I prefer that they move it from their proposed location to right at Ground Zero.
I'm getting tired of the yokels and bumpkins in the tea parties that lose their shit over anything that doesn't benefit them directly. This being a clear example.
Although I think the controversy exists only because it is a way for Republicans to shore up more support for the elections this November. I heard there was a mosque closer to ground zero than this current proposed site. Never checked up on that but it wouldn't surprise me if that is the case. The controversy is just manufactured outrage to help cajole some fence sitters to go Republican.
Personally I don't care and if it is going to cost a lot of money, I can't hate on any construction projects that gives work to the construction workers and other manual laborers. Stimulating the economy and what not.
see, i have absolutely zero to do with the republicunts and tea faggers, youve got to ignore all those mentally faded flag clutchers, this is beyond fucked up ironic, they want to stick a religious center right at the base of the worst example of killing in the name of god in these modern times, religion has killed more people than anything else in history, and to put a place of worship right at the head of the tombstone of 3000 victims of just that is beyond fucked - how someone could be so god damn ignorant as to not see this correlation blows my motherfucking mind
i'm all against religion. big time atheist. big time secularist. i think religion in all its forms (christianity, islam, judaism, whatever) only work to hold back societal evolution. that being said i still haven't heard a good reason why that mosque shouldn't be built there that doesn't reek of discrimination or bigoted views.
It's the equivalent of building an German bierhaus next to Auschwitz. It's just not the right place.
i'm all against religion. big time atheist. big time secularist. i think religion in all its forms (christianity, islam, judaism, whatever) only work to hold back societal evolution. that being said i still haven't heard a good reason why that mosque shouldn't be built there that doesn't reek of discrimination or bigoted views.
ok then, ill put this as clearly as i can
it has nothing to do with muslims, its about building a place of worship on or right next to one of the biggest religiously motivated mass murders in history, if you dont get that then youre hopeless, sorry
Okay, legit question. It's just NEAR ground zero. It's not on TOP of Ground Zero. Right? Everything I've read says it's near Ground Zero and not AT Ground Zero.
The way I look at it, they've probably built Christian churches where Christianity has committed atrocities. Nothing new. I mean, there's still churches in Salem, Massachusettes, right? There's still churches in every city where the Inquisition took place, in fact, probably the same fucking churches.
If we are going to blame Muslims for shit they did bad and keep them from building churches, we got a backlog of retribution to get to for every other fucking religion. Fuck, including Muslims.
i voted "i don't give a shit"
This about sums up the whole thing:
[img]http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg[img]
drew I thought you were cool.
This about sums up the whole thing:
(http://www.balloon-juice.com/wp-content/uploads/2010/08/TacgJ.jpg)
For what its worth it seems to be two major groups clustered around this issue. The usual "I hate muslims" kind of group and the other "sensitive" (I'll call them hyper-sensitive) group. I think there is some distinction worth nothing between the groups even though I don't agree with either and both positions essentially boil down to denying somebody their rights. And the fact that you have some of the former group hiding in the latter group.I don't care too. However drew I think is coming off some Christopher Hitchens angle ( all religion is evil, 9-11 has shown how evil religion is etc) and not those two groups you highlighted above.
I think what's been most disgusting is that instead of trying to dialogue with the group building the mosque (even if I disagree with that sort of capitulation) and trying to work out a compromise there have been active attempts to demonize this group and arguably by extension all muslims living in this country. Really nasty stuff imo.
For what its worth it seems to be two major groups clustered around this issue. The usual "I hate muslims" kind of group and the other "sensitive" (I'll call them hyper-sensitive) group. I think there is some distinction worth nothing between the groups even though I don't agree with either and both positions essentially boil down to denying somebody their rights. And the fact that you have some of the former group hiding in the latter group.I don't care too. However drew I think is coming off some Christopher Hitchens angle ( all religion is evil, 9-11 has shown how evil religion is etc) and not those two groups you highlighted above.
I think what's been most disgusting is that instead of trying to dialogue with the group building the mosque (even if I disagree with that sort of capitulation) and trying to work out a compromise there have been active attempts to demonize this group and arguably by extension all muslims living in this country. Really nasty stuff imo.
Hmm drew if they were building a church instead would you have a problem as well?
I think what's been most disgusting is that instead of trying to dialogue with the group building the mosque (even if I disagree with that sort of capitulation) and trying to work out a compromise there have been active attempts to demonize this group and arguably by extension all muslims living in this country. Really nasty stuff imo.
"yes, at least it'll get built, unlike that ridiculous freedom tower"
What a perfect option. I've been pissed off about the speed of rebuilding the WTC site for years now. It's pathetic.
The building isn't even within viewing distance of Ground Zero. It's a fucking community center, not some minaret-topped, 100-feet-tall mosque most people associate with Islam. It isn't some fucking symbol of Islam's victory over the American menace. Like T EXP said, this controversy is manufactured by the Republicans -- yea sure, some distinguished mentally-challenged fellows are genuinely outraged, but without the media's coverage of the Repub's bullshit, I don't think most people would give two flying fucks.
Some of the victims' families definitely don't like it, and that's understandable, but then there were people among that group who didn't want any rebuilding at all at Ground Zero. So fuck them. I empathize with them and I know some people will never get over such a tragedy, but life has to go on.
"yes, at least it'll get built, unlike that ridiculous freedom tower"
What a perfect option. I've been pissed off about the speed of rebuilding the WTC site for years now. It's pathetic.
The building isn't even within viewing distance of Ground Zero. It's a fucking community center, not some minaret-topped, 100-feet-tall mosque most people associate with Islam. It isn't some fucking symbol of Islam's victory over the American menace. Like T EXP said, this controversy is manufactured by the Republicans -- yea sure, some distinguished mentally-challenged fellows are genuinely outraged, but without the media's coverage of the Repub's bullshit, I don't think most people would give two flying fucks.
Some of the victims' families definitely don't like it, and that's understandable, but then there were people among that group who didn't want any rebuilding at all at Ground Zero. So fuck them. I empathize with them and I know some people will never get over such a tragedy, but life has to go on.
Summed up my feelings on the matter perfectly, Cajole... wasn't the Freedom Tower supposed to be completed in like 2007 originally? :P
"yes, at least it'll get built, unlike that ridiculous freedom tower"
What a perfect option. I've been pissed off about the speed of rebuilding the WTC site for years now. It's pathetic.
The building isn't even within viewing distance of Ground Zero. It's a fucking community center, not some minaret-topped, 100-feet-tall mosque most people associate with Islam. It isn't some fucking symbol of Islam's victory over the American menace. Like T EXP said, this controversy is manufactured by the Republicans -- yea sure, some distinguished mentally-challenged fellows are genuinely outraged, but without the media's coverage of the Repub's bullshit, I don't think most people would give two flying fucks.
Some of the victims' families definitely don't like it, and that's understandable, but then there were people among that group who didn't want any rebuilding at all at Ground Zero. So fuck them. I empathize with them and I know some people will never get over such a tragedy, but life has to go on.
Summed up my feelings on the matter perfectly, Cajole... wasn't the Freedom Tower supposed to be completed in like 2007 originally? :P
I don't know the entire construction and negotiating history, but it's not planned to be completed now until 2013. 12 fucking years.
Also, if you think the ~3000 people killed on 9/11 make it the largest religiously motivated slaughter of people in modern time, you are undereducated, sorry.
Hmm drew if they were building a church instead would you have a problem as well?
for the last time, yes, how is this so hard to understand, this is about religion, not islam, you goddamn dolts
I'm sorry, I didn't know we were in court
I just keep thinking of how bitter I'd be if I died there that day with the knowledge that it'd be used as a push to get a mosque built, the speech they gave in new York the other day with all those religious figures seemed like a slap in the face to people that died because of religious motives, it's a selfish thought, all it's doing is making people that are still alive feel better about themselves because they are oh so understanding and clairvoyant
Stoney I respect your class and maturity, but you need to learn how to smack a bitch sometimes. Come on
I need to get laid
Look at the photos. This neighborhood is not hallowed. The people who live and work here are not obsessed with 9/11. The blocks around Ground Zero are like every other hard-working neighborhood in New York, where Muslims are just another thread of the city fabric.
Real Talk: if Christian extremists flew planes into those buildings, and there was a ten story church being built there, there would be no controversy in this country's newspapers about the church being built.No such thing:
It's been escalated so much that neither side can back down.
As far as I am concerned it's a NYC issue and thats it.
if you had half a brain youd realize that theres obviously nothing legal that you could counter the plan with, its a question of right and wrong, from the gut, not the head, and this is obviously pretty fucked up in that regard
if you had half a brain youd realize that theres obviously nothing legal that you could counter the plan with, its a question of right and wrong, from the gut, not the head, and this is obviously pretty fucked up in that regard
I just keep thinking of how bitter I'd be if I died there that day with the knowledge that it'd be used as a push to get a mosque built, the speech they gave in new York the other day with all those religious figures seemed like a slap in the face to people that died because of religious motives, it's a selfish thought, all it's doing is making people that are still alive feel better about themselves because they are oh so understanding and clairvoyant
if you had half a brain youd realize that theres obviously nothing legal that you could counter the plan with, its a question of right and wrong, from the gut, not the head, and this is obviously pretty fucked up in that regard
religion has killed more people than anything else in history,
What if someone put a bank nearby :omg don't a lot of people kill each other over money :omg:lol
What if someone put a bank nearby :omg don't a lot of people kill each other over money :omg
Or land. :omg People get killed over land all the time. :omgWhat if someone put a bank nearby :omg don't a lot of people kill each other over money :omg
Or a flag. Lots of people kill each other over flags too. :omg
if you had half a brain youd realize that theres obviously nothing legal that you could counter the plan with, its a question of right and wrong, from the gut, not the head, and this is obviously pretty fucked up in that regard
if you had half a brain youd realize that theres obviously nothing legal that you could counter the plan with, its a question of right and wrong, from the gut, not the head, and this is obviously pretty fucked up in that regard
because gut decisions are the way to gospoiler (click to show/hide)(http://tinyurl.com/ykrqrko)[close]
oh look, a candian trying to lecture me on america, why dont you go shampoo your horse and leave me alone
We hold it for a fundamental and undeniable truth, “that Religion or the duty which we owe to our Creator and the Manner of discharging it, can be directed only by reason and conviction, not by force or violence.” The Religion then of every man must be left to the conviction and conscience of every man; and it is the right of every man to exercise it as these may dictate. This right is in its nature an unalienable right. It is unalienable; because the opinions of men, depending only on the evidence contemplated by their own minds, cannot follow the dictates of other men: It is unalienable also; because what is here a right towards men, is a duty towards the Creator. It is the duty of every man to render to the Creator such homage, and such only, as he believes to be acceptable to him
this just in, beavers and eagles embracing, shedding single tears ::)
What if someone put a bank nearby :omg don't a lot of people kill each other over money :omg
this just in: drew thread backfire, incapable of responding except in weak one-liners that don't support his position in any way. ::)
this just in: drew thread backfire, incapable of responding except in weak one-liners that don't support his position in any way. ::)
im currently enjoying a nice narcotic buzz and have a few things id like to do tonight, so no, i dont feel like writing paragraphs debating with some guy on the internet, im so sorry to disappoint you
what about a 40 storey high statue of Rambo and Dutch?
TWIN POWERS
Drew bringing all the intellectual heft a half semester of Ohio community college can give.
Shouldn't the real issue be that it's been almost 10 years since the disaster and they haven't built a fucking thing on the site yet? That's where the outrage should be.
Shouldn't the real issue be that it's been almost 10 years since the disaster and they haven't built a fucking thing on the site yet? That's where the outrage should be.
http://www.talkingpointsmemo.com/gallery/2010/08/welcome-to-the-neighborhood-a-look-at-the-area-around-the-ground-zero-mosque.php?img=2&ref=fpblg
Strip club within 10 miles of Ground Zero :usacry
i still cant believe some of you morons think that this decision is a good idea, it is completely devoid of tact and class, not to mention common frigging sense, jesus christ what is wrong with you
i still cant believe some of you morons think that this decision is a good idea, it is completely devoid of tact and class, not to mention common frigging sense, jesus christ what is wrong with you
Shouldn't the real issue be that it's been almost 10 years since the disaster and they haven't built a fucking thing on the site yet? That's where the outrage should be.
Free market and shit.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=oaQBrTROj2w
drew feels really strongly about this. so strongly he feels like getting drugged up and ranting on an internet forum.
lay it on me, i deserve it
i have something to confess, i hope you guys will go easy on me since im admitting this...
90% of mosque and Islamic centers in the world are controlled by 2% of Muslims that same 2% are the radical Muslims who support terrorism when was the last time you went into your local mosque
i have something to confess, i hope you guys will go easy on me since im admitting this...i didnt know that this was just a guy that owned private land wanting to develop across the street or something, i was under the impression that this was a plan set forth by the comittee that's responsible for rebuilding something on the foundation of the WTC, if this is just some guy wanting to make a mosque in the general area then i dont care, at all, the area isnt hallowed ground, witht he exception of the actual foundation plot...so, yeah, im an ignorant reactionary idiot and blah blah, lay it on me, i deserve it
I really hate how older Jews' response to the building seems to be the equivalent of:That sounds like older anybody I encounter. My wife's cousin is a cool motherfucker. But the dude is insane when it comes to politics. He is always super far right and talks about how doctors now can't stay in business because of ObamaCare. I tell him he listens to too much Glenn Beck and Fox News. And everytime I call him out on something like his "Eating healthy is cheaper than eating bad! How are all these poor people so fat??" shit, he always just responds with "I'm just sayin... why we gotta help poor people??"
"I know what yous sayin', but I'm just sayin'."
I really hate how older Jews' response to the building seems to be the equivalent of:
"I know what yous sayin', but I'm just sayin'."
"I'm just saying" and "I don't know about that" have become valuable tools in the new political discourse.It's true. Because it tells me exactly who I shouldn't bother discussing politics with. I always end it with "do some research and get back to me"
this just in, beavers and eagles embracing, shedding single tears ::)
this just in: drew thread backfire, incapable of responding except in weak one-liners that don't support his position in any way. ::)
someone with a collage degree
"I'm just saying, if that mosque gets attacked or bombed it won't be surprising. Just saying"this lady at work said that pretty much verbatim and I responded with "no no. tell us how you REALLY feel about muslims" i got a lot of nasty looks for that one. Probably because I threw it into a conversation I wasn't a part of. But hey! if you're going to be eating lunch at the table near my cubicle, try not to say stupid shit.
god fucking dammit
"I'm just saying, if that mosque gets attacked or bombed it won't be surprising. Just saying"this lady at work said that pretty much verbatim and I responded with "no no. tell us how you REALLY feel about muslims" i got a lot of nasty looks for that one. Probably because I threw it into a conversation I wasn't a part of. But hey! if you're going to be eating lunch at the table near my cubicle, try not to say stupid shit.
god fucking dammit
Drew's arguments are much like his legs, they are feeble, nonsupporting, and sooner or later someone with a collage degree will dispose of them.
why is this even news if its just some empty first story property in the neighborhood?
WHY
why is this even news if its just some empty first story property in the neighborhood?
WHY
Because.....conservative leaders knew they could whip people like you who they could count on not to fact check (and others worse than you who simply have latent bigotry bubbling beneath the surface) into a frenzy of hysteria?
Gosh you guys, I'm just tired of both sides using this like a political football.spoiler (click to show/hide)Actaully, the Dems do have some Muslim-baiting in their recent past with that Dubai port deal a few years back. But it's funny to see people (mostly conservatives who realize how terrible their own side is here) try to spin some sort of equivalence on this issue.[close]
beltway approved answer that will get you laid at a David Broder party
Nah it's not right wingers it's just stupid people with religious overtones or weak ass thinking (drew :'()
I bet quite a few of the left wingers think the same way.
Palin is stupid and religious. Point proven.
Quotebeltway approved answer that will get you laid at a David Broder party
every time PD has just about passed the Turing test, he always goes and gives himself away with something like this. :gloomy
If I was bothered I'd find quotes from Democrats who don't want a mosque there either. But I can't.
Bombings in Madrid, London etc.
terrorism only counts if it happens in America :wag
Yup - can't win on existing big ticket issues? No problem - just invent one you can win on! Shades of the Tory party campaign against the top threat to our country in the early 90s : New Age Travellers :/
Quotebeltway approved answer that will get you laid at a David Broder party
every time PD has just about passed the Turing test, he always goes and gives himself away with something like this. :gloomy
is there a Turing test for blackness?
i'm amazed that the tea party hasn't been gang raped by mosque-building gay messicans yet
13. What if the following religious groups proposed building a community center and place of worship two blocks from your home. Would you favor or oppose it?
Jewish:
Favor: 73%
Oppose: 18%
No answer/Don't know: 9%
Catholic:
Favor: 78%
Oppose: 14%
No answer/Don't know: 9%
Muslim:
Favor: 55%
Oppose: 34%
No answer/Don't know: 10%
Mormon:
Favor: 65%
Oppose: 24%
No answer/Don't know: 11%
Insofar as this conversation is unrealistic, it's because every actual radical Islamist would know perfectly well that an imam who works with the FBI, tours on behalf of the State Department, denounces terrorism, defends the US constitution in an Arabic exchange with radicals from Hizb ut-Tahrir, has a good relationship with New York City rabbis, and preaches on behalf of women's rights isn't on their side. In fact, he is exactly the kind of imam that Islamist radicals target and kill when they dare to do these sorts of things in other countries.
That's better than I thought it would be, really.
It's come full circle now, bitches:
International outrage over plans to build library next to Sarah Palin. (http://www.thedailymash.co.uk/news/international/outrage-over-plans-to-build-library-next-to-sarah-palin-201008193017/)
My personal favorite: "Meanwhile President Obama has caused unease within his own Democratic party by endorsing the library and claiming that not everyone who reads books is responsible for calling Mrs Palin a fuckwit nutjob nightmare of a human being."
And Wayne Hayes, a pig masseur from Coontree, Virginia, said: "I is so angry right now.:rofl
I must say, Jon Stewart has been killing it this week on the issue.
That's better than I thought it would be, really.
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/38779318#38779318 (http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/3036677/vp/38779318#38779318)
I am really trying to understand what the hell Howard Dean is trying to say here. He says he is trying to start a real dialog about the community center but repeatedly brings up the opposition to it being the "right wing of the Republican party"....
Build a real life version of the ghost academy from Starcrat II or the command center with the planetary defense turret on top.
The Daily Show continues owning Fox on this lol
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/08/23/stewart-fox-prince-alwaleed_n_692234.html
Wait, does the ghost academy shoot things in SC2?
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7966533/Campaigners-say-Ground-Zero-mosque-plans-led-to-taxi-driver-murder-attempt.html
i've seen it all now... white boy slashes throat of Muslim taxi driver, yet you have massive right wing gobshites spinning it as "See? this is why we shouldn't have a ground zero mosque... it's raising tensions!"
Idiocracy continues to move from comedy to fact on a daily basis.
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/northamerica/usa/7966533/Campaigners-say-Ground-Zero-mosque-plans-led-to-taxi-driver-murder-attempt.htmlDon't make me angry, you wouldn't like me when I'm angry
i've seen it all now... white boy slashes throat of Muslim taxi driver, yet you have massive right wing gobshites spinning it as "See? this is why we shouldn't have a ground zero mosque... it's raising tensions!"
Idiocracy continues to move from comedy to fact on a daily basis.
When is this one going to be Hall of Famed so we can preserve drew's incredible flip-flopping for eternity?