THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Cerveza mas fina on April 30, 2015, 10:01:34 AM

Title: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on April 30, 2015, 10:01:34 AM: Whats your stance on profiting on misfortune?

How would you feel working for a pharma company selling overpriced meds to the sick? Etc.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Madrun Badrun on April 30, 2015, 10:04:03 AM: I would feel sick about it, unless I was the boss. Then I'd be rolling in the stock options and telling my friends that the first pill costs a billion dollars on a yacht.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: I'm a Puppy! on April 30, 2015, 10:04:36 AM: It's the american way.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Narolf on April 30, 2015, 10:06:59 AM: If those are meds meant for mental health, I wouldn't mind at all...
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Phoenix Dark on April 30, 2015, 10:08:52 AM: You tell me, white man.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Joe Molotov on April 30, 2015, 10:27:12 AM: If only I could find a way to profit off my own misfortune, I'd be rich by now.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Kara on April 30, 2015, 10:45:49 AM: When you accept that a mode of production is fundamentally immoral it becomes quite easy to work with anyone on anything.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Great Rumbler on April 30, 2015, 12:39:10 PM: Quote from: Esch on April 30, 2015, 10:12:39 AM
you're always profiting off someone's misfortune

(http://i.minus.com/jY3NmlmHUnYoy.png)
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on April 30, 2015, 12:48:48 PM: Quote from: Esch on April 30, 2015, 10:12:39 AM
you're always profiting off someone's misfortune

(http://i.imgur.com/Z5NGREQ.png)

Made me feel better thx
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Huff on April 30, 2015, 12:56:08 PM: Quote from: Premium Lager on April 30, 2015, 10:01:34 AM

How would you feel working for a pharma company selling overpriced meds to the sick?

Basically my dream job
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: nudemacusers on April 30, 2015, 01:00:43 PM: i would much rather profit off apathy and cynicism. it's a growth market. abject misery is trending down for 2016.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: chronovore on April 30, 2015, 01:19:05 PM: You’ll always be making money off of something that someone couldn’t do for themselves. Medical research costs money, recouping costs is part of business.

It’s not like you’re working for a PMC, right?
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: ToxicAdam on April 30, 2015, 01:23:52 PM: I'd feel worse working for a rent to own furniture company.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Rufus on April 30, 2015, 02:32:53 PM: Payday loan places are pretty fucking evil.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: nudemacusers on April 30, 2015, 03:33:15 PM: Quote from: ToxicAdam on April 30, 2015, 01:23:52 PM
I'd feel worse working for a rent to own furniture company.
yeah honestly those are just a notch above payday loans.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Positive Touch on April 30, 2015, 03:44:11 PM: yeah there ain't a perfect way to live but it definitely isn't all the same. like Monsanto is just a couple minutes away from me, but I wouldn't even sweep the floor for those scumbags(the only job I'd be qualified for there anyway). payday loans are another example. you gotta feed your family but there's some shit you just don't need to do
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: tiesto on April 30, 2015, 03:48:18 PM: I worked for a defense contractor for 9 years so you tell me...

To be fair nearly all of the work I did was in simulation.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Kara on April 30, 2015, 04:02:02 PM: Check cashing is scummier than payday loans imo.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on May 01, 2015, 02:48:33 AM: I just sold something to a charity, top dollar

:/
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Rufus on May 01, 2015, 07:45:05 AM: Are they 'legit', or just someone's tax avoidance scheme?
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: I'm a Puppy! on May 01, 2015, 02:54:28 PM: Quote from: JayDubya on May 01, 2015, 10:36:26 AM
Stuff is worth whatever people will pay or trade for it. /shrug
The PS4 is worth every penny
:neogaf
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 12:51:15 AM: Quote from: ToxicAdam on April 30, 2015, 01:23:52 PM
I'd feel worse working for a rent to own furniture company.
Quote from: Vularai on April 30, 2015, 04:02:02 PM
Check cashing is scummier than payday loans imo.
I've had people explain to me how they were actually getting one over on the companies doing these. Somehow.

Especially rent to own, have heard that from tons of people, especially buying TVs and shit like that.

"Why would they stay in business?" "Oh, other people who haven't figured it out."

Yeah, the people who haven't figured out that the big screen TV they just rented for a year they could have bought a better 40-ish inch new HDTV (this was back when big HDTV's were just becoming off the shelf week paycheck instead of year paycheck affordable) for six months into the rental.

Though now that I think about it, the furniture is even better. The company buys it once, I assume at below retail cost, then rents it multiple times probably before finally selling it at way above market value. Knew people who were "renting-to-own" (aka never own) sofas and stuff and then were going to just "rent-to-own" new ones when they swapped apartments so the the company would take away the old ones and move in the new ones for them.

It's like those car loan upgrades with all the fine print where you can't like get new tires from anywhere but the dealership, etc. :lol

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Suffering the results of the unseen?
(http://i.minus.com/jvb6LEyIaSBeR.png)
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Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Kara on May 02, 2015, 01:08:52 AM: I can't count the number of times I've seen a check casher rejected an NSF check, then cash both the replacement and the original check that was NSF (while pocketing one of the checks). I mean I know their function is to cash checks but come on... :lol

Also imo they wouldn't be as prevalent if the banking sector wasn't made to do "national security" work and comprehensive low income banking was a thing.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 01:19:22 AM: obligatory statement about how fucked up all the interest rates in everything are and how they encourage "profits" that simply shouldn't exist, especially for large corporations who are friendly with the state
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 01:21:28 AM: One thing I don't get so much about payday loans and check cashing (other than all the obvious reasons I know) is that banks/credit unions are practically giving away checking accounts these days. They actually eliminated the minimum fund balance from mine two months ago and I was like wtf since it had previously only been $5 after slowly being lowered over the years.

Plus you earn like 26 cents a year on interest! Sell a few trading cards and that's a Steam or six game baby.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Kara on May 02, 2015, 01:30:59 AM: Credit unions have various member requirements, I only know of one here that let's you join just for being a resident of OC. They also have pretty poor reach; the one I belong to is old and large and its reach is still unimpressive.

I'd like to read a study on people who don't bank who aren't undocumented workers, I feel like something as basic as being exposed to banking at a young age would have a strong correlation. (Jewish stereotype #3686: I had my first bank account before I had my first bike. :snoop)
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 01:37:10 AM: Yeah, that's true. I had a semi-friend moving from Greece to California and I managed to find I think exactly one credit union that had open membership that had branches near where he was moving to.

At least around here a lot of the universities are setting up or partnering with Credit Unions with wide memberships, I assume to get around some Federal Loan laws. So I'm really torn about it.

My credit union was originally the one for the STATE employees, but it's merged like ten times and now it's open to anyone. The worst was the period it was named NuUnion though. *shudders*
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Mandark on May 02, 2015, 01:39:57 AM: Quote from: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 01:21:28 AM
One thing I don't get so much about payday loans and check cashing (other than all the obvious reasons I know) is that banks/credit unions are practically giving away checking accounts these days. They actually eliminated the minimum fund balance from mine two months ago and I was like wtf since it had previously only been $5 after slowly being lowered over the years.

lol inscrutable poors
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 01:50:28 AM: I thought there's been evidence that the poor by and large don't make up the majority of the customer base, it's middle class who are rolling over and over loans because unlike the poor, their money management skills didn't used to be needed. The consistently poor have actually transitioned to much better alternative financial methods because they realize it's a bad deal.

Quote
The most surprising increase came when the Urban Institute broke down use of products like payday loans by income. The poorest Americans, those who make $15,000 or less a year, actually scaled back their use even as wealthier people — those who conventional wisdom would assume had access to banks and credit cards — turned to alternative financial products in higher numbers. Among households with incomes between $50,000 and $75,000, the number went up by about a percentage point; for households earning over $75,000, the jump was two percentage points.
Quote
According to several academic and industry studies done since 2002, when Virginia first permitted payday lending, the average client is a high school graduate with a job and an average income of $40,000 a year. That still is the case today.

"The product exists because consumers like it," Fulmer, of Advance America, said. "There's nobody out there meeting this need with a less expensive product."

...

Jay Speer, executive director of the Virginia Poverty Law Center, an outspoken opponent of payday loans, said he was surprised at The Pilot's findings.

"It's almost sadder that they're hitting the middle-income folks," he said.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Mandark on May 02, 2015, 02:15:45 AM: From the report (http://www.urban.org/sites/default/files/alfresco/publication-pdfs/412868-The-Rising-Use-of-Nonbank-Credit-among-U-S-Households---.PDF) that you're quoting over half the users are under $30k annual household income, as of 2011.

The Great Recession might have sent more (formerly?) middle-class folks scrambling to get non-bank loans, but this is still an industry that targets low income customers. All you need to confirm that is look around and see where they set up shop.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 02:25:12 AM: The pre-recession Virginia article (http://hamptonroads.com/2008/01/who-uses-payday-loans-not-who-you-might-think#) included a map to show the spread out into higher income areas:
(http://i.imgur.com/W0c7Vtn.gif)

I'm not disagreeing with your valid criticisms of my original statements which is why I liked the posts. I just wanted to extend to how the customer base is changing and these reports aren't the only ones I've seen that the consistently poor have largely figured out the con and are dropping out from usage while those who are used to rolling over loans endlessly have moved in as a more dominant customer base. I'm sure the poor, especially the inconsistently poor will always be a decent chunk of it though.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Kara on May 02, 2015, 02:31:45 AM: iirc single women are a large portion of those who make use of them.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: benjipwns on May 02, 2015, 02:32:26 AM: Quote from: Vularai on May 02, 2015, 02:31:45 AM
iirc single women are a large portion of those who make use of them.
And they want to be in charge of our gaming industry.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Mandark on May 02, 2015, 06:50:08 PM: Yeah, there's definitely a good chunk of the population that would be considered middle- or working-class just looking at their income for a particular year, but with less financial stability than we'd normally associate with those labels. Piggybacking a bit on what Kara said, I'd love to see how use correlates not just with current income, but with parents' and grandparents' income/wealth (which I realize is wildly impractical, but still).

Also, it's funny that they ran that graphic to show payday loans branching out to the middle classes, but I mostly think "yeah, of course there's a cluster around Portsmouth/Norfolk. Probably one in Richmond too."
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Human Snorenado on May 02, 2015, 07:07:03 PM: I'm continually dumbfounded that people get suckered into payday lenders and rent to own places. My dad used to rent furniture and shit in the 80's/early 90's from those places. I thought he got smarter, but he and my step-mom just took a stupid plan that AT&T offers letting you "own" a new phone and get it ahead of your upgrade by paying like $20/month over two years. Just do the math... if you waited another 3-4 months you could have gotten your regularly scheduled upgrade without being in hock to these idiots for two years.

:larry
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Kara on May 02, 2015, 07:57:28 PM: I know title loans are back in fashion, but the pawn shop was the traditional source of low income credit since the middle ages and really these days people rarely have anything that's worth pawning--electronics are a wretched store of value. The demand is still there but the realistic options have shrunk, hence the payday loan.
Title: Re: Profiting on misfortune
Post by: Mr Gilhaney on May 02, 2015, 11:06:56 PM: Generally against it, but when betting companies offers me to bet on the Pistorius trial and such, then I need to ok, it's a deep rooted urge in me to bet and I can't control it. No matter if it's about robot legged murderers.