THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 05:29:52 PM

Title: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 05:29:52 PM
And I've been in denial since I was 11 years old.

In the black community in America, Christianity is a huge thing. It's not just a religion, it's also the backbone of the social fabric of the community. Especially in places like Texas.

But when I was in 6th grade English class, we were reading Greek Mythology and I came to the conclusion that it was all bollocks; I couldn't see the difference between the Christian faith - or any faith really - and the Greek mythos we were reading. How come stories of a talking bush that was one fire were followed and accepted willingly but folks couldn't accept that Zeus went down to Earth and impregnated any attractive woman he could find?

But I couldn't accept it. No way was I going to tell my true feelings to my friends or family or church on religion and Christianity in particular. No way. "I believe in God, dammit." I said to myself. "Just, you know, not that God. But I believe in a God!"

This led to a complete obsession with mythology, philosohpy and religious text which brought me to Islam.

If I were religious in any way, Islam would be the first religion I'd prescribe to as many of its beliefs fit me: allowing intellectual discourse on the religion and encouraging such, not being based around the worship of a man who "rises from the dead" but the actual entity we know as God; a one on one relationship.

My parents knew I wasn't religious or particularly an ardent Christian, but I could never tell them - or rather, my mother...my father is quite an open minded individual - how I truly felt, especially since my own mother once asked me if I worshiped the devil once before. I had to have a faith. It wasn't going to be Christianity because I don't agree with any of it, but I had to have a faith.

All the other black people I know have one.

Me: Hey Felicia, you ever think sometimes you just don't believe in a God?
Felicia: Never. You'll go to hell if you think like that Garrett!

So I converted to Islam. I have prayed in Arabic, not eaten pork or gotten drunk or smoked reefer for a good one to two years. I truly felt what I was doing was right, I believed in God, dammit.

But I've been lying to myself. It was around Ramadan last month that I came to this conclusion.

Is there a God? I don't fucking know. I have never seen evidence that have supported it, although I told myself he does exist. Hoping, wishing. However, I can't say he doesn't exist either, because there's so much more to this galaxy and universe and planet than I could ever comprehend.

Do I believe in a God? Not the personal God, no. A God who is able to understand every person's thoughts? A God a who is not willing to show himself to his supporters? A God who thrives on a reward and punishment system? A God who allows millions of people to be killed for the sole fact that they're either jewish, gay, gypsies and more?

I don't know about that.

But I do believe that there's more to this world than meets the eye. This is what I got from my experience with Islam; I feel at peace when I pray. Likely not with a God, but with something else I can't explain. It makes me feel spiritual. I just can't prove or disproof it, so I will revel in it and remain neutral.

It's time to start being honest with myself. This has made me depressed for the past month and it's time accept it, swallow it and declare it.

What do I have to fear, aside from further being an outcast in the Black American community? But fuck it, that's better than lying to myself. I refuse to do it anymore.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 05:32:37 PM
tl;dr

My takeaway- you wanted to drink and eat bacon.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 05:33:07 PM
My mother will feed me to the dogs.

tl;dr

My takeaway- you wanted to drink and eat bacon.

Naw, that's not the case.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Flannel Boy on October 03, 2009, 05:34:39 PM
Bacon poutine.  :drool
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 05:34:57 PM
I dunno why it has to be a big deal.  Anyway, you should read up on Buddhism (I've thought that ever since you went on your spiritual walk in the park) since you can totally be agnostic and be a Buddhist.  But maybe you're at a point in your life where you just don't want to buy into any "isms" which is totally understandable and respectable imo.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Mr. Gundam on October 03, 2009, 05:37:09 PM
That's great that you figured it out. Just be cool and don't make a big deal about it and you'll be fine with your family.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 05:37:10 PM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

Are you sure about that?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 03, 2009, 05:38:30 PM
My mother will feed me to the dogs.
pork :usacry

Despite my trolls I'm agnostic as well. I don't remember the last time I cared about religion. It's something that still surrounds me, considering my family - I'm going to bible class tomorrow. But I just can't compel myself to believe in a book re-written for hundreds of years. Is there a god? I think it's more than likely. But I seriously doubt he's the one I prayed to in my early life, or that Himu prayed to a few months ago. smh
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: cool breeze on October 03, 2009, 05:42:32 PM
wouldn't it be easier to stay muslim and just be bad at it?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Raban on October 03, 2009, 05:44:53 PM
I dunno why it has to be a big deal.  Anyway, you should read up on Buddhism (I've thought that ever since you went on your spiritual walk in the park) since you can totally be agnostic and be a Buddhist.  But maybe you're at a point in your life where you just don't want to buy into any "isms" which is totally understandable and respectable imo.

Buddhism is the only religion I've ever been interested in. I need to read up on it. Seriously the best religion there is.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Flannel Boy on October 03, 2009, 05:46:22 PM
Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Tieno on October 03, 2009, 05:47:03 PM
God damn it, that's what you get when Jinfash is your promotor. He really is the world's most terrible terrorist.

Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Raban on October 03, 2009, 05:51:13 PM
Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

Nvm Buddhism is just as stupid as other religions. Why does every goddamn religion has something against sexual activity and taking drugs? That's life, man. I'm not a pothead or a sex fiend (lol) or anything, but what the hell does God have against that kind of thing?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 03, 2009, 05:52:47 PM
Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

Nvm Buddhism is just as stupid as other religions. Why does every goddamn religion has something against sexual activity and taking drugs? That's life, man. I'm not a pothead or a sex fiend (lol) or anything, but what the hell does God have against that kind of thing?

I know right. Malek would fit right in, dunno why he's so anti-religion
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Barry Egan on October 03, 2009, 05:54:50 PM
congrats Himu, you little sinner you!
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: bork on October 03, 2009, 05:56:19 PM
Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

Nvm Buddhism is just as stupid as other religions. Why does every goddamn religion has something against sexual activity and taking drugs? That's life, man. I'm not a pothead or a sex fiend (lol) or anything, but what the hell does God have against that kind of thing?

Because "God" (I.E., the man) has more control over you when follow "his" strict teachings.  

Yes, sexual activity is wrong and A HORRIBLE, AWFUL THING.  But killing in "the lord's name," causing mass violence and misery?  Imposing your will and beliefs on others?  A-OK!

Religion made a lot more sense hundreds of years ago, when people didn't know how things worked and couldn't come up with a logical explanation for anything.  It's also a way to control the population.  Pig meat making people sick?  Let's tell 'em the man in the sky says it's bad for you!

I got no problem with people who have religious beliefs, though.  Just don't try and convert me and don't talk to me about it. 
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Positive Touch on October 03, 2009, 06:06:06 PM
the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: drew on October 03, 2009, 06:07:28 PM
i simple dont care enough to spend the time to come to a religious consensus
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Mr. Gundam on October 03, 2009, 06:12:07 PM
the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

Religion never comes up with people out here. Must be a Seattle thing.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 03, 2009, 06:15:40 PM
the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

Religion never comes up with people out here. Must be a Seattle thing.

Comes up all the time here, but I'm guessing it's more to do with the people who I'm surrounded with. My roommate is a hardcore name-it-claim-it/healing Christian who blasts Christian music and sermons for all to hear. I constantly get asked whether I'm going to become more involved in a church, not by my parents but by their friends. When I talk to my grandparents I get preached to, etc.

Vague answers and comments get me by though. I'll just nod my head or say "yea that's true..." and try to change the subject as soon as possible
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Akala on October 03, 2009, 06:16:05 PM
if there is a god (gods!), I like to think they will look at how you lived your life rather than if you went to church every sunday.

no one can know what's out there, so why waste time worrying about it? just live your life well, and be as good as you can.

Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Tieno on October 03, 2009, 06:18:26 PM
the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.
lolmerica indeed :usacry
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Positive Touch on October 03, 2009, 06:22:39 PM
the social stigma really is the worst.  i still can only give out evasive answers when someone asks me about faith because i dont want to deal with all the put-downs and questions and just the general feeling of disgust/pity that a lot of religious people have towards atheists/agnostics.  "BU BU BU WHY DON'T YOU JUST GROW A PAIR AND TELL THEM?!"   Because i'd rather not have my friends, coworkers and family look down on me just to make a stand on something i really don't give a shit about.

Religion never comes up with people out here. Must be a Seattle thing.
midwest  :'(
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 03, 2009, 06:37:32 PM
wow, some pretty big ignorance of buddhism and buddhist precepts all up here in da heezy
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 06:39:04 PM
wow, some pretty big ignorance of buddhism and buddhist precepts all up here in da heezy

yeah, i don't really want to bother to correct someone everytime they read something incorrect into it tho, since to me it's not a governing dogma and more of a slack road map
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 06:56:29 PM
I tend to think that as long as you dont mention religion, the religious people wont mention it too, and you can get along fine.

Haha, you really don't want to come to America.  Especially to ride that bike route, which went through some of the most rural, batshit insane religious parts of 'murika.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 03, 2009, 07:01:40 PM
maw: "well, i reckon the polack's white, that's good enuff for me"
paw: "shut yer hole, woman. i wanna see iffen he fucks like he talks"
maw: "now yew know i ain't gunna let no-one but you an' our boy git me wif child"
paw: "i didn't mean YOU woman! i'mma take his furrin ass out to the ol' pig chapel mahselfs!"
maw: "well just you don't go upsettin the chickens with his hootin"
paw: "ah'll do what ah wants, and the lord take him if he's still breathin in the mornin"
kosma, through his ball gag: <cries>
kosma's bike: <traded for 50 bales of hay, a pound of sasquatch fur, and a small child with downs>
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: CajoleJuice on October 03, 2009, 07:03:00 PM
Being the best religion is the equivalent of being the Mets' MVP.

:lol


:(
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 07:04:22 PM
Those downs babies can be real valuable Prole- when they mature they have downie strength, which makes plowing fields an easy and enjoyable task for the simpletons at a farm setting.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Flannel Boy on October 03, 2009, 07:05:16 PM
maw: "well, i reckon the polack's white, that's good enuff for me"
paw: "shut yer hole, woman. i wanna see iffen he fucks like he talks"
maw: "now yew know i ain't gunna let no-one but you an' our boy git me wif child"
paw: "i didn't mean YOU woman! i'mma take his furrin ass out to the ol' pig chapel mahselfs!"
maw: "well just you don't go upsettin the chickens with his hootin"
paw: "ah'll do what ah wants, and the lord take him if he's still breathin in the mornin"
kosma, through his ball gag: <cries>
kosma's bike: <traded for 50 bales of hay, a pound of sasquatch fur, and a small child with downs>

His muffled cries only mean he wants it. If he didn't want it, why was he parading around in his bike shorts? 
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 07:08:04 PM
Guys seriously it can't be that bad in the U.S.

I know you're a huge country and there must be some backward places, but you can always communicate with fucking people right? You make it sound like its more looney then the third world.

Kosma, you don't get it.  One of our major political parties explicitly caters to people who handle snakes, speak in tongues, believe the earth is 6000 years old and want to murder doctors.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 07:18:36 PM
Guys seriously it can't be that bad in the U.S.

I know you're a huge country and there must be some backward places, but you can always communicate with fucking people right? You make it sound like its more looney then the third world.

I am 100% sure my mom will break down and cry if I told her this, so no.

She once said before she thought she failed as a parent because of my lack in faith of Jesus.

I am serious.

Now, imagine this with people you've known your whole life, many of which are friends, who also helped rear you as you grew up that you saw once (sometimes twice) a week.

If my mom cried when I told her I don't support or believe in the Christian religion, then imagine how she would feel like if I was unsure of God's existence in general.

For me it's a pretty big deal. I feel like I'm living a lie. Me not taking communion when I go to church is already bad enough and they question it. I don't want to pretend I'm someone I'm not but I don't want to hurt them either.

Especially in the black community, I have never met one openly black atheist or agnostic. Well, I was talking to my cousin - who's pretty much my best friend - about this today on facebook and I'm going to call him tonight and he says he thinks he's in the same boat. So I guess I can probably add one possibly black atheist/agnostic to the list of people I know.

If I have to attend one more black activity or party or whatever and hear,"In Jesus' name" my face is going to be  :-\ :-\ :-\
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 03, 2009, 07:37:06 PM
To really fuck with them, you should say that you're a Scientologist.  :smug
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on October 03, 2009, 07:40:54 PM
I live in the midwest and never really tried hiding the fact that I'm atheist.

Nobody really gives a fuck to be honest.  In fact my state legalized gay marriage with little chance of it getting overturned.

The remote, sparsely populated portions of the country are different but even then, you find more than religion nuts.  A friend of mine discovered a hippie enclave in Montana.

EB likes to be hyperbolic; homos can marry here but not in Washington.  We're also kicking ass on the renewable energy front and have leading education test scores but hey, we're full of nuts! ::)
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Beezy on October 03, 2009, 08:04:49 PM
People in our age group generally don't care here in NY.

I believe that there's some type of god, but I've never cared for the religion. Never read the bible outside of what I was required to for theology class in college. Always fell asleep in church when I was younger and still do when I go with my mother every now and then. I don't see why I should have to spend my Sundays in church when I could do something else with my time.

My whole family is religious or has been at some point except for me. My mother has been trying to get me into church more often lately, but she kinda stopped when my father said "You can't force him to like church. He didn't grow up in it like we did when we were young."
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: twerd on October 03, 2009, 08:11:19 PM
join the club. agnostic muslim bore! :rock
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 08:12:27 PM
You're an agnostic theist, twerd?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 08:19:08 PM
That's why I don't plan on telling them. But it's hard lying about someone I'm not when approached even in church when I turn down communion.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Powerslave on October 03, 2009, 08:31:40 PM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 08:36:22 PM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.

That's the thing that gets me. What is considered an injustice? I don't think things are so black and white.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 08:37:42 PM
That's why I don't plan on telling them. But it's hard lying about someone I'm not when approached even in church when I turn down communion.

Honesty, especially with parents, is overrated. Seriously, lie if you have to. At this late point in their lives you have no idea how long it might take to mend any severed ties.

You are assuming I am talking solely about parents. I am talking about a community.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 08:51:59 PM
Last month I decided to not participate in Ramadan because I felt I wasn't ready yet.

And that month got me thinking.

I realized that my relationship with God was superficial, as was my belief in him.

I still think Islam gave me a lot more than Christianity ever did, though. I'm certainly healthier and I feel better about myself. It gave me a lot. I still don't think I'll take up drinking and smoking the green stuff again, and I still haven't picked up pork again, although yesterday I accidentally ate bacon. By the same token, though, I don't eat beef as much either.

Maybe I'll start eating both again when I reach my goal of 140 and 150 pounds.

Chicken all the way, especially grilled.

Anyways, no one in Islam did anything to make me lose faith. Although it was unsettling to go to a mosque and be gawked at by a bunch of Pakisatni's. It also didn't help that I was really the only my age, aside from one or two other people who was muslim, but that enabled me to do more soul searching.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Akala on October 03, 2009, 08:56:01 PM
Last month I decided to not participate in Ramadan because I felt I wasn't ready yet.

And that month got me thinking.

I realized that my relationship with God was superficial, as was my belief in him.

I still think Islam gave me a lot more than Christianity ever did, though. I'm certainly healthier and I feel better about myself. It gave me a lot. I still don't think I'll take up drinking and smoking the green stuff again, and I still haven't picked up pork again, although yesterday I accidentally ate bacon. By the same token, though, I don't eat beef as much either.

Maybe I'll start eating both again when I reach my goal of 140 and 150 pounds.

Chicken all the way, especially grilled.

Anyways, no one in Islam did anything to make me lose faith. Although it was unsettling to go to a mosque and be gawked at by a bunch of Pakisatni's. It also didn't help that I was really the only my age, aside from one or two other people who was muslim, but that enabled me to do more soul searching.

coincidence?

it truly is the devil's meat. :(
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: CajoleJuice on October 03, 2009, 08:56:53 PM
I accidentally eat bacon all the time. :drool
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 08:57:03 PM
Uh, food had nothing to do with my belief. I merely mentioned it because it's one of the ways Islam has helped me in making me feel better and more healthy.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:01:17 PM
Seriously Jin, did you not read the part where I said I benefited from Islam in making me feel more healthy? :lol You don't think the diet is a part of this?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:02:56 PM
I was referring to Ramadan and not being ready. I'm sure that it's not just that, I read the OP, I feel what you're going through.



Oh. It wasn't the food. Ramadan is a holy month in Islam so it got me thinking. Not being ready wasn't due to the food, but my faith in general.

You dont need any religion to make you a better person, you can do everything out of your own.

I agree, but at the time I never considered agnosticism or atheism an option. Although I've always had my doubts, I felt comfort in believing in something. The thought process went like,"I believe in God. So it's not like I'm atheist!" So taking it upon myself to join another faith was purely based on self betterment, so I was willing to accept not eating pork or not drinking.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: bork on October 03, 2009, 09:08:23 PM
I tend to think that as long as you dont mention religion, the religious people wont mention it too, and you can get along fine.

You should watch the documentary "Religulous" with Bill Maher.  There's a Jesusland theme park in Florida.  Seriously.

[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jtUprcpridE[/youtube]

Check out 0:35 for this snippet:

Maher: "You're a senator.  It worries me that people who are running my country believe in a talking snake."
Senator: "You don't have to pass an IQ test to be in the senate though.  *laughs*"
Maher: "............."
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:09:42 PM
My aunt showed me that.

I was trying my hardest to not laugh in her face. Really.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:15:12 PM
Really? I figured that if you're going to have a holy month you should do it right, and I didn't feel I was at that level yet.

I'm not worried about other people. I'm more concerned about myself.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:25:18 PM
What do you do "wrong"?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 03, 2009, 09:27:20 PM
I'm a Christian and I can bacon EVERY DAY. :drake
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:29:43 PM
Who took your virginity, hon?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Phoenix Dark on October 03, 2009, 09:44:12 PM
What did she say when you told her you were converting to Islam tho?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:45:49 PM
She was disappointed but accepted it. However she said things like,"I've failed you as a parent".


I am 100% sure my mom will break down and cry if I told her this, so no.

She once said before she thought she failed as a parent because of my lack in faith of Jesus.

I am serious.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 09:47:12 PM
delete
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Flannel Boy on October 03, 2009, 10:10:16 PM
What do you do "wrong"?

... :-*

What was her name?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: tiesto on October 03, 2009, 10:19:35 PM
Welcome to the club, Himu.

Here around NY, not very many people care about your religion... my aunt told me a story that when her and my uncle moved down to Melbourne Florida (from Flushing), after a few weeks the neighbors knocked on their door, concerned because they hadn't seen the 2 of them at the local church. Most people here are either very liberal Catholic, reform Jews, or agnostic. Though occasionally you meet the occasional nutjobs as I can certainly attest to.

I totally can't imagine living in an area where everyone is so gung-ho about church and will chastise and avoid you if you aren't religious.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Beezy on October 03, 2009, 10:21:01 PM
It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.
I used to think about this when I was younger and it seriously scared the shit out of me. I still do think about it every now and then, but I find something to distract myself when I realize it.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 03, 2009, 10:27:33 PM
Welcome to the club, Himu.

Here around NY, not very many people care about your religion... my aunt told me a story that when her and my uncle moved down to Melbourne Florida (from Flushing), after a few weeks the neighbors knocked on their door, concerned because they hadn't seen the 2 of them at the local church. Most people here are either very liberal Catholic, reform Jews, or agnostic. Though occasionally you meet the occasional nutjobs as I can certainly attest to.

I totally can't imagine living in an area where everyone is so gung-ho about church and will chastise and avoid you if you aren't religious.

Even more reason to move to New York City!
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: etiolate on October 03, 2009, 11:15:49 PM
I ran into some strange behaviors when I stopped going to the church I grew up in, but only from those in that church.  Someone had started rumors that I was into drugs and bad behavior, and the other youth had believed it. I eventually came to Quakerism after staying with my beliefs, but finding nothing of use within the church. But since this is California, that sort of soul searching is rather accepted.  Being atheist or agnostic isn't a big deal. You get more hell here if you don't recycle. People don't really care much about my choice of faith, they just wonder where my horse and buggy are.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: castle007 on October 04, 2009, 03:17:18 AM
But seriously Himu, was it Castle? and the shame of sharing the same religion with him?

 ::)

I will just keep ignoring your crap.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 10:18:35 AM
Did you pirate it?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 10:22:50 AM
I think I will too.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Tieno on October 04, 2009, 10:23:45 AM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.
I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 10:24:45 AM
Is it condensing towards other who believe? I find the subject of religion fascinating so I respect people who are religious. I just hope it doesn't perpetuate every stereotype about atheists, because I've met far more rude atheists in my life than theists.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 10:26:25 AM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.
I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

I can attest that as a child, most of my faith was stemmed by fear, rather than love. So it never really felt like true "faith" but something done out of tradition and compulsion.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: GilloD on October 04, 2009, 10:40:46 AM
I really WISH I could care about this thread. I really want to care about it.

GET IT?!
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 10:44:11 AM
Is it condensing towards other who believe? I find the subject of religion fascinating so I respect people who are religious. I just hope it doesn't perpetuate every stereotype about atheists, because I've met far more rude atheists in my life than theists.

Bill is an agnost not an atheist, he simply doesn't know. He justs confronts people with the idotic things about faith in a humurous way. Not really any new arguments but fun to watch.

I think the best line in the movie is "Religion makes a virtue of not thinking, it's nothing to be proud of."

Oh, really? I had the idea he was atheist.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Third on October 04, 2009, 10:49:44 AM
The first time I saw an Adam and Eve painting I started to question a few things. How come they had belly buttons? They were the first humans on earth. How the hell can they have belly buttons?

That was when I was 8-9 years old. I always questioned a lot of things about religion, and how some things didn't make any sense at all. The hypocrisy surrounding it also made me mad.

The Koran, Bible, Thora etc. are nothing more than mythology books to me. I respect the books, though, because they can help and inspire people. But I personally don't need religion to become a good person. And I'm not afraid to NOT believe.

I think there's a higher power out there. There must be some sort of GOD. But it's not a person nor a living thing.
 
Welcome to the club. Being agnostic is being free. Don't feel depressed for thinking what you actually THINK and BELIEVE.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Powerslave on October 04, 2009, 11:08:03 AM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.
I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

You must not really give a fuck about family and loved ones then.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Tieno on October 04, 2009, 11:09:15 AM
If you dont believe in God, there is actually less to fear and more to enjoy.

It's from which angle you look at it. I'm more comfortable with the idea of the existence of God because the thought that everything and everyone that has ever lived is just gone forever is terrifying. Not to mention the infinite numbers of injustice done to people throughout history. I hope they get their punishment, and we will watch them have it.
I don't understand this, is your faith is based on fear? Fear of conclusion you'd have to draw so you make yourself belief? Who cares if it's uncomfortable, it's reality.

Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

You must not really give a fuck about family and loved ones then.
I can't tell if you're serious or not.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 11:17:09 AM
From Religulous

Man: l think it was determined the shroud or whatever that was, went around a while back--l didn't get involved.

Maher: Shroud of Turin?

Man: They took blood samples from it, and it was female blood with a male figure. Okay, the only possible way that could happen was that the Holy Ghost impregnated Mary because it would've been female blood because it would've been the only blood flowing through her.

Maher: ...
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 11:28:07 AM
Preacher: What I'm about to say...is revelation! Hallelujah!

- I got it on dvd!

Preacher: I have it on dvd! And you need to get this, Hallelujah!

:rofl
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 11:33:52 AM
This movie is HILARIOUS
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Diunx on October 04, 2009, 11:44:46 AM
I worship that snake deity that Alan Moore also worships, the ladies always find it interesting.

Also the op is way too long and there are too many replys here so I haven't read shit.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Don Flamenco on October 04, 2009, 07:47:27 PM
awesome, now you can join the annoying ass "people who watched Religulous" religion.  don't be that douche who wants to put down every religious person they meet with Bill Maher's witty logic. :) 

I don't believe in any particular religion either but I absolutely hate "piss-on-the-blanket" agnostics who think they're above it all and don't acknowledge that the belief helps a lot of normal people out. 
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: brawndolicious on October 04, 2009, 10:12:52 PM
Religulous was great in the parts where Bill Maher wasn't preaching.  It was just about the stupidest possible religious people that he could track down and so it was funny for at least an hour to anybody (religious or not) but really fell apart when he tried to tack on the anti-religion message at the end considering this wasn't exactly the most unbiased movie.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 04, 2009, 10:21:58 PM
awesome, now you can join the annoying ass "people who watched Religulous" religion.  don't be that douche who wants to put down every religious person they meet with Bill Maher's witty logic. :) 

I don't believe in any particular religion either but I absolutely hate "piss-on-the-blanket" agnostics who think they're above it all and don't acknowledge that the belief helps a lot of normal people out. 

Completely agreed. I'm always respectful to others in regards to this.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Oblivion on October 05, 2009, 08:05:24 PM
I ran into some strange behaviors when I stopped going to the church I grew up in, but only from those in that church.  Someone had started rumors that I was into drugs and bad behavior, and the other youth had believed it. I eventually came to Quakerism after staying with my beliefs, but finding nothing of use within the church. But since this is California, that sort of soul searching is rather accepted.  Being atheist or agnostic isn't a big deal. You get more hell here if you don't recycle. People don't really care much about my choice of faith, they just wonder where my horse and buggy are.

:lol Same thing happened to me when I moved out and stopped speaking to most of my family. They thought because of no familial guidance I had succumbed to the evils of drugs, hookers, Christianity, etc. It gets quite annoying when people try to equate religion with morality.

She was disappointed but accepted it. However she said things like,"I've failed you as a parent".


I am 100% sure my mom will break down and cry if I told her this, so no.

She once said before she thought she failed as a parent because of my lack in faith of Jesus.

I am serious.


Sorry to hear that, Himu, but sadly it sounds about right. Here's a conversation I had with my mom like 15 years ago.


Me: Mom, I've been wondering, there are plenty of religions out there, how do we know ours is the right one?
Her: *scowl*
Me: Di...Did I say something I wasn't supposed to?
Her: What kind of stupid question is that? How do you know our religion is the right one? Well, think about it. What other religion has as many good qualities about treating other people than ours?
Me: Uh...well, the Jews don't seem that ba...
Her: *LARGER scowl*
Me: Uh...good point.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Fresh Prince on October 05, 2009, 09:00:23 PM
At least you get to eat bacon now.

Pork chops too.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Oblivion on October 05, 2009, 10:51:06 PM
Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

I try to use that rationale to ease the fear of nothingness, but the problem is that, a person is currently alive NOW, so it's hard to imagine otherwise.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 06, 2009, 12:18:28 AM
Almost finished with The God Delusion, which I picked up last month out of pure curiosity. Which is probably the catalyst to me coming to terms with all this.

I think I'd put myself on 5 or 6 on Dawkin's scale after contemplating it. I'll see what I think when I'm done with it.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Tieno on October 06, 2009, 04:18:09 AM
Besides that, it depends on what you consider 'gone'. Nothing disappears, it's just matter that ends up going into other stuff, we're all made of stardust as Carl Sagan says. I don't fear the idea that I won't be here anymore, I haven't been here for billions of years. I'm just glad I'm able to live on this planet, at such an interesting time where we're able to know a part of what all this stuff is.

I try to use that rationale to ease the fear of nothingness, but the problem is that, a person is currently alive NOW, so it's hard to imagine otherwise.
I've also been preoccupied with that thought but ever since I started reading up on evolution and the history of the universe I'm just overwhelmed with a sense of privilege and wonder. I'd like to live forever, but that's impossible, I'm quite content with this chance. Maybe I still feel sad or nostalgic about this or something, but I just can't make myself to believe something based on that so you have to live with it.

Here's a nice passage written by Richard Dawkins that I take at heart

"We are going to die, and that makes us the lucky ones. Most people are never going to die because they are never going to be born. The potential people who could have been here in my place but who will in fact never see the light of day outnumber the sand grains of Sahara. Certainly those unborn ghosts include greater poets than Keats, scientists greater than Newton. We know this because the set of possible people allowed by our DNA so massively outnumbers the set of actual people. In the teeth of these stupefying odds it is you and I, in our ordinariness, that are here.

Here is another respect in which we are lucky. The universe is older than 100 million centuries. Within a comparable time the sun will swell to a red giant and engulf the earth. Every century of hundreds of millions has been in its time, or will be when its time comes, 'the present century.' The present moves from the past to the future, like a tiny spotlight, inching its way along a gigantic ruler of time. Everything behind the spotlight is in darkness, the darkness of the dead past. Everything ahead of the spotlight is in the darkness of the unknown future. The odds of your century's being the one in the spotlight are the same as the odds that a penny, tossed down at random, will land on a particular ant crawling somewhere along the road from New York to San Francisco. You are lucky to be alive and so am I.

We live on a planet that is all but perfect for our kind of life: not too warm and not too cold, basking in kindly sunshine, softly watered; a gently spinning, green and gold harvest-festival of a planet. Yes, and alas, there are deserts and slums; there is starvation and racking misery to be found. But take a look at the competition. Compared with most planets this is paradise, and parts of Earth are still paradise by any standards. What are the odds that a planet picked at random will have these complaisant properties? Even the most optimistic calculation will put it at less than one in a million.

Imagine a spaceship full of sleeping explorers, deep-frozen would-be colonists of some distant world. Perhaps the ship is on a forlorn mission to save the species before an unstoppable comet, like the one that killed the dinosaurs, hits the home planet. The voyagers go into the deep-freeze soberly reckoning the odds against their spaceship's ever chancing upon a planet friendly to life. If one in a million planets is suitable at best, and it takes centuries to travel from each star to the next, the spaceship is pathetically unlikely to find a tolerable, let alone safe, haven for its sleeping cargo.

But imagine that the ship's robot pilot turns out to be unthinkably lucky. After millions of years the ship does find a planet capable of sustaining life: a planet of equable temperature, bathed in warm starshine, refreshed by oxygen and water. The passengers, Rip van Winkles, wake stumbling into the light. After a million years of sleep, here is a whole new fertile globe, a lush planet of warm pastures, sparkling streams and waterfalls, a world bountiful with creatures, darting through alien green felicity. Our travellers walk entranced, stupefied, unable to believe their unaccustomed senses or their luck.

As I said, the story asks for too much luck; it would never happen. And yet, isn't it what has happened to each one of us? We havewoken after hundreds of millions of years asleep, defying astronomical odds. Admittedly we didn't arrive by spaceship, we arrived by being born, and we didn't burst conscious into the world but accumulated awareness gradually through babyhood. The fact that we gradually apprehend our world, rather than suddenly discovering it, should not subtract from its wonder."

Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on October 06, 2009, 10:49:25 AM
I'm fucking frightened of "not existing" anymore. It's depressing. 

That's why you have to make the most of it while you're here.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: twerd on October 06, 2009, 12:46:22 PM
you didn't exist before you were born and i didn't hear you crying like a fucking weiner then. i don't understand why so many people have to turn to religion to find meaning post-mortem. there are things called legacies, memories, artworks...that's how you stay relevant through time, not through some eye in the sky.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on October 06, 2009, 01:09:50 PM
 ???

I'm not religious at all.

Anyway, only a robot wouldn't be afraid of not existing.  :lol
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 06, 2009, 01:45:32 PM
Where does everyone stand on the Dawkins theist-atheist scale?

The more I read The God  Delusion the more I think I'm more of a 6 than a 5.  :-\

1: Strong theist. 100% certainty and belief in God. "I do not believe, I know."

2: De-facto theist. I cannot be certain of God's existence, but I strongly believe and live my life on the assumption that it is there.

3: Agnostic theist. I am uncertain, but inclined to believe in God.

4: Agnostic. God's existence and non-existence are equally probably and improbable.

5: Agnostic atheist. I am uncertain, but inclined to not believe in God.

6: De-facto atheist. I cannot know for certain, but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that there is no God.

7: Strong atheist. I know there is no God.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: FlameOfCallandor on October 06, 2009, 01:47:58 PM
I'm a 4 on the scale of what I think about that scale.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 06, 2009, 01:49:32 PM
I'd rate that sentence a 4.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Flannel Boy on October 06, 2009, 01:50:26 PM
I'm definitely at six on the scale. As a young child I guess I was between a two and a three.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 06, 2009, 01:58:07 PM
Yeah, I firmly believe there could be something. For all we know energy or atoms are God. Who gives a shit.

But a personal deity -- a spaceman who can hear everyone's voices and prayers and thoughts in the world who hovers around in space on a cloud? I just don't think it's probable. That's not to say it CAN'T exist, but I've come to the conclusion I really don't believe a personal God exists. It makes no sense and I'm tired of hearing the explanation,"We are feeble humans, why question God? We can't understand him." or this goody,"God works in mysterious ways."

I really wonder what conclusion I would have came to if I hadn't picked up this book. I remember someone suggesting it before, but honestly I never really gave it much thought.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Tieno on October 06, 2009, 02:11:34 PM
Himu, I suggest you write to Dawkins about the book. He often gets questioned wether you can change people's beliefs but he has maintained he frequently gets mails from people like you, as Convert's Corner (http://richarddawkins.net/convertsCorner) shows.

I'm a 6, defacto atheist. Wether there's something before the big bang or whatever, I highly doubt (6) it's supernatural therefor not god in religious terms which I pretty much reject.  I don't like to use the term 'god' in non-supernatural/religious ways.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Robo on October 06, 2009, 02:16:08 PM
I'm a 6, defacto atheist. Wether there's something before the big bang or whatever, I highly doubt (6) it's supernatural therefor not god in religious terms which I pretty much reject.  I don't like to use the term 'god' in non-supernatural/religious ways.

Word.  The mythology is what muddies everything up. 
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 06, 2009, 03:16:43 PM
also read "the black swan" by nicholas nassim talib (sic, probably)
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Fresh Prince on October 06, 2009, 03:39:41 PM
So where do you fit on the scale old man?
:lol

Mine:
Militant atheist. I cannot know for certain, but I think God is very improbable and I live my life on the assumption that there is no God. If there was I would try and fight him since he's probably old and stupid.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Fresh Prince on October 06, 2009, 03:47:10 PM
With Hitchens and a bottle of scotch we would probably win too.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Barry Egan on October 06, 2009, 03:50:19 PM
5.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 06, 2009, 04:49:54 PM
With Hitchens and a bottle of scotch we would probably win too.

What if you had a mech?
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 06, 2009, 04:50:50 PM
i see no valid, practical reason to ascribe the human concept of "divinity" to anything that exists outside our knowledge -- especially to that which is not observable. likewise, if it is within our sphere of knowledge, it is circumscribed and can thus be known, and is therefore not "supernatural".

to declare anything a product of divinity is to create an illusion necessary to deal with the limitations of one's own mind (and its attendant fears) at that point in time.

basically, i'm probably a 5 or a 6. i'm sympathetic to the idea of a god or creator, and it holds its appeal, but i can't help but ultimately consider it to be nonsense.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on October 06, 2009, 07:16:18 PM
6

I don't think there is one but if there ever were to be something that was discovered to be created by a deity, then that is fine.  #1 and #7 consists of most of the obnoxious twats I see on the internet.  We have virtually no idea about how most of the universe works and probably won't for all of human civilization.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Don Flamenco on October 06, 2009, 07:51:30 PM
4. 

I'm pretty apathetic because, so far, whether there is a god or not has made no difference in my life.  Occasionally I think of the concept of god because it's fun to think about, but I don't think about if it exists. There's no way to know whether it does or doesn't exist and if it does exist, it doesn't want us knowing that for sure. 

and I don't believe in karma or anything of that nature. 
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Flannel Boy on October 06, 2009, 07:59:58 PM
if it does exist, it doesn't want us knowing that for sure. 


god is a recluse, like me or Howard Hughes.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Himu on October 06, 2009, 10:21:12 PM
How can ANYONE be a 1 or 7? I don't get it.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Don Flamenco on October 06, 2009, 11:19:54 PM
How can ANYONE be a 1 or 7? I don't get it.


they can believe they're a 1 or 7 all they want. 
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: CajoleJuice on October 06, 2009, 11:22:13 PM
5 or 6

Depending on how much I hate my life at the time, lolz.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 07, 2009, 12:55:43 AM
Some people in my gaf version of this thread believe they are 1 or 7.

 :-\

http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=17921484&postcount=470
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Fresh Prince on October 07, 2009, 12:57:28 AM
Eh they haven't said they're openly militant about it.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: twerd on October 07, 2009, 04:23:32 PM
FIVE
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: brawndolicious on October 07, 2009, 05:04:12 PM
http://conservapedia.com/Conservative_Bible_Project

Oh my goodness gracious.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I guess it fits best in this thread?
[close]
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: BlueTsunami on October 07, 2009, 05:17:00 PM
I'm a Five. I'm not really interested in if there's a God or not, I actually find other similarly improbable things more interesting (life after death, actually perceiving alternate realities, altered states of consciousness and their purpose).
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Don Flamenco on October 07, 2009, 07:17:05 PM
if it does exist, it doesn't want us knowing that for sure. 


god is a recluse, like me or Howard Hughes.


I'll find it and kill it one day.  It has been toying with me way too much these past few years.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Diunx on October 07, 2009, 07:23:37 PM
We should all join Scientology, maybe we get to meet tom cruise one day :hyper
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on October 08, 2009, 01:27:47 AM
I became an atheist when I realised not masturbating wasn't practical.  The wet dreams made me question what these rules really offered than more problems and neurosis.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnostic
Post by: Powerslave on October 08, 2009, 01:02:22 PM
How can ANYONE be a 1 or 7? I don't get it.

That's funny, I talked with some guy I a week back about religion and when I asked him if he believed in God he 'corrected' me with saying he knows there is a God. This guy was a rasta even.
Title: Re: After being in denial for some time, I've come to a realization: I'm agnosti
Post by: Himu on October 17, 2009, 03:28:08 AM
This podcast is fascinating.


http://www.pointofinquiry.org/norm_allen_african_american_religiosity_humanism_and_politics/ (http://www.pointofinquiry.org/norm_allen_african_american_religiosity_humanism_and_politics/)

Quote
In this wide-ranging discussion with D.J. Grothe, Norm Allen explores some of the challenges advancing science and secularism within the African American community. He examines the pressure to conform to the religious ideal among various black skeptics and atheists, including many historical African American figures such as Langston Hughes, Claude McKay, Nella Larsen, and Faye Wattleton, former president of Planned Parenthood of America. He debates whether religion is a liberating or oppressive force for African Americans. He also details many anti-science trends in the Black community, including those coming from Black entertainment outlets promoting anti-science such as psychic 900 lines, televangelists and belief in prophecy. He ties all of this discussion to an exploration of religion and secularism as they relate to political activism, including the influence of such high-profile Black preachers such as Reverend Jeremiah Wright, Senator Barack Obama's spiritual advisor.

http://www.pointofinquiry.org/michael_lackey_science_postmodernism_and_the_varieties_of_black_humanism/ (http://www.pointofinquiry.org/michael_lackey_science_postmodernism_and_the_varieties_of_black_humanism/)

Quote
In this discussion with D.J. Grothe, Michael Lackey talks about black liberation atheism, and the view among certain black intellectuals that belief in God results in racial inequality. He explores the black intellectual critique of the Enlightenment and of humanism, and how this has played out in post-modernist skepticism of humanism, science and reason in the academy. Focusing on Richard Wright, he explains the view that the real value of science is how it is democratic, not necessarily that it leads to "the truth". And he talks about the correspondence theory of truth and why he rejects it.