
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: chronovore on December 19, 2008, 08:12:02 AM
this fucking sucks.  It sounds like losing their deal with Lucasarts is what killed them dead.  They already put two years into Battlefront and Lucasarts just pulled the plug on them, WTF?  Not that I needed any, but this gives me another reason to hate on George Lucas.

You probably have your answer right there. Two years on an existing franchise/IP, from a team with proven specialization on FPS games, and they weren't close enough to shipping? Probably a very troubled project, though whether the trouble was mostly LA or mostly FR, or communication problems between the two, we'll never know.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: AdmiralViscen on December 19, 2008, 09:23:20 AM
A good size 1080p tv to use with said hd console is 2000ish.  I was referring to that.

Are you distinguished mentally-challenged, you can get a good size 720p LCD for $400-500 with these holiday sales.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: dammitmattt on December 19, 2008, 09:53:20 AM
My 1080p cost me 1300 - Not sure if 37" is considered a good size though, to a Wii owner

You don't want it much bigger than that if you're a Wii owner.  Out of my three HDTVs, it only looks decent on the 32".  Some games are absolutely hideous on my 55" from where I sit.

EmCeeGrammar,

It's truly awesome that you feel like you have to get a top-of-the-line set before you upgrade.  You do know that the Wal-Mart special would be a huge updgrade from your SDTV, and if you want to buy from most electronics retailers you'll be able to get no interest financing for 6-12 months.

Your rhetoric is almost as awesomely misinformed as idiots who think you need $2000+ to buy a gaming PC.  How can you be so out of touch?
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 19, 2008, 10:51:06 AM
Nintendo fans love to be told lies and perpetuate those lies.

When the N64 was out and nobody was making games for it, Nintendo fans were absolutely convinced that developers were forced to be tight lipped under heavy NDAs that would get them thrown into Siberian gulags if they were to speak up.  Turns out, the games were never there in the first place.

When Game Cube came out, Nintendo fans were adamant that online play is useless and brings nothing to the table of gaming.  When Crystal Chronicles was announced, Nintendo fans assumed that SE jumped ship to Nintendo altogether and would port FFXII to the GameCube.  Such speculation grew so rampant that talking about it would get you banned at forums.  Surprise, surprise, people actually did like online play, FFCC was the only GC title released by SE and Nintendo's online alternative, Pacman on the GBA, failed miserably.

The HDTV bullshit excuses is just in the same vein.  Nintards are desperate to justify why Nintendo is releasing 2001 technology for $250.  HDTV is nowhere near $2000 unless you get huge screen 1080p TVs and let's be honest, the Wii looks like ass on a large TV (I have a 42" HDTV and seen the ugliness first hand), so I don't get why a Nintendo fan would invest money in a huge HDTV set up.  The HDTV excuse looks to be the new "Tight lipped NDA" of the Wii generation.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Purple Filth on December 19, 2008, 01:02:36 PM
Nintendo fans love to be told lies and perpetuate those lies.

When the N64 was out and nobody was making games for it, Nintendo fans were absolutely convinced that developers were forced to be tight lipped under heavy NDAs that would get them thrown into Siberian gulags if they were to speak up.  Turns out, the games were never there in the first place.


i never really paid attention to the n64 era but if true then :lol


 

Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 19, 2008, 01:09:10 PM
A good size 1080p tv to use with said hd console is 2000ish.  I was referring to that.
My 50" 720p Samsung Plasma only cost $800

spoiler (click to show/hide)
$350 of which was financed by selling my Wii and accessories/games
[close]

HD Gaman :bow2
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 19, 2008, 01:14:47 PM
My roommate got his 42" 1080p Bravia for $800.

Nintendo fans love to be told lies and perpetuate those lies.

When the N64 was out and nobody was making games for it, Nintendo fans were absolutely convinced that developers were forced to be tight lipped under heavy NDAs that would get them thrown into Siberian gulags if they were to speak up.  Turns out, the games were never there in the first place.


i never really paid attention to the n64 era but if true then :lol

It's true.  The same argument I think applied for some era of the GameCube.  In fact, I think it was used until the Nintendo DS took off in 2005.
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Kestastrophe on February 04, 2009, 08:32:41 AM
Looks like Crytek may have snatched up Free Radical. That could lead to some pretty cool possibilities

http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57079 (http://www.shacknews.com/onearticle.x/57079)
Title: Re: Looks like Free Radical is dead
Post by: Purple Filth on February 04, 2009, 08:47:16 AM
posted this too, but this is the better thread  :lol

so could they finally have a console oriented team now for their engine and/or have a their feet in the UK?

Will TS4 rise from its grave?


Very interesting