THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 06:47:11 PM

Title: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 06:47:11 PM: http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/archives/514

from the website:
Steve Ditko is, of course, best known for being the co-creator and original artist of Spider-Man. What most people don’t know, however (except serious comic-book nerds like Brakhage and me), is that in the early 1970s he went on a tear and produced a series of insane Objectivist independent comics/rants that are unlike any comics produced then or now.

The series of self-published comics featured an array of forgettable one-shot superheroes and one continuing series with his favorite character, Mr. A, loosely based on The Question, a superhero he had worked on for Charlton Comics a few years earlier. Mr. A was the Randian hero moved to a superhero setting; like Howard Roark in The Fountainhead, he was the uncompromising perfect man, set upon by the cowardly, mediocrity-loving elites, including a newspaper publisher (J. Jonah Jameson in Spider-Man was also right out of Rand; at one point in the early series he admitted he hated Spider-Man because he made him seem ordinary by comparison — the mediocre dragging down the perfect). Alan Moore would later base the character of Rorschach in his series Watchmen on The Question/Mr. A; Moore lacked the political empathy and understanding, however, to truly parody someone whose beliefs were so far from his own, and Rorschach became simply a fascist psychotic, albeit a memorable and oddly charismatic one.

My favorite of these, though, was Avenging World. Not a superhero comic, or indeed even really a narrative comic at all, it was more of a diagrammatic tract outlining all the movements he hated (Christianity, Communism, welfare, post-modernism, equivocation) and explaining what was wrong with the world. This style was perfect for Ditko; while his lecturing diatribes would often sound ridiculous in the mouth of Mr. A (who would frequently be seen saying something like “Why did you deny what truth you did know as true?… How did you expect your dishonesty to lead to an honest gain… a worthy end?” while pummeling a miscreant), they worked very well in the context of his more abstract, tract-like diagrams.

His art, too worked better in this format. When he needed to draw a club representing coercion, he drew a club; I submit to you that there isn’t an artist in the comic-book world that could draw a more evil club than Ditko. Not only is it twisted and knobbing in a menacing fashion, it literally is oozing evil. This is the most hideous, scary, abstract-concept–representing club you will ever see.

I picked a bunch of his comics up because I’m generally a fan of bizarre propaganda and ramblings, and from what I knew of this I was sure I find it terribly amusing. And I did, but…

Uh, heh, well.. (cough, cough)… I’m a bit embarrassed to admit this, but when I read Avenging World, I realized that I pretty much agreed with what he had to say (I probably would have made this discovery had I ever read any Ayn Rand, but I never had the attention span for that). I recognized the lunacy behind it, and yet… I dunno, I just couldnt find much to argue with. Quibble, yes. But since everyone knows Ditko is just this right-wing lunatic, what does that make me? (Don’t answer that.) Oh well. I hope we can still be friends.

In honor of Ditko’s 80th birthday last Friday, here’s the long-out-of-print Avenging World; take your pick of PDF or Comic Book Archive format.

http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/avenging-world.cbz
http://www.dinosaurgardens.com/wp-content/uploads/2007/11/avenging-world.pdf
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: TVC15 on March 26, 2009, 06:52:22 PM: Eric P = New FOC confirmed
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: BobbyRobby on March 26, 2009, 06:54:10 PM: there's a whole book on this that recently came out. it's lying around and i have yet to read all of it, but what i've read is extremely interesting. though i don't agree with rand on a lot of things, it's nice to see superheroes with really strong principles, good or bad. because realistically, if someone was going to take the leap into dressing up and being a vigilante, they'd probably have pretty radical ideologies.

though i'm glad he got out of spider-man before he could make him uncharitable and completely rand-like.

edit: btw, thanks for the comic dl
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Diunx on March 26, 2009, 06:55:08 PM: Did you posted this before? I had a huge feeling of deja vu while reading this.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 06:55:17 PM: Quote from: TVC 15 on March 26, 2009, 06:52:22 PM
Eric P = New FOC confirmed

so tragically true
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on March 26, 2009, 06:57:31 PM: I actually first learned about this when I was reading up on the Watchmen movie - an interview with Moore mentioned that in the UK, Rorschach is considered more of a Mr. A analogue than a Question analogue, and from there I went into "well, who's Mr. A?" and OBJECTIVISM HO!¹

spoiler (click to show/hide)
1. a.k.a. Ayn Rand.
[close]

Also, Mr. A looks like Q from Street Fighter III, like exactly.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 06:58:43 PM: Quote from: Diunx on March 26, 2009, 06:55:08 PM
Did you posted this before? I had a huge feeling of deja vu while reading this.

the link is from 2007, so it may have been posted already
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 07:00:19 PM: Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on March 26, 2009, 06:57:31 PM
I actually first learned about this when I was reading up on the Watchmen movie - an interview with Moore mentioned that in the UK, Rorschach is considered more of a Mr. A analogue than a Question analogue, and from there I went into "well, who's Mr. A?" and OBJECTIVISM HO!¹

spoiler (click to show/hide)
1. a.k.a. Ayn Rand.
[close]

Also, Mr. A looks like Q from Street Fighter III, like exactly.

your Portuguese friend should hunt down Johnathan Ross's In Search Of Steve Ditko

http://www.bbc.co.uk/bbcfour/comicsbritannia/ross-ditko.shtml
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on March 26, 2009, 07:02:22 PM: (http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Witzend_MrA_ByDitko.jpg) = (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2554206450_0d9496eda9.jpg)
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 07:02:58 PM: my god, it's full of stars
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on March 26, 2009, 07:08:25 PM: A is Q.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 07:12:12 PM: A is A.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 26, 2009, 07:12:42 PM: i just skimmed through that pdf and

uh

ooookkkaaaayyyy

it seems very needy and childlike in its desire for a simple, binary, uncomplicated world. i have no idea what the appeal is, myself! what got you so thrilled, senor?
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eel O'Brian on March 26, 2009, 07:14:35 PM: i like ditko's work quite a bit (especially his 1950s and very early 60s monster and scifi stuff), but those mr. a comics are awful
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on March 26, 2009, 07:15:06 PM: Quote from: Professor Prole on March 26, 2009, 07:12:42 PM
it seems very needy and childlike in its desire for a simple, binary, uncomplicated world. i have no idea what the appeal is, myself! what got you so thrilled, senor?

I think you mean unary!

A is A.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eric P on March 26, 2009, 07:15:46 PM: Quote from: Professor Prole on March 26, 2009, 07:12:42 PM
i just skimmed through that pdf and

uh

ooookkkaaaayyyy

it seems very needy and childlike in its desire for a simple, binary, uncomplicated world. i have no idea what the appeal is, myself! what got you so thrilled, senor?

oh, i didn't write any of the above, but since it was kind of long i didn't use the quote box because it can be kind of a pain to read a lot of text after it's been run through that thing.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 26, 2009, 07:16:07 PM: i never ever trust a person who yells at me that the world is simple and clearcut

usually they have a bible, but this time it seems they have a hamfisted sense of parody and a square-jawed dude in tights
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eel O'Brian on March 26, 2009, 07:16:38 PM: let me dig you up some cool ditko stuff lest you be left with mr. a as your sole ditko experience
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 26, 2009, 07:17:17 PM: yes, plz
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eel O'Brian on March 26, 2009, 07:19:13 PM: do you like giant monsters or weirdo scifi
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: TVC15 on March 26, 2009, 07:19:30 PM: BOTH!
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Van Cruncheon on March 26, 2009, 07:19:41 PM: all of the above
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eel O'Brian on March 26, 2009, 07:21:01 PM: i will dig some up for you and send you a cd with some .cbz files of stuff
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on March 26, 2009, 07:31:00 PM: POP QUIZ

Q: Name a better 60s comic artist than Jim Steranko.

A:
spoiler (click to show/hide)
WRONG

(http://i44.tinypic.com/rkrhv7.jpg)

[close]
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Eel O'Brian on March 26, 2009, 07:52:32 PM: steranko's history of comics is awesome

here is a steve ditko story from strange tales #67, 1959

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/strange_tales_v1_067_03.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/strange_tales_v1_067_04.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/strange_tales_v1_067_05.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/strange_tales_v1_067_06.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/strange_tales_v1_067_07.jpg)

(http://i26.photobucket.com/albums/c121/KParrott/strange_tales_v1_067_08.jpg)
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on March 26, 2009, 08:01:43 PM: Quote from: Synthesizer Patel on March 26, 2009, 07:02:22 PM
(http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/2/29/Witzend_MrA_ByDitko.jpg) = (http://farm4.static.flickr.com/3095/2554206450_0d9496eda9.jpg)

MAME can now run 3rd Strike?
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Dickie Dee on March 26, 2009, 08:10:50 PM: Ditko's artwork was way better when he was knocking out like 8 books a month instead obessively trying to inject every panel with maximum detail lest he leave out any TRUTH.

What a fucking mess some of that shit is.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: bork on March 26, 2009, 08:39:14 PM: MAME's been able to run 3rd Strike for a while. Last time I tried it, it was kinda choppy. There's a PC-only emulator that runs CPS3 stuff perfectly, just use that.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on March 26, 2009, 08:43:25 PM: Quote from: the lyte edge on March 26, 2009, 08:39:14 PM
MAME's been able to run 3rd Strike for a while. Last time I tried it, it was kinda choppy. There's a PC-only emulator that runs CPS3 stuff perfectly, just use that.

Didn't know CPS3 emulation was possible now. Thanks.

Doubt it would run on my crappy ass laptop though.
Title: Re: Steve Ditko Objectivist Rant in Comic Form!
Post by: Diunx on March 27, 2009, 12:07:20 AM: The cps3 emulator runs perfectly in my 2002 pc, it shouldn't have any problem running in your laptop.