THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Himu on April 25, 2009, 12:14:52 AM

Title: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 25, 2009, 12:14:52 AM: Was talking to my man OscartheGrouch the other day and he got me interested in Jak 2.

I may get it soon, but I'm not sure if I should bother playing the game yet. I barely played any of Jak 1. Should I play these games in order?

Is the platforming better than Ratchet games? What I dislike about Ratchet is that the action is too simplistic and the shooting too elementary. This is why I've always preferred the Sly games.

I really love Daxter on the psp, which is one of the best damn platformers I've played on a portable system but that's Daxter. What about the main series?

Since I love GTA and sandbox games and sidequests and exploring I think Jak II would interest me the most.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: AdmiralViscen on April 25, 2009, 12:26:57 AM: I have all 3 but only really played 1.

1 rocks, its like banjo kazooie. def better platformer than ratchet. I dabbled in 2 but found it boring
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 25, 2009, 12:28:56 AM: Yeah I played a bit of 1 and 2 back when they came out but I wasn't into it much. Since they're cheap now I figured I could give em another go.

Then again, I think I played Jak after I first played Ratchet. I used to really like Ratchet.

Since I'm kinda burned out on Ratchet I figure I could check out Jak with a fresh clean slate.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Joe Molotov on April 25, 2009, 12:32:34 AM: Jak 1: Fun, but short and easy.

Jak 2 & 3: GAAAAAY.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: pilonv1 on April 25, 2009, 12:40:35 AM: jak 2 is all kinds of distinguished mentally-challenged.

the first one is a nice platformer but they've been ever shittier since.

if you want a good game get DAXTER on PSP
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: demi on April 25, 2009, 12:46:31 AM: Jak is a shit series
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Crushed on April 25, 2009, 01:00:00 AM: but when has naughty dog EVER let us down, you guys!?
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Vizzys on April 25, 2009, 01:05:12 AM: Quote from: Crushed on April 25, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
but when has naughty dog EVER let us down, you guys!?
pretty much everytime they make a sequel to a decent game they had
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: brawndolicious on April 25, 2009, 01:08:07 AM: The GTAish parts of the second game sucked. The driving felt wonky and it took forever to get around.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: demi on April 25, 2009, 01:23:56 AM: Quote from: Crushed on April 25, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
but when has naughty dog EVER let us down, you guys!?

Crash Bandicoot was A+
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on April 25, 2009, 01:38:22 AM: Jak and Daxter is awesome.
Jak 2 wasn't that bad, just not the pure great 3D platformer that the first game was. The shooting and driving, which it had a lot of, was pretty rough.
Jak 3 was better than 2, not as good as the first.
Daxter was a lot of fun too.

I never realized how much the Jak series is like Prince of Persia. First game is mostly a platformer, second game gets darker and tries to improve the combat and the third game tries to have more of a balance.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Madrun Badrun on April 25, 2009, 01:41:33 AM: One has aged horribly. It's gameplay is like a ps1 game. I did enjoy the second and third ones though.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: duckman2000 on April 25, 2009, 01:45:02 AM: Never really got into the series, but I got a PS2 pretty late and I sort of stuck with Ratchet and Sly. Liked what I played of the third one, though.

As for ND, I sort for wish they would make a cart racing game, although I'm not sure what characters they would use. Crash Team Racing was so fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on April 25, 2009, 01:46:40 AM: How was Jak X? I never bothered picking that up.

They should just do some Playstation character racing game. Jak, Ratchet, Sly, Sackboy, that Japanese cat thing, Hot Shots Golf character or some shit like that.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: duckman2000 on April 25, 2009, 01:50:46 AM: I played it a bit, but I couldn't really connect with it. Too slow to match Wipeout, and too cartoony to match Rallisport. CTR was just plain fun, and probably the best split-screen MP I've ever played.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 25, 2009, 02:02:51 AM: Quote from: Viz on April 25, 2009, 01:05:12 AM
Quote from: Crushed on April 25, 2009, 01:00:00 AM
but when has naughty dog EVER let us down, you guys!?
pretty much everytime they make a sequel to a decent game they had

Crash 2 owned stfu :
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Bebpo on April 25, 2009, 02:42:50 AM: The 2nd one is awesome but get ready to be pissed off at parts. It's cheap and evil but it's REALLY good at parts and has arguably the best challenging platforming on PS2.

I still need to play 3. The first one is ok. It has more pure platforming, but it's also kinda generic simple and doesn't hold up to great platformers imo.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: bork on April 25, 2009, 05:28:07 AM: Never played Crash. Any of them.
Never played Jak And Daxter. Any of them.

Never gave a shit. Always hated the character design in those games, and they just looked so uninspired and boring. I guess the Sony commercials with the Crash mascot guy were funny at the time though.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Darunia on April 25, 2009, 06:35:40 AM: I thought the first one was really good, but I disliked 2. The hub city was just not fun to explore. 3 was a shorter game and felt like a more polished version of 2. I really liked that game, it's my favorite of the series.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Kestastrophe on April 25, 2009, 08:13:43 AM: Shit sucks compared to Going Commando and UYA, but the PSP Daxter is alright
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 25, 2009, 09:51:43 AM: Jak and Daxter 2 was the best action platformer of last generation to me. Normally i don't like difficult games, but i loved this one.

The driving itself was platforming, you had two height levels with the cars, and jumping from car to car, if you knew what you were doing, if you got a hang of it, it would become really awesome. Unfortunately, most people didn't get a hang of it, and it got frustrating, and they then say the game sucks.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Powerslave on April 25, 2009, 10:51:42 AM: Quote from: the lyte edge on April 25, 2009, 05:28:07 AM
Never played Crash. Any of them.
Never played Jak And Daxter. Any of them.

Never gave a shit. Always hated the character design in those games, and they just looked so uninspired and boring. I guess the Sony commercials with the Crash mascot guy were funny at the time though.

You missed out on the greatest 3D platformers ever made.

Crash 2 and 3 that is.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: siamesedreamer on April 25, 2009, 11:08:01 AM: Daxter PSP kicked ass. That's my only exposure to the series though.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Eric P on April 25, 2009, 11:27:18 AM: first one is great, daxter for psp is pretty good

the rest, avoid, avoid, avoid
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 25, 2009, 11:31:19 AM: Basically, if you like bare bones platformers, Jak and Daxter is your thing. However, if the thought of a straight forward platformer bores you, and you would like something a bit more "modern", then you'll like Jak and Daxter 2, because it's not just a platformer, it's an action platformer adventure game.

You don't have to avoid shit, just figure out what you like more.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 25, 2009, 02:17:46 PM: JSRF is what I consider to be an action platformer adventure game. I consider it the best 3d platformer last gen.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 25, 2009, 02:30:47 PM: Completely different.

Love Jet Set Radio Future, would kill for a next gen sequel, but "action" isn't what directly comes to mind. Jak 2 is much more action focused.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Third on April 25, 2009, 07:08:40 PM: All of them are great.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: fistfulofmetal on April 25, 2009, 07:17:52 PM: Jak 3 is fucking amazing. I played it back in 2006 and was blown away. I didn't like Jak 2 very much. Jak 1 was a good game but I never ended finished it.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Tucah on April 25, 2009, 07:22:50 PM: I own the first but never played it, got distracted by the Sly series instead. Probably should start it again soon, I love platformers.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 26, 2009, 01:21:39 AM: Got Jak 2 and I don't think I've ever played a 3d action platformer this good, like ever.

3d platformers are easy as shit. But this is awesome. The mix between shooting and platforming make it a winner. The only bad part of the game is the actual city. Traveling across one point of the map to the other is tedious. There should be a quick teleport system.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Darunia on April 26, 2009, 12:28:18 PM: thread got me to turn on my PS2 again and start a new game of Jak 3. My afternoon's pretty much gone, game's so much fun
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 26, 2009, 12:51:08 PM: Quote from: Himuro on April 26, 2009, 01:21:39 AM
Got Jak 2 and I don't think I've ever played a 3d action platformer this good, like ever.

3d platformers are easy as shit. But this is awesome. The mix between shooting and platforming make it a winner. The only bad part of the game is the actual city. Traveling across one point of the map to the other is tedious. There should be a quick teleport system.

It becomes more engaging if you start doing the crazy car jumping stuff, and what not. Well that's what happened to me anyway. Glad you like it.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Bebpo on April 26, 2009, 01:07:20 PM: Quote from: Himuro on April 26, 2009, 01:21:39 AM
Got Jak 2 and I don't think I've ever played a 3d action platformer this good, like ever.

3d platformers are easy as shit. But this is awesome. The mix between shooting and platforming make it a winner. The only bad part of the game is the actual city. Traveling across one point of the map to the other is tedious. There should be a quick teleport system.

Yes! Glad you are digging it. Jak 2 rules.

I really should play Jak 3 one of these days.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on April 26, 2009, 01:26:55 PM: Quote from: Bebpo on April 26, 2009, 01:07:20 PM
Quote from: Himuro on April 26, 2009, 01:21:39 AM
Got Jak 2 and I don't think I've ever played a 3d action platformer this good, like ever.

3d platformers are easy as shit. But this is awesome. The mix between shooting and platforming make it a winner. The only bad part of the game is the actual city. Traveling across one point of the map to the other is tedious. There should be a quick teleport system.

Yes! Glad you are digging it. Jak 2 rules.

I really should play Jak 3 one of these days.

you should, Jak 3 way better than the second game. I'm not a big fan of Jak 2 and I still think Jak 3 is great.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 26, 2009, 01:35:57 PM: Jak 3 is much easier, the wasteland isn't that fun, the story isn't as engaging i thought, and overall it was kinda boring.

As a huge Jak 2 fan, i was excited for 3, and 3 does have some really good graphics, but i didn't even bother finishing it. So, yeah. For me, Jak 3 is nowhere near being "way better" than the 2nd one.

The fact that someone that didn't like Jak 2 that much, really liked Jak 3, sorta says a lot too. They are kinda different...
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on April 26, 2009, 02:05:20 PM: Except they aren't different. That core platforming/shooting gameplay is just a refined version of what Jak 2 had. It's only easier in that the game is more forgiving with checkpoints and has tighter controls. The pacing is also much, much better in Jak 3 than it was in Jak 2.

And I did like Jak 2, I just thought it had problems. Jak 3 mostly fixes those problems and is a better game for it. Only thing it says about me is that I prefer games that are better put together. Also, I guess I don't put as much importance on the story on the story of this type of game that you do.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: WrikaWrek on April 26, 2009, 03:17:01 PM: Jak 3 is Jak 2, but without cojones.

Boring, easy, lack of personality, basically a low effort sequel. They just went "Give the pussies what they want, fuck it". Blah
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 26, 2009, 05:56:35 PM: from what swaggaz says I should enjoy Jak 3 quite a bit too
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 26, 2009, 06:18:23 PM: Does Jak 3 show your life at ALL FUCKING TIMES unlike Jak 2? :maf
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Darunia on April 26, 2009, 06:25:20 PM: Quote from: Himuro on April 26, 2009, 06:18:23 PM
Does Jak 3 show your life at ALL FUCKING TIMES unlike Jak 2? :maf

only when you get hit
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Joe Molotov on April 26, 2009, 06:52:37 PM: The only things that I thought were better about Jak 3 was that there wasn't as much distinguished mentally-challenged in-town driving, and it was like 10 hours long instead of 20, so that's like 50% less crappiness right there.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: bork on April 26, 2009, 09:46:02 PM: Quote from: Powerslave on April 25, 2009, 10:51:42 AM

You missed out on the greatest 3D platformers ever made.

Crash 2 and 3 that is.

LOL.

Was never that big on 3D platformers though. Didn't even like Mario 64. Jumping Flash! 1 and 2 rocked; wish more games had been like it was. I hate collect-a-thon garbage, but JF! did it right with its stage size and number of carrots/muu-muus needed to go to the next level.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Tucah on April 26, 2009, 09:55:03 PM: Fuck, Jumping Flash was amazing, both of them were awesome. Whatever happened to that developer, did they do anything besides JF1/2?
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: chronovore on April 26, 2009, 10:26:56 PM: Quote from: am nintenho on April 25, 2009, 01:08:07 AM
The GTAish parts of the second game sucked. The driving felt wonky and it took forever to get around.

...And it was way too easy to get police attention, I recall. I don't remember if it was Too Many Cops, or just winging some pedestrian, or what, but every other minute I was on the run from police and it seemed very difficult to lose my Wanted level. Couple that with nasty, mean checkpoints in the missions, and I just lost interest. I wanted to play a game, not get kicked in the balls repeatedly.

Quote from: Tucah on April 26, 2009, 09:55:03 PM
Fuck, Jumping Flash was amazing, both of them were awesome. Whatever happened to that developer, did they do anything besides JF1/2?

The engine was used to make the first Ghost in the Shell videogame, where you're controlling a fuchikoma...
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 27, 2009, 01:51:04 AM: Fuck, I love this game.

Shame about the shitty overworld, the police, and vehicle controls, because those are the only bad things to me. :(

Daxter is friggin hilarious.

Blonde elf chick: Oh Daxter, you're so amazing.
Daxter: Yeah, I know. Scratch me there.

So smooth. So PIMP. So...orange!
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: bork on April 27, 2009, 05:18:42 AM: Quote from: Tucah on April 26, 2009, 09:55:03 PM
Fuck, Jumping Flash was amazing, both of them were awesome. Whatever happened to that developer, did they do anything besides JF1/2?

The developer is Exact, and they went on to make the Ghost In The Shell PSOne game (Which also rocked) and then both Fantavision games on PS2. No idea what they made following those.

There was a third JF! game only-released in Japan called "Robbit Mon Dieu," but it was made by a different developer (Sugar & Rockets, IIRC). I imported it and thought it sucked. Sold it off the same day I got it. :lol Don't remember the thread, but someone on GAF posted some screens of an Exact game made on some J-PC that pre-dates JF! but had similar game play.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: demi on April 27, 2009, 05:21:36 AM: Sly cooper > Jak & Daxter
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 28, 2009, 01:40:27 AM: I'm close to beating Jak 2 and this is the best damn 3d action platformer i've ever played.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Darunia on April 28, 2009, 05:41:59 AM: Fuck it, ima replay II too

damn you and your thread
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on April 28, 2009, 10:39:02 AM: yeah, this thread is making me want to replay the games. I'm gonna just do Jak and Daxter, Jak 3, Sly Cooper, an Rayman 2. I'm in the mood for 3D platformers.

and again that Jak 3 isn't like the MMX5 to MMX4 where they made it completely easy. It's not as difficult as Jak 2 but most of that comes from removing the frustrating parts of Jak 2.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on April 28, 2009, 11:58:36 AM: jak 3 had some horrendous mandatory racing bits as i recall
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: chronovore on April 28, 2009, 10:30:51 PM: If you count "drive this vehicle from Point A to Point B in less than this amount of time" as a race, then there were bad races in Jak 2 as well. Except you could bump into cops during them, making them even less fun than a mandatory race.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Then again, I've not played since it launched, so I could be spouting my usual senile mistakes.
[close]
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 29, 2009, 02:20:45 AM: Jak 3 is rockin
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Smooth Groove on April 29, 2009, 02:27:48 AM: I beat Jak 1 and 2 but never finished the 3rd. I didn't finish the last game because it was too much like the 2nd one.

I was lukewarm about Jak 1 but really liked Jak 2. Jak 1 was harmless but unspectacular.

Jak 2 had some horrible bits (minigames, openworld travelling) but the platforming on certain levels were spectacular. Also, Jak 2 looked way better than the first. It's like they doubled the resolution. Everything just looked more crisp.

The most frustrating thing in Jak 2 was crashing into pedestrians and having the cops go nuts on you. If that doesn't bother you, then you should check it out.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 29, 2009, 02:52:49 AM: I beat Jak 2 yesterday, started Jak 3. Popped in Jak 1 to see if my opinion on it had changed at all. it's decent but unremarkable.

Jak 2 is such a step up. The only problem I have with it is the overworld. If it had 3's small and tight overworld and fun vehicles it'd be so much better.

Still, Jak 2 and 3 are the funnest 3d platformers I've ever played. I'm not big on 3d platformers, but these two just click.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Bebpo on April 29, 2009, 02:52:24 PM: Quote from: Himuro on April 29, 2009, 02:52:49 AM
I beat Jak 2 yesterday, started Jak 3. Popped in Jak 1 to see if my opinion on it had changed at all. it's decent but unremarkable.

Jak 2 is such a step up. The only problem I have with it is the overworld. If it had 3's small and tight overworld and fun vehicles it'd be so much better.

Still, Jak 2 and 3 are the funnest 3d platformers I've ever played. I'm not big on 3d platformers, but these two just click.

So the vehicles in Jak 3 are better?
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on April 30, 2009, 07:44:47 PM: The sand buggies are 1000 x more fun to use, which is high, since that number is zero in Jak 2 hoverboard being the exception.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on May 11, 2009, 11:58:31 PM: Beat Jak 3.

Okay, I'll review 2 and 3 in this post. 1 is next.

Jak 2

(http://i39.tinypic.com/m7qpg1.jpg)

+ Excellent art direction
+ Good Music

+ Amazing platforming. One Problem I have with 3d platformers in general is that they feel like they lack the precision that 2d platformers require. I'm usually able to forgive this because some 3d platformers rely on figuring out how to get a specific location, rather than the actual platforming itself. Jak 2 stands as one of the few, if not the first 3d platformer I've played that required the timing and precision of a 2d platformer.

An example of this is the roll move. By pressing the jump button while rolling Jak can pull off a long jump move. Thing is, this move is a specific distance when pulled off. It can be long and some sections of the game require exact precision to be able to make it. You'll see an extremely thin log floating in lava that's a good distance away. This is your clue to long jump, but if your position is off just a bit you'll fall into the lava. When you do hit that log, it immediately sinks into the lava, requiring you to jump to the next log. Whhops, that log is far as hell away so you're going to long jump off a thin ass log while it submerges into lava!

Jak 2's platforming is balls against the wall. I never thought I would ever play a 3d platformer this good. Although the Mario Sunshine warp levels are certainly close, there's always something missing when I play a 3d platformer. Sly is too brain dead and easy, it almost impossible to miss a jump. Ratchet implies too much emphasis on blowing crap up, Spyro is too easy, Crash is great fun but not what I'm looking for, Mario 64 is okay, Mario Sunshine isn't exactly a high benchmark for 3d platforming either. Mirror's Edge, Jak 2, Jumping Flash, Jet Set Radio, Jet Set Radio Future, and arguably Portal stand as the few 3d platformers to ever impress me on a core level.

+ Excellent level design. Every level is designed from the ground up to be gone through repeatedly, you just need certain abilities to get through them. Each and every time you do an old level in Jak 2, you're going to be doing something new or going to a new place you haven't been before. This gives each of the levels a feeling that they're deep, vast labyrinths, and usually...they are. Unlike Mario 64, which requires players to go through the same level repeatedly to get stars without really switching it up, Jak 2 constantly adds something new to its levels so not to leave the player bored with repetition.

+ Great action. There are only 4 weapons, and each weapon has its use. Unlike Ratchet games, which have mostly filler weapons you will use 2-3 times in the game, Jak 2 employs the quality > quantity rule. Further more, the actual shooting is strategic. Due to the general lack of checkpoints and sometimes ammo, you're going to need to make every shot count. This is where Jak 2 succeeds; melee is just as productive as weapons. This gives almost each and every encounter multiple ways to complete them. The people who feel it is a shooter are dead wrong. I love how even fights with small time enemies can be interesting. One of my favorite enemies in the game is a Metal head in the Haven Forest (I think?) that uses a shield. Your guns will not do any damage to this guy when his shield is up, but he'll pop his head out when he goes on the offensive. You have to time a roll, roll out of the way of his shots, and stick an energy beam up his ass to kill him without getting hit.

Ultimately I find the action to be far more satisfying than Ratchet games or other 3d action platformers I've played. For me it's about as satisfying as whacking enemies in Rocket Knight Adventures or managing to clear a Mega Man stage without getting hit once. The way Jak 2 manages to blend its shooting elements with the platforming should be praised.

+ High difficulty, low checkpoint ratio. The game almost feels oldschool in nature. More 3d platformers should be like Jak 2. I hate being babied. I hate that 3d platformers are so dull and easy. Timing is rarely important in 3d platformers, they don't require precision either, and the few 3d action platformers out there pale compared to the best of their 2d counterparts. Jak 2 is an exception.

+ I like the story. It's not great or memorable or anything, but boy howdy it's fun. As someone who likes time travel stories I definitely got some enjoyment out of Jak 2's story. What helps the story is the writing and humor. Daxter is definitely the star of the show, whereas in Jak 1 he's just annoying all the time and never funny like, ever.

- Big open world environment that detracts from the game. It's easily the worst thing about the game and it adds nothing of value to the game at all. You have to travel 5-10 minutes out of your to a mission when it should be just 30 seconds or 1 minute at most. I understand that ND wanted to make it immersive and stuff, but they failed hard.

- The vehicles all suck. Even the hoverboard can be annoying since you lose health if you run into someone (which will happen a lot).

- The Krimson Guard are balls. Accidentally run into their car? Accidentally hit one? Accidentally BUMP into one? WELP, LET'S CHASE THE PLAYER FOR 10 MINUTES. Terrible. Awful. Dreadful.

Honestly, the only bad things about the game are GTA influences like the overworld. These things do not add to the game at all and take more away from than they do anything to improve it.

It's a shame because I feel that a more streamlined hub world (the one thing I think 3d platformers *do* do right) would have made it a more high quality game. However, it's not so much of a negative that it takes away from the fact Jak 2 is the best 3d action platformer I've played.

Rating: A-minus, definitely ps2 top 10 material. Shame I didn't play it until recently.

--------

Jak 3

(http://i41.tinypic.com/1il5ht.jpg)

+ Great art direction. AGAIN.
+ Good music.
+ An insane amount of secrets and unlockables. If I didn't have Jak 1 and the Final Fantasy games on my plate I'd try to get them all.

+ The inclusion of light Jak is something I really enjoyed. Giving the player defense skills like healing powers, the ability to slow down time, or even fly went extremely well with me, the last two in particular since they make for some fun platforming sections.

+ The vehicles don't control like ass anymore, the dune buggies at least. While in town of the wastelands you can also control these dragon things that make travel less bothersome than it already is.

+ Roller-coaster like pacing due to the fact you're not traveling from one mission to the next anymore. If there's one thing that Jak 3 does better than Jak 2, this is it.

+ Good platforming, when there is platforming.

+ Good balance in difficulty. It's not hard or easy but it's right in the middle. It's a nice spot.

+ I laughed out loud for serious many a time playing this game. Daxter's obsession with pants, the ending, a bunch of crap. It's a funny, cleverly written game.

+/- I liked the new characters like Damus. He was a good character, shame he was under used. This brings me to the story. In Jak 2 the story was simple but it was cohesive: you're infused with dark eco so you join a rebellion to help get the current ruler out off the royale seat while taking on Metalheads that threaten the city. In there somewhere is a time travel story, betrayals, and awesome. Jak 3's story is not nearly as cohesive. I don't know what it is, but one moment I'm exiled from Haven City only to scrounge in the Wasteland, the next I'm saving Haven City's ass, and then all of a sudden I'm in the Wasteland again. It entirely lacked focus. I would have preferred if the entire game took place in the Wasteland as it's such an awesome setting and Mad Max rocks.

Furthermore, it's really hard to care about the situation. In 2 you had a goal right from the beginning of the game and you knew who the villain was. You WANTED to kick his ass. I personally formed a rivalry with the villains in Jak 2, I thought they were assholes. In Jak 3 it's like,"Yeah, let's resurrect that one small fry from 2 that everyone thought died and make him the main villain." Okayyyyy.

+/- The game has more weapons. Oh wait, one of the best things about Jak 2 was that there were no throwaway weapons, there was something useful for any situation. Just like Ratchet games there were a lot of cool weapons, but they weren't particularly useful. They were useful, but they used a ridiculous amount of ammo in order to be used so I ran with the default choices.

- Overly emphasis on shooting in general. Jak 2 struck a beautiful balance between action and platforming. The actual platforming in Jak 3 makes up maybe 25% of the game. It has considerably less platforming.

- While the vehicles control better in Jak 3, it feels like vehicle missions, on rails missions, and shooting missions make up at least 75% of the game.

- The level design is a big step down from Jak 2. You no longer have to utilize every single move in your roster to get by, the levels lack that large feeling they had before, and and the game's overly emphasis on shooting in almost all situations make things less interesting to me. The mission design in particular is considerably worse than 2's. One example is the fight against the giant laser thing at the end of the game. You're chasing it on a dingy buggy, on terrain that is clearly not designed for such a battle. The game suddenly thinks it's Shadow of the fucking Colossus.

Filler mission and bad levels in general fill up the game such as the Pac Man stage, or the on rails stages with a cursor that is far too slow. That said, the variety is high. It's just that the actual level designs aren't that good to begin with for the most part.

- The platforming no longer requires precision or even timing now. It now feels like a generic 3d platformer. Instead of feeling like a 3d action platformer with racing elements or anything like Jak 2 did, it feels more like an action adventure with platforming elements just like Ratchet does.

Ultimately Jak 3 pales compared to 2 for me. I don't understand why or how some think it's better than 2, but different strokes I guess. I think the only things it does better than 2 are the streamlined overworld and vehicles. It feels like naughty Dog read the negative remarks about 2's difficulty and stuff and dropped their balls, because the game feels inferior in almost every way to Jak 2 for me and the final result is a game that feels more like Jak 2-lite than a true sequel.

Then again, the game feels rushed. I wonder if the game would be higher quality if ND had it in the oven a little bit longer. It's not surprising though, as Sly 3 and Ratchet 3 are my least favorite games in their respective series too (Deadlocked aside).

Good game, just not what I'm looking for.

Rating: B-minus
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Bebpo on May 12, 2009, 01:52:13 AM: Sounds like we're on the same page as to why Jak 2 was awesome and most platformers are zzzzzzz without their strict timings and forcing the utilization of all possible moves. Did you play Ratchet PS3 yet? I would think you would HATE the platforming bits in the game (for being too easy and thus no fun at all) like I do.

Not gonna hurry to play Jak 3 anytime soon it seems.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on May 12, 2009, 01:55:25 AM: Ratchet Tools of Destruction has platforming? could have fooled me
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on May 12, 2009, 03:12:06 AM: Quote from: Bebpo on May 12, 2009, 01:52:13 AM
Sounds like we're on the same page as to why Jak 2 was awesome and most platformers are zzzzzzz without their strict timings and forcing the utilization of all possible moves. Did you play Ratchet PS3 yet? I would think you would HATE the platforming bits in the game (for being too easy and thus no fun at all) like I do.

Not gonna hurry to play Jak 3 anytime soon it seems.

I've played the demo. It seems like Going Commando except they're not even attempting to be creative like they were with that game. Then again it was a demo but user impressions tell me I'm right on the money. It's like they're just shelling them out now.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Darunia on May 12, 2009, 07:13:19 AM: the only thing new in Tools of Destruction was a jello-platform shooter. All the other weapons and gadgets are complete rehashes of weapons featured in the other games. It's an extremely lazy sequel. Franchise hasn't changed a bit since Going Commando.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: Himu on May 14, 2009, 04:03:07 AM: Beat Jak 1. I've now completed the entire series (daxter included) aside from Jak X.

Jak and Daxter

(http://i44.tinypic.com/2dlox2v.jpg)

+ Excellent art design as usual. I just want to explore the world because it's so bright and colorful and wow, same way I felt about Jak 2 and 3.
+ Best music in the series by far. Fuck this game has badass music. Sample here (http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8IXNVKnwLA0)
+ Some of the later levels really remind me of Jak 2. They are deep, dungeon labyrinths will tons of things to collect and find. It doesn't feel as linear as Jak 3 either. There's multiple paths, and I found myself actually getting lost in some of the later levels.

+ There's a lot to do in the game, and the mission variety is really good. Typically in platformers where you collect a group of objects, your goals rarely ever vary or differentiate from one another. In Jak and Daxter, every single Power Cell you get is gotten in a specific way. Some are cleverly hidden, requiring some thinking to gain, some are placed in areas that you'd have to be dead pressed to find (like an area in Snowy Mountains that's completely obscured by trees that you can only see by examining the area fully). This makes the game endless entertaining. I liked it all so much I managed to get over 100 power cells and see the bonus ending.

+ Difficulty. While the beginning of the game I felt the game was mindless, about halfway way the level design started to really pick up. I wouldn't say the game is particularly difficult, but there are definitely spots that left me scratching my head. I thought there was a really good balance.

+ The level designs and platforming, as has been said, in the later levels are fantastic. I think some of them employ the trademark 3d platformer "how do I get over there?" mentality pretty well. I think that some of the later levels are almost on par with Jak 2's best. My highlight is definitely the Lost Precursor City, in terms of platforming and level design. What a startling level.

+ Eco. Similarly to Jak 2, every single ability or skill is not wasted space. This is especially true with the Eco in Jak and Daxter as the very core of the levels are all designed around the use of the various colors and types. Light Eco allows for Jak to gain speed and open specific doors/switches, red Eco allows Jak to dish out fire damage to his enemies, yellow Eco gives Jak the ability to shoot fireballs to destroy terrain or even chests that can only be opened by them. By designing the levels, puzzles, and some of the platforming around this feature, the game's consistently has balance. Typically I find power ups in platformers to be silly gimmicks - Mario games are a good example, so are Sonic games, but in Jak and Daxter they have an actual use and importance.

+ The bosses were awesome. The normal enemies were pretty much all peanuts, especially compared to the enemies you face in Jak 2 and 3.

- The game is far too short. I usually don't think that's a bad thing, but with a game like this I wish it'd last longer because I had one hell of a ride. Since the beginning of the game's levels aren't all that interesting to begin with, I definitely wish it were longer so I could see more levels like the final stage, Snowy Mountain, the Moggy Swamp, and the Lost Precursor City.

- Lack of subtitles and cutscene skip feature is a negative thing to me. I'm especially miffed by the lack of subtitles since most of my game playing is at night when folks are sleep and I like to play my games in solitude so not to wake anyone up.

Summary: Excellent Mario 64 clone that I find more enjoyable than pretty much any 3d Mario. Naughty Dog clearly gets it, or at least these Jak games have clicked with me more than any other cherished 3d platformer series. I'm simply not the biggest 3d platformer fan out there, but I found all three Jak games to be high quality and fun as living fuck.

Rating: B+

Series rank: Jak 2 > Jak and Daxter > Jak 3 > Daxter

I'm split on Jak and Daxter: The Last Frontier or whatever. On one hand I'm glad they're making a new Jak game, on the other, it's not by Naughty Dog. If Daxter's any indication, it won't even be on the same level as the Jak trilogy, but I'll probably enjoy because I love the world and setting and characters so damn much.

I enjoyed Sly Cooper, Ratchet and Clank, and Jak and Daxter series tremendously. I find all three games in their respective series to be extremely high quality well made games, but the Jak games worked for me in ways Ratchet and Sly never did.

Quote from: a slime appears on May 12, 2009, 11:52:07 AM
Ehh, I thought Jak 2 was incredibly shitty and easily the worst "major" platformer of last gen. Ratchet & Clank and Sly Cooper were miles better than the Jak series. I can't even fathom why people prefer Jak. To each their own, I guess.

They have better platforming.
Title: Re: Jak and Daxter series, thoughts?
Post by: cool breeze on May 14, 2009, 11:07:28 AM: Jak the Lost Frontier isn't by the guys who made Daxter. It is being made by the guys who did the two PSP Ratchet games.