THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: ManaByte on August 24, 2012, 07:20:53 PM

Title: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: ManaByte on August 24, 2012, 07:20:53 PM
http://www.macrumors.com/2012/08/24/jury-reaches-verdict-in-apple-vs-samsung-trial/

And Apple gets $1 billion from Samsung.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Diunx on August 24, 2012, 07:25:08 PM
:piss US patent laws :piss2
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 24, 2012, 07:29:10 PM
patent laws :lol

The software ones bother me the most.
Title: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Huff on August 24, 2012, 09:53:53 PM
Who knew rounded edges were so sacred
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Human Snorenado on August 24, 2012, 11:44:41 PM
HOLY SHIT YOU DON'T SAY
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Purple Filth on August 25, 2012, 12:37:06 AM
I wonder how Andrex is taking this  :lol
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: BlackMage on August 25, 2012, 12:39:45 AM
fuck that jury. wow
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Snuflupagulus on August 25, 2012, 12:41:15 AM
If this kills Touch Wiz than Samsung Android owners owe Apple a heartfelt handshake and hug.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Himu on August 25, 2012, 01:01:43 AM
Thanks for convincing me to buy a Galaxy S3, Apple!
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: pilonv1 on August 25, 2012, 01:10:29 AM
fuck that jury. wow

Having a jury on a patent case is all sorts of dumb.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Eel O'Brian on August 25, 2012, 01:43:42 AM
that pinch to zoom thing is gonna straight fuck a lot of tablet stuff
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Himu on August 25, 2012, 01:46:33 AM
Might as well patent mouse clicks and keyboard keys.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 25, 2012, 02:15:17 AM
that pinch to zoom thing is gonna straight fuck a lot of tablet stuff
Pinch to zoom AND tap to zoom. Fucking ridiculous.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 25, 2012, 02:21:35 AM
If only Xerox had learned to wield patents like Apple.  :'(
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 25, 2012, 02:24:48 AM
I wonder how Andrex is taking this  :lol

It doesn't matter to me because it doesn't really change much. I was pissed with the Galaxy Nexus injunction but injunctions demand a separate level of outrage.

Really, a lot of Samsung's CrapWiz and their recent industrial design was probably intentionally taken from Apple. Apple suing over those phones don't bother me because they deviate from Android so much. (That was another reason the GN injunction pissed me off. The GN is stock Android.)

It's kind of effed Microsoft was able to blatantly rip off Mac OS and get not much more than a slap on the wrist in the 90's, while the patent wars are on the verge of going nuclear today.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 25, 2012, 02:26:36 AM
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Computer,_Inc._v._Microsoft_Corporation

Apple Computer, Inc. v. Microsoft Corporation, 35 F.3d 1435 (9th Cir. 1994) was a copyright infringement lawsuit in which Apple Computer, Inc. (now Apple Inc.) sought to prevent Microsoft and Hewlett-Packard from using visual graphical user interface (GUI) elements that were similar to those in Apple's Lisa and Macintosh operating systems. The court ruled that, "Apple cannot get patent-like protection for the idea of a graphical user interface, or the idea of a desktop metaphor [under copyright law]..."

RIP technological innovation :'(
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Momo on August 25, 2012, 03:10:43 AM
Oh wow :lol
Title: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Shaka Khan on August 25, 2012, 03:28:13 AM
This is getting ridiculous. How long before they hound whoever is using something as basic as rubber-band/momentum touch scrolling? I remember them being very proud of it in 2007. Even Steve declared "and yes, we patented it" during the OG iPhone reveal.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Himu on August 25, 2012, 03:32:29 AM
who patented doube clicking with mice
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: naff on August 25, 2012, 06:27:05 AM
This is getting ridiculous. How long before they hound whoever is using something as basic as rubber-band/momentum touch scrolling? I remember them being very proud of it in 2007. Even Steve declared "and yes, we patented it" during the OG iPhone reveal.

Yeah, I'm pretty sure they included that patent for the 'bounce' when reaching the bottom of a page asa bullet point against Samsung in this recent lawsuit. Reading Tim Wu's 'Rise and Fall of Information Empires' at the moment, it amazes me that with such a rich history of patent litigation and corporate warfare cases like this still seem so badly handled. Having a jury of some regular joes deciding the outcome in cases like this is hilarious.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on August 25, 2012, 09:10:48 AM
Your airplane has two wings too? Sued.

I'm never buying fucking apple shit ever. My Galaxy S2 > iPhone 4GS.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 25, 2012, 11:08:09 AM
I just patented breathing, guys. Better start coughing up some money fast.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: brawndolicious on August 25, 2012, 11:25:54 AM
True innovation has to be protected by law. No other way around it.

So if Google/Motorola bent Apple backwards and got an injunction on the iPhone5 due to 3G or notification system patents, you'd be totally fine with that right?
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Great Rumbler on August 25, 2012, 12:19:02 PM
So who do we hate here? The company coming up with original ideas or the company stealing them? I'm confused.

Well, I think the problem is that this is somewhat akin to patenting wheels on a car and then suing people who don't use some other method.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 25, 2012, 12:27:01 PM
So who do we hate here? The company coming up with original ideas or the company stealing them? I'm confused.
the software patent system
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Momo on August 25, 2012, 12:35:07 PM
So who do we hate here? The company coming up with original ideas or the company stealing them? I'm confused.
the software patent system
yup
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Diunx on August 25, 2012, 04:02:41 PM
I have never been so proud of being an Apple hater.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: SantaC on August 25, 2012, 04:22:44 PM
I am pretty sure mobile phones had round edges Before IPhone, no?

Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 25, 2012, 04:51:55 PM
I have never been so proud of being an Apple hater.

I feel the same way, unsurprisingly.

I wonder if this is how Apple fans felt in the 90's when Microsoft was sued by Netscape.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: ManaByte on August 25, 2012, 05:26:29 PM
I am pretty sure mobile phones had round edges Before IPhone, no?



That's the '889 patent, which is the one they said Samsung didn't infringe on.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: HyperZoneWasAwesome on August 25, 2012, 11:00:46 PM
Namco is the reason we can't play a mingame during loading sections, right?
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: MCD on August 26, 2012, 12:49:19 AM
Time to stop using a shitty OS, Samsung.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: brawndolicious on August 26, 2012, 12:58:12 AM
Time to stop using a shitty OS, Samsung.

There's rumors that multiple manufacturers will release Nexus phones next year. The pure Android experience will dominate.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Arbys Roast Beef Sandwich on August 26, 2012, 01:01:59 AM
I wish more phone manufacturers would adopt OpenWebOS. That would be awesome. :hyper
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: pilonv1 on August 26, 2012, 01:11:12 AM
So who do we hate here? The company coming up with original ideas or the company stealing them? I'm confused.
the software patent system

:usacry
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 03:04:19 AM
Time to stop copying a shitty OS, Samsung.

Fixed.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Purple Filth on August 26, 2012, 04:43:52 AM
I wonder how Andrex is taking this  :lol

It doesn't matter to me because it doesn't really change much. I was pissed with the Galaxy Nexus injunction but injunctions demand a separate level of outrage.

Really, a lot of Samsung's CrapWiz and their recent industrial design was probably intentionally taken from Apple. Apple suing over those phones don't bother me because they deviate from Android so much. (That was another reason the GN injunction pissed me off. The GN is stock Android.)

It's kind of effed Microsoft was able to blatantly rip off Mac OS and get not much more than a slap on the wrist in the 90's, while the patent wars are on the verge of going nuclear today.

Thought it was more seeing Apple winning again.



So who do we hate here? The company coming up with original ideas or the company stealing them? I'm confused.
the patent system

fixed.

That shit is pretty broken right now with Patent trolling almost becoming the norm.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Dickie Dee on August 26, 2012, 10:24:38 AM
As someone who uses both on a frequent basis,

S3>>>>>> 4S

Also, Apple didn't invent things like multitouch. Most of those technologies were in theoretical phase in the 80s.

how so? i think i'll pick up one of the two soon...
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 12:57:10 PM
S3 is garbage. Get a Galaxy Nexus instead. Google Play version if possible.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 26, 2012, 01:39:20 PM
S3 is garbage. Get a Galaxy Nexus instead. Google Play version if possible.
::)

Stop exaggerating.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 01:46:52 PM
GAR

BAGE

:maf
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 26, 2012, 04:31:36 PM
Pfft
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 26, 2012, 04:37:01 PM
Time to stop copying a shitty OS, Samsung.

Fixed.

you're a moron
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Diunx on August 26, 2012, 04:37:30 PM
The S3 is awesome don't listen to the google stan.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on August 26, 2012, 04:45:49 PM
As someone who uses both on a frequent basis,

S3>>>>>> 4S

Also, Apple didn't invent things like multitouch. Most of those technologies were in theoretical phase in the 80s.

70s
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 04:47:08 PM
Time to stop copying a shitty OS, Samsung.

Fixed.

you're a moron

The only morons are those who buy Apple products. Toy OS's. :teehee
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: ManaByte on August 26, 2012, 06:03:05 PM
Time to stop copying a shitty OS, Samsung.

Fixed.

you're a moron

The only morons are those who buy Nintendo products. Toys. :teehee

Fixed
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 26, 2012, 06:07:47 PM
Manabyte finally right on something
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 06:23:04 PM
Time to stop copying a shitty OS, Samsung.

Fixed.

you're a moron

The only morons are those who buy Nintendo products. Toys. :teehee

Fixed

Games are supposed to be toys, don't let the frat crowd fool you.

Whereas PCs and phones, those are workin' machines I tell ya.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: ManaByte on August 26, 2012, 06:56:00 PM
Time to stop copying a shitty OS, Samsung.

Fixed.

you're a moron

The only morons are those who buy Nintendo products. Toys. :teehee

Fixed

Games are supposed to be toys, don't let the frat crowd fool you.

Whereas PCs and phones, those are workin' machines I tell ya.

Windows 8 says you're wrong.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 06:58:57 PM
I know, fricking Microsoft. :-\

Oh well, I'm fine with Win7/Linux.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: naff on August 26, 2012, 11:23:49 PM
I know all dat Samsung touchwiz crap grinds some android fans gears, but uh, doesn't it suck not having an easily removable battery or expandable memory in your Nexus? I really like the Nexus, but it lacks some basic stuff I wanted, hence having an S3
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 26, 2012, 11:25:01 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/P8jL3.jpg)

(Although this is slightly inacurrate, Apple was already very successful by 1996 even if they were on a downslope.)

I know all dat Samsung touchwiz crap grinds some android fans gears, but uh, doesn't it suck not having an easily removable battery or expandable memory in your Nexus? I really like the Nexus, but it lacks some basic stuff I wanted, hence having an S3

Hasn't been a problem for me yet, and I've downloaded a frickton of comics and apps. Then again I have the 4G one which has 32 GB.

It probably helps I use Google Music and only have like one playlist pinned though.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: naff on August 26, 2012, 11:30:04 PM
If the 32GB one was available here to order through my work I would've been down. Unfortunately that wasn't the case. S3 is sex though. But I'm not some phone fanboy, I'm not going to start hating because it doesn't follow some arbitrary design doc. Only thing that gets me a little bit is the home button going to S Voice on double tap, not the running app list. S Voice is terrible.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 27, 2012, 12:03:20 AM
I know all dat Samsung touchwiz crap grinds some android fans gears, but uh, doesn't it suck not having an easily removable battery or expandable memory in your Nexus? I really like the Nexus, but it lacks some basic stuff I wanted, hence having an S3
But the Galaxy Nexus does have an easily removable battery.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 27, 2012, 12:22:14 AM
I know all dat Samsung touchwiz crap grinds some android fans gears, but uh, doesn't it suck not having an easily removable battery or expandable memory in your Nexus? I really like the Nexus, but it lacks some basic stuff I wanted, hence having an S3
But the Galaxy Nexus does have an easily removable battery.

Oh yeah, didn't catch that. It does. The extended battery doesn't add much bulk either.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: naff on August 27, 2012, 01:10:50 AM
Clearly I need to do my research on these things rather than getting my info from office conversations
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: chronovore on August 27, 2012, 02:51:02 AM
Software patents are pretty creepy.

But Namco owning "minigames in loading screens" isn't what prevents you from playing them. It's no-one talking to Namco about using their patent. The "ghost car" for optimum previous replay in racing games is patented; everyone pays to use that. It's a matter of approaching and paying for it.

...But Apple wouldn't have allowed that, fer shure.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on August 27, 2012, 05:35:09 AM
I think the worst part of this is that Samsung HAS TO sell those distinguished mentally-challenged fellows some technology patents without which you can't even make phones, cause it's law you have to sell them.

But Apple can patent total BS and get away with it.

Also my Galaxy S2 with upgradeable memory >>> any iPhone out now.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Positive Touch on August 27, 2012, 08:13:31 AM
But Namco owning "minigames in loading screens" isn't what prevents you from playing them. It's no-one talking to Namco about using their patent. The "ghost car" for optimum previous replay in racing games is patented; everyone pays to use that.

oh comeonnow.gif

i knew bout the loading screens but GHOST CARS are patented?! next you'll be telling me on-screen button prompt and recharging health are copyrighted too
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on August 27, 2012, 08:25:00 AM
You know the arrow indicator from Crazy Taxi?

Having an arrow point you to your destination is patented by Sega.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on August 27, 2012, 08:37:22 AM
Why didnt they patent it on foot? Typical Sega oversight. They should have patented QTE too, and blue skies.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Brehvolution on August 27, 2012, 10:02:25 AM
brb, going to patent square ice cube trays with rounded bottoms.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 27, 2012, 10:14:54 AM
Borys :lol
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 27, 2012, 10:27:22 AM
Yes. Black is black, white is white, and there's nothing in between.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: chronovore on August 27, 2012, 11:23:53 AM
Why didnt they patent it on foot? Typical Sega oversight. They should have patented QTE too, and blue skies.

They could have or should have patented QTEs (then, maybe no-one would use them!), but there is "prior art" for blue skies.

Also, Midway appears to own the ghost car patent. With them out of business, I wonder what happens to patents then. Someone may have picked that up at their fire sale?
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 27, 2012, 11:41:31 AM
If Google and Motorola win in court against Apple then Apple should pay up. I'm not defending Apple. Just innovation and patents. They are there for particular reason.

They are "there" because software wasn't a thing when they were invented. They're completely destructive to innovation. The fact that two people on opposite ends of the earth could come up with the same solution to a problem but one of them could get sued by the other because they didn't get a patent first is quite frankly sickening to me as a software developer.

That situation happens in software all the time and the use of patents is just corporate bullying at that point.

What makes the situation more broken is that US law was changed somewhat recently so that it doesn't matter who actually invented something first, all that matters is who was first to file the patent. So even if you could prove you invented something thirty years before someone else, you're SOL if you didn't get a patent on it.

I don't understand how anyone even minutely educated could disagree that software patents are a disgrace in their current form. It's like arguing the moon doesn't affect the tides.

Software patents suck. YOU CAN'T EXPLAIN THAT
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: chronovore on August 27, 2012, 11:53:48 AM
Yeah, software patents are now primarily a new form of currency with which corporations can negotiate (or consume each other). Patents have only ever been as valuable as one's ability to defend them in court, and you can see with the Samsung/Apple battle how much these things can cost to pursue.

In terms of a legal device to foster and encourage innovation, while protecting the inventor from outright theft of their ideas... yeah, it is not really filling that role in the larger software development landscape. However, it is worth noting how much influence the iOS UI has had on tablet design.

http://osxdaily.com/wp-content/uploads/2011/08/tablets-before-and-after-ipad.jpg
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 27, 2012, 12:18:41 PM
There will always be trend chasers but those chasing a trend shouldn't be punished because they usually put their own spin on things and give consumers greater choice, and force the trend setter to compete more evenly.

Take the standard desktop GUI. If Xerox had been smart about things and exploited the system as much as Apple is abusing it, then there would be no Mac OS, no Windows. No mouse except for Xerox mice. It would be a veritable dark age of computing, where Xerox would be as big as Microsoft was in its heyday times 1000 and no one being able to remotely compete with them.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Brehvolution on August 27, 2012, 01:11:51 PM
War has changed, Borys.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Beezy on August 27, 2012, 01:22:08 PM
War has changed, Borys.
:lol
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: chronovore on August 28, 2012, 12:48:02 AM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rAtje5weAU0
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 28, 2012, 01:11:19 AM
:lol
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Pringo on August 28, 2012, 01:25:16 AM
For anyone more knowledgeable about software patents I'm kind of curious how you would propose fixing the system. Everyone seems to be saying it's awful yet I haven't really seen any really solid explanations of what to do with it. Should software patents be thrown out completely? How do you get companies to invest heavily in R&D in that case if everything they release can be cloned by competitors? Do you keep software patents but restrict them to something like FRAND licensing so the patents are available to everyone? Do you more heavily restrict what exactly can be patented?
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 28, 2012, 10:07:00 AM
I've got a pretty extreme view on the whole patent system bullshit.  Which is to say, I don't think there should be any such thing.  They say it promotes creativity, but it looks to me more like it stifles it.  I trust that even without the patent system, companies would still innovate, if only to get the leg up on competition even for a short while.

Exactly.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on August 28, 2012, 03:35:08 PM
Ok dudes, yall smarter than me so explain:

why is there not a movement to "disable" software patents because they are "evil" nowadays?

There is, it's just that only programmer nerds and startup business nerds care about it
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 28, 2012, 03:39:27 PM
For anyone more knowledgeable about software patents I'm kind of curious how you would propose fixing the system. Everyone seems to be saying it's awful yet I haven't really seen any really solid explanations of what to do with it. Should software patents be thrown out completely? How do you get companies to invest heavily in R&D in that case if everything they release can be cloned by competitors? Do you keep software patents but restrict them to something like FRAND licensing so the patents are available to everyone? Do you more heavily restrict what exactly can be patented?

The clause in the Constitution that covers IP law and copyright and patents is worded very clearly and concisely: the entire system is supposed to be a balance of the rights of the creators and the rights of the citizens in order to spur growth in innovation and creation.  Patent law is a bit more of a grey area because that also introduces trade secrets, business practices, etc., but basically, current patent law severely limits the scope of aforementioned innovation and creation due to the awful litigious nature its taken.  IP and copyright law are nearly as bad.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: TakingBackSunday on August 28, 2012, 03:41:49 PM
As for what to do, fuck if I know because I'm not smart enough for patent law.  I'd say trivial shit like "TOUCH ZOOM" is too broad; too general to patent.  There should be a written law that go into great detail what warrants a patent and what doesn't.  Copyright suffers the same shit.  "IS IT NOT distinguished mentally-challenged AND YOU THOUGHT ABOUT IT?  SHIT, LIFE+70 YEARS FOR YOU"
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: MCD on August 29, 2012, 04:48:21 PM
Time to stop using a shitty OS, Samsung.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJsX3yzGUQo

Yup.
Title: Re: Samsung copied Apple with their Android devices
Post by: Tasty on August 29, 2012, 06:47:23 PM
Time to stop using a shitty OS, Samsung.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EJsX3yzGUQo

Yup.

:lol