I try to have empathy. I try to understand where people are coming from. I really do. But I cannot understand this position one bit. It boggles my fucking mind.
Samples from convo tonight:
Her: taxation is theft. I support space travel but don't think the government should steal people's money to do it. Private enterprise should lead the way in space travel.
Me: Okay, assuming private sector funded space travel, where would they get their funds?
Her: I don't know.
Me: You ride the bus, right? How do you think that bus was created and complementary to the city layout so that the buses operate to cover the entirety of the city?
Her: Engineers.
Me: Who paid the engineers to place the buses in the city streets and pay the urban planners to come up with a strategy of placing the bus systems?
Her: I did, and other tax payers. the same as I pay Nike to make my sneakers.
Me: So what's the problem?
Her: Because I don't have a choice in the buses and they steal from me.
Me: If you are paying for something and using it as a resource, in what way is it theft?
Her: I have a choice between Nike and Vans.
Me: So how does the government merely allow 300 million people the option to choose to pay taxes or not? How do things like these buses and freeways get done?
Her: Government creates a monopoly for itself. It makes illegal competition so it forces you to operate in it's system. Haha, you think there weren't buses or freeways before government?
Me: You must really hate Sim City.
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Much later. As an aside, she makes random points about violence even though I never said anything about violence during our entire conversation. Could it have been the beer she was drinking?
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Me: Shouldn't the issue be the american government and not government systems as a whole?
Her: The issue is the manner in which "governments" or more accurately politicians interact with those they claim to govern. Why do I have to associate with 300 million people? How does that even make any sense? We're not some homogeneous blob.
Me: You may not be a homogenous blob, but you're still citizens of the american people.
Her: No I'm not, prove it? I'm ________. I own me. No one else does. Sure everyone is threatening violence and sure I'm not equipped to fight them all off.
Me: Do you an example of any country in the world where libertarian principles have been used in a modern developed country?
Her: Why would it have to be a modern first world country? In any case, you are missing the point. can you give me a modern example of a state that didn't devolve into and empire always at war. A state that protects the freedom of it's citizens? Not one.
Me: For the sake of standards, also Canada has never declared war on any nation ever.
Her: Because they have made a great number of things illegal. They also curtailed a great number of its citizens freedoms and also aided the U.S. in the terror war. Has it expanded and protected the freedoms of its citizens? Or do the numbers of laws against non-violent people keep expanding?
Me: What freedoms are you talking about?
Her: Freedom only means one thing the ability to act without coercion. Can I start a business in Canada without permission? Can I practice medicine?Can I own property - truly own it without fear of it being expropriated by government? Dude, seriously, you're basically saying that you think we should continue to use violence because everyone else does.
Me: Who said anything about violence?
Her: Just because you don't say violence doesn't mean you aren't advocating it. So long as you make excuses for and advocate government which uses violence against it's citizens to enforce dictates you are advocating violence.
Me: I used an example of Canada, which is pretty anti-violence, for the most part.
Her: Canada is also a violent state. Does it tax? Does it make laws against non-violent actions? Does it force it's people to pay for healthcare they don't want?
Me: I have not heard of one canadian who doesn't want healthcare. Who wouldn't want healthcare? And name any developed nation that does not tax.
Her: What does that have to do with anything? Slaver is slavery. Also, I don't want healthcare.
Me: Are you fucking serious?
Her: Yes, I am serious.
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Much, much later
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Her: If you're telling me that living as a subject to the dolts in congress is my only and best choice you are not a friend of mine.
Me: So why don't you move to an island?
Her: First off I shouldn't have to.
Me: Why not? You clearly don't want to contribute to society in any way and view all forms of governments - no matter necessary they are - to be evil. Why don't you sell all of your clothes, become a nomad and join a Brazilian native tribe?
She had no answer to that.
That's not Crossfit. :(
What is the difference between libertarians and anarchists?
You should have punched her right in the fucking nose, and if she called the cops, she'd have to admit to being a hypocrite.
What is the difference between libertarians and anarchists?
Anarchists believe in sharing.
You should have punched her right in the fucking nose, and if she called the cops, she'd have to admit to being a hypocrite.
Because she's potentially date worthy and we're talking about dating.
Tell us more.You should have punched her right in the fucking nose, and if she called the cops, she'd have to admit to being a hypocrite.
Because she's potentially date worthy and we're talking about dating.
DON'T
It ain't worth it, I'm speaking from experience here.
You should have punched her right in the fucking nose, and if she called the cops, she'd have to admit to being a hypocrite.
Because she's potentially date worthy and we're talking about dating.
DON'T
It ain't worth it, I'm speaking from experience here.
Tell us more.
Because she's potentially date worthy and we're talking about dating.
Me: For the sake of standards, also Canada has never declared war on any nation ever.
This answer doesn't apply to anarchists, who will tell you that some benign form of mob justice will keep people behaving. I don't know that anyone seriously keeps believing in anarchy past a certain age
without doing a lot of drugs.
Because she's potentially date worthy and we're talking about dating.
Hope you're ready for a birth control argument!
What is the difference between libertarians and anarchists?
She friended me on fb a couple months ago, and is apparently recently divorced with several kids, and apparently receiving unemployment and food stamps. She "likes" Ron Paul, Ayn Rand and the Libertarian Party, so I doubt she's changed much despite her current status as a leech on society. :smug
True story: I know a straight edge, vegan anarchist that's 30 years old. He's as insufferable as you would expect.
yeah, unless you're willing to full convert, i wouldn't chase this particular rabbit, stringer. you will certainly regret it.
never ever EVER date zealots unless you're a zealot to the same cause, it NEVER works.
yeah, unless you're willing to full convert, i wouldn't chase this particular rabbit, stringer. you will certainly regret it.
never ever EVER date zealots unless you're a zealot to the same cause, it NEVER works.
I don't think of her a zealot. I just see her as like, someone with different political views. My political ideology leans towards democratic socialism so in that respect we're opposites. We still agree with a lot of stuff, even if we disagree on this, but the healthcare bit was just mind boggling to me and it made it hard to take her seriously.
I can forgive him on that one, Boogie. The only time we actually declared war was during WW2, and technically at that time we were really just going hat in hand to the UK and asking if we could pwetty pwease declare war.
This answer doesn't apply to anarchists, who will tell you that some benign form of mob justice will keep people behaving. I don't know that anyone seriously keeps believing in anarchy past a certain age without doing a lot of drugs.
Didn't read and I'm not fucking laughing! BOOM
Didn't read and I'm not fucking laughing! BOOM
(http://i.imgur.com/Zdc3S.gif)
:kylielaffTrue story: I know a straight edge, vegan anarchist that's 30 years old. He's as insufferable as you would expect.
how do you know if you've invited a vegan to your dinner party?
don't worry, he'll tell you.
God that was a good post. Did you make that up?
God that was a good post. Did you make that up?
God that was a good post. Did you make that up?
http://krugman.blogs.nytimes.com/2010/09/23/im-ellsworth-toohey/
Krugman, like Toohey, uses humor as a means of destruction rather than an outlet for human joy. This tactic is integral to the left, they assume superiority of intellect not through debate, but through denigration. Why? I have to conclude their true goal is to crush the soul.
One of the many things I never got about libertarianism was how reducing things like food and water safety regulations, and eliminating the minimum wage as well as removing many other worker protections actually HELPS working class people. ???
One of the many things I never got about libertarianism was how reducing things like food and water safety regulations, and eliminating the minimum wage as well as removing many other worker protections actually HELPS working class people. ???
One of the many things I never got about libertarianism was how reducing things like food and water safety regulations, and eliminating the minimum wage as well as removing many other worker protections actually HELPS working class people. ???
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/395963_10151148858141942_994942372_n.jpg)
One of the many things I never got about libertarianism was how reducing things like food and water safety regulations, and eliminating the minimum wage as well as removing many other worker protections actually HELPS working class people. ???
(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/395963_10151148858141942_994942372_n.jpg)I wonder what jdub thinks of this picture considering that he seems to think that animals are objects and that humans are uniquely awesome due to some magical spark that entered every member of our species at some specific point in our evolutionary history.
One of the many things I never got about libertarianism was how reducing things like food and water safety regulations, and eliminating the minimum wage as well as removing many other worker protections actually HELPS working class people. ???
You're beginning from a false assumption- namely that libertarians are interested in things that "help" working class people. Libertarians are obsessed with everything conforming to their convoluted sense of "fairness". It doesn't matter if the end result is more people being healthy and not dying if it comes from a process that INFRINGES ON MAH LIBERTY.
:-\
I remember he once, in a moment of clarity, expressed doubt about vivisection on chimps. It really stuck with me, because neither he nor anybody else noticed how utterly that one off-hand concession eroded his entire outlook.(http://sphotos-b.xx.fbcdn.net/hphotos-ash4/s480x480/395963_10151148858141942_994942372_n.jpg)I wonder what jdub thinks of this picture considering that he seems to think that animals are objects and that humans are uniquely awesome due to some magical spark that entered every member of our species at some specific point in our evolutionary history.
Edit: That was kind of a cheap shot.
libertarians care more about the process than the results.*I was going to start here and note that it's hardly something exclusive to libertarianism (example: the democratic fetish) but then I realized that I'm a boring dick and actually answering questions is probably better and simpler. (Since I can watch OPERATION DOUBLE 007 instead...is there a recent MST3K thread?)
Sodom and Gomorrah, eat your heart out. So many New Yorkers lined up yesterday for Trojan's free-vibrators-from-hot-dog-carts bonanza that the city was forced to shut down the giveaway, the New York Post reports, to the dismay of the pent-up hordes. (A real person apparently said, "I'm 57 years old. I should be able to get a vibrator!") The "Pleasure Carts" in the Flatiron District and at South Street Seaport were both closed prematurely, not for sinning, but for crowd issues. "This activity promoting Trojan products, which impeded pedestrian and street traffic, did not have a permit," said City Hall in the least sexy statement ever. "Bloomberg doesn't want anyone to have fun," complained one woman. "You can't have a giant soda. You can't have a vibrator." Hasn't the mayor read the Constitution? The people deserve domestic tranquility.
Using the state to grant monopoly power to a private entity is not libertarianism.
I assumed when discussing privatization with Green Shinobi we meant cutting ties, not setting up fascism.
She just sent me a link to mises and said she identifies with being voluntaryist
If it was a private business more people in meaningful postions would be there.
Some dude on facebook completely derailed one of my posts by launching into a diatribe about how taxation is theft. He linked this article: http://mises.org/etexts/taxrob.asp (http://mises.org/etexts/taxrob.asp)
These motherfuckers. Their value system is so batshit insane it's impossible to have a normal conversation with them. It's like discussing stage drama with a Cardassian.
She's a friend of a friend in college. I've never even met her. I keep her around because it makes my fb "interesting".
i just iced her from my friends list.
jesus christ
She sells insurance.
She sells insurance.
Are you talking about the "Voluntaryist" chick who made about 50 posts on Himu's legitimate rape status?
Are you talking about the "Voluntaryist" chick who made about 50 posts on Himu's legitimate rape status?
She sells insurance.
MAD ABOUT GOVERNMENT STEALING MONEY
SELLS INSURANCE
(snip)
She friended me on fb a couple months ago, and is apparently recently divorced with several kids, and apparently receiving unemployment and food stamps. She "likes" Ron Paul, Ayn Rand and the Libertarian Party, so I doubt she's changed much despite her current status as a leech on society. :smug