THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: MrAngryFace on October 26, 2011, 07:08:44 PM

Title: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 26, 2011, 07:08:44 PM
So i've got over 100 hours sunk into the PC version and here I find myself the past few weeks picking at the 360 version; which is, despite its fuglyness, still a lot of fun. I am also shocked at how decent the UI is.

Is this one of my favorite games of all time? This generic game with a generic cherry on top?

Dont even ask why I picked up Dragon Age II for 360- sure I finished it on PC but REALLY? Oh i'll play it, and ill be all like FUK THE TEMPLARS MAGES UNITE!

Maybe i'm just subconciously trying to fund a Garrus/Varric crossover title.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 26, 2011, 07:11:37 PM
I love it, but it's not even Top 5 WRPG of the generation for me.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 26, 2011, 07:17:01 PM
I love it, but it's not even Top 5 WRPG of the generation for me.

I clearly love it, but its a different kind of love than say....skies of arcadia/tech romancer/etc...I cant quite put my finger on what its all about
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 26, 2011, 07:25:28 PM
It's just eminently playable.  I also sunk well over 100 hours into it across multiple platforms.  Honestly, reminds me of KOTOR last gen as a comparison.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 26, 2011, 07:26:56 PM
It's just eminently playable.  I also sunk well over 100 hours into it across multiple platforms.  Honestly, reminds me of KOTOR last gen as a comparison.

the first + expansion is pretty great; the second game does have Varric, who may be one of the best bioware characters ever. A realistic BRO if I ever saw one
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: demi on October 26, 2011, 07:31:32 PM
pretty shit game. might as well play JRPGs.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 26, 2011, 10:00:59 PM
I know, right? wtfffffffffffff ar tonelico here I cum :*(



haha jus kidding- ill stick with my shitty games
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Stoney Mason on October 26, 2011, 10:21:13 PM
Great game. Hopefully 3 will be more like it than the lame ass #2. And actually epic in scale and feel like the original.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 26, 2011, 10:28:14 PM
Varric was totally sweet.  I have tried to play DA2 twice now and keep stopping.  The last time it was after the stupid quest where
spoiler (click to show/hide)
your mom gets abducted and used in a science experiment, I was all like "ok I can't even TRY to take this shit seriously anymore."
[close]

Then I replayed the GC and Wiinis Fire Emblems.  I need to find more games like that, they rule.  Although hopefully within 4-5 months I won't need to worry about this shit anymore as Diablo 3 will be out and I will just drop out of society for a year or so.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 26, 2011, 11:18:11 PM
triumph, have you played titan quest
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 26, 2011, 11:28:43 PM
pc version is still the best wrpg this gen (that I've played)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Madrun Badrun on October 27, 2011, 12:26:29 AM
I agree.  I love it and yet really can't say why it's so good.  I also liked 2 as well even if it was disappointing.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 27, 2011, 02:56:32 AM
triumph, have you played titan quest

no
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 03:43:09 AM
triumph, have you played titan quest

no

ultimate diablo clone, brah
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: tiesto on October 27, 2011, 08:43:54 AM
pc version is still the best wrpg this gen (that I've played)

Mine's still Witcher 1. I never really was interested in Dragon Age, it looked too generic. I did play the demo of the second one and it was horrible.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 27, 2011, 10:36:42 AM
Fallout New Vegas takes every rpg related crownings, but Dragon Age is ok. It's total butt compared to Baldur's Gate in every single department, especially graphics :lol
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: cool breeze on October 27, 2011, 11:56:20 AM
I liked DAO a lot.  I think it did a good job in letting you build your character.  There're a bunch of transparent choices and stuff, but I was fooled enough to think I was dictating what happened.  It was really generic but whatever, I did good deeds and had an elf manservant.  I'm ok with that.  The origins sections might have helped a lot too.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 27, 2011, 12:07:45 PM
If I was ranking the last 6-7 years of Western RPGs, they'd go something like this:

1. Fallout: New Vegas
2. Deus Ex: Human Revolution
3. Fallout 3
4. Mass Effect 2
5. The Witcher 2
6. Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion
7. Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines
8. The Witcher
9. Mass Effect 1
10. Dragon Age
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 27, 2011, 12:18:24 PM
That's a weird order since Mass Effect 1 was a lot better than Mass Effect 2.

haha what
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 27, 2011, 12:20:27 PM
That's a weird order since Mass Effect 1 was a lot better than Mass Effect 2.

Mass Effect 1 had essentially broken gameplay, a sub-standard RPG system welded to a sub-standard shooting system. ME2 did away with much of the RPG system, but replaced it with a far improved shooting system that was actually fun to play. I also enjoyed the "episodic" nature of the storyline, even if the main plot was far weaker and less interesting as a whole than in the previous game. The inclusion of Illium wins huge favors for me, and the excellent Lair of the Shadow Broker DLC ties a nice bow on the package. Having good and evil decisions tied into the cutscenes themselves [rather than just going through dialog choice] was also a nice touch.

ME1 had the better main plot and the better OST, but it wasn't the better game, in my humble opinion of course.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 27, 2011, 03:28:48 PM
in RPGS atmosphere, plot and ost go alot farther to me than 'gameplay' , the nebulous term as any time i'm 'playing the game' is gameplay, even dialogue.

but idc that much about Mass Effect to have a side, it's not really an rpg series anymore and i don't care that it's not, i just prefer the experience of 1 better.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 03:31:35 PM
in RPGS atmosphere, plot and ost go alot farther to me than 'gameplay' , the nebulous term as any time i'm 'playing the game' is gameplay, even dialogue.

but idc that much about Mass Effect to have a side, it's not really an rpg series anymore and i don't care that it's not, i just prefer the experience of 1 better.

This is what I don't get about most wrpg fanatics. They seem mostly concerned about plot and story than mechanics and gameplay.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Stoney Mason on October 27, 2011, 03:34:49 PM
in RPGS atmosphere, plot and ost go alot farther to me than 'gameplay' , the nebulous term as any time i'm 'playing the game' is gameplay, even dialogue.

but idc that much about Mass Effect to have a side, it's not really an rpg series anymore and i don't care that it's not, i just prefer the experience of 1 better.

This is what I don't get about most wrpg fanatics. They seem mostly concerned about plot and story than mechanics and gameplay.

If I'm spending >20 hours in a game it better damn sure have some great immersion qualities. Whether we specifically call that "plot" and "story" is another issue. It's why Fallout New Vegas for me would never make any list other than buggiest pile of 2010. But that's just my imo.

If I'm not motivated by your world in some manner I'm going to stop playing your game once it goes over a certain time length.

The only real exception to me for this is loot games which have a constant level up and reward mechanic in place. But the reality is that most games can't effectively string it out for that long.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 27, 2011, 03:37:01 PM
WRPGs have completely, absolutely shit all over JRPGs in mechanics and gameplay this gen.  Story and plot for that matter, too.

As an aside:  I see a bunch of people saying they enjoyed Fallout New Vegas more than Fallout 3 in this thread... really?  I admit that I never got to the strip in New Vegas but for whatever reason the game just didn't click with me like 3 did.  Could have something to do with all of the goddamn glitches, bugs, and updates but yeah.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Stoney Mason on October 27, 2011, 03:39:03 PM
WRPGs have completely, absolutely shit all over JRPGs in mechanics and gameplay this gen.  Story and plot for that matter, too.

As an aside:  I see a bunch of people saying they enjoyed Fallout New Vegas more than Fallout 3 in this thread... really?  I admit that I never got to the strip in New Vegas but for whatever reason the game just didn't click with me like 3 did.  Could have something to do with all of the goddamn glitches, bugs, and updates but yeah.

Some people love Obsidian so they love that game and the "Obsidian elements"  it brings to the table. I'm not much of a fan of them and I had issues with that game even beyond the bugs.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 27, 2011, 03:41:32 PM
I liked Fallout 3 more- the story was more meaningful (even if poorly constructed) and the setting had a lot of impact. New Vegas while A LOT of fun never felt like everything that happened happened for any particular reason.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 27, 2011, 03:41:51 PM
The "gameplay" is still a very, VERY large chunk of the Mass Effect series.

Despite what some here will say, I liked the ME2 OST. It was a bit more symphonic, but there were still a lot of really great tracks. The main story wasn't as strong, but the little stories along the way [the side missions and the character missions] were very enjoyable and gave the game a different [but not necessarily BAD] feel. As for atmosphere, ME2 still had that in droves. Places like Illium, the Shadow Broker's hideout, and Omega were great locations to look at and become immersed in.

Yes, ME1 did some things better, but it's not an either/or situation here.

WRPGs have completely, absolutely shit all over JRPGs in mechanics and gameplay this gen.  Story and plot for that matter, too.

As an aside:  I see a bunch of people saying they enjoyed Fallout New Vegas more than Fallout 3 in this thread... really?  I admit that I never got to the strip in New Vegas but for whatever reason the game just didn't click with me like 3 did.  Could have something to do with all of the goddamn glitches, bugs, and updates but yeah.

Kinda hard to really put into words, but I guess if I had to come up with some solid reason I'd say it's because I liked the world a bit better. They're both really close together in mind, so much so that the tiniest things here and there make the different for me. And I never had much of an issue with bugs and what-not, so it's not really a consideration.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 03:45:26 PM
WRPGs have completely, absolutely shit all over JRPGs in mechanics and gameplay this gen.  Story and plot for that matter, too.

As an aside:  I see a bunch of people saying they enjoyed Fallout New Vegas more than Fallout 3 in this thread... really?  I admit that I never got to the strip in New Vegas but for whatever reason the game just didn't click with me like 3 did.  Could have something to do with all of the goddamn glitches, bugs, and updates but yeah.

I don't know. Aside from Dragon Age for pc, I just don't agree. All the other games I've played they've turned them into weird hybrids. Mass Effect 2 is great, but I wouldn't consider it an rpg, for example.

I haven't sank my teeth into New Vegas yet either. It's sitting on my shelf. Maybe next year.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 03:51:11 PM
Actually, I enjoy wrpg and jrpgs both, passionately, in fact. It really wasn't a wrpg vs jrpg thing. I mean, Dragon Age: Origins is my favorite rpg this generation.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 27, 2011, 03:52:01 PM
Name me some of these great JRPGs from this gen, cause I'm just not seeing them.  If you say FF anything, I will punch you in the dick over the internet.

The only enjoyable JRPG experiences I've had this gen are Lost Odyssey and Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn.  Lost Odyssey was completely because of the story/plot- the gameplay was absolute generic vanilla rpg stuff.  Radiant Dawn was enjoyable for the complete opposite reason- gameplay and I guess a little bit of nostalgia carried over from PoR.  Everything else out of Japan that I've played has been either mediocre or awful.  Compare that to DA:O, Fallout 3 and even New Vegas... yeah.  Plus, unlike you I don't sit around and cry over ME2 not being an rpg.  It's an action rpg and a damn fine one.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 04:03:23 PM
Name me some of these great JRPGs from this gen, cause I'm just not seeing them.  If you say FF anything, I will punch you in the dick over the internet.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Etrian Odyssey
Cladun
Dragon Quest IX
Tales of Vesperia
Devil Survivor
Demon's Souls
Valkyrie Chronicles
Ys VII
Ys III
ZHP

If you want to have good jrpgs this gen you have to go to the handhelds. This may or may not be to your liking, but they're certainly there like they always have been and I haven't even played Dark Souls, Last Remnant, Trails of the Sky, or Radiant Historia, which I hear are fab.

My original point was that I find it sad that the bulk of the wrpgs this gen have sacrificed their more rpg roots for becoming glorified shooters. It wasn't a post directly comparing jrpgs to wrpgs in any way, though to be truthful, I do find jrpgs to be mechanically superior to wrpgs, as seen in games such as Strange Journey or Demons's Souls, which hilariously enough, are games directly inspired by western rpgs of old.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 04:05:08 PM
Name me some of these great JRPGs from this gen, cause I'm just not seeing them.  If you say FF anything, I will punch you in the dick over the internet.

The only enjoyable JRPG experiences I've had this gen are Lost Odyssey and Fire Emblem Radiant Dawn.  Lost Odyssey was completely because of the story/plot- the gameplay was absolute generic vanilla rpg stuff.  Radiant Dawn was enjoyable for the complete opposite reason- gameplay and I guess a little bit of nostalgia carried over from PoR.  Everything else out of Japan that I've played has been either mediocre or awful.  Compare that to DA:O, Fallout 3 and even New Vegas... yeah.  Plus, unlike you I don't sit around and cry over ME2 not being an rpg.  It's an action rpg and a damn fine one.

ME2 is a damn fine game, sure. But it's also mechanically light rpg. It is literally Your First RPG. This wouldn't be a problem if it weren't advertised heavily as an rpg, but going from Dragon Age: origins, with its myriad of options and customization to Mass Effect 2 was the ultimate lol.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 04:10:27 PM
in RPGS atmosphere, plot and ost go alot farther to me than 'gameplay' , the nebulous term as any time i'm 'playing the game' is gameplay, even dialogue.

but idc that much about Mass Effect to have a side, it's not really an rpg series anymore and i don't care that it's not, i just prefer the experience of 1 better.

This is what I don't get about most wrpg fanatics. They seem mostly concerned about plot and story than mechanics and gameplay.

If I'm spending >20 hours in a game it better damn sure have some great immersion qualities. Whether we specifically call that "plot" and "story" is another issue. It's why Fallout New Vegas for me would never make any list other than buggiest pile of 2010. But that's just my imo.

If I'm not motivated by your world in some manner I'm going to stop playing your game once it goes over a certain time length.

The only real exception to me for this is loot games which have a constant level up and reward mechanic in place. But the reality is that most games can't effectively string it out for that long.

I completely understand this.

But I think there's a line between your philosophy, and like say, GreatRumbler's, where they advertise how much of a great game Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines is, and it turns out that it play like shit. But it's written well! -- and that apparently is the only thing that truly matters. Have the same issue with those crappy Euro rpgs every drools over.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 27, 2011, 04:18:36 PM
in RPGS atmosphere, plot and ost go alot farther to me than 'gameplay' , the nebulous term as any time i'm 'playing the game' is gameplay, even dialogue.

but idc that much about Mass Effect to have a side, it's not really an rpg series anymore and i don't care that it's not, i just prefer the experience of 1 better.

This is what I don't get about most wrpg fanatics. They seem mostly concerned about plot and story than mechanics and gameplay.

If I'm spending >20 hours in a game it better damn sure have some great immersion qualities. Whether we specifically call that "plot" and "story" is another issue. It's why Fallout New Vegas for me would never make any list other than buggiest pile of 2010. But that's just my imo.

If I'm not motivated by your world in some manner I'm going to stop playing your game once it goes over a certain time length.

The only real exception to me for this is loot games which have a constant level up and reward mechanic in place. But the reality is that most games can't effectively string it out for that long.

I completely understand this.

But I think there's a line between your philosophy, and like say, GreatRumbler's, where they advertise how much of a great game Vampire The Masquerade: Bloodlines is, and it turns out that it play like shit. But it's written well! -- and that apparently is the only thing that truly matters. Have the same issue with those crappy Euro rpgs every drools over.

You'll find precious few posts where I hold up Vampire the Masquerade: Bloodlines as an objectively "great game". It's the ultimate flawed gem, an exercise in what could have been if the developer had more talent/time/money. I'll recommend it because it offers a great experience if one is willing to put up with horribly broken combat and laughable [but thankfully infrequent] cutscenes. It's got great characters, great writing, great voice-acting, great RPG mechanics, and interesting story, quests, and world. Seven years of fan-patches have got it into some semblance of order, thankfully.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 27, 2011, 04:21:29 PM
Nier is kinda of the same way
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on October 27, 2011, 04:48:34 PM
Who cares about story.  U guys are lame.  Fallout NV>>>>>>>>>>>Fallout3

absolutely

which reminds me, some upcoming Steam Sale should drop the shit out of New Vegas and its DLC - which DLC packs are Awesome and which ones are Shit
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on October 27, 2011, 04:50:42 PM
Bad shit is going down.  You need to get stats and loots to stop it.  Best story ever.

when you put it this way, I look forward to the Eurogamer 10/10 Diablo III review
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 04:51:37 PM
Bad shit is going down.  You need to get stats and loots to stop it.  Best story ever.

:rock
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 27, 2011, 05:05:55 PM
Bad shit is going down.  You need to get stats and loots to stop it.  Best story ever.

Tell me more of this stats and loots you speak of.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Positive Touch on October 27, 2011, 05:13:39 PM
Who cares about story.  U guys are lame.  Fallout NV>>>>>>>>>>>Fallout3

i couldn't get into nv BECAUSE so much of it was lame story.  i was expecting fo3 with more time spent running around towns, working opposing sides against each other for hilarious results.  what i got was a game that played like fo3 except they replaced all the long, drawn-out quests with short, boring fetchquests, they made a worldmap that's so rigid it actually has invisible walls, and they made everything built around a shitty story that goes nowhere.  most of the time the choices you face in quests are about as deep as rage's: you either do them or you dont.  theres very few opportunities to play good or bad, or to make critical decisions mid-quest.  you barely even get to interact with one of the two sides of the big conflict in the story.  its usually just "hey another ncr camp lets see what shit quests they have for me!!"  ive been playing for months and only JUST got the dude who runs the strip cuz i keep getting so bored.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 27, 2011, 06:18:14 PM
man i wish i still had the fight in me to just go and counterpoint left hook all this, but i just don't got the dogs barking anymore. 

Story and Gameplay being considered seperate gameplay elements means that the game has failed, and that's why I like good RPG's as they weave the two elements together.  The story is told through the gameplay elements, which is what Obsidian and Troika excell(ed) at.  Planescape wouldn't be a good novel, it'd be decent, but as a story told through the medium of games, using the tools of the medium, it's the top of its class.

The technical quips are just a result of too much complexity, simple as that, if you want the game to be 'dumb' in rpg terms, turn it into a shooter ala Mass Effect and you'll be relatively bug free.  It's why Modern Warfare is relatively clean as a whistle compared to Fallout 1

Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: tiesto on October 27, 2011, 07:05:27 PM
Name me some of these great JRPGs from this gen, cause I'm just not seeing them.  If you say FF anything, I will punch you in the dick over the internet.

Shin Megami Tensei: Strange Journey
Etrian Odyssey
Cladun
Dragon Quest IX
Tales of Vesperia
Devil Survivor
Demon's Souls
Valkyrie Chronicles
Ys VII
Ys III
ZHP

If you want to have good jrpgs this gen you have to go to the handhelds. This may or may not be to your liking, but they're certainly there like they always have been and I haven't even played Dark Souls, Last Remnant, Trails of the Sky, or Radiant Historia, which I hear are fab.

My original point was that I find it sad that the bulk of the wrpgs this gen have sacrificed their more rpg roots for becoming glorified shooters. It wasn't a post directly comparing jrpgs to wrpgs in any way, though to be truthful, I do find jrpgs to be mechanically superior to wrpgs, as seen in games such as Strange Journey or Demons's Souls, which hilariously enough, are games directly inspired by western rpgs of old.

Radiant Historia has a nice battle system and a lot of good going for it, although there's a few places where the lack of budget really shows. It's one of the best games on the DS though, and I think Triumph as a BOF:DQ fan will appreciate some of the elements in it (like placing down traps and knocking enemies into them). Also, The World Ends With You is fucking sweet with its dual-screen battles and lots of interesting design decisions (like a variable difficulty level, encounter chaining, tons of different special attacks), Half Minute Hero is a fun and addicting mini-RPG, Valkyrie Profile:Covenant of the Plume combines the VP combo-based battle system with a SRPG grid and a cool mechanic where you can sacrifice party members for powerful abilities. Not to mention my personal favorite RPG this gen, Resonance of Fate, with its crazy-ass gun kata inspired battle system and goofy sense of humor. All great and unique mechanically-driven games from the magical land of Nippon. :uguu

I don't really like many western RPG battle systems, apart from the top-down Infinity Engine style and some of the earlier games. Even the ones that have adopted FPS or third-person elements, haven't been very great. Mass Effect 2 comes the closest, but it's pretty repetitive running down the same corridors fighting the same grunts, without much of a plot beyond "recruit a crew and then solve their daddy issues". ME1 had much more interesting dungeons and much better music/atmosphere... but the sidequests and combat were total rubbish. The best western RPG I played in the last few years... was Planescape: Torment from 1999.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 07:19:18 PM
Even Planescape isn't that fun to play.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 27, 2011, 08:14:29 PM
Apparently, all we have learned from this thread is that weeaboos are gonna be weeaboos, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.  "BUBUBUT HANDHELDS!"
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 27, 2011, 08:25:32 PM
Even the dregs of the PS2 era are better than some of these "great" JRPGs.  :-\
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 27, 2011, 08:54:29 PM
J vs W debates are a waste o time
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 08:56:56 PM
Even the dregs of the PS2 era are better than some of these "great" JRPGs.  :-\

Better than which ones? The ones I listed are so choice.

Apparently, all we have learned from this thread is that weeaboos are gonna be weeaboos, no matter how much evidence there is to the contrary.  "BUBUBUT HANDHELDS!"

I listed a lot of great games. You can ignore them if you want.

J vs W debates are a waste o time

I agree.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Smooth Groove on October 27, 2011, 08:58:42 PM
J vs W debates are a waste o time

I like W better because there's no censoring pixelation.   
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 27, 2011, 11:26:34 PM
My issue with J fans is that they act like there isnt a tidal wave of shit JRPGs every year that go under the radar because publishers know the games wont sell over here. You get that level of filtration WRPGs just dont enjoy.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 27, 2011, 11:42:11 PM
My issue with J fans is that they act like there isnt a tidal wave of shit JRPGs every year that go under the radar because publishers know the games wont sell over here. You get that level of filtration WRPGs just dont enjoy.

Yep. Can't stand the people who worship every jrpg ever either.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 27, 2011, 11:55:56 PM
jrpg fans like that shit tho.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 28, 2011, 12:07:35 AM
The fact remains, however, that a large contingent of stereotypical weeaboos dig that sort of thing.  It would be great if we could pretend they don't exist but let's be real about it.

Not saying that WRPGs and fans don't have their icky counterpoints... the bioware fans that just want to have relationships with Morrigan and shit come to mind.  But that's more of a bug than a feature imo.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 28, 2011, 12:29:26 AM
jrpgs "fans" is a pretty wide label. Because you like jrpgs doesn't mean it's the only genre you play, and it also means you don't have to like shit like Ar Tonelico. Sorry Drinky.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 28, 2011, 12:30:14 AM
jrpg fans like that shit tho.

I'm a JRPG fan and I don't like that shit.  Then again, I guess I'm not a JRPG fan to the extent that I love a game just for being in the genre.  I also don't ignore handhelds so I've had more than enough good JRPGs to play without having to convince myself that the latest PS3 shitbomb JRPG is actually NOT SO BAD if you give it a chance!

WHITE KNIGHT CHRONICLES
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on October 28, 2011, 01:46:33 AM
Maybe I just find the jrpg equivalent to be creepier because, you know, waifus.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 28, 2011, 01:50:19 AM
chain combo annihilated in here, jesus
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 28, 2011, 01:54:53 AM
Even Planescape isn't that fun to play.

It's engaging, it's not Super Mario weeeeeeeeeeeee.

Silent Hill isn't fun, how could it be? but it's engaging.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: The Sceneman on October 28, 2011, 02:54:40 AM
thread not about Dragon's Lair

fail

[youtube=560,345]FWzrcb8qZg8&feature=player_embedded[/youtube]
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: magus on October 28, 2011, 03:57:50 AM
you guys are lucky i usualy don't enter thread with dragon age written on it :punch
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: tiesto on October 28, 2011, 11:23:40 AM
My issue with J fans is that they act like there isnt a tidal wave of shit JRPGs every year that go under the radar because publishers know the games wont sell over here. You get that level of filtration WRPGs just dont enjoy.

Honestly, the filtration level ain't what it used to be for JRPGs.  I think more decent games than terrible ones have been left over here while I've been here.  The truly awful shit like Gust RPGs and stuff like Neptunia seem to make it over without fail, while higher quality efforts from companies like SEGA, Capcom, and Nintendo stay in Japan.  This is certainly a newer phenomena (probably from PS2 generation onwards), but there just aren't as many quick and dirty garbage JRPGs made these days.  The 8/16/32bit eras though?  Whoa nelly, I'm only starting to grasp just how much JRPG shiiiiiiiiiiiit was produced in those eras.

Yup, I've said it before, it really sucks how we have been getting Idea Factory rubbish and god knows what else... but lots of great games have been staying in Japan, namely 7th Dragon, the other Trails in the Sky games, Last Ranker, and some little game I heard might be good called Xenoblade. That's what fans are getting up in arms about, not that games like "My Little Sister Can't Be This Cute" and that baby-making RPG aren't getting english releases.

Unfortunately while Japanese RPGs are my favorite genre, I know there's a lot of rubbish (in fact, the most popular RPG series worldwide tends to have a whole bunch of bad games in it :P ). I've played RPGs so bad that you can only imagine (Ghost Lion, Hydlide)... I have a bit more tolerance for "average" RPGs though, but that's typical to any genre-fan.

Triumph most definitely needs to give Resonance of Fate, Radiant Historia, and Covenant of the Plume a try, I think he'd dig those.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 28, 2011, 12:03:37 PM
I REALLY liked Resonance of Fate, the battle system was a lot of fun- I think if they randomized the fights a smidge more it would have been up there with VP2's system in my book
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: pilonv1 on October 28, 2011, 07:33:43 PM
Story in fallout new vegas old world blues beats everything. Robots who think you have penis feet? 10/10
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: tiesto on October 28, 2011, 08:10:53 PM
I've heard so many divisive opinions of New Vegas, I really need to see for myself... Loved original Fallout 3 though, a LOT more than I thought.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 28, 2011, 09:18:27 PM
I've heard so many divisive opinions of New Vegas, I really need to see for myself... Loved original Fallout 3 though, a LOT more than I thought.

The biggest problem with New Vegas was all the glitches and instability in the initial release. There's really no reason, now that's been patched up, that you wouldn't like it if you also liked F3.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 28, 2011, 11:32:50 PM
Just for the record, while I like Fallout 3 the most- Fallout New Vegas is no slouch
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: pilonv1 on October 29, 2011, 05:10:41 AM
The characters in NV put it over the top for me. Both are great though.

Probably why I don't like DA at all.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on October 29, 2011, 06:43:59 AM
NV really didnt do it for me. The whole warring factions was just a bit of a clusterfuck.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 29, 2011, 11:01:56 AM
NV really didnt do it for me. The whole warring factions was just a bit of a clusterfuck.

how? it was awesome and gave a grounded context to the situation. an actual interesting social situation than white knights and orcs

i'm not a fan of Fallout 3 that much compared to NV or any other Fallout, but i do like it. i'm not an NMA'er
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: iconoclast on October 29, 2011, 11:18:31 AM
I don't understand people who play RPGs and say story doesn't matter. Isn't that the whole point of an RPG? If all you're interested in is tactical gameplay, there are a ton of games out there with more depth and complexity than story-focused games like Dragon Age or Fallout 3 or what have you. I'm not saying those games are bad (I liked both of them), but if the story, characters, world, etc. weren't interesting, then I don't see why anyone would play them.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Stoney Mason on October 29, 2011, 11:46:37 AM
I don't understand people who play RPGs and say story doesn't matter. Isn't that the whole point of an RPG? If all you're interested in is tactical gameplay, there are a ton of games out there with more depth and complexity than story-focused games like Dragon Age or Fallout 3 or what have you. I'm not saying those games are bad (I liked both of them), but if the story, characters, world, etc. weren't interesting, then I don't see why anyone would play them.

Agreed.

The combat system in the Fallout games is mostly boring for instance. That's not why you play the game. Although once again I would substitute immersion for the term story.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on October 29, 2011, 12:08:36 PM
I don't understand people who play RPGs and say story doesn't matter. Isn't that the whole point of an RPG? If all you're interested in is tactical gameplay, there are a ton of games out there with more depth and complexity than story-focused games like Dragon Age or Fallout 3 or what have you. I'm not saying those games are bad (I liked both of them), but if the story, characters, world, etc. weren't interesting, then I don't see why anyone would play them.

because, and perhaps you need to be a bit aspertarded to get this, NUMBERS.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 29, 2011, 12:16:29 PM
Story and Gameplay being considered different concepts in a game make that game kind of not good,  the story has to be woven into the gameplay until they are indistuingishable.  It's why i don't like most games, it's 'gameplay' then sit and watch a cutscene... wow, way to take advantage of the medium
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Stoney Mason on October 29, 2011, 01:17:56 PM
The thing is I get why some gamers are against the idea of "story". Because reviewers use the story concept to cover over game flaws and pretend they don't exist. They've started to review games as if they are fucking movies instead of games first and foremost which is annoying as fuck. And gamers tend to be more about the gameplay which in most cases is the right call. Then there is the tiring debate about what constitutes quality game story telling which means different things to different people. Which is why I don't really like to talk about or debate story merits in video games. All I can really say is when I play a game whether I'm hooking into the character and want to continue to find out what happens to that character or I dig being that character. Mass Effect has high immersion for me. Red Dead Redemption had high immersion for me. Fallout has high immersion for me. Hell MW 2 had high immersion for me because of the combat, the music, and the atmopshere. The story is garbage but I was immersed as hell and in the moment. So yes immersion does matter to me. And it means different things to different people. And it matters more the longer the game is.

It's why Crackdown never attracted me. Or Just Cause. Even though I get why others really dug those games.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 29, 2011, 04:25:58 PM
you said like the exact same fucking thing at the top of this page.

it's not that they're different concepts as much as they are different elements.  saying "i feel the story in this game is crappy, but the combat systems are pretty cool" is like saying "I thought the graphics kind of sucked, but the music was outstanding".  or saying "man the special effects in transformers are pretty good but only a cocksucking distinguished mentally-challenged fellow would like the story".

get angry some more?

sure, i agree when talking about those elements, but when dealing with rpg's it's a different issue altogether. 
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 29, 2011, 04:35:50 PM
It's a balance with any kind of game. I've played and enjoyed RPGs with terrible stories but fun gameplay, I've played and enjoyed RPGs with amazing stories and lackluster [even BAD] gameplay. Personal tolerance and preferences are going to play a part, of course, but I don't think it's fair to say it's necessary for both aspects to be great in order for the game to be worth playing.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Stoney Mason on October 29, 2011, 04:40:09 PM
I don't think it's fair to say it's necessary for both aspects to be great in order for the game to be worth playing.


Very few games in any genre manage this feat. You're lucky if you get a couple in a generation. There is always that trading point of how much jank can I tolerate for either good gameplay or good immersion.

Stalker for instance is a game that I want to like. It has great immersion. (Which is different than story). But I just can't tolerate the gameplay. Others can and do and love that series.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: magus on October 29, 2011, 05:08:06 PM
i loved the world ends with you kiddie version of gantz

sue me! :violin

radiata stories has a nice war plot too!

spoiler (click to show/hide)
xenoblade plot is awfull :teehee
[close]
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 29, 2011, 06:40:50 PM
I don't understand people who play RPGs and say story doesn't matter. Isn't that the whole point of an RPG? If all you're interested in is tactical gameplay, there are a ton of games out there with more depth and complexity than story-focused games like Dragon Age or Fallout 3 or what have you. I'm not saying those games are bad (I liked both of them), but if the story, characters, world, etc. weren't interesting, then I don't see why anyone would play them.

because, and perhaps you need to be a bit aspertarded to get this, NUMBERS.

Damn.

You my nicca.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: magus on October 29, 2011, 06:46:26 PM
(http://www.kotowari.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/baal.png)

look at those hot digit :o
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 29, 2011, 06:59:05 PM
The thing is I get why some gamers are against the idea of "story". Because reviewers use the story concept to cover over game flaws and pretend they don't exist. They've started to review games as if they are fucking movies instead of games first and foremost which is annoying as fuck. And gamers tend to be more about the gameplay which in most cases is the right call. Then there is the tiring debate about what constitutes quality game story telling which means different things to different people. Which is why I don't really like to talk about or debate story merits in video games. All I can really say is when I play a game whether I'm hooking into the character and want to continue to find out what happens to that character or I dig being that character. Mass Effect has high immersion for me. Red Dead Redemption had high immersion for me. Fallout has high immersion for me. Hell MW 2 had high immersion for me because of the combat, the music, and the atmopshere. The story is garbage but I was immersed as hell and in the moment. So yes immersion does matter to me. And it means different things to different people. And it matters more the longer the game is.

It's why Crackdown never attracted me. Or Just Cause. Even though I get why others really dug those games.

I'm not against story. No one in this said we're against story.

I brought up a point and that being that many western rpg fanatics tend to overlook flaws, and call completely average games great purely because of story on a very regular basis.

Sure, other genre fanatics do the same. But this comes with the territory with wrpg fans (yes, I am an wrpg fan, and no, I did not want to start a wrpg vs jrpg war).

Like The Witcher. I tried out that game, and the combat was ass. Combat is a big part of a game like this and it was undeniably awful. So inquire about it and I get..."yeahhhhhhhh, the gameplay's not too great, but the story!" and then you get people listing Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines as being one of the best rpgs ever, when it plays like total dog shit, is a half made game, and bug ridden at that. Why? Oh. The writing. It is a dissonance in my head.

It's not story can't exist, it's that story should never take a precedent over gameplay. It's not that we think all games should be the same, it's that we are operating on completely different gaming philosophies here. Story can add to a game, but I don't it ever -- ever -- makes a game, with few exceptions.

This makes the contingent split hard because I'm the dungeon crawlin', lootin' tootin', numbers obsessed, how can i customize my guys numbers NOW, oh shit this dungeon has traps,  type of rpg player. I play rpgs for the scale of adventure, the clash of bone and steel, and player involvement you don't get from other genres. So it makes it hard to take suggestions from a oh man, I loved the characters, the story was great but the gameplay sucked, wow this game is more buggy than my grandma's corpse but the writing is SO. GOOD. type of rpg player's suggestions seriously. Whether it's from a j or w fan.

But no where in there did I say that I couldn't like story, it's just not what I emphasize. Much like how I see graphics.

So I'll prefer the Fallout's and Dragon Age's over the Vamp: Bloodlines and The Witcher's (though I'm excited for 2). By the same token, I also any prefer Shin Megami Tensei and Valkyrie Profile 2, Etrian Odyssey, Breath of Fire 5 over anything Final Fantasy has put out in the past 10 years aside from X-2 and XII. Sometimes I enjoy these games because I like the characters, or the themes, and or the symbolism, or the general writing, especially in SMT's case, but I never -- ever -- act like it's the only reason.

Not mad or anything, just clarifying something that probably needed a bit more grease n' spit.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 29, 2011, 07:02:55 PM
GR, Please tell me which RPGs had amazing stories so I can laugh at you

Relativity.

then you get people listing Vampire: the Masquerade: Bloodlines as being one of the best rpgs ever, when it plays like total dog shit, is a half made game, and bug ridden at that. Why? Oh. The writing.

And the voice acting, and the characters, and the world, and the player choice within quests and dialogs, and the depth of customization.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 29, 2011, 07:09:16 PM
The latest rpg game that I got involved with in lately that is exactly that I'm describing is Nier. Oh man, I spent 20 bucks on that thing and still regret it.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on October 29, 2011, 07:43:29 PM
(http://www.kotowari.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/baal.png)

look at those hot digit :o

(http://www.wuphonsreach.org/Games/Fallout3/Vault101-Baby/SPECIAL-Book.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9vgbh.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2LfL-oWlAig/Tfo5AeDEyGI/AAAAAAAACGc/DgjwSmBvX6o/s1600/BGMain%2B2011-04-13%2Bcharacter%2Bsheet.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/K2eJG.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/o234Q.gif)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on October 29, 2011, 11:00:44 PM
My favorite Dragon Age O side quest is the one where the Dalish hunter in training wants to get with this woman but she ignores him because hes not a full hunter- one of the options as a male character is to go to the woman and convince her to have sex with you- and then you can go back to the hunter in training and rub his face in it. BesT QUest IN GAME
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on October 30, 2011, 05:52:42 AM
Vampire: Masquerade isn't circle jerked on because of its writing alone, that's completely disingenous.  The player customization, development, the role playing opportunities, the atmosphere (thick as fog), the choice and their consequences coupled with the fact that yes, the writing is usually pretty damned good, makes Masquerade considered one of the best.  I consider it so.

not to mention many of the bugs are taken care of in fan patches, i think the newest was just released a few months ago.


In these games i see the combat, which many see as the gameplay itself, just another extension of the roleplaying mechanics.  no different from dialogue, exploration, learning about the world through your own, or sneaking, or what have you. 


When you take a look at the so called canon of WRPG's holistically without singling out their combat (Fallout 1's combat is slow, dumb, boring), it's going to fare much better.  There's no context to it, but thankfully even crappy combat systems like Fallout 1-3's have the context of your character, his skills, where you are, the meaningful qualities attributed to beyond just 'pew pew pew'


Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: chronovore on November 01, 2011, 06:53:52 PM
Just picked this up yesterday, because of this thread, and because I want to try a WRPG.

My last one was probably Baldur's Gate on PC.

And because my only other RPG experience recently was Dark Souls, which is like nailing your dick to a door, then slamming it. (And enjoying it.)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on November 01, 2011, 06:58:01 PM
If you like it you can get the expansion as DLC- the expansion was really good. Also grab Wardens Keep and Return to Ost DLC for the easy to get nice LOOT
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: chronovore on November 01, 2011, 07:08:00 PM
When I was looking for the pics in the WDYB thread, I saw that for a few yankee dollars more on Amazon, I could have had the full collection, all DLC and such.  :lol 

I'll see about those DLC though. I'm not averse to getting gear to make life easier.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 01, 2011, 08:20:32 PM
So how are you liking it chrono? Whatever you do never pick up 2...
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: chronovore on November 01, 2011, 08:44:00 PM
So how are you liking it chrono? Whatever you do never pick up 2...

I've just bought it; I'm actually wrapping up a Hard run on Enslaved before starting anything else. What's wrong with Dragon Age 2?
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 01, 2011, 08:52:44 PM
Oh man I cant type that up on my phone I think. Will do that at work :)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on November 01, 2011, 09:19:38 PM
I finished Dragon Age 2, it's not what I wanted and sometimes it makes me mad, but it's not the worst game in the world.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 02, 2011, 12:01:19 AM
long rant ahead

I kind of look at story in rpgs in one of two ways:  it can either enhance or detract from a gameplay experience but won't solely define it.

When I talk about gameplay in rpgs, I'm not JUST talking about combat.  Lots of different things go into gameplay in an rpg that might not matter in other games:  obviously the combat and any strategy involved with it, exploration, "immersion" and all that other flavorful crap.

Let's look at two games from the past several years as examples.  Both games are sequels and both have mostly shitty stories, but one is a game that I have replayed 3 times and another is one that I've struggled to complete in multiple attempts now.  I'm talking about Fire Emblem: Radiant Dawn and Dragon Age 2.

Fire Emblem: RD
+ fuck awesome combat and strategy
+ sequel that i guess appeals to some people's sense of nostalgia and spiky haired protagonists
- stupid fucking story
- the character interaction (support) system from the previous game has been watered down in this one and is incredibly generic, adding nothing to the character's backstories
- no real sense of exploration, game is incredibly linear

DA2
- dumbed down/MOAR EXTREME combat from the first game
- instead of exploring a vast country in many awesome locales, you're stuck mainly in one city for the whole fucking game
- game continues stupid focus on icky relationships (I GOTS TO FUCK ALL DEM HOES)
- fucking demi likes this, nuff said
- dumb story
+ Varric

Both games have kind of stupid stories.  However, Fire Emblem is really ALL ABOUT THE FIGHTS, and knows this.  It's not stupid enough to try and put the story on a pedestal or anything and is content to let the combat be the star of the game.  In DA2, not only is the combat and strategy WORSE than it's predecessor and therefore not able to cover up a mediocre story, it's actually saddled with an actively BAD story that it tries to make the focus of the game.  I don't care about crafting the story of the Champion of Kirkwall... I don't care about his/her family, don't care about the champion's dealings with the Qunari, ruling noble of the city, or the templars and mages.  DON'T. CARE.  Yet the game wants me to be focused on this at least as much as I'm focusing on the gameplay, which is like a double shot of suck.

tl;dr version:  story in rpgs can either support good/great gameplay or just be the rancid cherry on top of the shit sundae of bad gameplay you're suffering through.  It will never, in my opinion, be the most important thing about an rpg, and I am instantly wary of people who claim that it is.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on November 02, 2011, 03:41:04 AM
what's wrong with Dragon Age 2?  ???

well, just, well, it's existence is just wrong, almost a joke.  it's basically the kind of nightmare game that real RPG devs would make as a joke, like, "so what if all of the shittiest new design trends were just focused into one game?? it could be a lifeless, 12 year old pandering cranium reducing shit fest put together with all the most cynical PR platitudes you could throw and developed entirely from focus groups making sure we hit the perfect demographics (of stupid people)"

if you say you played Baldur's Gate (praise be to you) and Dark Soul's (and to you), then you'll probably laugh at DA:II.   Dragon Age 1 is the better bet, but it's not fucking Baldur's Gate, and nothing is Demon's Souls.

Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: chronovore on November 02, 2011, 04:51:19 AM
That's funny; I would have assumed that story is the primary driving force for RPG players.

To me, not being an RPG fan, from the outside it has always looked like RPGs are stories which are progressed by pitting your character's spreadsheet of damage and HP against the opposition's spreadsheet. That appears to be some residual pencil-and-paper RPG snobbery on my part.

It's interesting, story's secondary nature, in that the same argument can be made for just about any game genre. Sure, audio- or visual-novel, or text-adventure genres would be hard pressed to defend story as secondary, but in other cases, it really should be. Must be secondary, possibly.

In other threads, particularly about Open World Games, there's been lengthy discussion about the degree to which story is important. Some people dismiss Crackdown out of hand, because it's "story" is basically nonexistent. GTA IV gets praise for its story, and then an equal measure of scorn largely to counter the degree of hyperbolic praise lavished on the story by critics. It's not Oscar-worthy. It's just noteworthy in that it's much more cinematic and better executed than you'd normally find in a game. Hell, it's even more consistent and unified than previous GTA stories!

And then there's Dark Souls, which is an RPG, and as far as I can tell after 40 hours, has no story.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 02, 2011, 05:36:24 AM
Dragon Age 2.

Possibly the worst sequel and biggest joke of a game that I have played this generation, or maybe ever. If there ever was a game that was the equivalent of the developer taking a big dump on it's fanbase, this was it.
Dragon Age was Bioware's 'hardcore' rpg, the spiritual successor to Baldurs Gate. At least that's how it was marketed. It definately was Biowares most ambitious and deep RPG in the past 10 years. It wasn't perfect, but it had a vast fantasy world, combat that was about positioning your team and lots of things to do. It was a bit over the top with the blood, and mages were a bit overpowered, but it was a true old school WRPG in many senses and thats why many people loved it.

Now Mass Effect was Bioware's action rpg series, which they hugely streamlined into Mass Effect 2 making it more of a shooter with some story. No more exploration, just straight up story and shooting in small locales. Now imagine that Dragon Age, is Bioware's attempt to streamline this deep RPG into a hack and slash game just like they did with ME, but with a quarter the resources they made available for Mass Effect 2. This worked in ME2 because it was already an RPG lite (although people might have hoped they would actually bother to make it deeper in the sequel) but with Dragon Age 2, which was supposed to be this hardcore game it doesn't work out at all.

You no longer can position your squad before an encounter, since enemies come in waves from all directions. An encounter is no longer a strategic endeavour but simply you bashing buttons ala DMC but with a cooldown on your abilities. This is everything RPG fans didn't want, it's god afwul. It's like if Polyphony turned GT into Ridge Racer. I mean on some level it might work for someone, but not to the millions that like the first game.

What makes things much worse is that DA2 is a rushed budget game that would have been more fitting for a 2nd or 3rd expansion pack, not a standalone product. The whole game plays out in one city, which isn't bad in itself as that can be made very big and sprawling and interesting. But it's not. Please don't think I'm kidding, but dungeons and locales get reused more often in DA2 then they do in a shitty Korean free to play MMO. It's absolutely horrible. When playing DA2 you often will think it was made by 5 guys in a basement, who used a cheap level designer and finished the game in 2 months. Some kind of insane fan made mod, not a standalone sequel.

The game really has nothing going for it, there is no variety, horrible combat, horrible graphics. Playing this has made me lose almost all faith in Bioware being able to make an actual RPG especially since they keep defending this huge turd.

Also worth noting is that Dragon Age 1 was and is the best selling Bioware game, but Dragon Age 2 while it sold more units in the first week dipped under DA1 sales after that and flatlined. The reason for it's flatline? Word of mouth, see the 4.4 metacritic score...



Please read this great write up:
http://www.actionbutton.net/?p=942

or this nice thread:
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=447613

(http://i52.tinypic.com/23mtvnm.jpg)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: chronovore on November 02, 2011, 07:51:53 AM
Thanks for the insight. I'll avoid it at all costs. It'll be nice to have a sequel to avoid. Wish I was smart enough to have had done that with Star Wars Episode I.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: tiesto on November 02, 2011, 08:40:38 AM
I agree with what a lot of other people are saying about stories in RPG... they can be either good or bad, but don't solely define the experience for me. I'd take a game with bad story and good gameplay over the opposite, most of the time.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on November 02, 2011, 10:51:26 AM
Varric is awesome bro character
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 02, 2011, 11:00:32 AM
Ok Varric is the only redeeming feauture of DA2.

But I wouldnt play through the game just to see more of him (and I didnt).
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on November 02, 2011, 11:04:09 AM
I dunno I think youre being pretty harsh, it's no DAO, but it's also no Gothic 4. I used to be all grr about DA2 but after finishing it I didn't hate it totally. I think approaching the game academically it's easy to tear it down but aside from trampling expectations and making poor design choices it's still no Two Worlds
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 02, 2011, 11:43:28 AM
I think you're cutting it way too much slack.

But the fact you are comparing it down to bigger turds just shows how terribad of a sequel it is.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the original imho. How can you defend the constant reuse of assets, which is borderline criminal when you consider games from smaller studios don't even do it that much? What even made you finish it? To me it felt like some fan made Neverwinter Nights scenario you could download for free.

Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 02, 2011, 11:48:23 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: fomalhaut on November 02, 2011, 12:19:52 PM
BUTTON = AWESOME
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on November 02, 2011, 12:23:26 PM
I think you're cutting it way too much slack.

But the fact you are comparing it down to bigger turds just shows how terribad of a sequel it is.

It has absolutely nothing to do with the original imho. How can you defend the constant reuse of assets, which is borderline criminal when you consider games from smaller studios don't even do it that much? What even made you finish it? To me it felt like some fan made Neverwinter Nights scenario you could download for free.



Sir, half the games I play are deemed C/C+'s by gamers at large- its clear where I come from ;)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Van Cruncheon on November 02, 2011, 12:53:04 PM
heck, i'd give the original DAO a B-/C+, and DA2 is quite a bit worse than it

</tomchick>
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on November 02, 2011, 03:10:15 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hMcVZQI6ybw

That video is almost unimaginably depressing.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 02, 2011, 03:35:11 PM
heck, i'd give the original DAO a B-/C+, and DA2 is quite a bit worse than it

</tomchick>

I'd give the orginal DAO probably a B+ and can't even rate the second, because I can't fucking make myself play it.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Third on November 02, 2011, 03:44:01 PM
I've played the PC version for 15 minutes. One of the worst games I've ever played. I really hate the animation in this game. And the faces are horrible too. Couldn't stand it.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on November 02, 2011, 04:46:17 PM
WHAT GAME IS THAT
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Great Rumbler on November 02, 2011, 05:22:11 PM
WHAT GAME IS THAT

Hearts of Iron?
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: iconoclast on November 02, 2011, 07:42:11 PM
long rant ahead

I agree with what you're saying, but you're comparing a story-driven RPG to a turn-based strategy game, and they are different things. When I say stories are the point of an RPG, I'm not talking about games like Knights in the Nightmare, R-Type Tactics, Fire Emblem, etc., because those games are about strategic gameplay first and foremost - it makes sense to not give a shit about story if you're playing those games. But what I don't understand is why people are playing story-driven games like Final Fantasy (just an example) if they don't care about the story? Traditional RPGs like that have very little strategic depth, so why bother?
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: pilonv1 on November 02, 2011, 08:23:20 PM
(http://www.kotowari.org/wp-content/uploads/2009/02/baal.png)

look at those hot digit :o

(http://www.wuphonsreach.org/Games/Fallout3/Vault101-Baby/SPECIAL-Book.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/9vgbh.jpg)

(http://2.bp.blogspot.com/-2LfL-oWlAig/Tfo5AeDEyGI/AAAAAAAACGc/DgjwSmBvX6o/s1600/BGMain%2B2011-04-13%2Bcharacter%2Bsheet.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/K2eJG.jpg)

(http://i.imgur.com/o234Q.gif)
(http://a248.e.akamai.net/www.direct2drive.com/images/product/screenshots/8323/normal/screenshot2.jpg)
:omg

(http://www.fm-base.co.uk/forum/attachments/football-manager-2012-discussion/197186d1317863665-football-manager-2012-arsenal-thread-wojciech-szczesny-profile_-attributes-.png)
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on November 02, 2011, 09:00:27 PM
long rant ahead

I agree with what you're saying, but you're comparing a story-driven RPG to a turn-based strategy game, and they are different things. When I say stories are the point of an RPG, I'm not talking about games like Knights in the Nightmare, R-Type Tactics, Fire Emblem, etc., because those games are about strategic gameplay first and foremost - it makes sense to not give a shit about story if you're playing those games. But what I don't understand is why people are playing story-driven games like Final Fantasy (just an example) if they don't care about the story? Traditional RPGs like that have very little strategic depth, so why bother?

Because many rpgs with strategic depth are story-driven. SMT is story-driven. Valkyrie Profile 2 is story-driven.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 02, 2011, 10:06:58 PM
Dragon Quarter had a non-shitty story, too.  Shame that due to it's difficulty and non-stereotypical uguu-ness the devs had to APOLOGIZE.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on November 02, 2011, 10:21:03 PM
:bow BOF: DQ
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 02, 2011, 10:23:28 PM
Probably the best rpg from last gen?  Can't think of any that I found more enjoyable/challenging off the top of my head.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on November 03, 2011, 12:09:06 AM
I think VP2 is probably better.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 03, 2011, 12:12:19 AM
I dunno, I felt like DQ was a more complete game.  Better replay value, production values, etc.  Then again, it's been years since I've played either.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on November 03, 2011, 12:15:12 AM
I think VP2 had the dungeons going for it, the most. Also DAT BATTLE SYSTEM :drool
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Human Snorenado on November 03, 2011, 12:22:40 AM
The people who freaked out over the VP2 battle system always made me scratch my head.  Shit was good but wasn't THAT good, whereas DQ was all like OMFG YESSSSSS.  Plus it was way more challenging.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: Himu on November 03, 2011, 12:24:50 AM
For me it was sealstones. I like different variables when it comes to combat, so going in battle with pre-fixed sealstone variables made combat so much more interesting. Plus, it was basically a strategy rpg. Game owned. BOF: DQ was similar in that its combat was very strategy oriented, but sealstones made me crazy over VP2.
Title: Re: Is Dragon Age: Origins one of my favorite games ever?
Post by: MrAngryFace on November 03, 2011, 01:19:36 AM
VP2 is brilliant