THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: originalz on January 22, 2011, 03:01:10 AM

Title: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on January 22, 2011, 03:01:10 AM
There seem to be quite a few of us who seem to still prefer these games, so why not make a thread for all discussion?  This thread can be for anything related to shooters!  Whether it be the latest news, accomplishments, obtained games, talking about retro games, events, merchandise, whatever!  Sure, these games may not have the glorious graphics or hold-your-hand gameplay of the current popular titles like CALL OF DUTY or some other mainstream trash, but this is made up by having games that actually require skill!

Anyway, let's start by talking about the latest news!

-Eschatos has a new trailer!

[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TG10TZYYNaM[/youtube]

This game actually looks really good and is exactly a "retro-style" game updated and done right.  It also comes with the old Wonderswan games, which is totally awesome.  It's also confirmed to be region free!  Too bad no one will care about it and and will likely be forgotten by those who keep bitching about how there's no selection and originality outside of Cave games.

-Eschatos is also being released on the same day as Otomedius Excellent!  Fantastic timing, there.  It'll be Shooting Love vs. DOJBLEX all over again!

-Speaking of which, DOJBLEX has now been patched!  Now you n00bz who have bitched and refused to play the title (despite the glitches being so minor that I can guarantee that you'd never have encountered them) can keep sucking at the game, this time without the excuse of blaming the bugs!  Good thing everyone's sworn off 5pb while loving those Cave ports which are full of bugs and poor decisions!

-Bullet Soul is also on the horizon, I played it at TGS and thought it was pretty cool.  I love the Star Solider-style hidden bonuses.

-Trouble Witches is on track for an XBLA release in the near future, although this is being done by SNK and we all know how long it takes for them for their shit to come on LIVE.

-Daifukkatsu Black Label and Pink Sweets/Muchi Muchi Port pack coming up next month.  I'm personally a fan of Pink Sweets so I'm looking forward to it.  I'm still hoping for a port of Ibara Kuro, my personal favorite Cave game.

-Cave also has some event going on next month where they'll announce shit and have some events.  I went to the shooting festa last year and enjoyed myself, so there's a very good chance I'll check this out.  Anyone in Tokyo also interested in joining?  Heh, there's gonna be a job recruitment area too!

2011 looks like it's gonna be a good year for shooting fans!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 22, 2011, 03:48:20 AM
Wow, I was just thinking about making a thread like this. Good work.

I've been playing some Dai Ou Jou Black Label since the patch came out. Game's amazing. I'm no good at it (40 million up to the end of 1-4 with A-E has been my best run) but I'm really enjoying learning everything and progressing inch by inch. I'm even starting to enjoy chaining! This game's like 10x better than Daifukkatsu.

Eschatos is looking good. It seems they really put some effort into the different difficulty modes, and the odd camera angles for some battles should be interesting. Judgment Silversword and Cardinal Sins look good too; never got a chance to play either of them. I probably won't buy it right away (no money), but I'll get it some day for sure.

Bullet Soul looks okay, but I'm not too sure about it yet. I don't like how every enemy cancels their bullets once they're destroyed. I'll wait for impressions and reviews before I decide to blow $80 on it.

I'll be buying Trouble Witches, Strania, and Radiant Silvergun once they're released as well. So many god damn shooters, I love it.

PS. If anyone wants to send me a friend request for leaderboards or whatever, feel free. GT: NHK iconoclast
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 22, 2011, 06:46:29 AM
Playing DOJ BL
> connect my best chain ever on stage 1
> die to the first boss
> connect my best chain ever on stage 2
> die to the second boss
> lose the rest of my lives on stage 3 before I even get to the boss

ffffffffuuuuuuuuu

I hate it when I get my best score on a retardedly awful run where I die non-stop to shit I always avoid.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 22, 2011, 10:35:16 PM
I'm pretty excited for Muchi Pork. I got a feeling that it's going to be my favorite Yagawa game by a mile. I'm not too interested in Pink Sweets though, so if I wind up not liking it, no biggie.

Still not sure if I want Daifukkatsu Black Label either... The more I play DFK 1.5, the less I like it. But the Ketsui arrange mode looks amazing. Decisions decisions...
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: HyperZoneWasAwesome on January 23, 2011, 03:01:05 AM
I am so down for this thread.  I really don't have anything particularly relevant to contribute at this moment though.  I did pick up a PS1 copy of In The Hunt, and its dang cool, but no new news to report on outside of 15 year old shooters.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 23, 2011, 03:25:39 AM
Strike Witches is pretty good imo. It's pretty easy, but the stages are fun, it has some good bullet patterns, like twelve characters to make your team with, and even the scoring is fun. It's not amazing or anything, but it's pretty underrated.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 24, 2011, 02:21:18 AM
5pb is considering making Bullet Soul region free.
http://njiska.com/2011/01/another-possible-region-free-candidate-bullet-soul/

If you are interested, send them an email and let them know.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 24, 2011, 02:48:57 AM
Yeah, there's been a few region free games lately.

Eschatos
Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets
Virtual-On Force
and now maybe Bullet Soul

Pretty cool.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on January 24, 2011, 03:57:29 AM
Strike Witches is trash, it's worse than Omega Five.  How one can like that game and not DFK is beyond me.

I am getting all of these games.
I just can't decide whether to get DFK Black Label as retail or download. I kind of want the arrange stuff, but the difference in price is ridiculous, esp. since there's no CD pack-in or anything.

I dunno if you've played it in the arcades, but DFKBL is almost a completely different game.  New music, new mechanics, new rank system, it's a vastly different experience.  I'm likely going to go for the disc version.  I do like the BL version a bit more than the normal game, it's bloody exhilarating getting into full RED mode and making your way through all the shit on the screen.

You guys also check out the LIVE Indie Games scene?  Quite a few good games in there as well!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 24, 2011, 04:31:36 AM
Strike Witches > Otomedius G > Omega Five

I don't think Strike Witches is better than DFK though. It has more to do with expectations. I went into DFK expecting something as good as DDP and DOJ. It's not. It's not a bad game either, but it's just not satisfying to play for survival and the scoring system somehow manages to be less fun than DDP and DOJ. It's just disappointing... especially when an arrange mode is better than the main game.

I had no expectations for Strike Witches and I was pleasantly surprised to see that it's pretty decent. Same with Otomedius, actually.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on January 24, 2011, 04:48:40 AM
Anyone have Radirgy Massive for the 360?  I'm actually a fan of the Radirgy series and have been meaning to pick the game up, but it came out at such a bad time that I haven't really had time to buy and play it.  I do plan on getting it eventually.

Yeah, it's just that the download version is 1500 yen vs 4500 yen for the disc.
Pretty massive difference...

I love the XBLIG stuff.
I get all the radiangames stuff out of habit now, but there's been some really interesting stuff on there outside of that. Leave Home, Decimation X, Shoot 1UP, and that crazy colourful one I forget the name of now. Any others you can recommend?

I personally liked Unrevolutionary although it's a twinstick shooter.  Prismatic Solid is probably the "colorful" one you're talking about.  Revolver 360 is also pretty good.  I enjoyed Vorpal enough to play through a few times.  I'm friends with the guy who made Tester Phase One, which isn't anything spectacular but is a solid game and worth a buck.  I'm sure there are lots of other ones out there which I can't remember.

Strike Witches > Otomedius G > Omega Five

I don't think Strike Witches is better than DFK though. It has more to do with expectations. I went into DFK expecting something as good as DDP and DOJ. It's not. It's not a bad game either, but it's just not satisfying to play for survival and the scoring system somehow manages to be less fun than DDP and DOJ. It's just disappointing... especially when an arrange mode is better than the main game.

I had no expectations for Strike Witches and I was pleasantly surprised to see that it's pretty decent. Same with Otomedius, actually.

Play DFK with Strong style!  It's the true man's road to playing!  Power style is more or less just an easier mode, unless your goal is the ura 2-ALL.

I definitely think Strike Witches is worse than Otomedius, but I suppose it's a matter of taste.  I've found that most people who dislike Otomedius don't really understand the correct way to play it since arcade and gorgeous modes are meant to be played very differently.

I suppose that Strike Witches isn't a worthless waste like it could have been, but it's still a waste of time to play it when there are much, much better games available.  I suppose that if it had been released as a 2500yen budget title then it would have been a different story, but no way in hell was that thing worth full price.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 24, 2011, 05:22:10 AM
I think you got strong and power mixed up, but yeah. Strong makes the game waaaaay too easy, and power makes the game really hard with its lack of bombs. But what really I don't like about power is that you have to rely on the hyper to cancel patterns you'd have no hope of dodging. And if your hyper rank gets too high... gg. I just don't like it when games focus too much on bullet canceling. Mushi Futari hits a pretty good balance, but anything more than that is too much for me.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on January 24, 2011, 05:26:58 AM
That's understandable, DFK is definitely a different beast.  I like the juggling act that you need to do for Power style, you don't really need bombs since it's so easy to refill your hyper meter.  You can also get some crazy scores if you keep yourself in normal mode while in hyper.

Still, that's why the arranges exist!  All of the arranges play like vastly different games.  I'm personally a big fan of 1.51!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Beezy on January 24, 2011, 08:15:27 AM
Yeah, it's just that the download version is 1500 yen vs 4500 yen for the disc.
Pretty massive difference...

I love the XBLIG stuff.
I get all the radiangames stuff out of habit now, but there's been some really interesting stuff on there outside of that. Leave Home, Decimation X, Shoot 1UP, and that crazy colourful one I forget the name of now. Any others you can recommend?
You're thinking of Score Rush, my favorite so far.

Revolver360 and Vorpal are really good. I like Hypership Out of Control also.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 24, 2011, 08:32:47 AM
Gah, like five times now I've made it the stage 4 mid-boss in DOJ BL, destroyed the two cannons on the side, and lose my last life right when I'm about kill him and get the 1up. And to make matters worse, I would surely get the 50million extend after playing a little further, since I always have 45-48m by that point. So annoying. :maf

And hoooooly shit the training mode in the DOJ BLEX port is completely worthless garbage. I guess I need to load up MAME and create some savestates in order to really practice anything.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: tiesto on January 24, 2011, 09:20:19 AM
Yeah, it's just that the download version is 1500 yen vs 4500 yen for the disc.
Pretty massive difference...

I love the XBLIG stuff.
I get all the radiangames stuff out of habit now, but there's been some really interesting stuff on there outside of that. Leave Home, Decimation X, Shoot 1UP, and that crazy colourful one I forget the name of now. Any others you can recommend?

:bow radiangames :bow2

Loved Shoot 1UP, there's also Vorpal and Score Rush to try. I love playing the indie games, even if it's a bit oversaturated with twinsticks.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Brehvolution on January 24, 2011, 10:06:09 AM
Quote
Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets

Is this some sort of loose translation? If I was asked what kind of game this was judging solely by the name, I'd guess its a cooking game on the DS.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: tiesto on January 24, 2011, 10:50:07 AM
Quote
Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets

Is this some sort of loose translation? If I was asked what kind of game this was judging solely by the name, I'd guess its a cooking game on the DS.

Nope, both Muchi Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets (they are 2 different games, but are packed together for their forthcoming 360 release) are Cave bullet-hell games.

Prismatic Solid is a pretty great game on the Indies, too. Amazing soundtrack that really reminds you of 32bit shmups.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 24, 2011, 11:29:15 AM
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPQIAE4CB8A[/youtube]

GOTY

:bow Muchi Muchi Pork :bow2
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Brehvolution on January 24, 2011, 01:14:19 PM
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=MPQIAE4CB8A[youtube]


(http://i53.tinypic.com/2n092si.jpg)
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 26, 2011, 08:08:09 AM
There's a good post here pimping Crimzon Clover better than I ever could: http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showpost.php?p=25606756&postcount=604

Check it out if you haven't guys. It's really awesome and it's better than Cave's latest stuff.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on January 29, 2011, 01:26:18 AM
So the second DFK patch that rebalances arrange B and I guess fixes some bugs or whatever is out. You can also earn the Hibachi achievement in Novice mode now, and I believe once you get the achievement you unlock a Hibachi gamerpic.

I think I finally found a suitable replacement for my Ninja Gaiden 2 master ninja pic. :drool

Now all I've gotta do is get to the Ura loop......
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Himu on January 29, 2011, 02:17:16 AM
prefer rail shooters over 2d shooters

pretty much the same shit except in a 3d space but i think rail shooters are just 2000 x cooler and more fun to play
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 01, 2011, 03:47:06 PM
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0NCVnX7EjSk&feature=feedf[/youtube]

I want this just for the Ketsui arrange, but I'm gonna pass for now. Don't want to blow $50-$60 on a game just for an arrange mode when I'm saving for a new PC.

lol, watching him kill the midboss without hitting the C-shot for the 5x cube made me cringe. HOW CAN YOU RESIST?

I love the arranged soundtrack too. Fits the DFK aesthetic perfectly. Nice contrast to the heavy Ketsui Extra arrange. Best soundtrack ever in three amazing forms :bow
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 01, 2011, 03:54:17 PM
I'm getting it mainly just as a Cave collector.  Very very little interest in playing it since I got bored of DDFK after like 1-2 weeks and the price is a total ripoff.  But I need to justify my J360's pricetag with Cave shmups.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 05, 2011, 10:45:45 PM
Well, since I'm apparently the only foreigner in the scene here who actually goes to live shooting events, might as well give you guys some EXCLUSIVE kool updates.

Went to Master Takahashi's all-night Caravan festival last night!  I've always been a fan of Caravan shooters and actually prefer them to the scoring styles of newer games, although I'm sure all you n00bz who only play Cave shit could never appreciate the beauty of classic Hudson shooters!  I wasn't really planning on playing so I didn't bother practicing anything, but I decided to enter Soldier Blade for the hell of it, I played the game quite a bit back in the day but it's been a long time!  Did pretty decently, got 3rd place overall which was enough to get a signed book from Hudson's glory days.  Not bad considering that I'm mad out of practice, and it kind of makes me want to get into Caravan shooters again.  Heh, I guess I'll actually make an effort to practice for 2012's event when it comes up!

They had the world record holder for Soldier Blade and Star Soldier R there, that guy knows his shit.  Didn't compete in the tournament but showed off his stuff for exhibition.

Takahashi seemed really concerned about the Konami buyout.

The scene was pretty cool, lots of hardcore shooting fans who have been playing since back in the day, even had returners who used to compete in the Caravans since the 80s.  Nice group of people, was able to chat with them no problem.  Heh, got a good reaction out of everyone when I went up to do my run, I suppose being the only foreigner there will do that.

On a completely unrelated note, Cave is currently hiring someone for their western SOCIAL GAMES DIVISION!  Yeaaa, looks like they know what their fans really want, shitty iPhone and Facebook games!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 07, 2011, 01:03:43 AM
So I bought the DLC version of DDP DFK BL, then the next day got talking to a friend and ended up ordering the disc version from Amazon :(
Fucking curse my loose wallet.

At least you'll get two sets of achievements out of it (+250 on DFK 1.5 disc and 1000 on DFK BL disc) and the Ketsui arrange. I'll probably buy them both some day.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 07, 2011, 06:00:50 PM
I got black label today, but don't really feel like switching the cables to get the ole j360 working.  Might give it a spin tonight.  I'm guessing I won't even notice the difference between 1.5 & Black Label, so I'll just be playing the Ketsui mode.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 07, 2011, 08:40:15 PM
I ended up playing this for a bit.  At first I was like WTF THIS GAME IS SO MUCH HARDER THAN 1.5 until I read the manual after I stopped playing and saw that the big red gauge in the top-right corner isn't A GOOD THING.  I thought you were supposed to fill it and then you got hyper mode because whenever it was full I tended to have hyper mode.  I also noticed that my ship was WAY STRONGER than 1.5 but the enemy bullets were just ridiculously fast and even the first two stages were ridiculous.

Then I read the manual and saw that filling up that gauge makes the game rank go up and makes everything harder!  And when the gauge is max your hyper meter builds super fast which explains why I always got hyper mode releases when it was maxed.  And that holding RT + A does shot+laser (instead of just laser like 1.5) which builds your rank gauge and does TON O' DAMAGE which explains why bosses were dying so fast and my meter was always building, lol. 

I think I get it now.

I like that if you play the power style you always get the Ura route bosses without having to do anything. 

Ketsui mode is ok.  I kind of wish the scoring was entirely ketsui and not DDFK BL scoring/gameplay + ketsui scoring on top of it.  It just feels thrown on instead of an arrange mode that's totally different like the arranges on the normal games.  It's basically everything that is in black label + you shoot enemies up close to start a chain and then hold laser until the chain ends x repeat.  Ketsui is a wonderful game because THAT'S ALL THERE IS TO IT.  Here when you have that plus a dozen other DDFK BL things to deal with at the same time it just feels like overload.  Then again maybe it was because I didn't know about the red system at the time and I was playing it at max rank all the time.

The arrange mode music is pretty good but it doesn't really fit at all.  Ketsui music is ok.  Game is still lots of flashing colors.
Seems fun, but DDFK is still probably my least favorite of the cave shmups on X360 so far.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 08, 2011, 12:57:42 AM
To be fair, the scoring in Ketsui is more complicated than it lets on (http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?t=5123), but yeah the arrange seems like it would've been more fun without having worry about your chain and rank as well. I'll probably pick up DFKBL some time over the next few months.


I've been playing some more DOJ Black Label over the last couple days, and I'm finally making some progress! The run I had just now started out really poorly, but it was my last credit, so I figured I'll just ride it out instead of ragequitting and restarting. Everything started falling apart on stage 2... I died once in the popcorn hallway right after activating my 4 hypers, and then I died again on the boss. Went into stage 3 with only 12 million points and 1 life left, but by some miracle I didn't die again until the stage 4 mid-boss. At least I got the 1up from him, so it wasn't too big a deal. Then I no miss'd the rest of the stage, and made it to stage 5 for the first time. I almost made it to the final boss, but alas, that stage is hard as fuck. I think I would've made it to him if got the 50 million extend, but I only had 47 million points since stages 1 and 2 went poorly. Oh well, gotta keep practicing.

I really want to 1-ALL DOJ BL and Ketsui this year. Both are 10/10 godlike games, if you ask me.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 08, 2011, 01:09:44 AM
rumor has it that Muchi Muchi Pink Sweets will be region free, can anyone substantiate this?
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 08, 2011, 01:17:50 AM
Yes, Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets will be region free. Although, IMO, if you want a region free shooter, I'd get Mushihime-sama Futari first. The platinum hits version is only $35 and it's one of the best shooters ever made, and it's in HD.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 08, 2011, 01:27:30 AM
I've been playing some more DOJ Black Label over the last couple days, and I'm finally making some progress! The run I had just now started out really poorly, but it was my last credit, so I figured I'll just ride it out instead of ragequitting and restarting. Everything started falling apart on stage 2... I died once in the popcorn hallway right after activating my 4 hypers, and then I died again on the boss. Went into stage 3 with only 12 million points and 1 life left, but by some miracle I didn't die again until the stage 4 mid-boss. At least I got the 1up from him, so it wasn't too big a deal. Then I no miss'd the rest of the stage, and made it to stage 5 for the first time. I almost made it to the final boss, but alas, that stage is hard as fuck. I think I would've made it to him if got the 50 million extend, but I only had 47 million points since stages 1 and 2 went poorly. Oh well, gotta keep practicing.

I really want to 1-ALL DOJ BL and Ketsui this year. Both are 10/10 godlike games, if you ask me.

What's the difference between DOJ and DOJ BL?

DOJ is still my favorite Cave shmup.  I played the heck out of it on PS2.  DOJ, Espgaluda, Mushi Futari are probably my 3 favorite cave shmups with Ketsui right behind.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 08, 2011, 02:05:05 AM
DOJ BL is easier, basically. Chaining is slightly easier, the hyper meter charges a lot faster, some bullet patterns are slightly different, you can choose a single loop game instead of two loops (which means you fight Hibachi at the end of the first loop), and if you can actually make it to the second loop, you get to keep all of your lives.

It's great update to DOJ. It's been emulated recently, so you can try it out in MAME if you want.

My Cave top 5 is pretty similar as well. I'd rank them like:
1. Ketsui
2. Mushihime-sama Futari Black Label
3. Dodonpachi Dai Ou Jou Black Label
4. Death Smiles
5. Espgaluda

I could swap out Espgaluda with Dodonpachi or Death Smiles 2, but my top 4 are locked. Amazing games :bow
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 08, 2011, 02:16:33 AM
Yes, Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets will be region free. Although, IMO, if you want a region free shooter, I'd get Mushihime-sama Futari first. The platinum hits version is only $35 and it's one of the best shooters ever made, and it's in HD.

cool, I'll check it out.

I've always wanted to dabble in shmups, I just love the graphics and excitement of these games. Thinking about getting Guwange on XBLA too.

I've been playing Detana! Twinbee on the Game Room and it's pretty awesome
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 14, 2011, 01:07:51 PM
New Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets PV, showing the arrange modes and some of the arranged music I guess:
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEYp1R9HeZc&feature=feedu[/youtube]

Looks good. Only 10 more days until dat Porku is out :hyper
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Himu on February 14, 2011, 01:11:42 PM
lack of rail shooters in this thread
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Don Flamenco on February 14, 2011, 01:50:17 PM
Yeaaa, looks like they know what their fans really want, shitty iPhone and Facebook games!

whoa whoa whoa, their iphone games are anything but shitty.  Easily the best games on the phone and I'd put them up there against most of the PSP/DS game libraries too (which don't even have bullet hell shmups except stripped down Ketsui DS.)   plus, i like spending $8 instead of $80 on a game.  Sold off my copy of ESPGaluda 2 360 pretty soon after getting it because I still played it a lot more on my phone.  I'd probably do the same with Mushihime Futari if that ever made it to the iphone. 

then again, I'm not hardcore into 1CCing and memorizing patterns.  I like the quick thrill of dodging huge bullet patterns--so i'm pretty good at the first two stages of the games, then coast on continues through the last stages.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 14, 2011, 02:58:19 PM
lack of rail shooters in this thread

I'm not really familiar with rail shooters, what are some good ones? IIRC the only ones I've played are Panzer Dragoon, Sin & Punishment 2, and Rez.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Don Flamenco on February 14, 2011, 03:00:16 PM
Dead Space Extraction, Time Crisis Raizing Storm, The Shoot (lol)

looks like there are some for Kinect too, maybe?
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 14, 2011, 03:01:57 PM
Aren't those lightgun games? Are they the same thing? Lightgun games are awesome, especially House of the Dead 2 :bow
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Don Flamenco on February 14, 2011, 03:39:24 PM
yeah, I guess lightgun rail shooters and PDZ/Killer 7 style get lumped in together. 

Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 14, 2011, 07:22:24 PM
lack of rail shooters in this thread

thats because this is a shmup thread
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 14, 2011, 07:27:45 PM
New Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets PV, showing the arrange modes and some of the arranged music I guess:
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TEYp1R9HeZc&feature=feedu[/youtube]

Looks good. Only 10 more days until dat Porku is out :hyper

shit that looks good. I'm gonna get it I think, plus Mushihime-sama Futari. I'll see if my old man can buy them for me for 'research purposes'
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: naff on February 14, 2011, 07:39:13 PM
lack of rail shooters in this thread

thats because this is a shmup thread


orlly ???

Quote
Topic: Shooting games thread  (Read 485 times)
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Himu on February 14, 2011, 07:42:28 PM
yeah, I guess lightgun rail shooters and PDZ/Killer 7 style get lumped in together. 



only by wiitards
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Himu on February 14, 2011, 07:46:34 PM
lack of rail shooters in this thread

I'm not really familiar with rail shooters, what are some good ones? IIRC the only ones I've played are Panzer Dragoon, Sin & Punishment 2, and Rez.

Get Afterburner Climax for xbla/psn. Space Harrier is a good one and it's on wii store.

If you're looking for something older, Omega Boost, IS: Internal Section, and Tempest 2000 for playstation are all great.

Star Fox 64 is fantastic as well.

lack of rail shooters in this thread

thats because this is a shmup thread


???

rail shooters in many ways, ARE shmups. Except they use a third person perspective.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 14, 2011, 07:55:37 PM
Oh yeah, After Burner is awesome; I already bought Climax when it came out. Tempest is pretty good too, though I haven't played it since the Saturn version. Space Giraffe would have been a great spiritual sequel if it had graphics.

I'll check out Omega Boost and Internal Section some time.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 14, 2011, 09:32:32 PM
lack of rail shooters in this thread

thats because this is a shmup thread


orlly ???

Quote
Topic: Shooting games thread  (Read 485 times)

 :miyamoto
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 14, 2011, 09:33:20 PM
Oh yeah, After Burner is awesome; I already bought Climax when it came out. Tempest is pretty good too, though I haven't played it since the Saturn version. Space Giraffe would have been a great spiritual sequel if it had graphics.

I'll check out Omega Boost and Internal Section some time.

Eiffell 65 talk about Omega Boost in their amazing song: "My Console"
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: tiesto on February 14, 2011, 11:26:17 PM
Oh yeah, After Burner is awesome; I already bought Climax when it came out. Tempest is pretty good too, though I haven't played it since the Saturn version. Space Giraffe would have been a great spiritual sequel if it had graphics.

I'll check out Omega Boost and Internal Section some time.

Eiffell 65 talk about Omega Boost in their amazing song: "My Console"

Internal Section is fucking awesome, it was thanks to DCharlie I learned about that sweet game. It's like Tempest crossed with Rez, very nice soundtrack too.

And I'll be honest, I first heard of Omega Boost from the Eiffel 65 song  :P
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 16, 2011, 10:23:20 PM
God damn it. The regular edition of Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets is sold out at NCSX and AmiAmi, and I don't trust Play-Asia enough for them to send me one from the first batch that comes with the pre-order bonus. That's what I get for being a lazyass when it comes to pre-ordering.

So I just said fuck it and ordered my first ever Cave limited edition. Yay?
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 18, 2011, 03:06:51 AM
shit the LE is big bucks, no?

I just pre-ordered the regular version from Puray Asia. Mushihime-sama Futari was on back order  :'(
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 18, 2011, 04:12:10 AM
What's with this rail-shooter shit?  It's called the shooting games thread because that's what these games are called (I hate the term shmup), technically games like Halo and Gears are shooters too but I'd just make fun of your casual football-lovin n00bness if you started posting about those here.  I don't really care if people talk about rail shooters here as long as they don't start to dominate the discussion.

Anyway, CAVE's festival is tomorrow!  Which one of you J-Bore peepz is actually going to take advantage of living in Tokyo and go to get the latest news several seconds before everyone else and be able to play games a whole several days before retail release?  I know I'll be there!  Besides, it gives me reason to go to that awesome import store in Akihabara to stock up on Butterfinger candies and barbecue sauce!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 18, 2011, 05:12:17 AM
shit the LE is big bucks, no?

I just pre-ordered the regular version from Puray Asia. Mushihime-sama Futari was on back order  :'(

Yeah, Cave LE's are usually really expensive and are almost never worth the additional cost, but whatever. At least the arranged music that comes on the bonus CDs seems pretty good.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 18, 2011, 10:37:27 PM
The Cave event should be starting any minute. There's a live stream here: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/cave2011

I suspect they will formally announce their ADV game and Dangun Feveron XBLA. Hopefully they have some other surprises in store.

edit: well the event has already started, so I guess the stream ain't working. Good job Cave. There's a liveblog here instead: http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/02/19/cave_live_blog/

12:42 -- Yep, it's Death Smiles for iPhone, coming Spring 2011.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 18, 2011, 10:51:39 PM
blah blah iOS and social game crap. I hope they get to the good stuff soon.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 18, 2011, 11:10:03 PM
13:09 -- Asada takes the stage!

13:08 -- I can't believe I can actually recognize Asada by the top of his head.

13:07 -- I think the shooter part is coming up WOOT!

13:07 -- I see Makoto Asada's head behind the barrier next to the stage.

:omg

13:12 -- Actually, it's pronounced Nin Nin Jump.

13:11 -- Nin2-Jump, coming to Xbox Live Arcade in 2011.

13:11 -- It's a ninja action game!

13:11 -- He shares a trailer for the first game.

13:10 -- He will detail three titles, all new.

:omg :omg :omg :omg

13:18 -- Next, one more game!

13:17 -- The first run bonus version will be a serial code for downloading add-on voices, which are newly recorded.

13:17 -- We'll be able to sample the game today and some of the new systems.

13:17 -- There will be new game systems and new stages.

13:16 -- All visuals in the game are being made into high res.

13:15 -- Game will have both standard and limited editions

13:15 -- Platform is Xbox 360.

13:15 -- Coming 5/26 as package release.

13:15 -- New stages.

13:14 -- It will have 16x9 visual support, new game systems...

13:14 -- The arcade shooter Akai Katana is coming home!

13:14 -- Akai Katana Shin!

13:13 -- Next, the second title.

OMG OMG OMG OMG OMG
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 18, 2011, 11:19:15 PM
Nice on Akai Katana.  Would be sick if it was region free, but probably not.

Will be very interesting to see what Cave does after its out since they are basically out of games to port and make cash.  I wonder if they'll start re-selling the old PS2 or earlier games on XBLA with achievements and new arrange modes.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 18, 2011, 11:28:32 PM
They also announced "Instant Brain", their ADV game. I guess you use a camera to progress through the story or something. And that's that. No Dangun, which is kinda surprising. Maybe they just canceled it.

I am excited for Akai Katana though. VERY surprised to see it's only three months away too - I thought they would wait until the end of the year before they put it on console. But yeah, the 360 is basically the Cavebox now. It has almost their entire library. I can see them doing an Ibara + Ibara Kuro double pack and porting the rest of their old games to XBLA or something, but they're almost all out of games.

Time to start cranking out more arcade games. Gimme Ketsui 2.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 19, 2011, 02:26:05 AM
All right I came back.  I told all you fools that Cave only cares about casual social game shit now!

Akai Katana Shin is bloody beautiful, the rank system seems to be a little different from the AC version, but I haven't played the consumer PCB release so I dunno if any changes were a result of that.  Worth keeping your eye on.  I'm pissed at the lack of Ibara Kuro.

Deathsmiles iOS was nearly impossible to play since my hands kept covering shit up.  It's not so bad on verts, but in a game like DS where there are enemies and shit coming from all directions, it's really hard to keep track of everything.  I also needed to switch my hand placement whenever I moved to the other side of the screen.  Oh well, I'm sure you CASUAL shooting fans will love playing it on your iPhone and talk about how it's so much better than paying full retail price for a game.

Shin Megami Tensei Imagine sucks.  I had to play it in order to quality for the goods bag at the end.

Inside the bag was a bunch of social network shit, and an Akai Katana toothbrush and metal cup.  Also got some promotional fliers and stickers, yay.

Overall a decent event but it's obvious that shooting games are no longer Cave's core market.  Hell, they didn't even have demo units of MMP/PS set up.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 19, 2011, 02:39:22 AM
Hasn't their arcade division always been a relatively small part of their business though? Well maybe not "always", but for a long time now.

Anyway, here's the Akai Katana Shin PV:

[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JRrVTR0GbgM&feature=feedf[/youtube]

SO GOD DAMN HOT. I always thought this game looked fun as fuck, even after all the naysaying. The aesthetics are excellent too - great graphics, art, theme, and music. I can't wait to finally play it.

And there are some screens here: http://www.andriasang.com/e/galleries/2011/02/19/akai_katana_shin_screens/

They completely redid the graphics for HD, including the backgrounds. :o
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 22, 2011, 09:45:20 PM
bought Guwange while waiting for Muchi Muchi Pork and Pink Sweets to arrive. Awesome game, but I'm still trying to figure out how to play it exactly  :lol

did you 200 Guwange iconoclast? Do-able? No-miss on the final boss is gonna be a nightmare
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 22, 2011, 10:10:31 PM
No, I only got 150. The last achievement's description is inaccurate too - you have to no miss AND no bomb the final boss. I can come close to doing it, and I have done it several times while practicing with a savestate, but I always wind up blowing it in a normal run. And since you have to play the whole game from beginning to end every time you attempt it, it's a real bitch of an achievement.

Fun game though. 360 mode is awesome, even though it's piss easy. God-tier aesthetics too.

Might want to check out this guide to Guwange, written by a top player: http://www.siliconera.com/2010/11/17/cave-blog-a-guide-to-guwange-part-1/

Guwange is really hard though, and it's scoring system is incredibly harsh. Not a very beginner friendly game, but it is still fun.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 23, 2011, 10:13:03 AM
Death Smiles ver 1.1 is really fun. Both vanilla 1.1 and MBL 1.1 are two of my favorite Arrange modes ever. They just crank the difficulty, throw millions of suicide bullets at you, and let you control your option with the stick so you can absorb them, all the while the game runs at 30% speed. Amazing.

I used to think the Death Smiles Virtuoso achievement (clear all stages at rank 3, including EX, no continues) would be nearly impossible, but actually I'm starting to think I can do it on a good run. Main problems for me right now are the dual dragons in the canyon and Jitterbug. Dragons are basically guaranteed to kill me at least once because of that insane rock pattern, and Jitterbug's final pattern is pretty ridiculous as well. But I think with some practice I can do it. I'm gonna try to get the 200 mil achievement as well, but 300 mil is out of my league.

Game's amazing though. :bow Death Smiles, the only good horizontal shooter :bow2


PS. The menu in Muchi Muchi Pork & Pink Sweets is awesome
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_embedded&v=FfHhhJRMNHE[/youtube]

Hopefully NCSX ships my copy today.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Cravis on February 23, 2011, 04:46:47 PM
Picked up Project Sylpheed for the 360 but haven't got a chance to play it. I loved Silpheed on the Sega CD and PS2. I know this one is just a spiritual successor with gameplay more like Omega Boost.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 23, 2011, 09:10:01 PM
Play Asia shipped my copy of MMP & PS last night, should get it within a week

In the meantime I'm trying to get good at Guwange. 360 Arrange Mode is fun but seems like it's just there to boost the achievements. I like the regular Arcade Mode a lot more, it's hard as fuck though! Haven't tried Arrange Blue mode yet, whats the difference in that mode?
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 23, 2011, 09:16:44 PM
NCSX shipped my copy as well. Hopefully I'll get it tomorrow since I live like right next to them. I think I'll upload the arrange soundtrack to youtube once I get it too. Btw, beware of Pink Sweets. It is supposedly one of Cave's hardest games. Dat rank makes everyone its bitch.


In the meantime I'm trying to get good at Guwange. 360 Arrange Mode is fun but seems like it's just there to boost the achievements. I like the regular Arcade Mode a lot more, it's hard as fuck though! Haven't tried Arrange Blue mode yet, whats the difference in that mode?

The differences are fairly subtle, but I can't remember them off the top of my head. IIRC, chaining is easier and flashing pink+blue bullets disappear when you kill an enemy with your shikigami. I'm not 100% sure though, it's been a while since I played it.

And Project Sylpheed is awesome! One of the most underrated games this gen, and much more fun than Ace Combat 6. More people should play it. (it's not really a shooter though)
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 23, 2011, 09:38:40 PM
awesome, can you up the arrange soundtrack to rapidshare or the like and link it here please? I'd love to get my hands on that music
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 24, 2011, 03:20:59 PM
Got MMP/PS today :D

Only played one credit on both games so far, but I already like both of them more than Ibara (to be fair, I've only played the bad PS2 version). Think I'm gonna play a little more before I go to bed.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 24, 2011, 09:37:02 PM
pls up Pink Sweets Arrange BGM plzzzzzz  :-*
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 25, 2011, 05:56:36 AM
Muchi Muchi Pork is fucking incredible. One of the top 5 Cave games without question. I was kinda 'eh' toward it yesterday, but that's because I completely misunderstood the scoring system. It's nowhere near as punishing as I thought it was, and it's actually kinda like Raiden Fighters, except you absorb all of the medals instantly when you let go of shot. So the scoring system is super fun; it's right up there with Ketsui, Death Smiles, and Futari as one of my favorites.

Of course, the bullet patterns and level design are fantastic as well. I love the goofy aesthetic too. Damn I love this game already.

Pink Sweets is fun too. I still haven't been able to make it to stage 4 on it though. Game's hard.

edit: Seriously, Muchi Pork is GODLIKE. Best Yagawa game ever, hands down. New Cave ranking:

1. Ketsui
2. Muchi Muchi Pork
3. DOJ Black Label
4. Death Smiles
5. Mushihime-sama Futari Black Label

pls up Pink Sweets Arrange BGM plzzzzzz  :-*

I was uploading the soundtrack to youtube, but there was some distortion in the songs so I took them down. Gotta figure out what I'm doing wrong first. :(
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 25, 2011, 09:05:09 PM
Pink Sweets seems to be a pretty solid port.  Been able to replicate my runs well enough, although I always do worse on home consoles than the arcade for some reason.  Maybe it's because I've played the game so much and understand the "proper" way to play it, but I really don't know why people bitch about the difficulty so much.  As long as you know which bullets can be absorbed, you can get out of almost any situation.  The main problem is if you die at the wrong spot, your game is more or less over since some parts are very difficult to get through without powerups.

Really, you just can't play PS like your typical shooter.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 25, 2011, 10:27:49 PM
I've only played version 1.01 of Pink Sweets (since that's what the game defaults to, and they don't separate the leaderboards by version...), but it's still pretty hard. None of the first 4 stages are super difficult or anything, but for whatever reason I'm having a hard time making progress in it. It took me quite a few credits to make it to stage 4, and that's only halfway through the first loop! I guess most other people are having trouble with it too, since my [presumably crappy] 3.1 million score got me pretty high on the leaderboards...
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 25, 2011, 10:49:25 PM
I haven't really bothered with 1.01 yet so I can't really comment on it, but PS really isn't that tough once you get into the groove.  Be aware that you should constantly be setting up bomb attacks and just using your rosehips for suppression fire.  For most boss fights, trying to attack them normally is a mistake, you should just absorb their attacks, bomb, and immediately start charging for the next one.

Each character also plays very differently, so you should pick a character that fits with your playstyle.  I'm personally a fan of Lace.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 26, 2011, 12:20:11 AM
Quote from: EOJ
Just 1CC'd MMP Arcade with Ikuo (ver 1.00) with a crappy score of 116mil due to all the fucked up slowdown. Right now I'm the only "ALL" on the entire scoreboards, and the only guy in the top 20 playing Ver 1.00 instead of ver 1.01.

There is a huge programming error in the second half of stage 5 - after the section with the groups of planes that loop down then around the top of the screen and down again (right before the last 1/4 of the level), there should be a few waves of suicide planes. These planes never appear in the port. I've tried it a few times and it's always the same - just a few seconds of complete emptiness on screen. A few guys on 2Ch have similarly commented on this. This costs me a few million points. I hope they will patch this somehow.

As it stands, this is one of the worst Cave ports ever made. It's like PS2 Ibara or Mushihimesama all over again.
http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=985.msg24040#msg24040

lulz. Can't say I'm surprised that these ports are messed up - everything just feels lazy, rushed, and thrown together with no real effort put in. But oh well, the games are still super fun. Hopefully Cave issues a patch or two and fixes the issues, but I'm not counting on it. Time to gather the pitchforks.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 26, 2011, 12:39:13 AM
Wait, the ports are bad??

I just got my copy today and haven't popped it in.  Every other ports by Cave on X360 has been great, why did they fuck these up? :(
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 26, 2011, 12:56:11 AM
Most of Cave's ports have been messed up in one way or another, so this isn't really that much of a surprise.  Some problems get patched out, some don't.  I don't really play much MMP in the arcades so I won't notice any problems, and EOJ is an asshole anyway so whatever.  It's a bizarre error though, wonder how that happened.  Haven't seen any problems with PS so far but I'm not the kind of person that memorizes the game so it's possible that there's something that I haven't noticed.

The integrated leaderboards is a huge mistake though and I can't imagine that not being fixed.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 26, 2011, 12:58:18 AM
Well, having not played either PCB, I would not say the ports are bad (certainly not as bad as Ibara). They play well and they're both awesome games, but I guess the problem is there are a lot of differences from the PCB and some inaccurate slowdown in MMP. Cave is just really hit and miss with their ports imo - sometimes they just half-ass things (MMP&PS, Death Smiles 2) and other times they really put a lot of effort in (Daifukkatsu).

Honestly, Cave should just farm out all of their ports to M2, 5pb, or Arika. Though Arika doesn't want to work on 360/PS3 ports because they lack 240p.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 26, 2011, 01:37:32 AM
God damn, the rank really catches up to you fast in MMP. Once the bar is 75% full, stages 3 and 4 become hard as hell. God damn you Yagawa

also, I wish the yellow girl wasn't so strong. I don't want to play a pig-loli, but she's so good it's hard to resist.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 26, 2011, 02:01:30 AM
Ok, I played all 4 modes once each.

Much-muchi Pork - WTF IS THIS GAME loooooooooool.  The music is like GALGAME dating high school music, your bombs make ROBO SAMURAI GIRLS appear with anime cut-ins and when you blow stuff up they turn into parachuting pigs :rofl

Seems fun.  Your short range beam is kind of weird

Pink Sweets - weeeeeird mechanics.  At first it seems ridiculously easy because your shield eats the bullets, but then after a stage or two it gets crazy and you're blowing up.  Music is pretty awesome here too.


Both seem like they'll be fun and both seem better than Daifukkatsu (man, why did I buy that twice :( )
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 26, 2011, 02:45:59 AM
Yeah, I love the wackiness of MMP. The short laser is the lard attack or something, it's used for building up your medals. Be sure to learn how to scoring system works too, it's one of my favorite of all time.

I'm gonna try to break 50 million tonight and get to stage 5. :D


HOLY SHIT the second half of stage 4 is INSANE with max rank. No way I'm getting to stage 5 tonight. At least I managed to make it to the stage 4 boss for the first time, and got a 57m score too. Only 3 million from the achievements :'(
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 26, 2011, 06:57:50 AM
Quote from: EOJ
For you achievement lovers, note that in this port you can change the number of lives, the difficulty, and the extend settings to anything you like and still unlock all of the achievements.

 :) /  :( . I don't like this. I like having hard achievements to aim for. But on the other hand, this will probably be my first Cave completion, so hey I'll take it.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 26, 2011, 01:05:00 PM
Nah, you can just mess with the settings to get achievements easily. In most other games, achievements are disabled when you change the settings, so I guess it's worth mentioning. To upload scores and replays to the leaderboards, you have to play score attack, and that is always on default settings.


Also, I just realized that MMP starts getting super hard because I'm not suiciding. Almost forgot I was playing a Yagawa game. :duh
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 26, 2011, 08:08:35 PM
Huh, haven't you always been able to get achievements by changing the settings?  Obviously it won't work for leaderboards (which he doesn't mention), but back when I was playing around with Deathsmiles lvl 999 I messed around with the settings and was still able to get some achievements.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 27, 2011, 01:18:07 AM
It depends on the achievement, but for the most part they get disabled when you mess with the settings. There are a few exceptions though. In Mushi Futari, you can change the extends to every 80 mil and still unlock the achievement for defeating the TLB in Ultra mode. Or in Ketsui, you can play on Easy (which is barely any different...) when trying to get the achievements for 1-ALL'ing the game with both ships.

I think you can also mess with the settings in Death Smiles 2 and still get most of the achievements (which is why that's another easy 1000). It works for the Bloody Jitterbug one anyway.


And speaking of achievements, the list for Trouble Witches is out: http://www.xbox360achievements.org/game/trouble-witches-neo/achievements/

Hopefully that means it's coming out soon.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 27, 2011, 07:38:43 AM
Really though, I can't imagine messing with the settings being such a huge deal.  If you can 2-ALL a game with 5 lives, you can probably do it with 3.

SNK is horrible with keeping release dates with their XBLA shit, I'll be bloody amazed if we see it before the summer.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 27, 2011, 07:44:35 AM
I don't think it's SNK's fault really. I'm 100% positive Microsoft is sitting on quite a few finished games that are just waiting for a release slot. Like for example, Clash of Heroes HD has been finished since last year, and it's still nowhere in sight. Trouble Witches is probably in the same boat.

Really though, I can't imagine messing with the settings being such a huge deal.  If you can 2-ALL a game with 5 lives, you can probably do it with 3.

The major thing you can change is how often you get extends. I just played MMP with extends set to every 5 mil and got the achievement for dying 12 times in one run. And in DS2, I think you can change how much damage enemy bullets do to you. So you can just set it to 0 and clear the game with max health. :lol


Anyway, MMP is quickly becoming one of my favorite shooters ever. What an amazing game. I wish it had gotten the full HD treatment and a lot more effort put into the port.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 28, 2011, 07:03:59 AM
MMP is indeed awesome, played a couple of times tonight. Didn't get a chance to play much though as I'm not feeling too well.

What do you get for redeeming the DLC code?
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 28, 2011, 07:49:01 AM
FYI, you need to redeem the DLC code with a Japanese account. It contains the "Matsuri" version of Muchi Pork, which features bosses from Pink Sweets. After you kill the regular MMP boss at the end of the stage, one from Pink Sweets will roll up right after.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 28, 2011, 03:42:09 PM
Finally making some progress in Muchi Pork! Killed the stage 4 boss and proceeded to make it all the way to the final boss in stage 5. I got annihilated, but whatever, I'll get him eventually. Got a 115m score and #15 on the leaderboard too. Check out my scrubby replay! :D

MMP is pretty close to topping Ketsui as my favorite shooter ever. Fuck I love this game.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on February 28, 2011, 08:27:27 PM
I read the shmups forum strategies for the arcade releases of MMP and PS and watched the top replays and yeah, I still have no idea how the scoring system works for the 4 modes (arcade x 2, arrange x 2).

I understand that in MMP arcade you want to kill things with lard attack to produce medals and somehow you can make the medals bigger and bigger until the max of big gold ones and then you keep getting big gold ones forever? until you die when you kill with lard and then refill lard with standard shot.  I can get to the gold points by stage 2, but the top replay gets to them by midway through stage 1.  I have no idea what he's doing.

Then in MMP arrange uh, somehow you build up a counter and when it's max and you do lard attack there are lots and lots and lots of bullets but your lard thing slows them down so you can dodge them and you get tons of points.  Also in the top replay the guy suicides right away twice in a row.  No idea why.

In PS arcade, you want to never use the rose crack (to keep rank low) and just shoot things with shot while dodging stuff?  How do you adjust your rate of fire?  I thought it was tapping shot but it never changed from #10 for me.  In the replays the guy suicides at random spots.  No idea why.

in PS arrange, you want to use rose crack nonstop to get your bonus meter up to x64 and then use normal shots to kill enemies while the x64 chain is going.  Repeat throughout and then launch your options at certain points for even more points?  If I'm understanding this right, PS arrange actually seems the most straightforward of the scoring systems.


That's all for playing for score.  Now if you want to play for 1CC, what is the best way to play MMP/MMP Arrange/PS/PS Arrange?  I get that PS arcade, you don't use rose crack, don't pick up point stuff, and try to fire your gun as little as possible and suicide at spots?  No idea about the other 3 though.

Also I need to add you guys on XBLA.  Under friend leaderboards I have one guy and I'm not sure which one of you he is.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on February 28, 2011, 09:06:55 PM
In MMP you generate medals with the lard attack, and you suck em in when you fire your standard shot. Once you've sucked in all the medals on the screen, the medal score gets higher. ie. once you've sucked in a batch of 100pt medals the next lot will be 200pts, and so on. I watched iconoclast's replay and you can get up to 10,000 pt medals really fast by quickly alternating between lard and shot to level up the medals quickly.

I'm still not sure what fucks up your chain, though. I think if you let medals fall off the bottom of the screen that will reset your counter? Dying effects it too I think. I dunno I'm still learning the game myself.

It's fun as fuck, thats for sure. Very rewarding to play and very addictive. I've only managed to get a few rounds in so far as I've been busy with illness, school and job interview but I'm gonna buttfuck that porku tonight.

Pink Sweets has awesome music but the game is ass rapingly hard, especially for a blaster nub such as myself. I will get good.  I will trot out my greatest shmup achievement for the trillionth time: I managed to 2cc Ikaruga once so I can be good at these games with practice.

Add me Bebpo - gtag: Sceneman
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on February 28, 2011, 09:09:05 PM
In MMP, you need to quickly alternate normal shot and lard attacks to build your medals quickly. At the start of stage 1, after you kill the first two waves of enemies and power up once (thus enabling the lard attack), try to hit only one or two enemies with the lard attack and get the 100 pt medal from them. After you absorb those medals, the next medals you get will be worth 200 pts. So kill another popcorn enemy with the normal shot, grab the pig to get a tiny amount of power, and use the lard attack on another popcorn enemy and absorb their medals. Then you just quickly repeat that as fast as you can until you get up to the max of 10,000. I usually have my medals maxed by the first mid-boss.

You don't stay at 10,000 forever though. If you let a medal fall off screen, it'll knock their value back down to 1000 pts. But that's not necessarily true - you can let medals drop off screen IF you are in the middle of a lard attack. So if there's a huuuuge wave of enemies coming up, you can just hold the lard down the entire time and let a bunch of medals fall off screen. As long as you survive and absorb the remaining medals, you'll still be at 10,000.

I don't really know anything about Pink Sweets, so I can't help much there. I need to research it a little more before I really dive into it. And I haven't even tried either arrange mode besides the MMP Matsuri version.

Also, take note: the guides on shmups/cave-stg are for the arcade versions of MMP and PS. The 360 port defaults to version 1.01 for both games (the arcade games are version 1.00). The MMP guide still works pretty well since there isn't much difference between the modes, but as far as I know, there are quite a few differences in Pink Sweets. So a lot of the stuff in the guide probably won't apply to it.


Playing MMP solely for survival is a little tricky, I think. If you have 3-5 lives in stock, the rank progresses faster, so you need to suicide when you're doing well to keep things from getting too crazy. Personally, I haven't bothered doing that yet since I constantly die to stupid shit (running into random bullets, crashing into enemies, etc) so I need all the lives I can get.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on February 28, 2011, 11:47:07 PM
If anyone doesn't want their Matsuri DLC card, I'll pay good cash for it.

In PS arcade, you want to never use the rose crack (to keep rank low) and just shoot things with shot while dodging stuff?  How do you adjust your rate of fire?  I thought it was tapping shot but it never changed from #10 for me.  In the replays the guy suicides at random spots.  No idea why.

I disagree with this, I've always played PS with constant absorbing and bombing.  You can play it normally and just go for those multiplying flower medals, but your score will still suck unless you bomb the shit out of everything.  They key is just to know what can and can't be absorbed, and in most situations you want to immediately charge another bomb as soon as you let one off.  Playing the game by only using standard attacks can get you through most situations (although boss battles will be difficult), but your score will suffer and I think it teaches you bad habits since near the end of the game it's very difficult to survive without absorbing and bombing.  The way you bomb will depend on which character you use.  Remember that you can still fire your rosehips while you're charging!

I really don't think rank is that much of a problem with PS, everyone bitches about how difficult the game is, but I find it easier than Ibara and after the game "clicked" with me I found it to be very reasonable.  I can usually make it to at least stage 5 before losing a life unless I get unlucky.  Even if your rank rises really high, it's all countered by the ability to absorb bullets and bomb through tough patterns (which also exponentially increases your score).  Extends are so plentiful in the game on default settings too.  That first life is really important, though!  Losing your rose hips and powerups can be absolutely brutal, and no amount of extra lives will be enough if you die at the wrong point.  The final boss is especially tough because of this, he has several forms and you absolutely need to have a strong ship unless you want the battle to take an hour.

Arrange mode is so easy!  Letting you stack additional rosehips and starting you off with a powerup when you die helps quite a bit!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on March 01, 2011, 12:02:58 AM
I've got a Matsuri code, I doubt I'll ever be bothered to set up a JP account and redeem it.

I can PM it to you when I get home.

Um, how much cash is good cash? Are these things valuable? I was just gonna give it away...
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on March 01, 2011, 12:12:09 AM
They usually go for around $10 on the secondhand market, which is what I would be looking to pay for it (not that I would object if you wanted to give it away for less).  It'd mainly be for a friend who's interested in the game but doesn't want to buy it right now, by the time he gets it I'm sure those first-print copies will be long gone.  I'm sure he'd appreciate it if I could score him an extra code!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on March 01, 2011, 12:14:18 AM
cool, well 10 bucks aint shit

I'll hook you up with the code, becuase we hook each other up on The Bore  :D

This game already has enough gameplay modes to keep me going for ages
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on March 01, 2011, 01:36:06 AM
Ohhh good lookin out.  It probably won't be used for around a month or whatever, so if you decide you want to play the mode I'll make sure it stays unused so you can get it back without any difficulties.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on March 01, 2011, 01:42:02 AM
In that case I'll just hold onto it and you can hit me up later or something
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on March 01, 2011, 03:52:36 AM
Sounds fair!  Def appreciate it!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 03, 2011, 10:47:52 PM
Pink Sweets Arrange mode is SO GOOD

Some of Cave's arrange modes this gen have been great. DFK Arrange A, DFK BL Ketsui arrange (I guess), Pink Sweets Arrange, Death Smiles 2X, Death Smiles 1.1 & MBL 1.1, and DOJ BLEX and Ketsui have good X-modes

:bow console ports
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 04, 2011, 03:04:58 PM
Are the sales out? I wouldn't expect it to sell more than like 7 or 8 thousand, since both games were fairly unpopular in the arcades & it's a pretty bare bones port.

I'm curious how well Akai Katana will do, since that's another game that didn't do very well in the arcades, but Cave is going all out with the port anyway.

Anyway, the differences in MMP Matsuri aren't very subtle. After you kill a normal MMP boss, a boss from Pink Sweets will come up right after him. So you fight all (?) of the bosses from both games in one run. Depends if that interests you, I guess.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 04, 2011, 03:49:56 PM
Damn @ 38. Must have been a nuclear bomb. :(

I don't think any achievements are unlockable in the Matsuri version. Most of the achievements specify where they have to be done (arcade or arrange).
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on March 04, 2011, 03:55:20 PM
I think the problem Cave is facing is just that the X360 audience in Japan is shrinking by the day.  It's one thing to be releasing niche titles on a healthy userbase and another to release them on a totally dead system. 

Hope the social games save them.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 04, 2011, 05:56:14 PM
I think that's the reason why Cave is rushing all of these ports out. They know that no one in Japan has a 360 any more so they're just pumping them out as fast as they can. They really need to get ALL of their games out in the west. Daifukkatsu is probably coming and Akai Katana will most likely come, but that's only a fraction.

Or hell, take damn break from consoles and start making more arcade games.

Anyway, just beat the Pink Sweets arrange (173m with Shasta). Really awesome game, and I can understand where people are coming from when they say Pink Sweets difficulty is comparable to Ultra in Mushihime. If the stages are the same in the arcade version, then the difficulty ramps WAY the fuck up after stage 4. I was having a hard time just surviving in the damn arrange mode lol.

edit: also, I got my 7000th achievement in Muchi Pork. Yay.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 05, 2011, 06:48:05 PM
There's supposed to be a Bullet Soul demo eventually as well. I'm looking forward to trying it out, because right now I'm kinda iffy toward the game. So far, from what I've seen anyway, the game consists entirely of bullet cancelling (every enemy cancels their own bullets when killed) so it's like the only time you have to dodge anything is when you're fighting mid-bosses and bosses. But I'll see for myself I guess.

Eschatos on the other hand looks great, and it comes with Judgment Silversword & Cardinal Sins to boot. :bow Qute
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on March 06, 2011, 06:57:33 PM
Most 360 sales these days are done through online which isn't tracked through Media Create, so you can't really call a game a bomb just through retail sales alone.  I know that Galuda 2 had a signifigant amount of online sales, but who knows with MMP/PS I guess.

I played the Bullet Soul demo at TGS and thought it was enjoyable.  I honestly don't remember that much but I didn't get the impression that it was an easy game, and it seems to be very score-focused like a caravan shooter with lots of hidden bonuses.  Def worth keeping an eye on.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: maxy on March 07, 2011, 05:50:41 AM
Quote
We talk to 2D specialists Cave and Arc System Works about the enduring appeal of hardcore fighting and shooting games.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/mar/04/2d-forever-japanese-game-design (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/mar/04/2d-forever-japanese-game-design)


Quote
There is a popular misconception that 2D games are somehow easier to produce or at least less taxing on modern hardware. This is not the case. When some players moaned that last year's BlazBlue sequel, Continuum Shift, only added four new characters to the roster, they seemed unaware of the intense development detail that goes into each new addition. "Every character goes through a long process of specification and design," says Mori. "Initial sketches, colouring, how the character moves, animates and behaves, and then finally fine tuning and adjustment. Each one takes roughly five months and over 1000 individual drawings to perfect, so you can begin to appreciate the volume of work involved in the 2D style of fighting games." That's also a lot of data to include in a game file, which explains why you won't be seeing any BlazBlue titles on XBLA or PSN without significant alternations – they're too big.

Interestingly, 3D graphics are involved in the BlazBlue process, but only in the development phase. When the initial concept sketches for new characters are produced, the company's artists all have different drawing styles and produce designs of wildly different dimensions. Consequently, 3D rendering software is used to unify the various designs, ensuring they all work to the same scale, and that the physical movements imagined by the art team can actually work in the virtual space. Then it's back to hand drawing all the animations.
Quote
This process, instigated by Mori, has apparently sped up the development cycle considerably. Earlier today, when the Arc duo were visiting Future Publishing, one journalist asked Ishiwatari about the longest time he'd ever spent at the office without going home. "18 months," was he rather astonishing reply, referring to his work on the last Guilty Gears title. When he tells me this story, Mori quietly adds, "There is a public bath around the corner from the office. That helped." Now, most of the staff keep regular hours – apart from Mori. "The Arc building has two floors," he explains. "The ground floor is the office, and the top floor is a big storage room with a large couch. That is now called Mori's bedroom."

 :bow

Quote
But there are great opportunities for expansion. We're now seeing a vast userbase of mature Western gamers clamouring for interesting and unusual titles. As a result, there's a growing number of publishers specialising in bringing 'cult' Japanese titles to European and American audiences. Set up in 2004, Rising Star is a key example. The Luton-based company has brought over the likes of Harvest Moon, Deadly Premonition, Half-Minute Hero  and DeathSmiles, all to critical acclaim and decent sales. "There's a big fan base for Japanese games in Europe, especially for JRPGs," says marketing manager, Yen Hau. "There are a lot of people who appreciate their authenticity, their quirkiness. We've worked with Cave, SNK, Grasshopper Manufacture… DeathSmiles was Cave's first retail release in Europe and it's done really well. That deal came though us asking our community what games they'd like to see over here. We have an open dialogue with our gamers and there was a real enthusiasm for this game. So we approached Cave at the Tokyo Game Show, that was how it started."



Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on March 07, 2011, 07:05:29 AM
Quote
We talk to 2D specialists Cave and Arc System Works about the enduring appeal of hardcore fighting and shooting games.

http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/mar/04/2d-forever-japanese-game-design (http://www.guardian.co.uk/technology/gamesblog/2011/mar/04/2d-forever-japanese-game-design)

Quote
But there are great opportunities for expansion. We're now seeing a vast userbase of mature Western gamers clamouring for interesting and unusual titles. As a result, there's a growing number of publishers specialising in bringing 'cult' Japanese titles to European and American audiences. Set up in 2004, Rising Star is a key example. The Luton-based company has brought over the likes of Harvest Moon, Deadly Premonition, Half-Minute Hero  and DeathSmiles, all to critical acclaim and decent sales. "There's a big fan base for Japanese games in Europe, especially for JRPGs," says marketing manager, Yen Hau. "There are a lot of people who appreciate their authenticity, their quirkiness. We've worked with Cave, SNK, Grasshopper Manufacture… DeathSmiles was Cave's first retail release in Europe and it's done really well. That deal came though us asking our community what games they'd like to see over here. We have an open dialogue with our gamers and there was a real enthusiasm for this game. So we approached Cave at the Tokyo Game Show, that was how it started."


Superior European taste confirmed.  Maybe Europe will get the rest of the Cave games :P
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: tiesto on March 07, 2011, 09:05:14 AM
The DQ series also sells better in Europe too than the US. So not only do most Euro nations have a better government than we do, they also have better game taste.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on March 07, 2011, 02:11:36 PM
Europe sales remind me of US sales a decade ago.  They apparently didn't go into the "we hate all things Japanese" mode that US consumers did.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 07, 2011, 11:22:41 PM
Death Smiles did pretty well in the US too. I think DFK and Akai Katana will get western releases for sure... everything else is up in the air.


Anyway, just came soooooo close to clearing the first loop of MMP. Got to the final phase of the last boss, but I choked of course. I need to practice him and the stage 4 boss. I had 2 spare lives when I got to him too, and even with all my bombs I couldn't take him out. Yagawa sure loves long and hard boss fights...

Maybe if I started playing Rafute I could clear it, but every time I play with her I do horrible. I don't like her lard shot, so I just keep playing Momo. Ah well.


Also, there's an interview here with Makoto Asada (producer at Cave): http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?f=1&t=35789

Very interesting. He's clearly responsible for Cave branching out and trying Nin2 Jump and Instant Brain... I just hope he doesn't get in the way of them making more shooters. Asada giveth and he taketh away.

Seriously, this interview is a goldmine. I was going to copy+paste some quotes here, but damn near every sentence he says is quote worthy. He sounds miserable.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 08, 2011, 06:39:33 PM
Never mind my previous post, Aksys says they were "reasonably satisfied" with DS sales, but are not pursuing any similar games. http://www.aksysgames.com/forums/topic/1111#post-16437
(saw this on cave-stg: http://www.cave-stg.com/?p=1119)


North Americans prove they have shit taste once again...


edit:

Fuck yes! Cleared the first loop of Muchi Muchi Pork with Rafute. :elephant :elephant :elephant

I finally had a run where I didn't make a hundred stupid mistakes. Made it to the final boss with 3 or 4 lives in stock and blew right through him (literally - I used like 8 bombs). Made it through 2-1, but I blew it on 2-2. Died a bunch to shit I wasn't prepared for, although I almost took the second boss down. I also put a 145m replay up if anyone wants to check it out (currently ranked #17). :D
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on March 08, 2011, 09:46:40 PM
 :lol you motherfucker. I'll grab that replay and study it closely. I haven't had a chance to get my teeth into MMP fully yet... I'll be aiming to get a good amount of cheevs and at least get in the top 100 on the Arcade leaderboards.

Wish me luck  :-\
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 08, 2011, 09:57:05 PM
I'm not very good, so I wouldn't try too hard to pick up any of my patterns or something. Although I think watching replays of lower skilled players (compared to the top players) can be beneficial, since it gives you a lower bar to aim for. Like if you download EOJ's replay (he's #2 I think), he does lots of boss milking and shit that seems ridiculous to newer players. People lower on the leaderboard are usually going for a decent score, but they're also just trying to survive since they haven't mastered the game yet.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 13, 2011, 06:07:06 AM
(http://i.imgur.com/1pDJ5.jpg)

So hot. If I had money to blow I would totally order this.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: choco parfait on March 13, 2011, 05:03:54 PM
North Americans prove they have shit taste once again...

Unfortunately it's just proof that the shmup market is still very niche. Sales of DS left a lot to be desired, I'm afraid. Whether that was because of the game, the demographics, or the genre, we don't know.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on March 14, 2011, 12:00:21 AM
Maybe it's for the best and a competent publisher will pick up the slack.  I mean, Aksys did a good job with getting the game out there, but I didn't exactly agree with their whole "hurr we're so edgy check out these LOLIS all over the game isn't it so BIZARRE!  Take a look at our WACKY dialogue, we're such a clever company that localizes CRAZY JAPANESE GAMES!"  Bloody embarrassing.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 14, 2011, 08:50:46 AM
Rising Star seems to have a good relationship with Cave, so there will probably be more shooters for Europe at least.

--

Just had my most demoralizing defeat ever. Was FINALLY going to 1cc Mushi Futari Original with Reco, but on the last 5-10% of Larsa's health, I lost my last life. And the worst part is, I still had a bomb in stock so it would have been over if I used it. But I thought, nah, I can dodge her final patterns easily. No need to use it. And I was wrong. :(

Ah well, I'll kill that fat bitch soon. I just want to clear Original with Reco so I never have to play it again. I really don't like playing stages 1 and 2 any more, they are way too easy so it's just tedious to play through them.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 14, 2011, 02:47:34 PM
(http://tiles.xbox.com/tiles/Ey/LC/0oCLiGJhbC83FQQcXSJRGEQ3L2FjaC8wL0MAAAAA5+fn-e0iCA==.jpg)

YES. Killed that bitch and FINALLY managed to 1cc Original mode with Reco. Had a really good run where I no miss'd all the way to stage 5 and even managed to get pretty far in. I had my first death in the area leading up to Larsa, and then I died again almost immediately, which pissed me off since I had full bombs. But the Larsa fight went surprisingly well; I finished her off with 3 bombs and 1 life left, so I got a decent chunk of points for my clear bonus. Ended up with 232m points and got #1 on my friends list. :D
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on March 14, 2011, 05:06:48 PM
WRONG THREAD

uh Einhander rules #1
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 18, 2011, 01:43:43 PM
Eschatos has been delayed, release date is now TBA.

http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/03/18/xbox360_delays/

Sucks, but maybe I'll actually have some money for it by the time it comes out.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on March 18, 2011, 05:09:38 PM
There's a mamoru-kun demo up on jpsn.  Is that the one by g-rev? 
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 18, 2011, 05:41:28 PM
yeah, I think Grev and Gulti worked on it. The ps3 version is different from the 360 one though... Probably the biggest difference is they had to go in and make the game widescreen in order to get Sony's approval. I can't believe Sony is still so distinguished mentally-challenged about issues like that.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on March 18, 2011, 06:26:17 PM
The game is average at best although fun to play if you like Kikikaikai-style games.  I personally enjoyed the game although it definitely has some flaws (I say this a lot with games, but unlike something that I really believe is good such as Pink Sweets, there's really nothing substantial here so don't think I'm recommending this).  Anyone who's played the 360 version has no reason to get excited, nor should most PS3 owners looking for a solid shooting game (or one with any type of scoring potential).  Ah well, anyone who refuses to buy a 360 yet loves shooting games deserves to play mediocre crap like this, have fun!

No shock for Eschatos and Otomedius.  More or less every game being released soon is being delayed, probably a good move since I doubt most people in east Japan care about buying the latest games at this point.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on March 18, 2011, 07:47:05 PM
I tried the demo but didn't care for it.  Not a fan of twin-stick shmups really. 
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 26, 2011, 09:16:23 PM
Quote
Akai Katana Shin: They planned to release various info about the game but that’s been delayed due to the recent earthquake. They plan to started releasing detailed info next month. Asada says it’s probably their last shooter for this year.
http://www.cave-stg.com/?p=1235

BOOOOOOO

well hopefully this break from porting means they'll start putting out some more arcade games.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on March 28, 2011, 03:15:11 AM
yo iconoclast, I've been scouring the net for the Pink Sweets arrange ost. Cant find it anywhere  :'( Could you possibly up it for me?! It would be much appreciated. I just love he Stage 1 music so much, want it on my iPod.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on March 28, 2011, 04:22:54 AM
alright, i uploaded it. i didn't test all of the songs and i think there are a couple duplicate tracks because i renamed them, but you can just delete the extra ones.

pink sweets arrange ost: http://www.megaupload.com/?d=NPOXQZOM
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: The Sceneman on March 28, 2011, 05:30:58 AM
awesome! thanks a bunch, I owe you one bro
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on April 06, 2011, 07:49:59 PM
Two good games come out today!  If you're getting burned out by the constant CAVE releases, you can't go wrong with Bullet Soul and Eschatos!  Why they decided to compete against each other on the same day is beyond me, but oh well.  Buy them and support original and great games!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: choco parfait on April 07, 2011, 02:23:43 AM
Did anyone pick up Mamoru-kun PS3? No? Right.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Japan didn't pick it up either. So much for shmups on the PS3.  :smug
[close]
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on April 07, 2011, 03:14:02 AM
It would help if they released one that was actually good on the system.  That demo was really weak; felt like a doujin shmup.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on April 07, 2011, 03:14:57 AM
Although looking at the Amagami PS2 sales last week, I think shmup devs should leave the X360 and go back to the PS2.  PS2 niche markets still seem alive even today.  Maybe more than the PS3.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 07, 2011, 09:34:32 AM
I didn't even buy the 360 Mamoru-kun yet, no way I'm ever buying the PS3 version. Maybe I'll get it from the internet store some day.

Eschatos looks good. I'll probably get that along with Daifukkatsu Black Label and Mortal Kombat for my birthday in a couple weeks. I'll be waiting on impressions of Bullet Soul though. Hopefully that demo comes out soon.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on April 08, 2011, 12:13:36 AM
Eschatos is the real deal!

Although looking at the Amagami PS2 sales last week, I think shmup devs should leave the X360 and go back to the PS2.  PS2 niche markets still seem alive even today.  Maybe more than the PS3.

Visual Novels have always outsold shooters.  PS2 wasn't exactly a sales powerhouse for shooting games either.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on April 08, 2011, 01:11:37 AM
Eschatos is the real deal!

Although looking at the Amagami PS2 sales last week, I think shmup devs should leave the X360 and go back to the PS2.  PS2 niche markets still seem alive even today.  Maybe more than the PS3.

Visual Novels have always outsold shooters.  PS2 wasn't exactly a sales powerhouse for shooting games either.

Powerhouse, no.  But they certainly sold much better than they sell on X360 these days.  I think they should at least do multi-platform with X360 + PS2 releases if the PS2 can run them.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 08, 2011, 03:01:27 PM
Didn't Ibara sell like 3000 copies? Granted, it's the worst port of a Cave game to date, but even the 360 can pull better numbers than that. DFK, DFKBL, and MMP/PS didn't light up the charts, but Media Create also doesn't take online sales into account, so you could probably add several thousand copies onto their mediocre opening week numbers. I tihnk the audience for these games will follow them to whatever platform they release on, so going backwards won't change much. You'd even lose out on some key features like leaderboards, replay downloads, HD graphics, and achievements.

Anyway, here's some grim news from Cave's latest ustream broadcast:
Quote from: EOJ
From this broadcast: http://www.ustream.tv/channel/cave-zatsudan

-Dangun Feveron hasn't been released due to problems with marketing (not anything related to Microsoft). Asada's not sure it will come out. They were thinking XBLA, but then Asada keeps talking about how it might be better on a Smartphone, like the iphone. :maf
-They aren't sure if they will continue making arcade shooting games, they'll discuss it after Akai Katana Shin is finished.
-Asada says they have a great relationship with Microsoft, and the rumors that they aren't happy with MS or the X360 are not true.
-They may start releasing superplays on bluray, instead of DVD.

Those are the highlights from the first half hour. It will continue for another hour and a half, but I'm heading to bed now.
http://www.cave-stg.com/forum/index.php?topic=1306.0

The first two points are horrible. Dangun deserves a real port instead of some bastardized phone app, and Cave abandoning the arcade would probably be the worst news of this generation. Hopefully that doesn't happen.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: choco parfait on April 08, 2011, 03:30:06 PM
Although looking at the Amagami PS2 sales last week, I think shmup devs should leave the X360 and go back to the PS2.  PS2 niche markets still seem alive even today.

You can't put it like that. The reason Amagami sells well is because it's a part of a popular franchise, and it just came off of a strong anime series, so it has a lot of hype most normal ADVs won't have.

Not to mention that the PSP version sold much more than the PS2 version, which proves that fans are attracted to the franchise, not the platform. The PS2 version likely still did well because of the fact that it's a console version which means comfy couches and because unlike the PSP version you can import your old saves into the new ebi kore version (which is why I went for the PS2 version) so there are a lot of diehard fans who want to continue their old saves and stuff in the new version.

Almost any other normal ADV that has been released so far on the 360/PSP would bomb hard on the PS2 today. That is why so many of the small PCtoPS2 ADV porting companies have moved on to the PSP/360... it's where the people are now.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on April 08, 2011, 08:03:43 PM
The first two points are horrible. Dangun deserves a real port instead of some bastardized phone app, and Cave abandoning the arcade would probably be the worst news of this generation. Hopefully that doesn't happen.

I keep telling you suckers that CAVE is only interested in iPhone and social networking games now!  Look forward to seeing your favorite franchises being exploited on Facebook!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 15, 2011, 03:38:56 AM
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NrweAa3NiOc&feature=feedu[/youtube]

Soundtrack of the Year :bow

Ketsui and Mushihime-sama boss theme has been topped.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 24, 2011, 06:44:03 PM
Otomedius Excellent video of "Expert" mode
[youtube=560,345]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OPfufTNj2Uw&feature=feedu[/youtube]

New feature for the sequel: Instantly kill the bosses as soon as they appear! The easiest shooter ever has been made even easier!

Still going to buy it though. I really like the presentation of this series, and the first game was a fun diversion for a few days. Easy shooters have their place, after all. Relax and destroy everything effortlessly.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 27, 2011, 05:03:34 PM
Akai Katana demo coming soon: http://www.andriasang.com/e/blog/2011/04/27/akai_katana_shin_demo/

Quote
Cave development head Makoto Asada apparently sacrificed his Golden Week vacation in order to get the demo out quickly. In a post at the official Cave blog, Asada said that because he took time out for the demo, he'll have to spend Golden Week working on his adventure game Instant Brain.

:fbm

Poor Asada.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on April 30, 2011, 12:56:47 AM
Goddamn you guys suck, Trouble Witches Neo comes out and no one talks about it?  Finally a good shooting game with the name "Witches" in it!

I've played the arcade version quite a bit and like what they've done with the 360 port.  It's exactly the kind of game that's both accessible to both casual and hardcore players, and is fun to play at that.  I'll take this shit over Akai Katana anyday.

800 points for a solid game with quite a bit of content!  Anyone who doesn't buy it is no fan of shooting games!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: choco parfait on April 30, 2011, 01:06:57 AM
I remember playing the doujin PC version years ago. It was fun, and I've always been a fan of Studio Siesta because of their quality output despite being doujin developers since their early days.

Will get Neo eventually...
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 30, 2011, 01:18:32 AM
I bought it and played it for a couple hours. I like it, it has lots of content and nice graphics. I don't have much else to add though because I've been playing Futari obsessively over the last couple weeks (aiming for 500m in 1.5 Maniac). No time for other games.

Also it's distinguished mentally-challenged how you can upload scores after credit feeding.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on April 30, 2011, 01:20:55 AM
Also it's distinguished mentally-challenged how you can upload scores after credit feeding.

It lists the number of credits you used, and I highly doubt that someone who can 1cc the game will score lower than someone who needs to continue.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on April 30, 2011, 01:33:25 AM
I know, but it's still stupid. They should only upload the score you get on your first credit, just like, I dunno... every other game does. And it sucks for people who want to credit feed and see the entire game, since their highest score most likely won't be beaten until they can 1cc the game. It breaks friend leaderboards.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on April 30, 2011, 02:27:25 AM
Who cares, I'm all about beating the game on a single credit but I'm not worried about those cursed CASUAL gamers populating my friendslist thinking they're good at the game because they get a decent score (which will still be lower than mine).  Even if you feed through the game I'm sure you'll be able to break the score in your next round since your star bonus gets heavily penalized when you die, so there's still incentive to play better, along with achievements for doing so.  You might as well bitch about how you can buy extra lives since TRUE pro gamerz don't need that shit and just buy spell cards, curse those who waste their money in order to extend their playtime!

It's just a different system than the norm.  Sure, a 1cc-only upload is more "proper" or whatever, but it won't affect me and it's not like the amount of times they continued is some mystical number, just look at the last number of their score and then send them a message saying they're a n00b.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on May 24, 2011, 08:46:29 PM
Got any more PC Engine stuff?  I might be interested in increasing my collection, although I don't need any super-rare and expensive games.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on June 01, 2011, 01:11:08 PM
So Akai Katana sold only 5k opening week.  That's another few thousand down from DDFK which was already a bomb.  This whole "releasing Cave shmups on X360" thing is really not going well for Cave anymore.  It started off strong back when DS1 was released, but every game it drops and drops and drops and 5k for a hot new game like AK that isn't available on iphones or anywhere else is pretty horrific.

I wonder if they're even going to bother porting shmups to console anymore even if they resume making new arcade shmups in the future.  It seems like the X360 shmup fanbase has left the building at this point.

It'd be interesting to find out if their XBLA/GoD games have fared any better in sales.  Because that might be the route they need to go.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on June 01, 2011, 07:59:53 PM
That's not good, but I'm sure that number could easily be doubled since Media Create doesn't track online sales. And really, there's no way the 360 shooter fanbase has left the building because they have nowhere else to go.

Also, it seems like Cave has hired a new game development director who was responsible for the AKS port, so maybe they've still got some plans.
Quote from: spadgy
First off, I was having a conversation with Cave's internal PR yesterday about something totally separate (I almost had an Asada E3 interview slot. Now he's not going :( ) when I learned a small piece of trivia about Aka Katana. I said I was enjoying the Akai Katana Shin package, to which the guy at Cave said something like 'its quality is thanks to the efforts of our new game development director Hiroyuki Kimura, and the refinement of scoring done by our programmers.
http://shmups.system11.org/viewtopic.php?p=690586#p690586
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on June 01, 2011, 08:23:56 PM
Having not played the arcade version I dunno how the port is in accuracy, but yeah it seems like a great port otherwise, so that's good the guy is going to be in charge of more stuff.  The only thing missing is it has a lot fewer arrange modes than some of the other Cave games.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on June 01, 2011, 08:33:52 PM
I think Akai Katana is one game where 100% port accuracy would be detrimental. As far as I know, the limitations of the PCB caused lots of unnecessary slowdown, so if they got rid of that, I'd say that's a good thing. Between DFKBL and AK, I think Cave has pretty much pushed their current hardware to its limit.

I'd like to see them design a 360 exclusive shooter that takes full advantage of the console. It could be glorious.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: Bebpo on June 01, 2011, 09:00:18 PM
Depends.  I really like heavy slowdown in my shmups when things get hectic.  If a made for X360 shmup has no slowdown or little slowdown it'd be kind of :(
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on June 01, 2011, 09:12:04 PM
Yeah, but most of the time the slowdown is simulated, it's not because the hardware can't keep up. I think in the arcade version of AK, having tons of gold circling your character would start to cause some problems with the hardware. And in DFKBL, it's possible to overloard the sprites, which causes some sprites to disappear or flicker. So in a 360 shooter, they could get rid of all of those problems and keep the slowdown in all of the right places. :)
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on June 01, 2011, 11:08:16 PM
Don't forget that Cave's own online store completely sold out of AK, including those extremely expensive LE sets.  The game hasn't price collapsed either in physical or online stores, so it definitely hasn't bombed (unlike DFK, which was reduced in price pretty fast despite having higher MC numbers).

PS/MMP did well enough to get a second shipment for online stores, which is probably a good sign.  It's too difficult to rely on MC for 360 titles since most of the niche games are sold online.  I sure as hell don't buy them in the stores, they're much cheaper to buy on Amazon and shipping is fast enough.  Sure, titles like Deathsmiles and Otomedius chart harder, but they're also a bit more "casual" in design and appeal, so more likely to have stock sold in the stores.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on June 02, 2011, 01:39:04 AM
Yeah it's really hard to judge a game's difficulty when you're playing a port on an HDTV with a normal controller, or even with a stick.  I always do significantly worse in the ports.  Probably a combination of controller, not being so close up to the screen, it being windowed (no way I'm putting my HDTV on tate), and less sense of urgency since my money isn't on the line and I'm more likely going to try playing the "right" way instead of having surviving being my main priority.  Kind of works out though, since if I can do well enough on a home port, I'll have no problem taking out the arcade version.

I'm usually too lazy to pull out my stick and I don't really have a good place to put it in my apartment anyway.  I definitely think that stick is the way to go with shooters, you're definitely gimping yourself playing with a stock controller.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on September 15, 2011, 10:09:40 PM
Goddamn, I'd have hoped someone would have posted about Radiant Silvergun by now!

Anyway it seems to be a good port and I'm enjoying it.  I've only played the arcade version, not the Saturn port, so the story mode is all new to me.  It's easy to see why this game is highly respected, although I still feel it's a bit overhyped.  It's still better than Ikaruga!
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: iconoclast on September 15, 2011, 10:26:25 PM
I played Radiant Silvergun for like 30 minutes - I don't like it very much at first glance. The OG chaining systems means you basically have to evade half of the enemies in the game, which needless to say is completely distinguished mentally-challenged, but at least the Ikaruga mode could be good. But I dunno, I don't really like any enemy chaining games besides Daioujou.
Title: Re: Shooting games thread
Post by: originalz on September 15, 2011, 11:40:33 PM
Yeah the game has some tremendous flaws and is very restrictive in chaining, to the point where it's kind of boring if you're only playing for score (especially if you do the boss milking).  I'm not the biggest fan of it but I can see why the Saturn port is so respected, it's the perfect game for people who don't follow other shooting games but like to sound like they know what they're talking about.  It's worth playing a few non-serious rounds if nothing else, and the port itself is pretty good.