THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Eschaton on April 05, 2014, 04:23:52 PM

Title: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Eschaton on April 05, 2014, 04:23:52 PM
Sometimes i talk with himumu about daoism / religion / buddhism occasionally and share materials, I thought it'd be cool if anyone else wanted to post up or read anything or contribute. I know that in our current world, these are considered outdated or pointless ways, but eh. Post whatever you want, anything. Even if it's atheist. This isn't just supposed to be a topic on asian stuff either, seriously every faith religion or philosophy is fair game.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IYsR-ewHA28


Thought Krishnamurti would be an interesting way to cap it off.


I'm currently reading this:

http://hermitmusic.tripod.com/daoism_and_chinese_culture.pdf
Title: Re: spirituality/religion thread
Post by: Raban on April 05, 2014, 04:28:47 PM
this is my religion
(http://i.minus.com/iRpnMhEekA84Y.png)
Title: Re: spirituality/religion thread
Post by: Phoenix Dark on April 05, 2014, 04:35:44 PM
I thought we already had a thread for fantasy. Mods can you lock this thread, I don't see how it serves a function to discuss fairy tales like they're true. Sometimes I leave The Bore on my computer screen, I wouldn't want my little cousins exposed to destruction religious "ideals."




spoiler (click to show/hide)
(http://imageshack.com/a/img844/2485/bkoa.png)
[close]
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on April 05, 2014, 04:44:54 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n7PUssV9oNo
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on April 05, 2014, 05:16:39 PM
Can I get a summary before I jump in? Did you decide to forgo the hallucinogens and go for meditation instead?
To be honest, I just started watching it but I've listened to Graham Hancock before on Joe Rogan's podcast and I find his ideas about spirituality, archeology, and consciousness rather interesting.

Graham's theory about consciousness is that it doesn't originate from our brains but instead it is picked up by our brains like an antenna would with a TV channel or a radio signal. I don't know if that's the main focus of this talk though.

And no, I haven't had any hallucinogens or had any time to meditate. Still trying to educate myself about this stuff. 
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 05:18:47 PM
I have explored religion and philosophies for a long time. I am atheist. I am not Buddhist in that I have not taken precepts. However, it is definitely the religion I that gels with my ideals the most. The problem is that I cannot attend dharma talks at local temples too often because they are so far away (as far as 40-50 minutes).

What drew me to philosophies again was that, as an atheist, you live a life without a guide. I have enough self confidence and self assurance to know what is right and wrong, for the most part, without religion or philosophy. But being atheist or non-religious still doesn't fix the human problem: the knowledge we are all going to die, the pain and suffering that is life, and how to truly leave a good mark on this world when we do perish.

Buddhism is the only religion or philosophy I've seen address any and all of these things. I studied a lot of western philosophy, and found no answers, only questions. It works for me. I'm not looking for commandments or how to be a good person or eternal bliss, I just want a useful to make living life less painful and to enjoy it more. Meditation and Buddhism have helped, a bit.

I dunno, it clicks with me. Every time I read some Buddha quote or read the Pali canon, it resonates as true and relevant, even in 2014. The fact that I don't have to believe in any supernatural elements and can come up to my own conclusions is icing on the cake. The Zen Center I attend has people of all different kinds of faiths coming to gain knowledge: Catholics, other types of Christians, Muslims, Hindus. I like that even if I discard the religious element of Buddhism, I still gain pragmatic and practical teachings of life that are relevant and appealing.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Madrun Badrun on April 05, 2014, 05:37:51 PM
Saw title; though 'himu' thread.  Pleasantly surprised.  Open thread; see 'himu' in first line.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 05:53:32 PM
I sincerely believe you don't need religion to address the human condition at all. For myself though, spiritual practices have helped *me* contextualize a lot of things, but that's just me.

To be honest, I just started watching it but I've listened to Graham Hancock before on Joe Rogan's podcast and I find his ideas about spirituality, archeology, and consciousness rather interesting.

Graham's theory about consciousness is that it doesn't originate from our brains but instead it is picked up by our brains like an antenna would with a TV channel or a radio signal. I don't know if that's the main focus of this talk though.

And no, I haven't had any hallucinogens or had any time to meditate. Still trying to educate myself about this stuff. 

Huh, that's interesting. I might give it a runthrough later if it isnt too smartdumb.

Maybe not religion, but a philosophy of some kind, I think so.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 06:01:42 PM
I didn't say anything about books. Philosophy can be cultural values and friendships. Philosophies are essentially ideas. that you live your life by. You certainly need something.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 05, 2014, 06:05:31 PM
Bookmarking this thread so I can talk about my hippy beliefs later.

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 05, 2014, 08:18:26 PM
You know what else is a philosophy?  :hitler

My parents are basically Christian but they've never taken me to church and rarely express it. I had effectively a kids Bible type deal when younger, which I read because I read everything, from a collection of like Robin Hood and other stuff type books. So I've never had an r/athiest stage, most of my friends have though. I've always been fascinated by the internet arguments (and real life too I suppose) how much fervor is put into disproving "factual" claims. It seems like an odd endeavor. More than once I've tried to contend that the Bible is essentially a series of allegories to impart a moral philosophy which can be separated from the details and that most people agree on six of the ten commandments. This usually angers both the moral majority and r/atheists arguing because they want to debate whether Goliath turned water into wine while hiding planes in the tundra.

What drew me to philosophies again was that, as an atheist, you live a life without a guide. I have enough self confidence and self assurance to know what is right and wrong, for the most part, without religion or philosophy. But being atheist or non-religious still doesn't fix the human problem: the knowledge we are all going to die, the pain and suffering that is life, and how to truly leave a good mark on this world when we do perish.
Not to make this seem like I'm singling you out Himu, you just brought it up. This kind of negative view is one of the few issues I tend to have with the religious. Too often in the context of "without an outside moral code, you'll just end up killing people!" And I think it's mainly projection. (None of this is to say there is no role for philosophy, just that I find it natural instead of essential.)

There doesn't need to be a reason beyond life existing. Focusing on the pain and suffering of life is to compare it to an utopian ideal when failure is the essential of life. Worrying about death, about a meaning in life, about making sure you have a legacy, etc. seems self-centered to me, it's a cry of "I mattered!" To bring this around to the GAF thread, there's a similar notion to Presidencies. Presidents effectively "die" when they leave office, and nobody gives a shit about their life beforehand, so their entire "legacy" is confined to those four or eight years. It drives a need for marked accomplishments, for claim and blame of good and bad, for monuments. There's a decided bias in historiography against Presidents who "accomplish" something that changes the world. World War III would change the world. A President who started it would be forever praised by the high priests of history, assuming he won it later, because he was consequential.

Life is the same way, but it need not be. You are one of seven billion but you are always having your own impact in your own way, even if you can't see it. Maybe you think your grand glory is breaking Sony insider information, but you never see the Off-Topic post you make on some random topic that causes someone to rethink things, switch their majors and eventually cure some disease. But that's not a stone monument which will last eons after your gone reminding others that you once existed.

As they say, graves are full of indispensable men.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 08:29:47 PM
I never said that you need religion to live a moral code. I didn't even bring up a moral code. I'm not talking about ethics or even conduct. I even said in the post that ethics have nothing to do with atheism. As an atheist, I have no backbone or base. I do things because I feel they are right. But something still seems missing. I'm talking me, myself, and I in that post. Not all atheists as a whole. But I long for philosophical underpinings that expand beyond "I DO WHAT I WANT!" For one thing, that's a very selfish worldview. Another thing, it has no structure. I pine for structure and I know a philosophy can give it to me. But again, like I said, that is the great secret to life and the a part of the human condition: the search for truth.

Again, that post is mostly about myself and my own journey.

Also, please do not call me my name on this forum. On here I am Himuro.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: MyNameIsMethodis on April 05, 2014, 08:33:20 PM
bbunch of hipsters just watched Waking Life itt
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 09:41:23 PM
R/daoism doesn't have too many people. And the people it does have are very elitist. Critique the Tao of Pooh I dare you. :ufup Also, r/Buddhism seems to be getting worse and r/Zen is an elitist cesspool. Full of very unhelpful people who are like,"what is good, what is bad, man? Just part of our heads, man."
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 09:45:50 PM
R/Buddhism is nothing like that.

I find that Zen and Daoism sometimes attract some...very assured people.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 05, 2014, 09:46:14 PM
I never said that you need religion to live a moral code. I didn't even bring up a moral code. I'm not talking about ethics or even conduct. I even said in the post that ethics have nothing to do with atheism. As an atheist, I have no backbone or base. I do things because I feel they are right. But something still seems missing. I'm talking me, myself, and I in that post.
I apologize because I was not trying to imply that you were nor directing anything at you. Merely using the quote as a jumping off point. The "moral code" aspect is simply one that I often find in connection with the notion of needing a guide. That if you don't follow the Bible, or whatever, that people will have no guide and just go around killing each other because why not, there's no meaning to life might as well rape and pillage. But it was not my intent to claim that was you or like you or to say anything really about you other than to use the sentiments expressed in the quoted part as justification to discuss my own self-centered interests. So again, I apologize.

I have edited my post.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 09:50:49 PM
No it is okay. It is an important talking point and one I wholeheartedly agree with. There's lots to life that gives atheists a reason to live. More than that, I often feel like many believers treat God like a babysitter. Like, the babysitter says not to put your sister in the toilet. And you don't...when she is around, but when she's not around it is all game. If that's how you are thinking, then you're not exactly a good brother and by extension, if you need God's existence to stop you from killing others, you're not a very good person.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 05, 2014, 09:52:38 PM
I have a multitude of beliefs and metaphysical theories that I'm basically embarrassed to share because I actually believe in them but they're based on introspection and treating hallucinogens as serious tools to explore consciousness and reality.

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 09:58:15 PM
I have limited exposure to hallucinagins but I do admit, I always roll my eyes when people bring up acid or shrooms on r/Buddhism. It isn't that I don't find it as a good tool, it is just that many who have them for spiritual reasons act like they have found an ultimate reality or some secret unbeknownst to the rest of us. I'm open to it, but I do get annoyed when people liken it to enlightenment or something. But that is neither here nor there, and part of my own framework of feelings. I would say, don't mind posting it. We all have our own ideas and if there's anything I've kearned , it is that everyone's idea of truth is different and that doesn't mean we should turn others away. On the contrary, the truth is connected to all of us and all of us are capable of it, no matter the set of beliefs.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 05, 2014, 10:32:19 PM
Shit. I tried. I just sound like a knob so I ended up deleting it. Smoke with me sometime though, and I'll share lol.

But some major themes is I believe life is all interconnected and there's a driving force behind it and I also believe in a strange sort of infinite infinities in which all possibilities exist.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 05, 2014, 10:35:58 PM
You fucking wimp. JUST TELL US. I promise I will talk about meditation brain theory afterwards.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Raban on April 05, 2014, 10:54:53 PM
Life is the same way, but it need not be. You are one of seven billion but you are always having your own impact in your own way, even if you can't see it. Maybe you think your grand glory is breaking Sony insider information, but you never see the Off-Topic post you make on some random topic that causes someone to rethink things, switch their majors and eventually cure some disease. But that's not a stone monument which will last eons after your gone reminding others that you once existed.

As they say, graves are full of indispensable men.
jesus fucking christ, benji :bow2
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 06, 2014, 03:09:17 AM
I think r atheism was the wrong descriptor. What happened was that I eventually began to hate the religions around me at a young age. I hated being excluded and confused by christian and jewish customs, and the fighting I saw about them (gory, graphic abortion protests for example). I hated people teasing me about the way my gods looked or the dots on my foreheads. I hated the fear that they represented to me, of hell and damnation. And then when 9/11 happened and my temple was vandalized, I began to hate Islam for somehow managing to brand people that look like me as a threat. And for Pakistan and its terrorism. But I was just a child, and I was too prideful to talk about it with anyone and internalizing.

I never had a phase of arguing with people over particulars of religions scientific validity or not, but a stark phase of hating religion, even the one I was raised on when I realized how it tied in with class conflict.
I don't actually visit r/athiesm so I have no idea but I just assumed that descriptor was the type who, well if you go into any of the threads on the first couple pages of OT GAF, they're making multi-quote posts jumping on every single thing someone has posted. (Or quoting and taking issue with a certain somebody posting Always Sunny quotes without attribution.) Or the people who circle jerk over the seven days of creation like that's the biggest epic burn ever.

I think any teens and later re-evaluation of any belief system is merely natural, and the force of the backlash would obviously depend on the circumstances. For one of my friends it was not going to church with his family on Sunday for like a couple months before eventually getting back into all the youth groups and going to a Wesleyan university. For another it was basically becoming a literal walking neckbeard without the video games. (They were opiate of the masses too just like TV, but not like music and D&D.) You had some obviously more severe outside factors. But I think that "time of life" it's really just about questioning assumptions even if unintentionally because as a whole part of adolescence you're more or less establishing your independence informally. And religion is a big part of a lot of peoples lives so naturally that would get roped in.

[I'm wandering off here and less responding to Esch than I already was.]

One of the things I often ruminate on is the underrated use of the value of the failure or null condition. Either because of my dysthymia or my statistics wankery or both. In any case, I've always found the information of it to be intensely more valuable than success. Success is easy and tells you nothing. There's too much unseen involved. If you succeed endlessly you really gain a small share of information. But by failure you're effectively testing hypothesis and thus gaining information on what variables and conditions and factors are and are not relevant.

To tie it to the topic of this thread, we had fun with Himuro Plinko but essentially that's really a series of hypothesis testing, and the current Himuro has a broader set of information than if she "got it right" the first or second time. Now obviously information for informations sake doesn't have much value unless you're weird like me but most people if subconsciously process this information and avoid future failure conditions without realizing it. Some do this better than others. (For those that don't, they get posted on The Smoking Gun or The Darwin Awards.) But through this process you inch every closer to a form of information threshold where you're sated with enough success that you almost instinctively pursue failure to bring more information in. For some people this never comes, but for others it's their mid-life crisis or an affair/divorce, or apparently now you're supposed to have a 25 year old crisis or something so if you've missed yours get to it.

To attempt again to tie it to the topic of this thread. Since spirituality or purpose or what have you is almost by definition an unknown unknown in many ways it's a never ending set of null conditions. And so it's much easier for that to be under control and you just do whatever the bishop, scripture, Iman, L. Ron, etc. says to ensure success.

So what am I saying? Basically nothing but that I just rediscovered the fact that life has experiences. Give me my grant money you stupid taxpayers.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2014, 03:17:50 AM
Spencer doesn't want to post? Fine then. You don't get me talking about how silly the human brain is and how it's constantly making up stories as observed through concentration meditation.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 06, 2014, 03:21:55 AM
The human brain is a social construct.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2014, 03:24:58 AM
I'm going to post this metta (loving kindness) meditation.

Please try to include it in your day to day!

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=W3uLqt69VyI
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 06, 2014, 03:37:41 AM
Unfortunately, I now forever associate Metta with Mr. World Peace.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: TakingBackSunday on April 06, 2014, 03:53:31 AM
be good to others, and others will be good to you

enjoy this world and this life, and perhaps you'll enjoy what lies next

It's what it is for me.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 06, 2014, 05:53:34 AM
Himu, my lady, I'd love to talk weird metaphysics with you but I'm drunk as fuck. Come play out west and I'll smoke you out and talk all you want

spoiler (click to show/hide)
if you flirt jussssstttt a little bit
[close]
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 08:04:43 AM
r/ anything is awful. Please stop going to reddit. Wading through all of that shit to find a meaningful nugget of whatever can hardly be worth it.

...and that's actually my life philosophy in a nutshell. A lot of fatalism and nihilism up in hurr these days. "Being alive hasn't turned out so well. It's to be hoped we'll all be better at being dead."
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2014, 08:29:56 AM
Honestly the anti-reddit brigade is silly. Reddit is a very useful site. Basing Reddit off the mainstream subs is stoopid. Reddit is a very large site and the subs I visit are very good.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 09:22:34 AM
Maybe, but the god awful organization/layout of the site is something I simply can't look past. Couple that with the general terribleness and there you go. Fuck it.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on April 06, 2014, 09:32:22 AM

http://www.reddit.com/r/AskHistorians/comments/1247fn/its_year_xxxx_of_your_specialty_a_dead_body_is/

http://www.reddit.com/r/asktransgender/comments/1ske7b/mtf_voice_training_regimen/


http://www.reddit.com/r/blackladies/comments/22b5ky/so_i_am_a_black_lesbian_i_feel_like_i_am_the/

http://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/1qp39r/buddha_be_aware_of_these_four_enemies_disguised/

http://www.reddit.com/r/MakeupAddiction/comments/22blkd/thread_simple_questions/

http://www.reddit.com/r/loseit/comments/1ua8s5/i_mentioned_in_my_progress_thread_a_few_weeks_ago/


REDDIT IS A SHIT SITE. I HAVE NEVER BEEN THERE BUT IT IS SHIT AND I KNOW WHAT I AM TALKING ABOUT. HATE POPULAR THINGS.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 09:38:23 AM
::)

For the love of fuck. I've been there plenty, and as stated, my inability to deal with their GOD AWFUL SITE DESIGN AND LAYOUT means I don't want to bother to wade through the shit to find anything decent. Or are you trying to say that, on balance, reddit is MOSTLY FULL OF USEFUL INFORMATION and I'm just full of shit? Because if so...

:gurl
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 10:35:28 AM
Caveat- I am a straight, white, CIS male. Fitting into society isn't that hard for me, other than the fact that I'm a raging shitheel 95% of the time. So, obviously I can only suppose that for someone not like me there may be added benefit/feeling of community in participating in various sub-reddits. Since I hate people and interacting with them in general, that would probably hold no interest for me even if I was in various minority groups. So, YMMV.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 06, 2014, 05:21:38 PM
Islam is cool and all, it really isn't as bad as you may have heard from fox news
That's just what they told me you'd say next thing we know BAM SHARIA'S LAW! WHOEVER THAT IS!
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on April 06, 2014, 05:27:34 PM
I believe in the church of worms. Meaning you live, you die, and then worms eat you after you decay and your coffin or ashes are exposed. 

And that's it. That's your life. Have fun.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 06, 2014, 05:53:19 PM
Interesting. It is certainly easier, but I'm of the opinion that individual research and journeys give you significantly better processing equipment to process whatever your L. Ron Hubbard tells you.
I agree with this, I was ruminating more on why people will take that path unlike how you and Himu were discussing more or less taking the best parts of various things.

Red Eye used to have Father Jonathan Morris on during their Good Period and I liked the way he talked about faith and such, and one of the things (in response to a viewer question) he said was to not be upset with a la carte/Sunday Christians but to pray for them to someday want to spend the time necessary to see the value of all of the Christian teachings. That that was its own reward, so those others aren't getting the same thing for free or less work.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Rufus on April 06, 2014, 06:40:16 PM
I believe in the church of worms. Meaning you live, you die, and then worms eat you after you decay and your coffin or ashes are exposed. 

And that's it. That's your life. Have fun.
Yeah, pretty much. Anything beyond that is wishful thinking to me.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 06:46:44 PM
I personally hope there's nothing after this, and no greater meaning, etc etc etc. I already find this life to be exhausting and awful. Blackness, please.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Raban on April 06, 2014, 06:58:54 PM
I'll leave it to one of the greatest scientists and educators of our time to share my views on spirituality
http://youtu.be/KLSw1TvpeyM
long dreamless sleep sounds aight to me. I was dead for billions of years before I was born, I'm okay with going back when the time comes.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Rufus on April 06, 2014, 07:00:24 PM
I wouldn't mind an afterlife so long as I got to see the universe develop. Turning into a ghost would be cooler though, but maybe that's just latent voyeurism.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 06, 2014, 07:08:16 PM
Without the thrill of maybe getting caught.  :fbm
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on April 06, 2014, 07:10:04 PM
I wouldn't mind an afterlife so long as I got to see the universe develop. Turning into a ghost would be cooler though, but maybe that's just latent voyeurism.

That's the only real sad part of dying to me. It's not necessarily missing your friends and families. Which is not to denigrate those things.

It's not getting to see the universe and our culture expand (or regress). I wouldn't mind be a non-entity that could explore the universe without directly interacting with it. That's far more appealing to me than the traditional concept of heaven.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Rufus on April 06, 2014, 07:32:10 PM
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Resomation :leon

Sounds pretty cool.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on April 06, 2014, 07:36:38 PM
Regarding death? I dont feel any sort of way about it. I just wanna make sure I do as little damage to mother earth as I go. Probably ask to get resomated and thrown in a nice garden somewhere. As far as the afterlife... im not preoccupied by it or thinking about mortality. Im just apathetic to it.

Not saying its not earnest but its also pretty easy to feel that way when you are your age. It seems like forever away.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 07:43:42 PM
I think about mortality quite a bit. I'd say that I'm sadly pretty much in line with 1995 era Rust Cohle as far as my view of humanity and existence.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on April 06, 2014, 07:58:51 PM
Never really had any near death experiences so I can't honestly speak to that. I was in a decent car wreck one time but that ended up being okay (Although it left me with a life-time skitishness when driving with others as a passenger).

I think I'm pretty typical. I think about death more especially as I get older, not that I'm remotely near it age wise or anything. It saddens me a bit. I assume as I get closer to it, I will have more acceptance towards it.

I don't like organized religion. I think it's really really bad for society and culture in general. I view it as a one time necessary part of social evolution but that it increasingly needs to go away for social evolution to keep progressing. That being said, I'm not rude about it unless a religious person is aggressive in pushing that stuff. I understand why some people need religion and hounding them about it doesn't do anyone any good. I care more about secularism than atheism because I think the former is more important than the latter even though I'm about as atheistic as you can be.

I don't mind people exploring some of the more spiritual based religions. As long as if it involves more ethics based teachings instead of magic and secret knowledge of the universe that the bigger religions are fond of.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 06, 2014, 10:31:11 PM
When I was 22, I was delivering papers late at night/early in the morning. Some idiot driving a black car with black tinted windows and no lights on pulled out in front of me at 3 am one night as I came over a hill in Athens, GA. I was only going probably 30ish or so, but as I was delivering papers I didn't have my seatbelt on, and back then delivery drivers that worked off hours didn't have to. Anyway, I slammed into the front end of his car (luckily he slammed on the breaks or I would have plowed into his driver's side door and killed him) and my head slammed into the windshield. I came to sitting next to my car and bleeding a lot. Had a concussion, needed a bunch of stitches, etc etc. That sort of sucked. Probably some permanent damage.

I still hope there's nothing in the afterlife, though.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 07, 2014, 03:11:15 PM
I'm not sure if religion is disappearing in as much as it is rebranding. Attempting to integrate a form of empiricism to a point. Which considering the history of religion isn't really new or anything.

I think the greater disorganization and informality is more a symptom of the evolution of modern life than anything. A town of 500 people having 250 churches and their attendant infrastructure just wasn't sustainable for so many reasons, now it's much easier to effectively achieve that.

I mean look at shit like Power Balance and Scientology. There's still a market for some of the...uh, less empirical...aspects of religion.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on April 07, 2014, 03:17:17 PM
I have very little opinion about Reddit
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: recursivelyenumerable on April 07, 2014, 03:17:48 PM
Religion needs to adopt a faster shipping cadence if it doesn't want to be disrupted.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 07, 2014, 03:30:07 PM
I think there's another reason for the decline in charities and community organizations, obviously.  :teehee

Even with being raised on secular humanism it seems there's still an inherent want for that higher purpose like Himu has suggested, and that's part of why I used "rebranding" as things will take the place of the formal structures if organized religion is to fade away. There are lots of things to point to that "aren't" religions but have a lot of the same stuff in common and seem to be being used to "fill that void" organized religion once held. I think I've seen that millennials that are religious are much more fervent about it than the last few generations have been.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Human Snorenado on April 07, 2014, 03:42:56 PM
I don't like organized religion. I think it's really really bad for society and culture in general. I view it as a one time necessary part of social evolution but that it increasingly needs to go away for social evolution to keep progressing. That being said, I'm not rude about it unless a religious person is aggressive in pushing that stuff. I understand why some people need religion and hounding them about it doesn't do anyone any good. I care more about secularism than atheism because I think the former is more important than the latter even though I'm about as atheistic as you can be.
Ive actually been mulling this over a lot. Religion is a distinct method of passing down a blend of history, language, ethics and philosophy, metaphysics,  and spirituality. As our global society grows less and less religious, what will take the place of it. Philosophy? Education? Where will the content of all that end up? I dont mean that in an alarmist sense, just curious.

I just think its going to be interesting to see the forceful contraction and disappearance of religious infrastructure in our (my?) lifetime.

Have you seen Idiocracy? Stupidity will take it's place, is my guess.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Brehvolution on April 07, 2014, 03:44:15 PM
I went to church twice on Sunday and every Wednesday night for youth group. What passes for "Christianity" these days is nothing like what I remembered growing up. I find a lot of them quite detestable. The term "Religious Freedom" is an oxymoron. There is nothing that kills freedom faster than religion.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 07, 2014, 04:10:17 PM
Yeah, I would say religions position of power had more to do with it than anything necessarily inherent.

One of Martin Luther's complaints IIRC.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 07, 2014, 04:22:58 PM
I had a near death out of body experience when I was pretty young. I was maybe somewhere between 6-9, and got swept into the ocean. I remember watching from a 3rd person aerial perspective my dad run along the coast line and snatch me out. I used to have dreams about it all the time, but mostly forgot about until a few years ago when I did an ungodly amount of mushrooms out in the desert and the memory came pouring back. I asked my parents about it, and spooked them out when I told them about the out of body experience. My dad said "Well, thats not good" :lol When I die, I would like my body returned to the sea, I feel a strong connection with the ocean. Preferably whole so I'll be eaten and further benefit some life.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 07, 2014, 04:36:44 PM
If there wasnt anyone still alive to be distressed by it, I'd probably like to be eaten alive :lol
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on April 07, 2014, 04:44:29 PM
If there wasnt anyone still alive to be distressed by it, I'd probably like to be eaten alive :lol
(http://31.media.tumblr.com/tumblr_lf79iliAVc1qfa84uo1_500.gif)
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on April 07, 2014, 04:49:07 PM
I've consumed a lot of flesh, seems a fitting penance :yeshrug
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: lordmaji on April 07, 2014, 04:51:00 PM
Enlightenment comes with age. Wait till you're older. :P
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 07, 2014, 11:49:02 PM
Hmmm.

Okay so, I became a Christian apostate when I was 18. That said, I still help out my old church. I've known those people my entire life, so I find it disrespectful to not help now and then when they need the support. More than that, I am of the opinion that all religions lead to the same ultimate goal, but you can go for your own favored method or philosophy. So I know there's some good people there trying to live their life to their God, and I've always respected that.

Further, the church is dying. Well, not literally. But the young adults it has is paltry compared to the numbers they had two decades ago when I was a child. People my age just aren't joining, and those who are members (such as myself) don't come. They've got a small stable of regular young adult members who are faithful to the church, and unfortunately, churches are like a business - they need new blood to continue on and the elder members aren't exactly getting younger. This of course, is a church-wide issue, and not exactly new. But it's a problem my old church faces.

So every now and they, as I said, I like to help out. They've tried to coax me into attending again, but I really only attend to support my family (family/friends being in plays, or choir singing, things like that). I got a letter in the mail that said they are holding a meeting for all young adults at the church to talk about some ideas to get more young adults.

Now, here's my dilemma. I'm an atheist, and if I'm going to help them going forward, I think i should be candid on my views and not throw kid punches. I'd like to help them, even if it's small. Should I reveal my lack of belief to them and then throw out some ideas? How should I present ideas to them from the guise of a non-believer without causing offense?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 12:15:17 AM
I was going to say that I'm a non-believer and give them data on low young adult attendance via polling research, and follow that up with ways that church organizations have communicated they can gain new young members. As in, express that I know a lot of people who are now non-religious, or even go as far as being non-believers, and these are the reasons they do not attend, here's way to connect with young adults who you potentially CAN reach.

Good idea?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 12:24:14 AM
I highly doubt anyone will watch this, but I'm a big supporter of Ajahn Brahm. I find him very wise. I haven't been practicing lately, I need to get back on that.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=H94Dz4Iq2d4

He makes some of the most beautiful dharma talks. 
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 12:33:06 AM
At the same time, I feel like I should be honest. I don't think there's very little to gain by hiding it anymore.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Madrun Badrun on May 08, 2014, 12:35:30 AM
I've been getting heavily into Rastafarianism lately; mostly for rastacap.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 12:42:27 AM
Maybe I'm just not at the age yet where lying as a form of conflict avoidance bothers me.

It's not that it doesn't bother me too. It's just that I feel like I can help them more by telling them the truth rather than avoiding it, because there's many more like me - increasingly so - in the black american community.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on May 08, 2014, 12:55:04 AM
I don't think you would be "helping them" them much by doing such a thing although in this context I don't really know what help means. You might feel better for being honest and getting people to stop trying to get you to go back to church which are probably good things but also separate things.

There are times for honesty and there are times for white lies. Each person decides when those thing best apply to their situations.

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 12:56:57 AM
Well, I guess I should keep it to myself, but then the question will come up, why I don't attend. I feel as if it'll become a subject anyways.

Should I even go?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on May 08, 2014, 01:04:41 AM
Well, I guess I should keep it to myself, but then the question will come up, why I don't attend. I feel as if it'll become a subject anyways.

Should I even go?

I'm not necessarily trying to influence you either way. If you tell them you are an atheist that's fine. If you don't tell them that's fine too. But it you think its a subject now and questions come up with your current stance, stating you are an atheist will only lead to more questions initially and maybe even stronger attempts to convert you. That along with a lot of judgment about you That's what religious people do. I'm not saying that's not potentially worth it. Honesty can be a good thing. I just also find that honesty can be a bit of a hassle in some situations.

With friends I've met as an adult I'm very obvious about my atheist feelings. With people I grew up with or family, I tend to keep it to myself. They get the impression afterwhile that I'm not religious and leave me alone on such issues when I don't engage back. That's probably not the most honest way to live but its also easier imo than having a religious debate with people who are very religious. Those conversations, I personally tend to find pointless as nobody convinces anybody of anything. If a young person in the family were to ask me my opinion, I would be honest with them though. I would tell them I don't believe in any one religion. I don't know what happens. And that's the way I live my life.

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 01:10:40 AM
I don't talk about it either. But in this case, where we are trying to discuss ways to get the church new blood, I feel it could be pertinent. You're right though, it could backfire. I almost feel just going would backfire since I go to church once or twice a year, so them sending me an invitation to the meeting is already a form of conversion attempt.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on May 08, 2014, 01:17:28 AM
I find myself debating the morals of my friends/family religion with them rather than the legitimacy of the concept of religion itself. Because I feel I might change their opinion on the former but have very little chance on the latter.

I constantly tell them their views on gay people are ignorant and backwards. We as black people should be the last people to be prejudiced toward other groups. So I feel like I get the good feelings of honesty I want without the immediate hard stone block that the word atheist conjures for religious people.

But that's just me. There is probably equal merit and potential gain from just being honest which some other person might be able to elucidate on.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 01:27:30 AM
I don't say shit about it because I know that's a touchy issue. One time when I was teen, I was watching a Moses movie with my dad and they get to the part where they put blood above the homes to protect them from God's wrath on Egypt, where he kills all first born children. I blurted out loud,"welllll...that's fucked up" and my dad got pissed that I would call what he believes fucked up. I try not to bring it up and try to be respectful at all times when I'm in the company of believers.

My parents know of my non belief. I'm definitely candid when the subject comes up.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 10:04:26 PM
edit
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on May 08, 2014, 10:13:06 PM
New Ajahn Brahm dharma talk.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Krhmz-dau0s

Quote
Have you ever gotten upset or angry when people don't appreciate all the kindness you've shown them? Ajahn Brahm explains how to keep giving without expecting or getting any reward.

Very wise, intelligent man.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 23, 2014, 03:06:17 PM
Instead of going to the meeting I wrote a four page letter detailing the nature of how they can get their young adult ministry healthy again. I detailed pragmatic approach that discussed the church's lack of diversity, conservative sermons, and emphasis on non legitimate attempts to get the church booming again (for example, a guitarist) that young adults will sniff out as a desperate plea for new life. I told them I was not alone, that this was not their problem but a church-wide problem and that they would do better combining their heads with fellow churches struggling with the same problem. With the lack of young adults coming to church, competition shouldn't be the focus anymore, naturally. I talked about things such as Christian exceptionalism, the Christian bubble where they think they are one giant club and don't have to confer to anyone else. I printed out articles that go over the young adult church exodus and ways to help it. I thought my letter was pragmatic, respectful, and shining in realism.

I went to church the next week and apparently the lady I sent the letter to "keeps it with her at all times" so I tested her and asked if I could see the letter so I could edit something in. She didn't have it. :jawalrus she said it was insightful and that she respected my opinion and that the letter was amazingly telling of what they're up against. I apologized if she felt the letter rude or curt. But I stressed that I really care because I've known the people my whole life.

she said my peers want a more contemporary service, and that includes...I'm not even sure. They're not even sure. I gave them a solid game plan and ideas and they discarded it.

My mom later told me that she really thought the letter was "negative" and that I shouldn't bother going to the next meeting if I'm going to be negative and that my letter was not constructive. She was bemused as to how a someone who rejected Christianity at 17-18 would have any interest in helping a Christian church. Really?

They were also offended by some of my suggestions. I suggested they implement something from a dharma talk. Dharma talks are Buddhist sermons where after the person giving the sermon the whole group has a dialogue about the subject, a "talk" so to speak, and that allows the people there to ask the person giving the talk for advice. It's practical and it includes everyone in the room. It makes everyone feel more connected than just listening to one dude tell us how to feel for half an hour. They were insulted I brought up dharma talks and my mom asked if I would bring up Christianity at a Buddhist temple. Yes, I've met many Christians at the zen center.

But that's besides the point, I'm highly annoyed the lady I mailed the letter to - who is someone I've known since I was born - she lied to my face about how she felt, and that they proved me right with their Christian Club exceptionalism (tm), which sadly disappointed me even more.

I'm not sure what I was expecting. I don't think I'll be going to the church again except to support my family. The next time they ask me to do something for them, I will flat out tell them, I don't believe in Jesus, leave me alone, in the nicest way possible unless it's something that actually helps people (food bank).
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on June 23, 2014, 03:39:06 PM
You think too highly of people, Him-chan.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 23, 2014, 03:43:54 PM
You can never think too highly if people. I just wanted to help. I see the church dying in ten-fifteen years.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Kara on June 23, 2014, 04:48:05 PM
Sorry it didn't work out, H, but you took a lot of initiative there and that's commendable.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 23, 2014, 05:48:18 PM
Maybe it was because I wrote a letter and letters can be interpreted in their own way. In person may be lots better. Should I give it another shot?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on June 24, 2014, 12:52:53 AM
Maybe it was because I wrote a letter and letters can be interpreted in their own way. In person may be lots better. Should I give it another shot?

Like you said, the church is probably going to die within the next couple of decades because of its myopism and inability to evolve at the same pace as society, why do you want it survive so bad then?

If it is because you like the position it has in your community, why not instead focus your energies on helping open up some sort of Multi-religious center where people of all faiths and creed can come and discuss without prejudice, and do stuff like Dharma talks regardless of their belief?

(http://i.imgur.com/YTG2PZC.png)
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Kara on June 24, 2014, 02:13:52 AM
Maybe it was because I wrote a letter and letters can be interpreted in their own way. In person may be lots better. Should I give it another shot?

I've only read one of your letters but you seemed able to express yourself in that medium plenty fine.

If it matters to you, and it seems like it does, then another approach seems warranted given the response you received. What would you do differently in person?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 24, 2014, 02:49:16 AM
I don't know why I care so much. I can't turn it off. I for some reason have a sense of duty to care about the churches future in some way. Despite not attending. Which is stupid. I'm not attached to the church. It is a thing to me. But the people within it are people who truly were or are vested in my opinion, and I feel like if I don't offer it, as someone with a perspective on why they're not gaining young people, it would do them a disservice.

As for opening up religious center, I think that community is important and as expressed in this thread multiple times, community be more than religion. However, it is nice for people of different religions to gather. For some reason, I have no desire to open a faith center for multiple faiths because I've already experienced that at the zen center through meditation classes and dharma talks. I feel like I have nothing to offer, spiritually, to anyone. I have gone from Christian to confused agnostic to experimental Muslim to a "finally can come to terms with the fact I'm an" atheist. So I don't think about that because I know that I offer very little in that venue.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 24, 2014, 03:04:07 AM
Maybe it was because I wrote a letter and letters can be interpreted in their own way. In person may be lots better. Should I give it another shot?

I've only read one of your letters but you seemed able to express yourself in that medium plenty fine.

If it matters to you, and it seems like it does, then another approach seems warranted given the response you received. What would you do differently in person?

Well, in person we can talk about things. If they want to talk about a contemporary service, which is something the kids I grew up with - now young adults - think is crucial to the growth of the church despite pursuing that since we were 14/15 years old I would be able to deflect and try to make them think about more than just the latest fad. They've worked with fads a lot over the years. If they bring up a musician for instance, an easy retort to that is why would young adults choose our church over Lakewood Church, which is literally 10 minutes away? I'd be able to tell them that rather than mimicking larger churches, they should fill a niche that appeals to other people. Because if people want that contemporary mega church feel, Houston has one if not the largest mega church in the USA, so why should someone pick you over Lakewood and the black mega churches in the area? There's a church on the same street that's one minute away and they look exceedingly healthy. I'm going to emphasize visiting other churches and research on what they can truly do to individualize themselves. The fact that I'm going to approach it as a business is again, a big reason as to why I am no longer Christian.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 24, 2014, 03:09:12 AM
Lakewood:

http://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lakewood_Church
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 24, 2014, 12:33:35 PM
I may do this Bodhisattva class. :larry

I'm open minded to it. But I didn't do the introduction to Zen class. Unless they're talking about the introduction to Meditation class.

http://www.houstonzen.org/html/events.html

I wish I had the opportunity to go to ethnic zen places more often but they're all in Chinatown, which is on the edge of Houston.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on June 25, 2014, 03:59:54 AM
Zen is cool stuff.
I'm a raging materialist with no spiritual beliefs now though.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 29, 2014, 02:46:28 PM
Went to the meeting today. Last time I go to that church unless it's for a funeral.

These people are the same shallow, uppity, moronic middle class blacks they were a decade ago when we were teenagers. The premise of the meeting? Things we want done to worship to appeal to the young adults. But anyone with a brain - which these people do not have btw - would know that the problem of this church:

(http://i.imgur.com/ndN6Rkk.jpg?1)

Isn't worship.

This church that I've been apart of since birth is a black church in the currently being gentrified neighborhood of Houston's Third Ward - think of the Wards like Sectors from FFVII. Instead of adapting to their neighborhood or being a foothold in their community, they're worried about how to make the church worship service be more contemporary. Let's have jazz music and young adult days while we ignore the fact that the pastors own daughter has found a new church. Instead of focusing on how and why they're driving people away, they sat there talking about how they're self conscious about what to wear to church. I fucking hate uppity middle class blacks so fucking much.

They focused on the fact that the young adults don't have much say in the church. Problem is, we talked about the same shit when we were pre teens and teenagers. We had to fight to be allowed to serve communion. Bunch of self important "educated" distinguished black fellows ran the church then, and ran the church now. So while they were fiddling with their AKA badges, I brought up the point that we've been having that dialogue since 1997 or earlier, and that we should focus on being a group that will make other people want to come. Did they respond well to that? Nope! "I agree, I can't invite my friends because they like to go to church wearing jeans and a t-shirt. I don't think they'd feel comfortable." :snoop

Fucking. Morons.

Then the pastors wife, who was in the meeting too, brought up that if we aren't comfortable amongst ourselves, we should to expect others to feel comfortable in our church. Well said, ma'am. Meanwhile, no one sat next to me. One of the pastors daughters even came to the meeting. Empty seat next to me. I don't stink, I look good, I've known you for years, bitch. She gonna go look for another seat, and dude goes out to get a new chair. I walked out after that. These people lack the awareness of someone both blind and deaf. Agreeing with the pastors wife that they need to get to know each other more while making me feel like a leper in their super, secret exclusive I've got a stick up my ass Black Christian club.

You know, I like to back up my arguments with evidence and analysis. So before going to "my" church I went to a church a minute away on the same street. Nice and healthy. I visited and they are everything "my" church needs. Look at the evidence yourself.

Since I'm on the topic of exclusivity,  which church looks more inviting as a spiritual community?

The church with cars packed out in front or the one where everyone parks in the back?

(http://i.imgur.com/BHJwVQf.jpg?1)

(http://i.imgur.com/RdKscUP.jpg?1)


The church that appeals to a wider range of demographics that actually reflects the neighborhood?

(http://i.imgur.com/0BvyIwH.jpg?1)


Or the exclusive one that appeals only to blacks?

(http://i.imgur.com/ndN6Rkk.jpg?1)

I resolved after leaving the meeting today that I have no place there. The people I once knew are now vapid strangers. I want nothing to do with them and their poisonous church. I tried. Time to put my coat up.

My dad agrees. But he won't leave because my mom is in the clique.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on June 29, 2014, 03:35:00 PM
~LCD screens in a church~

American materialism  :whew
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 29, 2014, 04:03:50 PM
:beli
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Kara on June 29, 2014, 04:10:46 PM
I really admire your dedication to helping this community H, I'm just sorry they don't want to be helped.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on June 29, 2014, 06:08:10 PM
In all seriousness, it is great you're being a helpful human being himu.
We could do with more people like you on this gay Earth.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 29, 2014, 07:04:16 PM
All I did was to a meeting. I didn't do shit.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Yeti on June 29, 2014, 08:42:06 PM
Not for lack of trying though.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 29, 2014, 10:36:38 PM
Meh.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on June 30, 2014, 01:26:57 AM
I realize that a lot of those words I posted today were made in anger and frustration. They were not the right words to eBay, and it was an immature post created by own hubris and emotional state. I have a lot of work to do, I guess.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on June 30, 2014, 04:37:40 AM
Find peace with Allah.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 01:26:09 PM
Hmm. Talked to friend about Sunday and I'm willing to try again.

I decided I'm going to take that bodhisattva class. Let the road of self improvement continue. :punch though I am worried I am not up to the task, I'm willing to try. Nothing will hurt trying.

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on July 02, 2014, 01:28:09 PM
There is no try, there is only do or do not.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 01:32:29 PM
Watched some vid with Steve Buscemi and a monk about that very thing a few minutes ago.

Another Anahn Brahm talk, this time on living life without religious hierarchy.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=xIZNqQH1Ghw&list=TLOiYMXHd2BZTTzo2FnMNSALWOmy52t2zZ
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on July 02, 2014, 07:23:10 PM
After some more introspection I'm beginning to accept that psychedelics might not the best thing for me in this current stage of life I'm going through.

Once I have my own place I might purchase an isolation tank and use that as a means to sort myself out.  :larry
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 07:23:44 PM
Huh?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Positive Touch on July 02, 2014, 07:26:43 PM
After some more introspection I'm beginning to accept that psychedelics might not the best thing for me in this current stage of life I'm going through.

Once I have my own place I might purchase an isolation tank and use that as a means to sort myself out.  :larry

https://www.google.com/search?q=cool+story+bro&es_sm=122&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ei=EJW0U9DmDcGOyAT66oLACA&ved=0CAgQ_AUoAQ&biw=960&bih=474
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on July 02, 2014, 07:28:24 PM
Huh?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KeqmKwsvM58
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 07:34:14 PM
What does that have to do with spirituality/religion? I mean, LSD can create a spiritual experience, but it isn't spirituality in itself.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on July 02, 2014, 07:40:32 PM
After some more introspection I'm beginning to accept that psychedelics might not the best thing for me in this current stage of life I'm going through.

Once I have my own place I might purchase an isolation tank and use that as a means to sort myself out.  :larry

Good on you.
I think the best thing you could do is "get outside more".

Maybe getting a little bit of sunshine on you will help, you know vitamin D deficiencies and stuff.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on July 02, 2014, 07:42:37 PM
What does that have to do with spirituality/religion? I mean, LSD can create a spiritual experience, but it isn't spirituality in itself.
Spirituality, to me, encapsulates altered states of consciousness through psychedelics, meditation, sensory deprivation, etc.  :yeshrug

Good on you.
I think the best thing you could do is "get outside more".

Maybe getting a little bit of sunshine on you will help, you know vitamin D deficiencies and stuff.
Yeah, once I quit my 2nd job after July I'll definitely be outside more.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 08:00:55 PM
What type of meditation do you do?

How can you think psychedelics encapsulate a spiritual consciousness if you've never done them?
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on July 02, 2014, 08:13:25 PM
What type of meditation do you do?
Vipassana.

I've only done around five 30 minutes sessions so far but once I quit my 2nd job I'll have more time to dedicate to it.
Quote
How can you think psychedelics encapsulate a spiritual consciousness if you've never done them?
From some of the accounts that I've read and listened to.

I mean, I am of the mindset that everything can be and is a spiritual experience to some degree.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 08:31:14 PM
Okay. What I experience did you have with vippasana?

Haven't done vippasana, but with zen, I get a better handle at taking my mind, and the brains stories, but I never considered it a higher level of consciousness. However it does help create some odd moments. The more you stare at the wall, the more shapes and light changes. It can be an odd, and somewhat frightening experience. One time while meditating, the room got black. It was really my eyes and the way they perceived light differently, but it helps to feed the idea that the senses are created by mere perception and what we perceive to be true, even if it is false. It truly makes one question our surroundings and what we are currently sensing. At least that was my interpretation, which cannot be wholly correct because that was my own personal experience.

One of my favorite things about zazen is the realization that our brains really aren't us. The brain is a part of us of course, but the more I meditate, the more it almost comes off like a parasite. When you sit in a room, staring at a wall, and pay attention to everything around you, it's incredibly hard to stop thinking. Of course, the goal isn't to stop thinking, but it's funny how the brain always comes up with irrelevant stories. It can't just shut up. I find that element fascinating, as it truly makes the rare moment of stillness all the more illuminating.


Don't you have to sit for long sessions in vippasana? My zazen meditation times are 20-30 minutes a sit.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 08:32:49 PM

(http://i.imgur.com/evasKP9.jpg)



:stahp
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Atramental on July 02, 2014, 09:17:45 PM
Okay. What experience did you have with vippasana?
Can't really say that I've "experienced" much so far. I mean, I'm just starting out.

All I do (or at least try to do) is focus on my breathing while thoughts, feelings, and sensations bubble up. And if I get too lost in thought I come to realization that I'm lost in thought and then I go back to focusing on my breathing.

Don't you have to sit for long sessions in vippasana? My zazen meditation times are 20-30 minutes a sit.
I don't believe there's really a set time limit for vipassana.

It's basically "do it for as long as you can stand to do it and don't try to force yourself into long, tedious sessions"

The reason why I'm trying out vipassana is because I've heard it's a good for people who are new to meditation (which I am).
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 02, 2014, 09:25:30 PM
There is no set time in zen. I just like 30 minutes.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on July 16, 2014, 02:17:19 PM
(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2014/07/PF_14.07.16_interreligiousRelations_ALL.png)
(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2014/07/PF-2014-07-16-religiousViews-00.png)
(http://www.pewforum.org/files/2014/07/PF-2014-07-16-religiousViews-02.png)
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 16, 2014, 02:19:50 PM
well that's fascinating though not surprising
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on July 16, 2014, 03:11:51 PM
http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Squiddy on July 16, 2014, 03:53:22 PM
http://www.science20.com/writer_on_the_edge/blog/scientists_discover_that_atheists_might_not_exist_and_thats_not_a_joke-139982

Interesting statistics, shit article.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Rufus on July 16, 2014, 04:20:01 PM
Quote
When researchers asked people whether they had taken part in esoteric spiritual practices such as having a Reiki session or having their aura read, the results were almost identical (between 38 and 40%) for people who defined themselves as religious, non-religious or atheist.

    The implication is that we all believe in a not dissimilar range of tangible and intangible realities. Whether a particular brand of higher consciousness is included in that list (“I believe in God”, “I believe in some sort of higher force”, “I believe in no higher consciousness”) is little more than a detail.
:heh
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Kara on July 16, 2014, 04:42:54 PM
So Jewish people like themselves the most eh. :larry

Guess that's another stereotype annihilated. :hitler
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on November 19, 2014, 03:20:00 PM
http://www.tricycle.com/blog/dont-just-sit-there-do-something

:whew

Amazing piece

Took a steaming dump on passive western "buddhism" :whoo
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on November 20, 2014, 03:44:08 PM
Great thread.

http://www.reddit.com/r/Buddhism/comments/2mu99k/buddhism_at_work/
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on November 21, 2014, 07:54:55 PM
http://www.tricycle.com/feature/present-moment

Targets the modern Mindfulness movement. Defends and critiques it. Very informative.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: CatsCatsCats on November 25, 2014, 10:38:45 AM
Is anyone here familiar with nonviolent communication (NVC) ?

There's a series on YouTube on it, I listened to the first two sessions and it really speaks to me

http://www.cnvc.org/


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EfaKIhtR3ro
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on November 25, 2014, 12:23:59 PM
I am in dire need of spirituality right now. I am hurting inside deeply. I need to practice metta.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: kick51 on November 25, 2014, 12:46:56 PM
What type of meditation do you do?
Vipassana.

I've only done around five 30 minutes sessions so far but once I quit my 2nd job I'll have more time to dedicate to it.
Quote
How can you think psychedelics encapsulate a spiritual consciousness if you've never done them?
From some of the accounts that I've read and listened to.

I mean, I am of the mindset that everything can be and is a spiritual experience to some degree.

I think this book sums up psychedelics nicely:
http://www.amazon.com/dp/B008DZEWF8

It's kind of an extreme example.  but I could relate to it perfectly up until his trip started going on for weeks.

What they actually do is break down the system of symbolism most of us are accustomed to/agree on, which makes up reality.  A chair is a chair, we don't think much of it aside from it's practical use, its physical location, maybe what it's made of, etc.  but on psychedelics, it can come to symbolize the support the whole world needs to keep going and then your brain uses this as a springboard to riff for an hour or 8 about the meaning of life and wow the wood grain is swirling like a hurricane, no wait, it's a spiral, the spiral is like energy and energy is what makes up everything and blah blah blah.   

It lets your mind wander and make associations like crazy.  This can lead to positive realizations and insights into one's self. It allows you to think much differently than you ever have before.  But it doesn't really grant anyone special spiritual insights that aren't attainable in sober life and more importantly, it's just like being "told" these things, you still have to act on them or figure out how to act on them.  I found it just creaked open my mind and made me more adventurous/calm in every day life.  And I had some trips where I really just sat there thinking myself into oblivion, trying to write things down that made sense, then reading them in the morning and wondering what the fuck "balloon is the heart beat of the lungs, the energy of truth is everywhere" means.

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on November 25, 2014, 01:24:17 PM
LSD was about the only time I've ever experienced anything close to spirituality. I'd take psychedelics over any traditional religion any day of the week.

At least the fleeting inner peace that comes with that doesn't force me to join in collective delusion.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on November 25, 2014, 01:38:53 PM
I like organized religion :yeshrug

Or at least examining it as a social construct and wrestling with its concepts/learning about its greater ramifications in the human experience. I don't really have to deal with any dogmatic zealots on a regular basis so that probably colors my outlook; I understand how that could get annoying.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: kick51 on November 25, 2014, 01:43:12 PM
LSD was about the only time I've ever experienced anything close to spirituality. I'd take psychedelics over any traditional religion any day of the week.

At least the fleeting inner peace that comes with that doesn't force me to join in collective delusion.


Some famous person said everyone should try LSD at least once.  There's probably some truth to that.  of course, we'd have a lot of people discovering their latent schizophrenia and others going fucking ballistic with the whole free association thing.   :lol

It's not a super safe bet though.  It can also just lead you down a completely weird tangent in life.  I started trying to get deep into eastern philosophy and religion, but in that dumb, superficial "just looking for confirmation bias" way.  I thought I was finding the secret to happiness or whatever it was I was trying to grasp during my trips, just because it was something different (kinda like how weeaboos think japanese shit is superior just because of the exotic mystique factor.) then I took an academic class on the history of confucianism, taoism, and buddhism and had the realization that I could pretty much never "get" it...it's too much of a cultural barrier for a white suburban boy to cross.  That is, to practice those religions in the way they're meant to be practiced and not just reading books for soundbytes that confirm my existence.  And that "it" was just as silly as any western religion...they all mean well in their texts, it's just how people have interpreted them that sucks.  Oppression has been instated and blood has been shed in the name of eastern religion as well at certain points of history.  The marketing for this stuff in the west glosses over the truth of what those religions are--they're just other religions like the ones we have in the west!  Not to completely undermine them. There are things we can learn from them, culturally and philosophically.

I'm kinda lucky and never got heavy into it.  It gets much uglier than that.  Got to any Phish show parking lot while the concert is going and see all the human waste that just sits outside, completely out of it, looking like shit.  :lol

Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on November 25, 2014, 01:50:48 PM
I like organized religion :yeshrug

Or at least examining it as a social construct and wrestling with its concepts/learning about its greater ramifications in the human experience. I don't really have to deal with any dogmatic zealots on a regular basis so that probably colors my outlook; I understand how that could get annoying.

I don't like any of the super natural religions just based on concept and logic but everybody is entitled to their opinions on what delusions they need to cope and get by with. In countries where religion has been neutered it's probably tolerable at least. I wish I lived in one of those countries.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Stoney Mason on November 25, 2014, 01:58:30 PM
Some famous person said everyone should try LSD at least once.

I definitely would fall into that thinking. I think people should try it at least once if only to see how a slight chemical imbalance can make you believe anything with the strongest feelings you've ever felt. Traditional religion only made sense to me after I had tried LSD.

That being said, like anything its easy to over-dose on something that you feel gives you deeper insight into the life condition until you become a husk. You still have to have some kind of tether that grounds you to real life.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on November 25, 2014, 02:11:13 PM
Not to be pedantic,  but what even is organized religion? :dualities

There's been a lot of literature written since the 70s on civil religion and the nature of transcendence that argue that, in modernity, national symbols/flags/etc and mass culture occupy the same role that religion used to in western society; it's why I don't fuck with the notion that western secularism and clericalism are inherently opposed to each other. Imo, there's evidence they're just two sides of the same coin
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 25, 2014, 02:12:16 PM
A message from black people: LSD and black people do not mix. Trust me. Been there. Not good we argue with turtles and shit.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on December 11, 2014, 08:46:40 PM
This article perfectly encapsulates what I've been dealing with for a few weeks. It is ruining me spiritually and emotionally. I feel like I have regressed ten years in terms of how I think of others' well being. I cannot fucking empathize with anyone right now. I'm just pissed and I have no idea what to do with it aside from kick and punch a muay thai bag. I haven't taken any vows, or precepts or anything, and I feel like such a goddamn fool.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2014/12/do-bodhisattvas-get-angry-a-response-to-to-the-killing-of-eric-garner/
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on December 21, 2014, 01:10:18 PM
I wrote a letter to the pastor to rescind my church membership because it forces me into obligations and rote calls to try to bring me into the fold.

I Decided not to do it.

Dad said I'm doing this cause drama. That I do this on purpose, and that I'm trying to ruin them (my parents). I said that the letter shouldn't cause drama in an ideal church. Then he went on a rant about how my friend died from drugs as a teenager, that he was stupid and killed himself and somehow that's related to the letter because in his mind it all connects because that's when I started to think like this. That's not what happened. He said I'm not an atheist, and that the letter was disrespectful. I said I talked to a few people about it, and they didn't find it disrespectful at all, and he was like,"well of course, they think like you!"

So it's whatever. Lol I'm not doing it.
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on February 05, 2015, 05:33:59 PM
Don't mean to start any shit, just was watching this debate and died at this part: Christopher Hitchens and Peter Hitchens: Brothers debate God and War  (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1XHv7IQCg-w)
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IPD1YGghtDk
 :dead :dead :dead :dead

Surprised Hitch didn't use it more often as this is his only use of the bit I can seem to find from a casual search.

Necocracy
 :lawd
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: benjipwns on February 07, 2015, 07:56:56 PM
To be fair and balanced:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SyKAr-gxxFE
Title: Re: spirituality/philosophy/religion thread
Post by: Himu on February 07, 2015, 08:31:48 PM
I stopped watching that video halfway and i can say about that video is :umad I'm atheist and I think Earth and the universe are beautiful and that life is more than reproduction.