How about an end the guardianship systems in Saudi? How about comparing that to the western world*.What are you expecting Wrath to do about that?
See, I don't agree with banning all immigration, but I don't know how many really do. The point has been that the system in place is too open and causing a problem.The American immigration system is a labyrinthine nightmare. I can't imagine the EU's process is any better considering everything else they do.
What about the Roma, though?The Riches was incredibly underrated and never should have been cancelled. Especially not on a fucking cliffhanger!
can i say gypped anymore y/nhad a substitute teacher throw a fit about some kid saying this and lectured the class about it for an entire class period once in junior high school
can i say gypped anymore y/ntfw I realized it wasn't spelled "jipped" and was equivalent to using "Jew" as a verb. :-\
The flaw in this logic is that most muslim countries(ones that aren't war torn, at least) aren't as stereotypically extremist as you think. I keep seeing people here say "so many neighborhoods full of dudes with no women in sight" when that isn't even true in the shithole that is Saudi Arabia. Hell, Syria recently went to shit, so did Egypt(not as much as Syria) but claiming either country before forced women in burkas and kept them inside is laughable even if you go back further in decades. Saudi is objectively worse when it comes to that and even then, evolved a bit in the past few years where many don't even cover their face or hair anymore. There's plenty of Saudi immigrants, or Visa students and workers who assimilated to outside culture pretty much right away.
So yeah, I do point at racism when I hear this. Because most of what I hear comes from a place that doesn't have much if any knowledge about the Middle Eastern world. I'm not surprised that extremists have spread into European and North American countries, hell religious crazies of the Christian sort have and still exist there in greater numbers, but pointing at all immigrants or using the crazies to as an excuse to shut off any immigrants from these countries coming in is suspect. Especially from people who argue for free speech when SJWs bitch about white supremacists.
I see Andy is trying to deflect from Nintendo's absolute failures again. :ufup
What about the Roma, though?The Riches was incredibly underrated and never should have been cancelled. Especially not on a fucking cliffhanger!
Although it felt like half the cast wound up on Justified as antagonists.
Fine, moved my post as well:
The flaw in this logic is that most muslim countries(ones that aren't war torn, at least) aren't as stereotypically extremist as you think. I keep seeing people here say "so many neighborhoods full of dudes with no women in sight" when that isn't even true in the shithole that is Saudi Arabia. Hell, Syria recently went to shit, so did Egypt(not as much as Syria) but claiming either country before forced women in burkas and kept them inside is laughable even if you go back further in decades. Saudi is objectively worse when it comes to that and even then, evolved a bit in the past few years where many don't even cover their face or hair anymore. There's plenty of Saudi immigrants, or Visa students and workers who assimilated to outside culture pretty much right away.
So yeah, I do point at racism when I hear this. Because most of what I hear comes from a place that doesn't have much if any knowledge about the Middle Eastern world. I'm not surprised that extremists have spread into European and North American countries, hell religious crazies of the Christian sort have and still exist there in greater numbers, but pointing at all immigrants or using the crazies to as an excuse to shut off any immigrants from these countries coming in is suspect. Especially from people who argue for free speech when SJWs bitch about white supremacists.
Hardly anybody would mind proper immigrants. That's not what people are worried/ pissed off about and it's not what's causing the current problems. Nobody would mind taking in actual war refugees, either - after all, war refugees have to leave once their country is safe again, and they usually want to return ASAP anyway. Hell, we took in many more refugees during the war in Yugoslavia and hardly anybody complained. But the current situation is a lot more complicated and a complete fucking mess. We're not talking about guest students from Saudi Arabia or engineers from Iraq here, we're talking about illegal immigrants from god knows where who claim to be Sryian refugees. Some of them certainly are (though that doesn't change the fact they're illegal immigrants), but a lot of them are not. And those are the guys causing trouble and giving Arab immigrants a bad rep, even though a large part of them aren't even Arabs.
EDIT: Obviously talking about Europe and the current refugee crisis here.
What about the Roma, though?The Riches was incredibly underrated and never should have been cancelled. Especially not on a fucking cliffhanger!
Although it felt like half the cast wound up on Justified as antagonists.
Someone else besides me watched that show. :leon
Can you provide evidence that these refugees aren't "proper" (assuming crushing poverty isn't a legitimate reason to emigrate)? Considering the high chance of dying it's hard to believe that most refugees aren't doing it with good cause.
Or they drown...
I still don't have evidence these refugees are "illegitimate"
Or they drown...
I still don't have evidence these refugees are "illegitimate"
Or they drown...
I still don't have evidence these refugees are "illegitimate"
They usually don't drown. And please define "legitimate". I didn't use the term, I don't know what you consider legitimate, and I don't know what exactly you want evidence for. I used the terms "legal" and "proper", and what's legal and proper is defined in the 1951 UN refugee convention and national laws.
My problem is the deflection tactic of blaming immigrants unfairly using the worst of the lot as a fair assessment for why some voters have switched conservative. When doing that has less to do with immigration and more to do with judging people from a different country unfairly based on preconceived notions and confirmation bias(oh look lot of arabs there and not a woman in sight, savages!).
Hardly anybody would mind proper immigrants. That's not what people are worried/ pissed off about and it's not what's causing the current problems. Nobody would mind taking in actual war refugees, either - after all, war refugees have to leave once their country is safe again, and they usually want to return ASAP anyway. Hell, we took in many more refugees during the war in Yugoslavia and hardly anybody complained. But the current situation is a lot more complicated and a complete fucking mess. We're not talking about guest students from Saudi Arabia or engineers from Iraq here, we're talking about illegal immigrants from god knows where who claim to be Sryian refugees. Some of them certainly are (though that doesn't change the fact they're illegal immigrants), but a lot of them are not. And those are the guys causing trouble and giving Arab immigrants a bad rep, even though a large part of them aren't even Arabs.
EDIT: Obviously talking about Europe and the current refugee crisis here.
European culture towards immigrants is surprisingly hostile though, even though not on its face.
The "crisis" in the EU is because of the free movement zone, it means nations that assumed they could keep out certain ethnicities and cultures through their immigration policies are now faced with having to deal with those because they've been let into the zone elsewhere. Something the western countries have been whining about the expansion into the east doing as long as I can remember. Yet they certainly don't want to give up free movement for those from elite cultures.The Polish aren't exactly 'culturally incompatible', in fact they're sometimes held up as model immigrants, and yet they were apparently one of the main reasons the Britons voted for Brexit. Can't have them stealing scraps off the table.
Leper benjiNot until you answer for Cain's murder of Abel. :bolo
Fiiiiiiiine, Benji. I'll put my last post about this in the GAF thread here:Your problem is that you take criticisms of issues in a region and a religion to be rejection of all people from that area and religion, thus you can point out some counter examples and claim it's racism. That's bullshit and you know it.
My problem is the deflection tactic of blaming immigrants unfairly using the worst of the lot as a fair assessment for why some voters have switched conservative. When doing that has less to do with immigration and more to do with judging people from a different country unfairly based on preconceived notions and confirmation bias(oh look lot of arabs there and not a woman in sight, savages!).QuoteYou're from Saudi and I'm not. K. How about an end the guardianship systems in Saudi? How about comparing that to the western world*. That a huge gap. It's not racism. That's a major difference that reflects other ideas in that culture.
I'm a lot more critical of Saudi than you think. My forum history proves that. But let me ask you this: what do you think the guardianship system actually is? It's not exactly enforced by law, rather it's a law enforced by the guardian himself. It's awful and belittles women as possessions whether they're wives, mothers, sisters or daughters. But if said guardian literally doesn't give a shit, is more civilized and such then nobody can force the woman out of traveling, a job, etc. for not having a guardian. It's backwards as fuck and terrible, but isn't so much the norm as you'd hear it painted as. Still more than it should, and definitely should be put out of law, but acting as if these people can't assimilate at all due to their draconian society is very much thinking low of them.QuoteSee, I don't agree with banning all immigration, but I don't know how many really do. The point has been that the system in place is too open and causing a problem. Assimilation into the new country is a problem. (Which is, again, one of the criticisms of multi-multiculturalism: that it doesn't encourage or value assimilation as well and at times vilifies** it.)
The problems you're talking about happen with or without the person being an immigrant. A citizen can go on a shooting rampage, for instance, but it's not indicative of the citizens, yet rhetoric can and has been used against immigrants and their culture. And the solution thrown around is toughening up what is already strict immigration, especially for countries of interest. Anybody from the middle east for example go through a lengthier process of immigrating than say someone from Ireland. I'm not asking for more relaxed immigration, I get why it is the way it is and deal with it. But thinking it's really open is not understanding how the system works or why the people who got in are actually in. Most problems stem from some overstaying, and then it's not exactly hard finding them. I got paid visits by homeland security every other month to check my status, for example.
I'm not saying you're arguing against all immigration. As I said before, I find flaws in the logic and find it funny when people get mad if I say racism does, in fact, have something to do with why people get mad at all these immigrants.QuoteRacism as an accusation serves no use or purpose in the discussion. Observe the problem, understand the problem and fix the problem. When someone says the problem is the damn sand people then it's racism. When someone says the problem is cultural clash and immigration policies.. it's not racism and something that can be addressed.
Just because someone uses big words doesn't mean you can't see the cracks. Listen, I get why. I hate those idiots who moved to the UK yet want to have Sharia Law, for example. You left a country war torn due to it, yet you ask for it? It's nuts. My point being that those people are the westboro baptist church type, a group of crazies. You probably should watch them but that's all you can do unless they show signs of doing much worse. Don't blame immigration so much as hold those people accountable for their own actions, is what I mean.Quote*To be fair to you, as far as I know, your time with and views of the Western world are heavily spent in Saudi and American college campuses, so your idea of the west is going to be shit-tier, easily manipulated and out of touch.
90% of my childhood was spent in between Texas and Virginia. And now half of my adulthood was spent in Montana. My adolescence is where it was all in Saudi. I've been to the west, east and rustbelt. Stayed in different areas and hung out with all sorts of different people. I'm not exactly a college campus left wing nut. I don't see the need to prove anything, but if you are legitimately asking about my background, there you goQuote** Some of the 'progressive' left hate Asians for assimilating well. A weird practice where you critique and ethnicity for progressing when others haven't in the name of what you call progressive politics. Yeesh.
I know what you mean. Can you guess how many so called inclusive liberals assume I'm sexist on sight? It's idiotic. Idiots exist in every political stance. I'm not so much arguing for liberals or the liberal way of life, as much as I'm arguing against an idea because I don't see it that way. If my argument came off as combative then I apologize. I just thought I'd share my piece since my perspective is very different from others having lived in both societies for a considerable amount of time.