THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 09:23:01 PM

Title: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 09:23:01 PM
buy it puds, let's get a big bore game together this weekend

http://kotaku.com/5437462/battlefield-1943-xbla-goes-cheap-on-last-day-of-2009
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Brehvolution on December 30, 2009, 09:25:21 PM
Willco mentioned something about getting the band back together if people start playing again.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 30, 2009, 09:34:12 PM
I'm always down for 1943  8)
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on December 30, 2009, 09:38:09 PM
Let's do it.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 09:40:18 PM
just ping me, other than tonight i'm free all weekend
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 10:30:21 PM
Why, so you can play with me? Oh wait
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 10:30:59 PM
For those on the fence, Great fun little MP shooter where the simplicity actually makes the game better. They made a lot of weird design calls that in retrospect were the absolute right calls. (unlimited ammo, reducing classes and weapons,  etc) I much preferred this game to Bad Company.

It's unfortunate that EA blew it by not doing DLC.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on December 30, 2009, 10:32:38 PM
I don't know if I'd say it's better than Bad Company; Kestastrophe and I (and Zero Hour) rediscovered Bad Company as a result of 1943, though. It's a pretty awesome shooter. I bought it full-priced and got more than my money's worth out of it.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:34:40 PM
i'd be willing to bet there'll be a Battlefield 1944: Europe at some point next year
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on December 30, 2009, 10:35:15 PM
Yeah, but by that time we'll have Bad Company 2, which looks like it may smoke Modern Warfare 2.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 10:35:37 PM
I can say I definitely preferred it to Bad Company but everybody has different tastes on these things. There was a lot about Bad Company that was fubar (like the damage model) that was fixed in 1943. Or things I just didn't flat out like about that game.

The simplicity of the game is an opinion thing but I definitely also ended up liking that more and preferred the map design. This is essentially the Battlefied Heroes concept but done correctly.

Quote from: Green Man on December 30, 2009, 10:33:33 PM
Maybe they assumed that since BC2 is far off, there wasn't a reason to.

It wouldn't have hampered that game imo. You can support two different games and attract two different audiences or overlapping audience. By not doing DLC they have actually discouraged me from buying their next download only game they do whatever that may be  since that probably won't be supported by DLC either.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:36:57 PM
i think they're gonna end up cancelling the PC version of 1943 because of how close to BC2 it would be (they might as well, anyway)
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:37:49 PM
or, that's your pre-order bonus
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on December 30, 2009, 10:39:14 PM
I say give us five maps as a standalone Summer of XBLA title (Battlefield 1944) and release 800 MS point map packs every two months. They'll make a killing.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:40:32 PM
and integrate it with the existing 43 so it's all under one interface

i'd buy them all, i want an HD market garden with destructible buildings so bad
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 10:41:33 PM
Quote from: a slime appears on December 30, 2009, 10:38:12 PM
Quote from: demi on December 30, 2009, 10:30:21 PM
Why, so you can play with me? Oh wait

That's why I gave you that point card but you whiffed out on me. THANKS :maf

NO YOU DIDNT, you havent even touched it since you bought it either. It must not be THAT good...
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 10:42:13 PM
Quote from: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:36:57 PM
i think they're gonna end up cancelling the PC version of 1943 because of how close to BC2 it would be (they might as well, anyway)

Well the funny thing is PC people were bitching anyway. First that the game was "dumbed down" and then that they were getting it late. And now they are getting it uber late.  :smug

It is weird to now release it relatively close to BC 2 but I assume they are still going through with that plan.  
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on December 30, 2009, 10:42:45 PM
That would be pretty cool, Eel. The game is immensely fun, but the repetitive maps kind of decreased my energy level as our competitive play nights wore on. I think at one point we were content to just dick around after we realized we could win any game working together as a squad.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 10:44:12 PM
Quote from: a slime appears on December 30, 2009, 10:42:41 PM
I sure did, bought one for the nephew too. Unlike you he bought and played it with me!

:bow Nephew :bow2

:piss demi :piss2

Whatever man, dont pull this bullshit on me next time then and save yourself the trouble.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:49:13 PM
pc people were probably bitching because without pc people there would never have been a bf1943

on second thought, they probably won't cancel it, it's probably finished already

would be cool if they threw an extra map in that version to make up for the wait, but i don't see that happening

sort of on-topic:  i see a lot (and i mean A LOT) of these types of MP games coming to XBL and PSN in 2010, i bet every flaccid penis at activision sprang to life when they read about the 1943 sales numbers
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 10:53:22 PM
Quote from: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:49:13 PM
pc people were probably bitching because without pc people there would never have been a bf1943

sort of on-topic:  i see a lot (and i mean A LOT) of these types of MP games coming to XBL and PSN in 2010, i bet every flaccid penis at activision sprang to life when they read about the 1943 sales numbers

That's why I laugh at PC people. They still think the world revolves around their niche when it doesn't.  :teehee That "would have never been" stuff is completely immaterial. It's a business. And business goes where the money is.

As far as online only games MP games there are few that could get away with it imo and achieve those sales numbers. Battlefield is a big name. Call of Duty is a bigger name. Big Time franchises can make a lot of money via DLC. Lesser known franchises will struggle to compete with these big name franchises that have established fanbases that will buy their DLC. Whether it is map packs or download only games.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:55:35 PM
i think you laugh at pc people because you're kind of an asshole
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eric P on December 30, 2009, 10:55:59 PM
yeah, i'll buy it tomorrow

i just snagged castle crashers today
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 10:57:13 PM
Quote from: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:55:35 PM
i think you laugh at pc people because you're kind of an asshole

I never said I wasn't.  :smug

PC whiners.  :piss2
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 11:06:11 PM
Quote from: a slime appears on December 30, 2009, 11:02:15 PM
Stoney Mason is bringing the real talk.

You know what time it is!


spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dragon Age on the PC was my GOTY. I love the PC platform just as I love consoles. The worst of their entitlement fanbase less so. Not aimed at Eel of course. Just a general statement. I digress.
[close]
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: cool breeze on December 30, 2009, 11:06:53 PM
I might pick this up but I don't know how often I'd play it.  But this is the cheapest it will probably ever be   :-\

Quote from: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:37:49 PM
or, that's your pre-order bonus

That's what I'm thinking.

Or since it's EA, it will be a code inside the case.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 11:15:33 PM
you know, i would bother to come up with a clever retort, but i'm too busy looking over the huge list of games i bought off steam for dirt cheap

so you console dudes enjoy your red rings, yellow lights, outrageously priced peripherals, nickle-and-dimed-to-death dlc, and paid peer-to-peer online, while i contemplate which of these twenty games (gifted to me for the princely sum of $50, and including GOTY nominee Batman: Arkham Asylum)

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/2687/

or these 18 games purchased on Black Friday for the same amount of $50

http://store.steampowered.com/sub/2539/

all 38 of which, btw, come to $50 less than a 120 GB HDD for the 360, or around the same price of some cacked-up "Collector's Edition" console game packaged with useless plastic trinkets and "bonus" making-of DVDs

then in 2010 i'll enjoy BF1943 and BC2 at higher res with a larger player count, superior control scheme, and relatively free of prepubes singing or shouting racial epithets

console suckers :piss2

*thread bookmarked for 2010 Annihilatee of the Year nomination*
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 30, 2009, 11:17:37 PM
<insert witty reply!>

 :smug
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:18:47 PM
You bought cheap games during a sale. Consider me surprised
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 11:19:16 PM
BF1943 on console is still awesome fyi btw!
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:20:23 PM
Man I'm so glad I waited a whole year for BF1943 to drop in price. I love buying cheap games. Console gaming ftw man.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 11:22:07 PM
Quote from: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:18:47 PM
You bought cheap games during a sale. Consider me surprised

you play games you claim to hate for dozens upon dozens of hours

nothing shocking at the bore!
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:23:13 PM
When I'm as old as you I'll reconsider what I do
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 11:23:58 PM
you keep leading such a sedentary lifestyle and you'll never make it to my age, kid
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:24:33 PM
Not with all this money I'm saving up thanks to these cheap sales!
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 11:26:09 PM
if that's the trick then i'm looking at another 100 years :smug
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:27:08 PM
Maybe Battlefield 2092 will be 600 points by then
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 11:30:04 PM
or 600 points on console, if you're demi!
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: MCD on December 30, 2009, 11:35:01 PM
Quote from: demi on December 30, 2009, 11:24:33 PM
Not with all this money I'm saving up thanks to these cheap sales!
:rofl
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: cool breeze on December 30, 2009, 11:46:00 PM
Quote from: a slime appears on December 30, 2009, 11:40:22 PM
Quote from: Green Man on December 30, 2009, 11:37:28 PM
Oh man, a Battlefield 2193 would be fantastic.

No. No it wouldn't. :maf

seriously wtf

2142 was trash...TRASH
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 31, 2009, 07:11:54 AM
Quote from: Eel O'Brian on December 30, 2009, 10:49:13 PM
sort of on-topic:  i see a lot (and i mean A LOT) of these types of MP games coming to XBL and PSN in 2010, i bet every flaccid penis at activision sprang to life when they read about the 1943 sales numbers

I thought the same thing, so I was hoping that CoD Classic would be a 1943 type game: Touched up graphics and well ported gameplay with full multiplayer support. Based on the demo, the graphics are okay, but the gameplay just feels off and 8 player multi is a bit of a joke when the PC original supported 32 players.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 31, 2009, 07:57:58 AM
I'd be down with buying it but I suspect that a game here will never materialize and if so, not include yours truly.

Is the community for this game still active?  600 points sounds like a decent deal, I've spent $7-8 on worse things.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: archie4208 on December 31, 2009, 08:12:29 AM
You could have got Battlefield 2 for $7.50 last week instead of this dumbed down trash.  PC gaming wins again. :smug

spoiler (click to show/hide)
not serious.  lay down the pitchforks demi and stoney
[close]
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Beezy on December 31, 2009, 11:03:40 AM
Not sure if I want...
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 31, 2009, 11:26:12 AM
Quote from: Beezy on December 31, 2009, 11:03:40 AM
Not sure if I want...

They nixed some of the servers so there's lots of rubberbanding lag going on.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 31, 2009, 12:08:01 PM
meh.

Mocking the insufferable worst of the PC brigade is my gimmick. Same as some mock Wiitards, Xbots, or Sony bots. It's my thang. Especially since I actually game on the PC somewhat I find them annoying and embarrassing and especially thin skinned. Which makes the trolling more fun and easy.

Quote from: demi on December 31, 2009, 11:26:12 AM
They nixed some of the servers so there's lots of rubberbanding lag going on.

To be using dedicated servers that game always had a comparative shit load of lag taking place on 360 at least. And when they "fixed it" (the problem of not having enough servers at launch) I still had problems getting into the games. It was the soul tax of playing the game.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: cool breeze on December 31, 2009, 12:28:56 PM
Quote from: Green Man on December 31, 2009, 06:32:39 AM
There was some cool stuff in 2142. I'm sure they could make a good game with the future setting.

Nothing in 2142 was cool if you played it.  You can read a feature list and see it has mechs, VTOL, movable air bases, etc. but in the game they managed to make everything seem like a bad idea.  It's like 2142 was a DICE trolling the community to prove how bad a futuristic game could be; seems like it worked since it's been modern games since.  A better "future Battlefield" game is Quake Wars, and even that wasn't too great.  You could also argue that Battlefront 2 is a better future Battlefield game.
 
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Stoney Mason on December 31, 2009, 12:30:57 PM
I never tried 2142. Something about it looked...

off.


I heard that it was shitty at launch but that it improved over time but like I said, for whatever reason I was never interested in that one. It didn't look "cool". It looked like Mechwarrior or something. I don't know.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 31, 2009, 12:34:18 PM
Apparently Titan Mode in BF2142 was so busted and laggy it was unplayable for a long time

I wish Splash Damage would've made Wolfenstein: ET2 instead of Quake Wars
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: cool breeze on December 31, 2009, 12:44:46 PM
Titan mode was a mess because they tried to have the battles on moving air bases.  It felt like your character was meant to be walking on solid ground, but since the base was constantly moving, you were jerked around.

iirc the way they improved titan mode was by not letting you move the air bases.

and for reference sake, I went into 2142 with BF1942 and BF2 being my favorite multiplayer games (they still are), and after playing and realizing it wasn't just a bad Battlefield game but a bad game in general made me pretty upset.  Even Vietnam had a lot of nice ideas after 1942 and was still very enjoyable, though, it wasn't as good as 1942 or BF2.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Kestastrophe on December 31, 2009, 01:07:26 PM
Quote from: T EXP on December 31, 2009, 07:57:58 AM
I'd be down with buying it but I suspect that a game here will never materialize and if so, not include yours truly.
We routinely got games with a few members here. I'll play with any Borito, add me.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 31, 2009, 01:10:41 PM
Yeah, add me as well, if you get it - EEL O BRIAN
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: demi on December 31, 2009, 02:11:05 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
I bought it :piss2
[close]
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 31, 2009, 02:47:48 PM
well let's play sucka
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 31, 2009, 05:16:35 PM
I'm downloading now.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 31, 2009, 05:17:56 PM
I have some stuff to do for a couple of hours, but if you want to play later let me know
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on December 31, 2009, 06:08:42 PM
I might have to wait a couple of days so I can get used to the controls since I don't play FPS much.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on December 31, 2009, 06:32:42 PM
that's cool, just let me know

it's an easy game to get the hang of, though, i suck at fps mp games and still came in first on the team a couple of times
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 01, 2010, 09:10:59 AM
Late Sunday should work for me if you're down.

The controls are getting easier but I have yet to kill anything.  I'm shooting at the shit I'm supposed to but not taking anything down.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 03, 2010, 12:02:55 AM
Eric P, Eel and I played a few rounds. Eric was pretty good. I got a few lol-worthy kills with the rocket launcher, mainly at folks dumb enough to attempt to run me over with a jeep.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 03, 2010, 12:10:40 AM
i finally caught a sniper trying to rig my tank with explosives, hopped out and beat him to death with a wrench

i think eric and shemp and i were the only people trying to capture flags most of the time :(

t exp, that works, ping me here when you want to play

Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eric P on January 03, 2010, 10:16:52 AM
this was hella fun and well worth the money

let me know if anyone is interested in getting together with this again

i need to re-learn console FPS because i had major issues with over correction to kill people
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 03, 2010, 10:32:50 AM
i'll be around the house all day, lemme know
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 03, 2010, 10:50:07 AM
I got through the tutorial but I can't fly the airplane for shit.

I added you, Eel.  I'm down whenever you're down.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 03, 2010, 11:45:59 AM
I'll play with you too. I'll be on and off all day as well.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Kestastrophe on January 03, 2010, 12:10:14 PM
I'll be on in a few hours, I have some stuff to take care of.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 03, 2010, 01:17:57 PM
i have to run a few errands, but i'll be on in about an hour
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 03, 2010, 01:57:24 PM
I added you last three as friends under Rich Manley.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eric P on January 03, 2010, 02:02:14 PM
i have to watch netflix with the gf, but i'll be on this evening.

hopefully you all haven't burnt out on it by then
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 03, 2010, 07:17:23 PM
I'll be on from now until 9 PM if anyone wants to play with me tonight.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Kestastrophe on January 03, 2010, 07:54:07 PM
Willco and Zero best get on, we got T EXP and Eel in our squad
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 03, 2010, 08:17:04 PM
Give me five minutes.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Brehvolution on January 03, 2010, 09:30:37 PM
Quote from: Kestastrophe on January 03, 2010, 07:54:07 PM
Willco and Zero best get on, we got T EXP and Eel in our squad
I can't get on til 10 at the earliest. You guys will be gone by then.  :'(
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 03, 2010, 10:01:04 PM
True, we just wrapped up! Although, maybe Eric P and I will play later.
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on January 03, 2010, 10:01:48 PM
Good game, guys.  I still got a ways to go!
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eel O'Brian on January 03, 2010, 10:02:52 PM
good times, fellas
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eric P on January 03, 2010, 10:10:42 PM
tragically i can't tonight. 

possibly tomorrow after 8 pm
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: The Fake Shemp on January 03, 2010, 10:24:15 PM
you jerk
Title: Re: Battlefield 1943 only 600 points on XBLA tomorrow
Post by: Eric P on January 03, 2010, 10:25:47 PM
work beckons tomorrow

i'm not happy about it either