THE BORE

General => Video Game Bored => Topic started by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM

Title: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 03:05:08 PM
...aka, the best psx era jrpg :jawalrus

Dat element field system

No traditional leveling system

Best jrpg music for it's generation

Making nostalgiatards cry moar when you heap deserved praise upon it

:jawalrus

spoiler (click to show/hide)
...dem furries tho :snoop
[close]
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on December 27, 2013, 03:17:32 PM
dat soundtrack

:noah

I'm happy that 15 (oh god ... 15?) years later I can look back and still be happy I gave it a 10.0

is it a perfect game? no

is it the one game I would preserve from Square's prolific, top-notch PSX JRPG output? yes
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 03:19:41 PM
I'ma get all the endings this time. ALL THE ENDINGS.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: magus on December 27, 2013, 03:19:51 PM
chrono cross was ze lame sequel oui?
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 04:51:08 PM
Great game play and music. Not a better psx RPG than Suikoden II though. I'd love to replay it down the line.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 05:02:43 PM
Also amazed Triumph enjoys such a non traditional approach for someone who prefers iteration. Then again you like BOFDQ so you don't mind experimentation I guess.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: demi on December 27, 2013, 05:05:28 PM
I'd pick Parasite Eve as my "archival" game
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 05:08:59 PM
Parasite Eve is okay.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 27, 2013, 05:14:02 PM
Replaying Chrono Cross

 :heh

I'd pick Parasite Eve as my "archival" game

 :sabu
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 05:29:16 PM
Also amazed Triumph enjoys such a non traditional approach for someone who prefers iteration. Then again you like BOFDQ so you don't mind experimentation I guess.

I love innovation that results in something GOOD. Innovation for the sake of "let's do something different" that turns out to be shitty is a dumb idea. You can say all you want about hindsight, etc, but that's just the way I look at things.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 06:19:53 PM
It makes sense. But one could easily make that argument about Cross. It didn't feel anything like Chrono Trigger and came off as a bad Suikoden wannabe. If the name didn't involve Chrono, you could hardly tell it's even in the same series. Isn't that innovation for the sake of innovation? Not that I'm disputing your point or even disagreeing with it, just opening a dialogue.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 27, 2013, 06:20:27 PM
PSX-era Squaresoft  :mouf
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 06:22:30 PM
PSX-era Squaresoft  :mouf

(http://i.imgur.com/vF5ttOL.jpg)

:lawd
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 27, 2013, 06:34:19 PM
PSX-era Squaresoft  :mouf

The pinnacle of greatness.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 07:40:12 PM
It makes sense. But one could easily make that argument about Cross. It didn't feel anything like Chrono Trigger and came off as a bad Suikoden wannabe. If the name didn't involve Chrono, you could hardly tell it's even in the same series. Isn't that innovation for the sake of innovation? Not that I'm disputing your point or even disagreeing with it, just opening a dialogue.

A) I don't personally put the Suikoden series on the pedestal y'all seem to; I prefer CC to every Suikoden, even 2.
B) The game had enough nods thematically and gameplay wise to CT for it to suffice, imo. I didn't want a "sequel" to CT, ever. It was a great game and had a passable story, but I felt like it was resolved in that game.
C) See above. I don't think that's innovation for the sake of innovation. What, in your mind, would a CT "sequel" look like?
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 07:45:04 PM
A) I don't personally put the Suikoden series on the pedestal y'all seem to; I prefer CC to every Suikoden, even 2.

omg. :tocry
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 07:47:34 PM
Collecting 108 characters is fucking boooooooring.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: magus on December 27, 2013, 07:51:24 PM
Collecting 108 characters is fucking boooooooring.

dude but collecting annoying character is all you do in chrono cross :beli

at least suikoden has nobody that is as awfully bad as the "cha" family

Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 07:55:30 PM
yeah, but there's way less than 108 to collect, and if I remember correctly you can use all of them in your party, none of this "bro come be a cook at my castle, shit will be tight yo"

usefulness > window dressing

Also, if you actually read dialog in jrpgs, you're doing it wrong, assholes
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 07:57:43 PM
But all you do in CC is collect characters. And they are so random and have zero back story or relevance. In Suikoden, characters have backstories and are often blended into the main plot. Suikoden V's cast of recurring characters who are included in the main plot borders in 30's or 40's. It has the best character writing I have seen in an rpg considering its scope. Compare to Chrono Cross where I recruit...a talking dog and a strawman. Why, I don't know. But in Suikoden it's usually tied to Chinese/Japanese history or The Water Margin. But either way, even with the smaller character roster in CC, there are so few characters are actually involved in the actual story. It feels so pointless.

As for a CT sequel, I've always envisioned it as a heavy emphasis on adventure just like the original, that's self-contained like Final Fantasy - but with nods of a larger lore ala Dragon Quest, larger emphasis on techs and combos, expanding upon the time travel story by blending it with gameplay. Let's be honest, the time travel didn't really impact CT's gameplay TOO much. But in a sequel, you should be able to do things in any order, and have a different outcome happen in a non-linear manner to usher the urge to replay and make every players individual experience different. That could keep it in line with the trademark CT multiple endings gimmick while also making it more relevant to the players experience. It doesn't even have to be related to Crono and the gang. I don't see why it's so hard, and I don't see why CT is put on such a pedestal. It was a kick ass rpg with a knack for adventure not unlike Dragon Quest. There are a lot of areas CT could have expanded and improved upon: game difficulty and balance (it is pretty fucking easy), more gameplay and story ramifications for dabbling with time, and more sidequests.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 27, 2013, 07:58:24 PM
Also, if you actually read dialog in jrpgs, you're doing it wrong, assholes

I always read the dialog in JRPGs. :smug
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 07:58:50 PM
Also, if you actually read dialog in jrpgs, you're doing it wrong, assholes

(http://i.imgur.com/KoEsadh.png)
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 27, 2013, 08:22:34 PM
But all you do in CC is collect characters. And they are so random and have zero back story or relevance. In Suikoden, characters have backstories and are often blended into the main plot. Suikoden V's cast of recurring characters who are included in the main plot borders in 30's or 40's. It has the best character writing I have seen in an rpg considering its scope. Compare to Chrono Cross where I recruit...a talking dog and a strawman. Why, I don't know. But in Suikoden it's usually tied to Chinese/Japanese history or The Water Margin. But either way, even with the smaller character roster in CC, there are so few characters are actually involved in the actual story. It feels so pointless.

These are pluses. STFU AND BE STATS.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 08:27:20 PM
I don't get the point of playing an rpg if you tune out the story. I mean, it's a big part of the games and I say this as someone who mainly plays rpgs for gameplay - Suikoden being the lone exception. It's like playing an Bethesda game and skipping all the text. You're missing such a huge part of the game, I don't see the point in playing it.

But opinions are opinions for a reason I guess.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Rufus on December 27, 2013, 08:43:55 PM
i think it's okay to *read* the dialogue, but don't make the mistake of taking that shit seriously
I actually get some amount of pleasure from spotting the nonsense. I also like to know what's going on, no matter how dumb. I'm playing Wild Arms 4 right now and I just saw a scene where the villains, apropos of nothing and amongst themselves, laid out why they are evil and the villains.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 27, 2013, 08:54:50 PM
Yeah, I have to know what's going on in a game to enjoy it. Skipping dialogue in an rpg the first time you play it just makes no sense to me.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 27, 2013, 09:39:20 PM
If you don't want to read text, go play Tetris or something.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Trent Dole on December 27, 2013, 10:40:09 PM
PSX-era Squaresoft  :mouf

(http://i.imgur.com/vF5ttOL.jpg)

:lawd
This shit is how I became aware/a fan of Escher. :bow
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: magus on December 28, 2013, 06:47:02 AM
i think it's okay to *read* the dialogue, but don't make the mistake of taking that shit seriously

are you saying xenogears isn't the best story ever since the reinassance?
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on December 28, 2013, 01:32:10 PM
chrono cross was ze lame sequel oui?

oh no! as a fan of Chrono Cross I've never heard this before in the past 15 years. lo, I am slain
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: tiesto on December 28, 2013, 05:22:33 PM
It may be a bit of a lost art in these days of "go to the big red X to advance", but I miss the days of RPGs (east and west) where you actually had to go around towns and talk to people for clues and shit.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 28, 2013, 05:25:16 PM
can you imagine what it would be like if someone made a gigantic game like that and it was one of the best games ever and it sold like 20 million copies and everyone loved it
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 28, 2013, 06:03:01 PM
If youre talking about Sky rim, it has markers so you didn't get his point.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 28, 2013, 06:20:12 PM
wikipedia is a reliable source
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 28, 2013, 06:26:43 PM
I thought Skyrim didn't sell that much, but I thought it'd be at 12 m by now.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 28, 2013, 06:34:13 PM
apparently the 20 mil number comes from recent eso press release so :fistfulshrug

my point is that in skyrim you find clues and quests by talking with townspeople, proving that they still do make games like that.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 28, 2013, 06:38:26 PM
Yes, and then you hit the quest button, and follow the quest marker, so no, they don't make games like that.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 28, 2013, 06:41:22 PM
or you dont use the completely optional quest marker and then congratulations! you do have a game like that
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 28, 2013, 07:17:30 PM
Don't bother, PT. It's not surprising Himumu celebrates the horribly mundane shit in games, though- this is someone who had a sad that SRIV cut out all of the "driving around bullshit" in that genre, and who loves collecting all 108 stars of destiny.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Damian79 on December 28, 2013, 07:20:50 PM
I also dont play JRPG's for story.  However Cronotrigger  was the better game if you take out the story.

Enemies werent always placed in a straight line form each other and moved from time to time.  Allowing for some interesting strategies.  The skills/spells in CT had different shapes atleast early.  Late game it was "one or all" like all games today.  Thats the main difference between CT and CC in terms of gameplay.  As for best playstation era rpg game for some reason i enjoyed FF8 purely because of the guy that did streetfighter moves as skills forgot his name.  It was mostly forgettable for me.

PS2 era had awesome RPG games though.  Best was BoF:DQ.  I am sad that that game didnt sell enough that it didnt warrant a sequel.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 28, 2013, 07:30:12 PM
Don't bother, PT. It's not surprising Himumu celebrates the horribly mundane shit in games, though- this is someone who had a sad that SRIV cut out all of the "driving around bullshit" in that genre, and who loves collecting all 108 stars of destiny.

Actually, I'm a gamer with eclectic tastes. I can enjoy SRIV and GTAV, I can enjoy Suikoden, and I can enjoy Skyrim. I can play FIFA and play Yakuza. All of those things you listed in your post are merely a symptom of your own lack of varied tastes and means of wanting to have new and different experiences. And in this case, we're talking about playing Skyrim without a quest marker. I sure as fuck play Skyrim with a quest marker - but I guess reading is too mundane.

As for playing Skyrim without a quest marker, good fucking luck. :lol Assuming you've traveled the entire world and have every location marked on your map, you're going to be using a quest marker. Not to mention most of your quest logs mention how and where to go to your next objective anyway. Skyrim is baby food compared to older rpgs where you needed to talk to npcs. Not saying it's a bad thing - because I prefer the streamlined take of Skyrim over the bullshit in Final Fantasy 1 - but saying that Skyrim is exactly like those older rpgs Tiesto was referencing is not only incorrect, but fucking laughable.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 28, 2013, 08:03:23 PM
:yeshrug

I'm in a bitchy mood, why else would I be playing all these jrpgs???
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 28, 2013, 08:05:29 PM
For the fun and adventure. For the quest! For the NUMBERZ!! For the npc dialogue!!!
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 28, 2013, 08:13:33 PM
He couldn't be talking about Skyrim, it didn't even sell half that many copies.  At 20 million, he's either talking about Pokemon, Minecraft, Super Mario, or Call of Duty.

Quote from: http://www.bethblog.com/2013/06/10/e3-2013-eso-arriving-on-playstation-4-xbox-one/
As the follow-up to the 2002 Role-Playing Game of the Year, The Elder Scrolls III: Morrowind®, and the 2006 Game of the Year, The Elder Scrolls IV: Oblivion®, Skyrim earned hundreds of ‘Game of the Year’ awards and has sold over 20 million copies.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 28, 2013, 08:39:17 PM
I'm pretty sure it got the coveted "Cruncheons GOTY" award.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 28, 2013, 08:40:41 PM
It's always interesting when PRs differ from independent sales tracking, isn't it?

:yeshrug
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 28, 2013, 08:45:22 PM
It's always interesting when PRs differ from independent sales tracking, isn't it?

It's always interesting when Oscar throws around his "insider" cred without backing it up with any evidence.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
/andrex
[close]
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 28, 2013, 08:50:01 PM

As for playing Skyrim without a quest marker, good fucking luck. :lol Assuming you've traveled the entire world and have every location marked on your map, you're going to be using a quest marker. Not to mention most of your quest logs mention how and where to go to your next objective anyway.

soon as someone tells you about a location, whether in passing or because of a quest, it is added to your map. all you gotta do is open the map to find out how to get where youre going.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: benjipwns on December 29, 2013, 05:44:52 AM
One thing I've always found surprising is how well the Chrono games tie up a lot of their dangling threads. (Though I seem to remember Trigger doing this better. Probably because of the nature of a single universe.) Which is pretty unusual for time travel stories across all mediums. I think it's because they try not to tie everything to the main plot and allow for small "corrections" related to the characters rather than more grand ones tied to the central plot. The multiple endings helps since they didn't have to bring everything back to a single timeline.

Then again I also liked the time travel in God of War II and Singularity. (And the Futurama game. :-[) Though God of War II's is mostly because it's so literally insane and like "okay, fuck yeah, that'll work" probably because it didn't have to finish the cliffhanger. (And how everyone in the game treats it like this thing you just do when you have shit luck, "oh yeah, go see the sisters of fate.")
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 10:44:26 AM
Chrono Cross doesn't have time travel. It has alternate worlds.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: benjipwns on December 29, 2013, 04:21:25 PM
I thought you did some time traveling within the alternate universes. I admit I haven't played it in probably at least twelve years.

Maybe I should.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
lol yeah right, *sighs* and mentally expands the "backlog" yet again...
[close]
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 04:37:26 PM
Let me correct myself. Cross has time travel, but in small gulps, and it's not front and center like in Trigger.  If it were an actual time travel story, where you go from different eras like in Trigger, I think they would be liked it more than Trigger. Reason being, that in Cross, gameplay and story was actually affected by the two alternate worlds where in Trigger, it usually wasn't. . However, Cross still has time travel as a plot element. Kid for example goes in time to save Serge and shit, and iirc, you go in time to the final dungeon though I could be wrong. I have no clue what you mean by Cross making all of its elements work, though, because it doesn't; it's a convoluted mess. FFVIII makes more sense.

Benji, I do share your love for time travel stories. Something about them makes me just forget all flaws. Don't give a shit.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: magus on December 29, 2013, 04:59:23 PM
i don't hate chrono cross but the plot is sort of non-sensical (heck even now if you asked me what the plot of the game is about i wouldn't have a clear answer... there is this cat guy and he's evil and... something to do with dragons?) the way they ram chrono trigger into chrono cross is so badly done you'd think modern square traveled into the past and ruined it and the battle system is more complicated than what is worth

honestly when you remove all the production value from it (amazing production value,those 3D model could pass for an early ps2 game) all that remains is the colorfull cast of dumb character like the dancing voodoo doll and the skeleton clown which for me make it the worst squaresoft psx game (we aren't counting saga games because anything kawazu touch loses the right to be called games)
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 04:59:55 PM
The plot is absolutely terrible and makes Xenogears blush.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 05:03:42 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sWf5OFH0NkQ
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: ZephyrFate on December 29, 2013, 05:07:27 PM
Suikoden 2 was heavily flawed and this game was way better.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: magus on December 29, 2013, 05:11:11 PM
The plot is absolutely terrible and makes Xenogears blush.

xenogears is a game i love but the pacing is so awfull and there is so much foreshadowing it gets stupid
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 05:12:16 PM
Suikoden 2 was heavily flawed and this game was way better.

:lol :lol

I can't get over calling Suikoden II "highly flawed" (:what :sabu) while defending Chrono Cross, a game with a cast of 45 characters and only 5 of them have development or relevance, whose character recruitment faculties - for the most part - are literally "talk to character, recruit character" while holding the premise of being a "game", with a plot so convoluted it makes Xenogears look like baby food.

Cross' flaws eclipse any flaw Suikoden II has that you made up in your mind. :lol
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 05:35:54 PM
The plot is absolutely terrible and makes Xenogears blush.

xenogears is a game i love but the pacing is so awfull and there is so much foreshadowing it gets stupid

I loved XG when I played it a long time ago. But it is pretty ridiculous.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Trent Dole on December 29, 2013, 06:46:05 PM
What? CC's plot isn't complicated. You're supposed to be dead, but you're not and this causes a rift in whatever thus there being a timeline where you ain't dead. Also, cat man.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 29, 2013, 06:55:58 PM
That stuff is all fairly straight forward. The later arbiter stuff is all a bunch of convoluted gobbledy-gook, but then what jrpg DOESN'T have that shit.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 29, 2013, 07:08:46 PM
People taking videogame plots seriously :neogaf
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 29, 2013, 07:36:39 PM
:yeshrug I do what I want. Chrono Cross is a good game wrapped around the worst possible characters and story ever.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: magus on December 29, 2013, 07:44:51 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-9Q2_2yLmQ

can we post this clip everywhere on the internet? even 4chan? the internet must know!

People taking videogame plots seriously :neogaf

a whole lot of the charm of xenogear is capturing the 90' anime feel,the same goes for lunar silver star story,those games aren't just excel tables and number ya know? :gurl
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 29, 2013, 08:28:10 PM
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f-9Q2_2yLmQ

can we post this clip everywhere on the internet? even 4chan? the internet must know!

"We're going to get a good lesson in literary context along the way."

lol *closes video*
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 29, 2013, 08:31:09 PM
FFX has the best dialog since Shakespeare.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Rahxephon91 on December 29, 2013, 09:01:40 PM
FFX has the best dialog since Shakespeare.
Excuse me, thats Xenosaga.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 29, 2013, 11:05:01 PM
my god i love lunar so much
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 29, 2013, 11:29:34 PM
Remember Lunar: Dragon Song?


:fbm
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 30, 2013, 12:09:15 AM
fuck no i only played the first two and their remakes and then stopped. awesome series
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: ZephyrFate on December 30, 2013, 03:18:35 AM
Suikoden 2 was heavily flawed and this game was way better.

:lol :lol

I can't get over calling Suikoden II "highly flawed" (:what :sabu) while defending Chrono Cross, a game with a cast of 45 characters and only 5 of them have development or relevance, whose character recruitment faculties - for the most part - are literally "talk to character, recruit character" while holding the premise of being a "game", with a plot so convoluted it makes Xenogears look like baby food.

Cross' flaws eclipse any flaw Suikoden II has that you made up in your mind. :lol

Suikoden II's fucking terrible horrible totally fucking bad translation eclipses any possible goodwill the game has to make up for its shit-salad soundtrack (which has only a few gems and a lot of really, really terrible synth work in comparison to Suikoden I's authentic instrumentals), an absolute and utter lack of difficulty, glitches everywhere, and a plot so up and down in tone that its only saving grace is a bad ending that is better than any of the other endings.

Chrono Cross has beautiful graphics, beautiful music, interesting ties to Chrono Trigger, and really solid gameplay. Its story is hit or miss but really not that bad in comparison to other games in the genre in the PSX era.

Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Damian79 on December 30, 2013, 04:36:02 AM
FFX has the best dialog since Shakespeare.

Only because Shakespeare is forumulaic.  But as far as best dialog and story goes that award goes to planescape torment.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 30, 2013, 04:39:28 AM
presents an interesting conundrum

suikoden 2's english version had a crap localization that introduced a bunch of bugs and left whole chunks of text untranslated, but should the game itself be judged by that bad version?

That's the only version I have to judge it by. It was an ok game, but I think the fact that it was rare/hard to find/expensive gives it a false sense of mystique... let's call it "Panzer Dragoon Saga" syndrome, shall we?
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: ZephyrFate on December 30, 2013, 05:04:18 AM
Sorta? I feel like Panzer Dragoon Saga is a more solid game on all fronts than Suikoden II, except it is really short.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: demi on December 30, 2013, 08:16:33 AM
Meh, Earthbound is pricer and better. Fuck a Suiko 2. Fight me, Himurella.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 30, 2013, 09:14:26 AM
pff, earthbound can be had for a tenspot

:bow Wii U :bow2
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 30, 2013, 10:54:57 AM
Earthbound  :kobeyuck
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 30, 2013, 11:17:12 AM
Meh, Earthbound is pricer and better. Fuck a Suiko 2. Fight me, Himurella.

I sold my Suikoden II.

I don't give a fuck.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 30, 2013, 11:24:29 AM
Suikoden 2 was heavily flawed and this game was way better.

:lol :lol

I can't get over calling Suikoden II "highly flawed" (:what :sabu) while defending Chrono Cross, a game with a cast of 45 characters and only 5 of them have development or relevance, whose character recruitment faculties - for the most part - are literally "talk to character, recruit character" while holding the premise of being a "game", with a plot so convoluted it makes Xenogears look like baby food.

Cross' flaws eclipse any flaw Suikoden II has that you made up in your mind. :lol

Suikoden II's fucking terrible horrible totally fucking bad translation eclipses any possible goodwill the game has to make up for its shit-salad soundtrack (which has only a few gems and a lot of really, really terrible synth work in comparison to Suikoden I's authentic instrumentals), an absolute and utter lack of difficulty, glitches everywhere, and a plot so up and down in tone that its only saving grace is a bad ending that is better than any of the other endings.

Chrono Cross has beautiful graphics, beautiful music, interesting ties to Chrono Trigger, and really solid gameplay. Its story is hit or miss but really not that bad in comparison to other games in the genre in the PSX era.

Suikoden II has beautiful graphics, beautiful music, connects the game to I and builds a larger world making it a highly ambitious world with large scope that separates it from almost every other rpg, the difficulty of battles is low but the puzzle nature of star recruitment makes up for it, and despite not ever being that difficult is never not involving and fun. Its story is a fantastic adaptation of Chinese history and the Water Margin. It has been widely praised and lacks any of the drama tied to Chrono Cross for disrespecting its prequel. Compare, Suikoden II helped spring board an entire world of culture and lore, 1000 years long. Chrono Cross sets out to undo everything you accomplished in Trigger, while simultaneously somehow making the world the game takes place in smaller. Suikoden II has far more scope, and is difficulty aside, a perfect traditional rpg. But then what traditional rpgs ARE difficult? So very few.

Suikoden 1 has a better soundtrack, but II's soundtrack is fine and still extremely well made.

Zephyr, consider this: you're the only person I've ever seen have issue with Suikoden II's music. Maybe you should ponder this.

presents an interesting conundrum

suikoden 2's english version had a crap localization that introduced a bunch of bugs and left whole chunks of text untranslated, but should the game itself be judged by that bad version?

That's the only version I have to judge it by. It was an ok game, but I think the fact that it was rare/hard to find/expensive gives it a false sense of mystique... let's call it "Panzer Dragoon Saga" syndrome, shall we?

Bullshit. People said this about Final Fantasy Tactics, and Vagrant Story. It's a tactic used by people to entirely discredit a games popularity, and it's a bullshit argument.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 30, 2013, 11:41:38 AM
I said my piece. I don't really want to extend the discussion any further, especially since Triumph made this thread to talk about Chrono Cross, so talking about Suiko is disrespectful. If they can't get into Suikoden II that's their fault.

Though I will say that Zeph's latching onto Suikoden 1 is weird. Then again, he loves Suikoden IV - that's all you really need to know.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 30, 2013, 12:35:46 PM
Wow different people have different opinions on the internet

better factor this into the spreadsheet data
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 30, 2013, 12:45:33 PM
You, of all people, are so convenient to post that. One who routinely doesn't take others opinions and tastes into account. The other page, you excluded me because I like different things in games from you. Now you're conveniently saying,"wow people have different opinions on the internet." You couldn't be more one-dimensional with that post.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 30, 2013, 12:46:38 PM
People have different opinions

It's just that some people's opinions are wrong
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 30, 2013, 12:46:56 PM
:lol
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Great Rumbler on December 30, 2013, 12:52:21 PM
People have different opinions

It's just that some people's opinions are wrong

FOUR LEGS GOOD TWO LEGS BAD
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: ZephyrFate on December 30, 2013, 04:28:47 PM
I'm not gonna ponder shit, and Chrono Cross has like a 90-something on Metacritic. Suikoden II, however, is much lower. Going by game critics of the time, CC was way, way more widely praised because it is an incredibly well-built game on all fronts.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Himu on December 30, 2013, 04:29:49 PM
You're using Metacritic now as an argument, huh? GTAIV has a higher metacritic than Chrono Cross. It's clearly the better game.
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Steve Contra on December 30, 2013, 06:52:35 PM
As long as you don't think Xenogears is a good game we're cool
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on December 30, 2013, 08:08:24 PM
Oscar, are you aware Suikoden II's Localization is basically the work of Nick Rox and a 6-pack of beer? Two weeks, no editing or QA (obviously). Konami!
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Howard Alan Treesong on December 30, 2013, 08:17:23 PM
"When Konami sends a game to die, IT STAYS DEAD."
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 30, 2013, 08:19:55 PM
Maybe that's why he ended up a furry

 :larry
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: ZephyrFate on December 30, 2013, 08:56:51 PM
As long as you don't think Xenogears is a good game we're cool
so much truth
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: Positive Touch on December 30, 2013, 10:49:21 PM
never played suikoden 2 and now that i know that it was translated by someone who wrote for gamefan i dunno if i ever will
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on December 31, 2013, 12:12:46 AM
I always liked the sort of rambling NPC dialog Kato puts in his games, although I'm thinking it is probably obsolete these days now that Twitter exists
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: tiesto on December 31, 2013, 12:25:07 AM
People actually prefer Chrono Cross to Suikoden 2? Am I in opposite world today?
Title: Re: Replaying Chrono Cross
Post by: ZephyrFate on December 31, 2013, 01:33:38 AM
welcome to the world of "more people fucking played chrono cross"