THE BORE
General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: iconoclast on May 15, 2012, 11:47:39 PM
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http://andriasang.com/con114/cave_vita_titles/
Cave cancelled all of their Vita titles. Well, hopefully this means they're sticking with consoles.
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Vita's game announcements go in reverse
Topic for the recently announced game heaven: Sony's releasing a patch to disable the games you own.
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I hope Cave didn't cancel their games over the platform's sales. They still make 360 games, don't they? Uber niche games have seen success (yes, lowered expectations and all that) on Vita from the stuff NIS and Gust put out.
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Oh, this is delicious. Is there a GAF thread about the cancellations yet?
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No, and I don't think there should be. It would just be another Vita doom thread for people who have no interest in Cave's games (which let me say - I have no interest in Cave's games), let alone knew they announced some for Vita to bitch in. There's literally a thread about that everyday now. Heck, Game Heaven 2's thread already has people complaining. It's not like we even knew of these games either, Cave gave one a title and pledged blind words of support for the other.
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Sadness. If I had a 40 I'd pour it out for them.
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Yeah, Jonnyram said the end might be nigh for Cave in the shmup thread. I assumed they were desperate (they were pandering to otaku, porting to iOS, got into social gaming, etc.) but as someone who only knows of them due to being a fan of Japanese games I wasn't aware that their situation was so dire.
It's like a race between SNKP and Cave to see which uber niche former (relative) powerhouse will fall first.
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I hope Cave didn't cancel their games over the platform's sales. They still make 360 games, don't they? Uber niche games have seen success (yes, lowered expectations and all that) on Vita from the stuff NIS and Gust put out.
I believe they said Mushihime-sama was going to be their last 360 game. Plus, Dodonpachi Saidaioujou has a "Kan" at the end of its title, so that could mean it's going to be their final arcade game as well. So yeah, they might be in trouble.
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NIS never makes money and they're somehow around.
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Yeah, if money is really an issue (which from your post and some others it seems it is) then canceling their Vita games is a good idea. That could've been the finishing blow if those games didn't sell due to the costs associated to the cart production.
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NIS never makes money and they're somehow around.
NIS makes money when they don't do stupid things.
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I doubt they're scrapping the stuff they did for the Vita game altogether - it'll probably just be ported to iOS. If they survive long enough to do it.
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http://andriasang.com/con119/cave_coo_resigns/
Cave is dead
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Could be for the best. Clearly he wasn't making them a lot of money.
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God fucking damnit, not Cave too :'( :'( :'(
Capcom sinking the fighting game market, Cave dying, nobody wanting to bring RPGs out in English anymore... yeah for someone with my tastes I am fucked. Time to find another hobby.
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Eh, even if Cave folds, it'll still take many years to master all of the games they've released so far, so I wouldn't be terribly upset. It's honestly surprising that they've survived for this long while making some of the most niche games around.
But I would be upset if they never port Saidaioujou. Ibara + Kuro would be nice too... :(
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yeah, it sucks that Nayuta no Kiseki looks really good but there's only a tiny chance of localization. PSP is effectively dead in the west. Type-0, Akiba's Trip, Kenka Bancho Bros, and other games most likely won't come over.
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If their Vita games were finished then I don't know why they didn't do a PSN release. I know that in Japan digital purchases aren't common place on console hardware, and I know niche fanbases can be very picky but if the games are done and you're tight for cash I imagine you'd want at least some money back. Are CERO ratings expensive or something?
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Well, since this is basically the 'Cave is dead' topic for now...
There's an interview on Famitsu with Ikeda and Asada that just went up where they go into info about Mushi 1.5 and SDOJ here:
http://www.famitsu.com/news/201205/17014608.html (http://www.famitsu.com/news/201205/17014608.html)
Some details:
・Mushi 1.5 will be their last package release, and they are considering new platforms
・This was news to me: the Mushi Arrange in Mushihimesama HD is an "improved" version of the PS2 Arrange Mode. I had assumed it was the same thing, but this piques my interest.
・SDOJ was very well-received, but it will be their last arcade PCB. They are considering NESSiCA but have no plans at the moment.
・When asked what he will be working on in the future, Ikeda says that the company as a whole has to focus on games where players connect with each other, and he will be making games that are a little different than what he's previously made.
(http://i.imgur.com/PN95F.jpg)
They had a good run.
But I would be upset if they never port Saidaioujou. Ibara + Kuro would be nice too...
assuming that Saidai runs on the same board as DOJ then i'm guessing it'll be Mame to the rescue seeing as DOJ and Black Label are both emulated.
SDOJ is on the SH3 hardware (DOJ was PGM). SH3 was emulated last year, but overall it wasn't really playable since the games had no slowdown (or terribly inaccurate slowdown) and tons of input lag. Then Cave asked them to stop, and that was the end of that. One of the MAME devs was saying that the emulation was about as good as they could get it, so I won't be holding my breath for that any time soon.
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wasnt cave living off the animu plachinko model to fund their games
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Come on Aruze, you know you want to acquire those sweet loli licenses
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I got really into Cave in the PS2 era with DDP DOJ. I'd never really played bullet hell shmups more than occasionally in an arcade and I always thought they were some unapproachable barrier games where only the most hardcore of the hardcore could play them with so many bullets abound. Then when I gave DDP DOJ a shot I learned that these games weren't all that hard, at least in the first few stages, because your hitboxes is incredibly small. That begun my enjoyment of the thrill of moving a 1 pixel dot around a screen a 1000 bullets. I played Espgaluda after that and it was even better with it's creative mechanics that let you make the game easier for a few seconds when you really needed it.
I became a Cave fan and picked up and learned each of their games. How the mechanics work, how the stages are laid out, the differences between modes, how to score. They were one of my main reasons besides Mistwalker rpgs for getting a J360. Now that my J360 is dead, I'm glad most of Cave's X360 stuff has been region free or released domestically so I can still play them on my US360.
It was also exciting looking forward to the next Cave shmup. Their spritework was incredible and probably the best modern 2d work being done outside the Super Robot Wars team this decade. Their soundtracks kicked ass, and each game had really unique and interesting gameplay systems that made it more than your typical "fly up straight and dodge bullets" shmup. Towards the end of this gen, when their output kind of dropped off the map after Akai Katana, I was a little worried. Now that they're gone I'm sad.
But I'll remember them for the great company they were and will keep dodging bullets in their games for decades to come.
It would be nice if the bulk of the talent went over and got jobs at GREV or whoever else still makes shmups and increases the quality of those companies outputs. Cave was always leaps and bounds above the rest of the shmup developers in pure fun.
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If only they made more Wii and DS titles they'd be thriving today
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They're not completely dead yet, they could still release shooters on the Nessica platform like Grev did with Strania. But Ikeda's words aren't exactly encouraging.
I think the best case scenario would be having their shooter team bail out and form their own group (like the Grev guys did when Taito stopped making arcade games), but at this point guys like Ikeda, Yagawa, and Ichimura might just be done with it. They're too old for this shit. :lol
Honestly, Cave's biggest problem is that they just did whatever the fuck they wanted. Cobbling together their own weird PC platform for Death Smiles II, making Instant Brain, having Yagawa develop three bombs in a row, making a new IP with Akai Katana instead of a sequel to a popular series. All dumb moves, financially speaking.
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They're dead. Let it go.
They cancelled all their known current projects and the head guy of the company resigned. They'd been struggling and screwed for a while now. This is the final straw. They're gone. Any company that remains will be a different company making facebook apps and stuff. I'd assume most of the staff who care about making shmups over getting paychecks will leave and try to find work elsewhere.
Let's just remember them for who they were and not the hollow shell they will be from here on out.
I actually thought this same thing was going to happen to Nippon Ichi last year, but somehow they've managed to survive a little longer with a restructured plan. If that doesn't work, this will be N1 in a year.
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Yikes...
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It's a shame. I've really enjoyed the iOS ports of their games
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Silly bull-headed japanese company. Adapt or die.
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Silly bull-headed japanese company. Adapt or die.
They tried. Look at all those pantsu!!
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AKAI KATANA IS GOOD! FUK YA'LLLLLLLLLLLLLLLL :*(
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Well at least they went out on a relatively high note then Re: Akai Katana.
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The Wii did get Shikigami no Shiro 3 for some reason. I wonder how it sold in comparison to the 360 version in Japan.
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Cave's PS2 games didn't sell any better than their 360 games though. The audience is always limited to 10-30k (even for cheap downloadable games, like Strania and Guwange), more or less, and these people buy any console that winds up being the home of the shooters.
Grev tested the PS3 waters with Mamoru-kun and Under Defeat, but neither game made much of a splash and probably sold better on 360 anyway.
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Silly bull-headed japanese company. Adapt or die.
by doing what? moar sandbox games?
yay for the death of variety :smug
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Man, I saw this shit coming years ago. At least we got a good farewell with SDOJ. They should just release the goddamn 1st-print 360 DLC and charge for it, but they've never really made sensible business decisions, I suppose.
Their real mistake, though, was not supporting the PS3 in addition to the 360.
Yeah man, the PS3 def would have saved them! Cave was just lazy! Sure, Sony refuses games that aren't in HD-widescreen, but I'm sure they could have just easily remade and rebalanced their games to have proper widescreen support. Hell, they could have just stretched the image, I'm sure Sony would have accepted that! Yeah, all of their fans would be pissed off and probably not buy the game do to it being a mutilated piece of crap, but I'm sure all of those casual PS3 owners would have made up for it, we know how much they love them danmaku games! I guess it would have appealed to those whiners who kept complaining about the lack of shooters for the PS3 but refused to buy a 360, doing such a thing would be admitting defeat!
The PS3's strict rules for these types of games would have been way too much effort for very little gain.
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I wasn't aware of Sony's particular rules on this, and I never called Cave lazy, so stop being an utter taco.
I just thought having their games available on a system sold outside of Japan's five biggest cities might have been of some benefit to them. I apologize for the grievous injuries I've caused you, Miss Frillybeaver.
The comment wasn't really directed at you, I guess you must not notice some of my posts since I often write like that, especially when talking about Cave. I got nothin but love for fellow J-Bore!
I'm not happy to see the end of an era, but if nothing else the PC doujin market will survive and a lot of those games are more creative than the mundane shit that Cave has been putting out the past few years. I'm somewhat happy that Instant Brain flopped since it'll discourage them from going down the road of generic ADV.
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Did Cave ever port any of their games to PSP? AFAIK Sony never had any kind of "widescreen only" requirement for that.
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Yeah, but putting games on PSP is its own kettle of retail death.
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Yeah, but putting games on PSP is its own kettle of retail death.
In Japan? Explain.
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getting a j360 isn't that hard. y'all just too soft n casual.
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I think shmups making X360 their market was even dumber than shmups making Dreamcast their market.
I love shmups but I swear the shmup fanbase are the hipsters of gaming. If you aren't making Dreamcast games in 2012, then you're selling out, man! ::)
http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/redux/redux-dark-matters-a-shmup-for-sega-dreamcast
Obviously putting stuff on PS3 would have required a little effort and working with Sony, but so does working with any console maker on the market. MS has restrictive policies as well for the little guys like minimum print runs for instance. And that kind of stuff is what kills profit for some of these guys.
It also wouldn't have hurt to make the games more accessible to the mainstream market to increase awareness and get extra sales. I thought their iOS stuff did really well early on. Keeping shmups as this "secret underground club of cool dudes" is what kills shmups. And by "making them more accessible" I don't mean sticking lolis and focusing on the shrinking otaku market like Cave and others did. That was another bad decision. Almost everyone who focused on appealing to the otakus is screwed outside Bandai with idolm@ster (which works because it's a mass appeal game with mass marketing); it's a shrinking market you can't depend on that alienates all the rest of the market which is growing.
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Cave has been trying to make their games more accessible since like 2006, by making them easy to clear, but hard to score well on with games like Futari Original, Muchi Pork's first loop, Death Smiles 1& 2, Akai Katana, and Daifukkatsu (with Strong). Then they put Novice modes and Arrange modes into their console ports (almost every Arrange is significantly easier than the original game). What else can they do? Shooters have been on life support for ages now; it's the same very small fanbase that keeps on buying the games, and that fanbase is so small that they can't afford to keep the last big developer alive.
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Star Wars 2D shooter.
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Yeah, but putting games on PSP is its own kettle of retail death.
In Japan? Explain.
Are we just talking about Japan? I thought we were discussing Cave's failure to address the worldwide market. PSP in Japan-only sales... I guess it's alright, but I'll defer to someone with numbers.
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I thought we were discussing Cave's failure to address the worldwide market.
This is mostly Microsoft's fault. They require a 50,000 minimum print run in NA (dunno about Europe), and selling that many copies of a game that the average person thinks should be $5 on XBLA is pretty hard.
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Really though, I can't imagine the games moving any significant amount in NA regardless of system. I think going the GoD route was probably the best idea, too bad there was barely any exposure.