THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Damian79 on May 08, 2012, 07:26:31 PM

Title: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Damian79 on May 08, 2012, 07:26:31 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7o8yWSmkMMQ

Agree completely.  If you have some other opinion on this you are wrong.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 08, 2012, 07:27:58 PM
my only answer is

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-7gmds2njg
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Damian79 on May 08, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
There are more flaws in SSBB than just the final destination situation.  And that vid neglects to point out htere is still plenty of fun to be had without all those things.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Positive Touch on May 08, 2012, 07:53:36 PM
demi

invoke your ban powers
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Damian79 on May 08, 2012, 08:07:49 PM
You like brawl?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 08, 2012, 08:15:08 PM
Melee was awesome, and Brawl sucks. Don't know if they're "real fighting games", also don't care.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 08, 2012, 08:15:14 PM
Quote from: Damian79 on May 08, 2012, 07:42:30 PM
There are more flaws in SSBB than just the final destination situation.  And that vid neglects to point out htere is still plenty of fun to be had without all those things.

i was just fooling around because i didn't watch the video as i think the argument is stupid,but after giving it a quick glance it actualy sticks up perfectly :lol

the whole reason the argument exist is because fighting game are perceived as more noble than party (can we call them like that? let's call them that) game,example

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217487025_rDFnb-L-2.jpg)

"buuhuu i tripped and lost :derp" it is another case of nfans having a small dick :smug

Quote from: Joe Molotov® EDGE™ on May 08, 2012, 08:15:08 PM
Melee was awesome, and Brawl sucks. Don't know if they're "real fighting games", also don't care.

while i do like melee more than brawl,i think it's unfair to say that brawl just sucks,i could go on a rant why i favor melee over brawl,but seriously would anybody care? :smug
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 08, 2012, 08:28:29 PM
I probably played 100+ hours of Mario Party multiplayer.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Damian79 on May 08, 2012, 08:51:43 PM
I played maybe a month of brawl but i played melee for a couple of years.  Brawl just felt dumbed down in every area and half arsed.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Phoenix Dark on May 08, 2012, 10:45:22 PM
I know some pretty hardcore fighter fans and they love Smash. It's still played competitively, people still put up good money on it, etc.

I played Brawl a couple times and that was enough. It's a completely different game, which is fine I guess - but it just doesn't feel right. I'd imagine there is a Brawl competitive scene but from what I understand most of the big pros still play Smash.

Perhaps I'm being somewhat hypocritical considering I'm a big StarCraft fan, and the never ending BW vs SC2 debate...but at least SC2 has generally been accepted by most people/players and is clearly a competitive game (regardless of whether it's easier than BW or not)
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on May 08, 2012, 11:25:37 PM
Melee is a halfway decent party fighting game.

Brawl is collecting and viewing tchotchkes and Nintendo music discs with a party fighting game as a secondary (almost tertiary) feature.

Brawl took several steps backwards and I was never able to get online once.  Better luck next time.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Robo on May 08, 2012, 11:31:21 PM
My mascot fighter is legit and your mascot fighter is for scrubs!
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on May 08, 2012, 11:41:45 PM
Quote from: Robo on May 08, 2012, 11:31:21 PM
My mascot fighter is legit and your mascot fighter is for scrubs!

u mad?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: etiolate on May 08, 2012, 11:54:25 PM
Items and stage hazards are Smash Bros cool contribution to fighting games. The removal of them is just lame. Learning to deal with random variables is a skill in itself.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 09, 2012, 12:15:52 AM
Quote from: etiolate on May 08, 2012, 11:54:25 PM
Items and stage hazards are Smash Bros cool contribution to fighting games. The removal of them is just lame. Learning to deal with random variables is a skill in itself.

:rofl

The Smash games are basically all party games.  To say that Melee is less worse than Brawl is to say nothing at all.  Grow up, you pussies.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on May 09, 2012, 12:26:09 AM
Quote from: Creepy Old Guy on May 09, 2012, 12:15:52 AM
Quote from: etiolate on May 08, 2012, 11:54:25 PM
Items and stage hazards are Smash Bros cool contribution to fighting games. The removal of them is just lame. Learning to deal with random variables is a skill in itself.

:rofl

The Smash games are basically all party games.  To say that Melee is less worse than Brawl is to say nothing at all.  Grow up, you pussies.
Somebody speaks the truth here. Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game. Period. End of discussion.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 09, 2012, 12:49:28 AM
Jesus, ferrariman is my wingman on this.  brb, gotta hang myself.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: etiolate on May 09, 2012, 12:50:29 AM
It's a fighting game. Genre restrictions aren't that harsh.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 05:47:51 AM
It's a party game imo. I'm not even a fighting game snob either.

And fuck there is nothing wrong with arena type party games, 2D or 3D. I fucking love Power Stone. People getting offended at calling it a party game are weird.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 05:48:35 AM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 02:47:42 AM
pretending a fighting game isn't a fighting game to protect the sanctity of a genre description of fucking video games

wipeout isn't a racing game, the stupid cars don't even have tires

is mario kart a fighting game? i mean you have balloons as health and you can zone if you keep going in circle amirite? :derp
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 06:30:07 AM
Fighting games I see mostly but not exclusively (Tekken Tag and DoA and such) as 1v1 fighters, in which spending time learning the moves, timings and strategies elevates you above people who play casually. It's going to have a pretty tiny chance of randomness determining the winner of a battle.

Party games I see as games that dole out random events (Items, Gems falling from the sky in arb places in powerstone), games you could easily have fun matches even with people with a bit less experience than oneself.

This is my mental guideline, Smash leans toward the party side for me.   
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 06:45:21 AM
I have no affiliations towards the FGC. It's neither a hate thing, see Power Stone. As for Tekken, I've always considered it to be a piss poor fighter, yet still a fighter.

I really don't have anything invested in this debate so it's not much of a bother for me to see people define it either way.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 06:56:19 AM
And I see people calling it a banana when it's cleary a vegetable to be weird ???

It just doesnt have as much in common with what is generally referred to as a fighting game, as a party game for me. If I had no idea what smash was and some hee-haw in a shop sold it to me as a fighting game I'd play it and enjoy it, but would feel misled.

I'm also not going with party games a sub set of fightan, but I see it as a broader identifier for things like Dokapon Kingdom, Crash Bash, Mario Party, Blur, Mario Kart, Sonic All Stars, Twisted Metal in large.  I don't believe collections of mini games are the only party games, I think a single shot game can be party too.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 07:03:57 AM
It's going to be pretty hard to find that answer, this debate is as much about feelings as gameplay merits.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 08:02:41 AM
well as that video says,you should define a bunch of rules that define the genre and then see how well the game fits those rule

fighting game basic rules would be

- two character hits each other with stuff
- this makes their health decrease
- the first one that get it's health to 0 lose
- a timer decide who wins in case nobody gets to 0 after a while

smash bros already fucks one of the basic rules of the genre by having no health bar and having this weird weight based system

then i guess you could add some advanced rules

- character can block other attack reducing damage
- character movement is limited
- fighting is limited to a flat zone
- most fighting games have a combo system

now the biggest one here is about movement,smash bros doesn't control like a fighter at all,it controls like a kirby game which is why they could do a story mode that features barely any fighting at all,sure character can block but it's not like blocking is ingrained as in other games,when you see a smash bros match it's about the character dashing and running all over the place,certainly not standing their ground... there is a reason it's "fox only" and it's because fox is the guy who runs all over the place like an idiot,that video argue that you can combo,i say that it's pretty bullshit because after a while character starts to fly all over the place and you can't do combo when that happens,one of the basic of a combo system is that the stage usualy has boundaries in which you can trap the opponent but in smash bros there is nothing like that,that is another thing that makes it unfighter like

the reason that most fighting game takes place on flat zone is because the character themself have stiff movement,so the problem isn't that stages like rainbow zone exist and that if we ban them all the game suddenly turns into a fighting game,the problem is that i can triple jump high enough to reach the top of the screen

the rules of a party game are less defined but one perceived constant is randomness,randomness is bad because it means you can lose even if you are awesome at the game (see the penny arcade strip above) that is a pretty stupid argument but let's not go off road... so how's smash randomness?

- a player who can gets hold of certain items has an advantage,if an item spawns near to a player instead of the other that player got an advantage
- lot of things explode in smash,in fact it's possible for a player to die even when his opponent has done nothing other than standing still
- tripping
- super special moves aren't dictated by thing like damage received and dealed but instead by a balls that appear at a random time in a random spot,one interessing thing to note is that party game love losers,did you know a free super special is granted to a player who's behind at least 5 points? isn't that sooooooooooooo unfair? i think i read once that mario kart has a similiar system too were player in the last place are granted better items

while the game is not totaly random like mario party,there is enough randomness to bother tourneytards and it's a pretty heavy component,disabling it doesn't turn brawl suddenly into a fighting game in the same way playing mario kart battle mode doesn't turn mario kart into an arena shooter,oscar says wipeout should count as a party game but i tought most of the randomness came from missile and shields? for example is there a wipeout item with the same power as the hated blue shell? (this is a serious question,can't say i like racing game) if the element of randomness in wipeout is not really estabilished so much then it's not a party game,just having a small randomness element (items falling at random) doesn't suddenly turn into a party game but when that random elements become more prominent (lot of items start falling at random,one of the items make you invincible,one of the items instantly defeat the other player even if you were losing) then yes it start becoming more a party game

(http://art.penny-arcade.com/photos/217512289_qxrzo-L-2.jpg)

ah see? the third strip? that one is a party game
but as i said before the problem is not "that banana is not a fruit" the problem is "fruit are better than vegetable,therefore even if there are some elements that might let you think this is a vegetable and not a fruit,i'm going to argue it's a fruit"
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on May 09, 2012, 08:50:43 AM
Quote from: Creepy Old Guy on May 09, 2012, 12:49:28 AM
Jesus, ferrariman is my wingman on this.  brb, gotta hang myself.

I had this opinion for the longest time, don't hang yourself.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: ferrarimanf355 on May 09, 2012, 09:12:04 AM
Someone sounds incredibly butthurt that Smash Brothers isn't a fighting game.  :lol
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 09:32:42 AM
gee oscar i was suspecting some argument based on some weird game like power stone or maybe destrega,not this nitpickiness rebuttal :lol

the point of that list isn't that "if you break one of those rule you suddenly are disqualifed as a fighting game" the point of that list is "the more of those rules you break,the less fighting game you become"
it's also about how you break them,having 8 ways movement isn't the same thing as moving around like you are in a freaking super mario bros games,it's like i said "if you aren't racing in a road track then you aren't a racing game" and then someone said "bubububu what about games where you fly? isn't donkey kong barrel blast a racing game?" when the actual response should be "so turn based games aren't racing games? color me shocked"

the important point is "randomness is a big part of smash bros,more over than things that make a fighting game,a fighting game,therefore smash bros is a party game like mario kart"
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Damian79 on May 09, 2012, 09:39:03 AM
Wow this thread exploded while i platy league of legends.  So i guess we need to put Smash into its own category like moba games?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 09:45:39 AM
Smash is a fighting game. You take control of various characters for the sole purpose of beating eachother up on a specific stage. Items and a percentage health system don't change that.

As for me personally, Brawl is better than Melee in every way that matters to me. More content, I like how the battles are more aerial now, and they made Luigi soooooooooo much better. That alone puts it above Melee.

(Toon Link is also a vast improvement over Young, and thus actually fun for me to play now.)

Plus some of the music. :drool

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wjdgxK44ctQ

SSE was pretty lame though. Smash 3D/U will hopefully improve it. And I didn't care for how stripped down classic mode was either, but you really only play single player in Smash a handful of times compared to multi.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Takao on May 09, 2012, 09:56:09 AM
I don't know why y'all even give a shit. If it's fun for you to play why would you care what genre some dudes who drink every sour piece of milk from Capcom's tit have to say about it?

I don't feel that Smash is a serious fighter, but it's a fighter none the less, and no before anyone asks I haven't bought a Capcom game in years (it was a MegaMan game).
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Joe Molotov on May 09, 2012, 10:13:41 AM
:bow Hottest thread on The Bore. :bow2
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: maxy on May 09, 2012, 10:26:09 AM
:violin
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 09, 2012, 10:29:22 AM
-Almost all of the randomness in Smash Bros. can be turned off
-Several levels are little more than flat planes
-1v1 matches are possible
-Items can be turned off
-magoose is duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumb but we already knew that
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: Great Rumbler on May 09, 2012, 10:29:22 AM
-Almost all of the randomness in Smash Bros. can be turned off
-Several levels are little more than flat planes
-1v1 matches are possible
-Items can be turned off
-magoose is duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumb but we already knew that

well gee then i guess that if i play by following turns and the like,smash bros is an rpg
look i even have a video!

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlLO1Nixa6I
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=u6dHN6Idog8

uh,there is a statisticaly improbable amount of video like this on youtube,who would have guessed? ???
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 09, 2012, 11:14:16 AM
Quote from: magus on May 09, 2012, 10:58:22 AM
Quote from: Great Rumbler on May 09, 2012, 10:29:22 AM
-Almost all of the randomness in Smash Bros. can be turned off
-Several levels are little more than flat planes
-1v1 matches are possible
-Items can be turned off
-magoose is duuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuumb but we already knew that

well gee then i guess that if i play by following turns and the like,smash bros is an rpg

Um...no, because such a mode doesn't exist?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 11:41:16 AM
wait wait
i got a better one
goldeneye is a fighting game,this mode exist so there is no problem :smug

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSXb5QOwrBo

"no guns,no rocket launchers,oddjob only,facility destination"
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 09, 2012, 11:49:05 AM
Magoose....you have a problem. I'm sorry.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Owl-faced Wizard on May 09, 2012, 11:57:35 AM
Just call everything a party ____.  Team Fortress is a party shooter, Yakuza 3 is a party Shenmue, Bubble Bobble is a party platformer, Phantasy Star Online is a party Phantasy Star and naturally there ain't no party like a party party.



Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Himu on May 09, 2012, 11:57:40 AM
smash is a fighting game

just not a very good one.

end of discussion, holy shit
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 11:59:36 AM
@Oscar, no one is going to come out of this debate without some form of shitstain on their shirts. At least I backed off while I just had some splash damage and am not partaking in the figurative rolling in the shit.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 11:51:31 AM
this thread was worth it just to see a team-up between triumph, ferrariman, momo, and magoose.  they look cute together.

I say triple leper the whole lot and then nuke them from orbit, only way to be sure.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Owl-faced Wizard on May 09, 2012, 12:02:14 PM
Quote from: Andrex on May 09, 2012, 12:01:04 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 11:51:31 AM
this thread was worth it just to see a team-up between triumph, ferrariman, momo, and magoose.  they look cute together.

I say triple leper the whole lot and then nuke them from orbit, only way to be sure.

Shut up.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:05:49 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 11:51:31 AM
this thread was worth it just to see a team-up between triumph, ferrariman, momo, and magoose.  they look cute together.

"oh boy i want a discussion to know why people think i am a wrong"
*argument*
"oh buuhuu people are dumb,i'm going to take my ball home :'("

also bonus minus point for teaming up with andrex
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Himu on May 09, 2012, 12:27:00 PM
you know those really watery shits you take when you had an evening eating junk food and your asshole lets all out that gooey shit that felt like it was going to explode?

i just had one of those shits.

and it was better than this thread
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Trent Dole on May 09, 2012, 12:27:20 PM
How about... Smash is the Nintendo version of a fighting game? Does that make everyone happy?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: cool breeze on May 09, 2012, 12:30:13 PM
I just consider them platformer games because they remind me more of platformer games.  I dunno.  Genre identification gets weird.  I think it only matters if you're looking for similar games.  I make the distinction between 2D fighters and 3D fighters because I wouldn't say: if you like Street Fighter, you might like Virtua Fighter.  And that gets into subgenres and that's another mess.

Smash more or less made its own genre anyway.  The first thing anyone says when talking about Playstation Bash Siblings or Jump Super Stars is "it's like Smash brothers."  It's like how Metroid an Castlevania SotN established the 'metroidvania' umbrella, instead of calling them platformers or adventure games.  I'm contradicting myself here.

I really enjoyed all the Smash games.  I'd recommend them to fans of the Mario Bros genre.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:32:20 PM
i don't know what makes more sense than "there is no traditional health bar and in fighting game character don't go flying all over the place or have stuff like triple jumps,therefore it is not a traditional fighting game,if it's not a fighting game,then the closest thing it arbitates about are party games,which includes game with a heavy randomness element like mario kart"

bububububu virtua fighter has 8-way directional control,it's not like we make a distinction between 3D fighters and 2D fighters right? :'(
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Robo on May 09, 2012, 12:34:29 PM
Quote from: Trent Dole on May 09, 2012, 12:27:20 PM
How about... Smash is the Nintendo version of a fighting game? Does that make everyone happy?

Nailed it.  Smash is to fighting games what Wii Music is to music games.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Beezy on May 09, 2012, 12:35:31 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 11:51:31 AM
this thread was worth it just to see a team-up between triumph, ferrariman, momo, and magoose.  they look cute together.
:lol
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: bork on May 09, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
This has always been an incredibly-distinguished mentally-challenged "debate."  Smash is a "party fighter" if you want to give it a sub-classification, but yeah...it's a fighting game.  One with random elements thrown in, sure, but still a fighting game.  This is like someone in 1993 saying that Virtua Fighter isn't a fighting game because it doesn't play like Street Fighter.

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion. 
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: lyte edge on May 09, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
This has always been an incredibly-distinguished mentally-challenged "debate."  Smash is a "party fighter" if you want to give it a sub-classification, but yeah...it's a fighting game.  One with random elements thrown in, sure, but still a fighting game.  This is like someone in 1993 saying that Virtua Fighter isn't a fighting game because it doesn't play like Street Fighter.

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion.

saying that is a party fighter means that a game has element from both genre,so what's wrong if i say "i think the party element are more relevant than the fighting element,therefore it's a party game" that was the argument i was trying to make with all these rule before someone went "nuh-uh,what about games with ring outs?"

Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 12:44:21 PM
Start Game -> Select Character -> Select Stage -> Use attacks to beat up other person or person(s)

^ Any fighting game, including Smash.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: bork on May 09, 2012, 12:44:40 PM
Quote from: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: lyte edge on May 09, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
This has always been an incredibly-distinguished mentally-challenged "debate."  Smash is a "party fighter" if you want to give it a sub-classification, but yeah...it's a fighting game.  One with random elements thrown in, sure, but still a fighting game.  This is like someone in 1993 saying that Virtua Fighter isn't a fighting game because it doesn't play like Street Fighter.

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion.

saying that is a party fighter means that a game has element from both genre,so what's wrong if i say "i think the party element are more relevant than the fighting element,therefore it's a party game" that was the argument i was trying to make with all these rule before someone went "nuh-uh,what about games with ring outs?"

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion. 
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 12:46:38 PM
Quote from: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: lyte edge on May 09, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
This has always been an incredibly-distinguished mentally-challenged "debate."  Smash is a "party fighter" if you want to give it a sub-classification, but yeah...it's a fighting game.  One with random elements thrown in, sure, but still a fighting game.  This is like someone in 1993 saying that Virtua Fighter isn't a fighting game because it doesn't play like Street Fighter.

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion.

saying that is a party fighter means that a game has element from both genre,so what's wrong if i say "i think the party element are more relevant than the fighting element,therefore it's a party game" that was the argument i was trying to make with all these rule before someone went "nuh-uh,what about games with ring outs?"

How can you even say the party elements outweigh the fighting ones? The fighting game is its core. That's why it's a "party fighter" and not a "fighty partyer." Like Rumbler said you can turn all the party stuff off, you can't say the same for the fighting stuff. Even in SSE the focus is on fighting.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: cool breeze on May 09, 2012, 12:46:41 PM
do they play virtual on at these fighting tournaments?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Himu on May 09, 2012, 12:47:48 PM
so i take it power stone and battle arena toshinden aren't fighters either?

this is like the people who said dj shadow's endtroducing is not a hip hop album
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Robo on May 09, 2012, 12:48:13 PM
Enough of this, I'm gonna go play my favorite fighting game, UFC Undisputed 3.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: bork on May 09, 2012, 12:48:36 PM
Quote from: Linkzg on May 09, 2012, 12:46:41 PM
do they play virtual on at these fighting tournaments?

Not that I know of, but it's also not a very popular game here.  There are tournaments that have Smash Bros listed in their line-ups. 
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: bork on May 09, 2012, 12:50:18 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 12:49:21 PM
Quote from: Linkzg on May 09, 2012, 12:46:41 PM
do they play virtual on at these fighting tournaments?

I consider Virtual On a fighting game.  It's a very different sort of fighting game, but it's definitely a fighting game in my eyes.

Yup.  Along with Gundam Vs. Gundam, which used to consistently beat out all of the other traditional fighting games for the top spot on the arcade charts.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:59:18 PM
Quote from: Andrex on May 09, 2012, 12:46:38 PM
Quote from: magus on May 09, 2012, 12:43:38 PM
Quote from: lyte edge on May 09, 2012, 12:37:45 PM
This has always been an incredibly-distinguished mentally-challenged "debate."  Smash is a "party fighter" if you want to give it a sub-classification, but yeah...it's a fighting game.  One with random elements thrown in, sure, but still a fighting game.  This is like someone in 1993 saying that Virtua Fighter isn't a fighting game because it doesn't play like Street Fighter.

Nintendo made a different kind of fighting game.  End of discussion.

saying that is a party fighter means that a game has element from both genre,so what's wrong if i say "i think the party element are more relevant than the fighting element,therefore it's a party game" that was the argument i was trying to make with all these rule before someone went "nuh-uh,what about games with ring outs?"

How can you even say the party elements outweigh the fighting ones? The fighting game is its core. That's why it's a "party fighter" and not a "fighty partyer." Like Rumbler said you can turn all the party stuff off, you can't say the same for the fighting stuff. Even in SSE the focus is on fighting.

do i have to post it again?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O-7gmds2njg

nobody plays with all the random element removed because it's the randomness that make the game special,you can play an FPS with all the guns turned off but that doesn't magicaly turn into another genre because some people have decided that gun are unfair

and really? the focus of SSE is on fighting? :rofl

Quote
so i take it power stone and battle arena toshinden aren't fighters either?

we'd have to talk about how many fighting game rules power stone break and how much randomness is in it
i think power stone weight more on the fighting scale,therefore it's a fighting game simply by virtue of being 1 on 1,having traditional health bar and having character that don't spend 5 minutes in air tumbling around like pinball balls but you could probably make an argument for the sequel
but nobody cares about power stone so it's ok :smug
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 01:06:54 PM
Either magus is literally the devil, as in the devil's advocate, or he's just really really dumb. I don't really know which I'd prefer at this point.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 01:31:58 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 01:03:30 PM
how about Marvel vs Capcom, then?  Triple jumps, characters flying through the air like pinballs, multiple fighters at the same time...?

there are no random elements in marvel vs capcom and as far as i checked it's a 1 vs 1 game
1 on 1 means that 2 fighters and only 2 fighters fight at the same time and not stuff like having a tag team or something,i guess you could count strikers and tag assist as having multiple fighters since you can still punch them in the face before they pull out their attack but that's really forcing the definition

and true,marvel vs capcom character have a lot of mobility and air time,but they don't have the same absurd amount of mobility and air time a smash bros character have which move like a character in a kirby game which is why they made a whole mode that plays like a sidescroller,nor they risk bouncing on a wall,or catching on fire or fall trough a pit,which is the whole point of "the stage is flat" rule

just to reinforce that "randomness is more important in smash than punching" think what they added in brawl,they added a special move that's given to a random player at a random time,if the point of the game was fighting why not make the special move based on how much you punch people?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Robo on May 09, 2012, 01:32:50 PM
"Randomness" doesn't amount to anything in a fighting game beyond a discussion concerning "fairness" and competitive worth.  I'm making a real attempt to not read the millionth manifestation of this stupid topic, but I'm not sure why that's even part of the argument.

To wit, even Street Fighter 2 contains significant elements of randomness: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Randomness
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Robo on May 09, 2012, 01:35:07 PM
Smash is a party fighter—a sub-genre of fighting games whereby more than two individually player-controlled characters fight one another simultaneously.  Power Stone 2 is a party fighter.  Naruto is a party fighter.  Guilty Gear Isuka is a party fighter.  Thrill Kill is a party fighter.

Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: brob on May 09, 2012, 01:39:30 PM
are we using "contemporary community standards" or "hypothetical reasonable persons" when determining what is, and isn't a fighting game?

magoose has already deemed Super Turbo a non-fighting game, so he is clearly neither.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 01:40:59 PM
Quote from: magus on May 09, 2012, 01:31:58 PM
just to reinforce that "randomness is more important in smash than punching" think what they added in brawl,they added a special move that's given to a random player at a random time,if the point of the game was fighting why not make the special move based on how much you punch people?

Regardless of how you get it, the end result is always using it to fight other characters. AKA fighting game.

Quote from: Robo on May 09, 2012, 01:32:50 PM
"Randomness" doesn't amount to anything in a fighting game beyond a discussion concerning "fairness" and competitive worth.  I'm making a real attempt to not read the millionth manifestation of this stupid topic, but I'm not sure why that's even part of the argument.

To wit, even Street Fighter 2 contains significant elements of randomness: http://wiki.shoryuken.com/Super_Street_Fighter_2_Turbo#Randomness
  • The amount of damage done by a move (This can be extreme)
  • The amount of dizzy damage done by a move
  • The charge times for special/super moves (Can vary up to 3 frames)
  • Ryu's [cr.Short->cr.Short xx super] simply won't combo half the time, even when timed perfectly.
  • Gief's standing 720 (He'll just jump half the time, even when timed perfectly)
  • Who gets the throw when both players input the command on the same frame
  • Getting a normal move when attempting a wake-up throw against a meaty attack
  • Inputs windows for special moves and super attacks.

Suck it maguguu.
Title: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Shaka Khan on May 09, 2012, 01:44:16 PM
Honestly, I don't really care how it's categorized, but I care *so much* about pissing off nerds.

So the minute ninthings collectively stop frothing and fuming in the face of others' denial, I'll call it a fighter.

Until then, it's not a fighter, you childish future fegs.

Title: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Shaka Khan on May 09, 2012, 01:47:12 PM
I edited "future" in because calling kids fegs is just wrong.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 01:56:29 PM
It's too late Oscar, you have already been splashed by (5) shit(s)
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 02:09:01 PM
I'm waiting for Oscar to throw his hands up and say "that's it, I'm done with the Bore now too. See you losers on WYL."

;)
Title: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Shaka Khan on May 09, 2012, 02:13:28 PM
Haha, it would be hilarious if this lame topic for some reason is his last straw.

People would be like "DK chased him off GAF; Smash chased him off Bore."

Title: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Shaka Khan on May 09, 2012, 02:15:15 PM
Wait a second, were we actually discussing this topic seriously?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Owl-faced Wizard on May 09, 2012, 02:17:08 PM
Green chips are party chips.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 02:31:57 PM
Quote from: Spencer on May 09, 2012, 02:24:20 PM
Also why would Oscar leave? It hasn't taken me long to figure out Momo has stupid fuckin opinions
Uhm yeah. sorry I can't live up to your (high) standards?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 02:50:14 PM
Yeah I'm that guy, unsuccessful derail :(

p.s. I wasnt mad or anything, just making a weed counter quip =P
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Himu on May 09, 2012, 02:56:54 PM
leave my momo alone
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: cool breeze on May 09, 2012, 03:03:43 PM
Redeemer-tier only Spawn demon hand is the one true fighting game.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: brob on May 09, 2012, 03:08:59 PM
assuming his user name is after the pyuo pyuo character, I'm with himu.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 09, 2012, 03:14:04 PM
You guys  :-*

spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://i.imgur.com/CVZmv.jpg)
[close]
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 03:33:26 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 02:17:26 PM
Hard to say.  Magoose may have been Poe'ing the shit out of me, I suppose.  But I don't think he was.

if i have an argument,i'll bring that argument to death even if it's about the sky being dark blue instead of cyan or some stupid shit like that :punch
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 03:45:49 PM
Quote from: Oscar the Grouch on May 09, 2012, 02:25:11 PM
We're all fucking nerds.  I don't even see how a non-nerd would have gotten to the Bore.  It's just that some of us nerds are trolly nerds, some of us are idiot nerds, and some of us are angry nerds.

(http://i.imgur.com/fK8Q1.jpg)

Actually, "Rainbow Nerds" seems appropriate given the homosexual overtones of this place.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Fifstar on May 09, 2012, 05:18:49 PM
How has this thread 3 pages in a little more then one day?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: brob on May 09, 2012, 05:30:17 PM
four digits worth of members mayne  :pimp
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 09, 2012, 06:53:29 PM
Quote from: Borys on May 09, 2012, 05:34:04 PM
magoose is worse than shit. it's diarrhea.

Just ignore him Oscar.

shut up you poo-land moron! :maf
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Van Cruncheon on May 09, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
smash brothers isn't a fighting game in the same way that count chocula isn't a breakfast cereal.

meaning that it's something for children and fatties.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 09, 2012, 07:19:43 PM
Quote from: Van Cruncheon on May 09, 2012, 06:54:51 PM
smash brothers isn't a fighting game in the same way that count chocula isn't a breakfast cereal.

meaning that it's something for children and fatties.

Works for me.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Sho Nuff on May 09, 2012, 07:29:33 PM
It's a shitty fighting game

Like FIST for the PSX

(Tries to find Youtube footage of it)

Holy shit FIST is so bad that nobody's even fucking put it on Youtube! IT'S ABOUT THE SAME QUALITY LEVEL AS BRAWL THOUGH
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Robo on May 09, 2012, 08:14:37 PM
I can't believe I forgot to mention Wu-Tang: Shaolin Style, the definitive party-fighter.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Takao on May 09, 2012, 08:30:26 PM
Playing DBZ: Ultimate Battle 22 as a kid made me sick.

I liked Final Bout though. I'm afraid if I replay that I might die.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: EmCeeGrammar on May 09, 2012, 09:33:53 PM
I don't see why anyone cares other than pro smash players wanting a piece of that mlg money.  I mean yeah, it would be nice to get officially sponsored and have a go at big cash prizes and get afforded all the same opportunities and rewards as the relative minority of folks who play street fighter/marvel (because lets face it, Smash is the most popular fighting game by several factors).  But its all moot because Nintendo will never endorse the community.  Its not like the smash scene is in any risk of dying out.  Its pretty damn huge.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 10, 2012, 12:28:51 AM
The vehicle combat genre is a bit stranger for me.  Let's look at Twisted Metal, not a racing game, not a fighting game. It's sort of an arena based vehicle mayhem game, there arent enough of these to make it it's own genre really, hence why I put it with party games since it is most similar to that particular genre, although it's not a very comfy fit.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Great Rumbler on May 10, 2012, 01:07:11 AM
Quote from: Momo on May 10, 2012, 12:28:51 AM
The vehicle combat genre is a bit stranger for me.  Let's look at Twisted Metal, not a racing game, not a fighting game. It's sort of an arena based vehicle mayhem game, there arent enough of these to make it it's own genre really, hence why I put it with party games since it is most similar to that particular genre, although it's not a very comfy fit.

Vigilante 8, Rogue Trip, and Interstate '76, fool.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 10, 2012, 01:17:28 AM
And San Fransisco Rush. Doesnt make enough, even then, what do we call it so people would know what we are talking about?
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 10, 2012, 01:37:10 AM
San Fransisco Rush 2097 on N64 had a pretty awesome car combat arena mode, one of the finest examples of the genre.

Car combat in the name itself will definitely evoke a more accurate description of what you find in the box, just kind of hard to get people to accept it as a genre. The only reason we really label games is to be able to quickly summarize and easily communicate with our peers as to how a game will play. I feel for you and me, it's a perfect description, I'm not sure if it will work for those not familiar with the genre, not that "party game" works better in this instance at all.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Sho Nuff on May 10, 2012, 02:09:48 AM
:bow SF Rush series :bow2
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: etiolate on May 10, 2012, 02:18:52 AM
Rush fans should check out http://nitronic-rush.com/
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: bork on May 10, 2012, 10:54:35 AM
Quote from: Takao on May 09, 2012, 08:30:26 PM
I liked Final Bout though. I'm afraid if I replay that I might die.

 :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck
 :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck
 :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck :yuck

One of the biggest piece of shit fighting games ever released.  When I worked at a game store, we used to tell customers how bad it was and recommend that they get Ultimate Battle 22 or Legends, but it didn't matter because it was Dragonball GT so Super Saiyajin #905903240324324324030423 was available or whatever.  Even the store owner would tell people that the game sucked because he knew they were going to buy it anyway, sell it back, and then he'd make more money selling the game used and repeating the cycle.  :lol
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 10, 2012, 11:19:32 AM
i liked final bout too :spin

i remember if you got behind the opponent you could punch him to death and he would never be able to turn around :lol
:bow janky psx 3D fighting game :bow2
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Takao on May 10, 2012, 11:26:29 AM
Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: bork on May 10, 2012, 11:38:30 AM
Takao, you can stay.  Leper magus.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Himu on May 10, 2012, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: Takao on May 10, 2012, 11:26:29 AM
Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

How did you guys play it? i played imports by disc swapping which was such a fucking hassle
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Takao on May 10, 2012, 11:46:37 AM
I actually don't own a copy of Final Bout, it was just me playing at a friend's who had a modded PS1. I've never played The Legend. I tried getting it to run on an emulator but accidentally deleted some PS1 files and couldn't be bothered to fix it. I do own the North American release of UB22.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: cool breeze on May 10, 2012, 11:48:04 AM
Final Bout is so awful, so is Ultimate Battle 22.  Legends is the only good PS1 Dragon Ball game and it's pretty great.

I own Final Bout and an imported Legends, but my friend and I mostly played Psychic Force if we wanted a good Dragon Ball video game on the ps1.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 10, 2012, 11:54:04 AM
Quote from: Takao on May 10, 2012, 11:26:29 AM
Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

Best not be talking about the awesome Budokai Tenkaichi series.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Takao on May 10, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
I'm thinking Spike shitting out some horrible games this generation is warping my opinion on their older games. I had fun with Tenkaichi Tag Team, but that's basically the only Spike DBZ game I can say that about in recent times.

Somehow Ultimate Tenkaichi shipped 700k, so I imagine we're not done seeing Spike after DBZ for Kinect...
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: magus on May 10, 2012, 12:24:15 PM
Quote from: Stringer Bell on May 10, 2012, 11:39:58 AM
Quote from: Takao on May 10, 2012, 11:26:29 AM
Back in the old days (pre-2004 reprint) Final Bout cost a lot of money so I had to play a bootleg version on my friend's PS1.

It's funny how Final Bout evolved into Budokai while The Legend turned into Spike's janky games.

How did you guys play it? i played imports by disc swapping which was such a fucking hassle

playing pirated psx games is as easy as installing a chip and the streets around where i live are full of people selling bootlegs,i still remember the day i found someone who sold me a copy of lunar silver star story after reading about it as some mystical super rare game,for some reason it had the cover of the sequel

some bootlegs would turn up bad tough sometimes it was pretty obvious,like when someone was selling the bootleg of resident evil 6,maybe they saw the future? :o
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Momo on May 10, 2012, 12:26:19 PM
I still have my PSX, it still works amazingly. I had mine chipped because that was the only solution back then.
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Tasty on May 10, 2012, 12:32:09 PM
Quote from: Takao on May 10, 2012, 12:09:33 PM
I'm thinking Spike shitting out some horrible games this generation is warping my opinion on their older games. I had fun with Tenkaichi Tag Team, but that's basically the only Spike DBZ game I can say that about in recent times.

Somehow Ultimate Tenkaichi shipped 700k, so I imagine we're not done seeing Spike after DBZ for Kinect...

:bow BT2 and 3 were awesome. :bow2
Title: Re: Finally someone gets it. Smash is a fighting game and brawl is garbage.
Post by: Himu on May 10, 2012, 02:42:52 PM
here is mocking a magus argument

Don't you see? Randomness makes it less of a racing game. :imgur

Didn't you see this random comic I posted?

(http://i.imgur.com/ewc1k.jpg)

It nails why Mario Kart isn't a racing game. There are too many variables at work and you're always getting knocked out of your place. That's not a race, that's a cock fight.