THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Borys on February 21, 2010, 08:08:13 AM

Title: Game
Post by: Borys on February 21, 2010, 08:08:13 AM
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Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 21, 2010, 08:10:44 AM
For a while now, I imagined that a FF7 remake will come but it will be on the next generation of handhelds.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Jansen on February 21, 2010, 08:38:46 AM
square-enix sucks so much shit nowadays.

Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: maxy on February 21, 2010, 08:41:28 AM
Square is just horribly inefficient,they cant spend years on something and then have some cg as a result.FF need a serious reboot,new fresh people that are not afraid of taking Western RPG ideas and management with clear goals.

If they did FF7 remake now they would have 20 sec CG to show after a year.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 21, 2010, 09:00:56 AM
Why the fuck does an FF need to have western elements to it?
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Third on February 21, 2010, 09:10:50 AM
I can wait.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: WrikaWrek on February 21, 2010, 09:17:59 AM
Speaks volumes of its fanbase when they keep buying games they don't want in the hopes that a remake of a game they have already played, happens.

Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 11:09:05 AM
FF7 Already exists. If somebody wants to play that they can go play it right now. People who pine away for a remake strike me as utterly insane.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 11:09:38 AM
Why does the FF7 remake have to have FF13 level graphics, then? Do it REmake style.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 11:12:27 AM
Doesn't even have to be top of the line graphics, either.


Exactly. And that seems to be one obstacle for it being made. It shows what the developer's priorities are these days.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 11:13:33 AM
FF7 Already exists. If somebody wants to play that they can go play it right now. People who pine away for a remake strike me as utterly insane.

I agree. It'd be nice to have because FF7 has some translation issues and could use some actual gameplay depth, but to pine for it beyond insane.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 11:14:47 AM
If we go down that line let's remake everything possible then.  :yuck

FF7 existed as a game. It had flaws like any other game. It's time to move on. One of the problems with Square Enix imo is that essentially they are becoming a nostalgia company that puts out a new game only every 3 or 4 years and then contents itself with retreading out "remixed" versions of the old stuff. Let's move forward. It's 2010 already. Stop serving the audience that wants to keep reliving their childhood and serve the new audience that currently exists. 

Just my 2 cents. Of course I barely play JRPGs anymore so I'm not the base they are representing anymore but that's my outsider opinion.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 11:15:05 AM
I love how that one square guy said that you cant tell a good story in a wrpg because of all the freedom.

He said you it's HARD (not impossible, which the word "can't" implies) tell a good story in an open world game.

Prove him wrong.

If you cite Oblivion or Morrowind or even Fallout 3 as examples your argument is automatically revoked and devoid and stupid.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 21, 2010, 12:55:20 PM
Speaks volumes of its fanbase when they keep buying games they don't want in the hopes that a remake of a game they have already played, happens.

And this is why Square will NEVER remake FF7.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 01:26:53 PM
Why the fuck does an FF need to have western elements to it?

I'd like to see: no more teenboppers, real choices ingame

He said you it's HARD (not impossible, which the word "can't" implies) tell a good story in an open world game.

Prove him wrong.

If you cite Oblivion or Morrowind or even Fallout 3 as examples your argument is automatically revoked and devoid and stupid.


Mass Effect 2? Its not really open world, but you do have freedom and can make choices, which you could call ROLEPLAYING.

And yes if you want a ROLEPLAYING GAME you cant tell a 100% predefined story BECAUSE YOURE ROLEPLAYING, which in JRPGS you are not (and FF13 in specific).

Mass Effect 2 is not open world, so your argument is void. Anyways, ME2 doesn't have "compelling storytelling" either. Not that FF games have them, but his point still stands.

Also fuck this "ROLEPLAYING" crap. Giving me two decisions (typically black and white good vs evil) vs one decision isn't roleplaying.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 01:28:30 PM
Why the fuck does an FF need to have western elements to it?

I'd like to see: no more teenboppers, real choices ingame

What real choices?

Kill this guard?

Y/N

Kiss this character and make out with them?

Y/N

Most of your choices in ME1 didn't really matter much in ME2. They were superficial at best. So much for "real" choices.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 01:33:46 PM
I'm not a believer in the concept that JRPG's need to become WRPG's. That makes very little sense to me and feasibly is impossible. What I do believe is that JRPG's have to have stories that are relevant to western audiences if they want them to sell in big numbers to western audiences. They have to progress their storytelling techniques and themes if they want to sell bigger numbers here. A little cross genre pollination would help also. Fallout 3 and Mass Effect took their RPG roots and combined them with the most popular genre on the HD market. Shooters. That's how you make something relevant for the masses.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 01:36:27 PM
I'm not a believer in the concept that JRPG's need to become WRPG's. That makes very little sense to me and feasibly is impossible. What I do believe is that JRPG's have to have stories that are relevant to western audiences if they want them to sell in big numbers to western audiences. They have to progress their storytelling techniques and themes if they want to sell bigger numbers here.

Completely agreed.

Jrpgs are about the combat/stat side of rpgs. wrpgs are about the side that allows "choice" and making your own story.

They have their own uses and expertise but one area jrpgs could really use a boost is the storytelling department. The gameplay has evolved in a lot of diversive ways, but the stories (unless I'm playing a SMT game) aren't really much of an evolution. But that could be said about almost all genres, as well.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 01:44:19 PM
You're weaboo roots are showing Himuro. Two choices are more then none and thus more roleplaying. Also you dont need cinematics every 10 sec to tell a story, Fallout 3 tells a better story then most Final Fantasies and that without much narrative.

I have weeaboo roots because I tell the truth? I didn't say you have cutscenes to tell a story, either. Fallout 3's story, or rather its plot, is pretty non-existent. It is constantly a search for your father. It's full of lore, and history, and various characters, but the result is a disjointed experience which is common for open world games. It doesn't have very good use of storytelling.

Shadow of the Colossus barely has any cutscenes at all and it has good storytelling. Portal has no cutcenes except the ending and its storytelling is great.

I'm not even arguing Fallout 3 doesn't have better storytelling than the typical FF game. But that doesn't make its storytelling good either.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 01:50:40 PM
Fallout 3's storytelling isn't great; nor is it's story.

It's pretty good considering it comes from the guys what made The Elder Scrolls.

Totally, and they have the source material to thank for that.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 01:55:30 PM
Let's be honest here. Most WRPG's have shit stories. And to be honest it's because they don't focus on that. They focus on giving you a wealth of options so it almost becomes a create your story experience but the core story is generally not some emotional, great thing. Fallout 3 is a great game but its not because of the "story". It's because you are in this open world and you create your own moment to moment experiences. There are some execpetions. I think Mass Effect has a good over arching story but its still not the strength of the genre yet.

In theory that should be the strength of the JRPG. When I played JRPG's that is generally why I played them. The problem there is that the characters and storytelling stuff they have been using for so long that was once fine has become rote, cliched, and tiresome. It simply doesn't appeal to most western gamers. But the linear aspect of them isn't necessarily the problem. A good linear story is fine. That is the way most game stories in fact work.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Bebpo on February 21, 2010, 01:55:53 PM
Well all storytelling in games is shit if youre being honest. By book standards that is.

Its just that Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Witcher are considerably better then another loli anime jrpg.

wtffffff


Also every FF thread sucks
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 02:08:41 PM
Let's be honest here. Most WRPG's have shit stories. And to be honest it's because they don't focus on that. They focus on giving you a wealth of options so it almost becomes a create your story experience but the core story is generally not some emotional, great thing. Fallout 3 is a great game but its not because of the "story". It's because you are in this open world and you create your own moment to moment experiences. There are some execpetions. I think Mass Effect has a good over arching story but its still not the strength of the genre yet.

In theory that should be the strength of the JRPG. When I played JRPG's that is generally why I played them. The problem there is that the characters and storytelling stuff they have been using for so long that was once fine has become rote, cliched, and tiresome. It simply doesn't appeal to most western gamers. But the linear aspect of them isn't necessarily the problem. A good linear story is fine. That is the way most game stories in fact work.

Aside from Final Fantasy though, jrpgs aren't really story centric. I've always attributed wrpgs to being story centric (and gameplay = story type philosophy) while jrpgs were heavily gameplay based. Though the blockbuster jrpgs like Final Fantay and Kingdom Hearts try to melt players hearts and cry and shit, those are in fact, the exception.

That's how I've looked at it for years.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 02:11:53 PM
Well all storytelling in games is shit if youre being honest. By book standards that is.

Its just that Fallout 3, Mass Effect, Witcher are considerably better then another loli anime jrpg.

I played the first ten minutes of the witcher and turned it off because of the combat. It was really that bad.

It seems that wrpgs concentrate on the story so much that other areas (particularly the gameplay) suffers as a result. Or something. I get the same thing with games like Drakensang and Risen and their respective demos. At least, when it comes to 3d wrpgs. I can get into 2d wrpg gameplay, but 3d wrpg gameplay often makes me want to barf. Like, Vampires: Bloodlines has great dialgue and writing, and then has one of the most boring ass combat systems I've ever played.

Guess that's my "weeaboo roots" showing through. I've always been more interested in mechanics and gameplay than trite "stories".

This is partly why I liked DA:O so much: the combat.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 02:20:40 PM
Aside from Final Fantasy though, jrpgs aren't really story centric. I've always attributed wrpgs to being story centric (and gameplay = story type philosophy) while jrpgs were heavily gameplay based. Though the blockbuster jrpgs like Final Fantay and Kingdom Hearts try to melt players hearts and cry and shit, those are in fact, the exception.

That's how I've looked at it for years.

WRPG to me are quest based. They are about doing tons of random irrevelant missions to stat boost. There are always execptions of course. But the storytelling in WRPGs has historically generally been awful. Not to mention their storytelling technique were simply walls of text coupled with awful character animation and poor presentation. You can get away with that in WRPG's because the strengths are placed in different areas. As they have moved to consoles they have tried to improve on that because they are trying to expand beyond the niche they occupied.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 02:26:37 PM
I agree about that irrelevant quest note. The only wprgs who's quests (if we're going to classify them as wrpgs) don't really bother me are Diablo-like games. Because they don't attempt to hide the fact you're doing irrelevant quests just to stat boost as opposed to offering "choice". They're just straight-forward and clearly about stats, look, and customization.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 02:54:24 PM
Stoney, Himuro have you guys NOT played Baldur's Gate saga?

There are exceptions on the WRPG side just like there are on the JRPG side. The top of food chain often exhibits characteristics that that most of the rest of the genre doesn't.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 21, 2010, 02:56:59 PM
Planescape: Torment :rock
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: BlueTsunami on February 21, 2010, 03:02:10 PM
Honestly, from a video game I'd rather me be left to my own devices within the game world if the scenario written is absolutely horrible. Being strung along in a linear game where you couldn't care less about anything about the story that's just a shit game from top to bottom.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 03:05:05 PM
Yeah, for a moment I thought you guys maybe didn't know about BG2 :lol

If I was giving out plaudits Bioware in general would be a company that was worthy of them. From old school, to Kotor, to Dragon Age, to Mass Effect, they are a western company that actually wants to move story telling forward within their genre. Not that every RPG has to play like a Bioware RPG or have their specific focus, or not that they don't ever has misses (I'm looking at you Jade Empire) but there is a reason they have the position they have and that WRPG's have made a resurgence in recent years.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 03:11:22 PM
Honestly, from a video game I'd rather me be left to my own devices within the game world if the scenario written is absolutely horrible. Being strung along in a linear game where you couldn't care less about anything about the story that's just a shit game from top to bottom.

The flip side of this of course is that being dumped into a relatively empty and boring world without much motivation or backstory also isn't preferable to me which is a problem I had with Betheda games up until Fallout 3 or Risen which I recently dropped. When people attack WRPG's for being bland and lifeless this is the experience they are talking about.

I have no real dog in this fight. I can like a WRPG as much as a JRPG. The problem imo is simpy they haven't been making enough good JRPG's recently especially on the HD consoles.

To pull from another genre, Uncharted 2 seems to be very popular with a lot of people even though its a completely linear experience from both the story and gameplay perspective. I know its a different genre but my point is more that people often focus too much on linear versus open world rather than good or bad. Both are viable options. You just have to execute properly which ever path you take.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 03:28:06 PM
Stoney, Himuro have you guys NOT played Baldur's Gate saga?

There are exceptions on the WRPG side just like there are on the JRPG side. The top of food chain often exhibits characteristics that that most of the rest of the genre doesn't.

Yeah, for a moment I thought you guys maybe didn't know about BG2 :lol

BG2 is an exception and my favorite wrpg.

Also, Planescape despite having great storytelling has gameplay issues BECAUSE of its storytelling. It's not the type of game I play because it's fun.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 03:29:29 PM
Stoney, Himuro have you guys NOT played Baldur's Gate saga?

There are exceptions on the WRPG side just like there are on the JRPG side. The top of food chain often exhibits characteristics that that most of the rest of the genre doesn't.

Yeah, for a moment I thought you guys maybe didn't know about BG2 :lol

You mean the game I have mentioned multiple times on this forum?
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 03:32:25 PM
Honestly, from a video game I'd rather me be left to my own devices within the game world if the scenario written is absolutely horrible. Being strung along in a linear game where you couldn't care less about anything about the story that's just a shit game from top to bottom.

The flip side of this of course is that being dumped into a relatively empty and boring world without much motivation or backstory also isn't preferable to me which is a problem I had with Betheda games up until Fallout 3 or Risen which I recently dropped. When people attack WRPG's for being bland and lifeless this is the experience they are talking about.

I have no real dog in this fight. I can like a WRPG as much as a JRPG. The problem imo is simpy they haven't been making enough good JRPG's recently especially on the HD consoles.

To pull from another genre, Uncharted 2 seems to be very popular with a lot of people even though its a completely linear experience from both the story and gameplay perspective. I know its a different genre but my point is more that people often focus too much on linear versus open world rather than good or bad. Both are viable options. You just have to execute properly which ever path you take.

I dunno. The only wrpgs this gen I'd hail as being legitimately great are Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3. On the other hand, I also liken Vaklyria Chronicles and Demon's Souls as great.

There's a lot of trashy and boring jrpgs just like there's a lot of trashy and boring wrpgs.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 21, 2010, 03:37:03 PM
I dunno. The only wrpgs this gen I'd hail as being legitimately great are Dragon Age, Mass Effect 2 and Fallout 3. On the other hand, I also liken Vaklyria Chronicles and Demon's Souls as great.

There's a lot of trashy and boring jrpgs just like there's a lot of trashy and boring wrpgs.

I'm speaking as far as solely where my taste lie and in a general sense what Western gamers are playing.

Oblivion, Fallout 3, Dragon Age, Mass Effect 1 & 2, (You can probably put the Fable series in there as well) have all been popular well received, well reviewed, and good selling games. When people talk about "RPG's" this gen, this is what normal people think of. They aren't thinking about JRPG's. This is more what I'm talking about. Why one genre is on the rise and the other genre isn't in this country. Not sort of my personal evaluative take, although even if I was doing that JRPG's this gen wouldn't do so well in comparison.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 03:38:14 PM
Oh. You're right.

My stance was fighting the typical "there's no good jrpgs this gen, jrpgs are dead, yadda yadda" "Oh Demon's Souls? That's not a jrpg, that's a wrpg lol"

While ignoring great games like Persona 4, Etrian Odyssey, Demon's Souls and Valkyria Chronicles. It just seems like almost every pro-wrpg fan I encounter who trashes jrpgs regularly really hasn't played a jrpg in about 10 years and is mostly ignorant of the genre.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: BlueTsunami on February 21, 2010, 03:44:03 PM
I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 03:47:58 PM
I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: BlueTsunami on February 21, 2010, 03:55:00 PM
I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 03:58:30 PM
jrpgs aren't dead, they're just scattered all over the place. It's not like last gen where every notable jrpg was on the ps2.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: BlueTsunami on February 21, 2010, 04:03:50 PM
And I'm not against JRPGs and definitely am not the type that would discount all of them. Shit I mean, I played Jade Cocoon 2 recently and pretty much universally love Dragon Quest! I've just been really dissatisfied with the Easts 360/PS3 offerings. I'm also hoping vXIII isn't vaporware.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 21, 2010, 04:04:48 PM
I"m just so tired of the wrpg vs jrpg debates on gaf. It makes me hate both camps.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: demi on February 21, 2010, 05:15:31 PM
I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

??? TLR is on 360/PC and one of THE best JRPGs to come out in a long time. You are a PCtard, educate yourself and play a good game. Thank me later
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: MCD on February 21, 2010, 05:21:46 PM
(http://i48.tinypic.com/28c3b0n.png)
JRPGs
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 21, 2010, 06:35:28 PM
I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

Did they say that HD is hard?  I just assumed that because ports sell so well that they just decided to port shit instead of develop new stuff.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: BlueTsunami on February 21, 2010, 06:49:22 PM
I agree with JRPGs not being strong this generation and its funny that the least uguu of them all (Demons Souls) has been so strongly received (though on the flipside there is Valkyria Chronicles). But those are two games doing innovative things when placed in context with other JRPG offerings. SquareEnix needs to bring in new blood that can think outside the box. Though from what I've heard (on message boards) it seems all their real talent is in the MMO segment (FFXI and now FFXIV).

What about The Last Remnant, Etrian Odyssey, Persona 3, The World Ends With You, and (although they're not of this gen they came out at the beginning of the gen) Final Fantasy XII and Valkyrie Profile 2?

That's 8 games, all with their own play style, and their own innovative twist on the genre all release in the past 4 years.

But jrpgs are supposedly dead and defunct. The hypocrisy is hilarious in both camps, but especially hilarious from the wrpg camp.

Can't argue with most of those games but as you stated they are not of this generation and if the "HD is hard" sentiment is any indicator, JRPGs are dead (so far as we've seen). Western developers are just way more conducive and accepting of the challenges that have come with this new generation.

Did they say that HD is hard?  I just assumed that because ports sell so well that they just decided to port shit instead of develop new stuff.

I don't have the direct quote on hand but the director on FFXIII stated something along the lines of creating HD assets for these games is a time consuming process. So it may be one of the reasons why they had completely removed town like areas in FFXIII and went for something much simpler.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 22, 2010, 12:58:26 AM
Quote
It couldn't take that long; they already have all the art design and character design and script and music and damn near everything.  They even have all the high-res models and resources from Advent Children.

What an absurd, false thing to say.

While it's true SE seems to still have a very inefficient HD dev process, you are VASTLY overestimating how much time/work having the original version would save them.  The core elements you list, while obviously very important, are generally designed by a small group of key developers and would account for maybe 5% of the total work required, since creating the actual game assets takes hundreds of people. As for the Advent Children stuff, you're talking about creating a handful of locations that only need to work for the specific shots required by the movie, vs. creating a vast world (besides that most of the stuff in the movie is different from what's in the game anyway ...)
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 22, 2010, 01:01:29 AM
Quote
Exactly. And that seems to be one obstacle for it being made. It shows what the developer's priorities are these days.

Wouldn't the higher production values be much of the point of an HD remake, though?  Otherwise why not play the original?
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Raban on February 22, 2010, 03:57:49 AM
I think if they were to remake FF7, it should be with HD pre-rendered backgrounds, and just re-done in-game sprites. We've seen Midgar in 3D (Crisis Core) and it's boring as fuck.

The battle system shouldn't be touched aside from maybe speeding it up and being a little "bigger" (more enemies in a battle, maybe even a party of four or five during battle, similar to olskoo FF).

I don't really care for FF7, but if they just touched it up, I'd buy it. They don't seem to have any problem half-assing ports of their pre-PS1 games, why not do the same for everything after?

I'm not saying it should suck, but whoever thinks making FF7 more like FF13 would be an improvement must be doing some strong drugs.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Ichirou on February 22, 2010, 05:17:43 AM
There were no sprites in FFVII.  The characters were polygonal.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Ichirou on February 22, 2010, 05:31:54 AM
Only difference is that Lucas did all those special editions and shit on his own initiative.  All the diehard Star Wars fans want is good-quality transfers of the original films as they were theatrically released, none of this special edition bullshit.

This is pure fanwank, the squeenix fanboys/girls are the ones who are demanding this shit, and Square Enix keeps telling them "NO."
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 22, 2010, 05:42:07 AM
I don't think too many are demanding a remake but given SE's strategy of just rehashing shit, it is inevitable that FF7 will get remade sometime this decade.  Even then, it is just a small portion of their fanbase, I suspect.  The FF7 spinoffs didn't light the sales charts on fire.  The market that demands this remake is smaller than we think.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Green Shinobi on February 22, 2010, 08:37:03 AM
Thinking about torrenting the PC version of FF7 to see how it held up.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: tiesto on February 22, 2010, 08:53:32 AM
FF7 Already exists. If somebody wants to play that they can go play it right now. People who pine away for a remake strike me as utterly insane.

I'd be happy with a direct port with a re-translation, honestly.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Raban on February 22, 2010, 10:32:47 AM
I don't think too many are demanding a remake but given SE's strategy of just rehashing shit, it is inevitable that FF7 will get remade sometime this decade.  Even then, it is just a small portion of their fanbase, I suspect.  The FF7 spinoffs didn't light the sales charts on fire.  The market that demands this remake is smaller than we think.

While this might be true now, it wasn't before. I remember reading that a special edition of Advent Childen, of which only 777,777 copies were made, and which cost $700 (if I'm not mistaken), sold out in a day.

SE kind of fucked themselves by making every spin-off in the FF7 universe absolute shit (AC included), so now the only people that really want an FF7 remake are the take-a-bullet fanboys.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 22, 2010, 11:54:51 AM
Barrett said "shit" and "ass" or whatever every other sentence. It's the only FF I can think of that does, in fact. 
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: MCD on February 22, 2010, 12:07:59 PM
how rude.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: OptimoPeach on February 22, 2010, 12:42:56 PM
Quote
-The little midget look gave em charm.

Chibi world sprites were kind of a staple of classic FF, sure, but they felt out of place in FFVII, and like most early PSX characters, they look terrible nowadays, whereas those sprites still hold up.
As poorly as those squatty character models from 7 and 9 have aged, I still favor them over 8. That blocky polygonal style is silly enough to be endearing, but the pseudo-realistic crap in 8 is just...yucky. And I think a lot of the authentically zany humor was much easier to pull of before they opted for visual realism in all its dryness
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Green Shinobi on February 22, 2010, 01:08:07 PM
The problem with FF8 is that they were trying to go for realism before they really had the ability to pull it off.

It's like looking at pre-Renaissance religious paintings.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Powerslave on February 22, 2010, 01:17:37 PM
I agree with Wrath's reasons. Also Cloud WAS a cocky asshole for the most part of the game. He wasn't "emo". Just because he has mental issues doesn't mean he's emo.

Kinda struck me that there's like, one black guy in the world, and he's stupid as hell and curses in every sentence.  Good ol' Squaresoft.

There are more black people in the game, the only one I can think of now is one of Don Corneo's goons in the torture basement.


back to the topic at hand... fuck a FF7 remake. The game is a masterpiece already, a remake would only butcher it cause it sure as hell won't be exactly remade, tons of stuff will be altered.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: MCD on February 22, 2010, 01:20:17 PM
i tried to play it again via psn some time ago but it was too easy for my taste.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Powerslave on February 22, 2010, 01:52:39 PM
yes, voice acting is the one department where I foresee massive failure. I don't want them to be voiced.

About FF7's graphics.. I think it's fucking charming ok. I'm not even gonna pussy out like most guys and say "it looks outdated but it's not toooo bad". I think it looks awesome.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 22, 2010, 03:01:14 PM
8 is the only one of the PS 1 era I never played. So many people dislike that one that I sort of have a burning desire to play it.

9 I remember liking quite a bit. It was "charming" and less hip and serious from 7 from what I remember but I haven't played it in years so I'm going from memory.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Third on February 22, 2010, 03:02:29 PM
FF8 is amazing dood. Screw the haters.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Stoney Mason on February 22, 2010, 03:05:18 PM
FF8 is amazing dood. Screw the haters.

I'll eventually get around to it. I always keep an open mind and my tastes often conflict with conventional hardcore gamer group think.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: cool breeze on February 22, 2010, 03:17:31 PM
They can do it for the PSP2/DS2.  Don't think either of those would be past Wii graphics, and isn't Japan all aggro for portable games?

I don't really care for a direct remake.  I like the style of FF7, or at least FF7 back then before the crappy spin-offs changed the style up to swords with sword in them or zipper capes or gackt.  I'd totally buy it if they made it 10 hours long, had it end at the Golden Saucer, and used a Grandia-style battle system.

wait, doesn't Square-Enix own the rights to Grandia? fuck them for not doing Grandia 4 on any system.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on February 22, 2010, 03:18:21 PM
FF8 is the best PSX FF, easily

FF7 has aged poorly and FF9 was never good to begin with
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: cool breeze on February 22, 2010, 03:22:36 PM
Ehrgeiz was the real best PS1 final fantasy

yo-yo girl > Zell
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: maxy on February 22, 2010, 03:24:39 PM
FF8 sucks.
FF9 rules and it is the best looking  PSX FF.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on February 22, 2010, 03:33:26 PM
I'd personally like a port/remake of FF9 that just upped the resolution/framerate and did away with the ridiculous battle load times.  Oh, and made the Auto-Potion effects happen simultaneously if you have it on multiple characters.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: demi on February 22, 2010, 03:34:23 PM
I heard Patel is the mastermind behind squallisdead.com

Rumor has it he proved that Aeris in fact, died
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on February 22, 2010, 03:38:32 PM
Arguing about old Final Fantasies on the Internet is completely pointless, but...

I like 8. I like that its setting isn't bog-standard fantasy nonsense. I like its characters. I like that it's one of the first "modern" games in terms of scope and consistency. I like that it was localized and proofread, not just translated. I like its love story and I like its huge-ass goofy scope. The plot is dumb but it's twisty and compelling. The gameplay isn't great but if you FAQ how to get Guardian Forces and abuse status Junctions with 100-draw, you can avoid having to sit through the lengthy summons.

It's the only PSX FF I could ever, EVER imagine myself playing nowadays. For that, alone, it could be worth giving a shot.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 22, 2010, 03:50:04 PM
FF8 is the best PSX FF, easily

FF7 has aged poorly and FF9 was never good to begin with

:bow :bow :bow
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on February 22, 2010, 04:00:42 PM
FF8 gave us Metreon Rinoa :bow2

(http://goviolet.com/board/metreon-rinoa.jpg)
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: iconoclast on February 22, 2010, 05:36:35 PM
Spoony is pretty funny but he needs to stop with his distinguished mentally-challenged skits with Dr. Insano. So annoying and rarely funny. He did a video review of the Ultimate Warrior's comic book too, now that one was gold.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on February 22, 2010, 06:26:28 PM
I think most people hate FF8 because they didn't know how to play it and sucked badly at it as a result, probably expecting a reskinned FF7.  It was a very different RPG than its peers.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: demi on February 22, 2010, 06:32:50 PM
I think most people hate FF8 because they didn't know how to play it and sucked badly at it as a result, probably expecting a reskinned FF7.  It was a very different RPG than its peers.

No, I'm gonna stick with my theory that it just overall sucks
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: MCD on February 22, 2010, 06:41:53 PM
yeah, ff8 is just bad.

enjoy drawing your fucking magic and running like an idiot for money.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Ichirou on February 22, 2010, 06:52:43 PM
FF8 was pretty awesome.  I was never a fan of FF7, but I don't know if that's because the game sucked or if it's because I was just turned off by the incredibly shoddy translation.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: magus on February 22, 2010, 06:58:20 PM
FF8 is the best PSX FF, easily

FF7 has aged poorly and FF9 was never good to begin with
i swear this thread looked kind of wrong and stupid but i guess this is where it really crossed the line  :-\
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Trent Dole on February 22, 2010, 07:00:58 PM
FF8 is the best PSX FF, easily

FF7 has aged poorly and FF9 was never good to begin with
i swear this thread looked kind of wrong and stupid but i guess this is where it really crossed the line  :-\
This thread is  wrong and stupid cause it's an FF thread. :smug
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: magus on February 22, 2010, 07:03:49 PM
FF8 is the best PSX FF, easily

FF7 has aged poorly and FF9 was never good to begin with
i swear this thread looked kind of wrong and stupid but i guess this is where it really crossed the line  :-\
This thread is  wrong and stupid cause it's an FF thread. :smug

i should be angry about this but since i've never seen a thread about FF that isn't wrong and stupid i'll concede the argument  >:(
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on February 22, 2010, 07:47:05 PM
FF9 is the absolute nadir of human achievement
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 22, 2010, 08:33:33 PM
people who don't like ff8 will be against the wall when the revolution comes

spoiler (click to show/hide)
ass cheeks spread out, preferably
[close]
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Ichirou on February 22, 2010, 08:35:15 PM
I liked FF8 a lot, my favorite of the PSX FFs.  Still don't think I'd ever replay it, though.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: BlueTsunami on February 22, 2010, 08:45:01 PM
I so agree with the dislike for FFIX. Such a boring game. The only good thing about it was the Chocobo Hot&Cold minigame.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 22, 2010, 08:48:46 PM
i actually liked ff9 more when i replayed it two years ago. the main issue is the battle system (or rather, the slowness of it), but the weapon synthesis, and ap weapon/armor/accessory ability system keeps me coming back.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Ichirou on February 22, 2010, 09:27:21 PM
Wait, IX isn't V, VI, or VIII, hence it's not one of the three best FFs.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Ichirou on February 22, 2010, 09:37:01 PM
I think XIII is probably in the running for worst entry in the main series now. :teehee
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 22, 2010, 11:13:13 PM
I used to not "get" 12. But it finally clicked and it's now in my top five FFs:

FF5, FF6, FF8, FF12, and FF4.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: cool breeze on February 22, 2010, 11:18:10 PM
sounds like stockholm syndrome

 
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Great Rumbler on February 22, 2010, 11:19:05 PM
IX had a really awesome overworld theme:

[youtube=560,345]OL0HVjyK4j8[/youtube]

[youtube=560,345]L2_aYQyn9VE[/youtube]
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Powerslave on February 23, 2010, 12:05:50 AM
lmao you guys keep arguing about mundane bullshit. The fact is that all 3 PS1 Final Fantasy games are fucking awesome, not equally but still. Poor babies, keep giving each other lame reasons why you think one of those games suck.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Himu on February 23, 2010, 12:06:22 AM
lmao you guys keep arguing about mundane bullshit. The fact is that all 3 PS1 Final Fantasy games are fucking awesome, not equally but still. Poor babies, keep giving each other lame reasons why you think one of those games suck.

i agree that they're all good to some degree.
Title: Re: FF7 Remake would take 12 years to develop
Post by: Don Flamenco on February 23, 2010, 12:14:09 AM
I love VII, but the beginnings of VIII and IX turned me off. i've tried playing through them both a couple times each :teehee 

of course, I caught on with FFVII right away...from the Tobal demo to launch day, I was hyped to shit for it.  then after I beat VII, which was the first RPG I played in years, I didn't try another until FFX.  and after that, I went back and tried the other PS1 games.