THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: WrikaWrek on April 05, 2009, 12:41:56 PM

Title: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 05, 2009, 12:41:56 PM
How it combines the lightning and special effects with the destruction, to bring the whole war feel is really awesome. Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2, the weakest element are definitely the character models.

However, for a game that spent 4 years in development, the scripting, story, set pieces, and overall creativity of the challenge is strikingly average.

I wish this engine could be licensed, looks better than Cryshit on consoles.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Eel O'Brian on April 05, 2009, 12:44:51 PM
did you play modern warfare?

then you have probably already played modern warfare 2
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: The Fake Shemp on April 05, 2009, 12:49:02 PM
CoD > KZ2
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: MCD on April 05, 2009, 12:55:41 PM
Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2
:rofl

just why do you think IW gives a shit?
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Beezy on April 05, 2009, 01:02:40 PM
Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2
:rofl

just why do you think IW gives a shit?
Exactly. Modern Warfare 2 will sell millions just like the first did as long as IW makes the online multiplayer on par or better than their last game.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 05, 2009, 01:03:20 PM
the only thing nice graphically about CoD4 and WaW is the frame rate.  The games don't really look great past the smoothness of it all.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: TakingBackSunday on April 05, 2009, 01:05:35 PM
I played the Killzone 2 demo yesterday, and holy fuck it looked amazing, but that's as far as it went.  Game was clunky as a motherfucker.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 05, 2009, 01:24:51 PM
the only thing nice graphically about CoD4 and WaW is the frame rate.  The games don't really look great past the smoothness of it all.
Disagree.  I much prefer what they did with Killzone 2.  If they had been able to maintain a rock solid 60 fps on consoles, that would have been great, but they didn't.  There were tons of drops.  KZ2, on the other hand, combined a very solid 30 fps with fantastic motion blur to create a much more appealing look in motion.  60 fps is only good if you can hold it 95% of the time.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 01:50:10 PM
I don't mind the visuals of COD4, but I really hope they rework the A.I. and implement a hit response system. I don't want it to be too much like KZ2, but there are some things that are in dire need of being replaced and updated.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: TakingBackSunday on April 05, 2009, 02:15:08 PM
Game was clunky as a motherfucker.
ya. what a painful 45 seconds that demo was  :-\

No shit.  The cover system was kind of cool, but the aiming was horrendous, and no messing around with the sensitivity helped it.  And that jump, wtf.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 02:16:13 PM
Should be more gun-on-a-stick and magnetic reticles, amirite?  :violin
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Don Flamenco on April 05, 2009, 02:22:37 PM
How it combines the lightning and special effects with the destruction, to bring the whole war feel is really awesome. Infinity Ward has quite a challenge in its hands now, to meet the benchmark set by Kz2, the weakest element are definitely the character models.

However, for a game that spent 4 years in development, the scripting, story, set pieces, and overall creativity of the challenge is strikingly average.

I wish this engine could be licensed, looks better than Cryshit on consoles.
LOLNOLOLNOLOLNOLOLNOLOLNO


Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 05, 2009, 02:22:45 PM
the only thing nice graphically about CoD4 and WaW is the frame rate.  The games don't really look great past the smoothness of it all.
Disagree.  I much prefer what they did with Killzone 2.  If they had been able to maintain a rock solid 60 fps on consoles, that would have been great, but they didn't.  There were tons of drops.  KZ2, on the other hand, combined a very solid 30 fps with fantastic motion blur to create a much more appealing look in motion.  60 fps is only good if you can hold it 95% of the time.

actually, you're kind of agreeing with me.  I'm saying the only nice thing about CoD4s graphics was the smooth frame rate.  Killzone 2 looks way better.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Beezy on April 05, 2009, 02:30:17 PM
No, dark is saying that CoD4 didn't have a smooth frame rate either because it couldn't "maintain a rock solid 60 fps".
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 05, 2009, 02:47:14 PM
my mistake.  Though, I never really noticed the drops in multiplayer.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: fistfulofmetal on April 05, 2009, 03:03:25 PM
COD4 looks really great on the PC. It looks like butt on consoles though.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 03:07:51 PM
COD4 looks really great on the PC. It looks like butt on consoles though.

Eh, it really doesn't look that much better. There's a strict limitation on how good the game can look, and the ceiling isn't that much higher than what you find in the console versions.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 05, 2009, 03:12:02 PM
I played CoD4 on 360 and PC and it isn't a huge leap.  If you want a big difference in graphical quality, play Far Cry 2.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Beezy on April 05, 2009, 03:13:12 PM
my mistake.  Though, I never really noticed the drops in multiplayer.
me either
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Don Flamenco on April 05, 2009, 06:55:13 PM
I only hit a few drops in single player at times that didn't matter.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 07:01:14 PM
From what I've played of the 360 version, the game looks weird. There's a lot of bloom, and the framerate seems to be all over the place. Although I'm not sure if the latter is because of the weird bloom.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Don Flamenco on April 05, 2009, 07:10:42 PM
From what I've played of the 360 version, the game looks weird. There's a lot of bloom, and the framerate seems to be all over the place. Although I'm not sure if the latter is because of the weird bloom.

cod4?   

i don't remember much bloom in that.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: pilonv1 on April 05, 2009, 08:24:50 PM
http://cmpmedia.vo.llnwd.net/o1/vault/gdc09/slides/GDC2009-vdLeeuw-KZ2SPUsCaseStudy.pdf - warning it's 57mb

Summarised from another forum.

Quote
The post processing effects use a quarter res sample of the framebuffer which is transferred to the SPUs.

So motion blurring and depth of field blurring use a lower res source.

Not that matters - it still looks incredible.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: brawndolicious on April 05, 2009, 08:34:04 PM
Lost Planet did something similar.  The particle effects (which were obviously a huge part of that game's graphics) were rendered at 1/4 the resolution since your eyes can't detect the drop in detail for animated smoke, fire, etc effects.  It worked really well in that game and I'm guessing also in KZ2 so hopefully other developers use that method for particles and blurring.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 05, 2009, 08:34:47 PM
COD4 looks really great on the PC. It looks like butt on consoles though.
Err, no.  I can play CoD4 and 5 on my PC at 1080p with a rock solid 60 fps and, while it does look better, the difference is actually pretty minimal.  The framerate is a nice improvement, but everything else looks and feels roughly the same.

I played CoD4 on 360 and PC and it isn't a huge leap.  If you want a big difference in graphical quality, play Far Cry 2.
FC2 definitely benefits much more from high resolutions.  1080p FC2 with AA and AF cranked is a sight to behold on the PC in that the image quality is flawless.  They were even kind enough to include a framerate limiter so that I can maintain a rock solid 30 fps with the highest settings and really high AA and AF (it's tough to hold 60 fps at that resolution with max details).

Quote
I only hit a few drops in single player at times that didn't matter.
You may have only noticed that, but the framerate drops constantly.  The trick?  It mostly drops once the action picks up and, as a result, the average gamer doesn't notice it.  It really stands out to me, though.  It doesn't ruin the playability, but it does damage the presentation.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 05, 2009, 08:43:27 PM
Game sucks dick. Playing on hard mode, there's this thing in level 2 or 3, where i have to defend this position, and they have dudes coming in by trucks, and aircraft, and i kill like 30 guys, but they keep coming, and then the dudes in my team are dip shits and they are all down, i mean, what?

F this game. I'll get back to it next month.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 08:46:19 PM
From what I've played of the 360 version, the game looks weird. There's a lot of bloom, and the framerate seems to be all over the place. Although I'm not sure if the latter is because of the weird bloom.

cod4?   

i don't remember much bloom in that.

I don't remember hearing about it, so I was a bit surprised to see it. Generally, the game looks muddy, which was never the case with the PC or the PS3 versions. That's why I'm wondering if there is post processing switch or something. Although, the 360 controller is so shit for this particular game that I might not even bother with this version.

FC2 definitely benefits much more from high resolutions.  1080p FC2 with AA and AF cranked is a sight to behold on the PC in that the image quality is flawless.  They were even kind enough to include a framerate limiter so that I can maintain a rock solid 30 fps with the highest settings and really high AA and AF (it's tough to hold 60 fps at that resolution with max details).

Now if only there were PC versions of all upcoming games. I'm looking forward to MAG, hopefully it's every bit as awesome as it sounds, but I really wish it was a PC title instead.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 09:05:19 PM
There is no such encounter in the game. Sounds like it could be a greatly exaggerated and wrika-stupid description of the Visari Square bit, which was a weird and annoying sequence. I really don't think it was too bright of Guerrilla to have the characters echo my complaints.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 05, 2009, 09:06:59 PM
Quote
Game sucks dick. Playing on hard mode, there's this thing in level 2 or 3, where i have to defend this position, and they have dudes coming in by trucks, and aircraft, and i kill like 30 guys, but they keep coming, and then the dudes in my team are dip shits and they are all down, i mean, what?


just so we are clear, we are talking about COD or KZ2 here?
spoiler (click to show/hide)
  :-*  :-*  :-*
[close]

I see what you did there  :pimp

KZ2.

And yes it's the Visari Square Sequences. Which is exactly how i described it on an harder mode. Tons of guys coming in, you have the sniper up top, the higher caliber machine gun in the "bunker", you have like 4 team mates who aren't worth shit, and they all die, and then you are left alone fighting a bunch of Jin Ron assassins.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 09:10:17 PM
I played through it on Veteran, and while frustrating and poorly designed, it's nothing like you described it. There are far too many waves of enemies, to the point where it becomes a bit boring, but the waves themselves are minimal. The worst they bring in are heavies, and those are stupidly easy. Keeping one or two of your team mates alive helps. And I don't recall any waves being dropped in by air.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 05, 2009, 09:12:28 PM
Well maybe your memory ain't so sharp old man.

Waves of 20 guys, there's one of the waves that comes by a truck, and on of them has the dudes dropping in an aircraft, through the ropes.

I played that thing like 2 hours ago dude. And yes my team mates do drop like flies.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 09:17:06 PM
So keep them alive, then. It takes a second to revive them. I absolutely agree that it's a dodgy sequence, but it's not that hard. For one, keeping your team mates alive gives the Helghast someone else to shoot at while you dispose of the heavies and stray grunts. You can use the MG, but that's borderline cheating.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 05, 2009, 09:20:46 PM
Game sucks dick. Playing on hard mode, there's this thing in level 2 or 3, where i have to defend this position, and they have dudes coming in by trucks, and aircraft, and i kill like 30 guys, but they keep coming, and then the dudes in my team are dip shits and they are all down, i mean, what?

F this game. I'll get back to it next month.

Don't play it on hard mode.  Normal is tough enough at points >_<
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 05, 2009, 09:22:25 PM
So keep them alive, then. It takes a second to revive them. I absolutely agree that it's a dodgy sequence, but it's not that hard. For one, keeping your team mates alive gives the Helghast someone else to shoot at while you dispose of the heavies and stray grunts. You can use the MG, but that's borderline cheating.

Gonna be real with you and admit i've been pretty shit at games lately. Aside from Pro Evo, damn i still kick ass, even when i don't play it for like a year, goddamn. I'm the bruce lee of Pro Evo!
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 09:39:20 PM
Tsk. Technical shitness is simply an opportunity to prevail through tactics.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 05, 2009, 09:47:58 PM
That's probably why I liked COD4 MP as much as I did. Not that I'm very good at it (absolutely disastrous with the wrong controller, even), but any game that offers you a fighting chance if you're good at devising traps and predicting enemy movement is alright with me. I won't ever win a battle of quick aim, and having my equilibrium fucked with hasn't helped.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: drew on April 05, 2009, 10:35:35 PM
cod>kz2
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: rubber feathers on April 06, 2009, 12:19:08 AM
Wait, people are really saying CoD4 looks like crap?  It's not a looker in the MP, but most of the single player levels looked really good for a game in 2007.  It's not Crysis or Uncharted or Gears, but it looked great.  This (http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/796/796052/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare-20070613003856277.jpg) runs at a solid 60fps, and keep in mind this was released in June '07.  Of course its flaws are more apparent two years later, but it doesn't look mediocre at all or anything.

The framerate only dropped a few times in the SP, too, and it's literally rock solid in the MP.  If you're having framerate problems in multiplayer (at least on 360), your system is messed up.

It's not like KZ2 is perfect either, it has some framerate dips even at 30fps.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 12:23:12 AM
I think COD4 looks good enough, with some glaring flaws countered by various strengths. I think I'm honestly just past the ultra-super graphics bit these days. I haven't played a game in a long time that was prohibitively ugly, so I'm alright. There are other things they need to update, though.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 12:40:01 AM
I'd have to go back and see COD4 again, i remember it looking pretty good (?)

What were the glaring flaws , Duck?

Foliage is terrible, as are many of the ground and other textures. Lighting is good at some points, but terrible at others. No real reaction when shooting enemies, instead going for canned death animation, which goes for a lot of the effects in the game. Rain is some of the shittiest around, and the game world is generally visually static. But I can't say any of that impacted my enjoyment of the game while playing*, with the one exception being this crummy bloom I'm experiencing now. There were enough strengths to make up for the flaws; for example, the shitty grass in the All Ghillied Up level was forgiven given the overall good looks of most other things in that level. It looked good enough.

*That is not to say I haven't ripped on the game for it, but hey, that's what we do.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 06, 2009, 01:02:34 AM
Wait, people are really saying CoD4 looks like crap?  It's not a looker in the MP, but most of the single player levels looked really good for a game in 2007.  It's not Crysis or Uncharted or Gears, but it looked great.  This (http://xbox360media.ign.com/xbox360/image/article/796/796052/call-of-duty-4-modern-warfare-20070613003856277.jpg) runs at a solid 60fps, and keep in mind this was released in June '07.  Of course its flaws are more apparent two years later, but it doesn't look mediocre at all or anything.

The framerate only dropped a few times in the SP, too, and it's literally rock solid in the MP.  If you're having framerate problems in multiplayer (at least on 360), your system is messed up.

It's not like KZ2 is perfect either, it has some framerate dips even at 30fps.

CoD4 doesn't look like crap, but it doesn't really look great.  It's like you say, it's not Crysis, Uncharted, Gears, Bioshock, STALKER, Assassin's Creed, GRAW, R6 Vegas or other good looking games.  Even when it came out it wasn't really impressive or anything.  The reason I bring it up is because the thread is about how IW has to step up their game when their last game wasn't some amazing looking game.  And in the time since CoD4 came out, there are even more games that look much better.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 01:16:30 AM
Quote
Even when it came out it wasn't really impressive or anything

huh? i think i'm going nuts, i seem to remember people going crazy for Cod4 looks wise.
Especially the opening sequence when it was first shown.

I think a lot of people were impressed thematically, and then went on benders arguing for some technical excellence that wasn't there in order to justify/explain this fascination with the theme. IW is no doubt very skilled at design on a thematic level, but COD4 was quite weak in many ways at the time it was released. Take that much hyped All Ghillied Up E3 demonstration. Even in that demonstration, you could see how god awful the grass was, but it was cleverly neutered beforehand by the admittedly cool hiding in plain sight effect of the immediate opening.

On a related note, I hope they improve the sound. I don't care if it's realistic or not, the guns sound lame.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 06, 2009, 01:21:34 AM
Quote
Even when it came out it wasn't really impressive or anything

huh? i think i'm going nuts, i seem to remember people going crazy for Cod4 looks wise.
Especially the opening sequence when it was first shown.

Quote
And in the time since CoD4 came out, there are even more games that look much better

same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

Also, not sure if everyone has tried it, but the "Behind the bullet" demo thing for KZ2 is worth looking at.




yeah, people were praising CoD4 when it came out and I was always a bit confused by it.  Like, I remember specially during the Microsoft E3 press conference when they showed off a level and everyone was going crazy about it and it just didn't really look as amazing as they would make it out to be.

and I'm saying that CoD4 wasn't really among the great looking games when it was released and more impressive games released later on never got the same attention that it did.  It was just bizarre to me.

I did check out that behind the bullet thing and it was kinda cool I guess.  The interesting part was how they explained the tricks they did to make the engine seem more powerful than it was, like faking water reflections and having nothing appear behind the immediate scene (which is why you can pan 360 around the scene)
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 01:27:15 AM
Next time you play the ship level/map, try looking up at the rain. Weirdest rain ever.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 06, 2009, 01:35:46 AM
Greatest thing about COD4 is how good it looked for the speed it moved at, and for the action set pieces it had. The final Car Chase sequence, is pure orgasm. Sure it's scripted and whatever, but it was amazing.

I could only wish other games attempted at having such amazing sequences. Oh well.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 01:39:50 AM
It's just a shame that sequence has been in every one of their COD games
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: demi on April 06, 2009, 01:48:35 AM
It's just a shame that sequence has been in every one of their COD games

who is "their" - i dont recall a car chase level in COD5

or even 3

and 2
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 01:51:44 AM
Infinity Ward. And I'm pretty sure there was a car chase scene in COD2, although that could have been the marginally different one. Still, you're a passenger in a car and it's going fast through enemies.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: fistfulofmetal on April 06, 2009, 06:46:32 AM
Nope. The last time there was a car chase was in COD1. GG.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: maxy on April 06, 2009, 07:16:46 AM
IW has nothing to fear,just look at latest UK Charts,huge legs,66 weeks on all-format charts.
As for the teh graphicz,its 60fps so COD4,MW2>rest of the pack


1                WII FIT     WII     
2                RESIDENT EVIL 5    XB360   
3                PROFESSOR LAYTON AND THE CURIOUS VILLAGE    DS   
4                GRAND THEFT AUTO: CHINATOWN WARS    DS   
5                MARIO KART WII    WII    NINTENDO   
6                RESIDENT EVIL 5    PS3    CAPCOM   
7                DR KAWASHIMA'S BRAIN TRAINING    DS   
8                WII PLAY    WII   
9                WHEELMAN    XB360   
10              MY FITNESS COACH    WII   
11              CALL OF DUTY 4: MODERN WARFARE    XB360       
12              STREET FIGHTER IV    PS3    CAPCOM   
13              CLUB PENGUIN: ELITE PENGUIN FORCE    DS   
14              KILLZONE 2    PS3   
15              MARIO & SONIC AT THE OLYMPIC GAMES    WII 


Imagine the surge of fanboys when MW2 is released...scary
IW will  :lol
The rest will  :'( 
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: CHOW CHOW on April 06, 2009, 09:09:05 AM
same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

You are one sad motherfucker... the subtlety of your trolling knows no bounds.  I'm playing through RE5 as we speak and there's no way any objective-minded individual could think this game tops Killzone 2 graphically. Not gonna respond to your reply if you make one...just not worth the time.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 06, 2009, 10:59:36 AM
Another bitch outburst from Chow Chow.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 06, 2009, 11:07:28 AM
same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

You are one sad motherfucker... the subtlety of your trolling knows no bounds.  I'm playing through RE5 as we speak and there's no way any objective-minded individual could think this game tops Killzone 2 graphically. Not gonna respond to your reply if you make one...just not worth the time.
I hope you realize that such outbursts are responsible for much of the negativity surrounding this game.  I'm positive that people are being harder on the game simply to counter posts like yours.  That sort of attitude immediately results in a defensive response.  Do you really think you can convince someone to change their opinions by insulting them?  Of course not.  It simply ends up escalating on both sides and certain titles get unfairly drug through the mud.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 11:12:24 AM
same for every game though, thus is the advancement of time. KZ2 sat on the top of the perch for consoles for , what? , 2 weeks?
And i'm sure RE5 will be replaced soon enough.

You are one sad motherfucker... the subtlety of your trolling knows no bounds.  I'm playing through RE5 as we speak and there's no way any objective-minded individual could think this game tops Killzone 2 graphically. Not gonna respond to your reply if you make one...just not worth the time.


someone get this dude his inhaler
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Eel O'Brian on April 06, 2009, 11:20:56 AM
i don't even want to play it now
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 11:55:45 AM
Nope. The last time there was a car chase was in COD1. GG.

Yeah, my bad, it was an armored car sequence
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Andowsky on April 06, 2009, 02:22:17 PM
Call of Duty 4 looks great and has a great framerate.

Killzone 2 looks great and has a decent framerate.

Call of Duty 4 obliterates KZ2 in gameplay.

Call of Duty 4 wins.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 06, 2009, 03:02:17 PM
Man, why can't we all just get along :(
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: brawndolicious on April 06, 2009, 04:16:36 PM
The armored car sequence in COD2 was a lot slower than the final section of COD4.  Also, it was just a turret section so it was kind of boring.  COD3 did have a section where you pointed out targets to the tank that you were riding on.  COD:WAW also let you ride on the side of the tank if you wanted but that was kind of suicidal.  The only proper "shooting enemies while being chased in a car" sequence in any COD game that I remember is in COD1 and 4.

As for graphics, today a lot of parts of COD4 still look good technically.  The transition animations are among the best or maybe even the best in any game.  The night-vision and lighting effects just feel spot-on.  And the hiding in the grass thing still does work well in the multiplayer.  However, the grass blades are pixely if your prone and focusing on them but that's kind of forgivable since no FPS with large grass environments has really gotten more detailed than that.

The fact that it runs at 60 fps most of the time is probably the biggest reason that it's aged so well though.  Maybe the blur effects in games like KZ2 and Lost Planet can make it look the same but you definitely feel the difference when actually playing the game.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: MMaRsu on April 06, 2009, 05:40:58 PM
Its a great and very awesome engine, graphically unmatched by any console game.

However when I was playing it I always felt like a dwarf. I mean if you stand next to a friend of yours, your face is around the height of his shoulderrs! Wtf is that about
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 06, 2009, 06:04:31 PM
Its a great and very awesome engine, graphically unmatched by any console game.

However when I was playing it I always felt like a dwarf. I mean if you stand next to a friend of yours, your face is around the height of his shoulderrs! Wtf is that about

No kidding, and it's lower than the shoulders. More like, a bit higher than his waist, it's ridiculous.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 07:56:20 PM
re5 looks so much more impressive than killzone 2, seriously

depth of field and motion blur were cool back when they were 3dfx demos
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: MCD on April 06, 2009, 08:02:52 PM
POOR PERFORMANCE INDEED!
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 06, 2009, 08:16:31 PM
re5 looks so much more impressive than killzone 2, seriously

depth of field and motion blur were cool back when they were 3dfx demos

@_@

The train level is very impressive looking.  It's more about correctly doing/faking the lighting than effects.  Although the particle effects like the dirt/dust/ashes are fantastic looking as well.

RE5 has its crappy looking parts too like the entire stage out on the powerboat stopping at little hut towns.

I think it's a tough toss up between which is the better looking game.  At their BEST moments, both games are better looking than other games on the market.  At their WORST moments, both look worse than many other current-gen games.  On average, both look quite good.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Smooth Groove on April 06, 2009, 08:20:59 PM
Real talk.  

This weekend, I showed KZ2 to two of my friends and neither of them was impressed by it.  They claimed that KZ2 looked too blurry and didn't even seem to be rendered in HD.  

Based on what I've read from other gamers on the internet, their judgments of KZ2 were quite surprising to me.  

I actually played the devil's advocate and tried to convince them that Killzone 2 was a great technical accomplishment but neither could look past KZ2's not so impressive textures and lack of crispness.  

Through no prompts from me, both claimed that Gears of War 2 looked better than KZ2.  They also thought that SF4 looked great.  

Maybe image quality is more important to the perception of good graphics than fancy, special effects?  
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 06, 2009, 08:25:20 PM
I thought KZ2 looked very meh at first and made those exact comments your friends did when I played the demo.  Hell, I made them in the demo thread here on EB bashing the graphics. The textures looked weak like most PS3 games and the IQ was blurry.

But when I played the full game it looked a lot more impressive.  I'm not sure if it's just because the first level is the worst looking area, or it just takes a little while to adjust to the visual style of the game.  But by the middle of the game when you are out in the sandy wasteland straight out of Dune it looked great.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 08:33:10 PM
KZ2 is really at its best when you're engaged in CQB in fairly dark areas and it gets to show off it's lighting and shadow savvy. Some things just plain look good, like the incredible weapon models, but those are the situations where it really shines. Add some sweet explosions to the mix, and it's just hot. But then I'm just as impressed by Banjo, so hey. Gears feels much too flat, although it's definitely not without its own strengths and very impressive moments.

For what it's worth, I don't think the initial level looked all that great.

Prole, have you actually played a significant amount of KZ2? I don't know how it measures up to RE5 beyond the demo of that game, but I have a very hard time believing that the game could compare to something like the train, Suljeva or the refinery on a "much more impressive" level. The multiplayer map set in the desert is fucking impressive, too. I'm not buying it, dude.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: demi on April 06, 2009, 08:37:11 PM
Man, why can't we all just get along :(

As long as you don't take it seriously, we can get along just fine


Resident Evil 5 > Dead Space
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Brehvolution on April 06, 2009, 09:10:47 PM
haha the hate couldn't be contained in one thread.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 11:15:59 PM
KZ2 is really at its best when you're engaged in CQB in fairly dark areas and it gets to show off it's lighting and shadow savvy. Some things just plain look good, like the incredible weapon models, but those are the situations where it really shines. Add some sweet explosions to the mix, and it's just hot. But then I'm just as impressed by Banjo, so hey. Gears feels much too flat, although it's definitely not without its own strengths and very impressive moments.

For what it's worth, I don't think the initial level looked all that great.

Prole, have you actually played a significant amount of KZ2? I don't know how it measures up to RE5 beyond the demo of that game, but I have a very hard time believing that the game could compare to something like the train, Suljeva or the refinery on a "much more impressive" level. The multiplayer map set in the desert is fucking impressive, too. I'm not buying it, dude.

you mean the ugly, lo-rez pixelmass shadow savvy? admittedly, that would translate to "ugly stipple gradient shadow savvy" on the 360, but the fact remains: the ps3 hardware limitations poke out throughout the game. at least re5's devs were smart of enough to embrace the limitations of shitty consoles.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Beezy on April 06, 2009, 11:20:04 PM
POOR PERFORMANCE INDEED!
:lol
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 11:23:02 PM
I thought KZ2 looked very meh at first and made those exact comments your friends did when I played the demo.  Hell, I made them in the demo thread here on EB bashing the graphics. The textures looked weak like most PS3 games and the IQ was blurry.

But when I played the full game it looked a lot more impressive.  I'm not sure if it's just because the first level is the worst looking area, or it just takes a little while to adjust to the visual style of the game.  But by the middle of the game when you are out in the sandy wasteland straight out of Dune it looked great.

the train level looked great, for sure, but that was due to the slick wind physics bits -- i couldn't tell if they were canned or calculated on the fly (most likely some combination thereof), but it did look great. overall, though, the engine didn't wow me.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 11:25:18 PM
Well, I suppose they could have taken the safe (lame) route and just made everything static with limited exceptions, but I prefer the far more interesting route Guerrilla took, occasionally sketchy shadow quality or not. And about embracing limitations, KZ2 is pretty blatantly designed with the PS3 shortcomings and strengths in mind, as opposed to for example Resistance 2, which looks like an Xbox 360 game forced to be on a platform it doesn't belong on. I just plain don't buy that there is any sensible justification for the "so much more impressive" claim.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 11:31:32 PM
there's not a lot of technical justification, other than that re5 doesn't show its limitations so glaringly and is much, much more interesting to look at, visually

i mean, if you wanna get down to actual hardware/software technical features, killzone 2 isn't doing much beyond what lost planet did two years ago, unless you're counting MAYBE better physics and vaseline dof/blur
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 11:36:25 PM
Moving this...

I don't know about technical achievements. I'm not sure what impressive engine tech even means these days. It looks great, but I'm not sure it's because it's doing anything incredible on a technical level. Top notch designs and a keen sense for composition seems to have more to do with it, coupled with a good understanding of what the technical platform needs to be for the actual hardware it's supposed to be running. It's got quite a dramatic look.

[youtube=560,345]HGX-SSAU5kU[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]KqLvkGZWSj4[/youtube]
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 06, 2009, 11:38:46 PM
I don't think you can argue that KZ2 is amazing from a tech perspective.  Like 99% of PS3 exclusives it is technically weak because the PS3 is technically a weak system compared to the X360 with a lot of limitations. Uncharted is about the only PS3 engine that looks damn impressive even when compared to X360 engines but then Naughty Dog always rocks at graphic tech.

But I'd still argue that KZ2 looks as good or better than RE5, but that's because I think the team did an amazing art job within the limitations of gimped PS3 hardware to fool you into thinking it looks good.  See, that's the thing about PS3 games, they have to do tricks to "fake" things to make you think they look good and are doing the real thing.  But at the end of the day if it's faked well enough that you can't tell, who cares?  It still looks amazing.  I'm sure the RE5 engine technically stomps the KZ2 one, but the KZ2 one tricks me into thinking it looks as good as RE5, and I'm fine with that.  If I met any of the engine guys at Guerilla I'd give them a pat on the back for great work on KZ2.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 11:42:47 PM
Generally I agree, in that I think it's much more of an achievement in product design than it is any technical, cell-fueled marvel, but the PS3 seems to tolerate a whole lot of stuff going on at once without choking, though. Maybe it's just a matter of having skilled, dedicated developers, but I rarely feel like the games are about to break apart from everything going on.

One thing here though... the real thing? Faking it? What part of computer-aided design isn't faked? We've generally come a long way from blob shadows and paint-on wall shadows, but I feel like there are some of those mythical standards rearing their heads again here.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 11:50:34 PM
i'm not denying it looks great at all. there were certainly a few moments, especially in the more intense firefights, where i shat my pants at the visuals. in the end, though, like gow2, it all felt a bit rickety and contrived, like i was pedalling through a setpiece demonstration with the all-too-frequent peep at the cardboard, wires, and string barely holding it together. take that against far cry 2, which, while having less of an impact in any given instance, had an amazing global lighting and lod model in a large open streaming world that really struck me as a technical accomplishment on consoles.

i ain't sayin' killzone 2 has no chops, because it does. the physics are used precisely the way i want to see physics used -- not for global behaviors, but in very narrow contexts used to create a strong cinematic sense. a lot of stupid-hard dev work went into those indivdual behaviors in killzone 2, and maybe? they played to the ps3's strengths. but a technical masterpiece? nah. there's nothing that couldn't be done on  the 360 given the same manpower and manhours, although they'd have a different set of limitations to fudge (stipple gradients on shadows, again, for example).
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 06, 2009, 11:53:44 PM
i think bebpo is talking about contextual models as opposed to global ones. john carmack is a genius in the former approach, where you smartly allocate resources to those limited areas in a scene that will generate the biggest impact, rather than rolling up a completely unified resource/lighting model. on the other hand, the latter is more impressive, from a hardware performance standpoint, especially given the optimization complexity necessary to make it/them work. it's too different approaches: one makes for better screenshots and tighter per-scene visuals, and the other makes for a stronger sense of holistic cohesion.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 06, 2009, 11:56:06 PM
i ain't sayin' killzone 2 has no chops, because it does. the physics are used precisely the way i want to see physics used -- not for global behaviors, but in very narrow contexts used to create a strong cinematic sense. a lot of stupid-hard dev work went into those indivdual behaviors in killzone 2, and maybe? they played to the ps3's strengths. but a technical masterpiece? nah. there's nothing that couldn't be done on  the 360 given the same manpower and manhours, although they'd have a different set of limitations to fudge (stipple gradients on shadows, again, for example).

Which sort of brings up another issue, the one of actually seeing those results. It makes me increasingly annoyed with Microsoft's (admittedly understandable) apparent disinterest in feeding money and power pills to internal studios. I don't think we'll be seeing much of this from Sony i the future either, and I don't think it's a bleeding necessity, but it's nice to occasionally get to see what these systems can do.

By the way, since you brought up Far Cry 2, that game made for the perfect companion game to Killzone. KZ2 had a numbing effect after a while, and an hour of playing Jeep-having safari sniper in ridiculously open ended Far Cry 2 was the perfect cure. And then going back to KZ2 made me appreciate the quality of the close quarter combat of KZ2.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 07, 2009, 12:03:38 AM
killzone 2 will be an interesting artifact of the time, for sure: a huge amount of money and resources poured into what is ultimately a flawed and unmemorable by-the-numbers fps title that will only be remembered by the system warriors (remember outriggers on the dreamcast? OMG ITS 60 FPS FROM SEGA~ PS2 D0MED) -- it's an extravagance that is a neat blip on a history of game development, but will probably never be an approach used in the future. i just wish they'd spent all that money and brainpower and time on a more ambitious game!
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 07, 2009, 12:09:16 AM
I would have enjoyed something less ordinary, but come on. Flawed? The game has some of the best A.I. in the business, enemies actually react to getting shot (as opposed to falling over like a cod on dry land irrespective of how they got killed) and the gunplay is fuck awesome. Yes, even with laggy controls. I don't think it's going to be remembered for much beyond being the high (low?) watermark for warzone atmosphere, though, because it is just another shooter that does little more than being a shooter, and one without many memorable key moments. But it does what it does very well.

To be honest, I think Guerrilla was pretty heavily burdened with proving itself after their previous failures, which would maybe account for why it's as, er, focused as it is. I hope these guys aren't going to be forever shackled to the shooter genre.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 07, 2009, 12:09:59 AM
i think that's what YOU prioritize
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 07, 2009, 12:13:11 AM
True, but it doesn't actually fail at much. Admittedly, it also doesn't do much that it could fail at. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone who wasn't dead set on having a good shooter, and nothing but a shooter.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 07, 2009, 12:16:37 AM
i've actually recommended it to folks looking for just that. it still doesn't make it anything other than a by-the-numbers affair, even despite its workmanlike presentation. to me, it was just cod4 in a new coat of paint, even if the flavor had nuances i didn't necessarily appreciate.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 07, 2009, 01:23:23 AM
Any huge letdown or remembrance will be because of the crazy Sony fans making millions of .gifs and comments leading up to release.

The guys at Guerilla just wanted to make a cool fps with mechs and cool art and stuff that wasn't completely bogged down by the hardware like KZ1.  They got to do it and did it.  These aren't AAAAAA devs.   I don't think they wanted to make the best game ever.  They just wanted to make their own fps and now they'll get a chance to make another one with other cool stuff they enjoy and want to put in.

I don't really see KZ2 being more than a blip on the PS3 or current-gen timeline, but I don't really care about that.  shrug.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: TEEEPO on April 07, 2009, 01:57:25 AM
uh
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Smooth Groove on April 07, 2009, 06:36:21 AM
It's pretty sad that even Sony fans have given up on defending the technical superiority of the PS3. 

I almost miss the SH3 old man.   
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 07, 2009, 09:26:33 AM
Quote
depth of field and motion blur were cool back when they were 3dfx demos
The type of motion blur and depth of field used in modern games is a completely different beast from what 3DFX was doing with the T-buffer.  Motion blur and depth of field have always impressed me as far back as the PS2.  It wasn't until the PS2 that we started seeing a lot of cool work with blur and depth of field.  Back in 2001, even the PC could not handle such effects in a game environment (it took another two years or so before depth of field or motion blur became used in PC titles).

The type of blur used today, however, is insanely demanding in comparison.  Trackmania Sunrise was actually one of the first games to attempt it and it destroyed performance.  I could run the game at a perfect 60 fps on my 6800GT back in the day, but enabling motion blur more than halved the framerate.  The quality of these effects have improved as well.  The type of blur used in Killzone 2 is nothing to scoff at.  It's true per-object, velocity based motion blur.  I think it's an amazing effect in all of the games that make use of it.  It's the best visual effect to come out of this generation, in my opinion.  It brings animation that much closer to emulating the look of pre-rendered CG.

Quote
take that against far cry 2, which, while having less of an impact in any given instance, had an amazing global lighting and lod model in a large open streaming world that really struck me as a technical accomplishment on consoles.
It should be noted that, unlike Gears of War 2, the shadows and lighting in Killzone 2 are actually completely dynamic.  If the scene lighting were adjusted, the shadows would change accordingly.

Honestly, I think GTAIV is a much more impressive looking open world game on consoles.  The level of detail is so much higher than Far Cry 2.  I've only ever played the PC version of Far Cry 2 as well (which I've heard looks better than the console versions).

I suppose the problem with Killzone 2 is simply that it goes for a more cohesive and subtle look to the point where the average person won't appreciate what they are doing with the visuals.  I think that's part of its success.  The technology was used to enhance its art direction rather than define it.  I also think the textures get a lot more shit than they deserve.  They look really good, for the most part.  If you analyze any of the surface textures in Gears 2, for instance, you'd find that they really are not any more detailed.  It's simply that using a 3rd person POV keeps the camera away from such surfaces.  Killzone 2 aims for texture variety rather than small, repeating patterns.  FEAR 2, for instance, displays sharper detail when textures are viewed up close, but they mostly rely on highly concentrated patterns (such as tiles or bricks) which makes this a piece of cake.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 07, 2009, 10:25:35 AM
I don't know.

Sony 1st Party has 10x the tech that MS 1st Party has in comparison. And FFXIII will end up looking like dog shit on the 360 i bet.

Oh and GTAIV is still the most impressive game of the generation.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 07, 2009, 11:07:28 AM
Quote
And FFXIII will end up looking like dog shit on the 360 i bet.

so we all agree it'll be a perfect 100% port of the Ps3 version then?  :-[
I'm surprised that anyone would think that it looks like dog shit.  Although they've obviously had some pretty serious issues getting to where they are, the realtime media has looked really nice.

Of course, I'm not going to hold my breath.  Star Ocean 4 looked great in the initial media as well, but the final product is pretty damn ugly (terrible shader aliasing, low resolution battles, ugly tiled textures, framerate issues, etc).  This gen has been full of uneven looking RPGs.

If FFXIII manages to look as nice as the realtime footage in the trailer suggests, it's pretty much the nicest looking RPG to come out of Japan this generation (as it should be, considering the budget and time invested).  It's obviously not a hardware thing, however.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 07, 2009, 11:27:47 AM
Playing SO4, the main reason why it's ugly besides the art style and textures that accompany that (and besides the awful resolution in battle), is the ultra-low geometry used for the environment.  It's like SUB-Oblivion and towns/dungeons look closer to Morrowind than anything out of this generation which is pathetic.  I haven't played a lot of IU, but what I did play had far nicer and more current-gen looking environments even if the framerate didn't hold up.  SO4 is definitely the worst looking of the big name rpgs this gen so far.

Quote
the realtime media has looked really nice.

wowzers, the LAST person on earth i'd have thought that would think the realtime media looks nice, i would have put my money on, would have been you.

More dropped frames than an art gallery in Italy.

Of course, it's an RPG so it doesn't really matter, but the realtime media has looked insanely janky to date.



FFXIII looks fantastic outside the framerate (which isn't even horrible, just a little more choppy than wanted).  If they smooth out the framerate then it'll be one of the best looking games on the market.  Even better than RE5/Killzone2 or whatever.  If they don't, it'll still be the best looking jrpg.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 07, 2009, 11:44:41 AM
Quote
the realtime media has looked really nice.

wowzers, the LAST person on earth i'd have thought that would think the realtime media looks nice, i would have put my money on, would have been you.

More dropped frames than an art gallery in Italy.

Of course, it's an RPG so it doesn't really matter, but the realtime media has looked insanely janky to date.

Err, DC, Blue Dragon was one of the best looking RPGs this gen (one of the only good looking ones, if you ask me) and its framerate was MUCH worse than the FFXIII footage.  I agree that the framerate isn't great at this point, but I still think it LOOKS really nice.  I thought the realtime cutscenes were particularly nice looking.

If the framerate is that slow in the demo, however, I will be more disappointed.

Outside of the framerate, though, I don't see where you could level complaints (especially in comparison to the rest of the JRPGs out there).  I suppose the most consistent looking RPG would be Tales of Vesperia, but it has its own problems (poor animation during all narrative sequences, for instance).  The rest of the games in the genre as of late have been really uneven.  Blue Dragon was beautiful, but had a terrible framerate.  Lost Odyssey looked great sometimes, yet ugly as sin at other times while also having a poor framerate and loading issues.  Trusty Bell was fairly simplistic, but decent looking.  Star Ocean 4 was ugly as was Infinite Undiscovery (a huge disappointment considering what they did on PS2).  Last Remnant had loads of severe technical problems on 360 in addition to very simplistic visuals (low poly as hell).  It's been a sad generation for JRPG visuals, really.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 07, 2009, 12:18:47 PM
Mistwalker has done a pretty good job bringing jrpgs to this generation graphically though.  I think it might have to do with their 25 million a game budget, but outside of tech problems (BD = framerate; LO = framerate/animation) their rpgs brought out a lot of what I wanted from current gen jrpg visuals.

I'm extremely disappointed the games did so poorly that the studio basically was forced to become another DS house and cancel Cry On and probably Blue Dragon 2/LO2.  If things had gone well I'm guessing we would've seen Cry On release last winter and Blue Dragon 2 would be coming this year.  ;_;  Instead we get a Blue Dragon MMO on DS :(
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: duckman2000 on April 07, 2009, 01:12:56 PM
I haven't played it myself, but from what I've seen of it, Tales of Vesperia looked sort of pretty.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Smooth Groove on April 07, 2009, 02:11:54 PM
It wasn't until the PS2 that we started seeing a lot of cool work with blur and depth of field.  Back in 2001, even the PC could not handle such effects in a game environment (it took another two years or so before depth of field or motion blur became used in PC titles).

Not really.  The PC could already handle such effects in 2001 since the Geforce 3 was already released.  The Geforce 3 was at least equal to the Xbox's GPU which easily handled DOF and MB effects. 

The PS2 was never more powerful than top of the line PCs for two years.  It was just pure marketing hype that the PS2 would be more advanced than PCs for years. 

One reason why there weren't too many visually groundbreaking titles on the PC was because even some PC devs bought into the PS2 hype.  A couple of the big names, like Carmack, really did think for awhile that it was going to take PC hardware many years to catch up to the PS2. 



Quote
I suppose the problem with Killzone 2 is simply that it goes for a more cohesive and subtle look to the point where the average person won't appreciate what they are doing with the visuals.  I think that's part of its success.  The technology was used to enhance its art direction rather than define it.  I also think the textures get a lot more shit than they deserve.  They look really good, for the most part.  If you analyze any of the surface textures in Gears 2, for instance, you'd find that they really are not any more detailed.  It's simply that using a 3rd person POV keeps the camera away from such surfaces.  Killzone 2 aims for texture variety rather than small, repeating patterns.  FEAR 2, for instance, displays sharper detail when textures are viewed up close, but they mostly rely on highly concentrated patterns (such as tiles or bricks) which makes this a piece of cake.



Actually Drinky made a very strong argument that the average person is more likely to be impressed by Killzone 2 than someone knowledgeble in tech. 
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 07, 2009, 02:14:33 PM
I haven't played it myself, but from what I've seen of it, Tales of Vesperia looked sort of pretty.
As I said, it's probably the most consistent looking JRPG this generation.  It's main issue lies in the fact that it animates poorly outside of battle.  They use the same type of animation you saw back in Tales of Symphonia and Abyss.  It feels out of place when the characters themselves look so incredible.  The image quality was perfect and it really had the look of an animated title, but the animation was very much last generation.

Quote
Not really.  The PC could already handle such effects in 2001 since the Geforce 3 was already released.  The Geforce 3 was at least equal to the Xbox's GPU which easily handled DOF and MB effects. 
That may be so, but no games used it (perhaps for the reason stated above).
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: maxy on April 07, 2009, 02:24:16 PM
I am surprised that this thread hasn't evolved into screnshoot war...rawr
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: Bebpo on April 07, 2009, 02:27:54 PM
It's not that Vesperia has bad animation outside of battle.  It's that it has no animation outside of battle, lol.  The characters just stand still while you advance the dialogue and occasionally move from one pose to another.  I don't think it's fair to fault the graphics for this though, as it's just an old-school design choice.

Vesperia looks nice and is very, very polished and consistent.  The only graphical downpoint is that it's just not particularly detailed and not a huge step up from what they were doing last-gen.  The art style is very, very simple but pleasing.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: dark1x on April 07, 2009, 02:57:20 PM
Yeah, it pretty much refines last generation "Tales of" presentation.

That's why I appreciated what Blue Dragon and Lost Odyssey attempted to do.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: cool breeze on April 07, 2009, 03:58:31 PM
Infinite Undiscovery looked alright too outside of the frame rate.
Title: Re: Killzone 2 has an amazing engine
Post by: tiesto on April 08, 2009, 09:55:05 AM
Infinite Undiscovery looked alright too outside of the frame rate.


Some of the later areas in IU, especially the final palace, looked fantastic. But that was more on the art rather than the tech side of things.