THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 03:30:47 PM

Title: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 03:30:47 PM
I'm a huge music fan. It seems there are few genres I don't like.

I like jazz (all types), r&b (including sub-genres like funk, soul, afrobeat whatever), electronic (techno, trance, house, drum and base, ambient), pop, rock, hip hop, classical, modern classical..

and there's so much music to explore I always get so damn overwhelmed.

So how do you do it EB?

Do you stick with one genre? If so, I can't blame you, because there's so many artists within one genre and it's easy to get overwhelmed with just that. Do you venture out and listen to more than a few genres? If so how do you do it?
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Human Snorenado on September 12, 2009, 03:39:33 PM
Working in music stores for years helped, as did going to a lot of shows.  And I mean a lot- I'd go to shows with friends to see bands I had never heard of and had no idea what kind of music they'd be playing.  Sometimes in college I'd go to downtown Athens with no plans and just wander into a club to hear a random, unknown band play.  Putting yourself in a position to have maximum exposure is really the key.  All of this was back before the internets was really widespread (at least in the beginning) so that didn't play too big a part in my musical education.

These days I'm much more set in my ways and out of the loop musically speaking.  I haven't been to a show in ages and that doesn't really bother me.  I don't keep up with new stuff and can barely be bothered to keep up with artists I already know and like.  It's all part of my over arcing theory on how the older you get, the less interested you are in things that used to be important to you.  Depressing but true in my experience.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 03:50:14 PM
That's so depressing, dude.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: rodi on September 12, 2009, 04:04:20 PM
There's nothing else for me to do here, but listen to music and fantasize.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Raban on September 12, 2009, 04:10:45 PM
I don't stick to one genre, I kind of proceed through all of music very naturally. Usually I'll find out about a band, latch on to them, read their history and inadvertently learn of their influences, listen to THAT artist and just continue on this chain. Lately I've been passing through artists/genres much slower than I had last year, but I'm trying to enjoy the music more and give it more time.

I never really thought of the world of music as overwhelming. I just take it in stride. It's kind of awesome to look back on the music I used to love as a kid and realize why I did, and remember how I used to utterly despise bands that I love to listen to now.

The best time I ever had musically was when I got back into WoW. Seriously the most fun I'd ever had in my life* was playing WoW to so many different soundtracks. At first thought, nothing about Beck, The Kinks, Elton John and Daft Punk seem similar, but all of them make me remember a distinct part of WoW when I listened to nothing but one of those artists while playing.

*Obvious hyperbole
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 12, 2009, 04:14:59 PM
I went to tons of shows in junior high, high school and college, and I spent pretty much all of my money on records. There was a period of time right after graduate school and before getting married where I would stop by Easy Street Records every single day on my way home.

That and I'm awesome. And a little obsessive.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: ch1nchilla on September 12, 2009, 04:20:41 PM
These days I listen to / acquire so much music that it's honestly hard for me to keep track of it all, and unless I really like an album I probably won't listen to it more than once. I also need to do a clean-up run, because whenever I put the iPod on shuffle I find myself skipping 25% or more of the songs.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 04:26:30 PM
I'm the same way chinchilla. The only albums I listen to more than once are the ones that make a GREAT first impression.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: fistfulofmetal on September 12, 2009, 04:27:40 PM
i only listen to heavy metal and classic rock. so it's pretty easy.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 12, 2009, 04:33:31 PM
I listen to individual tracks, if a track captures my interest enough I'll take a look at the album. The music I listen to is purely based on my mood.

I'm personally more of a smooth jazz, bossa nova listener but I definitely listen to a wide range of music. Here's my youtube page, check out my favorites (I basically use it for saving my favorite tracks)...

http://www.youtube.com/user/bluetsunami
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: twerd on September 12, 2009, 04:43:03 PM
I work for a radio station, so it's my job to digest a whole lot of music and pick the cream of the crop for radioplay. Beyond that, I've always loved listening to music, so I've slowly amassed a large library of tunes. Once you start to get a handle on what you like (even beyond genre conventions) you'll find ways to locate it, through online forums, record labels, websites. So even though I'm getting paid crumbs right now, I get plenty of free tickets to concerts, free CDs and promo materials sometimes weeks and/or months before their release, and I get to chill with people who share similar tastes and are, in general, pretty nice people.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Raban on September 12, 2009, 04:44:19 PM
These days I listen to / acquire so much music that it's honestly hard for me to keep track of it all, and unless I really like an album I probably won't listen to it more than once. I also need to do a clean-up run, because whenever I put the iPod on shuffle I find myself skipping 25% or more of the songs.

I'm the same way chinchilla. The only albums I listen to more than once are the ones that make a GREAT first impression.

I don't know how you guys can pass that music in the first place. I only keep albums that I know I'm going to listen to over and over again. I get rid of anything else. I don't really see the point in listening to an album once and never again. Going back to music again and again is almost more enjoyable than the music itself.

I work for a radio station, so it's my job to digest a whole lot of music and pick the cream of the crop for radioplay. Beyond that, I've always loved listening to music, so I've slowly amassed a large library of tunes. Once you start to get a handle on what you like (even beyond genre conventions) you'll find ways to locate it, through online forums, record labels, websites. So even though I'm getting paid crumbs right now, I get plenty of free tickets to concerts, free CDs and promo materials sometimes weeks and/or months before their release, and I get to chill with people who share similar tastes and are, in general, pretty nice people.

Pretty much. When I finally figured out specifically what kind of music I liked, it was really easy to expand on top of that.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 04:44:26 PM
Sounds like a cool job, twerd.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 04:46:21 PM
These days I listen to / acquire so much music that it's honestly hard for me to keep track of it all, and unless I really like an album I probably won't listen to it more than once. I also need to do a clean-up run, because whenever I put the iPod on shuffle I find myself skipping 25% or more of the songs.

I'm the same way chinchilla. The only albums I listen to more than once are the ones that make a GREAT first impression.

I don't know how you guys can pass that music in the first place. I only keep albums that I know I'm going to listen to over and over again. I get rid of anything else. I don't really see the point in listening to an album once and never again. Going back to music again and again is almost more enjoyable than the music itself.

Well, of course. I'm saying that I really only listen to stuff that makes a big impression on me. If I listen to an album once and I think it's okay, sometimes I just won't give it another chance and I'll get rid of it. Sometimes I'll give it another shot before it sinks in. Depends on my mood.

But of course the joy in music is listening to something you enjoy over and over.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 12, 2009, 04:52:26 PM
Himu, are you talking about stuff you just download or stuff you actually buy?
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: cool breeze on September 12, 2009, 04:59:43 PM
I hear a song I like, download album, if I like that, download band discography, if I like that, put it into regular rotation.  The starting point usually comes from clicking on a youtube link or whatever else.  Doesn't necessarily have to be a new band either.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Raban on September 12, 2009, 05:00:30 PM
I hear a song I like, download album, if I like that, download band discography, if I like that, put it into regular rotation.  The starting point usually comes from clicking on a youtube link or whatever else.  Doesn't necessarily have to be a new band either.

Yep.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 05:00:52 PM
Both. But the majority of stuff I'm willing to give a fair shake are the things  I actually buy, not always.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: rodi on September 12, 2009, 05:03:22 PM
I've actually been making an effort to buy songs off itunes instead of pirating them. Don't know why, but it's always nice to have the album artwork to look at while you listen to your favorite oldies.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 12, 2009, 05:07:13 PM
I've never bought anything off iTunes or any other digital music site. I'm one of those old dudes who cannot move away from physical media and supporting local record stores.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: cool breeze on September 12, 2009, 05:15:51 PM
I buy physical CDs every once in a while, but I will never, ever, ever, ever, ever, ever buy any music off iTunes.  Zune Pass seems like it's ok.  There isn't a legal way to download music that I'm comfortable with.  But CDs and are cool because I have a billion things that can play them, except for, like, Nintendo consoles.

The most recent CD I'll probably get, depending on the price, is the Gundam Rock CD by Andrew WK. Haven't heard the music yet, but the novelty of it is gold.

To clarify, I don't have a problem with digital downloading.  I use Steam, XBLA, PSN, Wiiware, iPhone/Touch apps, etc.  Digital downloads for music is still terrible.  You get a lot more flexibility, quality and, uh, "value" if you download it via torrent or ddl site.  Zune Pass seems alright because it's basically renting any song you want, like a giant radio station.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 05:18:35 PM
I have never bought anything off itunes. I have a zune and use that.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: rodi on September 12, 2009, 05:21:48 PM
I love ipods. They're so hot right now!
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 05:24:30 PM
I don't have an ipod. I've never had an apple product. Not sure if that's good or bad.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 12, 2009, 05:31:29 PM
Quote from: Himuro
I don't have an ipod. I've never had an apple product. Not sure if that's good or bad.

I've got an iPod, I just rip my CDs onto it.

The most recent CD I'll probably get, depending on the price, is the Gundam Rock CD by Andrew WK. Haven't heard the music yet, but the novelty of it is gold.

I picked it up at Kinokuniya in Seattle yesterday, it's a lot of fun.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Himu on September 12, 2009, 05:32:46 PM
I've the problem of ripping my cds and putting my entire collection on my zune.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 12, 2009, 05:35:09 PM
I love ipods. They're so hot right now!

iPods are out, Zunes are in!
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 12, 2009, 05:37:00 PM
I've the problem of ripping my cds and putting my entire collection on my zune.

It takes some time, but I typically rip CDs while I'm doing housework or something else.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: ch1nchilla on September 12, 2009, 05:40:15 PM
I use iTunes. If I really like something or want to support a particular artist/group, I'll go out and buy a physical copy of it. I only buy stuff from iTunes if I happen to have a gift card, or if I like a single I'll impulse buy it.

I love ipods. They're so hot right now!

iPods are out, Zunes are in!

IPODS ARE FUCKIN' OUT, ZUNE'S FUCKIN' IN.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 12, 2009, 05:43:57 PM
:rock
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: rodi on September 12, 2009, 05:53:29 PM
I use iTunes. If I really like something or want to support a particular artist/group, I'll go out and buy a physical copy of it. I only buy stuff from iTunes if I happen to have a gift card, or if I like a single I'll impulse buy it.

I love ipods. They're so hot right now!

iPods are out, Zunes are in!

IPODS ARE FUCKIN' OUT, ZUNE'S FUCKIN' IN.

My loyalty will pay off in the end!
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Phoenix Dark on September 12, 2009, 06:00:27 PM
I listen to so many different genres it's rather easy to listen to many things at once. Often a particular album will dominate my iPod time though. Like right now I've been listening to the remastered Beatles albums (Rubber Soul and now Revolver), while still listening to OBFCLII a lot. Last week I was listening to OBFCLII non-stop

Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: tiesto on September 12, 2009, 06:11:27 PM
Mostly stick to edm-related genres, listen to music at work (this is where the majority of music-listening comes into play), discover new music mostly via listening to amateur DJ mixes... also attend shows and concerts ever so often.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: The Fake Shemp on September 12, 2009, 09:06:06 PM
These days I'm much more set in my ways and out of the loop musically speaking.

I am also starting to develop this mentality. Am I dying inside?
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Beezy on September 12, 2009, 09:28:00 PM
I mainly listen to hip hop, reggae, and some R&B (Maxwell's album is like the only recent thing that I like). I've tried to branch out to rock a couple of times, but the only bands I found that I truly like are System of a Down, Muse (thanks Cajole), and Foo Fighters. *shrugs*

It's hard finding new music that I like. I usually find 2-3 albums that I like and play them for about 2 months before I'm able to find something else that I like.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Don Flamenco on September 12, 2009, 09:43:28 PM
used to go to shows every weekend + I've always been friends with musicians and other people who are obsessed with it, so I'm always listening to new stuff and finding out about more music. I don't actively seek out new groups that much these days, but I put on my ipod whenever possible and have a couple big music purchases every year, usually around my birthday and christmas when I get ton of amazon and itunes cards from people.

Just listen whenever you can and read up a lot...go on allmusic, open up a youtube and google tab, and start finding new music!  

I use iTunes. If I really like something or want to support a particular artist/group, I'll go out and buy a physical copy of it. I only buy stuff from iTunes if I happen to have a gift card, or if I like a single I'll impulse buy it.

I love ipods. They're so hot right now!

iPods are out, Zunes are in!

IPODS ARE FUCKIN' OUT, ZUNE'S FUCKIN' IN.

My loyalty will pay off in the end!

"the end"?!  Sounds like you've already got your doubts!   Wait for Zune HD!  Year of ZuneS3 continues!
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on September 12, 2009, 09:50:12 PM
Could someone explain how the Zune has a bad reputation with the general public and press, yet 99% of all the comments I've ever seen from anyone anywhere who've actually owned one have been positive?

I'm not interested in either iPod or Zune though, since I don't want to be limited to using the associated software with it.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Beezy on September 12, 2009, 09:53:39 PM
It's a product made by Microsoft. That's where most of the hate comes from.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: OptimoPeach on September 12, 2009, 09:55:24 PM
lol I was seriously thinking about making this thread a few days ago. I agree, it's stunning to me when I'm clicking around on Last.FM and I see people with libraries of 500+ artists. Then again, I wasn't really all that into music until a few years ago, and now I'm downloading 5-10 new albums a week, so I guess it isn't that crazy. Although I would be totally overwhelmed without forums, music blogs, NME, Pitchfork (lol), etc.

I think the better question is how people can be so parochial in terms of what genres they listen to. How do you guys (tiesto, fistfulofmetal) not get bored?

I'm not interested in either iPod or Zune though, since I don't want to be limited to using the associated software with it.
I'm really glad to see someone else saying this.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 12, 2009, 09:59:21 PM
Could someone explain how the Zune has a bad reputation with the general public and press, yet 99% of all the comments I've ever seen from anyone anywhere who've actually owned one have been positive?

I'm not interested in either iPod or Zune though, since I don't want to be limited to using the associated software with it.

Lots of it is as Beezy stated. Also Apple fandom is pretty fervent and their last area of unity is in the iPod line (since it hasn't really been challenged at all up till now). Apple's PC/Laptop offerings can be lol'ed at but oh no, not their iPods!

That aside, the Zune HD looks very awesome. The battery charge life, different functions and HD FM Tuner top it off. Its also equipped with fricken OLED screen (new screen tech that doesn't require a backlight, it creates its own light).
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Don Flamenco on September 12, 2009, 10:02:55 PM
Could someone explain how the Zune has a bad reputation with the general public and press, yet 99% of all the comments I've ever seen from anyone anywhere who've actually owned one have been positive?

I'm not interested in either iPod or Zune though, since I don't want to be limited to using the associated software with it.

i'm just joke-trolling.  i've never actually seen one. 

spoiler (click to show/hide)
cause nobody owns one LOLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL
[close]
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Raban on September 12, 2009, 10:09:32 PM
Is there a single PMP that doesn't have a small capacity, stupid clunky software that you're tied down to, and an unfair price point? Sony's touchscreen Walkman thing came close except I'm fucking sick of touchscreens. I just want a drag and drop PMP with like 150GBs of space for like $200. Is that too much to ask?
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: OptimoPeach on September 12, 2009, 10:11:04 PM
Is there a single PMP that doesn't have a small capacity, stupid clunky software that you're tied down to, and an unfair price point? Sony's touchscreen Walkman thing came close except I'm fucking sick of touchscreens. I just want a drag and drop PMP with like 150GBs of space for like $200. Is that too much to ask?
Yes.

I'm thinking about getting a new Creative Zen (http://www.creative.com/products/mp3/zen/), but they are only ~30gb.

edit: linked the wrong one
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Raban on September 12, 2009, 10:12:17 PM
I'd even settle for 100GBs/$250. That part is flexible.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 12, 2009, 10:12:59 PM
I just want a drag and drop PMP with like 150GBs of space for like $200. Is that too much to ask?

Ever since Solid State Memory came about, the capacity of most PMPs have rebooted. We'll probably see the 100GB barrier be broken next year but you won't be seeing it at $200 until like 2011 or 2012 (after 2012, who gives a shit, since we'll all be dead anyways).

I'm thinking about getting a new Creative Zen (http://www.creative.com/products/mp3/zen/), but they are only ~30gb.

edit: linked the wrong one

Creative MP3 players are supposed to be the best sounding ones anyway so from a pure audio standpoint  8)
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Raban on September 12, 2009, 10:15:36 PM
I just want a drag and drop PMP with like 150GBs of space for like $200. Is that too much to ask?

Ever since Solid State Memory came about, the capacity of most PMPs have rebooted. We'll probably see the 100GB barrier be broken next year but you won't be seeing it at $200 until like 2011 or 2012 (after 2012, who gives a shit, since we'll all be dead anyways).

I fucking hate this. I really wish SSDs would go die. In a fire. And is it me or do Apple products just cease to function after enough time? I had an iPod Classic that went from a zippy processor and a battery that wouldn't quit to taking 3 hours to get to a song and the battery life being gone by that time. Same shit happened to my Zune, as well as my iPhone.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 12, 2009, 10:17:42 PM
My 3G Nano's center button is being a bitch for no reason whatsover. I usually baby my equipment. Just shitty builds in general.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: OptimoPeach on September 12, 2009, 10:23:54 PM
I use iTunes. If I really like something or want to support a particular artist/group, I'll go out and buy a physical copy of it. I only buy stuff from iTunes if I happen to have a gift card, or if I like a single I'll impulse buy it.
Maybe when iTunes is a little more flexible with their encoding formats I'll start using them. Too few MP3 players play nice with AAC, and I'm wary of all the private info they tack on to your purchases (unless they dropped that practice?). iTunes Plus was one step in the right direction, though.

And I don't like the Zune Marketplace's "renting" model either.

Until there's a better digital distribution model I'm content with pirating music and supporting artists through shows and merchandise. They'd probably make less from the royalties of my purchase anyway
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: ch1nchilla on September 13, 2009, 12:28:32 AM
Can't you make the iPod drag-n-drop?
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 13, 2009, 12:36:50 AM
Can't you make the iPod drag-n-drop?

Within the app but I'm not sure of actually drag and dropping folders within Windows. I have my 3G Nano so that it doesn't sync at all with iTunes and I just drag and drop within the application itself.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: OptimoPeach on September 13, 2009, 01:09:44 AM
As far as I know, because of the way iPods randomly organize files an external application is always required for using anything other than iTunes. There used to be a freeware app called reTune that would allow you to use Windows Explorer, but it hasn't been updated for over 2 years.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: Don Flamenco on September 13, 2009, 01:31:53 AM
all music on the itunes store is DRM free now, right? 

in any case, I don't care so much either way. I'd rather not wait the rest of my life to buy things drm free.
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: OptimoPeach on September 13, 2009, 02:36:07 AM
Yeah, their entire selection is finally DRM free. Apparently your full name and email address is still embedded in any files you purchase, though
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: BlueTsunami on September 13, 2009, 03:33:36 AM
DRM Free and a bitrate bump of 256kbs? (not in addition too but at 256Kbs)
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: OptimoPeach on September 13, 2009, 03:55:10 AM
Yeah. However, they also introduced variable pricing (http://weblogs.baltimoresun.com/business/appleaday/blog/2009/04/youll_get_used_to_129_songs_at.html) around the same time, and Amazon has since followed suit
Title: Re: Music-heads: How do you manage to absorb and listen to so much music?
Post by: tiesto on September 13, 2009, 11:32:27 AM
I think the better question is how people can be so parochial in terms of what genres they listen to. How do you guys (tiesto, fistfulofmetal) not get bored?

Well, there are a million different subgenres of electronic music, so I'll listen to one or two at a time, then jump to something else...

Like, these songs don't sound too much like each other for instance:

[youtube=560,345]UbQDx3IudNA[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]TjacfNpitlQ[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]vzbyRHvdZxU[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]NSas-TDj0gA[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]O2gHvJWspxo[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]MyfVNx9urb8[/youtube]