THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Himu on August 13, 2017, 04:46:28 AM

Title: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 13, 2017, 04:46:28 AM: I think I'm going with Seinfeld. 9 great seasons, more relatable, I prefer the humor more (though I love classic Simpsons humor), I think Seinfeld was more consistently funny than classic Simpsons, and the shows legacy is much better because the Simpsons has more bad seasons than good at this point and peaked over two decades ago and won't fucking die.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: seagrams hotsauce on August 13, 2017, 06:04:52 AM: Simpsons, easily. Also, not that it was ever in either of these shows league, but Friends sucked.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Valkyrie on August 13, 2017, 07:46:53 AM: Great stuff, but I'm more of a Futurama/Always Sunny kinda person. 8)
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Mupepe on August 13, 2017, 08:29:10 AM: Simpsons easily.

Say hello to Miguel Sanchez!
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: WanderingWind on August 13, 2017, 08:41:48 AM: Seinfeld for me. Simpsons wore out its welcome decades ago and frankly, even during its heyday a lot of the episodes were hit or miss. Density wise, Seinfeld was just more put together. But the best episodes of the Simpsons were probably better than the best episodes of Seinfeld. Overall, I think Seinfeld had more great episodes. Simpsons won the culture war though.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Olivia Wilde Homo on August 13, 2017, 09:14:40 AM: The Simpsons

The Simpsons had a good start right away whereas Seinfeld really didn't click until the third season. The Simpsons started showing signs of decline in the eighth season but Seinfeld was showing signs of decline in the seventh season. So we're talking seven seasons of strong content for The Simpsons versus just just four for Seinfeld.

P.S. The Shield > The Wire
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 13, 2017, 12:15:45 PM: Seinfeld, only because the show makers had the self awareness to quit before the show turned to complete shit. Sure, the later seasons took a gradual turn for the worse, much like The Simpsons started around season 7 or 8 and up until 10 or so. But The Simpsons just kept going, becoming more mediocre and less relevant. By now the rubbish seasons vastly outnumber the ones from the golden era. At its peak, there was nothing better than The Simspons, but I have to give it to Seinfeld on the basis of consistency.

I also disagree that the Simpsons was great right off the bat. The much too sentimental/moralistic nature of the first season, as well as the lack of funnies and sub-par animation that doesn't match up with the classic look which later defined the show make it unwatchable for me. Both shows started out with a process of finding themselves before they came into their stride.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 13, 2017, 12:29:50 PM: Quote from: Olivia Wilde Homo on August 13, 2017, 09:14:40 AM
The Simpsons

The Simpsons had a good start right away whereas Seinfeld really didn't click until the third season. The Simpsons started showing signs of decline in the eighth season but Seinfeld was showing signs of decline in the seventh season. So we're talking seven seasons of strong content for The Simpsons versus just just four for Seinfeld.

P.S. The Shield > The Wire

I think Seinfeld was great in seasons. 1 and 2. The Chinese Restaurant? The Deal? It's just a different type of style than season 3 Seinfeld and up but I don't think that makes it bad. It's also generally seen that Sinpsons wasn't great until season 3 as well, so both are in the same boat. I personally enjoy both shows seasons 1 and 2, though.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 13, 2017, 12:38:30 PM: The Chinese restaurant was from the first two seasons? Wow. I need to rewatch it all, because it never felt like that to me, that one is timeless. Cartwright!
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 13, 2017, 12:40:12 PM: I think in the end Seinfeld broke more ground. Simpsons was just a dysfunctional family. It's not like All In The Family didn't do that. But Seinfeld talked about masturbation and more down to Earth topics that eventually went on to inspire far more shows I think. For example, I see more Seinfeld in something like Sunny or Louie orArrested Development than I do The Simpsons. I think Seinfeld broke more doors down, broke far more taboos. In the end, The Simpsons is still a loving, although dysfunctional family with hugs and kisses. Seinfeld eschewed all of that, which was considered the standard for sit coms at the time. Compare The Simpsons first episode to Seinfeld's and it's night and day. In the end, the Simpsons enjoy their Christmas. How is any different than National Lampoon's Christmas movie which is also about a dysfunctional family and a miserable Christmas? The one thing that makes it more ground breaking is that it's a cartoon that doesn't talk down to its audience and assume they're stupid. But Seinfeld? Innovative out the gate.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 13, 2017, 12:40:37 PM: Quote from: agrajag on August 13, 2017, 12:38:30 PM
The Chinese restaurant was from the first two seasons? Wow. I need to rewatch it all, because it never felt like that to me, that one is timeless. Cartwright!

Season 2.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 13, 2017, 12:44:30 PM: I don't think that's a fair characterization of the Simpsons at all. They tackled a lot of adult themes, although in a less overt fashion.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 13, 2017, 12:48:55 PM: One interesting thing is, maybe it was my circle, but growing up none of us watched Seinfeld at least until middle school, while we all grew up on The Simpsons. I recall Who Shot Mr Burns to be a huge cultural moment. Everyone on the school bus had an idea on who shot that fucker and put down their own theory but no one I knew talked about Seinfeld in elementary school. I find this really interesting. My 4th teacher did talk about Friends (:yuck) though. Ugh.

Quote from: agrajag on August 13, 2017, 12:44:30 PM
I don't think that's a fair characterization of the Simpsons at all. They tackled a lot of adult themes, although in a less overt fashion.

When did I say Simpsons didn't tackle adult themes? I'm just saying I think Seinfeld broke more ground.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 13, 2017, 01:03:45 PM: My favorite part about the Simpsons was how much it referenced pop culture, movies, novels, other shows, etc. Every episode was filled to the brim with references. I used to love reading through the episode capsules on the Simpsons archive and seeing which references I missed. It's a deceptively smart show.

The whole Who Shot Mr. Burns episode was a big homage to Twin Peaks. I was elated to catch that since my parents let me watch TP as a kid.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: TVC15 on August 13, 2017, 03:37:23 PM: Night Court.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: bork on August 13, 2017, 09:23:00 PM: Not exactly two shows I'd think to compare, but OK. Seinfeld, easily. Matt Groening's best stuff was in Life In Hell anyway.

Used to love The Simpsons in the 90s and early 90s, but stopped caring about it by the late 90s.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 14, 2017, 12:59:55 AM: Quote from: Jack Remington on August 13, 2017, 02:14:14 PM
Season 7 of Seinfeld might be the best season of the entire show. It's the George and Susan engagement season.

Also a lot of the classic episodes everyone references are from 8 and 9.

8 has a lot of great episodes but also a lot of ones where you could see that the show was changing for the worse.

I am happy the poll is tied now, I love both shows with a passion.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: pilonv1 on August 14, 2017, 08:12:23 AM: Quote from: TVC 15 on August 13, 2017, 03:37:23 PM
Night Court.

Newsradio
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 01:27:25 PM: I'll go The Simpsons if only because it essentially rebooted the legitimacy of the animated show as primetime programming and was a key part, along with the NFL, of legitimizing the FOX Network.

"Who Shot Mr. Burns?" is often overlooked in the 1990s MOMENTS ON TV that consumed popular culture. And it's remarkable, knowing the prior recent history of TV, that it was on an animated show on the lowest ranked and available of the networks.

Quote from: Queen of Ice on August 13, 2017, 12:40:12 PM
I think in the end Seinfeld broke more ground. Simpsons was just a dysfunctional family. It's not like All In The Family didn't do that. But Seinfeld talked about masturbation and more down to Earth topics that eventually went on to inspire far more shows I think. For example, I see more Seinfeld in something like Sunny or Louie orArrested Development than I do The Simpsons. I think Seinfeld broke more doors down, broke far more taboos.
Check out the writing staffs for both shows though. Spike Feresten wasn't the only one to start on The Simpsons and then move over to Seinfeld just the only one to get a failed talk show after it. SNL -> The Simpsons was an infamous early conduit too.

Mitchell Hurwitz came up through The Golden Girls so did James Vallely (the second most credited writer for the entire AD run), his first created show was The Ellen Show. (Which also was the start for a number of other early AD writers.)

Cheers was another program that birthed the people who created the stuff we later saw as extensively innovative. Fraiser was the dominating awards darling much like Will and Grace, not Seinfeld.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 14, 2017, 01:31:16 PM: It's weird to see Himuro espouse Seinfeld as "inspired sitcom X more than the Simpsons" when the Simpson's was a completely different animal altogether. The Simpsons paved the way for King of the Hill, Family Guy, South Park, Futurama, American Dad...
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Mupepe on August 14, 2017, 01:36:05 PM: It amazes me how much benji knows about some of the most random things.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 02:26:13 PM: Great thing about this discussion is I honestly don't care which one you pick. Both are so GOAT-tier that it's truly like asking if you prefer apples or oranges. Both are so fantastic, that I might even change my mind depending on my mood. My take is: if Seinfeld is my number 1, Simpsons is my number 2; if Simpsons is my number 1, Seinfeld is my number 2. For me they're like peas and carrots. Two totally different kinds of humor about completely different things, but man were they both fantastic at what they did.

Quote from: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 01:27:25 PM
"Who Shot Mr. Burns?" is often overlooked in the 1990s MOMENTS ON TV that consumed popular culture. And it's remarkable, knowing the prior recent history of TV, that it was on an animated show on the lowest ranked and available of the networks.

Like I said earlier, yeah. I think in terms of larger cultural impact Simpsons wins. Like I said, everyone I knew talked about Who Shot Mr. Burns. Maybe it was my age but Seinfeld was never like that for us. When I talk about Seinfeld's impact, I'm mostly talking about TV.

Quote from: agrajag on August 14, 2017, 01:31:16 PM
It's weird to see Himuro espouse Seinfeld as "inspired sitcom X more than the Simpsons" when the Simpson's was a completely different animal altogether. The Simpsons paved the way for King of the Hill, Family Guy, South Park, Futurama, American Dad...

Those are mostly cartoons, though, and feel like they follow a very set formula. In many ways The Simpsons feels like it harped on the old sitcom thing, with the dumb dad, the capable wife, and the bad son. Then you've got Seinfeld with its group of single 30 somethings who just don't give a shit. For me it's just a more refreshing concept. What made Simpsons so unique was the content they'd show with that concept. They took something like the family unit family show and showed Marge thinking about cheating on Homer, for instance. It was also a very adult take on animation, which I value highly and will always be grateful for.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: CatsCatsCats on August 14, 2017, 02:53:29 PM: Apples >>>>>>>>> oranges
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 02:55:46 PM: yet orange juice >>>>> apple juice :mindblown
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 03:03:13 PM: Quote from: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 02:55:46 PM
yet orange juice >>>>> apple juice :mindblown

(http://i.imgur.com/lEBcJtz.gif)
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 03:26:53 PM: Quote from: Stro on August 14, 2017, 03:20:19 PM
The Simpsons always sucked, even it's peak is full of garbage. Fuck The Simpsons. Fuck fans of The Simpsons. Extra fuck UK fans of The Simpsons.

What is this awfulness!?!
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Tasty on August 14, 2017, 03:36:29 PM: Grape Juice da GOAT.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 04:30:33 PM: The point wasn't to label apples or oranges the GOAT fruit. It was just used as an example of apples vs orange. Jeez.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 05:21:31 PM: starting to also rethink my views on freedom of speech and essential nature of a hardline view of the First Amendment...
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 06:09:32 PM: So I googled "people who don't like Seinfeld" and got this.

http://m.neogaf.com/showthread.php?t=482920

:triggered
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 06:11:37 PM: I think there's actually been a bunch of anti-Seinfeld threads since then. Increasingly so as the forum got younger, were watching it after everything that came after and asking "what's the deal with Seinfeld?" (See what I did there. Call me Jerry.)

And it's almost always people watching it from the start.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: skullstorm on August 14, 2017, 06:12:33 PM: I've really been feeling nectarines lately but honey pomelos are truly GOAT tier if we want to go there. But nothing saves a hot summer's day like a really sweet watermelon :mouf

Oh yeah and I voted Seinfeld because it ended instead of sucking fucking ass for years and years. Love me some classic Simpsons tho.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: skullstorm on August 14, 2017, 06:16:12 PM: Quote from: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 06:11:37 PM
I think there's actually been a bunch of anti-Seinfeld threads since then. Increasingly so as the forum got younger, were watching it after everything that came after and asking "what's the deal with Seinfeld?" (See what I did there. Call me Jerry.)

And it's almost always people watching it from the start.

I've noticed that too, a bunch of shit people. You can't argue with stupid.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 06:16:19 PM: I used to not like Seinfeld but I honestly didn't give it an honest chance. I started watching Curb like in 2009 or something and all the Seinfeld references had my interest piqued and so I gave it a shot. Fell in love and I watched it from the start. I've noticed most who don't like it don't like because they've seen a single scene posted on YouTube or they walked in on someone watching it without seeing the set up. So they lack the context and just think it's not funny and don't give it a proper chance.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: benjipwns on August 14, 2017, 06:25:31 PM: one complaint I've seen increasingly is how the situations are contrived

like yeah, it's a tv show, a sitcom on top of that

reminds me of the story:
Quote
As Alexander explains in an interview for the Seinfeld DVD, during an early conversation with David, Alexander questioned a script, saying, "This could never happen to anyone, and even if it did, no human being would react like this." David replied, "What do you mean? This happened to me once, and this is exactly how I reacted."
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Stoney Mason on August 14, 2017, 07:16:48 PM: Both are great. The first 6 or 7 seasons of the The Simpsons are perfect. I wouldn't say that about seinfeld although it gets really great itself after a few seasons.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 14, 2017, 07:26:53 PM: Crazy article.

http://madamenoire.com/697539/whats-black-men-love-seinfeld/
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: hampster on August 14, 2017, 09:59:59 PM: This is basically an impossible question ??? My main exposure to both was watching them in syndication in the late 90s after high school. Those programming blocks everyday got me through some rough times. I'm going to give the edge to the Simpsons because while Seinfeld is great nothing has quite stuck with me like Bart struggling with procrastination when he needs to study for the history test to pass 4th grade. I'm in my mid 30s and that still hits way to close to home.

Plus Simpsons has some great music
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 16, 2017, 02:14:48 AM: Quote from: Jack Remington on August 14, 2017, 06:28:29 PM
I always just tell people to start from Season 3 of Seinfeld. Season 2 is good, but it's still not at GOAT level yet.

And miss out on the absolute television perfection that is the Chinese restaurant? I think not.

Quote from: Stoney Mason on August 14, 2017, 07:16:48 PM
Both are great. The first 6 or 7 seasons of the The Simpsons are perfect. I wouldn't say that about seinfeld although it gets really great itself after a few seasons.

Same could be and was indeed said of the Simpsons. To me, Seasons 1&2 of The Simpsons are completely unwatchable. And not in line tonally, in terms of jokes, content and animation as the next several seasons hailed as its best. On the other hand, I find the first season of Seinfeld a bit awkward with the writers and actors still in an unsure feeling-out process, but still enjoyable. A show with a lot of potential and funny moments, just far from GOAT level it would soon achieve.

So to me, it's really hard to justify placing The Simpsons above it. It has a far worse batting average. Seven or eight phenomenal seasons (give or take) out of 28. That just disqualifies it from the GOAT tv show conversation, imo. Now if the show ended after season 8 or even 9 or 10, that'd be another story.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 16, 2017, 10:43:56 AM: Quote from: Dufus on August 16, 2017, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: agrajag on August 16, 2017, 02:14:48 AM
To me, Seasons 1&2 of The Simpsons are completely unwatchable.

what the everliving fuck is wrong with you

season 2 has bart gets an F, oh brother where art thou and the treehouse of horror of season 2 has the one with the aliens which is funny as fuck

this shit show of a thread has gone on long enough

Ok, change that to Season 1 only. I couldn't remember if the show changed drastically after the first or second season.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 16, 2017, 12:16:22 PM: Quote from: Dufus on August 16, 2017, 10:40:30 AM
Quote from: agrajag on August 16, 2017, 02:14:48 AM
To me, Seasons 1&2 of The Simpsons are completely unwatchable.

what the everliving fuck is wrong with you

season 2 has bart gets an F, oh brother where art thou and the treehouse of horror of season 2 has the one with the aliens which is funny as fuck

this shit show of a thread has gone on long enough

How is it a shit show? I love Seinfeld; I love Simpsons. I wanted to know which people prefer because many of us love both.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: seagrams hotsauce on August 16, 2017, 02:59:31 PM: I'm surprised this is so close, as the Simpsons always seemed like the more popular show to me. They're both great, but I figured the Simpsons had broader appeal. I've been fooled into thinking the volume of gifs a show has on Twitter is proportional to it's popularity
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Stoney Mason on August 16, 2017, 04:41:15 PM: Quote from: seagrams hotsauce on August 16, 2017, 02:59:31 PM
I'm surprised this is so close, as the Simpsons always seemed like the more popular show to me. They're both great, but I figured the Simpsons had broader appeal. I've been fooled into thinking the volume of gifs a show has on Twitter is proportional to it's popularity

I think the gif thing is only because the show is still on going. Seinfeld is still probably the most critically beloved sitcom since it aired. It even put other great shows of its era in the graveyard. Cheers was an amazing show except for the last few years and nobody mentions it anymore because Seinfeld kind of became the defacto comedy king show.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 16, 2017, 07:06:37 PM: Cheers and Golden Girls were massive when I was a kid.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Tasty on August 16, 2017, 07:39:37 PM: This only serves to remind me Wrath is being a little bitch and won't come to Boston to go to Cheers with me.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
And also get molested by me.
[close]
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Tasty on August 16, 2017, 07:45:58 PM: Quote from: Exodust on August 16, 2017, 07:41:38 PM
You know I want to :-*

No, seriously. I'd love to go to Boston and hang out at the tacky tourist trap Cheers bar. Molestation is optional.

You'd have to come at least twice (:teehee) to go to both of them. I've only been to the "fake" one at Quincy Market, and I've been saving going to the "real" one until you're here. :-*
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Tasty on August 16, 2017, 07:49:11 PM: Quote from: Exodust on August 16, 2017, 07:48:19 PM
Aight, I'll let you know once i'm finally out of the anus of the earth that is Saudi.

Can't wait :tauntaun
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: agrajag on August 16, 2017, 07:50:47 PM: Real talk though, Friends is complete trash.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Tasty on August 16, 2017, 07:56:56 PM: Quote from: agrajag on August 16, 2017, 07:50:47 PM
Real talk though, Friends is complete trash.

Friends and HIMYM are palatable mainstream trash that's pretty decent popcorn entertainment.

(Come at me Wrath)
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Tasty on August 16, 2017, 08:03:42 PM: My BF likes Friends way more than Seinfeld and he hates Rick and Morty :-\
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Positive Touch on August 16, 2017, 08:28:59 PM: cheers fucking sucked what the hell is wrong with yall
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: VomKriege on August 17, 2017, 02:54:48 AM: Where's the option for The Wire ?
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: benjipwns on August 17, 2017, 12:45:02 PM: Quote from: Exodust on August 16, 2017, 08:01:29 PM
HIMYM is terrible. I'm not sure why I enjoyed it at the time, maybe it had something to do with the hook? But yeah, it's shit. And it's also kinda mazing how the show penetrated pop culture powerfully for a little while only to be completely forgotten now. Well, aside from how bad the ending was.
I actually kinda like the first two seasons, it's a lower key show, then it "flanderizes" extensively and becomes super self-referential and EVENTSSSSSS OMG DRAMA, and they all suffer massive Sitcom Wealth Inflation. At the start of the show Barney is the only one legitimately making bank. And there's really two sets of friends that are connected mostly via Marshall, not Ted, rather than them all being one cohesive group of cool buddies.

Also I want to say there were like actual other recurring characters on some level, like I think the bartender was more than set dressing and the people at work weren't guest stars of the week.

The show never really figured out how to actually have the characters age and develop appropriately. And the hook of the series forced Ted to stay trapped in amber as a character.

Quote from: Exodust on August 16, 2017, 07:28:04 PM
Cheers is/was definitely huge. Isn't it still the show with the most emmy awards? Cheers' finale had the highest ratings of any show not named MASH if I recall correctly.
Cheers and MASH have the most nominations, the most winners:
Quote
5 awards
Frasier (consecutive)
Modern Family (consecutive)

4 awards
All in the Family (3 consecutive)
Cheers (2 consecutive)

3 awards
30 Rock (consecutive)
The Dick Van Dyke Show (consecutive)
The Mary Tyler Moore Show (consecutive)
The Phil Silvers Show (consecutive)
Taxi (consecutive)

2 awards
Everybody Loves Raymond
Get Smart (consecutive)
The Golden Girls (consecutive)
I Love Lucy (consecutive)
The Jack Benny Program
Murphy Brown
Veep (consecutive)

The Golden Globes oddly have a very different list:
Quote
4 wins
All in the Family

3 wins
The Golden Girls
Sex and the City
Taxi

2 wins
Ally McBeal
Barney Miller
Desperate Housewives
Fame
Glee

Entourage actually is fifth all time for Golden Globe nominations. :lol

It's only been nominated three times by the Emmys which is way more appropriate.
Title: Re: Seinfeld vs The Simpsons
Post by: Himu on August 17, 2017, 12:51:54 PM: https://youtu.be/bdB3gZ-aVFk