THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Bebpo on September 18, 2016, 04:33:33 PM
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Schrodinger's cat isn't new to me. I learned about it in school like anyone else and it's in popular culture here and there. But I'm playing Virtue's Last Reward/999-2 and they're making a big deal out of it again in the game and it reminds me that I've always not "got" it.
Like idea is that if there's a cat in a box with a 50% chance being dead/50% chance being alive, it's in a state of being neither dead, nor alive. Then when you open the box it becomes a defined state of dead or alive.
This is bullshit to me. There is no such thing as not dead, not alive with cats. To me, the cat is either dead, or it's alive, the actual state it is when in the box is simply "we don't know" It always bugs me when people bring up schrodinger's cat and ask someone if the cat is dead or alive in the box and no one just says "I don't know"
Is it just semantics? Is the whole "neither dead or alive" state just a scientific way to say declare a state "WE DON'T KNOW" because scientists were too embarrassed to say they don't know something that they tried to sound super smart saying we do know what it is! It's neither dead nor alive! Like if variables X is alive, Y is dead, and Z is we don't know, is that the same thing as X is alive, Y is dead, and Z is neither dead nor alive? Because if they're not the same and the neither dead nor alive state is real actual scientific state, it just does not make sense to me. Never has.
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There's no actual cat. It refers to a very real phenomena that observing quantum physics changes the results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq69-MI9TA0
Forgive the cartoony-ness, but this is the best video I've seen that explains it in laymen's terms.
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I know about the no cat thing, but the cat has always been used as the example to illustrate the principle. But I'll watch that video and see if it makes any more sense to me.
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That's the point. It was given as an argument on why unknowable physical state leads absurdities, back when people didn't believe in quantum superposition. It's not used to illustrate how superposition works, its an argument against superposition.
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Quantum mechanics is weird. Using something like a cat, which can only be one of two states no matter what, obviously doesn't make sense.
What it's about though, is that the very act of observation 'locks' it in one state. However, what always gets left out with this point is that observing is actually interacting. It's not just 'looking at from a distance'.
This is as far as my knowledge (ahem) goes.
Have Henry explain it to you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IOYyCHGWJq4
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Also I'm glad that Japanesse video games have inspired you to have an interest in reality.
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There's no actual cat. It refers to a very real phenomena that observing quantum physics changes the results.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Bq69-MI9TA0
Forgive the cartoony-ness, but this is the best video I've seen that explains it in laymen's terms.
Ok, after watching the video, here's my question:
In the video the electron when unobserved scatters as though it went through multiple states of going through slit 1, 2, or not at all. But when observed, it only goes through 1. The theory is that it is aware it is being observed.
Now my questions is, how does it know it's being observed? In the video there's a big machine staring at it, but what if there wasn't and there was some tiny little camera 5 miles away that could observe it. Like is the idea that matter is able to detect when anything in existence can detect it? But then it's surrounded by existence, for instance the air it goes through is detecting it at all times. So it just doesn't make sense to me. It's almost like saying matter is self-aware intelligence that can understand when a human, or human set machine is tracking it and only then conforms to a single reality whereas otherwise it exists in all realities which is...pretty sci-fi and unbelievable to me?
Also I'm glad that Japanesse video games have inspired you to have an interest in reality.
:lol
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=p-MNSLsjjdo
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Ok so that video is from a really really shitty new-age documenentry that basically tries to sell their wacky ideas with physics terms. Quantum physics has nothing to do with humans, so being 'aware' has no affect what so ever.
The best way I can describe why 'observing' has an affect, is this. Basically anythime humans make an 'observation' in science we are interacting with the experiment in some way, like bouncing light off of something so we can look at it. However on such a small scale, if we bounce light off of something that can actually affect how the small scale phenomenon actually acts. source: had to take quantum physics in undergrad. I understood half of it.
Basically when you see the word 'observe' think 'take measurements'
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https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ORLN_KwAgs
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One more to really confuse you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZacggH9wB7Y
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Is it possible that quantum mechanics don't actually exist and we just don't fully understand how light works? So even though we think the light is scattering in a wave across two slits because it's interacting with possibilities of itself, it just turns out that we don't fully understand light and it does that normally?
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One more to really confuse you:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZacggH9wB7Y
I like this one.
Part of me wants to go back to school and learn physics/science/engineering.
The other part of me remembers why I never liked this stuff. I like concrete definite answers. I don't like things being unknown and left to questions. It's frustrating!
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Do I look like the 8 dimensional being who programmed this simulation we call the universe? Trying putting it up on Quora and seeing if it replies.
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It's not just about photons photoning about, but all atoms as well as subatomic particles. That part we don't fully understand is why the smallest of things behave the way they do and what the implications are. That's what quantum mechanics is, as far as I can grasp it. The above video I linked goes into the implications.
We do know enough to make ample use of quantum mechanics though:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_mechanics#Applications
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Do I look like the 8 dimensional being who programmed this simulation we call the universe?
Sometimes. Depends on the thread.
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One more, which I should have posted first:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CrxqTtiWxs4
Much more coherent description of what this is all about.
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What if it was Shrodinger's Dick instead of cat and the dick's erection is dependent on the state of an electron
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Ok, after watching the video, here's my question:
In the video the electron when unobserved scatters as though it went through multiple states of going through slit 1, 2, or not at all. But when observed, it only goes through 1. The theory is that it is aware it is being observed.
Now my questions is, how does it know it's being observed?
The act of "observing" interacts with the experiment and changes the results. We're currently not able to "observe" quantum experiments without changing them because of quantum physics' behavior.
To use an analogy, the issue isn't that an eye is seeing the experiment and changing the results. The issue is that the light required for the eye to even see at all changes the results. Or something like that.
I don't have a PhD but that's as I understand it. Quantum theory is a rabbit hole that will make your head spin the deeper you go.
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Is it possible that quantum mechanics don't actually exist and we just don't fully understand how light works? So even though we think the light is scattering in a wave across two slits because it's interacting with possibilities of itself, it just turns out that we don't fully understand light and it does that normally?
Quantum theory accounts for several things that aren't easily explained by the standard model of physics.
Quantum theory also provides accurate descriptions for many previously unexplained phenomena, such as black-body radiation and the stability of the orbitals of electrons in atoms. It has also given insight into the workings of many different biological systems, including smell receptors and protein structures. Recent work on photosynthesis has provided evidence that quantum correlations play an essential role in this fundamental process of plants and many other organisms.
And the result of quantum mechanics is all around you. :)
Many modern electronic devices are designed using quantum mechanics. Examples include the laser, the transistor (and thus the microchip), the electron microscope, and magnetic resonance imaging (MRI). The study of semiconductors led to the invention of the diode and the transistor, which are indispensable parts of modern electronics systems, computer and telecommunication devices. Another application is the light emitting diode which is a high-efficiency source of light.
One theory, believed by Elon Musk, is that quantum mechanics are explained by all of us living in a Matrix-like simulation (http://www.theverge.com/2016/6/2/11837874/elon-musk-says-odds-living-in-simulation). I don't think it's taken very seriously, though.
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If you put a cat in a box and then leave if there for a while, it will die whether you look in the box or not. Just thought we needed to be clear on that point.
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but if my cat is already dead would putting her in a box bring her half back to life, and then I cold observe her and there is a 50/50 change she would be alive again?
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This is a very good thread!
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This is a very good thread!
I was waiting for this. Actually, I wasn't willing to believe the thread existed until I saw your response.
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Physics is fascinating as fuck.
As far as the observation in double slit experiment is concerned, we can never actually observe the collapse since the information is relayed at c speed while the actual process either goes back in time to change the outcome or more likely, perhaps doesn't 'exist' as far as our reality is concerned and might be hardwired in to the way the universe works.
idk tho
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I could go either way on the subject, tbh
#stoney
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Fuck quantum physics. And I'm sure there's something fishy about that double slit experiment. It makes zero sense.
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Physics always looks like fun, but it's like 90% math, and I suck donkey dick at math. :stahp
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but if my cat is already dead would putting her in a box bring her half back to life, and then I cold observe her and there is a 50/50 change she would be alive again?
(http://i.imgur.com/PXEuMsP.jpg)
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What if it was Shrodinger's Dick instead of cat and the dick's erection is dependent on the state of an electron
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zTZc3milai0
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Talk about Schrodinger's cat?
Let's don't and say we did.
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Talk about Schrodinger's cat?
Let's don't and say we did.
If you don't talk about Schrodinger's cat, does it still exist? :ohhh
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Let's not and say we did if and only if we did or didn't say we did or didn't do what I'm saying we should do.
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OK, but what about the tree in the forest ?
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No forests on flat earth
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Let's talk about schrodangers penis, is it in yet?
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More quantum ghosts:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tafGL02EUOA
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Watch this movie if your interested in Schrodinger's cat.
(http://axxomovies.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/09/coherence-2013-movie-poster.jpg)
Hell, watch it even if you're not.
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http://gizmodo.com/breakthrough-quantum-cat-experiment-captured-on-camera-1786923180
(https://i.kinja-img.com/gawker-media/image/upload/s--HF_Us9fu--/c_fit,fl_progressive,q_80,w_636/bqqt9lpx8qwvzvgtsdbi.gif)
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mod abuse
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It's both 4 inches and 8 inches at the same time!
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What is with the thread title change?
Am I back on GAF?
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What is with the thread title change?
Am I back on GAF?
The mods are finally listening to me. Praise be to them! :rejoice
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What is with the thread title change?
Am I back on GAF?
No, because you're not banned.
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tbh i find this new topic kind of confusing
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I find it arousing