Did you see any Tea Partiers that weren't white?
Did you see any Tea Partiers that weren't white?
:rofl
Can someone explain to me what this tea party shit is? is it angry white people that don't want their taxes to help the dirty poor?
i would explain my situation and why a lot of this stuff is going to leave me more screwed than i am right now, but it's pretty obvious none of you would really give a fuck and it would just be a waste of my timeIn what way bro? I'll listen.
i would explain my situation and why a lot of this stuff is going to leave me more screwed than i am right now, but it's pretty obvious none of you would really give a fuck and it would just be a waste of my timeIn what way bro? I'll listen.
Beginning in 2014, you will receive tax credits to help afford insurance premiums in the new exchanges as well as assistance with deductibles and co-payments. According to your income and family size, the tax credits will ensure you do not spend more than $1528.38 to $1952.93 on premiums. Your maximum out-of-pocket costs for deductibles and co-payments would be capped at 27% of the total cost.
so i'm gonna have to make another choice that year, to either pay the 1500 i definitely know i can't afford, or not pay it and take the 700-800 penalty i can't afford but have to anywayNot sure if you know this or not, but you can pay estimates, which are periodic payments (I think its quarterly) instead of paying one lump sum or suffering fines. Your taxes sound high for your income, but I am not up on tax code the last few years. How are you doing your taxes?
so i'm gonna have to make another choice that year, to either pay the 1500 i definitely know i can't afford, or not pay it and take the 700-800 penalty i can't afford but have to anywayNot sure if you know this or not, but you can pay estimates, which are periodic payments (I think its quarterly) instead of paying one lump sum or suffering fines. Your taxes sound high for your income, but I am not up on tax code the last few years. How are you doing your taxes?
What's your fucking point? I quoted the only part of his post I addressed.so i'm gonna have to make another choice that year, to either pay the 1500 i definitely know i can't afford, or not pay it and take the 700-800 penalty i can't afford but have to anywayNot sure if you know this or not, but you can pay estimates, which are periodic payments (I think its quarterly) instead of paying one lump sum or suffering fines. Your taxes sound high for your income, but I am not up on tax code the last few years. How are you doing your taxes?
He's not talking about estimated payments, he's talking about the cost of mandated healthcare.
What's your fucking point? I quoted the only part of his post I addressed.so i'm gonna have to make another choice that year, to either pay the 1500 i definitely know i can't afford, or not pay it and take the 700-800 penalty i can't afford but have to anywayNot sure if you know this or not, but you can pay estimates, which are periodic payments (I think its quarterly) instead of paying one lump sum or suffering fines. Your taxes sound high for your income, but I am not up on tax code the last few years. How are you doing your taxes?
He's not talking about estimated payments, he's talking about the cost of mandated healthcare.
i normally stay out of the political threads, as far as the social/civil stuff goes i am with you all on most of it
but when i see a lot of things written here lately, and when it jumps out of the politics thread and into other areas, i just think to myself "Man, these people just really don't give a shit how this is gonna fuckhammer people like me, if i even try to comment and state my side of it i'm just gonna be jumped on as some sort of teabagger or labeled as selfish or whatever"
so give me a witty one-liner, tell me with a straight face that i am not going to end up extra fucked, and i'll be sure and chuckle over it while i'm grocery shopping at the dollar store this weekend
I'd take the current bill over the status quo, knowing full well that it's gonna fuckhammer some people. I just happen to know other people who are getting raped in the current system and stand to benefit a ton. In the end I give them more weight cause I know them personally and because it involves not being able to get coverage for life-threatening diseases because they've got life-threatening diseases.As hard as it to say to someone in Eel's position there is probably at least 5 people for everyone in his situation who is going to greatly benefit from this new program. It's not a great bill but it is going to help a ton of people. And the mandate is part of that element that will help.
O, you are correct, that's exactly what I thought :lol. Sorry for the shitty tone in my post :-\
It's kinda risky to go around with out insurance, what happens if you get cancer?
It's kinda risky to go around with out insurance, what happens if you get cancer?
...
Can you get on the new govt program that is part of the bill for those who can't afford to purchase it?I'd take the current bill over the status quo, knowing full well that it's gonna fuckhammer some people. I just happen to know other people who are getting raped in the current system and stand to benefit a ton. In the end I give them more weight cause I know them personally and because it involves not being able to get coverage for life-threatening diseases because they've got life-threatening diseases.As hard as it to say to someone in Eel's position there is probably at least 5 people for everyone in his situation who is going to greatly benefit from this new program. It's not a great bill but it is going to help a ton of people. And the mandate is part of that element that will help.
I know a few people who will be tangibly helped by this bill and that makes everything worth it. Some may struggle to have to pay for insurance now that it is mandated that they otherwise would use for other things but that is just part of everyone doing their part, nothing comes completely free.
It isn't smug to be happy and proud of this program. I don't get why he sees it that way. We wouldn't be happy with it if it didn't help people. And this law helps people despite not being perfect.
I know people who will helped by this law, a lot of people in fact. And I don't think a real single expert (not us fake internet-politico's) on health care would argue more people will be in Eel's position over the position of people being helped by the law.Can you get on the new govt program that is part of the bill for those who can't afford to purchase it?I'd take the current bill over the status quo, knowing full well that it's gonna fuckhammer some people. I just happen to know other people who are getting raped in the current system and stand to benefit a ton. In the end I give them more weight cause I know them personally and because it involves not being able to get coverage for life-threatening diseases because they've got life-threatening diseases.As hard as it to say to someone in Eel's position there is probably at least 5 people for everyone in his situation who is going to greatly benefit from this new program. It's not a great bill but it is going to help a ton of people. And the mandate is part of that element that will help.
I know a few people who will be tangibly helped by this bill and that makes everything worth it. Some may struggle to have to pay for insurance now that it is mandated that they otherwise would use for other things but that is just part of everyone doing their part, nothing comes completely free.
It isn't smug to be happy and proud of this program. I don't get why he sees it that way. We wouldn't be happy with it if it didn't help people. And this law helps people despite not being perfect.
Hate to break it to you, but you sound pretty smug.
The bill sucks, but I've said that all along.It's not single payer which is the ideal. But its 1000x better than the status quo and is the best thing we could have gotten out of this current congress and we likely would have got nothing out of the next congress. It helps far too many people to just say it sucks.
I have no reason to hate this law.
You're abstracting away some very real hardships
It absolutely, positively does not address costs - which will go up - and it will be a burden on many.I thought the whole point of mandatory coverage was to increase the insurance pool, thus lowering costs?
It's another thing to tell the losers that they should also like it, especially in a way that's dismissive of their grievances, especially in a way that treats them like simpletons ("what if you got cancer?"), especially by citing benefits to other people who already have it easier than them.I don't think he should have to like it, he has a rather sound reason for not liking it. I just don't think its fair to say its smug to support and praise the law as if there isn't a ton of good in there worth being ecstatic about it's passage. I am more frustrated and tired of always having to defend it (more irl than say here) rather than wanting to rub it in peoples faces which is not the impression I wanted to show by any means. And I fully agree about that comment being stupid which is why I quickly deleted it out of the post. I don't want to be condescending about it at all, I am not in Eels position and don't want to act like I know better about his own problems, because I obviously don't.
I thought the whole point of mandatory coverage was to increase the insurance pool, thus lowering costs?
Eel, I was serious about the offer. Let me know if there's something you want on Steam. I'll be glad to help a friend in need.
i am not trying to whine or ask for special treatment at all, i'd just like to have the same access to various benefits or programs that someone making the same as i do working for someone else hassorry to hear that :(
It's kinda risky to go around with out insurance, what happens if you get cancer?
...
Ask your friends at GAF to start folding on their PS3s?
That is because Cheebs is a pampered white boy in the suburbs. He'll never really know what hard times are like except for when his mom gets him the wrong kind of coffee when he sits in the backseat of his mom's car (or likely an SUV).
That is because Cheebs is a pampered white boy in the suburbs. He'll never really know what hard times are like except for when his mom gets him the wrong kind of coffee when he sits in the backseat of his mom's car (or likely an SUV).
How is that any different from most of the people who post in this forum? I figure at least 75% of the folks who post here are pampered whiteys.
That is because Cheebs is a pampered white boy in the suburbs. He'll never really know what hard times are like except for when his mom gets him the wrong kind of coffee when he sits in the backseat of his mom's car (or likely an SUV).I am paying for my own college loans. Not my parents. And I drive my own car, thanks. I am not saying I don't come from a good upper middle class family and I somehow live the hard life but don't make assumptions. I rarely ever talk about my real life here.
That is because Cheebs is a pampered white boy in the suburbs. He'll never really know what hard times are like except for when his mom gets him the wrong kind of coffee when he sits in the backseat of his mom's car (or likely an SUV).
How is that any different from most of the people who post in this forum? I figure at least 75% of the folks who post here are pampered whiteys.
Unsurprisingly, these are the same people that patted him on the head and said, "I'm sorry but you're wrong."
the self-employed are treated like shit under current tax laws, period. my youngest brother is in the same place eel is; he's a self-employed web dev who tries to do the right thing and actually file his taxes instead of working some shady under-the-table agreement, and he gets dicked for it. it's pretty much bullshit.
^^hahaha^^
in conclusion, my business advice is not to start one
Shake and Cheebs are both 19 or something, right?No
Who was annihilated, exactly? Or do you just like saying that randomly now since your dealings with GS?
My dad makes 250k a year
My dad makes 250k a year
My dad makes 250k a year
My dad makes 250k a year
It's another thing to tell the losers that they should also like it, especially in a way that's dismissive of their grievances, especially in a way that treats them like simpletons ("what if you got cancer?"), especially by citing benefits to other people who already have it easier than them.
Who was annihilated, exactly? Or do you just like saying that randomly now since your dealings with GS?
Like I said I'm not trying to step on anyone's toes, I just don't think going "well Cheebs is in college so lololol" is a real excuse to ignore the point he was making. The common good should be more important than anything, even one's own wellbeing. Or maybe that's too socialist, idk. ::)
Who was dismissing their grievances? You guys jumped on Cheebs for making a valid point and saying he is being insensitive when he was not. He even said he understands where Eel is coming from and feels bad for him, and yet you guys jumped on him for "being a dick" anyway. No one is saying Eel doesn't have a right to feel the way he does, but rather that he should just keep in mind what good the money he's giving away is doing for others. Others who, contrary to popular belief, often aren't living an easier life than someone who owns their own business. Saying people who don't have jobs have an easier life than you do is what's dismissive. It's akin to being against wellfare because "lolol all those wellfare queens just spend it on drugs and liquor". ::)
Who was dismissing their grievances? You guys jumped on Cheebs for making a valid point and saying he is being insensitive when he was not.
It sucks he has to pay for something he can barely afford, but that is not enough of a reason to not be happy with the overall benefits of the mandate and the law as a whole. It helps too many people. It is worth being happy about and proud that it got passed.
I mean I had benefits from the govt job I was working full time last year. I left it and now getting my masters full time. Thanks to this law I am able to go back on my parents plan till I am finished in a year and get a job again. I have no reason to hate this law.
Yeah, I still fail to see what's so insensitive about those posts.
Oh, I figured as much. I was pointing out that part in reference to Shake's assertion that you were not dismissing his grievances.Yeah it sucks for eel but tell me why that should at all impact my support of it? I am not eel. Yes his situation sucks and he has every right to be angry about the bill.
"Well, that sucks for Eel, but health care reform! Let the good times roll!"
"... I'm still poor, though!"
"Whatever!" :violin
I could spin the same argument and say you are being insensitive for not thinking of the poor people who now can get on the new health care govt. program that will be created when you said you didn't like the bill. You want them to rot in the street and die?
Real talk: I'm sorry, Shake, but Cheebs really did come off sounding like a bit of a dick. Like he just HAD to defend Obama (like he always does), instead of just keeping his mouth shut and being respectfully silent regarding Eel's situation.
And then you came in the next page and basically repeated the same thing, with the added cup noodles joke.
I don't think anyone said Cheebs was malicious (but nice deflection), but that he was insensitive.It's insensitive to say all debate had to magically end just because eel came in and shared his story of his situation. All debate magically has to stop at EB when some one comes into a thread and has a different side of the story? How does that make ANY sense?
... which he was.
See, I would get that if this was eel's thread talking about his shitty situation (which it very much is). But this wasn't and we were discussing politics before he shared his view. Just because he didn't like it all conservation had to stop and I was no longer allowed to praise the bill? You don't realize how crazy that sounds?
The thread is still on-topic, Shake. I'm seeing a lot of angry white people posting on it. :lol
Let me put it this way to Willco and Ichi:
Shake makes a thread about grandpas.
Many are talking about how much they love their grandpas.
Eel posts and says he doesn't like his grandpa that he was mean to him.
What you are saying is now because of this all the previous conversation can no longer be discussed, I am hear by banned from saying I love my grandpa anymore in that thread any more.
It makes no sense.
You and Ichi said its insensitive to say how happy I am with health care when eel was telling his story.Let me put it this way to Willco and Ichi:
Shake makes a thread about grandpas.
Many are talking about how much they love their grandpas.
Eel posts and says he doesn't like his grandpa that he was mean to him.
What you are saying is now because of this all the previous conversation can no longer be discussed, I am hear by banned from saying I love my grandpa anymore in that thread any more.
It makes no sense.
NOBODY IS SAYING THIS. ARE YOU THIS STUPID IN REAL LIFE? IF SO, HOW ARE YOU IN COLLEGE?
Let me put it this way to Willco and Ichi:
Shake makes a thread about grandpas.
Many are talking about how much they love their grandpas.
Eel posts and says he doesn't like his grandpa that he was mean to him (and has a good reason to feel that way).
What you are saying is now because of this all the previous conversation can no longer be discussed, I am hear by banned from saying I love my grandpa anymore in that thread.
It makes no sense.
Except the health care bill isn't his. It's just as much mine. And Willco's and Shakes. Doesn't matter if they work or are in college or their age.Let me put it this way to Willco and Ichi:"My grampa beat me and sodomized me."
Shake makes a thread about grandpas.
Many are talking about how much they love their grandpas.
Eel posts and says he doesn't like his grandpa that he was mean to him (and has a good reason to feel that way).
What you are saying is now because of this all the previous conversation can no longer be discussed, I am hear by banned from saying I love my grandpa anymore in that thread.
It makes no sense.
"That sucks for you, but your grampa took me out for ice cream once and he even bought me a scooter. Your grampa rocks!"
...more accurate.
It's sodomizing his wallet.And its making a lot of Americans save money thanks to a new govt. program of health care for individuals who cant afford to purchase it.
The American government beat Eel and sodomized him, and then took Cheebs out for ice cream?
Eel should tear up his citizenship :usacry
and they coulda ended recission without the crappy private health care requirement and the bizarre tax credit structure, but obama pussied out on the public option, and single-payer was never even on the table because of everyone squawking SOCIALISM
Eel, I understand your that you are part of a percentage of working Americans negatively impacted by the bill, and that really does suck. I hope this puts us on a path to eventually getting affordable health care reform for those who are self-employed. I think it will - eventually.
But right now, it gives millions of Americans access to insurance that they otherwise could not afford, and that is why I am in favor of this bill. Nobody's struggles are greater than anyone else's, but I think we can help more Americans across the board with the reform going into place right now than without.
My financial situation is vastly different than yours, but I can say that I now have direct access to health care due to certain consumer protections that take effect immediately. I know this means little to you, but I felt it was worth noting that there is a positive side to this bill - at least on a personal level. It's not all bad.
I do sympathize with your struggles, but I sincerely believe this will lead us to getting the help you need. It sucks that good people might be squeezed in the meanwhile.
BUT THAT YOU REITERATED YOUR OPINION WITHOUT ANY REGARDS TO THE POSTER DISCUSSING HIS REAL-LIFE STRUGGLES.I repeated ENDLESSLY in this thread that his situation sucks and he has every right to be pissed off. I guess I should repeat it 20 more times? Even Eel said he didn't take what I said personally!
Forget it Willco, it's the internet, where people are still allowed to express their opinions freely, especially in a civilized manor.
I think in Willco and Mandark's mind you're still a first-year college student or something.
This doesn't relate to just this thread, more in general I am still clueless on why Willco thinks he somehow has more life experience than me and thus I should ceed to his wisdom on things.
I am being a twat to you, not eel. I continuously tried to say I understood his point and he even said he didn't take anything I said personally. Yet even after he said that you rushed into defend his honor for what seems like just an excuse to start shit.This doesn't relate to just this thread, more in general I am still clueless on why Willco thinks he somehow has more life experience than me and thus I should ceed to his wisdom on things.
This has absolutely nothing to do with that, but if it makes you sleep better at night - feel free to think that.
It really just has to do with the fact that you were an insensitive twat. At first I just thought you poorly worded your reply, because I had more respect for your intelligence and empathy level prior to the last page. Now I realize you're clueless. It's a shame.
Shake is being Shake. I can't fault him for that.
Everybody fucking relax.This argument could have ended page one when eel came in and said he didn't take anything I said personally. But Willco and the anti-"michigan distinguished mentally-challenged fellow" crew had to rush in to defend his honor. Can't pass up a chance to argue with cheebs or shake!
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/mastershake05/martyr.jpg):lol :bow
Someone change my tag to "Batting cleanup for the Michigan distinguished mentally-challenged fellows" :rock
At least Shake has a sense of humor!As long as you stop pretending you have some sort of more life experience and always feel the need to pat me on my head like an inferior I have no beef with you at all, which has something that has been going on since I first joined and hoped and expected would have been long since passed when I returned last month but it didn't seem to, whoever I was in 2006 is the person that got stuck in a lot of peoples minds unfairly. If you think I am saying distinguished mentally-challenged shit treat me as an equal when you call my views distinguished mentally-challenged. :-*
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/mastershake05/martyr.jpg)
Someone change my tag to "Batting cleanup for the Michigan distinguished mentally-challenged fellows" :rock
http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1701/martyrx.jpg (http://img22.imageshack.us/img22/1701/martyrx.jpg)
(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/mastershake05/dreams.jpg)this is becoming like wheres waldo
Last one, I promise :spin
I don't even remember that :lol:roflspoiler (click to show/hide)(http://i3.photobucket.com/albums/y97/mastershake05/vietnam.jpg)
I can't help myself. feelin' too sexxy.[close]
Post the picture of him looking all fucked up and suckin' on some toes.
Yeah, his taxes sound ridiculously high for his income. Maybe have someone help you with writing more things off for the business?
You guys don't know me. I've had a hard life. Once I was so sick I had to spend time in a hospital that my parents could afford.
I know I'm late on this, but do you do the estimated payment plan Eel? I learned that when I paid my huge tax sum one year. Someone suggested it, now I'm throwing payments at the IRS to keep them at bay, giving more when JESUS decides to grace me with extra funds. I was told this by someone who works for themself - "Never pay all at once. Everyone who is in this industry does payments." You can pay as low as $50/mo even
i used to be just like shake and cheebs
I know I'm late on this, but do you do the estimated payment plan Eel? I learned that when I paid my huge tax sum one year. Someone suggested it, now I'm throwing payments at the IRS to keep them at bay, giving more when JESUS decides to grace me with extra funds. I was told this by someone who works for themself - "Never pay all at once. Everyone who is in this industry does payments." You can pay as low as $50/mo even
I guess I could do a little bit of that, depending. The main reason that I hesitate to do so and just pay in a lump is that what I earn fluctuates wildly throughout certain parts of the year. I make a good 70% of my yearly income from the months of May-August. The worst months are Dec-Feb, so I have to plan ahead with any savings from the Summer to float me through those months. Last year was especially weird, and it stayed pretty dead around here until July, when I got slammed for two months. I had to hire a friend for a couple of weeks to catch up, which ended up working out well for him since he was out of work at the time, and it helped me out, but I would have rather had the money considering the year as a whole sucked. After August it flattened out again, even worse than usual. Right now I never really know what's coming from month to month.
Internet martyr. :bowfor the record, I called it first
Willco: The bill is better than a status quo, and you'd be hard pressed to find many people who would disagree with the fact that democrats threw nearly every cost bending idea into the bill, except the public option of course. The CBO numbers speak for themselves. I notice you make the same criticism of the bill in every discussion of it, but it's simply not true.
"It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate of [Medicare] spending could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or through reductions in access to care or the quality of care," the agency says in its report.
I think in Willco and Mandark's mind you're still a first-year college student or something.
It seems that way.
Some here REFUSE to accept I am not some 16 year old kid living in my parents basement. You may disagree with me, you may think my views are fucking stupid but stop acting like I am a kid who hasn't lived life, you have very little idea of any details of my life. Disagree and mock my views but stop actin like you've lived life and thus are more informed to have views.
I mean it's not like Willco is some wise old career man, he is in his mid-20's living pay check to pay check. Most people over 40 would see him just as much as a innocent "kid" as shake.
I know I'm late on this, but do you do the estimated payment plan Eel? I learned that when I paid my huge tax sum one year. Someone suggested it, now I'm throwing payments at the IRS to keep them at bay, giving more when JESUS decides to grace me with extra funds. I was told this by someone who works for themself - "Never pay all at once. Everyone who is in this industry does payments." You can pay as low as $50/mo even
I guess I could do a little bit of that, depending. The main reason that I hesitate to do so and just pay in a lump is that what I earn fluctuates wildly throughout certain parts of the year. I make a good 70% of my yearly income from the months of May-August. The worst months are Dec-Feb, so I have to plan ahead with any savings from the Summer to float me through those months. Last year was especially weird, and it stayed pretty dead around here until July, when I got slammed for two months. I had to hire a friend for a couple of weeks to catch up, which ended up working out well for him since he was out of work at the time, and it helped me out, but I would have rather had the money considering the year as a whole sucked. After August it flattened out again, even worse than usual. Right now I never really know what's coming from month to month.
Heh dude, that's why you pay taxes when you have the cash. Ever hear of EFTPS?
http://www.irs.gov/efile/article/0,,id=98005,00.html
This shit is gold distinguished black fellow, just pay whenever you can! Quarterly, Monthly, Weekly, whenever. If you've got more cash in hand at a given moment you should just set aside some of that money to pay to the gov't. This way you don't ever have to pay the gov't more than you have to.
One
Big
Awful
Mistake
America
:rofl :rofl :rofl
Willco: The bill is better than a status quo, and you'd be hard pressed to find many people who would disagree with the fact that democrats threw nearly every cost bending idea into the bill, except the public option of course. The CBO numbers speak for themselves. I notice you make the same criticism of the bill in every discussion of it, but it's simply not true.
The CBO numbers have nothing to do with health care costs; the CBO numbers reiterate it will cut government spending, much of it in the forms of cuts to programs already in existence. Even then, the CBO itself is unsure if all the Medicare savings will come to fruition:Quote from: CBO"It is unclear whether such a reduction in the growth rate of [Medicare] spending could be achieved, and if so, whether it would be accomplished through greater efficiencies in the delivery of health care or through reductions in access to care or the quality of care," the agency says in its report.
Way to refute my points by saying, "Well, hey, that's just not true!"
Saying that the Democrats threw in every cost bending idea - which is not true - other than the ones that would, y'know, actually cut costs, shows how little you actually care about the real debate.
The exchange is the only thing that could theoretically cut costs, and a lot of that is in theory. The risk pools could be too small, and without a viable public option, the likelihood is that insurers that operate on profit won't have any incentive to offer low-priced plans on the exchange. The exchange was originally created to force insurers to compete with a federal plan, and that's why it would have worked. That's not the case anymore.
I already linked to the recent report that the industry is already fudging numbers in order to meet federal guidelines, but pad their profit margins. Not to mention that the health care industry saw stock prices surge as the bill passed, showing more confidence by investors that they will continue to make a killing off of us dying.
Like I said, it has a great deal of positive consumer protections loaded within it, but the bill doesn't really address costs. It's a watered down piece of legislation that barely passes as reform, and I believe will put us on a path that will inevitably lead to a single-payer system when everyone realizes, "Hey, wait a minute, this isn't really working."
The bill's basic theory is to try pretty much everything in the hopes that some of it works out. The net effect is to make reform a continuous, rather than occasional, process, with different cost cops patrolling different beats. Insurers will have to work to stay a step ahead of the excise tax because employers won't want to buy plans that trigger it. The industries that provide medical care and technologies will have to hold their costs down because they don't want to become a target for the Medicare Commission. Hospitals will need to make sure they don't spend more than their competitors because they'll lose money under bundling. And if we want to try other things -- a public option, say, or incentives for insurers to abandon fee-for-service -- the exchanges give us an actual structure where we can make changes and test reforms.
Lamar Alexander and Barack Obama just had a contentious exchange on this point, so it's worth settling the issue: Yes, the CBO found health-care reform would reduce premiums. The issue gets confused because it also found that access to subsidies would encourage people to buy more comprehensive insurance, which would mean that the value of their insurance would be higher after reform than before it. But that's not the same as insurance becoming more expensive: The fact that I could buy a nicer car after getting a better job suggests that cars are becoming pricier. The bottom line is that if you're comparing two plans that are exactly the same, costs go down after reform.http://voices.washingtonpost.com/ezra-klein/2010/02/did_the_congressional_budget_o_1.html
You can find a full rundown of the report here.
obama pussied out on the public option, and single-payer was never even on the table because of everyone squawking SOCIALISM
And he wouldn't have gotten it passed congress. They needed Lieberman. They were able to use reconciliation for the fixes but reconciliation could not be used for the entire package. You can't use reconciliation for any bill you want. There are a lot of restrictions on what type of bills it is allowed to be used for. When you have 60 (now 59) seats and you need at least 60 to get anything meaningful done then you gotta keep Lieberman on board, sucks it does but without him Dems wouldn't have gotten any health care bill passed.obama pussied out on the public option, and single-payer was never even on the table because of everyone squawking SOCIALISM
Seriously. They need to just revamp Medicare and make it for everyone.
Obama should've just kicked Lieberman right in the fucking nut-sack.
FDR would spit in your face.FDR had far larger congressional majorities.
And he wouldn't have gotten it passed congress. They needed Lieberman. They were able to use reconciliation for the fixes but reconciliation could not be used for the entire package. You can't use reconciliation for any bill you want. There are a lot of restrictions on what type of bills it is allowed to be used for. When you have 60 (now 59) seats and you need at least 60 to get anything meaningful done then you gotta keep Lieberman on board, sucks it does but without him Dems wouldn't have gotten any health care bill passed.obama pussied out on the public option, and single-payer was never even on the table because of everyone squawking SOCIALISM
Seriously. They need to just revamp Medicare and make it for everyone.
Obama should've just kicked Lieberman right in the fucking nut-sack.
Saying "he pussied out" or "should have kicked lieberman right in the fucking balls" ignores how hard and messy getting bills passed through congress is. The law that is passed is the only law that could have been passed in this congress. Anything more liberal and congress would have crumbled and we would have got nothing. And the bill does far too much good for far too many people despite not going as far as any of us would have liked to pick the status quo over it.
Durbin and others said they had 50 votes, and a junior senator passed around a public option support letter that got nearly 40 signatures. Democrats made a calculated moved to kill it, and they were given cover by Obama's initial silence then his remarks at rallies that claimed the public option wasn't a good idea. I think it's pretty clear that the WH didn't want a public option, nor did many top senators who had once championed it.Yep, this bill is far from the end but it was a very important first step. Social Security was improved after passage, same will be the same with this.
The bill allows states to create their own public options though, and the infrastructure is in place to create a national one later. I can see it happening in a decade
One
Big
Awful
Mistake
America
:rofl :rofl :rofl