THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: FlameOfCallandor on January 04, 2007, 04:09:23 PM
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I guess the topic of minimum wage is coming up again and I figured evilbore was a good a place as any to have this discussion.
I think companies need to start paying a respectable wages which is more than minimum wage, but I dont like the idea of government interfering to set minimum wage as a "standard of living." After all its supposed to be the minimum someone in the country should be paid. I really dont think burger flippers deserve more.
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HELL YEAH
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To live. In 1960's the living wage was 10 cents higher then the minimum wage, right now it's $4 higher. It doesn't adjust according to inflation so that politicians can make this an issue for idiots to get upset about you worthless prick.
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I love how FoC is trying to imply that increasing the minimum wage would only help fast food workers. ::)
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I love how FoC is trying to imply that increasing the minimum wage would only help fast food workers. ::)
Nope never did i imply that. Try again.
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What would you do without the burger flippers? Flip your own? By going to these places to eat its clear you can barely wipe your own ass. This suggests that burger flippers are at the very least, a requirement of a society so focused on fast living and fast food.
As such, their wages should go up to keep even with the cost of living in any particular area. Granted they shouldnt be making bank, but when burger jobs stop paying enough to pay the bills for people who dont have everything handed to them on a silver platter...well lets just say all of us will be eating at home more often or subject ourselves to longer lines and poor quality food service.
These people handle meat, we should pay them ENOUGH.
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They should raise the National Minimum Wage to $8.00.
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I guess what it comes down to is i just dont like the idea of the goverment telling each state what they should be doing. Im more open to a state minumum wage increase. The cost of living is pretty vast in the country.
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Cook your own food! >:(
I wouldn't say burger flippers should only be paid $5.15, but I certainly don't agree that they should be paid $10/hr either.
Lets stop being politically correct for a minute and be real: burger flipping is not a career. I'm sorry. If you're doing that at 40 years old you shouldn't be expecting to live well off anyway.
18 year olds doing that for summer/semester money seems to be more of the norm than older people doing it for a life.
If I had my way I'd ban all fast food in the country and just have local groceries sell all the burger ingrediants. It's un-American of them when they refuse to just give me a pound of chalupa bread so I can make my own damn sandwich. >:(
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Most states dont listen to the National Minimum Wage anyway since the current rate is pretty silly. WA is at like 7.50 right now if not a little more.
National Min Wage has become a weird bargaining chip in politics. It going up or staying doesnt actually affect anyone so much as it supposedly makes a 'statement' about how a political party feels about Rich vs Poor.
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PD: I think when youre all grown up and know how much life actually COSTS you can comment on how much OTHER people should be making.
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Which is rediculous, because I can think of so many more regulations that people (poor and middle class) need. Like Healthcare!
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There shouldn't be a national minimum wage. It should be set by the individual states, maybe even down to the county level.
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I go to the doctor like once every 10 year, if anything MOST people go to the doctor too often.
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PD: I think when youre all grown up and know how much life actually COSTS you can comment on how much OTHER people should be making.
HAY I put screws into bolts and get $30 an hour thanks to the UAW. I wonder why Ford is going under lol
Tsk tsk MAF, where is your sarcasm meter today
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I guess what it comes down to is i just dont like the idea of the goverment telling each state what they should be doing. Im more open to a state minumum wage increase. The cost of living is pretty vast in the country.
But the fact that your thread title questions why people who earn the minimum wage should have more than $5.15 an hour is disturbing. The minimum wage needs increased. End of story.
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There shouldn't be a national minimum wage. It should be set by the individual states, maybe even down to the county level.
Agreed. Standards of living vary greatly by area in this country.
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I don't know what to make out of this thread, can someone help me?
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tsc tsc.
I feel bad for some of the people who work there who are adults though - must be hard trying to get a job without a college education/degree when your that old.
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tsc tsc.
I feel bad for some of the people who work there who are adults though - must be hard trying to get a job without a college education/degree when your that old.
Not really. There are more jobs than ones that involve being a burger flipper, ya?
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for some there really isn't something beyond that.
I make more than half the minimum wage :dance. Besides the adults here, I'm pretty sure cloud makes a good amount of money an hour for retail as well.
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I make 6.15 per hour or something at pizza hut.
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Being 'old' AND under-educated excludes you from almost every non-degree job. Why old dudes dont just learn to be a bartender is beyond my understanding tho. That'd be awesome.
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I make 6.15 per hour or something at pizza hut.
The minimum wage was just raised dude, to like 7 dollars look into that. I make 15 an hour :heart.
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I'm gonna own a pub when I'm 60. It will ROCK.
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I go to the doctor like once every 10 year, if anything MOST people go to the doctor too often.
National crisis averted. MAF declares that people dont need health insurance because they go to the doctor too much
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MAF is right, you are stupid.
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I make 6.15 per hour or something at pizza hut.
The minimum wage was just raised dude, to like 7 dollars look into that. I make 15 an hour :heart.
I make about the same, but I have a lot of experience and lucked into a really good job. I just often wish it wasn't retail, but something else.
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About 2% of adult workers make minimum wage so it seems like a non-issue that does not affect many workers. However low skilled workers without much education (or philosophy majors) usually have to work terrible jobs and should be compensated decently. The state should establish some base minimum that is respectable.
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No, they really shouldn't. But now in Ohio they make $6.85.
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$18.50 an hour working at mcdonalds... :lol
You guys are getting royally screwed with wages.
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18.50? Management? Shift something? Where do you live? San Fran?
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Ultimately, how many times do you really have to flip burgers in the first place? Just once per burger. It's a fucking coush job; be lucky I pay you anything, you freeloading do-nothing slack-workers.
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I don't think overly educated but largely useless and undisciplined college grads should get over $5.15/hour, either.
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Won't the minimum wage be upped to $7.50 within a few days? It is part of the Dem's 100 hour plan and Bush has implied he wont veto it.
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Being 'old' AND under-educated excludes you from almost every non-degree job. Why old dudes dont just learn to be a bartender is beyond my understanding tho. That'd be awesome.
I'm sort of old I guess at 32 and a bartender. Did it in college. Dropped out of a Philosophy major when I decided that everything that could be said about the Human condition had been said in the Sermon on the Mount. Still doing it today. We actually make less than minimum wage being tipped employees. On a good night with tips you can make an obscene amount of money. On a bad day though, it's ugly. Have enough bad nights in a month and you're fucked. You really learn how to budget.
Anyway, minimum wage. It should be called a living wage and be raised. Period.
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That's my argument though, minimum wage isnt a living wage. It's a minimum.
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The problem is if the minimum wage goes up by a larger amount, stuff like the .99 cent menu at MCd's is gone.
They will adjust prices to match what they have to pay employee's
I'm all for people making a fair wage, but it's gonna skew everything else, and the government will wiggle more taxes out of us.
It's fucked situation that os beyond broken at this point.
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That's my argument though, minimum wage isnt a living wage. It's a minimum.
I understand, but shouldn't they be the same thing? If a living wage is the wage required to live on, how can any wage below that be acceptable?
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Most states dont listen to the National Minimum Wage anyway since the current rate is pretty silly. WA is at like 7.50 right now if not a little more.
Hi! I live in KY, which means that I will never, EVER, get more than $5.15 an hour. EVER. There are no plans to rage the wage, and this sucks.
National Minimum Wage? Uhh, yeah, raise that shit. NOW.
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Should minimum wage be a subsistence wage though; or should there be incentive to move to different jobs, higher positions, better education, etc? If there are no available jobs I can understand the argument, but then why not implement policies that create higher-classes of jobs than flipping burgers?
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gee, can EVERYBODY be a lawyer or a doctor or a space engineer? sorry, we NEED burger flippers and furniture lifters and auto parts salesmen and secretaries. There isn't a position as astronaut available for EVERYBODY who wants to be one.
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The problem is if the minimum wage goes up by a larger amount, stuff like the .99 cent menu at MCd's is gone.
Oh goodness no! What will we ever do! Where will we get our cancer at once the dollar menu is gone!
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The problem is if the minimum wage goes up by a larger amount, stuff like the .99 cent menu at MCd's is gone.
Oh goodness no! What will we ever do! Where will we get our cancer at once the dollar menu is gone!
It was one example, alot of things would go up in price.
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The problem is if the minimum wage goes up by a larger amount, stuff like the .99 cent menu at MCd's is gone.
Oh goodness no! What will we ever do! Where will we get our cancer at once the dollar menu is gone!
It was one example, alot of things would go up in price.
Well, what did you mean by larger amount? Going to 7 or 725 or 715 or whatever wouldn't cause a cataclysm. If someone like McDonalds did shitcan their dollar menu, it would be out of PROTEST at being unhappy to pay more, not because the raise put them in financial shambles.
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gee, can EVERYBODY be a lawyer or a doctor or a space engineer? sorry, we NEED burger flippers and furniture lifters and auto parts salesmen and secretaries. There isn't a position as astronaut available for EVERYBODY who wants to be one.
Secretaries can be paid well, depending on who they work for. There's also a career path there to office manager. Do we need burger flippers? Sure, but there's a continuous influx of new high school and college-age kids who can use money on that level. Personally I'd think that encouraging upward mobility would be better than enforcing a low-skill, low-demand, underclass status-quo, but I'm not a Socialist.
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The problem is if the minimum wage goes up by a larger amount, stuff like the .99 cent menu at MCd's is gone.
Oh goodness no! What will we ever do! Where will we get our cancer at once the dollar menu is gone!
It was one example, alot of things would go up in price.
Well, what did you mean by larger amount? Going to 7 or 725 or 715 or whatever wouldn't cause a cataclysm. If someone like McDonalds did shitcan their dollar menu, it would be out of PROTEST at being unhappy to pay more, not because the raise put them in financial shambles.
$5.15 going to even $6 would be fine, anything over that and companies would squirm.
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Personally I'd think that encouraging upward mobility would be better than enforcing a low-skill, low-demand, underclass status-quo.
Yes! Because encouraging kids to aim for something that statistics would prove not all of them would end up getting is such a better idea than offering an alternative that at least gives one a true living wage and something called stability. ::)
No one in support of a higher minimum wage is asking for a handout. Just being able to eventually manage to live off of such a wage without gasping for air in the United States of America really shouldn't be asking for much.
But thanks to the corporate cocksuckers of this fine nation, the rich get richer while the poor would be lucky to even get close to staying afloat. And the middle class? What's that?
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lol, Diablos.
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gee, and we should have all office managers and no secretaries just because people have ambition? Sorry; we already have too many bureaucratic cogs -- we should start paying the people that actually DO the services closer to what they're worth, and start paying the bureaucrats (of which I am one), astronauts, investment bankers and lawyers LESS.
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sadly, though, raising the minimum wage doesn't matter, because inflation will increase correspondingly regardless.
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I'm not opposed to paying people what they're worth though, so don't cast what I'm saying in that light. Totally different issue.
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I personally see a burger flipper as more valuable than a middle-management bureaucrat, an investment banker, or a lawyer -- at least a burger flipper PREPARES FOOD FOR ME. The other ones? They're leeches. Given that most of a position's perceived "value" is purely cultural/societal and not grounded in any practical contribution to society at large or in the amount of human heat energy expended in its pursuit, I'm all for normalizing salaries and relegating degrees to second-tier consideration when evaluating an employee's worth.
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I go to the doctor like once every 10 year, if anything MOST people go to the doctor too often.
Dumbest thing I've seen in awhile.
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I go to the doctor like once every 10 year, if anything MOST people go to the doctor too often.
Dumbest thing I've seen in awhile.
I haven't been to a doctor in like 6 years and I have COMPLETELY AWESOME healthcare that's pretty much free with free prescriptions and free tame doctors.
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Some people go to the doctor for ANYTHING, its pretty silly.
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The healthcare industry is in such ruins exactly because people don't see the doctor enough; or don't take the necessary steps to ensure the well-being of their health. People just wait willy-nilly until an emergency or some other debilitating problem arises in which not only have you fucked yourself over, but you've fucked over the hospital, the doctors, and many a taxpayer. One of these days, people are going to realize preventive care is the way to go. Obviously, there are exceptions. And I'm not suggesting that people arrive en masse at their local clinic or hospital over simple things like hangnails or anal fissures(Saint...), but instead develop and maintain a routine with your doctor in which you are required to see your doctor set amount of times a year and complete any tests ordered. In some states, there are even incentives in following through with your care.
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Doctors cant make them be healthy, and they wont do it on their own. Sounds like a personal problem. I have healthcare, but I take it upon myself to remain healthy and keep doctor visits to a minimum.
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I thought the health care industry was fucked because people couldn't afford to go to the doctor enough. My mom has a half dozen little problems she'd like to have looked at, but she's kinda stuck waiting until something major happens because if she went to the doctor for every little thing, she wouldn't be able to afford things like food. And electricity. ANd she's pretty stable middle class, with a degree of healthcare.
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People not being able to afford healthcare when they NEED it IS a problem. But people going all willy nilly just CAUSE they can afford it clogs up clinics like crazy.
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Doctors cant make them be healthy, and they wont do it on their own. Sounds like a personal problem. I have healthcare, but I take it upon myself to remain healthy and keep doctor visits to a minimum.
I never said Doctors could magically make a person healthly. I'm simply saying that doctors can oftentime prevent, or at least mitigate, impending disaster. Waiting till the last moment does nobody any good.
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I personally see a burger flipper as more valuable than a middle-management bureaucrat, an investment banker, or a lawyer -- at least a burger flipper PREPARES FOOD FOR ME. The other ones? They're leeches. Given that most of a position's perceived "value" is purely cultural/societal and not grounded in any practical contribution to society at large or in the amount of human heat energy expended in its pursuit, I'm all for normalizing salaries and relegating degrees to second-tier consideration when evaluating an employee's worth.
I'd buy that argument if burger flipping took skill or ability, or time, focus/attention, or responsibility, or any objective measure through which we may justify rank; but as I mentioned before it's not even like a burger needs to be flipped a bunch of times. Even a philosophy major could do it.
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Clogging up the clinics with stubbed toes ALSO doesnt do anyone any good.
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Clogging up the clinics with stubbed toes ALSO doesnt do anyone any good.
If you're replying to me then clearly you have a reading comprehension problem.
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Doctors cant make them be healthy, and they wont do it on their own. Sounds like a personal problem. I have healthcare, but I take it upon myself to remain healthy and keep doctor visits to a minimum.
I never said Doctors could magically make a person healthly. I'm simply saying that doctors can oftentime prevent, or at least mitigate, impending disaster. Waiting till the last moment does nobody any good.
Except people have to wait until the last minute because they usually don't have any real choice, when it comes to finances.
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Lonestar: And youre clearly a distinguished mentally-challenged fellow. This is going wonderfully!
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You know Drinky, you're free to take the salary, which you are undeserving of, and give it to some random burger flipper.
Even a philosophy major could do it.
:(
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I personally see a burger flipper as more valuable than a middle-management bureaucrat, an investment banker, or a lawyer -- at least a burger flipper PREPARES FOOD FOR ME. The other ones? They're leeches. Given that most of a position's perceived "value" is purely cultural/societal and not grounded in any practical contribution to society at large or in the amount of human heat energy expended in its pursuit, I'm all for normalizing salaries and relegating degrees to second-tier consideration when evaluating an employee's worth.
I'd buy that argument if burger flipping took skill or ability, or time, focus/attention, or responsibility, or any objective measure through which we may justify rank; but as I mentioned before it's not even like a burger needs to be flipped a bunch of times. Even a philosophy major could do it.
I suppose the responsiblity comes into play when they don't do something to your food that could make you seriously ill. Don't fuck with the food service industry. I don't handle food, but I could seriously fuck with your drink, if I wanted. Be polite to us, tip well, and we will seriously take care of you.
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sadly, though, raising the minimum wage doesn't matter, because inflation will increase correspondingly regardless.
As far as I'm concerned, the minimum wage should've been raised to $7-8 like 5 years ago, and today we should be discussing raising it even higher than that. But we're so far behind that it probably won't make a difference, largely in part due to inflation as you said... however, a higher minimum wage is better than nothing.
It would be nice if we could have a system where the minimum wage would always have to be raised to a certain level to match inflation. Realistically, I don't know if this would work... you may know if it would or wouldn't, though. So correct me if this is a bad idea :P
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I'd buy that argument if burger flipping took skill or ability, or time, focus/attention, or responsibility, or any objective measure through which we may justify rank; but as I mentioned before it's not even like a burger needs to be flipped a bunch of times. Even a philosophy major could do it.
I suppose the responsiblity comes into play when they don't do something to your food that could make you seriously ill. Don't fuck with the food service industry. I don't handle food, but I could seriously fuck with your drink, if I wanted. Be polite to us, tip well, and we will seriously take care of you.
That's fine--in as much as understanding the commonplace reality of this can make clearly illegal and immoral extortion "fine" in one's mind--but note that actually fucking with someone's food in a way that jeopardizes their health could, in a highly-regulated community, lead to the person doing the food tampering's imprisonment and possible banishment from food, restaurant, and bar professions entirely; not to mention high fines and possible closure of the establishment in question. Don't fuck with people in food service? Fine. Don't fuck with people's health either.
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I'd buy that argument if burger flipping took skill or ability, or time, focus/attention, or responsibility, or any objective measure through which we may justify rank; but as I mentioned before it's not even like a burger needs to be flipped a bunch of times. Even a philosophy major could do it.
I suppose the responsiblity comes into play when they don't do something to your food that could make you seriously ill. Don't fuck with the food service industry. I don't handle food, but I could seriously fuck with your drink, if I wanted. Be polite to us, tip well, and we will seriously take care of you.
That's fine--in as much as understanding the commonplace reality of this can make clearly illegal and immoral extortion "fine" in one's mind--but note that actually fucking with someone's food in a way that jeopardizes their health could, in a highly-regulated community, lead to the person doing the food tampering's imprisonment and possible banishment from food, restaurant, and bar professions entirely; not to mention high fines and possible closure of the establishment in question. Don't fuck with people in food service? Fine. Don't fuck with people's health either.
Sure, there are consequences to everything. But when did those ever outweigh the immediate situation/poor judgement/conflicting emotions that resulted in them? I'm not saying I condone that type of thing. I've never personally done it. It is a reality though. A little respect goes a long way, on both sides of the bar. We are forced to give it to the people we serve regardless of how we are treated.
All I am saying is that everyone deserves a living wage and respect as a human being. Burger flippers aren't lesser people. They just have a different job.
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Minimum wages should be set by regions (states/counties) due to fluxuation in standards of living throughout the Country.
Also, I think we can all agree, the national minimum wage does need to be raised, but probably not THAT much. Some people on GAF were saying "10 dollars an hour minimum wage! hyuck!" No. Just no, that would be disastrous and there are certain jobs that should just not be paid that much.
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Minimum wages should be set by regions (states/counties) due to fluxuation in standards of living throughout the Country.
Also, I think we can all agree, the national minimum wage does need to be raised, but probably not THAT much. Some people on GAF were saying "10 dollars an hour minimum wage! hyuck!" No. Just no, that would be disastrous and there are certain jobs that should just not be paid that much.
Dude, people on GAF say there's no consequence to raising the minimum wage TO ANY RATE WHATSOEVER. They're fucking crazy loonytoons.
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Minimum wages should be set by regions (states/counties) due to fluxuation in standards of living throughout the Country.
Also, I think we can all agree, the national minimum wage does need to be raised, but probably not THAT much. Some people on GAF were saying "10 dollars an hour minimum wage! hyuck!" No. Just no, that would be disastrous and there are certain jobs that should just not be paid that much.
Dude, people on GAF say there's no consequence to raising the minimum wage TO ANY RATE WHATSOEVER. They're fucking crazy loonytoons.
Agreed.
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It would be nice if we could have a system where the minimum wage would always have to be raised to a certain level to match inflation. Realistically, I don't know if this would work... you may know if it would or wouldn't, though. So correct me if this is a bad idea :P
Yes, that would work, why wouldn't it work?
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not everyone can go to college and receive the credentials to earn 40k a year.
that sad fact is, particularly in an economic paradigm that is moving towards the service industry, there are millions in this country, honest men and women with families, who are struggling on the fringes of homelessness.
i think the minimum wage should be raised a lot higher than what the dems are proposing.
i think productive, law-abiding american men and women deserve to live out their lives free from the pain of being poor.
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I agree. The minimum wage should have been at $7.25 years ago.
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i think productive, law-abiding american men and women deserve to live out their lives free from the pain of being poor.
I guess some people have different definitions of Productive.
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you mean "productive" as in "working your fucking ass off for 8 hours waiting on thanksless assholes and preparing food" or "productive" as in "sitting around sucking cock and hoping your script for 'Iron Man Adventures 4' gets picked up"
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Snap.
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Was that suppossed to be an insult to me?
B y the way, Waiting tables is alot more than minmum wage.
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Only if the tips are good. The first week smoking was made illegal in Ohio the bar I work in just died. One night, a Thursday night, in a college town, I made ten dollars. I shit you not.
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Yea, its hit or miss sometimes. The smoking ban law is a whole mess in itself.
I worked at a good mexican resturaunt and averaged $16 an hour. Pretty damn good considering wating tables requires no skill or education.
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It requires you to be able to multi-task. That's a skill. Patience could be called a skill.
We're picking back up again thank christ.
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Those arent skills.
Weilding is a skill. Plumping is a skill. Carpentry is a skill.
There are no skills required to be a waiter. Except speaking english i guess, which might be too much to ask from some people these days. ::)
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You must've had the friendliest most patient tables ever then if you don't consider those skills.
Or you were a shitty waiter.
What do you do now?
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Considering they money i made, i must have been a pretty good waiter.
Those arent skills whatever you say. Any dipshit can be a waiter. Hell, for a while we had a girl come to work on drugs and wait tables fine. All you do is bring people shit.
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I take back what I said earlier in the thread. I probably would fuck with your drink FOC. If your attitude here is indicative of how you treat servers that is.
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I was a server, what the hell are you talking about.
All im saying is anyone can do it.
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People tend to look at this issue backwards. Here's how I look at it:
Take an arbitrary year -- say, 1969. Minimum wage was $1.60/hr then; adjusted for inflation, that would be equivalent to roughly $8.90 today. And this is only taking overall inflation into account. If you factor in more "end-user" metrics like the CPI, the discrepancy is even greater, as several of the larger costs accounted for by the CPI (e.g., medical, housing, and tuition costs) have far outpaced general inflation. But ignoring these other issues and sticking with the strict inflation-adjusted figures cited:
The $1.60/hr paid to an employee in 1969 was, obviously, a certain percentage of a company's income (both gross and net). By all accounts, corporate revenue has skyrocketed, far outstripping inflation. Profits have also increased exponentially, both in absolute terms and as a percentage of total revenue. Let's assume (again arbitrarily) that the average minimum-wage-paying company's total expenditure on wage-based labor was 15% of revenue in 1969. Seeing as how profits -- and profit margins -- have greatly increased, how can it be argued (economically, not philosophically -- save it, Randroids :P) that wage-based labor costs have to shrink as a percentage of overall revenue and/or profits? Why should it not still be 15% of the now-larger pie the companies are eating? Why should the price of goods increase along with a mimimum wage correction when, even if it's increased to $8/hr, it will still be less as a percentage of revenue than what companies paid 35 years ago? I have never heard an adequate response to this question based on "traditional" economics. In fact, I feel that it is not answerable economically in the traditional sense (more on this below), but only philosophically. And when we delve into that realm, we find that the considerations of those who would perpetuate the status quo are both fundamentally illogical and nigh on inhumane. The system they advocate -- one of increased economic stratification and marginalization, where the bulk of the populace is increasingly unable to meet their most basic needs and is seeing their standard of living eroded annually -- is ultimately unsustainable.
The reason I put "traditional" in quotes above when asking for an economic explanation is because I am well aware that in the speculative economic paradigm we operate under, pressure is continually exerted on companies to maximize profits by investors whose sole motive is to increase the value of their shares. Thus, under such a system, it is perfectly understandable why a company would seek to reduce labor costs (as a percentage of revenue) even as its profits skyrocket: margins must perpetually increase in order to sate the rapacious appetites of shareholders. Labor costs make an easy target, because workers have little clout; such "savings" on labor are typically no longer achieved in the traditional manner (streamlining processes, economies of scale, increased mechanization etc.), but rather realized through outsourcing, the employment of illegal immigrants, and via organized campaigns by business consortiums to stagnate wages at the federal level.
It is for this very reason -- the pressure exerted by speculators -- that I personally believe that the entire speculative economy must be dismantled in favor of greater private ownership of companies. Private ownership, though fraught with the potential for its own abuses, does not exert the same pressures on businesses that a speculative market does. I fully believe that the speculative economy is one of the biggest con jobs ever perpetrated on the people of the world. It can only lead to certain ends, none of which are pleasant. The benefits of the speculative market (e.g., capital-raising) can be had through less socially harmful means. Note that this has nothing to do with capitalism, per se, only with the investment paradigm. They are not one and the same, despite seeming to be inextricably linked presently.
At the very least, there needs to be greater governmental regulation of corporate practices; there needs to be a point where "enough is enough" (re: profits). Ultimately, however, corporate insatiability is an outgrowth of a much larger societal issue: the lack of temperance. We had a speculative economy in the 60's as well, but its inherent ills have become exacerbated as our culture has changed. There was greater private ownership back then, too, which provided some balance. Believe it or not, there was a time when ostentatious wealth and disproportionate compensation was frowned upon, even in economic circles, and that was because the culture -- corporate, societal -- was different. The prevailing culture helped to rein in the excesses of the system. When those social proscriptions dissolved, there remained no effective check on wealth accumulation, and greed increasingly became justified under all sorts of clever guises until the present day, where it is essentially what actuates the system. Corporate social responsibility has become an afterthought, and when such concerns are brought to the fore, it is only in the most superficial and self-serving way.
In 50 years, we'll look back and wonder how we ever thought that the current features and trends in our economy and society at large would be sustainable in the long term. We're being hoodwinked.
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you mean "productive" as in "working your fucking ass off for 8 hours waiting on thanksless assholes and preparing food" or "productive" as in "sitting around sucking cock and hoping your script for 'Iron Man Adventures 4' gets picked up"
lol
exactly
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I take back what I said earlier in the thread. I probably would fuck with your drink FOC. If your attitude here is indicative of how you treat servers that is.
:rofl
I fucked with so many dickheads food and drinks...
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I wish i worked at a restaurant. The worst I have ever done is fucked with merchandise to the assholes buying it.
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you mean "productive" as in "working your fucking ass off for 8 hours waiting on thanksless assholes and preparing food"
Who wants to do that for the rest of their lives?
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Everyone here acts as if its hard to find a job that doesn't pay minimum wage. I have had 5 or 6 jobs in the past few years and only one paid minimum wage, and that was because I was still in High School.
I really dont know what kind of person is working minimum wage as a long term job. Even at fast food joints, people get promoted after a few months, unless your an idiot.
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you mean "productive" as in "working your fucking ass off for 8 hours waiting on thanksless assholes and preparing food"
Who wants to do that for the rest of their lives?
Nobody, but like I said, not everyone gets to be an astronaut or an investment banker. The world needs fry jockeys more than it needs NASA engineers.
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Where would humankind be without those double cheesburgers. ::)
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Yeah, it (the world) doesn't exactly need fry-jockeys in the first place, there's just a demand for them. But that doesn't mean you have to do it for the rest of your life--or if you choose to, there are career paths within that structure if you just bother to take the work seriously and do a good job.
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Really? I bet maybe 20% of all jobs about there are actually desirable, but we have 80% of humans lookin' for employment. Like I said, do the numbers: most folks simply ain't gonna be able to get a job they like -- at best, they'll just get a job they tolerate.
If there's a demand, then the world needs 'em. Just because you consider yourself above the position or consider it far too base to be meaningful doesn't stop it from being necessary. Personally, I don't think the world needs any more film students.
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Really? I bet maybe 20% of all jobs about there are actually desirable, but we have 80% of humans lookin' for employment. Like I said, do the numbers: most folks simply ain't gonna be able to get a job they like -- at best, they'll just get a job they tolerate.
People tolerate their jobs becuase it pays the bills. Not everyone can get their dream job, especially if it requires some kind of education or training that they are not able to get. Its just they way the world works.
If there's a demand, then the world needs 'em. Just because you consider yourself above the position or consider it far too base to be meaningful doesn't stop it from being necessary. Personally, I don't think the world needs any more film students.
The world doesnt need them, humans lived for thousands of years without burger flippers. The world does need scientists. And for the record I dont consider myself above anyone, so cut that shit out. I hever once claimed to be some awesome person. You are right, the world doesnt need any more films students, but that doesnt meant I'm not going to try and achieve a dream of mine for a long time.
APF said it better than me, very few people actually stay minimum wage for very long. If you do you probably have some outside problems that you need to get help with first.
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Really? I bet maybe 20% of all jobs about there are actually desirable, but we have 80% of humans lookin' for employment. Like I said, do the numbers: most folks simply ain't gonna be able to get a job they like -- at best, they'll just get a job they tolerate.
People tolerate their jobs becuase it pays the bills. Not everyone can get their dream job, especially if it requires some kind of education or training that they are not able to get. Its just they way the world works.
You simply restated what he wrote.
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Except my point was that not everyone deserves the same pay. Does anyone actually know a person, who has had a job for more than a year and makes mimimum wage and deserves more
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The world may not need film students, but I'd argue the world needs art. Or at least, it's more important than an over-abundance of unhealthy food choices. I've had low-level jobs, just like most people who have actually had to struggle through their lives; don't try to paint me as this elitist who can't identify--most of my hard-core socialist friends never really had to work a day in their lives and basically live off their trust funds, whereas when I was a kid I actually had to live off food stamps and shit.