THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 04:15:42 PM

Title: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 04:15:42 PM
Gunshots in Paris and two explosions heard from the stadium where France and Germany are playing a friendly football match.

Well shit.

Edit: people killed at a restaurant I know a bit. Fuck.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 13, 2015, 04:29:19 PM
Looks like it might be a coordinated attack on multiple targets according to Twitter activity (nothing confirmed so far.)
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 04:34:20 PM
Looks like it might be a coordinated attack on multiple targets according to Twitter activity (nothing confirmed so far.)

Might be, piecing first reports from French newspaper.
People killed at two of three separate locations (all relatively close, so there's a pattern). Explosions reported near the stadium but also near a famous concert hall (where one of the shootings occured). EDIT : 18 killed for certain.
A pair of gunmen (several ?), probably with assault rifles. EDIT : Probably in a car, moving from places to places.
Quite a bit of police sirens right now by my windows.
President apparently exfiltred from stadium by security detachment.

Shit occured in places I know.  :-\
Will totally not help the toxic political climate here. Expect the far right to do very well in the next elections, probably the presidential one.  >:(

EDIT : Reports of gunfire in more places.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 13, 2015, 04:39:35 PM
Stay safe VomKriege.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 04:43:25 PM
Stay safe VomKriege.

Thanks, I'm at home so no big worries.
Pretty shook up nonetheless to be honest.
I already heard the assault on the Kosher supermarket from my desk. Unfortunately there's not a lot you can do to prevent attacks like these, and they will probably keep happening for many years to come.

EDIT : Hostage situation reported at concert hall Bataclan. Maybe up to 5 shooters.

All the rage from Mumbai and Moscow, now at your doorstep  :-\
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 13, 2015, 04:51:38 PM
There's a report that the restaurant attack happened from people sitting at tables there who stood up, put on masks, and started shooting.

Also 60 people being held at the concert hall.

Fox News now reporting bombings were suicide bombers

Edit: Attack at concert hall was an Eagles of Death Metal show
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 05:00:52 PM
I doesn't see any reports about people posing as clients or suicide bombers here. Please note the french media is a bit in a panic to cover this so we will probably be get many conflicting informations and international outlets are probably working from even worse sources.

Hostage situation at the Bataclan seems unfortunately very real. Large police perimeter there and the RAID (French SWAT) has arrived there. The stadium may be partially or totally closed and the audience seems to be staying on the pitch.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 13, 2015, 05:21:27 PM
That's interesting to know. Fox News seems in a rush to broadcast anything they hear.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brob on November 13, 2015, 05:27:35 PM
That's interesting to know. Fox News seems in a rush to broadcast anything they hear.

(http://i.imgur.com/XhRFv6Q.jpg)

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 05:27:44 PM
Sadly it's impossible to dispel so far any report, even the most ludicrous. Guns have been fired apparently along the way by the motorized killers (drive by shootings one or two streets below already reported sites). I see reports of gunfire in Les Halles (not the same zone than the first shootings). If it's an Radical Islamic attack and they wanted to strike a big publicity hit, one cannot dismissed they would try to use several shooting team to induce as much panic during all night or even in the following day.

With the Climate Summit coming, I expect the city to be put under serious lockdown for the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 05:42:23 PM
People inside the Bataclan urging on social media for an assault, shooters killing "everyone".
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Steve Contra on November 13, 2015, 05:49:36 PM
Fuck me, my friend's restaurant is right by one of the shootings.  They shot out his windows but everyone inside was safe, but he's saying there's bodies all over the street.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Boogie on November 13, 2015, 05:51:48 PM
People inside the Bataclan urging on social media for an assault, shooters killing "everyone".

Fucking hell.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 05:56:58 PM
People inside the Bataclan urging on social media for an assault, shooters killing "everyone".

Fucking hell.

Sorry, I'm not thinking perfectly clear. It was one person and of course it is hard to vouch for authenticity and accuracy.

Fuck me, my friend's restaurant is right by one of the shootings.  They shot out his windows but everyone inside was safe, but he's saying there's bodies all over the street.

All my toughts go to him (and you). This disgusting shit have tainted the streets I grew up in and where I still roam daily.

President say all French borders closed. Police assault still underway at Paris in one unspecified place (Bataclan probably).
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Boogie on November 13, 2015, 06:11:32 PM


Sorry, I'm not thinking perfectly clear. It was one person and of course it is hard to vouch for authenticity and accuracy.


Dude, you don't have to apologize for anything right now.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: chronovore on November 13, 2015, 06:14:58 PM
Hang in there, VomKriege. Post when you can.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 06:26:11 PM
Of course, but I wouldn't want to spread misinformation. I'm safe where I am. Shit is probably FUBAR as it is.
It is pretty harrowing to be there at this fucking keyboard, powerless.

One of the stadium bomb may have been a suicide bomber.
Choppers above my place now, probably security forces.
Schools closed tomorrow in all Paris region.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brawndolicious on November 13, 2015, 06:31:26 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995227/Paris-shooting-Many-feared-dead-live.html

Supposedly one of the terrorists at the bataclan said this was for Syria. I wonder if this is part of an ISIS backlash against all the countries involved in the Syrian civil war along with the Ankara mosque bombing and the Russian jet crash but that's just my own stupid speculation.

It would help to avoid news for a couple days until the perpetrators are caught VomKriege.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 06:38:01 PM
Sure. Life will go on, because it always does. Will probably be less fixated tomorrow. Right now under this terrible morbid fascination for news... Can't sleep anyway.

Probably ISIS, could also be a Sahel related group. France is a very active military country overseas still, even though it is often understated even in national politics (Fucking up Africa and the Lebanon coast is what we do, you know).
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 13, 2015, 06:41:31 PM
I know you are atm, but stay safe VK. Best to you and your friends and family.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 06:43:09 PM
Fucking BFM TV (24h news channel) being ordered to blackout the assault on their channel not to compromise the operation. Again. They already did that shit for the Charlie shootings and the Merah one.  ::)
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Great Rumbler on November 13, 2015, 07:06:27 PM
This is kind of the worst fear I had about the evolution of terrorism in the West. Big operations like 9/11 are impressive, but if you don't live in NYC or work in a skyscraper, it doesn't really affect your ability to continue with your daily life. And they take years and years of planning, making it more likely to be discovered before it can be carried out. But multiple simultaneous assaults by two or three armed people on soft targets [cafes, concert halls, stadiums, ect.] where large groups of people congregate is going to have a serious impact on the entire city of Paris and it's going to be a long while before people feel truly safe just going about their lives.

Thoughts and prayers to everybody in Paris. Stay safe.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 07:13:42 PM
Probable very heavy casualties at the Bataclan.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Boogie on November 13, 2015, 07:17:25 PM
This is kind of the worst fear I had about the evolution of terrorism in the West. Big operations like 9/11 are impressive, but if you don't live in NYC or work in a skyscraper, it doesn't really affect your ability to continue with your daily life. And they take years and years of planning, making it more likely to be discovered before it can be carried out. But multiple simultaneous assaults by two or three armed people on soft targets [cafes, concert halls, stadiums, ect.] where large groups of people congregate is going to have a serious impact on the entire city of Paris and it's going to be a long while before people feel truly safe just going about their lives.

Thoughts and prayers to everybody in Paris. Stay safe.

Yup.  Speaking from a law enforcement perspective, what we on occasion discuss at coffee break, is that it's really a minor miracle that this style of attack attack doesn't happen more often, considering how simple it would be to pull off, given a few like-minded associates, access to firearms, and even a basic conception of operational security.

When I think back to the Ottawa attack from a year ago, where the lone gunman was able to get inside our freakin' Parliament buildings, I can only imagine how much worse it could have been if he A) wasn't such a fuckup, and B) had 3 friends who wanted to join in.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: BrokenVerses on November 13, 2015, 07:18:47 PM
Probable very heavy casualties at the Bataclan.

Police are saying 100 dead there now.

https://twitter.com/afpfr/status/665321243889893376
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Boogie on November 13, 2015, 07:23:34 PM
Probable very heavy casualties at the Bataclan.

Police are saying 100 dead there now.

https://twitter.com/afpfr/status/665321243889893376

Yeah.  I think that number is only going to climb higher as the night goes on.  :(
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 13, 2015, 07:30:06 PM
This is awful.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 07:39:45 PM
The Bataclan can hold 1500 people so... yeah.
Also a fire in the Calais "jungle". The "jungle" is an hotbed of immigrants trying to get to the UK, a sad situation for many years (Former President Sarkozy closed the retention center with fanfare... But the refugees themselves were never relocated. What a fucking twat.). I hope this is not arson, situation is already gutwrenching as it is, don't need fucking xenophobes on top of that.

Thank you to accomodate my ramblings. This was pretty much the only outlet I had to vent. I treated myself to a Black Bottle glass just now. Let me reciprocate my thoughts to any other Boreans who might be in France or have acquaintances here. Would like to extend that to all of those that has to suffer this ideological scourge, Beyrouth and anywhere else.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: mormapope on November 13, 2015, 07:40:50 PM
Apparently that fire is old news/someone looking to stir shit up on social media.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: StealthFan on November 13, 2015, 07:48:59 PM
Religion of peace.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 13, 2015, 08:01:11 PM
Stay safe Paris-Bore. RIP to victims.

I agree that these types of "smaller" style terrorist attacks seem far easier to plan and execute than another grand 911 style attack. In a sense we already see it to an extent, on a near monthly basis with these mass public shootings.
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Abrahamic religion :piss2
[close]
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 13, 2015, 08:10:55 PM
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/europe/france/11995227/Paris-shooting-Many-feared-dead-live.html

Supposedly one of the terrorists at the bataclan said this was for Syria.

Syria now or Syria 1923?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 13, 2015, 08:35:18 PM
Things seems to have cooled down, at last. Will probably call it a night.

Just as an aside : French President Francois Hollande has activated the exceptional powers as per Article 16 of our Constitution. Probably expect a hunt for possible perps at large in the following days. Would not be surprised to see the military participation against ISIS to be ramped up in the coming weeks.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 13, 2015, 08:56:27 PM
I feel sick. I feel like throwing up and crying and drinking until I can't think, but all I can do is watch my TV with a steadily more-horrified expression.

My thoughts are with you, France.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: qq more on November 13, 2015, 09:03:11 PM
My stomach felt sick when I heard the death toll from the hostage situation itself. Horrible.

Genuinely sad about all of this. Paris was one of the cities I've always want to visit (due to heritage). No one deserves this. RIP to all of the victims and I pray for everyone affected from all of these tragedies that occurred today.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 13, 2015, 09:16:08 PM
I almost went this summer and was planning on going next summer. Now I don't know. :-\ I'm such a fucking coward.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Boogie on November 13, 2015, 09:27:10 PM
I almost went this summer and was planning on going next summer. Now I don't know. :-\ I'm such a fucking coward.

Don't you fucking dare change your plans according to this attack.

You're from Boston, right?  Did the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing stop you from spending time in the city afterwards?  No?  Then don't you treat this any differently. :punch
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brawndolicious on November 13, 2015, 09:28:35 PM
The one time I went to France was a year after the Paris riots and I found some Parisians would act either super friendly or dismissive (I'm assuming because I'm middle-eastern). To be honest, I would actually like to visit again now.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Atramental on November 13, 2015, 09:48:58 PM
Stay safe VK and other borians in Paris. :-\
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 13, 2015, 09:57:22 PM
I almost went this summer and was planning on going next summer. Now I don't know. :-\ I'm such a fucking coward.

Don't you fucking dare change your plans according to this attack.

You're from Boston, right?  Did the 2013 Boston Marathon bombing stop you from spending time in the city afterwards?  No?  Then don't you treat this any differently. :punch

Yeah, you're absolutely right. On the other hand I felt a sense of solidarity with Boston by living here. Almost like, "if I die because I live here than so be it." It's hard to have that feeling when traveling, as much as I sympathize with the French people (see most of my conversations here with Kara.) I'm second-guessing myself and saying "maybe I should go somewhere safer..."

Like I said, coward and all that. I'll probably reevaluate in February or March.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: pilonv1 on November 13, 2015, 10:15:11 PM
I was there on this day last year, walked everywhere and never felt unsafe anywhere. Really tragic news :(
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on November 13, 2015, 10:23:51 PM
This is fucking me up right now. A lot of scales will have been tipped a certain way today. Not looking forward to the next couple of years.

I feel like (re-)learning French.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 13, 2015, 10:31:49 PM
Are you André Masséna or are you the Marquis de Bouillé, Andy-kun? SMGDH, allez with you.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 13, 2015, 10:45:17 PM
Are you André Masséna or are you the Marquis de Bouillé, Andy-kun? SMGDH, allez with you.

Allez yourself, fuckstain.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 13, 2015, 10:52:14 PM
I'm more of a shitstain imo.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 13, 2015, 11:04:18 PM
This is fucking me up right now. A lot of scales will have been tipped a certain way today. Not looking forward to the next couple of years.

I feel like (re-)learning French.

This is basically why I think these things don't happen more often. One mass casualty attack in a strong Western country and those Westerners are ready to throw out their hard fought foundational ideals of liberty like they are nothing. Governments move right, the populous turns against you, and military/police presence ramps up so much soft targets start disappearing—leaving you with nowhere to go and no more momentum.

Look at the Battle of Algiers: a few bombings at Western cafes and suddenly whole neighborhoods are essentially turned into free fire zones with the culmination being the local FLN leader surrounded in the rubble of his neighborhood and blowing himself up in a closet.

On a grand scale, I don't think these types of attacks are very helpful for the cause of the belligerents (as opposed to the more meticulously planned 9/11 style attacks) and I believe they (AQ/ISIS proper) understand that.

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: suppadoopa on November 13, 2015, 11:41:33 PM
Stay strong Paris
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 14, 2015, 01:06:31 AM
Goddamn it. How long are are we, as the strongest nation on the plant, going to let this go on?

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 14, 2015, 01:30:14 AM
I mean I'm not trying to sound imperialist at all. But this shit has gotta stop.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 14, 2015, 01:36:48 AM
If I met this writer in person he would no longer have teeth.

http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427064/paris-terror-attacks-long-war-continues (http://www.nationalreview.com/article/427064/paris-terror-attacks-long-war-continues)

Quote
“Allahu Akbar!” cried the jihadists as they killed innocent after French innocent. The commentators told us it means “God is great.” But it doesn’t. It means “Allah is greater!” It is a comparative, a cry of combative aggression: “Our God is mightier than yours.”

A comparative compares two things, a superlative compares one thing to everything. If you want to decry the existential foreign menace, learn how to speak English.

E: Also it's greatest, not greater. Don't take up Arabic translation either.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: benjipwns on November 14, 2015, 02:10:33 AM
I find it very interesting that the mainstream media refuses to come out and admit exactly what all of these attackers had in common. Especially in light of all the recent campus protests touching on similar themes.

They were in France.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 14, 2015, 02:26:43 AM
Uuuh I think we know Benji

Great job of making Europe even more anti muslim goatfuckers

Smh, I was at a pro refugee protest a while back, good luck getting any support now to help these people in neef
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 14, 2015, 03:49:16 AM
Thoroughly drunk now. Reality is but a waking nightmare.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 14, 2015, 04:19:48 AM
I mean I'm not trying to sound imperialist at all. But this shit has gotta stop.

Don't fool yourselves, we are looking forward to 20+ years of this shit, if not more. Regardless of successfully disbanding the Islamic State (although I think this will have to be done for long term prospects). It's a very rough opinion but as I said it is pretty much our Cold War equivalent.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: T-Short on November 14, 2015, 06:30:52 AM
Goddamn it. How long are are we, as the strongest nation on the plant, going to let this go on?

Keep bombing weddings and hospitals, I'm sure their recruiting ranks will thin out eventually  :doge
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 14, 2015, 07:15:01 AM
Also to consider : Dismantling the IS... then what ? Irak as an entity is probably deader than disco. Syria and Lebanon national identity is to be shaky. Last I heard Libya was not doing so great. This shit is the new Balkans.

War is a continuation of politics, etc... No point going in without at least a rough outline of what entities we are supposed to prop up to try to keep things checked.

Goddamn it. How long are are we, as the strongest nation on the plant, going to let this go on?

Keep bombing weddings and hospitals, I'm sure their recruiting ranks will thin out eventually  :doge

Don't want to be apologetic for those screw ups or a state of permanent war without any borders, but I think it would be a bit foolish to dismiss the efficiency of armed action. War can be a totally apt way of destroying or at the very least suppressing hostile groups long enough to work some sort of political solution. There is no automatic correlation and automatism between repression and enemy recruitment, even if of course you must strategize to minimize that factor. Western military doctrine may struggle with "irregular warfare" but the truth is that some counter insurgencies (Western led or not) did in fact succeed.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 14, 2015, 07:55:00 AM
Anyway was en route to donate blood, but no need since they are already full. Will go in a few days.

A bit of tension at my baker, a client's wife made a fuss because the female cashier (tunisian) made a joke about shaving his beard earlier.

Otherwise streets looked normal. A tad quiet... Public parks and schools closed though, as a reminder.

Edit: According to blood donation guidelines, gays are in effect banned from it. Apparently common in many western countries. What the fuck is this shit.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: T-Short on November 14, 2015, 08:25:36 AM
Edit: According to blood donation guidelines, gays are in effect banned from it. Apparently common in many western countries. What the fuck is this shit.

Yeah, the French law is lifetime ban if you've had man-on-man sexual relations, right? The EU court has declared that this is a-ok for member states too http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-04/cp150046en.pdf (http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-04/cp150046en.pdf)
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 14, 2015, 08:33:00 AM
Edit: According to blood donation guidelines, gays are in effect banned from it. Apparently common in many western countries. What the fuck is this shit.

Yeah, the French law is lifetime ban if you've had man-on-man sexual relations, right? The EU court has declared that this is a-ok for member states too http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-04/cp150046en.pdf (http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-04/cp150046en.pdf)

Not sure of the exact law, but the FAQ mentioned a total impossibility. At the very least way more stringent conditions making it close to impossible.

A guy on GAF pointed out that there was some real medical statistics to back that decision. I guess ultimately, normalized (instead of clandestine or fringe) gay relationships will dull most of that statistical risk. Still sounds a bit fucked up on the face of it.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 14, 2015, 09:11:45 AM
Edit: According to blood donation guidelines, gays are in effect banned from it. Apparently common in many western countries. What the fuck is this shit.

Yeah, the French law is lifetime ban if you've had man-on-man sexual relations, right? The EU court has declared that this is a-ok for member states too http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-04/cp150046en.pdf (http://curia.europa.eu/jcms/upload/docs/application/pdf/2015-04/cp150046en.pdf)

Not sure of the exact law, but the FAQ mentioned a total impossibility. At the very least way more stringent conditions making it close to impossible.

A guy on GAF pointed out that there was some real medical statistics to back that decision. I guess ultimately, normalized (instead of clandestine or fringe) gay relationships will dull most of that statistical risk. Still sounds a bit fucked up on the face of it.


Canada does this too.  Started during the 80's Aids scare however gay men still have a huge statistical chance of having a an STD over non-gays. 
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 14, 2015, 09:24:24 AM
That fucking gaf thread


Get this blood drive bullshit the fuck out of these threads. Now is not the time to be arguing for gay rights, Jesus Christ, a lot of people died for a fictional God today, have some respect.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 14, 2015, 09:55:37 AM
That fucking gaf thread


Get this blood drive bullshit the fuck out of these threads. Now is not the time to be arguing for gay rights, Jesus Christ, a lot of people died for a fictional God today, have some respect.

Over a dozen people have been gunned down at a place me and my mother used to hang out, 300m at most from the place I lived most of my life in. My brother work in close proximity to the Bataclan, a concert hall my SO did went to several times. A lot of my acquaintances might have been there (luckily so far everyone seemed to have been safe and sound yesterday). Sorry to be so crass about it, because I do count my blessings of being born in what is still -despite the tragedy- one of the less shitty places on this planet... but I think I am entitled to go on a tangent if I feel like it. Especially in relation to a blood drive linked to helping the medical services cope with the treatement of those wounded in the attacks.
 :yeshrug

I'll happily discuss anything related attacks with you if you wish so. As you may have seen, I make no bones about the military response to that threat.

EDIT : I am sincerely thankful that you care. Real talk.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 14, 2015, 10:25:42 AM
Don't want to be apologetic for those screw ups or a state of permanent war without any borders, but I think it would be a bit foolish to dismiss the efficiency of armed action. War can be a totally apt way of destroying or at the very least suppressing hostile groups long enough to work some sort of political solution. There is no automatic correlation and automatism between repression and enemy recruitment, even if of course you must strategize to minimize that factor. Western military doctrine may struggle with "irregular warfare" but the truth is that some counter insurgencies (Western led or not) did in fact succeed.

It is very difficult to succeed with an enemy centric (military focused) counter insurgency doctrine unless you act swiftly at the start of hostilities. British Army Colonel C.E. Callwall aptly wrote in his 1896 "Small Wars," that "it is an established canon of the art of war that seizure of the initiative at the outset and its maintenance thenceforward, is one of the best assured means of commanding success." This has proved as true in the insurgencies since WW2 as it was in the 19th century.

The success rate of military action becomes much less likely to succeed once the insurgency has infiltrated the political structure. Unfortunately, that mark has already been missed in Somalia, Iraq, Afghanistan, Syria, Mali, and now likely Libya and the Sinai. Ironically, the more military the West uses, the more failed states are created, and the better the opportunity for these insurgencies to gain political dominance. As you said, this is a borderless, multinational insurgency. The best soldiers in the world couldn't sort this out because killing people obviously isn't enough and frequently creates more problems as Hyoushi mentioned.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 14, 2015, 10:57:58 AM
Maybe we should take the analysis to the inter-pol thread and leave the current events stuff for this one.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 14, 2015, 11:00:25 AM
Maybe we should just take back North Africa instead and govern it again
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brawndolicious on November 14, 2015, 11:07:19 AM
It's important to keep in mind that this isn't ISIS being particularly brutal. They're just stepping up their attack on Western targets to shock those governments and cause a reaction. A couple years after the invasion of Afghanistan, Dick Cheney was saying that the Taliban was permanently crippled now that over a quarter of their fighters were dead which makes the cost in lives for America worth it. But look at how crippled the Taliban is today.

ISIS may be thinking that the only way to get foreign countries to stop their involvement is by getting a chance to kill soldiers on the ground until France, Russia, etc give up forever in 5 years thinking they've hit ISIS hard enough to permanently cripple it. I think the best thing to do is to just step up air strikes and arming allies in the region and accept that concerts and other large targets in the West are going to need to be guarded by soldiers.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Shadow Mod on November 14, 2015, 11:12:48 AM
You never really cripple the consistently victimized populations. Destabilize the shit out of regions all people have left is anger and desire for retribution.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 14, 2015, 11:29:38 AM
I am only an amateur of military theory, mind, and it is obvious military should just be a mean to a political end... And the "political end" has been the lacking part in Afghanistan, Irak and Libya and consisted in pie-in-the-sky dream of nation building and propping up guys which never had the means to insure what we expected them to do. Not that I want to be a monday morning general : those failures happened because we have to compose with the reality of what is there and none of that will ever be a perfect fit.

However I would say that ISIS assuming the form of a state may make a good case for increased military action (...but that's what we are doing yet). At the very least, it would deny them some of the medium to heavy ordinance, funding and political traction. I fear that if allowed to grow, this brand of Radical Islamism may become a very grave threat (short of "existential"), and I suspect we would be better off with a decade long low level warfare than dealing with a collection of radical theocracies*. But the short term political implication of that is playing ball with Russia, Kurds, Iran and/or Bachar el Assad (Asshole must be gleeful as of now) which comes with its own massive set of problems as far as culling the impetus between all those terrorist Sunni movements.

Hell man, if I had a solution, I would have run for elections.

* The counterpoint to that is that to some extent Iran has normalized its status as a nation-state. Some reporters who have met ISIS leaders says that some of them have hinted at that. Have a hard time feeling comfortable with the idea.

EDIT : Would maybe more fitting in the politics thread indeed. Will further respond there.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Shadow Mod on November 14, 2015, 11:33:21 AM
I have no solutions but I think a lot of people could do well to revisit World War I and its aftermath.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brob on November 14, 2015, 11:40:52 AM
Not sure of the exact law, but the FAQ mentioned a total impossibility. At the very least way more stringent conditions making it close to impossible.

A guy on GAF pointed out that there was some real medical statistics to back that decision. I guess ultimately, normalized (instead of clandestine or fringe) gay relationships will dull most of that statistical risk. Still sounds a bit fucked up on the face of it.

the medical statistics used to back up the ban on gay blood is the revelation during the HIV epidemic that straights could get it too. Hospitals aren't really into the idea of testing blood when they can just ban various "at risk" groups. HIV probably isn't terribly common in parisian gays these days, but I suppose they think too many at risk exclusions is preferable to too few.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 14, 2015, 01:09:00 PM
From NYT:

Quote
Seven of the Paris attackers died in suicide bombings, and an eighth was shot by police. Officials say accomplices may still be at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-attacks-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Seven died in suicide bombings? Where were these bombings?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 14, 2015, 01:10:04 PM
What's the chance that France brings NATO into Syria for this?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Shadow Mod on November 14, 2015, 01:10:22 PM
From NYT:

Quote
Seven of the Paris attackers died in suicide bombings, and an eighth was shot by police. Officials say accomplices may still be at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-attacks-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Seven died in suicide bombings? Where were these bombings?

Thought a couple were outside the football stadium, you can even hear the booms in the game feed.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 14, 2015, 01:13:50 PM
From NYT:

Quote
Seven of the Paris attackers died in suicide bombings, and an eighth was shot by police. Officials say accomplices may still be at large.

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/11/14/world/europe/paris-attacks-what-we-know-and-dont-know.html

Seven died in suicide bombings? Where were these bombings?

Thought a couple were outside the football stadium, you can even hear the booms in the game feed.

Right, those are the two that have been reported. That leaves more bombings that I haven't heard about.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on November 14, 2015, 01:16:53 PM
I think the shooters in the Bataclan blew themselves up after they were done shooting.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 14, 2015, 01:20:39 PM
What's the chance that France brings NATO into Syria for this?

I think that's the big question right now. Hollande's speech seemed to be a precursor to invoking Article 5. "Act of war [...] jihadist army [...] organized from abroad," etc. The US did after 9/11 resulting in the 13 year commitment of ISAF in Afghanistan.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 14, 2015, 01:29:01 PM
Two suicide bombings at the SDF and one at a McDonalds according to this WSJ article. One was stopped from entering stadium by security:

http://www.wsj.com/articles/attacker-tried-to-enter-paris-stadium-but-was-turned-away-1447520571
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 14, 2015, 01:32:50 PM
(http://i.imgur.com/FqUuDvg.png)

More updated info here:

https://twitter.com/jackyaljaz
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 14, 2015, 01:43:28 PM
What's the chance that France brings NATO into Syria for this?

I think that's the big question right now. Hollande's speech seemed to be a precursor to invoking Article 5. "Act of war [...] jihadist army [...] organized from abroad," etc. The US did after 9/11 resulting in the 13 year commitment of ISAF in Afghanistan.
Ya that's what I was thinking too.  And can we go into Syria without also going into Iraq?  Also with Russia, Syria and NATO would be pretty scary.   Sounds like another shitty decade a head of us. 

This is a good timeline, since I was 13 when 9/11 happened and don't remember much of the important bits

http://www.nato.int/cps/en/natolive/events_77648.htm
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Steve Contra on November 14, 2015, 02:51:56 PM
A friend of a friend was killed at Le Bataclan.  Not a happy morning.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: qq more on November 14, 2015, 05:19:31 PM
A friend of a friend was killed at Le Bataclan.  Not a happy morning.
Yikes, sorry to hear that for your friend. :(
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 14, 2015, 05:56:41 PM
Sorry to hear that Steve.  :(
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Stoney Mason on November 14, 2015, 06:44:35 PM
Not to pit one tragedy against another tragedy but for what its worth there were also bombings in Beirut yesterday.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/11/lets-pray-for-beirut-the-same-way-were-praying-for-paris/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34805466
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: nudemacusers on November 14, 2015, 08:34:48 PM
Sorry to hear that, Steve. French-bore hang in there.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: chronovore on November 14, 2015, 10:26:12 PM
Not to pit one tragedy against another tragedy but for what its worth there were also bombings in Beirut yesterday.

http://www.elephantjournal.com/2015/11/lets-pray-for-beirut-the-same-way-were-praying-for-paris/
http://www.bbc.com/news/world-middle-east-34805466
Yeah, I saw that. Some of my more contrarian friends are posting Woe Unto the World because Paris is getting all the attention, but Beirut isn't being mentioned. I haven't figured out how to politely say, "Well, bombings in Paris are still an unusual event."

It is bullshit that Facebook turned on the Safety Check feature for Paris but not Beirut. Seems like they're still finding their footing there, as it was the first time the feature was used for a terrorist incident rather than natural disaster (http://www.csmonitor.com/World/Global-News/2015/1114/Paris-vs.-Beirut-Why-didn-t-Facebook-offer-Safety-Check-for-both-attacks).
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 15, 2015, 04:11:49 AM
A friend of a friend was killed at Le Bataclan.  Not a happy morning.

Sorry to hear that.

Otherwise, Belgium have arrested people in Saint-Jean Molenbeek, probably in relation to this... again. I spent a few days in a youth hostel there some years ago and I know it had a bad reputation but it didn't seem to be that bad.

I am a bit gutted for Beyrouth too. It is a bit ridiculous how raw of a deal they have over those issues for the last 40 years.

EDIT : There were reports from September 18th that French counter intelligence had arrested a man back from Syria which had plans for an attack against a yet unspecified concert.

http://www.lemonde.fr/police-justice/article/2015/09/18/arrestation-d-un-ex-djihadiste-qui-aurait-projete-des-attentats-contre-une-salle-de-concert_4762141_1653578.html

Maybe the same, maybe the sign of a few terrorist strike policy.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brob on November 15, 2015, 09:19:41 AM
on the misinformation front: http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/gamergate-photoshopped-a-canadian-sikh-man-to-make-him-seem?utm_term=.om0wZWOdv#.hcvzLgBME

 :nintendo
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: qq more on November 15, 2015, 12:03:38 PM
on the misinformation front: http://www.buzzfeed.com/ellievhall/gamergate-photoshopped-a-canadian-sikh-man-to-make-him-seem?utm_term=.om0wZWOdv#.hcvzLgBME

 :nintendo
Jesus Christ. GamerGate is fucking garbage.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 15, 2015, 12:52:43 PM
Rumors of shootings at the République gathering. Please be not true.

Edit: Apparently the crowd gathered is a bit jumpy and a few panic moves have occured in Les Halles and Place de la République (Rue Bichat as well where the first attack had taken place).

Rumors from news channels of shots heard maybe in rue Charlot (close to Place de la République as well) but thankfully nothing serious it seems.

Police have said no incident, just fireworks (Thanks, dumbfucks).
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 15, 2015, 01:09:11 PM
I am valuable, and rad.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 15, 2015, 02:40:57 PM
I am valuable, and rad.

And cute as gosh. :uguu
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 16, 2015, 06:16:05 AM
Beethoven third symphony on all radio channels now as a follow up to the minute of silence.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 16, 2015, 07:41:52 AM
I have to say, I got quite emotional when I heard the football fans where singing the anthem when leaving the stadium.

Such a beautiful anthem.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 16, 2015, 12:47:28 PM
Having a beer near the Bataclan. Lotsa cops, horrible traffic. Quite a lot of people at the vigils. Morale is good tho. Cheers !
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 01:27:39 PM
My fellow conservatives are really pissing me off. Here's a few things I feel like need to be said

"Let's just go bomb them back to the stone age"  Okay, but this is a lot like pouring gasoline down an ant hill. The minute you set it on fire the buggers will crawl out of 30 different holes you didn't know about.

"Let's BAN refugees, period"  This is EXACTLY what ISIL wants you to do, hence the fake passports. They want these people back home where they can hang them and put them in mass graves for violating the set way of life with their western standards.

"OMG we're doomed"  France will survive. Israel has survived. We survived. Don't let these people change your way of life or they win.

So what do we do AiA?

We do what we should have done 30 years ago. Single out the Saudi's who are funding these operations (and trust me, it's saudi's) and cut their financial head off. Eliminate their oil sales and oil fields, and combat their idiocy with education. That's about all we can do.

Oh outside of ***gasp actively partnering with Iran (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) but we can never let that happen....stupid
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 16, 2015, 01:33:57 PM
Gonna be fun in 15-20 years when demand for oil plummets and Saudi is left without a foot to stand on. :doge
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 01:34:49 PM
Gonna be fun in 15-20 years when demand for oil plummets and Saudi is left without a foot to stand on. :doge

:rejoice


Meanwhile the USA has what, 30 times the oil reserves of SA but continues to pretend like we ain't storing that shit for a rainy day?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 16, 2015, 01:38:52 PM
I don't support bringing refugees here but I largely agree with your post (not a conservative though).

We've bombed them to the stone age before - how did that work out? Ultimately this is not a conventional fight, so speaking about it in conventional terms makes no sense. Ultimately this fight is not ours, it belongs to ME allies. I'm fine with providing logistics and doing things our allies can't do (like certain airstrikes) but ultimately I want no major US intervention.

ISIS is losing territory, and has been for months. They are not winning. Dudes with machine guns and homemade bombs can literally kill a bunch of people in nearly every city in the world - it's a small scale attack with high casualty rates. It should not be taken as evidence ISIS is gaining strength or capabilities. Anyone demanding US ground troops over this or previous ISIS acts is an idiot.

We're not cutting off SA anytime soon breh. But I like the fact that we seem to be moving away from a purely antagonistic relationship with Iran. And becoming more energy independent also helps.

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 01:41:48 PM
Agreed, ground troops for what reason? You can't fight a coward. These people are cowards. Those who fight behind masks can win nothing.

Hasshassins sounds really cool, these ISIL idiots look up to them. They got their balls ripped out in the end. So will these people. We need based Khan style intelligence and logistics. I mean shit he did it all of 800 years ago and some change. History repeats itself.


Hopefully Anonymous does some real good here and gets some inside details as to their power structure and how they obtain funding. That would be very valuable intel....much more valuable that bombing Jihad Johnnie and then being told you missed  :snoop
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 16, 2015, 01:46:46 PM
I'm going to assume the CIA has more info than Anonymous could possibly obtain...but if they want to expose members n shit that's fine I guess.

We already know they're selling oil and they're probably selling military equipment too.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Mods Help on November 16, 2015, 01:48:51 PM
Glad you're safe, VK.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 01:49:04 PM
I'm going to assume the CIA has more info than Anonymous could possibly obtain...but if they want to expose members n shit that's fine I guess.

We already know they're selling oil and they're probably selling military equipment too.

We already know its the Saudi's backing them. We know who we THINK their leader is. Truth is though, we are very far behind. Iran has fucking offered to give us their intelligence and of course we just sneered at them and said something about Ron Reagan or something....sigh

Truth is Iran knows it's the Saudi's and we just want to keep closing our ears and eyes to the fact.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 16, 2015, 01:53:05 PM
My fellow conservatives are really pissing me off. Here's a few things I feel like need to be said

"Let's just go bomb them back to the stone age"  Okay, but this is a lot like pouring gasoline down an ant hill. The minute you set it on fire the buggers will crawl out of 30 different holes you didn't know about.

"Let's BAN refugees, period"  This is EXACTLY what ISIL wants you to do, hence the fake passports. They want these people back home where they can hang them and put them in mass graves for violating the set way of life with their western standards.

"OMG we're doomed"  France will survive. Israel has survived. We survived. Don't let these people change your way of life or they win.

So what do we do AiA?

We do what we should have done 30 years ago. Single out the Saudi's who are funding these operations (and trust me, it's saudi's) and cut their financial head off. Eliminate their oil sales and oil fields, and combat their idiocy with education. That's about all we can do.

Oh outside of ***gasp actively partnering with Iran (the enemy of my enemy is my friend) but we can never let that happen....stupid

How awesome would it be to have a response of a multi-billion green energy / oil independence program.  It would be a pretty big FU to both the Saudis and Russia.   
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Boogie on November 16, 2015, 01:54:30 PM

Hopefully Anonymous does some real good here and gets some inside details as to their power structure and how they obtain funding. That would be very valuable intel....much more valuable that bombing Jihad Johnnie and then being told you missed  :snoop

:lol. :lol. :lol

You're a funny man, AiA.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 01:56:00 PM

Hopefully Anonymous does some real good here and gets some inside details as to their power structure and how they obtain funding. That would be very valuable intel....much more valuable that bombing Jihad Johnnie and then being told you missed  :snoop

:lol. :lol. :lol

You're a funny man, AiA.

Oh trust me I know they'll end up dDos'ing some random arabic server In Syria and proclaiming a moral victory. Just wishful thinking.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Tasty on November 16, 2015, 02:11:55 PM
Didn't these guys declare war on Mexican cartels then pussied out because, surprise, those guys are fucking violent and insane and will protect their business by any means necessary?

From what I've seen ISIS can be just as brutal, so uhh, good luck with this one Anonymous. I'm sure this'll go fine and there won't be any consequences like with the cartels. ISIS are pushovers as we all know. :doge
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 16, 2015, 02:43:33 PM
Glad you're safe, VK.

Thanks, cheers.

I wouldn't get my hopes high of seeing Western powers throwing the Gulf monarchies under the bus (Qatar as well has been pouring a ton of money, especially in France.) because there's a lot of strategic interests (Suez is a fairly important route still) in all the wider region and we won't divorce from that. The truth is there's not a lot a savory partners to pick from. Turkey, Israel, Lebanon are probably those with the most compatible political system and they all have their fair share of issues (Lebanon is a bit of a non player, anyway). Jordan, if I am not mistaken, is a solid ally and one that have been the most forthcoming at putting money where its mouth is (That's to adress what Phoenix Dark said : Our partners down there like to talk the talk but they also love not being commited to anything too explicit and love to defer the work to the Western players despite all of the shiny toys we send them).

Long term I think the best way to improve the situation is to see a couple major regional powers shifting to something akin to a "liberal democracy". Egypt and Iran would be two I have in mind, but the recent events in both countries have been a huge letdown and we are not there yet. Things are equally gray further west : Tunisia is struggling as well with its transition from the Arab Spring. No one knows how Algeria (Second biggest defense budget in Africa) will turn out when the last of the FLN Old Guard dried fingers will finally let go of the levers.

Until then we are stuck with a democracy doing a bad impression of colonialism 50 years too late and a band of old rich aristocrats sucking up all of the wealth while pandering both to our interests and to one of the most retrograde ideologies in order to placate their populations and I really don't know if there's a way for us to undercut them while still getting what we need (or want, choose the word most situed to your political beliefs).
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 03:11:31 PM
Well now they have officially threatened Washington DC. Your move, Obama.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 03:17:09 PM
Rush Limbaugh "We don't want Iranian support. Iran wants an unstable region so they can forward their control of the area"

Are you fucking kidding me? How can you control a headless snake, Rush? What a fucking moron.

Edit: For those keeping score at home Iran is in this to get further lifts on our sanctions so they can rebuild their airlines and update their infrastructure as well as further their nuclear research.

Personally none of this bothers me. I don't think they'd be dumb enough to cross the nuclear line to weaponary. I say this considering they know we have satellites that can pick us a gnat's ass on a BMW going 50 mile per hour. And thy know we are more than capable of electronic surveillance as well.

Let's help them help us, n'est pas?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 03:24:12 PM
Well that and I'm sure we are a major player in the whole clandestine weapons trading  as well. In sure "Made is USA" is stamped all over nuclear capable hardware and technology.

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 16, 2015, 03:28:37 PM
Siemens technology was a big part of the Iranian nuclear program iirc from what I read about the Stuxnet scandal.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 16, 2015, 03:30:23 PM
I say this considering they know we have satellites that can pick us a gnat's ass on a BMW going 50 mile per hour. And thy know we are more than capable of electronic surveillance as well.


I know that was hyperbole, but this is actually physically impossible.  You can't have (high orbiting) satellites that can read license plates either.  This is a great read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_for_Future_Presidents
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 03:30:44 PM
Siemens technology was a big part of the Iranian nuclear program iirc from what I read about the Stuxnet scandal.
Siemens technology was a big part of the Iranian nuclear program iirc from what I read about the Stuxnet scandal.

Would make sense. They have manufacturing plants that require a higher security clearance than doing work at an airport.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 16, 2015, 03:31:55 PM
I say this considering they know we have satellites that can pick us a gnat's ass on a BMW going 50 mile per hour. And thy know we are more than capable of electronic surveillance as well.


I know that was hyperbole, but this is actually physically impossible.  You can't have (high orbiting) satellites that can read license plates either.  This is a great read https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Physics_for_Future_Presidents

I am aware. I was just addressing the fact they ain't assembling shit on Tuesday at lunch that ain't popping up in a red flagged "action now" email by the 3pm martini.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brob on November 16, 2015, 03:41:21 PM
Imagine if the US started pushing for MENWFZ rather than embroil themselves in panicked fever dreams about Iran. :spin
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brawndolicious on November 16, 2015, 04:56:00 PM
Sunnis are like 90% of Muslims and they're the ones ISIS is trying to get support from. While kurds and Shias are actually willing to fight hard against ISIS, that's probably only going to go on for as long as they threaten their borders/cities (read: no 10 year occupation). 

I also think having Iranian soldiers be an aggressive force that goes into mostly Sunni regions of Iraq and Syria to kick out the new caliphate will probably lead to an even uglier longterm result. The best solution would have been for moderate Sunni militias to destroy ISIS in return for greater political representation in Syria but that ship's sailed. Probably the only solution now is for Russia to directly prop up Assads army while the NATO countries do their own airstrikes and gather intelligence on how to cripple ISIS logistically. It is relatively easy for a modern military to get rid of ISIS for a few months but how do you maintain a stable state where ISIS used to be without some new radical militias popping up?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on November 16, 2015, 06:08:46 PM
With a spiffy new dictatorship in Iraq.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 17, 2015, 03:40:18 AM
Yeah you don't really. Short term harming their capabilities, reducing them to a state of roaming bands is probably the best we can do.

It's what happened in Mali. Preventing them from reaching mass.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 17, 2015, 05:38:45 AM
Well now they have officially threatened Washington DC. Your move, Obama.

In truth it doesn't change anything. USA is already on the list of targets, as most European major countries. France and French interests has been attacked by a variety of radical islamist groups for the last 20 years. It will not stop until they achieved their political goals (which even in their most minimalist form might be unacceptable to us, both regarding our involvement in those regions or the potential slaughter of apostates and any sort of religious or ethnic background not to their liking) and maybe not even then considering how that absolutist, dogmatic propaganda about "Crusaders" has been dripped on their base for many years now regardless of how much the leadership really believes it.

Current form of military action over there is likely the most that Western governements can afford either materially (though it could always be stepped up) or in relation to what the electorate is willing to support. Next step would require a much more robust political project and let's be frank, it probably doesn't exist in light of what followed up Iraq or Libya campaigns. We're buying time, to speak plainly : in itself it is a legitimate objective but it will only go so far.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 17, 2015, 05:49:19 AM
Maybe fighting fundamentalists is like fighting pests and weeds, it's just something you have to keep doing to keep them at bay, there is no winning.

Pulling them out at their roots is harder but will keep them away longer then just blowtorching the surface.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 17, 2015, 08:00:20 AM
(http://pbs.twimg.com/media/CT9BLZbWoAEG_Wf.jpg)

A shield used by BRI at the Bataclan. It helped 18 police officers evacuate 20 hostages. It was hit 27 times... Those things can beat a beating.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 17, 2015, 03:05:56 PM
All sorts of crazy rumors out of Hannover. Only certain thing is that the football game was canceled and stadium evacuated because of a threat deemed serious.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: qq more on November 17, 2015, 03:31:07 PM
All sorts of crazy rumors out of Hannover. Only certain thing is that the football game was canceled and stadium evacuated because of a threat deemed serious.
The police apparently found a car bomb disguised as a rescue vehicle for the stadium. Not sure if this is 100% confirmed though.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 17, 2015, 03:42:21 PM
Official press conference stated no devices and no arrests so far.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on November 17, 2015, 04:45:04 PM
And no information about anything, really. To not unsettle people. (Because that's how that works, ahem.) So, either they don't know much either, or what they is so sensitive they have to keep every detail confidential.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 04:11:15 AM
A terrorist cell has been raided this night by French police in Saint Denis, just north of Paris. Operations are still ongoing, as one man is still entrenched in the flat. 5 people arrested, including 3 from the flat, 2 dead including a woman who detonated an explosive vest, heavy exchange of fire in the middle of the night.

EDIT : Boko Haram detonated an explosive device in Nigeria and killed 32 people. The Green Scourge never sleeps...
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 18, 2015, 05:34:13 AM
If you want to live in an area with minimal threat of terrorism I would suggest Ireland.

Move to a town like Cork or Galway.

Only immigrants there are Polacks  :)
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 05:46:12 AM
Ireland is a very nice country, but I have a personal favor for rocky, swampy Scotland.

Police operation has been said to be over. 7 arrests total, 2 dead. 5 police officers injured and a K9 was killed.
If the explosive device is confirmed to be a vest, it could indicate that more attacks were probably planned.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 18, 2015, 08:24:26 AM
Scotland has the better scenery no doubt, but I think the Irish are more friendly.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 18, 2015, 08:44:28 AM
http://www.neogaf.com/forum/showthread.php?t=1141979

Russia is bombing ISIS with TU-160's and dropping heavy payloads.

GAF "It's all America's fault, we're sorry"

I fucking hate these people.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 18, 2015, 08:50:19 AM
Fucking West will cozy up to Russia as always ignoring all the shit they do and people they support (Assad).

See France will send over those Aircraft carriers anytime now.

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 09:25:55 AM
The Charles de Gaulle carrier has left Toulon this morning.

International politics are the biggest sausage factory of them all.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 18, 2015, 11:43:49 AM
If you want to live in an area with minimal threat of terrorism I would suggest Ireland.

 :dead


To bad we don't have a priest emoticon to shield the :dead one.


Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Cerveza mas fina on November 18, 2015, 12:09:34 PM
The Charles de Gaulle carrier has left Toulon this morning.

International politics are the biggest sausage factory of them all.

I ment those ones Russia ordered
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 18, 2015, 12:27:48 PM
If you want to live in an area with minimal threat of terrorism I would suggest Ireland.

 :dead


To bad we don't have a priest emoticon to shield the :dead one.

Peace lines make peace. :ryker
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 18, 2015, 12:36:05 PM
If that were true we'd line each side of the queue of referees coming out of Syria with peace lines. Problem solved. 
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 01:29:55 PM
Over 5000 rounds of ammunition expanded by police in today's raid, according by the head of antiterrorist inquisition judge.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 18, 2015, 01:40:53 PM
That's a good little TIC.

(http://i.imgur.com/0QhR5c2.png)
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 18, 2015, 01:58:57 PM
'head of antiterrorist inquisition judge'

That sounds like a title out of an anime. 
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 03:34:46 PM
Yeah not sure it's the proper name so went literal. France has an inquisition system, a judge is leading the investigation. Anti terror ones have extra prerogatives and sometimes even do choose which intelligence agencies to work with (on top of all the classic secret service ones, police, Paris police, gendarmerie and military have specialist teams as well). Most famous judge was Bruguière, seen a lot in the media and controversial (he produced a very lackluster investigation on the attack on the plane of the Rwanda president that started the genocide).

This hugely informal and transversal setup have been blunted somewhat in last years. Home intelligence has been folded into a single entity and there's a definite streak of making them report more directly to the executive, pushing justice out of the loop.

French security apparatus is a bit arcane.

EDIT : So arcane I was wrong. François Molins is the head of Paris public ministry prosecution. He is the one giving mandate to the judges leading the investigations.

EDIT02 : I would expect more operations in coming days. State of emergency has been extended to three months and police will make the most of it for raiding and seizing. Moreover, until the whereabouts of Abaaoud (Belgian IS operative, suspected to oversee operations here or so we're told) and Abdeslam (one of the shooters) are not confirmed, I would expect high alert. Those two slipping away would be a bit of a blow for European security agencies. The only thing we can take solace with is that today's raid seems to indicate some efficient work and leads to work with.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 04:39:38 PM
The Charles de Gaulle carrier has left Toulon this morning.

International politics are the biggest sausage factory of them all.

I ment those ones Russia ordered

Yeah. It cannot be helped really. Russia is following its own agenda, but really that's what we all do. Striking IS is de facto helping Assad anyway.

As for the fleets, I expect Franco-Russian communications to be cordial but not amount to a lot except for public show, I'd be a lot more confident that the HMS Defender will actually be included in the carrier group operation. I imagine that over Raqqa the French and Russian airforce are at the very least coordinating sorties, but on the whole I don't expect NATO to be all merry, for obvious reasons. I'd say Russia was smart playing their cards with this. Also it must be said that Russia has a lot of assets in Syria, they currently occupy four bases with 4000 men, 50 planes and 16 choppers (and they of course have a permanent naval installation on Syria's coast).

Sending strategic bombers is a bit bonkers tho. Russian living up to the overkill cliché...
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on November 18, 2015, 04:56:05 PM
Russian ordinance is way behind the US in "smart" guidance too.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 05:36:01 PM
Russian ordinance is way behind the US in "smart" guidance too.

That too. I have read that some observers were very skeptical of the state of the RuAF after the Georgian war, where they suffered pretty high losses considering how much Georgia was outgunned. The cynical in me thinks that Russia is also working on the image of its force projection here.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 18, 2015, 06:12:26 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=KZ3inuOMgNQ&feature=youtu.be

A 13 minutes video taken in the street where the operation unfolded this morning. Gives a good impression of how massive the gunfight was. Lots of radio chatter as well and the usual politeness of French police at 1:35. Seems to be at the very start of the operation.

That building was a total shithole, a squat even according to some testimonies. The floor caved in in one of the apartments during the assault. Forensics only just started work because the structure had to be reinforced to allow them in safely.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: jakefromstatefarm on November 19, 2015, 02:26:44 AM
dunno if this got posted

Quote
As with the 2004 Madrid train bombings and the 2005 London Underground bombings, what seems to be emerging from the fragmentary reports so far is that the Paris attacks were carried out by a loose network of family, friends, and fellow travelers who may have each followed their own, somewhat independent paths to radical Islam before joining up with ISIS. But their closely coordinated actions at multiple sites in Paris indicate a significant degree of training, collective planning, and command and control by the Islamic State (including via encrypted messages), under the likely direction of Abdelhamid Abaooud, known as Abu Omar, “The Belgian,” a twenty-seven-year-old of Moroccan origin from Molenbeek, a former jail mate of Salah Abdelslam, who is known to have traveled back and forth between Europe and the Middle East.

Such coordination has been facilitated by the very large contingent of French foreign fighters in Syria. In April, French Senator Jean-Pierre Suer said that 1,430 men and women from France had made their way to Iraq and Syria, up from just twenty as of 2012. About 20 percent of these people are converts. The latest report from West Point’s Center for Combating Terrorism, which has detailed records on 182 French fighters, notes that most are in their twenties. About 25 percent come from the Paris area, with the rest scattered over smaller regions throughout France. According to France’s Interior Ministry, 571 French citizens or residents are presently in Syria and Iraq, some with al-Qaeda affiliate Jabhat an-Nusra, but most with ISIS. More than 260 people are known to have returned to France, and more than 2,000 people from France have been directly implicated in the jihadi pipeline to and from the region, which extends across Europe: police have already made arrests in Belgium and Germany related to the Paris attacks, and traced the entry into Europe of one of the attackers, a Syrian national, through Greece.

French counterterrorism surveillance data (FSPRT) has identified 11,400 radical Islamists, 25 percent of whom are women and 16 percent minors—among the minors, females are in a majority. Legal proceedings are now underway against 646 people suspected of involvement in terrorist activity. French Prime Minister Manuel Valls conceded after Friday’s attacks that even keeping full track of those suspected of being prone to violent acts is practically impossible: around-the-clock surveillance of a single individual requires ten to twenty security agents, of which there are only 6,500 for all of France.

Nor is it a matter of controlling the flow of people into France. France’s Center for the Prevention of Sectarian Drift Related to Islam (CPDSI) estimates that 90 percent of French citizens who have radical Islamist beliefs have French grandparents and 80 percent come from non-religious families. In fact, most Europeans who are drawn into jihad are “born again” into radical religion by their social peers. In France, and in Europe more generally, more than three of every four recruits join the Islamic State together with friends, while only one in five do so with family members and very few through direct recruitment by strangers. Many of these young people identify with neither the country their parents come from nor the country in which they live. Other identities are weak and non-motivating. One woman in the Paris suburb of Clichy-sous-Bois described her conversion as being like that of a transgender person who opts out of the gender assigned at birth: “I was like a Muslim trapped in a Christian body,” she said. She believed she was only able to live fully as a Muslim with dignity in the Islamic State.

For others who have struggled to find meaning in their lives, ISIS is a thrilling cause and call to action that promises glory and esteem in the eyes of friends, and through friends, eternal respect and remembrance in the wider world that many of them will never live to enjoy. A July 2014 poll by ICM Research suggested that more than one in four French youth of all creeds between the ages of eighteen and twenty-four have a favorable or very favorable opinion of ISIS. Even if these estimates are high, in our own interviews with young people in the vast and soulless housing projects of the Paris banlieues we found surprisingly wide tolerance or support for ISIS among young people who want to be rebels with a cause—who want, as they see it, to defend the oppressed.

http://www.nybooks.com/blogs/nyrblog/2015/nov/16/paris-attacks-isis-strategy-chaos/

Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on November 20, 2015, 12:09:14 AM
Fucking hell.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 20, 2015, 12:13:12 AM
I mean my uncle who was special forces longer than any of us have been alive said the Internet has made everybody a threat. Can't argue with that logic
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: DCharlieJP on November 20, 2015, 12:16:15 AM
you can't argue against stupidity, that's absolutely true  :doge
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 20, 2015, 12:17:36 AM
you can't argue against stupidity, that's absolutely true  :doge

i think his point is anybody can google how to make a bomb dude.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: brob on November 20, 2015, 12:19:52 AM
such searing insight comes only from decades of special forces training :doge
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 20, 2015, 12:26:46 AM
such searing insight comes only from decades of special forces training :doge

Awesome let's insult a 64 year old because he doesn't interweb as well as you do.

Protip: Still isn't going to make you a better person.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 20, 2015, 04:50:51 AM
An hostage crisis in the Radisson Hotel in Bamako, Mali. You may remember Mali currently homes a French expeditionary force which intervened to push back rebel groups. Like all countries nearby, Mali has had to contend with Tuareg grievances for a long time. Tuareg armed groups have recently been taking a more djihadist turn, with groups like Ansar Dine and AQIM, the latter being active in all Sahel. I'm not up to date with allegiances there, I don't know if AQIM make the choice to nominally put themselves under ISIS... Nevertheless, Ansar Dine recently called for action against French interests and assets, probably not wanting to look idle while the IS is conducting terrorist attacks on several fronts.

The Radisson houses a lot of expatriates, NGO members, diplomats, flight personnel, some French soldiers as well. French troops are assisting Mali forces in locking down the area and a contingent of special forces have been put on alert in Ouagadougou. 140 patrons and 30 employees are held hostages by 2 (or 3?) armed men. EDIT : Mali security forces just said they suspect up to 10 attackers. Rumors of attackers entering the premises in a diplomatic car. The Radisson is supposedly highly secured : armed guards and in the heart of the capital city where Mali and France troops are patrolling.

Otherwise, as expected, Russia has made clear that its fleet in the Med will not integrate the French carrier group, but strike at the same objectives (implying a modicum of mutual planning, as for the air attacks). Russia will also send more Sukhoi planes down in Syria.

Lastly, you probably know that Abaaoud, the belgian "mastermind" (commanding officer may be truer) has been killed in Wesneday morning raid in Saint Denis, north of Paris. A third body has just been found in the rubble, as was speculated by the officials. Justice is trying to piece back Abaaoud involvement. He has been captured by CCTV in the subway at Montreuil, at 10pm the night of the attacks, 300m from where one the cars used was left with assaults rifles.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 20, 2015, 07:13:57 AM
http://www.arretsurimages.net/breves/2015-11-18/Le-magazine-de-l-Etat-Islamique-gomme-les-femmes-de-Paris-id19468

The IS magazine airbrushes women out of the pictures of the Paris attacks.
Those fucking bigots :neogaf
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Phoenix Dark on November 20, 2015, 07:53:15 AM
I mean my uncle who was special forces longer than any of us have been alive said the Internet has made everybody a threat. Can't argue with that logic
Yup, this is definitely an AiA post.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 20, 2015, 10:47:23 AM
Reports from Bamako now talk of 18 dead people. It's still unclear how many people have been exfiltrated from the Hotel but 30 at the very least. Malian forces are assaulting the place with the help of US special forces operatives and a French RAID officer ("Military consultants" maybe). A detachment of French Gendarmerie GIGN troops have also been dispatched at Bamako. An islamist organisation has made a claim for the attack, apparently one that resulted from a merge including the group responsible for the In Amenas attack in southern Algeria a couple years back (which itself had ties with AQIM and before that, GIA*) but it is hard to verify the veracity of that now. Witness reports that the attackers may be communicating among themselves in English.

Mali officials have just stated that no hostage are any longer within the custody of the attackers.
Malian presidency thanking foreign assistance. UN mission and other African troops also were involved. Sounds the situation is mostly over ?

* That fucking Algerian civil war. Sadly gave the tone for the last 20 years.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 21, 2015, 04:05:38 AM
The Brussels region have raised their alertness to the maximum level : Subway is closed, along with some of the tramway lines. Authorities call for limiting your presence in transports, public pieces and gatherings if possible. Stay safe, Belgium.

EDIT : Former DGSE (French intelligence) agent now living in Brussels casually said on public radio that he heard that the man arrested yesterday in Belgium received during his interrogation a text message saying "The jew is not here".
 :heh

EDIT02 : That bit seemingly comes from La Dernière Heure, which is the New York Post equivalent for Brussels  :neogaf
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 21, 2015, 10:45:50 AM
Thanks for the updates, VK.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 21, 2015, 01:53:56 PM
I'm a Parisian through and through but I do know and love Brussels a bit.

I'm honestly a bit surprised by the current situation. Unlike the friendly football game canceled in Hannover, Belgian governement has been very specific about their warnings: malls, underground transport system, railway stations. According to BBC bars have been asked to shut early. Movie theaters closed, most football games canceled, also concerts. The city center (Brussels proper) is super quiet and devoid of activity.

Either they are overly cautious or they have clear intelligence. Just looking for the Paris killer on the loose wouldn't justify such drastic measures.

Le Soir (reputable Belgian paper) claims two suspects are sought for, one with an explosive device.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 22, 2015, 01:36:34 AM
Belgian ministers (Vice-PM and Interior) confirmed on TV that they are looking for multiple men. Situation will be reviewed through the weekend but subway is expected to be partly closed at least until Monday.

In Bamako, the fallout of the Hotel attack is a bit sketchy. Two attackers have been killed, but three more people are wanted. It's unclear if they took part directly.

Two bits of info you may not find in english speaking media regarding France : Yesterday a support demonstration was held in Toulouse, but a lot of people present expressed discomfort because of the presence of union and political leaders in front. All league football games are supposed to open with a minute of silence and the national anthem, but the match between Bastia and Ajaccio (two corsican clubs) was programmed to have the song Dio vi salvi Regina instead, which serves as a corsican nationalist anthem. Bit of an outcry over that, and the decision was reversed (along with the match being delayed for weather). The Bastia Football Club ownership has always been linked to shady business, organized crime and nationalist groups.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Madrun Badrun on November 22, 2015, 09:15:54 AM
Belgian ministers (Vice-PM and Interior) confirmed on TV that they are looking for multiple men.

Europe is so progressive.  No wonder ISIS hates them. 
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 22, 2015, 05:26:46 PM
Belgians tweeting cat photos with #BrusselsLockdown to help the blackout asked by police so as to bury potentially compromising info on raids :lol

What a country.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 23, 2015, 01:54:19 PM
An explosive belt was found at Montrouge (sourthern Paris periphery) in a trash bin. Experts are trying to determine if it is the same explosive material as the one used elsewhere last week.

Suspect on the run Salah Abdelslam has been believed by police, through cell phone information, to be near that point after the attacks, before taking a car up to the 18th district of the capital where he was later picked up by two friends that transported him to Belgium (car was controlled north of France). The IS statement mentioned 8 attackers (instead of the 7 killed that night) and the 18th district as one of the targets.

It would seem fairly reasonable to assume, as rumors and unverifiable reports said for a few days now, that Salah Abdelslam was supposed to blow himself up like his own brother but pussied out. If so, he may currently be hiding both from police and from some of his employers.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Kara on November 23, 2015, 09:05:19 PM
Apparently the police in France can conduct warrantless searches atm. And months from now (approximately 3) too. :holeup
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Am_I_Anonymous on November 24, 2015, 02:49:24 AM
Apparently the police in France can conduct warrantless searches atm. And months from now (approximately 3) too. :holeup

Well I mean yeah that's what a state of emergency is buddy.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 24, 2015, 02:55:58 AM
Apparently the police in France can conduct warrantless searches atm. And months from now (approximately 3) too. :holeup

Yes, that's one of the perks of the state of emergency. There's been a couple of news blurbs (massive seizing of cocaïne in Paris, a cop being killed during a raid on the flat of an arm trafficker) that suggest the police is making the most of it, be it about terrorism or not. To be fair, the governement better be very efficient in unrooting all known potential terrorist cells with those extended powers considering just how much a leeway they asked (state of emergency is 12 days max without parliament voting extension).

Everyone is leaving the shell shocked state now and people start raising eyebrows on a number of issues. I think the governement has been a little too keen to use a very martial lexicon and to force through a couple of security reforms as fast as they could. There will also be a lot of blowback from the investigation if it turns there's still one or two men running around (regardless of the quality of the police work)... also when people will get tired of the bland reports from the military intervention (breakthrough will probably not happen overnight). By being so overly severe with words, they contribute to desensitize the citizens (we're barely more "at war" than we were before) and to set up further loss of trust in the institutions when it will turn out that IS will not be "destroyed" or when a new attack will hit.

There's regional elections in two weeks. I don't know how events will impact them but I am doubtful it really will. Expect very good results from the far-right party which could maybe get to the presidency of a handful of regional councils.  Socialists will maybe get a boost from the situation but it will only translate to a slighty less impressive rout.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on November 24, 2015, 10:53:50 AM
I think it's also important to keep in mind with regards to the prolonged state of emergency :

- We know for some time now that because of Syrian civil war the number of individuals deemed as a possible threat far outstretches the capacity of intelligence agencies.
- The November attacks were carried out despite beefed up security measures decided in January. It's the second major one this year, adding to a number of close calls (Thalys gunman) and foiled plots.
- France is hosting a major climate summit and perhaps more importantly Football Euro Championship next summer.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on December 01, 2015, 10:47:43 AM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/world/europe/how-the-paris-attackers-honed-their-assault-through-trial-and-error.html

A surprising lack of coordination and consequences. At every turn, pretty much.

And we still seem to think that collecting more data will solve these problems.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Rufus on December 04, 2015, 01:12:26 PM
https://twitter.com/AFP/status/672374708982140928

...I don't even know. Are they that scared of LePen? That can't be it, can it?
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on December 04, 2015, 01:28:03 PM
France ironically turning into pre-Arab Spring Algeria

(http://i.imgur.com/xphOKsc.png)
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on December 04, 2015, 05:58:09 PM
http://www.nytimes.com/2015/12/01/world/europe/how-the-paris-attackers-honed-their-assault-through-trial-and-error.html

A surprising lack of coordination and consequences. At every turn, pretty much.

And we still seem to think that collecting more data will solve these problems.

I think there's a general misconception of what intelligence agencies can do and it's apparent in every debate following an attack since it's always framed in "Did spooks fuck up ?". New tools and more importantly more agents would probably do good but would never solve the problem. There's also a reason why intelligence agencies, police and army are "understaffed" and it's because states are not made of money and permanent police presence is in itself not necessarily the type of society we want to live in.

https://twitter.com/AFP/status/672374708982140928

...I don't even know. Are they that scared of LePen? That can't be it, can it?

No it's not that. Elections will carry as planned and we'll see in a couple days just how far the far right reach (My bet : farer than before). It will not deter that in any way.
I would surmise that potential project is supposed to match some sort of security assessment. It better be because otherwise I think it will be a tough sell. Even with a good pitch, I don't see how it could be seen as justified to extend it without any deadline now instead of reassessing the situation with the Parliament when current emergency state will end.

I'm a bit at a loss why a governement would like to send the message that the current situation is as bad than during the Algerian war.

I haven't seen that bit picked up in newspapers yet, but Prime Minister Valls did adress an extension a few days ago. Valls is a very grating guy, sort of a center left toned down Sarkozy. It's his schtick to be the stern Republican combining the best of conservative stance on security and social progress value or something. All those fuckers self-style themselves as Clemenceau :neogaf .

TL, DR : It's gonna be pretty shitty over here in the immediate future.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on December 04, 2015, 06:07:28 PM
Also, not unlike what happened over Libya, France is already running low on bomb ammunitions because of current operations against the IS and has placed a priority order for more (replenishing the stock was originally scheduled for Q4 2016). Just another reminder that even the foremost militaries in Western Europe are not fitted for extensive action via their most cutting edge assets.

There too there's a misconception of what can be done by the general public.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: Samson Manhug on December 05, 2015, 12:11:28 AM
According to USA Today, the USAF too is running out of munitions:

http://www.usatoday.com/story/news/world/2015/12/03/isil-iraq-syria-hellfire-missiles-drones/76741954/

Quote
"We're in the business of killing terrorists and business is good," Air Force Secretary Deborah Lee James said in statement.
Title: Re: Multiple Shootings/Bombings in Paris
Post by: VomKriege on December 05, 2015, 05:32:38 AM
Same thing than the staffing really : Those thing cost money. Besides Western countries strategy doesn't account (for better or worst) for long large conflicts.