THE BORE
General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: TVC15 on January 07, 2007, 10:03:48 PM
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Metroidvania is dead. It was good in SotN but everything since has been a pale imitation that has failed to advance the series. Castlevania games used to be about challenge. Metroidvania has nothing approaching challenge. Metroidvania's lazy design strategy of corridor-room-corridor-room with no platforming challenges has influenced the design of 2 incredibly poor 3d Castlevanias.
Metroidvania needs to be put out to pasture. The Metroidvania games aren't even as good looking as Super Castlevania 4. They have these long, Hanna Barbara-style repeating backgrounds that are ludicrously cheezy. What little platforming is there is ruined by the lack of weight to it. If you fall, you don't die, and the platforming is so ridiculously simple and by the books that it is unlikely you will fall to begin with.
Sure, the moves are cool and the controls are smooth, but what purpose is served without there being anything that resembles challenge? The bosses are big and cool looking, and the castles are enormous, but it's all for naught when you're playing a game a 7 year old would be pressed to have trouble with. All the equipment, items, soul collecting, familiars, non-linearity, mapping, all these things added to the series, yet without challenge and weight the games are just a shell of what the series used to be.
I will admit, I liked the Metroidvanias at first. I have skipped only the most recent one because I am tired of them. They are like gaming crack, they're easy to plow through and the experience is usually compulsive enough to propel you through a quick playthrough. But remember, crack is BAD, and these games are bad. I can play Super Castlevania now and see that it is still great, but if I pop in one of the GBA games, I will see that without the novelty of new gameness, it is poorly designed shit.
IGA has to die. He needs to be killed for his sin. Metroidvania is like the Holocaust of gaming - it seemed like a good idea at teh time, but a few years later, the smart people are willing to admit that it wasn't so bright.
DEATH TO METROIDVANIA! LONG LIVE THE NEW FLESH!
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Blah blah I heard this before Live! in concert and it still wasn't a compelling argument.
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I will join this movement.
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Portrait of Ruin has platforming and linear segments, SIR
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Oh shit - I was going to move on to a Metroidvania as my next Castlevania after Super Castlevania 4, but the challenge is gone? Fuck that, with the music and the bitter unforgiven challenge the game was ace.
TVC we gotta stop buying Wii points :(
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I'm gonna buy Portrait of Ruin just to tell Konami that I want MORE
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demi, :heart
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Blah blah I heard this before Live! in concert and it still wasn't a compelling argument.
Enjoy paying for the exact same game, with its shitty graphics, animu, no challenge, and non-compelling design EVERY YEAR!
Some of us like gameplay. YOU HATE GAMING.
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and demi you don't pay for games you are not fooling anyone
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Blah blah I heard this before Live! in concert and it still wasn't a compelling argument.
Enjoy paying for the exact same game, with its shitty graphics, animu, no challenge, and non-compelling design EVERY YEAR!
Some of us like gameplay. YOU HATE GAMING.
Dude, I will buy every DYNASTY WARRIORS GAME THEY CAN MAKE
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I didn't say I would buy it now... fuck.
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Blah blah I heard this before Live! in concert and it still wasn't a compelling argument.
Enjoy paying for the exact same game, with its shitty graphics, animu, no challenge, and non-compelling design EVERY YEAR!
Some of us like gameplay. YOU HATE GAMING.
Dude, I will buy every DYNASTY WARRIORS GAME THEY CAN MAKE
That's different. Those are (usually) good games.
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So are all the Metroidvania games, honkie!
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I'm just sick of the formula. :-\
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So are all the Metroidvania games, honkie!
Sorry, lazy design is a different story between Dynasty Warriors and Castlevania. With DW, we don't know what a well designed entry would be like. With Castlevania, we've had games with good design, levels, and graphics, and having these lame imitations in their place isn't something we are happy about putting up with.
Those GBA-quality pieces of crap don't even have memorable tunes. Or good sound quality. Castlevania IN NAME ONLY. TOTAL PIECES OF SHIT. DEATH TO IGA!
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TVC: dont lecture me on how I spend my gaming money when you own both a Wii and PS3 lolz. You basically told two companies its ok to release half-baked consoles with one good game.
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I think the Metroidvania games have great design -- what the series lost in platforming, it made up for with exploration and more interesting enemies. Plus the Yuzo Koshiro soundtrack in Portrait is OMG OMG OMG, and SotN has THE BEST MUSIC OF ALL TIME IN A VIDEOGAME. In your face, old school!
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TVC: dont lecture me on how I spend my gaming money when you own both a Wii and PS3 lolz. You basically told two companies its ok to release half-baked consoles with one good game.
One good game? You mean what the Metroidvania series has failed to produce, aside from the original?
Also, last I checked I am playing the game on the Wii, which means the Wii has more good Castlevania games than the GBA or DS has. And I paid less for it, even!
You pansies just like easy games. The Playstation Era mass marketization of gaming has made the games themselves easy pieces of crap, and you folks like it.
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Haha yes, lets ignore your 850 dollars in purchases for the 100 or so ive spent on castlevania for GBA/DS
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lolz ps3
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Haha yes, lets ignore your 850 dollars in purchases for the 100 or so ive spent on castlevania for GBA/DS
I'm paying for potential. You are paying for SHIT.
I won't deny that I like having new, fancy toys. I'm not disappointed with either purchase at the moment, although if anyone can piss on my consumer electronicsgasm, it is Sony. I knew what I was getting into.
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The Playstation 2 is the greatest console of all time, and better than the SNES/Genny/TG-16 combined!
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Portrait of Ruin is awesome - put up or shut up.
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PoR is indeed the shiz, although MAN I wish they'd ditch the animu portraits. Someone tell Iga to go down on Ayame Kojima and get the crazy bishie acrylic work back!
Also, SCV4 excluded, Dawn of Sorrow is better than every other linear Castlevania. Yes, even better than Rondo of Blood.
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Youre paying for shit lol. Wii, come on. Ps3? lol.
distinguished mentally-challenged fellows own those systems.
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Yes, pointing out what systems I have paid for really explains how bad the Castlevania series has gotten. Totally relevant to the discussion.
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How bad it's gotten? How quickly we forget Castlevania 2, one of the worst games ever made, or the modern unplayability of the original. 3 and Rondo are decent if dated, and only 4 really stands the test of time. ALL of the Metroidvanias remain great -- yes, even Harmony, the weakest of the series. Hell, Circle of the Moon is harder than every decent linear Castlevania made!
Also, why don't you own Castlevania Chronicles for the PSOne? It contains a remix of the original MSX Vampire Killer with new levels and bosses! It would give you something to play on your PS3 -- badly upscaled, but entertaining nonetheless!
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I think ill just point out that if youre willing to pay for potential, you should loan me 1000 dollars, cause I COULD be a millionare someday and PAY U BAK x 10!
TVC doesnt own chronicles cause he isnt a true fan.
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3D Castlevania AND 3D Metroid need to die.
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I actually liked 2 when it came out. I even beat it on my own, heh. Without help. Somehow. I'll do the game a service and not play it again, though.
1 and 3 are both fantastic games. I don't get where you are coming from saying that the first one is unplayable. It's one of the very few NES games that I still enjoy. Sure, it was before they got the mechanics down, so there were some bits that were unfair, but it's overall an excellent game, deserving of its classic status. And 3 has some of the most memorable levels in the series! It's fantastic (and maybe the actual best in the series).
I can't comment on Rondo or Bloodlines. I haven't played em. And isn't Castlevania Chronicles kinda rare? I believe I was super poor when it came out. When was the game it contains made?
Also 3d Metroid > 2d Metroidvania. Just sayin'
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lol
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Also 3d Metroid > 2d Metroidvania.
now you've done it. i'm pissing in your diet mountain dew tomorrow.
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Bloodlines was really good; forgot about that one.
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Also 3d Metroid > 2d Metroidvania.
now you've done it. i'm pissing in your diet mountain dew tomorrow.
3d Metroid (the first one at least) has pretty visuals (for the system it's on), pretty diverse environments, and actual platforming, 3 things Metroidvanias do not have!
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it has some other things the metroidvanias don't have: scanning, terrible controls, stupid visors, and godawful boss fights!
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it has some other things the metroidvanias don't have: scanning, terrible controls, stupid visors, and godawful boss fights!
I'm no big defender of the game, although I do want to give it another shot, but the boss encounters are one of the things I remember being pretty well done. And while there are some question marks about the controls, I don't think they're that bad. I think the game almost really succeeded at being a 3d Metroid. All things considered, it was a good first attempt at something very tricky.
Anyway, I figured Metroid Prime would be right up your ally since you apparently like games that can be beaten by infants.
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:o :o :o :o :o :o :o :o
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The Thardus and Omega Pirate fights are janky exercises in visor/weapon swapping and ultimately about as fun as trying to finger a cheeseburger.
Metroid Prime wasn't an easy game -- which you'd know if you were capable of beating it!
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Was Thardus the rock guy? I liked that fight, a lot, actually. That was the first boss I thought of. ANd I *did* forget about Omega Pirate.
And yes, it was largely an easy game. Unless I am forgetting anything, one long stretch without save points and the omega pirate were it as far as difficulty went.
Visor and weapon switching were lame. So was scanning. Those are largely why I do not remember the whole game fondly. The jumping and platforming were pretty well done.
They only reason I stopped playing was because it kept freezing my gamepube at extremely specific parts.
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Freezing? The streaming in that game BROKE my first Gamecube!
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Lol
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Freezing? The streaming in that game BROKE my first Gamecube!
Stop lying. Nintendo hardware is always perfect. Break, psh.
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I had Rushmore from GAF take it in for me!
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This is officially a joke thread. Whether or not it was intended to be funny. lol
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Portrait of Ruin owns.
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Lookie, metroidvania fans are LIARS.
And MAF, there are a growing number of Castlevania fans that are WAKING UP from the Metroidvania Matrix of Shit. Soon our voices will be LOUD. We don't want warmed over, effortless yearly updates. We want something well-crafted, something someone had to THINK ABOUT designing.
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My favorite game in the series is Super Castlevania.
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White Man, PoR has puzzles, platforming, linearity, and ACTUAL DIFFICULTY. Quite possibly the best Metroidvania and your'e shitting on it without trying it.
You disappoint me. :-\
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He likes Metroid Prime, man. He can't be trusted.
I think he liked Shenmue, too!
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Yamane-san is not only a fantastic composer, she carries a hip flask full of whisky and a pedometer with her at all times. She swills alcohol, keeps in shape, and composes phatty beats. What a MILF! :heartbeat I want her around after your revolution, TVC 15.
IGA, however, can go hang out in the Itagaki Hall of Shame.
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I'd try it but I do not have a DS at the moment. Since it's an Iga game, I'll continue to not get my hopes up. Everyone always says the latest is the best metroidvania, at least at first.
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I think he liked Shenmue, too!
Hey :(
Everyone always says the latest is the best metroidvania, at least at first.
Those are the tools. I remember when DoS came out and people said it was the best. I lol'ed
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Metroidvanias have the funniest enemy and item descriptions ever.
Shit like: "A healthy treat made from whole wheat", "May give the illusion of increased muscle mass", "An atrocious eagle that carries Ripper with it"
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Ninthings called DoS the best because they wanted SotN -- a Playstation premium -- to get trumped. Doesn't mean DoS wasn't really good, though.
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Ninthings called DoS the best because they wanted SotN -- a Playstation premium -- to get trumped. Doesn't mean DoS wasn't really good, though.
I thought it was alright but it was pretty lacking imo. It was mostly because it was a goddamn rehash.
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I thought it was alright but it was pretty lacking imo. It was mostly because it was a goddamn rehash.
DoS was not nearly as good as Aria of Sorrow. All the others were fairly obviously incremental improvements, though the portable Metroidvania formula didn't really get nailed down until Aria. Circle is still fun, in a weirdly hardcore way. Harmony is pure trash.
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DoS rocked my world because It was the frist Metroidvania I had played since SotN and I hadnt played Aria yet
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I liked DoS better than Aria -- in fact, Aria's probably my least favorite Metroidvania. Harmony had some nasty music and backtracking, but I loved the massive dual castle and the exploration.
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I liked DoS better than Aria -- in fact, Aria's probably my least favorite Metroidvania. Harmony had some nasty music and backtracking, but I loved the massive dual castle and the exploration.
Aria's my MOST favorite! Take that!
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Why!
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I liked DoS better than Aria -- in fact, Aria's probably my least favorite Metroidvania. Harmony had some nasty music and backtracking, but I loved the massive dual castle and the exploration.
I fucken loved the music in Harmony, it was really zany and shit. For some reason the Shrine of the Apostles music made me think of Batman
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Which order did they come out in? I remember them in terms of The First One, The Second One, etc, since none of them have very distinct identities aside from Circle of the Moon (The First One). I know The Second One is the worst because the music is unlistenable due to its extremely poor quality.
One of the biggest problems with them is that the games do not have individual identities, but I guess that's what happens when you release one every goddamned year. Simon Belmont's Pro Skater confirmed.
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I know The Second One is the worst because the music is unlistenable due to its extremely poor quality.
I fucken loved the music in Harmony, it was really zany and shit. For some reason the Shrine of the Apostles music made me think of Batman
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Aria had variety in level design, great music, an actually interesting story (somewhat, but the SHOCKU PLOT TWIST was worth it I think), a harder difficulty, and it gains points for actually doing something fresh - something DoS completely lifted off from AoS with little improvements.
The best thing about DoS was Julius Mode..which rocked HARDCORE, and was ever better than the main game.
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Anyway, The Third One is my favorite, not counting CoM because it's been years since I touched it.
The Third One
The DS One
The Second One
That's my order.
And stop fooling yourself Himu, there's no such thing as a Castlevania with an interesting story. And that's the way it should be. We don't play these things for their stories. We wanna KILL.
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One of the biggest problems with them is that the games do not have individual identities, but I guess that's what happens when you release one every goddamned year. Simon Belmont's Pro Skater confirmed.
I always like it when people say this. They say it about Final Fantasy too, despite each new entry's big contrast from the one before it.
Harmony is hardly anything like Aria. Circle has it's own thing going on. Aria is most comparable to SotN due to the fact the main character can use any weapon rather than a whip.
It's always GREAT when people say stuff like,"Every one of the games has no identity! They all play the same! wah wah wee wah!" when there's enough differences to cause players to play differently. The BEST part of these utterly hilarious claims is that they themselves absolutely praise and worship some of the more rehashed game series out there. Hey White Man, how's that Super Mario Bros for you? You liking Super Mario Bros. 2, 3, and World? I bet you are, you swindling pile of contradicions.
You don't seem to mind the milking and rehashed nature of Mario, White Man! YOU'RE AN NTARD CONFIRMED.
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And stop fooling yourself Himu, there's no such thing as a Castlevania with an interesting story. And that's the way it should be. We don't play these things for their stories. We wanna KILL.
The fact you found out Soma was basically Dracula was just utterly bad ass to me.
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One of the biggest problems with them is that the games do not have individual identities, but I guess that's what happens when you release one every goddamned year. Simon Belmont's Pro Skater confirmed.
I always like it when people say this. They say it about Final Fantasy too, despite each new entry's big contrast from the one before it.
Um, but *I* don't say it about Final Fantasy. Point shot down. Castlevania and FF are different games, SHOKKU! FF also doesn't release a game every year.
Harmony is hardly anything like Aria. Circle has it's own thing going on. Aria is most comparable to SotN due to the fact the main character can use any weapon rather than a whip.
Great. I can't tell the games apart. I can't even keep their names straight. They may as well be numbered.
It's always GREAT when people say stuff like,"Every one of the games has no identity! They all play the same! wah wah wee wah!" when there's enough differences to cause players to play differently. The BEST part of these utterly hilarious claims is that they themselves absolutely praise and worship some of the more rehashed game series out there. Hey White Man, how's that Super Mario Bros for you? You liking Super Mario Bros. 2, 3, and World? I bet you are, you swindling pile of contradicions.
I love the Mario games. All the ones you named play differently while maintaining the same core mechanics. All the recent Castlevania games play exactly the same with the same core mechanics. And once again, I am criticizing Castlevania, not any other series.
And that's without mentioning the gameplay. The Mario games are all well-designed, while the Metroidvanias stick to the same ol' same ol' cookie cutter design. And that design philosophy will never change as long as people like you continue to vote with your dollars. As long as you keep paying, that hack Iga gets to keep feeding you people his crap filler games.
You don't seem to mind the milking and rehashed nature of Mario, White Man! YOU'RE AN NTARD CONFIRMED.
Mario games don't come out every year (not counting rereleases, which I despise). And all of the main games are rather different than their predecessor, not including Japanese SMB2 and SMS. You can't pin these opinions on me, Himu. Go look for some sailors.
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I had super mario all stars, a good collection of games.
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I had super mario all stars, a good collection of games.
At the time that came out, I did not like Japanese SMB2. I would like to give it a shot today.
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Man I'm replaying SC4 jesus christ the music is fuck awesome :rock.
...so which Castlevania game should I move on to now though? I guess I'm torn because obviously people love one version (metroidvania) or the other (original whip whip).
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Do you have a dS? If so, get PoR.
If you don't have a DS, dl the rom for Aria of Sorrow. I know I rarely ever accept piracy, but when wanting to try something out just to see what it's like, I suggest that move highly.
In fact, that's how I got into CV. I randomly dled AoS and got hooked.
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I love the Mario games. All the ones you named play differently while maintaining the same core mechanics. All the recent Castlevania games play exactly the same with the same core mechanics. And once again, I am criticizing Castlevania, not any other series.
And that's without mentioning the gameplay. The Mario games are all well-designed, while the Metroidvanias stick to the same ol' same ol' cookie cutter design. And that design philosophy will never change as long as people like you continue to vote with your dollars. As long as you keep paying, that hack Iga gets to keep feeding you people his crap filler games.
The only two metroidvania games that played similarly were aria of sorrow and dawn of sorrow. The others all have radically different play mechanics
And design is such a broad term. when you say mario games are well designed and metroidvanias have a cookie cutter design what exactly do you mean?
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Do you have a dS? If so, get PoR.
If you don't have a DS, dl the rom for Aria of Sorrow. I know I rarely ever accept piracy, but when wanting to try something out just to see what it's like, I suggest that move highly.
In fact, that's how I got into CV. I randomly dled AoS and got hooked.
:heart
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The only two metroidvania games that played similarly were aria of sorrow and dawn of sorrow. The others all have radically different play mechanics
We'll have to agree to disagree on this one.
And design is such a broad term. when you say mario games are well designed and metroidvanias have a cookie cutter design what exactly do you mean?
When I mention design I am referring to the thoughtless corridor-room-corridor design. A long hallway followed by a linear, pretty much straight room, little use of jumping outside of combat. ALL of the Metroidvania games use it extensively. I can probably randomly take a room from any of the games, show it to you, and ask you which game it came from and you would not be able to answer.
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When I mention design I am referring to the thoughtless corridor-room-corridor design. A long hallway followed by a linear, pretty much straight room, little use of jumping outside of combat. ALL of the Metroidvania games use it extensively. I can probably randomly take a room from any of the games, show it to you, and ask you which game it came from and you would not be able to answer.
We should put this to the test! And rename the thread TVC 15's Metroidvania Screenshot Trivia lol
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For all the guff Metroivania's get, the love for Metroid's is ridiculous. Every damn game is the same and they all of them even bother to recycle the same damn weapons every time.
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For all the guff Metroivania's get, the love for Metroid's is ridiculous. Every damn game is the same and they all of them even bother to recycle the same damn weapons every time.
I dunno. Super Metroid is great. It feels like the original game DONE RIGHT. It makes you remember the first game but also makes it so much better.
Metroid 2 for the GB is a rather different game. Some people like it best, but the lack of color made it difficult for me to play. I cannot fairly comment.
Metroid Prime is very different. I've shared my conflicted ideas on the game in the post above. I have not played the sequel, mainly because I had no GC and I have written it off as inferior due to the comments of others.
Fusion is a very nice game, and while it includes a lot of the things from previous games, it tosses in a lot of new ideas and weapons, too. It has a more level-y structure and is still pretty challenging. Probably my favorite in the series, although nostalgia makes Super look very nice.
Zero Mission is a good remake, but too easy. At first it looks like all roses, but then you notice it has a Metroidvania difficulty level.
Overall, a good series. The 3d games are the only real missteps, and I don't think they are so awful that they can't be corrected.
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Fusion is awesome. Zero mission is also very good. I want a metroid 2 remake, I had it for gb.
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Fusion is awesome. Zero mission is also very good. I want a metroid 2 remake, I had it for gb.
Yeah, I could live without a map, but when you take away distinctive colors, I am totally lost.
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I liked the whole "oh noes evil samus is gonna kill me! I gotta run away!" aspect of fusion which makes it one of the better metroids lately.
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I liked the whole "oh noes evil samus is gonna kill me! I gotta run away!" aspect of fusion which makes it one of the better metroids lately.
Yea, that was so fucking great. I would shit my pants if I heard the door open in a room.
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I liked the stealth section of Metroid Zero Mission. It made the part where you get your suit all the more satisfying.
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Yeah I'm definitely more bored with the 2d Metroids than I am with the new Castlevanias--moreover, I think CV has more potential in terms of exploiting the formula in the first place; the difference is, we've been getting a bunch of CVs and very few Metroids in comparison.
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I don't have a problem with the design philosophy of the Metroidvania games, the problem I have with them is that they are TOO EASY. At least the 2 the I've played, SOTN and AOS.