THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Stoney Mason on December 18, 2009, 03:32:50 PM

Title: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 18, 2009, 03:32:50 PM
Well they didn't say that but you know they were thinking it.  :smug

Quote

Zeschuk: JRPGs suffering “lack of evolution”December 18th, 2009 @ 19:50
By Patrick Garratt

BioWare boss Greg Zeschuk has claimed JRPGs are stuck in a rut.
“The fall of the JRPG in large part is due to a lack of evolution, a lack of progression,” he told Destructoid.
“They kept delivering the same thing over and over. They make the dressing better, they look prettier, but it’s still the same experience.
“My favorite thing, it’s funny when you still see it, but the joke of some of the dialogue systems where it asks, ‘do you wanna do this or this,’ and you say no. ‘Do you wanna do this or this?’ No. ‘Do you wanna do this or this?’ No. Lemme think – you want me to say ‘yes.’ And that, unfortunately, really characterized the JRPG.”
The studio founder said there were obvious exceptions – Demons’ Souls being one of them – but added that the western RPG has simply evolved further than its Japanese counterpart.

http://www.vg247.com/2009/12/18/zeschuk-jrpgs-suffering-lack-of-evolution/
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: MCD on December 18, 2009, 03:35:14 PM
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2dt3m6a.jpg)
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: demi on December 18, 2009, 03:35:28 PM
Every single one of those is a BioWare trait :lol

Prove me wrong prove me wrong PROVE ME WRONG
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: maxy on December 18, 2009, 03:37:49 PM
Water is wet also.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 18, 2009, 03:38:23 PM
Every single one of those is a BioWare trait :lol

Prove me wrong prove me wrong PROVE ME WRONG

(http://i49.tinypic.com/qs7gaa.jpg)
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: BobFromPikeCreek on December 18, 2009, 03:38:50 PM
JRPGs haven't changed because when they do try something new, weeaboos throw hissy fits.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on December 18, 2009, 03:45:36 PM
Every single one of those is a BioWare trait :lol

Prove me wrong prove me wrong PROVE ME WRONG

(http://i49.tinypic.com/qs7gaa.jpg)

mmmmmm morrigan
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Van Cruncheon on December 18, 2009, 03:49:32 PM
now if wRPG modelers and artists could actually learn to create interesting monsters and effects and characters that don't look like they have some sort of syndrome (although so4 and magna carta 2 would indicate a step back for jappyland), and create battles that are visually dynamic and engaging, maybe we could put the jRPG to bed altogether

also, jRPGS get cranked out at a decent rate rather than 1 every 2 years-ish
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Bebpo on December 18, 2009, 03:53:47 PM
Yeah uh, have wrpgs changed at all since the 90s?

I don't really see wrpgs having evolved any more over the last 20 years than jrpgs.  Seems like same formula but with still ugly graphics.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 18, 2009, 04:00:21 PM
I don't think JRPG developers are even trying unless they're getting funded by Microsoft or something like that.  They've pretty much just bailed out to the handhelds, where they can rack up millions of dollars releasing (or re-releasing) SNES and first gen PSOne era shit.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 18, 2009, 04:15:04 PM
JRPGs haven't changed because when they do try something new, weeaboos throw hissy fits.

So true, the devs for BoF DQ freaking APOLOGIZED because their games was so awesome the wacky jappy set wouldn't play it.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: TakingBackSunday on December 18, 2009, 04:16:26 PM
I already know I'm a loser
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: magus on December 18, 2009, 04:30:18 PM
JRPGs haven't changed because when they do try something new, weeaboos throw hissy fits.
well last time ff12 happened  :-\
Ehhh, it's a bit of the pot calling the kettle black but trolling JRPG fans is pretty awesome.
if everybody is a loser does it mean there is no winner?  :wtf
I don't think JRPG developers are even trying unless they're getting funded by Microsoft or something like that.  They've pretty much just bailed out to the handhelds, where they can rack up millions of dollars releasing (or re-releasing) SNES and first gen PSOne era shit.
here's what i think,square is picking it's nose,konami is in coma,capcom wants only to do game featuring zombie,who remain to make JRPG beside atlus and N1?

i can't really talk since i don't really care about WRPG but i only see bioware rpg around so the situation is even worse than those of JRPG
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Junpei the Tracer! on December 18, 2009, 04:31:15 PM
nippon banzai  :japancry
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Third on December 18, 2009, 04:31:35 PM
How ironic.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Ichirou on December 18, 2009, 07:19:26 PM
JRPGs haven't changed because when they do try something new, weeaboos throw hissy fits.

So true, the devs for BoF DQ freaking APOLOGIZED because their games was so awesome the wacky jappy set wouldn't play it.

It's not even the weeaboos.  It's the Japanese gamers themselves who don't want more open worlds and stories.  They really seem to prefer a very rigid structure to the storytelling and gameplay.  Even games like the Growlanser series which have multiple routes have them very clearly mapped out.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Don Flamenco on December 18, 2009, 07:28:55 PM
OH REALLY BIOWARE well obviously they haven't played Xenosaga 3 :greenshinobi
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 18, 2009, 07:31:03 PM
I don't think JRPG developers are even trying unless they're getting funded by Microsoft or something like that.  They've pretty much just bailed out to the handhelds, where they can rack up millions of dollars releasing (or re-releasing) SNES and first gen PSOne era shit.
here's what i think,square is picking it's nose,konami is in coma,capcom wants only to do game featuring zombie,who remain to make JRPG beside atlus and N1?

i can't really talk since i don't really care about WRPG but i only see bioware rpg around so the situation is even worse than those of JRPG


WRPGs aren't much better but at least the WRPG developers are trying.

Porting Dragon Quest IV is not much of an effort.  Porting Final Fantasy IV and slapping extremely crude graphics as a new coat of paint is not much of an effort.  Yet those games are cash cows, probably bringing in more money than if they were to release two new $5 million PS3 JRPG that, after marketing, packaging, etc. requires 500,000 copies to break even, which it would be lucky to get.

I'm guessing the only way higher tier JRPGs will be developed is if it is surefire hits (Final Fantasy) or funded by the console manufacturer (Microsoft).  Otherwise, it's off to handhelds and once those get too expensive, they'll probably just start porting to smartphones.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Ichirou on December 18, 2009, 07:36:42 PM
From what I've played of the Microsoft-funded Mistwalker 360 RPGs, those are very, very old-school (i.e. "primitive") RPGs with a nice graphical coat of paint.  So not even MS funds guarantee that they're going to try to experimenting with the formula.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 18, 2009, 07:44:47 PM
On a serious note, I think there is this misconcepion that JRPG's in this country were ever a massive market. I think that idea somehow got tied to the playstation brand and when the playstation didn't win this gen combined with the rise of the handheld market (especially in Japan) there is this idea that the JRPG is dead in America. When really only Final Fantasy has ever sold over here because its the closest one to Western Gaming and story telling sensibilities.

American video game media really don't cover the handheld market so the misconception gets continued. JRPG's simply moved to the format where a large portion of their home market moved.

As far as the evolution idea, it's hard to really believe that is true at least compared to Western RPG's which are still doing LOTR rips combined with evil/good systems from Kotor. Although they have been smart about making hybrid genres like Fallout 3, Mass Effect, that can tap into a wider market. I think what Western RPG's have done which is smarter is that for the most part they are more accessible than they use to be and they raised their production values a lot to compete with other modern genres.

It also may help that JRPG on consoles seem to be less good at this moment in time than at other times and Western RPG's are sort of making better games for mainstream consumers than they have in the past at this moment and time. Star Ocean, Lost Odysessy, etc. These are not classic games.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Ichirou on December 18, 2009, 07:47:03 PM
DS has a ridiculous amount of JRPGs on it.  I personally can't keep up.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: chronovore on December 18, 2009, 07:54:36 PM
I'll play Fallout and Dragon Age, and I've got a copy of Oblivion, but I am just entirely uninterested in JRPGs. Whether or not there is an actual choice in either class is arguable. No matter what you do, there's a case that's been written for it specifically, with the possible exception being FO3's pastische presentation. Until we have something like progressive texturing and dynamic dungeon generation which works for stories, this is always going to be the case.

The difference is largely a question of presentation. JRPGs are fond of presenting things like spreadsheets, with additions and subtractions coming off the proper columns. As the generations have rolled onward, WRPGs have worked to obscure this basic mechanic, ostensibly to immerse the player more in the story and environment.

In contrast whenever I see a movie or screenshot from the latest RPGs, they've got that spreadsheet interaction on display with bells and whistles. In some ways it is an embracing of the material as the object itself. It seems to say, "This RPG -is- a spreadsheet. Enjoy the interaction for what it is: numeric." It may be an extension of the wabi-sabi aesthetic found in art and architecture here, where the object is celebrated for what it is: if concrete is used, it is not hidden or painted over, but shown off fully, naked and raw.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: magus on December 18, 2009, 08:03:03 PM
I don't think JRPG developers are even trying unless they're getting funded by Microsoft or something like that.  They've pretty much just bailed out to the handhelds, where they can rack up millions of dollars releasing (or re-releasing) SNES and first gen PSOne era shit.
here's what i think,square is picking it's nose,konami is in coma,capcom wants only to do game featuring zombie,who remain to make JRPG beside atlus and N1?

i can't really talk since i don't really care about WRPG but i only see bioware rpg around so the situation is even worse than those of JRPG


WRPGs aren't much better but at least the WRPG developers are trying.

Porting Dragon Quest IV is not much of an effort.  Porting Final Fantasy IV and slapping extremely crude graphics as a new coat of paint is not much of an effort.  Yet those games are cash cows, probably bringing in more money than if they were to release two new $5 million PS3 JRPG that, after marketing, packaging, etc. requires 500,000 copies to break even, which it would be lucky to get.

I'm guessing the only way higher tier JRPGs will be developed is if it is surefire hits (Final Fantasy) or funded by the console manufacturer (Microsoft).  Otherwise, it's off to handhelds and once those get too expensive, they'll probably just start porting to smartphones.

you said that WRPG are trying as in "trying to be big"?

feh why i should care about big tier RPG,have you ever heard of shiren,it's an unknown game and i think it is literaly the best rpg i've ever played (behind only chrono trigger... does the nick give away that i'm a chrono trigger tool?) expect a lenghty topic when the wii release gets near...
there is happiness to be find in smaller game,when i played "the world ends with you" i tought square got it,i was excited for sigma harmonic something that happens quite rarely these days and then square simply said "fuck it all! we do not care about this,here is a final fantasy remake!"

the problem i have with rpg but heck with this industry in general is that there are no new faces,i want more metal max (it's another awesome rpg where you drive tanks and shoot at mammoths and culturist) i want more opoona,square is finaly done with FF13 and now they are going to waste their time with another generic MMORPG that's really disheartening,i remember when parasite eve happened spontaneously so what the fuck happened now?

heck to bring the point at home,i've recently played nostalgia,it's a game that abuses every rpg troupe ever made and feature random turn based battle,i still enjoyed it for the fact that it played like any old rpg but it was a NEW game from a NEW publisher  
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Ichirou on December 18, 2009, 08:08:34 PM
What happened is that Square realized that their non-FF games sold like shit, but slap a turd with the FF name and it's guaranteed at least half a million in sales.  That's what happened.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 18, 2009, 08:13:56 PM
The other thing I think people often forget is that JRPG's won by comparison in the past simply because WRPG's weren't on the playing field.

As the PC retail market died and the Xbox came on the scene, and consoles became more PC like in featureset, games like Kotor, Morrowind, etc started getting released on the consoles where before these PC style RPG's hadn't come to prior generations of consoles. JRPGs's are a tougher sell when they are competing against a similar genre that is Western made with western sensibilites.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: ManaByte on December 18, 2009, 08:56:18 PM
To be fair, Mass Effect is only KOTOR in the dialog and good/bad systems. It's combat is different and probably why it's the first Bioware game in a long time that I've really enjoyed.

Dragon Age, on the other hand, is just KOTOR mixed with Baldur's Gate.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: bork on December 18, 2009, 11:22:40 PM
(http://i49.tinypic.com/2dt3m6a.jpg)

Man, those FF lead characters get gayer and gayer looking.  That dude looks like a chick.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: drew on December 18, 2009, 11:43:35 PM
bioware needs to shut the fuck up and get back to shining bethesda's shoes
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: tiesto on December 19, 2009, 01:47:29 AM
bioware needs to shut the fuck up and get back to shining bethesda's shoes

Yeah, even if I am gonna play a WRPG it's definitely gonna be a Bethesda game over Bioware.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Himu on December 19, 2009, 03:03:57 AM
KOTOR was fucking awful.  What is wrong with you people?

.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: etiolate on December 19, 2009, 03:42:52 AM
KOTOR was a huge let down.

Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: maxy on December 19, 2009, 03:52:07 AM
Blasphemy,KOTOR is awesome.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: cool breeze on December 19, 2009, 10:58:38 AM
I hope eventually someone will look back at the Grandia games for their amazing combat system and design a great game around it.  That's all I want in a jrpg.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: ManaByte on December 19, 2009, 11:56:05 AM
All Bioware games have the exact same game structure where after the intro mission the game gives you three or four major story locations that can be visited in any order prior to the final mission. Dragon Age appeared to change this with the "Origin" intro, but as soon as it was over it was back to same old same old Bioware.

Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: demi on December 19, 2009, 12:22:14 PM
huh? you are just as forced to visit the origin stories.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: ManaByte on December 19, 2009, 12:26:46 PM
huh? you are just as forced to visit the origin stories.

What I meant is that the origin story is different for each race...so there's some variety there.

Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Himu on December 19, 2009, 02:06:26 PM
All Bioware games have the exact same game structure where after the intro mission the game gives you three or four major story locations that can be visited in any order prior to the final mission. Dragon Age appeared to change this with the "Origin" intro, but as soon as it was over it was back to same old same old Bioware.



You forgot to add that along the way, your entire crew/clan/alliance/company/group gets decimated and you're the last of your kind.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: Bildi on December 19, 2009, 06:08:57 PM
KOTOR was fucking awful.  What is wrong with you people?

:bow
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on December 19, 2009, 06:19:59 PM
One guy saying someone else's shit stinks worse.  I have some of the most free time in the world, and rpg whatever hemisphere is an unappealing genre.


edit: well, if they ever got around to making pokemon an accessible experience I'd do that again.  Can't lie.
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on December 19, 2009, 07:05:05 PM
OH REALLY BIOWARE well obviously they haven't played Xenosaga 3 :greenshinobi
:drake
Title: Re: Bioware says you are a loser if you're playing JRPG's
Post by: demi on December 19, 2009, 08:24:43 PM
huh? you are just as forced to visit the origin stories.

What I meant is that the origin story is different for each race...so there's some variety there.



Well, no, I wouldnt really say that. They all end up the same story anyway.