THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: maxy on July 26, 2010, 05:35:24 AM

Title: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: maxy on July 26, 2010, 05:35:24 AM
HOLLYWOOD




According to the ramblings posted here

http://www.vg247.com/2010/07/26/rumour-gta-v-is-set-in%E2%80%A6/ (http://www.vg247.com/2010/07/26/rumour-gta-v-is-set-in%E2%80%A6/)

don't read if you want to save your sanity



Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: pilonv1 on July 26, 2010, 05:37:14 AM
wow that will be great
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: maxy on July 26, 2010, 07:17:38 AM
More fuel...

Quote
Eurogamer has learned from an independent source that Rockstar is ramping up research on locations around Hollywood.

Earlier today we heard that Tinseltown could well be the setting for Grand Theft Auto V.

Our source could not say whether the research was specific to the GTA series.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Ichirou on July 26, 2010, 09:07:01 AM
Uhhhh...but San Andreas was already set in what is basically L.A., so...

This is stupid.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: OptimoPeach on July 26, 2010, 09:11:17 AM
I hope the guy that wrote that gets cancer.

Also, Saints Row 3 will be better anyway
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: pilonv1 on July 26, 2010, 09:11:41 AM
GTA Entourage

edit: no shit Saints Row 3 will be better. Saints Row 3DS will be better.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: demi on July 26, 2010, 09:13:26 AM

Also, Saints Row 3 will be better anyway

Nailed it
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: tiesto on July 26, 2010, 09:22:44 AM
Hollywood MD? That's where I have to go for business travel next week.
 :P :P
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: AdmiralViscen on July 26, 2010, 09:36:14 AM
Uhhhh...but San Andreas was already set in what is basically L.A., so...

This is stupid.

And GTA3 was set in...
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 09:49:43 AM
Really? the pamplet in the gta: gay tony manual hinted at miami
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: tiesto on July 26, 2010, 10:02:29 AM
They should make a game that takes place in DC/Baltimore. "The Wire" type stuff for the b'more area, and all sorts of crazy political conspiracy stuff for the DC area...
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 26, 2010, 10:24:47 AM
Grand Theft Auto: Detroit would be pretty awesome.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 10:29:18 AM
Detroit? A part of the gta experience is experiencing real world places in game form. Who wants to visit Detroit?
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 26, 2010, 10:36:27 AM
Detroit? A part of the gta experience is experiencing real world places in game form. Who wants to visit Detroit?

You wouldn't want to go visit a crumbling, crime-ridden metropolis with a huge arsenal of heavy weapons? I know I would.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 10:39:58 AM
No, I mean, a part of the GTA experience for me is WOW I JUST GOT INTO A WILD CAR CHASE ACROSS THE MIAMI BEACH AND ENDED UP RUNNING THAT GUY or HAHA, THE HILLS IN SAN FRANCISCO SURE ARE FUN TO DRIVE AROUND AT 100 MPH TOO BAD I'D DIE IF I DID THAT IRL or something. It's fun taking famous, iconic locations and making them your playground.

As someone who has visited Detroit, and lived there for a month at one point in time, I think I can safely say that Detroit SUCKS. Sure, it'd be fun for a non-GTA game, but not for GTA.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: TripleA on July 26, 2010, 10:44:47 AM
They should make a game that takes place in DC/Baltimore. "The Wire" type stuff for the b'more area, and all sorts of crazy political conspiracy stuff for the DC area...

YES.

A video game like GTA set in the Baltimore and surrounding areas would be so boring.

Fixed.

Hollywood could work, they'll be able to create some 'shocking' gameplay scenarios that end up on the evening news / talkshows.

But imo GTA V should be set in the future, the 'modern-day-violence' theme is getting stale.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Ichirou on July 26, 2010, 10:46:18 AM
Sci-fi GTA, it's the natural evolution of the genre.  Steal hovercars and time-traveling DeLoreans, while evading cyber-police for thoughtcrimes.

Consequences will never be the same.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 10:51:31 AM
It won't be GTA5. It'll be a GTAIV: new city. Kinda like how GTAVC is basically GTA3: Vice City.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Robo on July 26, 2010, 11:01:11 AM
Stop trying to sell me this American Dream shit again and again, Rockstar. 

This series really needs to expand to new countries/continents.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 11:14:37 AM
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: TripleA on July 26, 2010, 11:34:44 AM
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.

That's exactly my point.

Rockstar can't really explore the past anymore (Vice City, San Andreas, Red Dead, L.A Noire, Agent) and they've already done the modern thing. So why not explore future territory?

Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 11:43:31 AM
exactly
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 26, 2010, 11:47:50 AM
1980's Hong Kong would be awesome. I'd take that in a heartbeat.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: cool breeze on July 26, 2010, 01:34:03 PM
isn't that what the new True Crime is supposed to be?

Hollywood as a setting depends on how they roll with it.  It would be funny because it's a similar setting to L.A. Noire, just not set around the 1950s.  But L.A. Noire is just Rockstar published and supposedly from the people behind The Getaway ( :-X).

I mostly just hope they change up the style from what GTA4 and RDR were.  Go see guy, talk for a while, talk while driving to the location, talk when you arrive, shoot one person, talk some more as you drive them back, and finish off by talking a bit more. 

I would like it if they added more rpg-lite elements like RDR had.  It seems like people are upset that America or certain settings are played out, but that is assuming it plays 100% like past games.  It could be a game with branching paths, dialog choices, rpg elements, and maybe even city building elements.  GTA5 will be like Sim City in Hollywood.  You arrive in the early days of Hollywood and design and manage several buildings yourself.  First half is the rise of your character, second half is the when you lose your billions and are forced to make a living as a Charlie Chaplin impersonator that is willing to give hand jobs for a small fee (Xbox 360 Natal Exclusive).  After four hours of this, some shady characters offer you work and the familiar GTA gameplay takes over. 
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: The Sceneman on July 26, 2010, 06:18:47 PM
zzzzzzzzzzzz
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Third on July 26, 2010, 06:43:15 PM
Setting is already better than RDR's.

Can't wait. Game will be swesome. Just like GTA 4 and its episodes. Still the best sandbox games of this gen.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 26, 2010, 07:03:40 PM
Just like GTA 4 and its episodes. Still the best sandbox games of this gen.

Not by a long shot.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: GilloD on July 26, 2010, 07:23:37 PM
It should be like Bart's Nightmare and you could enter different movies. Otherwise, who cares.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Sho Nuff on July 26, 2010, 07:29:36 PM
+1 for Detroit, that is somewhere I have always wanted to tear up in a videogame (and am too scared to visit in person)
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 26, 2010, 08:56:34 PM
oh god third :lol
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: The Sceneman on July 26, 2010, 09:05:48 PM
OSCAR WORTHY SCRIPT
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 27, 2010, 12:22:48 AM
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You're positing that the only difference is the setting, when in fact the larger divergence between GTA IV and RDR exists in the interactivity between the player and the world.

GTA IV is a beautiful, detailed world, but nothing happens in it unless you're on a mission. You can DO A STORY MISSION or you can GO RACE or you can CALL A DATE and do ONE OF FOUR BORING ACTIVITIES TOGETHER. Or sometimes THEY CALL YOU, but if you refuse to go out with them it reduces your friendship rating with that character. Whenever you , you have to TRAVEL to pick them up, sometimes all the way across the map, then TRAVEL to the location, then do something boring like DARTS or POOL, and then TRAVEL back to their place.

In contrast the interaction with the townspeople in RDR is immediate: someone has been robbed, so go get the thief; someone's horse was stolen, so go retrieve it; someone is kidnapping a victim or going to knife them, so save them; someone wants to duel... It's all right there, right in front of you, and you don't have to go looking for it.

And those are just the in-town instances; let's talk about being out looking for specific environmental objects like herbs or flowers and suddenly being confronted by something that doesn't like you being there, like a grizzly or a cougar. Or how about stopping to help someone and being ambushed by a half dozen heavily armed jerks?

All of these encounters could be transposed into the GTA IV world and made it deeper and more enjoyable. It's been stated repeatedly in interviews with Rockstar that they wanted to tell an immigrant's story, and they wanted the player to be able to focus on that. It follows that they removed the simple R3 Missions from GTA3 series games because of that goal. RDR has shown that with enough creativity you can keep the spontaneous-appearing events without impairing the overall narrative. You'll be seeing similar, even analogous activities in GTA V, for certain.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 27, 2010, 12:24:06 AM
OSCAR WORTHY SCRIPT
Stop that, you. :wag
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Reb on July 27, 2010, 05:42:40 AM
Fill Wederman better be one of game's mission offering characters.

It would be cool if you could see him slowly get thinner as the missions progress, and then inevitably fatter again.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Third on July 27, 2010, 05:54:52 AM
smh @ the GTA4 haters. Sure, it was a downgrade compared to the awesome San Andreas. But it's still the best sandbox game of this gen. FACT

Sales and metacritic prove that  :bow2
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 27, 2010, 10:04:57 AM
But it's still the best sandbox game of this gen. FACT

Let's see:

Crackdown was better
Dead Rising was better
Saints Row 2 was better
Red Faction: Guerrilla was better
Just Cause 2 was better
And...uh...Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars was better

So NOT FACT.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 27, 2010, 11:38:02 AM
Yeah, Chinatown Wars being more fun than GTA IV was pretty astonishing.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Third on July 27, 2010, 12:26:55 PM


Let's see:

Quote
Crackdown was better

Great game. But NO.

Quote
Dead Rising was better

Is this even a sandbox game ala GTA? NO

Quote
Saints Row 2 was better

Shitty game. NO

Quote
Red Faction: Guerrilla was better

Got boring very fast. So NO.
Quote
Just Cause 2 was better

Had potential. But NO.

Quote
And...uh...Grand Theft Auto: Chinatown Wars was better

Have not played it yet. And never will. I refuse to play sandbox games on shitty hardware.

Quote
So NOT FACT.

Yep, FACT. Reconfirmed.

:bow GTA4 :bow2
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 27, 2010, 12:29:19 PM
All a sandbox games has to do is being fun for maybe an hour or two and its instantly better than GTAIV and its Oscar-caliber script.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: drew on July 27, 2010, 12:59:37 PM
Quote
Dead Rising was better

Is this even a sandbox game ala GTA? NO

doesnt matter, since its better than any game this gen, so it is always > *
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Raban on July 27, 2010, 02:49:20 PM
Yeah they couldn't possibly be scouting LA for...y'know...LA Noire. No way ::)
spoiler (click to show/hide)
While I do admit, LA Noire is like almost done, I have a strong feeling this has nothing to do with GTAV.
[close]
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 27, 2010, 03:23:50 PM
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.
You couldn't be more wrong if you tried. You're positing that the only difference is the setting, when in fact the larger divergence between GTA IV and RDR exists in the interactivity between the player and the world.

GTA IV is a beautiful, detailed world, but nothing happens in it unless you're on a mission. You can DO A STORY MISSION or you can GO RACE or you can CALL A DATE and do ONE OF FOUR BORING ACTIVITIES TOGETHER. Or sometimes THEY CALL YOU, but if you refuse to go out with them it reduces your friendship rating with that character. Whenever you , you have to TRAVEL to pick them up, sometimes all the way across the map, then TRAVEL to the location, then do something boring like DARTS or POOL, and then TRAVEL back to their place.

In contrast the interaction with the townspeople in RDR is immediate: someone has been robbed, so go get the thief; someone's horse was stolen, so go retrieve it; someone is kidnapping a victim or going to knife them, so save them; someone wants to duel... It's all right there, right in front of you, and you don't have to go looking for it.

And those are just the in-town instances; let's talk about being out looking for specific environmental objects like herbs or flowers and suddenly being confronted by something that doesn't like you being there, like a grizzly or a cougar. Or how about stopping to help someone and being ambushed by a half dozen heavily armed jerks?

All of these encounters could be transposed into the GTA IV world and made it deeper and more enjoyable. It's been stated repeatedly in interviews with Rockstar that they wanted to tell an immigrant's story, and they wanted the player to be able to focus on that. It follows that they removed the simple R3 Missions from GTA3 series games because of that goal. RDR has shown that with enough creativity you can keep the spontaneous-appearing events without impairing the overall narrative. You'll be seeing similar, even analogous activities in GTA V, for certain.


I haven't played RDR.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: SantaC on July 27, 2010, 04:50:47 PM
Detroit? A part of the gta experience is experiencing real world places in game form. Who wants to visit Detroit?

You wouldn't want to go visit a crumbling, crime-ridden metropolis with a huge arsenal of heavy weapons? I know I would.

done that 1000 times in a game already
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 27, 2010, 06:27:19 PM
Himumu, it's fine that you haven't played RDR, but you should probably avoid making sweeping statements like you did until you actually have a basis for comparison.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 27, 2010, 06:36:33 PM
I don't see how it's a sweeping statement. Even if I haven't played it, I'm still sure that the fact RDR takes place in the wild west, a setting not very common amongst games, is a big part of its critical reception among fans and critics alike -- it's refreshing. I'm not saying a giant portion of GTA4 WASN'T the mechanics, because obviously they were.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 27, 2010, 06:46:25 PM
I..I'm not judging it.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Third on July 27, 2010, 06:51:48 PM
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west.

It is.

The only thing that's better in RDR are the graphics.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: naff on July 27, 2010, 09:29:11 PM
I'd say RDR is remarkably similar to GTAIV, the formulas almost nearly exactly the same with tweaks that make the world more immersive and fun. The difference is in setting and the world they put the player in not the mission structure or gameplay which feels 99% the same as GTAIV to me. I like GTAIV and RDR though so I'm not complaining and RDR is by far the slicker overall experience.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on July 28, 2010, 10:22:02 AM
Sci-fi GTA, it's the natural evolution of the genre.  Steal hovercars and time-traveling DeLoreans, while evading cyber-police for thoughtcrimes.

Consequences will never be the same.
You dun goofed up.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Ichirou on July 28, 2010, 10:24:00 AM
I..I'm not judging it.

I don't see how it's a sweeping statement. Even if I haven't played it, I'm still sure that the fact RDR takes place in the wild west, a setting not very common amongst games, is a big part of its critical reception among fans and critics alike -- it's refreshing. I'm not saying a giant portion of GTA4 WASN'T the mechanics, because obviously they were.

:lol
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 28, 2010, 11:50:36 AM
Sorry, what were the sales numbers on Call of Juarez and GUN again?
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Ichirou on July 28, 2010, 11:54:27 AM
Hell, trying to think farther back, I can't think of a single Western-set game that's been a big hit.  It's not just the setting.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 28, 2010, 12:01:45 PM
I'm not talking about sales. In which case, RDR's marketing was nothing but showing off the western setting and yet it was a success. I think my point still stands.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 28, 2010, 12:15:38 PM
The marketing on RDR was weird, and not very successful. Those droll videos about life in the old west and reverse IK driven damage models were pretty far from compelling. What RDR has moved on, more than anything else, is word of mouth.

You can think your point still stands all you want, you're still really, really wrong. Western games have been sales poison for a while now. And the difference isn't just setting. But since you've ignored what I spent time writing and continue to blather on about a game you haven't played, I'll treat your responses with similar dismissal.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Ichirou on July 28, 2010, 12:16:30 PM
chronovore is right on this one, Himuro.  Western settings have NEVER been a selling point for games.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 28, 2010, 12:19:29 PM
The marketing on RDR was weird, and not very successful. Those droll videos about life in the old west and reverse IK driven damage models were pretty far from compelling. What RDR has moved on, more than anything else, is word of mouth.

You can think your point still stands all you want, you're still really, really wrong. Western games have been sales poison for a while now. And the difference isn't just setting. But since you've ignored what I spent time writing and continue to blather on about a game you haven't played, I'll treat your responses with similar dismissal.

So you don't agree that a change in setting and time period wouldn't do the GTA series good? That's all my argument boils down to.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Ichirou on July 28, 2010, 12:22:20 PM
...but that's not what you SAID.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 28, 2010, 12:27:40 PM
I said that RDR appears to be GTAIV in the west with improvements. While the improvements are definitely the REAL reason RDR is so popular (and I am only citing a few reasons, from my observations, not all), from most impressions I've seen these improvements are also due to the setting and time period from all the impressions I've read. You don't have to worry about car physics, because you rely on horses. The game has cabs for quick access and transportation, but unlike GTA it never had the burden of relying on vehicular transportation to begin with. Things like that. It seems like  a lot of RDR's improvements over GTA4 are because of the setting itself, which creates limitations over the game that weren't possible in GTA4.
 
I'm mostly talking about fan feedback and reception. It's the total opposite of GTA4's, despite the fact that many people I know who have played the game have admittedly said that the core gameplay and mechanics between the two is pretty damn similar.

I was just making a passing comment, not an actual discussion on RDR because I haven't played it. Chronovore is the one who tried to make it a legit discussion, whereas I'm merely mentioning in passing and talking about fan reception.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 29, 2010, 03:45:22 AM
So you don't agree that a change in setting and time period wouldn't do the GTA series good? That's all my argument boils down to.

It's not an argument, it's a statement. And it is a sweeping generalization:
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.

As I said, the things which make RDR work are transposable to the GTA urban setting. As QuietID stated, most of the narrative mission stuff is identical to GTA IV's structure. I didn't have an issue with GTA IV's narrative missions, only that there is almost nothing to do other than them.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: maxy on July 29, 2010, 08:50:17 AM
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8yUbzcatvCw&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]

lol
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 29, 2010, 10:05:09 AM
:rofl
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Brehvolution on July 29, 2010, 10:10:11 AM
 :lol :lol
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 29, 2010, 11:43:00 AM
:rofl
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Sho Nuff on July 29, 2010, 11:57:39 AM
Holy shit there's another one  :lol

[youtube=560,345]xdxCrUvQ9Ic[/youtube]
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: maxy on July 29, 2010, 12:18:17 PM
 :lol :bow2
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 02:59:25 PM
:rofl
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Damian79 on July 29, 2010, 08:29:22 PM
When will people learn not to use sales as an indicator as to how good a game is?

EDIT:  And i should learn to read the whole thread before posting.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Diunx on July 29, 2010, 08:41:00 PM
Does Saints Row 2 have local co op?
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 29, 2010, 10:11:22 PM
When will people learn not to use sales as an indicator as to how good a game is?

EDIT:  And i should learn to read the whole thread before posting.
No worries; Himumu not only doesn't read my posts, I'm pretty sure he doesn't even check his own posts.

Does Saints Row 2 have local co op?
Split screen: Nope.
System link: I think so.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 10:33:57 PM
So you don't agree that a change in setting and time period wouldn't do the GTA series good? That's all my argument boils down to.

It's not an argument, it's a statement. And it is a sweeping generalization:
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.

As I said, the things which make RDR work are transposable to the GTA urban setting. As QuietID stated, most of the narrative mission stuff is identical to GTA IV's structure. I didn't have an issue with GTA IV's narrative missions, only that there is almost nothing to do other than them.

There you go about sweeping generalizations. I only use that when I'm offended about something.

And yet Quietid and your posts still suggest exactly what I have been saying all along, that RDR's gameplay is pretty similar to GTA4's, but the simplicity of the western setting fixes most of GTA4's problems. In GTA4, driving is an issue for a lot of people: the physics make vehicles not fun to drive, the city is too big to want to drive from one end to the next, the game employs more realistic traffic making you have to go even slower. With a western setting, this is not an issue because: 1. you mainly use horses and horses don't need to drift or edge around tight city streets or  2. due to the desert setting one does not need to go through miles of traffic. And this is just vehicular transportation. I haven't mentioned shooting (more simplistic guns) and other features people felt were lacking in GTA4. From every single thing I've read about it, the desert setting seems to compliment the GTA4 gameplay more so than GTA4 itself.

This is all I meant by my original post, so sorry for not going into more detail, my original post was merely an observation. I wasn't judging (like you have suggested) or anything as I haven't played it. One can't make minute observations? I don't see why you have to get up in arms about an observation someone makes anyways.

I not once argued sales. You brought up sales. All I brought up was an observation. You have since done nothing but try to prove me wrong, why I don't know.

I will repeat: a change in not only time period but setting would do wonders for the GTA formula. It could help iron out the kinks and fix the problems a lot of people have had with GTA4: the physics, the scope, the story. I think the guys at Rockstar are good for it and I'd like to see something different from them.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Diunx on July 29, 2010, 10:34:25 PM
System link? that's fucking stupid, smh.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 10:34:33 PM
When will people learn not to use sales as an indicator as to how good a game is?

No one brought up sales as an indicator for quality.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: demi on July 29, 2010, 10:40:44 PM
System link? that's fucking stupid, smh.

Which one is too poor to buy a 360, you or your friend?

Both?
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Diunx on July 29, 2010, 10:51:00 PM
:'(

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I'm saving for a ps3 since it is the superior console of this generation
[close]
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 29, 2010, 11:05:11 PM
So you don't agree that a change in setting and time period wouldn't do the GTA series good? That's all my argument boils down to.

It's not an argument, it's a statement. And it is a sweeping generalization:
From what I've seen of RDR it's basically GTA4 in the west. This definitely means that the crux of GTA's main problem right now is setting. I don't even think a different country/continent would fix things. It has to be a completely different time period.

As I said, the things which make RDR work are transposable to the GTA urban setting. As QuietID stated, most of the narrative mission stuff is identical to GTA IV's structure. I didn't have an issue with GTA IV's narrative missions, only that there is almost nothing to do other than them.

There you go about sweeping generalizations. I only use that when I'm offended about something.

And yet Quietid and your posts still suggest exactly what I have been saying all along, that RDR's gameplay is pretty similar to GTA4's, but the simplicity of the western setting fixes most of GTA4's problems. In GTA4, driving is an issue for a lot of people: the physics make vehicles not fun to drive, the city is too big to want to drive from one end to the next, the game employs more realistic traffic making you have to go even slower. With a western setting, this is not an issue because: 1. you mainly use horses and horses don't need to drift or edge around tight city streets or  2. due to the desert setting one does not need to go through miles of traffic. And this is just vehicular transportation. I haven't mentioned shooting (more simplistic guns) and other features people felt were lacking in GTA4. From every single thing I've read about it, the desert setting seems to compliment the GTA4 gameplay more so than GTA4 itself.

This is all I meant by my original post, so sorry for not going into more detail, my original post was merely an observation. I wasn't judging (like you have suggested) or anything as I haven't played it. One can't make minute observations? I don't see why you have to get up in arms about an observation someone makes anyways.

I not once argued sales. You brought up sales. All I brought up was an observation. You have since done nothing but try to prove me wrong, why I don't know.

I will repeat: a change in not only time period but setting would do wonders for the GTA formula. It could help iron out the kinks and fix the problems a lot of people have had with GTA4: the physics, the scope, the story. I think the guys at Rockstar are good for it and I'd like to see something different from them.

Change in setting does help, yes, but just using that to explain why people like it better ignores actual formula changes and additions.

Dead Eye - Allows you to slow time to a crawl as you aim and pick off bad guys. There's three different levels of this that you unlock over time.

Fast travel - Yes, fast travel. From your camp site, which you can set up any where, you can fast travel to various locations that you've been to already.

World - The world's actually larger than GTAIV's world, but it feels far less empty. In GTAIV everything is really spread out, forcing you to drive from one side of the world to the other to get to a new mission or safe house. Regardless of where you are in RDR, it feels like there's always something to do. It makes the world feel much more alive, instead of static and boring like GTAIV.

Honor/Fame system - Nearly every action you perform gives you Fame or Honor. Fame provides you with more money for doing missions and Honor governs how everyone in the world reacts to you.

Missions - Some might disagree with me here, but I find the missions in RDR to be more interesting. Some of that you can account to the setting, I'll agree there, but it feels like there's a much bigger variety.

Side missions - There are people scattered around the world that will give you side missions to do for money, fame, and honor. Some have you looking for a lost relative and others have you convincing a man's wife to take back her cheating husband. Nothing amazing, perhaps, but they're fun diversions. You can also go hunting or gather herbs, both are sources of money.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Damian79 on July 29, 2010, 11:13:39 PM
When will people learn not to use sales as an indicator as to how good a game is?

No one brought up sales as an indicator for quality.

Quote
smh @ the GTA4 haters. Sure, it was a downgrade compared to the awesome San Andreas. But it's still the best sandbox game of this gen. FACT

Sales and metacritic prove that

It was on previous page.  :/
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 11:14:28 PM
Thank you for the informative post, rumbler. A lot of these things added still seem like things that were features because of the setting (searching for things for money for example) and I still stand by my point, but it sounds like the guys at R* San Diego managed to outshine North in every category.

I would actually take issue with fast travel in a GTA game. I mean, the name of the game is Grand Theft Auto so to me, a big part of the games is driving. If driving is not fun, I won't like it as much. If I'd rather use a cab to go from one end of an island than drive in a fast sports car, something really wrong.

I will buy Red Dead Redemption soon along with Mario Galaxy 2. I'll play RDR after DQ9.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 11:14:51 PM
When will people learn not to use sales as an indicator as to how good a game is?

No one brought up sales as an indicator for quality.

Quote
smh @ the GTA4 haters. Sure, it was a downgrade compared to the awesome San Andreas. But it's still the best sandbox game of this gen. FACT

Sales and metacritic prove that



It was on previous page.  :/

Oh, that guy is an idiot anyways.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 29, 2010, 11:17:59 PM
Just to illustrate how awesome RDR is:

I was walking through Armadillo one night and I saw some guy bust out of the saloon and attack one of the prostitutes with a knife. He knocked her on the ground and jumped on her. Without even thinking, I whipped out my pistol and blasted the back of his head out. And, just like that, I became a hero.

I think that kind of exemplifies one of the biggest changes, RDR doesn't force you to be some wishy-washy murdering scumbag. You CAN be, but it's not forced on you. If you want to be a jerk and run around robbing people or beating people up to get what you want, you can do that. But if you want to be the white knight of the wasteland, rescuing ladyfolk and delivering frontier justice to outlaws, you can do that too. What type of character John is throughout the game is put much more in the hands of the player.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 11:19:17 PM
That's the kind of stuff GTA needs, but that's during a time when outlaws were more common. Hopefully the next GTA examines the underbelly of the shitstains of society so they could pull stuff like that off.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 29, 2010, 11:21:29 PM
I added some more stuff to my post.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: The Sceneman on July 29, 2010, 11:21:44 PM
I would actually take issue with fast travel in a GTA game. I mean, the name of the game is Grand Theft Auto so to me, a big part of the games is driving. If driving is not fun, I won't like it as much. If I'd rather use a cab to go from one end of an island than drive in a fast sports car, something really wrong.

I'd like to say that I only used the fast travel function later on in the game when I mopping up for 100%. Just riding around is really fun for a long time, and you'll generally always bump into places and objects that are part of one of your many side objectives. And youre always side tracked by things like "oh theres an armadillo, need to kill that for a challenge." then youre like "oh chasing that animal has brought up another 'stranger' mission blip on the map, better check that out". Then you go and do that mission and ride to another town and youre like "hey I might play some poker". Then two hours later youre like "oh yeah I was riding towards that story mission". FUN AS HELL DREAM GAME
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 29, 2010, 11:22:55 PM
I would actually take issue with fast travel in a GTA game. I mean, the name of the game is Grand Theft Auto so to me, a big part of the games is driving. If driving is not fun, I won't like it as much. If I'd rather use a cab to go from one end of an island than drive in a fast sports car, something really wrong.

FUN AS HELL DREAM GAME

Couldn't agree more.

If Rockstar can somehow translate the feel and fun of RDR to the modern world in GTA, then they'll have an absolute winner on their hands.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 11:24:03 PM
GTA4 did have stranger missions and I loved the stranger missions.

But they weren't really common and the game never really advertised it. It's like, you get a blue person on the map and you can do a mission for them. Sometimes the blue person blends in with the background and I can't fucking see them either.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 11:26:27 PM
Just to illustrate how awesome RDR is:

I was walking through Armadillo one night and I saw some guy bust out of the saloon and attack one of the prostitutes with a knife. He knocked her on the ground and jumped on her. Without even thinking, I whipped out my pistol and blasted the back of his head out. And, just like that, I became a hero.

I think that kind of exemplifies one of the biggest changes, RDR doesn't force you to be some wishy-washy murdering scumbag. You CAN be, but it's not forced on you. If you want to be a jerk and run around robbing people or beating people up to get what you want, you can do that. But if you want to be the white knight of the wasteland, rescuing ladyfolk and delivering frontier justice to outlaws, you can do that too. What type of character John is throughout the game is put much more in the hands of the player.

What is John like in cutscenes? Is he ambiguous or...
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 29, 2010, 11:37:46 PM
He's kind of like Clint Eastwood/The Man With No Name than a cold-blooded killer. He's got his own goals in mind and his past is pretty checkered though.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Robo on July 29, 2010, 11:48:09 PM
The plot definitely nudges you down the "hero" route.  Marsten feels some guilt over his past actions (although he also has a stupid excuse for them) and is constantly reminding everyone that he's just trying to get back to his family and yadda yadda yadda, up until the very end.  Since your actions have no effect on how the story plays out, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're gunning down civilians and robbing every bank in the west.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: etiolate on July 29, 2010, 11:48:37 PM
RDR is the best GTA
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 29, 2010, 11:49:08 PM
The plot definitely nudges you down the "hero" route.  Marsten feels some guilt over his past actions (although he also has a stupid excuse for them) and is constantly reminding everyone that he's just trying to get back to his family and yadda yadda yadda, up until the very end.  Since your actions have no effect on how the story plays out, it doesn't make a whole lot of sense if you're gunning down civilians and robbing every bank in the west.

Goddamit.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: cool breeze on July 29, 2010, 11:52:42 PM
I don't think John is like Blondie at all.  Actually, one issue I had with Red Dead Redemption was that it wasn't like spaghetti westerns.   It's not really a negative and more that the reason I like the western setting is for those movies of that style.  Misaligned expectations and all that.

 
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Robo on July 29, 2010, 11:55:18 PM
He's basically Deke Thornton from The Wild Bunch.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on July 30, 2010, 04:05:46 AM
There you go about sweeping generalizations. I only use that when I'm offended about something.

And yet Quietid and your posts still suggest exactly what I have been saying all along, that RDR's gameplay is pretty similar to GTA4's, but the simplicity of the western setting fixes most of GTA4's problems. In GTA4, driving is an issue for a lot of people: the physics make vehicles not fun to drive, the city is too big to want to drive from one end to the next, the game employs more realistic traffic making you have to go even slower. With a western setting, this is not an issue because: 1. you mainly use horses and horses don't need to drift or edge around tight city streets or  2. due to the desert setting one does not need to go through miles of traffic. And this is just vehicular transportation. I haven't mentioned shooting (more simplistic guns) and other features people felt were lacking in GTA4. From every single thing I've read about it, the desert setting seems to compliment the GTA4 gameplay more so than GTA4 itself.

This is all I meant by my original post, so sorry for not going into more detail, my original post was merely an observation. I wasn't judging (like you have suggested) or anything as I haven't played it. One can't make minute observations? I don't see why you have to get up in arms about an observation someone makes anyways.

I not once argued sales. You brought up sales. All I brought up was an observation. You have since done nothing but try to prove me wrong, why I don't know.

I will repeat: a change in not only time period but setting would do wonders for the GTA formula. It could help iron out the kinks and fix the problems a lot of people have had with GTA4: the physics, the scope, the story. I think the guys at Rockstar are good for it and I'd like to see something different from them.
Himumu, I'm not trying to prove you wrong, you simply are wrong and I've taken the time to try and show you in what ways you are wrong. If I've failed to be sufficiently polite while demonstrating this, or if you've taken the intense tone of my arguments personally, I'm sorry to have caused you distress.

I note with sadness and frustration that you're still imagining all these reasons why RDR works and GTA IV does not, getting some of it right and some of it wrong. Of course "one can make minute observations" or "one can make broad statements which read as though one hasn't played the game, because in fact one hasn't" -- but you should expect to get called on it by people who have played the game and actually know what they're talking about.

I'll repeat this one last time, but I'm done after this attempt: The nature of the systems which make RDR compelling and consistently exciting to play can be adapted to any setting, including urban crime. I'll paraphrase a friend who said about GTA IV vs RDR, "One is full of life but devoid of content, the other is lifeless and desolate, but full of opportunity.

QuietID and I agree that the missions are very similar to GTA IV's structure, and I agree with you that the western setting has positively influenced my feelings about some missions involving nothing but "go there and shoot those guys" - in a western, there are lots of bad people who need to be killed, and frontier justice feels good, man. Riding up on a gang that is about to lynch some guy's wife? Give me my goddamned white hat. While I think it would have a different flavor than RDR, GTA IV would have benefited letting Niko break up muggings, stop rapes, or be ambushed while helping a woman with a stalled car. Hopefully they'll be more creative than I've been with this direct import of RDR ambient tasks into GTA FIVE.


GTA4 did have stranger missions and I loved the stranger missions.

But they weren't really common and the game never really advertised it. It's like, you get a blue person on the map and you can do a mission for them. Sometimes the blue person blends in with the background and I can't fucking see them either.
Here, you and I are in agreement. I didn't even know about the Stranger missions until I was finished with the main story. In GTA IV the strangers show up on the map/radar only if both of the following conditions are true: (a) Niko is physically near them, maybe within one city block, and (b) the prerequisite narrative missions have been successfully completed. So you can drive around the entire map, find no Strangers, clear one more story mission, opening up perhaps several Stranger encounters, but unless you revisit that specific portion of the map, you'll never encounter them. What a waste. In RDR they seemed to only have the first condition, though I did find that Aztec Gold only appeared when I was very nearby its initiation location.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Himu on July 30, 2010, 04:26:21 AM
That's the ticket. I may get RDR this weekend.

The secret to finding strangers in GTA4 isn't the mini map but the BIG map. Bring up the legend and if you see "stranger" or "person" or whatever, map a blip and head for that location.

Great idea, horrible execution. But TLAD and Gay Tony handled it better. Random strangers were more common and they often had a better story to tell.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: naff on July 30, 2010, 10:18:45 AM
Change in setting does help, yes, but just using that to explain why people like it better ignores actual formula changes and additions.

Dead Eye - Allows you to slow time to a crawl as you aim and pick off bad guys. There's three different levels of this that you unlock over time.

Good addition. Don't really want to see it in GTA. I would like to see the auto aim though which I thought was great giving you more freedom than the traditional lock and fire.

Fast travel - Yes, fast travel. From your camp site, which you can set up any where, you can fast travel to various locations that you've been to already.

GTAIV, press Y or Triangle to hail a cab or call Romans cabby, press X or A to travel to destination on map instantly for small fee.

World - The world's actually larger than GTAIV's world, but it feels far less empty. In GTAIV everything is really spread out, forcing you to drive from one side of the world to the other to get to a new mission or safe house. Regardless of where you are in RDR, it feels like there's always something to do. It makes the world feel much more alive, instead of static and boring like GTAIV.

Hated this about GTAIV, I want the random NPC interactions from RDR in GTA so bad. Having the collectathon quests that were actually kinda fun were cool too. Finding pigeons/cases has always been lame in GTA.

Honor/Fame system - Nearly every action you perform gives you Fame or Honor. Fame provides you with more money for doing missions and Honor governs how everyone in the world reacts to you.

A more advanced system going back to GTA's roots on PS1 of having alignments with different gangs and a more free form story along those lines would be really cool (GTA:London had this right? I remember blasting away all the rednecks and getting down with the Yakuza) . I'm not interested in moral alignment in GTA. You're a bad motherfucker in GTA, nuff said, Tommy Vercetti is the best GTA character imo, he never seemed worried about his actions. He wanted power and freedom and that's what I wanted to and we got it, same with CJ on an even grander scale. Unlike Niko who seemed constrained from beginning to end.

Missions - Some might disagree with me here, but I find the missions in RDR to be more interesting. Some of that you can account to the setting, I'll agree there, but it feels like there's a much bigger variety.

Story and environments were more varied with a slightly more diverse array of objectives which could be combined to make more permutations of missions, but really just the same old...

Side missions - There are people scattered around the world that will give you side missions to do for money, fame, and honor. Some have you looking for a lost relative and others have you convincing a man's wife to take back her cheating husband. Nothing amazing, perhaps, but they're fun diversions. You can also go hunting or gather herbs, both are sources of money.

Side missions were what GTAIV seriously lacked and any real impact on your environment/sense of power. I want to control areas, buy properties, build up businesses, have a gang, go to the gym etc. Pretty much what Rockstar nailed with San Andreas and Vice City and dropped for realisms sake in Liberty City.

Free Roam is an awesome addition too, along with the posse system and the seamless integration with their various multiplayer modes. I quickly got bored of rinsing and repeating the same outposts though. I'm thinking GTAV can improve on a lot of what RDR did right, they've got a guaranteed blockbuster from whatever they put out anyway, so I'm imagining they're going to pull out all the stops whereas, as good as it is, it seems they didn't expect RDR to do as well as it did. Hopefully Rockstar follow a similar trajectory as with their PS2 titles.. Start out with the seminal serious dark game then do spin offs that are loads more fun and wild. They kinda followed that thinking with TLAD and Gay Tony so I expect something similar from whatever they do next.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: naff on July 30, 2010, 10:24:21 AM
I also think a change of setting would make another GTA this gen waaaay more fun. I'm so sick of big American cities (and Americans). I want to them to take GTA to Europe or Asia or Latin America.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 30, 2010, 10:36:24 AM
Quote
GTAIV, press Y or Triangle to hail a cab or call Romans cabby, press X or A to travel to destination on map instantly for small fee.

In RDR you can fast-travel for free. 8)

I haven't used it though and probably won't. There's too many things that you can miss in RDR by using it, unlike in GTAIV.

Quote
A more advanced system going back to GTA's roots on PS1 of having alignments with different gangs and a more free form story along those lines would be really cool (GTA:London had this right? I remember blasting away all the rednecks and getting down with the Yakuza) . I'm not interested in moral alignment in GTA. You're a bad motherfucker in GTA, nuff said, Tommy Vercetti is the best GTA character imo, he never seemed worried about his actions. He wanted power and freedom and that's what I wanted to and we got it, same with CJ on an even grander scale. Unlike Niko who seemed constrained from beginning to end.

It doesn't necessarily have to be a moral system. They could call it "Respect" or something and have that govern the types of job offers you get and how much people are willing to pay you for it. Also, I noticed that money seems to be play a bigger role in RDR, in GTAIV it felt like all you need it for was ammunition and that was frequent enough during mission to be unnecessary as well.

I'd also like to see the gang system make a comeback.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: naff on July 30, 2010, 11:00:51 AM
San Andreas did it well although I'd like to choose who I align with, this would be at the detriment of the story however if done well could make for a lot of replay value getting those value hunting gamers in there. I just want it to be more freeform but it could still have that overarching story that drives you through the game. GTAIV was basically a linear game set in a sand box  :maf telling you to choose 1,2 or 3 drive from A to B and do X repeatedly with whatever side quests* there were to do being either minor distractions not worth my time or straight up annoying in your face shit trying to guilt trip you into character interaction with people you didn't give a fuck about  :-\

Dates, getting drunk  ::), playing games... Not really side quests just tangential bullshit.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Great Rumbler on July 30, 2010, 11:19:38 AM
GTAIV was basically a linear game set in a sand box  :maf

That really nails it, I think. GTAIV had the illusion of open world and choice, but it never really gave it to you. The game set you on a rigid course and never really let you deviate from it, except to wander around aimlessly in a car. I understand that, in their mind, it had to be done to tell this story that they wanted to tell, but it really didn't help matters that I didn't really care for the story or the characters.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: Robo on July 30, 2010, 11:24:43 AM
Didn't Lost and the Damned have some sort of gang warfare element to it?  Was that like San Andreas, or something totally different?
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: naff on July 30, 2010, 11:29:07 AM
Didn't Lost and the Damned have some sort of gang warfare element to it?  Was that like San Andreas, or something totally different?

Yeah I think so. I've actually only played Gay Tony, but I was all GTA'd out so never finished it and gave the set of both games to a friend.
Title: Re: Random dribble:Next GTA set in....
Post by: chronovore on August 03, 2010, 10:27:50 AM
Didn't Lost and the Damned have some sort of gang warfare element to it?  Was that like San Andreas, or something totally different?
Yeah, there's a turf war but I haven't played through to that point TLAD was too serious for me, but TBoGT was pretty much old school GTA3 era craziness, and lots of fun.