THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Human Snorenado on May 04, 2009, 10:07:15 AM
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I for one can't wait for the portion of science classes going forward where we weigh women against a duck to discover if they're witches or not. (http://www.ocregister.com/articles/corbett-religion-court-2387684-farnan-selna)
SANTA ANA – A Mission Viejo high school history teacher violated the First Amendment by disparaging Christians during a classroom lecture, a federal judge ruled today.
James Corbett, a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School, referred to Creationism as “religious, superstitious nonsense” during a 2007 classroom lecture, denigrating his former Advanced Placement European history student, Chad Farnan.
The decision is the culmination of a 16-month legal battle between Corbett and Farnan – a conflict the judge said should remind teachers of their legal “boundaries” as public school employees.
"Corbett states an unequivocal belief that Creationism is 'superstitious nonsense,'" U.S. District Court Judge James Selna said in a 37-page ruling released from his Santa Ana courtroom. "The court cannot discern a legitimate secular purpose in this statement, even when considered in context."
Well then.
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stupid fucking american religious nuts
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The case should be thrown out. It's obvious the judge used his own personal beliefs in his decision.
smh
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a 20-year teacher at Capistrano Valley High School,
Am I the only one that finds that odd?
He's been teaching there for 20 years? What's odd?
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Don't see the problem here.
In a December 2007 lawsuit, Farnan, then a sophomore, accused Corbett of repeatedly promoting hostility toward Christians in class and advocating "irreligion over religion" in violation of the First Amendment's establishment clause.
The establishment clause prohibits the government from making any law "respecting an establishment of religion" and has been interpreted by U.S. courts to also prohibit government employees from displaying religious hostility.
You people do want folks to keep their religious opinions to themselves, right? Or does that only apply to people who are actually religious?
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No, I want science teachers to be able to tell the truth- that creationism is, in the teacher's words, "religious, superstitious nonsense".
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PROOF?!
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teacher should have copped to some protestant religion, then he could have said all kinds of shit while still holding the upper hand.
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I guess the teacher forgot he was in America, Land of the Jesus and Home of the Christian Fundamentalists.
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ITT we sue people who tell the truth.
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It's odd that the court wasn't able to find a legitimate secular purpose for his statement, and really didn't explain why it couldn't. The secular purpose was to educate students about teachers who bring non-scientific beliefs into a science classroom. Maybe he could have phrased his statement differently, but the purpose would have been just the same.
The teacher made other comments regarding religion that were far more incendiary; nevertheless, the court somehow found that those comments did not violate the student's first amendment rights.
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Man, I sure do hope that God is real and is everything those books say he is. It would be hilarious.
Yeah, but EB would be left in the Rapture. We would have a Mark of the Beast thread for how fast we could sell our souls to Satan.
Either that, or we would all convert and be one of the 144,000 followers.
Christbore? Doesn't work as well.
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Thats what happens when you get sued by JESUS! I would totally watch a show about jesus being a lawyer suing atheist and people that put christmas trees in their house.
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It's odd that the court wasn't able to find a legitimate secular purpose for his statement, and really didn't explain why it couldn't. The secular purpose was to educate students about teachers who bring non-scientific beliefs into a science classroom. Maybe he could have phrased his statement differently, but the purpose would have been just the same.
The teacher made other comments regarding religion that were far more incendiary; nevertheless, the court somehow found that those comments did not violate the student's first amendment rights.
Agreed. I've had biology teachers walk a tight rope while discussion creationism, trying their hardest not to laugh/insult whoever asked the question
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All they have to do is say that there's no scientific basis for creationism, and we're in science class.
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I once laughed really loud when someone in my professional ethics class said "the bible says" during an argument, I don't even remember what the argument was, I think it was about abortions.
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He's my little brother's history teacher. I think he carpools with the kid whose parents sued, too.
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For the record, I believe in both creationism and evolution.
The funny thing is that parts of both theories are compatible. I mean, got to explain that big bang somehow. But there is no leeway with the fundamentalists, although creationism seems to adapt natural selection to some point from what I've seen.
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maybe it had no context because he is a european history teacher and not a science teacher
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My beliefs are basic Deism
-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.
Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.
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There was context. Corbett made the statement as a student newspaper adviser, explaining to his class his reason for refusing to give a creationist-teacher space in his school newspaper.
At least I think that's what happened; the judge doesn't write clear prose.
Corbett also told his students that, in response to a request to give Peloza space in the newspaper to present his point of view, Corbett stated,
Remove the prepositional phrase and we get: "Corbett also told his students that Corbett stated . . ."
Huh?
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PROOF?!
Link plz.
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Is there a GAF thread about this yet? If not I'd love to start it. Gotta pad my "threads started by..." with some high reply counts.
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Is there a GAF thread about this yet? If not I'd love to start it. Gotta pad my "threads started by..." with some high reply counts.
That would be . . . a trainwreck.
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My beliefs are basic Deism
-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.
Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.
Have you been making-out with ToxicAdam?
You claim that something cannot come from nothing, but you then exclude God from that rule. A being that is capable of creating the universe would itself have to be incredibly complex, complex enough to require a pretty good explanation, too.
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tacos
the universe is the shell, then the galaxies are the meat
the energy which drives all things are the lettuce and tomato
the cheese is delicious
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No wonder I love tacos.
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My beliefs are basic Deism
-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.
Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.
Have you been making-out with ToxicAdam?
You claim that something cannot come from nothing, but you then exclude God from that rule. A being that is capable of creating the universe would itself have to be incredibly complex, complex enough to require a pretty good explanation, too.
Who's to say that the higher being isn't someone who makes several universes? I know when I finish a story or a painting that I wouldn't endlessly tweak the same story or painting for years. If there is a God, he isn't the George Lucas of deities.
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Thor>>>>>god.
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I would worship Thor before the christian God, yes. Vikings are so hardcore.
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i'm a genius genius, i believe in god and i believe that god believes in claude
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well yeah
claude exists
i mean, where do you think rain comes from?
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My beliefs are basic Deism
-God exists
-He pointed his finger and said "bang" a few billion years ago
-He really doesn't care anymore.
Since there is really no explanation how something came from nothing, a higher power seems logical. Other than that, people need to make something out of their own life rather than depending on a deity to do it for them.
Have you been making-out with ToxicAdam?
You claim that something cannot come from nothing, but you then exclude God from that rule. A being that is capable of creating the universe would itself have to be incredibly complex, complex enough to require a pretty good explanation, too.
Are you talking in the lines of 'where did God came from'?
Because if so, it's a faulty question on itself because God created reality, all your logic and thinking capability and beginnings/endings himself.. so it is a 'inside the box' question actually. The box being the universe/reality. I think it's a pretty hard to grasp understanding but when it finally clicks then you look at things from a whole different angle.
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All they have to do is say that there's no scientific basis for creationism, and we're in science class.
But that's not what he said. It is fine to teach science in a science classroom, but you're not there to teach your theological positions.
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really? where does it say god created reality? did god tell you this? did he also tell you what reality is, doctor manhattan?
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as for the teacher, he did the right thing, which is condemn ignorance. creationism isn't a plausible explanation. if i was teaching a class whose fundamental purpose is to impart an understanding of a process centered on empirical observation, experimentation, and analysis, and some dipshit kid says WOW HEY A MAGIC SPACEMAN DID ALL THIS LOL READ THE BOOK i would have him ritually strangled on my desk, or barring that at least completely humiliated for being a 'tard. by pre-empting the clueless shitheels with the announcement that creationism is delusional, he probably saved the life of a kid he would have had to mercilessly mock and/or strangle.
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Is there any reason to give creationism more play than Holocaust denialism in an academic setting, other than "Well, it's an intrinsic part of a lot of people's cultural identity."
I'm all for bleeding heart multiculturalism and stuff, but c'mon.
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tacos
the universe is the shell, then the galaxies are the meat
the energy which drives all things are the lettuce and tomato
the cheese is delicious
this is very similar to Americurry's Curry Creation Myth (http://www.americurry.com/otisu/)
just as many of the older religions share a universal flood myth, our new creation stories share the belief that cheese is delicious
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Are you talking in the lines of 'where did God came from'?
Because if so, it's a faulty question on itself because God created reality, all your logic and thinking capability and beginnings/endings himself.. so it is a 'inside the box' question actually. The box being the universe/reality. I think it's a pretty hard to grasp understanding but when it finally clicks then you look at things from a whole different angle.
You are begging the question, sir.
But that's not what he said. It is fine to teach science in a science classroom, but you're not there to teach your theological positions.
nah, it's a scientific position. To stretch it, it's a philosophical position.
Is there any reason to give creationism more play than Holocaust denialism in an academic setting, other than "Well, it's an intrinsic part of a lot of people's cultural identity."
I'm all for bleeding heart multiculturalism and stuff, but c'mon.
Unlike Holocaust denial, it's not motivated by hatred. Well, okay, maybe hatred and disdain for education, but . . . not ethnic/racial hatred.
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inb4 Hollywood has another meltdown
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tacos
the universe is the shell, then the galaxies are the meat
the energy which drives all things are the lettuce and tomato
the cheese is delicious
this is very similar to Americurry's Curry Creation Myth (http://www.americurry.com/otisu/)
just as many of the older religions share a universal flood myth, our new creation stories share the belief that cheese is delicious
oh man, i am totally going to go-go curry this fucking week
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have you ever been?
go go curry is TEH BOMB, I went to the one in Akihabara last time I was in Japan
GET CHEESE TOPPING
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Cheese on curry? THAT DOES NOT MAKE SENSE.
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Cheese on curry is the foundation stone of my belief in a benevolent higher power
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So what you're saying is that cheese on curry is like the anti comic sans?
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have you ever been?
go go curry is TEH BOMB, I went to the one in Akihabara last time I was in Japan
GET CHEESE TOPPING
never heard of it
the only japanese places that my gf knows of are all obviously staffed by Chinese or Thai people that ordering anything like Katsudon or Tonkatsu is just a nightmare of mediocrity and heavy handed flavor waiting to happen.
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go go curry is hyper authentic, you will luv it
GET THE CHEESE
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i'll do so.
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I will not take a leap of faith into a bowl of cheese and curry.
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Oh hello! First of all, Computer Jones is right: cheese is both delicious and the only creation myth that I subscribe to.
Also, from reading this story, does anyone else find it ironic that he was being sued under the "establishment clause"?
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KOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOHHHHHHHHHHHHLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEERRRRRRRRRRRRRRRRR!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
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THE INTERNET'S CHRIS KOHLER, OF WIRED.COM?
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Well, I haven't actually READ Evilbore in all that time, but somebody pointed me to the Americurry reference, and I couldn't help but pimp my side project (and point out the irony in the original story).
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I will never forgive Kohler for his failure to credit Masashi Hamauzu in his Samurai Legend Musashi review :maf
not for as long as I live
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You should participate more, we are better than that other side.
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Start talking about the Beatles: Rock Band or get out.
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Unlike Holocaust denial, it's not motivated by hatred. Well, okay, maybe hatred and disdain for education, but . . . not ethnic/racial hatred.
Both Holocaust and Creationalism are rooted in fear of the unknown though.
Yeah, they're both caused by ignorance--sometimes willful ignorance--but only the former is caused by malice.
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I'm not really giving credence to Creationism here. The earth being created in seven days is preposterous. The earth being 5000 years old is ridiculous.
I'm just not quite ready to think that everything that ever existed is a cosmic accident.
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I'm not really giving credence to Creationism here. The earth being created in seven days is preposterous. The earth being 5000 years old is ridiculous.
I'm just not quite ready to think that everything that ever existed is a cosmic accident.
You're not special; you were an accident. But mommy and daddy still love you.
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Do creationists really think the earth is only 5000 y/o?
Young Earth Creationists do. They base their estimate of 6000 years on a kind of Biblical genealogy. lol
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I'm not sure if Christians have this belief or not, but Muslims believe that the lifespan of people (and their sizes too) were very different than it is today. For example it is said that Noah died around the age of 1000 (yes, 3 zeros) and Adam lived twice as much and was 22 feet tall (Kinda like reverse evolution lol).
With this in mind they believe that the earth is much, much older than that.
Yeah, that's in the Christian Bible. (I typed Christian Bale at first; I need sleep)
Malice yes, but founded in what they thought was scientifically sound at the time (social darwinism).
Antisemitism was obviously not founded by Social Darwinism: It has thousands of years of history. And 20th century German antisemitism can easily be traced back through the Middle Ages. It has always been based on bigotry and hatred, not on a mistaken theory. Social Darwinism just aided pre-existing prejudices, and probably prejudices in the Anglo world more than Germany.
It's doubtful that Social Darwinism is causing today's antisemitism either. For example, Canada's most well-known antisemite, Jim Keegstra, is a creationist.
Unlike creationism (to a point) which has been proven wrong for a while now.
Until Darwin, creationism was the only game in town, based on the only, simple explanation at the time people could comprehend. It really wasn't displaced until fairly recently.
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I'm not really giving credence to Creationism here. The earth being created in seven days is preposterous. The earth being 5000 years old is ridiculous.http://www.evilbore.com/forum/index.php?action=post;quote=846608;topic=30074.45;sesc=9443fb599e9b6cabf63605f5d03743e4
I'm just not quite ready to think that everything that ever existed is a cosmic accident.
There's multiple types of creationism. Young earth, completely bible literal is the type used by those seeking to piss on it. There is also the difference in arguing origin theories of earth to arguing against evolution entirely.
Making polarizing and immature statements like the teacher did only breeds a cultural war that creates division, grouping and closed minds, which is the exact opposite of a good learning environment. On my campus, this war is playing out and I'm fearful it will not only lead to division by belief, but division by those races and cultures that are predominately Christian from those whom are not. All because people want to fight and vilify the other side with demeaning words instead of discussing ideas. Both sides act with a 'if they would only realize' attitude, as though we're dealing with things we can easily know.
We are brewing the same cultural wars that tear apart the nations we invade in pursuit of terrorists. And it bothers me.
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Yeah, considering your equation of internet trollerery to genocide or whatever, I'm not sure what bothers you is a good barometer for non-insane people to go by.
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We are brewing the same cultural wars that tear apart the nations we invade in pursuit of terrorists. And it bothers me.
Ah yes, "social behavior that makes me personally uncomfortable is morally equivalent to murder." I swear we've heard that one before.
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there are no fundamentally valid ideas in creationism/intelligent design. delusion may be the lubricant that keeps intellectual friction from tearing some folks' lives apart, but there's no reason the rational have to indulge it.