THE BORE
General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Himu on July 06, 2010, 12:41:30 AM
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I love Fallout 3.
I tried out Morrowind for xbuck like 5 years ago and it was trash. Mostly because of the combat system, which was awful. Having dice rolls with an action rpg combat system is fucking stupid and whoever came up with that idea should be fired.
But everyone and their mother loves MW.
Tried Oblivion at Mupepe's house when it first came out and it really impressed me because the combat system was decent and not based wholly around dice rolls.
But everyone and their mother says MW > Oblivion.
But I now live in an age where my computer kicks ass and I can cheat to make insufferable western rpg design actually decent and fun (see: cheating in vampire bloodlines to get max stats so I can pick any lock and persuade any fucker to do my bidding without going through the shitty, janky combat, and if I do get into a battle, I'm powerful enough to kill anything with just a few hits).
So what should I go for? I hear MW with mods is heavenly, but I also hear that Oblivion with mods fixes most of that game's issues or something.
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Why would anybody say MW is better than Oblivion? Just get oblivion. From what I heard about MW, it has more content but it's just not as focused. Both games are all about the exploration though. Like FO3, they have cocsuckular combat but impressive vistas and dungeons and whatnot (Oblivion had shit for story though and I assume MW is the same).
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I love Morrowind, it feels much bigger than Oblivion and richer too. With that said, the combat in Oblivion is infinitely better than Morrowind. And yeah, to get the best out of Morrowind you need to install a fuckload of mods, to the point where I never want to install that shit ever again.
I would definitely try to play both at some point and if you intend to do that, I would play Morrowind first (since the graphical and battle feel disparity between the two is pretty huge).
The last time I played through Oblivion was on the PS3 and I definitely found that I dug the experience better on consoles (to me it was reminiscent of an open ended King's Field when playing with a controller).
Also the leveling system in this game is unlike any other (I think). You level up based ability/specialty usage. If you're the type thats OCD about maximizing each levels potential skill points, prepare for a huge grind :'(
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Just get Morrowind since you're a "true" gamer that prefers outdated crap graphics. :-X
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Dwarven crafts! Fine dwarven crafts direct from Orzammar!
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Only really good part of Oblivion is the Dark Brotherhood quest line.
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I read your post again I would have to recommend Oblivion for what you are asking for, IMHO Morrowind is the far superior game.
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Oblivion + Lots of mods
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Oblivion probably. I like both, MW more as that came first and was pretty breathtaking at the time and I still find the world compelling, got real OCD with Oblivion, tracked my stat progress with a spreadsheet to make sure I leveled the right amount of agility/strength etc per level and nothing else so I didn't waste points on level up, it's fun but also frustrating leveling 'properly' in this game, if you want to do it right you'll be spending quite some time jumping and swimming.
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MW w/o mods
Oblivion w/ mods
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I read your post again I would have to recommend Oblivion for what you are asking for, IMHO Morrowind is the far superior game.
I'm not asking for combat. I just want the combat to be DECENT, but I want an RPG and your post suggested that MW is a great rpg.
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I read your post again I would have to recommend Oblivion for what you are asking for, IMHO Morrowind is the far superior game.
I'm not asking for combat. I just want the combat to be DECENT, but I want an RPG and your post suggested that MW is a great rpg.
What do you consider decent? There is a mod for Morrowind that makes it so your hits land everytime. To go into some details as to why I think Morrowind is a much better game first off I don't like games to hold my hand the more it kicks my ass the more I like it. I use mods for Morrwind that amp up the difficulty by adding more monsters, bandits with magic weapons, it turns into almost a survival horror experience. 1 or 2 bandits you might make it out alive and if you die the bandits might or not be there all of this is randomly generated so is the loot. Oblivion on the other hand needs hundreds of mods and it still does not even come close yeah Oblivion looks better, but you can make morrowind look pretty damn impressive through mods. Morrowind has spells that when cast permanently damage stats unless you have the appropriate restore attribute potions make sure you stock up! Another cool thing is the levitate spell and potions that you need to get to some areas in dungeons etc. I can go on and on!
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Your hits land EVERY TIME? Score.
Game kicks your ass?
Doesn't hold yer hand?
Morrowind it is.
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Two Worlds :teehee
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Depends on what you value in these games. I played vanilla Morrowind again after Oblivion and still enjoyed it a lot more for the exploration and such. The areas in Cyrodiil were boring for me. Towns were boxed off and it felt like a giant field with some interesting places that sprout out. I don't know if mods fixed it and a while ago I was meaning to play it with mods to see if my opinion of it would go up. I may sometimes seem like I hated it, but I did enjoy it for the most part.
Vvardenfell in Morrowind was a pretty great world. You can walk in any direction and find many interesting locations on your way. When you reach major areas, they too don't just feel like the same place with a difference design. You a prison that floats in the sky and things like that. First time I played the game and got a scroll that makes you jump incredibly high into the air, so I stood in Balmora, ran and jumped. Landed near a house with a bunch cultist. And that's another thing, Oblivion didn't really have cool magic spells like that. It was all really tame and limited what you could do.
Just about the combat, while Oblivion is better, it isn't anything near good. I'm not playing these games for the combat and would rather go with the game that has more strengths than weaknesses. The reason Fallout 3 was such a surprise was because VATS let me mostly ignore combat and focus on the exploration and going on quests, which were great this time.
btw, if you want to use mods in morrowind, there are a bunch linked recently in the what are you playing thread.
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Two Worlds :teehee
I know your probably kidding but IMHO Two Worlds for the PC is better than Oblivion despite it's shitty voice acting and story, dudebro style modeling (big body tiny head on male characters) that just looks so wrong. Two Worlds on the 360 OTOH Yikes!
Vanilla Morrowind is still better than heavily modded Oblivion, you actually progress in that eventually you turn into a badass and run through enemies!
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Depends on what you value in these games. I played vanilla Morrowind again after Oblivion and still enjoyed it a lot more for the exploration and such. The areas in Cyrodiil were boring for me. Towns were boxed off and it felt like a giant field with some interesting places that sprout out. I don't know if mods fixed it and a while ago I was meaning to play it with mods to see if my opinion of it would go up.
There's a mod that adds in a lot of unique locations, another that alters all of the cities to be more unique and interesting, and another that removes the outer doors from the city so that you can walk right into them without a load screen.
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What's Morrowind like? People shit on Fallout 3's story but what I liked about it were the mini-arcs. Like how each location had its own story. The sheriff who has the shoot out with that one guy in the bar. The people who have escaped to live on a giant ship. The people who are harassed by locale vampires. The town that's overtaken by a bunch of ants that shoot fire.
I loved that shit in Fallout 3. The sense of adventure and scope was unparalleled.
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both morrowind and oblivion are the same way
actually, the reason I'm so excited about Fallout New Vegas is because they don't seem to be doing a main quest. It is more about factions and interactions with people in the wasteland instead of finding a big bad meanie or saving the world.
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is there an instant travel mod for morrowind to make it more like the travel system in oblivion
i mean, i like wandering as much as anyone, but goddamn
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i never found travel to be too problematic with the quick travel bugs
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Never played Morrowind, but I loved Oblivion.
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(http://img291.imageshack.us/img291/6026/1278415192997.jpg)
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:rofl
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is there an instant travel mod for morrowind to make it more like the travel system in oblivion
i mean, i like wandering as much as anyone, but goddamn
I actually played Morrowind recently and yeah the Silt Strider system of jumping to waypoints does suck tremendous balls. Definitely should be (from now on) Discover locale > Can fast travel to it.
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I found a mod for Morrowind that gets rid of all the fog and extends the view distance by a massive amount. It's weird because all of place area actually really close together and it's something that's hard to notice playing the vanilla version.
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Oblivion is awful. As a jrpg veteran you will hate the shallow combat. It's about as deep as kung-fu on NES.
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Oblivion rules
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Oblivion is garbage
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^ proof that it rules
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^ proof that it's garbage
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^ proof, rules, infinity
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Oblivion is pretty good, I think I put about 150 hours into it. I spent most of my time just wandering the landscape and finding things to fight though.
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Oblivion is awful. As a jrpg veteran you will hate the shallow combat. It's about as deep as kung-fu on NES.
I think liberties had to be taken since the combat system is more about actually hitting a physical model (and it not being determined solely on whether you hit or not). There's action elements of twitch gameplay. I actually prefer this way in a First Person RPG where constantly slashing at something and missing is just annoying as hell. Basically :bow King's Field :bow2
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Basically :bow King's Field :bow2
Nailed it. Just play KF, Himuro.
Eternal Ring as well
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oblivion is one of the best games i have played this generation
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How much better is Oblivion with mods? And which mods in particular?
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How much better is Oblivion with mods? And which mods in particular?
Unnoficial Oblivion/Shivering Isles Patch
Natural Environments
Natural Faces
Bananasplit Better Cities
Oscuro's Oblivion Overhaul 133
DarNified UI
Unique Landscapes
Illumination Within
Qarl's Texture Pack III [if you've got a really good computer]
Kvatch Rebuilt
Open Cities [if you've got a really good computer]
Marts Monster Mod
Francesco's Leveled Creatures-Items
http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/search.php (http://www.tesnexus.com/downloads/search.php)
There are dozens of smaller ones out there too that you can pick up to tweak the game to your liking, but I'd say that these are the major ones out there.
Also, be sure to pick up these programs as well:
Oblivion Mod Manager
Oblivion Script Extender
TES4LODGen
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Goddamn. Thanks
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rens beauty pack so you can play as an animu elf
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Na I already experienced a lifetime's worth of that faggotry (albeit vicariously) in WoW
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rens beauty pack so you can play as an animu elf
Exnem's better female bodies, dude.
Underwear version if you're a sidehugging prude.
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Oblivion is awful. As a jrpg veteran you will hate the shallow combat. It's about as deep as kung-fu on NES.
well that's true for about every western rpg except baldur's gate, dragon age, and diablo click fests. They're all shallow shit stains when it comes to combat and real gameplay. This is why cheating makes every wrpg better, because the games aren't good enough to stand on their own.
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Hell no, combat is what JRPGS suck at, in comparison to WRPGS. Every JRPG is just some combination of grinding and rock, paper, scissors. There are hardly any advanced tactics involved in JRPGS. It's why JRPGS are so much more popular with mainstream gaming dullards.
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jrpgs at least try and the better jrpgs annihilate the bulk of western rpg combat. Even Demon's Souls, a Japanese made rpg with western rpg influences knocks the shit out of any wrpg made in terms of depth.
What are the ever involving tactics in a wrpg? Whack the enemy until he's dead? Save, die, reload, get a glitch, reload, try again?
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Bringing up Demon's Souls shows how weak your argument is. DS is basically an action game with some RPG elements a la Zelda and Darksiders.
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Bringing up Demon's Souls shows how weak your argument is. DS is basically an action game with some RPG elements a la Zelda and Darksiders.
Zelda? RPG elements? Zelda doesn't feature customizable characters and pages full of stats.
Demon's Souls plays like a roguelike with an action system. Still an rpg.
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well that's true for about every western rpg except baldur's gate, dragon age, and diablo click fests. They're all shallow shit stains when it comes to combat and real gameplay. This is why cheating makes every wrpg better, because the games aren't good enough to stand on their own.
i fail to see how some jap rpg with random and or turn based combat is more "real" than the open world slash and spell fighting of oblivion ::)
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and i know himuro eats up stuff like this, he was never even interested in playing either bethesda games, he just likes to stir up shit on the gaming side, dude, that is how you troll at neogaf, come into chat sometime and ill teach you how to troll like a big boy
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what in the fuck, fallout 3 was my favorite rpg of 2008 next to the almighty persona 4. I even made the OMG NEW FALLOUT thread. you're a dumb dumb.
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youve personally admitted to me that you love stirring up shit about videogames on forums, you turned this thread into an OMG WACKYNESE JAYRPEEGEES ARE LIKE SOOO MUCH BETTER ^_^
what is a distinguished white fellow suppossed to think?
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i'm being honest
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i'm being honest
Bull.
Shit.
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Want screen caps of maxed out Vampire: Bloodlines characters at the beginning of the game? :lol
It's no secret I hate wrpg flaws
I will do anything -- even cheat! -- to make wrpgs a better experience.
Remember when I HACKED Mass Effect 2 to give me MAX resources so I didn't have to deal with mining since I had the pc version?
And you're calling bulshit on this? :lol
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Throwing this train back on track:
Considering how cheap both games are why not pick up both and try each other out? Morrowind has it's fans because it's widely considered a more hardcore experience and a larger world to toy around in. Oblivion is quite fun because of it's improved melee combat and easier to follow quest lines. Each has their pluses and minuses and it's interesting to see just how varied each game is with regards to how they approach the Bethesda RPG Sim formula.
Also if you can play them on the PC you absolutely must. The modding community has gone to great lengths to add hundreds of hours of free quality extra content to each game. Additionally there are a slew of fixes that make each game more playable and if you have a capable graphics card, look far better.
I can get Morrowind at half priced books for like 5 dollah
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Then why do you bother?
Wouldn't it be easier to just stick to JRPGs to save yourself the trouble of playing through yet another game you don't like and you save us the trouble of reading your JRPG superiority comments.
I'm not claiming jrpg superiority, I'm claiming jrpg superiority in terms of combat and legitimate difficulty.
jrpgs do certain things well, wrpgs do certain things well.
You know what wrpgs do well? Getting the player immersed in a world full of interesting mini-arcs and questlines and letting you choose your own path. Guess how I like to play wrpgs: stealth characters, characters who talk their way out of fighting. Why? I can't stand shit combat. If cheating lets me get max stats to let me persuade every fucker alive in that game, rather than fighting him, then I do so. And I enjoy the game 9999 times more.
wrpgs are fantastic at exploration, especially what Bethesda did in Fallout 3. So that's the area I like to concentrate in.
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Dude when I got Morrowind for xbuck, I fought a crab on the beach at the opening area.
I kept attacking it. Miss miss miss miss miss miss miss.
I read in this thread that I hack the game so my attacks always hit. So I'm pretty positive I will enjoy it especially if it's similar to Fallout 3 like linkzg said.
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Himuro just play King Field. Even JAPs can do Western games right
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looks like janky shit
will stick with demon's souls thnx
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looks like janky shit
> morrowind
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looks like janky shit
> oblivion
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exactly. king's field looks like a modern western rpg -- janky gameplay mechanics and all -- but without the awesome sense of adventure and exploration. and who the fuck wants to play that? does king's field have adventure and loot and mini-arcs with stressed out townspeople? because demon's souls sure as hell isn't like that.
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It has all of that, yes
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what is a good King's Field game to play? I wanted to play one after Demon's Souls
I do remember Eternal Ring sitting next to Orphen and Ring of Red at a Funcoland a long time ago. Maybe they still have it.
Dude when I got Morrowind for xbuck, I fought a crab on the beach at the opening area.
I kept attacking it. Miss miss miss miss miss miss miss.
I read in this thread that I hack the game so my attacks always hit. So I'm pretty positive I will enjoy it especially if it's similar to Fallout 3 like linkzg said.
If it sounded like I was making a comparison, it was is that the exploration and quests in Fallout 3 are great like they were in Morrowind while I found all that lacking in Oblivion.
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I'd pick The Ancient City on PS2. But any is a good choice.
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Why are you pimping King's Field so hard? You said before that From Software isn't an AAA dev.
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Weird, I don't recall thinking Bethesda was one either
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more like a C-- developer :drake
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Morrowind plus mods is fantastic. The world is rich and detailed and has great visual design. Exploration is rewarding (except for all those damned cliff racers). It has a great sense of place and atmosphere, no matter what part of the island you're on.
Oblivion feels like you're walking around in a high-fantasy theme park resort, but it is a more streamlined and focused experience for when you just want to sit and watch those numbers go up.
King's Field is good stuff, but it's closer to Ultima Underworld than to the open-world RPGs. And that ain't a bad thing. The Ancient City is definitely the easiest one to get into these days (as well as the best one). You might try Shadow Tower Abyss if you don't mind using a FAQ to play along. The original Shadow Tower is honestly pretty cool, too.
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what is a good King's Field game to play? I wanted to play one after Demon's Souls
I do remember Eternal Ring sitting next to Orphen and Ring of Red at a Funcoland a long time ago. Maybe they still have it.
King's Field 1 and 2 (US) are good. They are dated though and fairly slow (even compared to Morrowind/Oblivion). Lots of atmosphere in those games though. King's Field: Ancient City has both the atmosphere and a non-dated look. I'd personally start from the beginning.
Eternal Ring is also fantastic and after playing the King's Field games one can appreciate the different take on the genre in that game.
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I've heard a lot of complaints with Oblivion about how the enemies scale with you as you level, is it really that bad? I believe the enemies scaled like that in KOTOR and that game was piss easy so it never bothered me much.
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I've heard a lot of complaints with Oblivion about how the enemies scale with you as you level, is it really that bad? I believe the enemies scaled like that in KOTOR and that game was piss easy so it never bothered me much.
It sucks due to not being able to find the coolest gear until you've leveled pretty high. The whole game world (shops, dungeon treasures, enemy loot) scales with the player level. So you'll never see that set of Glass Gear anywhere until you've reached a level where some lowly bandit is wearing some. With that said, its exciting when you reach the point where you start seeing the better gear.
Another thing to watch out for is over leveling with non-fighting abilities and then having to somehow deal with overpowered and better geared enemies.
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I've heard a lot of complaints with Oblivion about how the enemies scale with you as you level, is it really that bad? I believe the enemies scaled like that in KOTOR and that game was piss easy so it never bothered me much.
It could be pretty bad but there are strategies to work around the scaling. I don't remember how exactly but basically you try to increase attributes as much as possible before gaining each level.
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With scaling, you don't have to worry about running across super-hard enemies when you're wandering around. But, it also kind of feels like you're not really being rewards for wandering around either and taking risks, because you just get standard stuff until you hit the higher levels.
Francescos Leveled Creatures mod fixes the issues, however.
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With scaling, you don't have to worry about running across super-hard enemies when you're wandering around. But, it also kind of feels like you're not really being rewards for wandering around either and taking risks, because you just get standard stuff until you hit the higher levels.
Francescos Leveled Creatures mod fixes the issues, however.
The difference is with how in other games, you get unique abilities or equipment that gives you an edge when fighting a bunch of minions. With Oblivion, it was like fighting three clones that hit you back 60% as hard or something. It usually wasn't that big of a problem though but it did require that you spend a couple minutes healing like after every big battle.
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It sucks, I can't bring myself to play mods b/c I feel compelled to experience the designer's original vision, warts and all... I own Oblivion for the 360, but didn't play nearly far enough when the whole level scaling would be a problem... honestly though the level scaling turns me off :(
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It sucks, I can't bring myself to play mods b/c I feel compelled to experience the designer's original vision, warts and all.
Bethesda released the Oblivion toolset with the express purpose of allowing you to customize your experience.
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So you have to have Oblivion to apply Morrowblivion? Ugh.
OMG I just noticed that Himuro fucking CHEATS in RPGs.
How fucking LAME-ASS gamer you have to be to do that :rofl :lol :lol
In RPGs? SINGLE-PLAYER games?!?
Every year you lose more and more of your gaming cred, Himumu. Sure enough one day you will tell us you play Farmville on Facebook.
Makes up for shitty combat. Makes the game more fun. Honestly I've only done it with two games: Vampire Bloodlines, which is a half finished product anyways, and Mass Effect 2. In Mass Effect 2 I hacked the game to give me infinite resources because I couldn't be assed to do the crappy mining. I'd "cheat" in order to get past Morrowind's crappy combat too.
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So you have to have Oblivion to apply Morrowblivion? Ugh.
It's a mod that covers Morrowind's basic structure with Oblivion assets. At best, you'd still need Oblivion.
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Fuck that.
Looking for widescreen mods and that one mod quietid brought up so that the combat isn't crappy. That way I won't have to boot up the console and do some tinkering.
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ugh
MGE error 2
could not open the mge settings file
the system cannot find the file specified
try running mgegui.exe to recreate the save files.
ugh
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Got it working. I put it on the best settings through MGE and I'm not even a graphic whore but this looks awful. Interface still sucks but it's better than the xbox version. Combat is better too as you can just clickclickclickclickclick. I think I'd rather just wait for Fallout new Vegas though.
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Got it working. I put it on the best settings through MGE and I'm not even a graphic whore but this looks awful.
It's not like MGE can magically make an 8 year old game look like it came out a few months ago. :lol
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Of course not. I'm just saying.
Now I'm remembering why I just got up and took Morrowind back to the store when I bought it for xbox: too slow, too clunky, not fun. Unless there's a way to start having fun immediately.
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Most Bethesda games build up slowly. At the start, your guy is a total push over and all you get is junk equipment. But, as you gain higher levels you get better skills, better equipment, and can take on more awesome beasties.
Of course, one of the major draws is wandering through the worlds they've created. If that doesn't interest you, then a big chunk of the appeal is missing from the outset.
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I thought Fallout 3 was fine. You have a neat intro that chronicles your life, something goes wrong, and then you're thrust into the wastes. It's the perfect build up and it makes you give a shit. Then you find lots of interesting stuff right outside the vault like the Megaton.
In Morrowind, you get off a boring ship, and you choose from a mix of 6+ boring races, and then some guy is like lol here's a letter take it to this one guy. So then you talk to a bunch of boring npc's, through a boring interface with 999 dialogue options that result in boring tidbits no one really cares about. Then you're all on your own from there.
The pacing between Fallout 3 and Morrowind is a complete 180. Fallout 3 coddles the player for maybe 30 minutes while giving a wealth of dialogue and options and customization then sets them loose. Morrowind sets players loose in the first 2 minutes and then it's really really hard to want to play it. Heck, Oblivion does a better job too!
I can get behind wandering the wastes in Fallout because I was a Fallout fan to begin with and the history and world of the game's is interesting. I can't say the same thing for Morrowind! It is boredom incarnate. Maybe there's some quest I'm missing that will make things interesting but so far, that's not the case!
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You should play the first two Elder Scrolls games. :lol
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From what I've seen, Elder Scrolls is textbook case as to how more open doesn't equate to a better gaming experience. It's the polar opposite of FF13 but gets the same result!
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Oblivion and Fallout 3 are very different experiences from Morrowind. They've got a faster pace, they're more fleshed out, and they're more player-friendly.
Morrowind is a marriage of 3D graphics with early-90's PC RPG sensibilities. Interaction is sparse, story is barebones, the player is booted out the gate and told to do whatever they feel like with only a vague notion of what they're supposed to do, and the pace is slow. It's very much like a Wizardry game, but with only one character, realtime battles, and 3D graphics. Me, personally, I don't have a big problem with that. I like the way it plays, for the most part, and I don't regret the dozens and dozens of hours that I poured into it. But it's an acquired taste and some just don't have the time or the patience or whatever to dig deeply into it.
The only thing I can tell you is to get out into the world, do some quests, level up your character, and go explore some cities and dungeons.
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I like Wizardry though!
I'm going to wait for New Vegas.
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Wizardry does a lot of the stuff you complained about though!
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But Wizardry makes up for it with awesome combat and dungeon design!
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And being brutally hard!
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:rock
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speaking of western rpg classics i've never played an ultima game :'(
is the combat good in those?
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speaking of western rpg classics i've never played an ultima game :'(
is the combat good in those?
It can be very rudimentary, especially in the earlier games. The appeal is definitely mostly the exploration and dialog but this is relative to the other games out at the time.
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aren't the supposedly best ones IV and V?
Sorry I place so much emphasis on good combat, but when you've played as many jrpgs as I have, it becomes habit.
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I liked VI and VII better (which I believe are False Prophet and The Black Gate). There seems to be a distinct line of fans of the middle ones and of the later ones.
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If you want to try an Ultima game, VII is probably the best place to start. The old ones...well, they're old. They're really very accessible by modern standards. Even VII seems pretty ancient now.
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Joe knows whatsup and the real reason you should be playing Ultima is for the beautiful music...
[youtube=560,345]e4YztEVXk7s[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]HbELMSD2Q3Q[/youtube]
[youtube=560,345]olBRunFapfY[/youtube]
Its unlike most JRPGs, it really exudes the feel of the age its trying to portray