THE BORE

General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: Shostakovich on May 30, 2019, 04:48:53 PM

Title: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Shostakovich on May 30, 2019, 04:48:53 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zymgtV99Rko

Tongue in cheek title. Damon Lindelof posted a long (five page!) letter on instagram about what he's planning on doing with the series (edit: in 2018). In short, he's not going to adapt the original comics because they're sacred and untouchable for him, they're set somewhere in the future. Original link (https://www.instagram.com/p/BjFsj6JHEdq/?utm_source=ig_embed) and I've transcribed it below, too, although personally reading the letter was a waste of time

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Dear Fans of Watchmen,

Hello there. My name is Damon Lindelof and I am a writer. I am also the unscrupulous bastard currently defiling something that you love.

But that's not all that I am.

I am a twelve-year old boy being handed the first two issues by my father. "You're not ready for this," he growls with a glint of mischief in his eye. My parents have recently divorced and he has gone rogue, so there I am in my bed, flashlight beam illuminating pages, watching the Comedian fall again and again and again. The old man was wrong. I am ready for this. Because this was written just for me.

I am thirty-eight. A man offers me the opportunity to adapt Watchmen for television. The filmed adaptation came out less than a year ago, but that doesn't matter. I tell him I am not interested and that perhaps he should let sleeping dogs lie with hopes they will eventually be run over by a car tire, bursting their stomachs. He does not get the reference.

I am watching my father haggle with a man in a wheelchair. I am fifteen years old and we are at a comic book convention in New York City, long before attending a comic book convention was something anyone wanting to ever have sex with another person would admit to. I definitely want to have sex with another person. My father finally harangues the merchant down to thirty dollars for a guaranteed authentic screenplay of Watchmen, soon to be a major motion picture! Now, he reads aloud from the script as "The Watchmen" battle terrorists at The Statue of Liberty. Something is wrong. The old man's brow furrows, scanning the text in a mixture of disappointment and rage, a child who has just been told that Santa didn't bring him presents this year, then robbed the hosue and beat up his parents. "What the fuck is this?" my father mutters. It is the first time he swears in front of me.

Another man offers me the opportunity to adapt Watchmen for television. I am forty now. I tell him someone else asked me to do this a year ago and I declined. He inquires as to why I said no. I tell him that Alan Moore has been consistently explicit in stating that Watchmen was written for a very specific medium and that medium is comics, comics that would be ruined should they be translated into moving images. The Another Man pauses for a moment, then responds - "Who's Alan Moore?"

I am twenty-three and living in Los Angeles. My father flies out from New Jersey for my birthday and gives me a present, a new edition of the "graphic novel" that is Watchmen. He explains to me that this is the publisher's way of retaining the rights to the characters. He tells me that Dan and Adrian and Jon and Walter and Laurie are all serfs, working the land for a Feudal Lord that will never grant them freedom. My father is more than a little drunk.. More so, he is a hypocrite for buying me the new edition. "I know, I know..." he says, that same mischievous glint from years ago obscured by now thicker lenses, "But it's so goddamned good."

Yet Another Man offers me the opportunity to adapt Watchmen for television. "Just a pilot," he says, "Let's not get ahead of ourselves." I am forty-three now and I am thinking about something I read about Orthodox Judaism. While most religions are cultivated by evangelizing and conversion, Orthodox Judaism doesn't solicit. If someone from another faith wishes to become an Orthodox Jew, they are rejected. If they are stubborn enough to ask again, they are denied even more harshly. But should they have the audacity to ask a third time? The door cracks open. And if they're willing to invest an immense amount of time and effort and sacrifice and faith, they are embraced into the fold. Why am I thinking about this? I have said no to Watchmen twice now. This makes me Orthodox Judaism. I crack the door. And now I'm a hypocrite too.

I am standing over my father's hospital bed. I am twenty-nine, the last age at which I will consider myself "young." The breathing tube was removed two hours ago and they said he wouldn't last longer than fifteen minutes. It's a cliché. I'm living a trope. He is unconscious and unable to impart final wisdom nor tell me he was proud all along, even though he never said it out loud. There is no beeping machine showing his weakening heartrate. My father is beyond machines. I hold his cool hand and try not to pray to God because he detested the very idea of God so instead I pray to his gods. I pray to Cthulhu. I pray to 42, the Eternal Cosmic Number. I pray to Dr. Manhattan, far away in a galaxy less complicated than this one. The television is on and the Lakers win the championship. My father never cared about basketball. He didn't even know the rules. When he dies, I finally understand that I don't know the rules either. No one does.

I am forty-five and I am writing a letter to the fans. The fans of Watchmen. It's unnecessarily wordy and an exercise in oversharing but nothing gets people on your side more than telling them about the moment your father died. Sharing such intimate details with strangers feels needy and pathetic and exploitative and yucky and necessary and freeing. I am also looking for an elegant way to escape from this device of quantum observance, a device appropriated from Mr. Moore so that I can speak to those fans from the bottom of my cold, thieving heart. Perhaps I could switch from referring to them in the third person and shift into the second, thus bringing them closer to the first?

Would that be amenable to you?

First and foremost, if you are angry that I'm working on Watchmen, I am sorry. You may be thinking I can't be that sorry or I wouldn't be doing it. I conede the point, but I hope it doesn't invalidate the apology, which I offer with sincerity and respect.

Respect. That's second and twicemost. I have an immense amount of respect for Alan Moore. He is an extraordinary talent of mythic proportion. I wrote him a letter, parts of which are not dissimilar to this one, because I owed him an explanation as to why I'm defying his wishes and to humbly ask him not to place a curse on me because he knows magic and apparently, he can do that. His response, or whether he responded at all, is between he and I. Suffice to say, even before I sent it, Mr. Moore had made it abundantly clear that he doesn't want anyone to "adapt" his work. To do so is hubris. Worse yet, it's unethical.

There are a million ways to rationalize unethical behavior - I could argue that Mr. Moore's partner, the brilliant artist, Dave Gibbons, is equally entitled to authorize access to his masterwork and that he has been kind enough to offer us his blessing to do so. Or could I offer that Mr. Moore cut his veined teeth on the creations of others; Batman, Superman, Captain Britain, Marvelman (he'll never be "Miracleman" to me), Swamp Thing and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, not to mention The Charlton characters upon whom his Watchmen characters are based... So am I not allowed to do the same?

No. I am not. I am not allowed. And yet...

I am compelled.

I am compelled despite the inevitable pushback and hatred I will understandbly receive for taking on this particular project. This ire will be maximally painful because of its source. That source being you.

The true fans.

I once said that if one were a true fan of something, they weren't allowed to hate it. A prominent writer took me to task for such heresy, arguing that just because one was the creator of a show, this did not permit them to pick and choose who was and wasn't a fan of it.

The writer went on to win a Pulitzer for television criticism. I went on to get snubbed by the Razzies for Prometheus.

As such, I concede this point, too. After all, even the most fervent lifelong fan of, oh, let's say the New York Jets, is allowed to shout at the top of his lungs, "YOU SUCK OH MY GOD YOU SUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!" and do so while wearing a replica Namath Jersey he purchased for an ungodly sum of money that may or may not have constituted his entire first paycheck on Nash Bridges. But the point.

The point is, you love Watchmen. That gives you the right to hate it, too. Because no matter what...

You're still true fans.

But to quote the immortal P.W. Herman...

"I know you are... But what am I?"

What am I?

I'm a true fan, too. And I'm not the only one.

What I love most about television is that the finished product is a result not of singular vision, but the collective experience of many brilliant minds. I have the pleasure of sitting in a Writers Room each and every day that is as diverse and combative as any I'e ever been a part of. In that room, Hetero White Men like myself are in the minority and as Watchmen is (incorrectly) assumed to be solely of our domain, understanding its potential through the perspectives of women, people of color, and the LGBTQ community has been as eye-opening as it has been exhilarating. We've committed to doing the same in front of and behind the camera. And every single person involved with this show absolutely adores Watchmen. But in the spirit of complete honesty, we also sorta want to... uh...

Disrupt it?

Except I hate that word because now it's not disruptive anymore. And how can I present as punk rock when I'm now cozy in bed, spooning with Warner Brothers, HBO and DC? Truth be told, everyone there, particularly Geoff Johns (who is as true fan as it gets) has been extraordinarily supportive. Sure, it's fun to kick around the comic corporate overlords for exploiting writers and artists, but we all know what happened to Jack Kirby and we're still first in line for every Marvel film. So... how do we answer the challenge of when it is appropriate to appropriate?

Which brings us to the most important part. Maybe the only part that really matters. Our creative intentions.

We have no desire to "adapt" the twelve issues Mr. Moore and Mr. Gibbons created thirty years ago. Those issues are sacred ground and they will not be retread nor recreated nor reproduced nor rebooted.

They will, however, be remixed. Because the bass lines in those familiar tracks are just too good and we'd be fools not to sample them. Those original twelve issues are our Old Testament. When the New Testament came along, it did not erase what came before it. Creation. The Garden of Eden. Abraham and Isaac. The Flood. It all happened. And so it will be with Watchmen. The Comedian died. Dan and Laurie fell in love. Ozymandias saved the world and Dr. Manhattan left it just after blowing Rorschach to pieces in the bitter cold of Antarctica.

To be clear. Watchmen is canon.

Just the way Mr. Moore wrote it, the way Mr. Gibbons drew it and the way brilliant John Higgins colored it.

But we are not making a "sequel" either. This story will be set in the world its creators painstakingly built... but in the tradition of the work that inspired it, this new story must be original. It has to vibrate with the seismic unpredictability of its own tectonic plates. It must ask new questions and explore the world through a fresh lens. Most importantly, it must be contemporary.

The Old Testament was specific to the Eighties of Reagan and Tatcher and Gorbachev... ours needs to resonate with the frequency of Trump and May and Putin and the horse that he rides around on, shirtless. And speaking of Horsemen, The End of The World is off the table (THE LEFTOVERS! NOW STREAMING ON HBO GO!) which means the heroes and villains -- as if the two are distinguishable -- are playing for different stakes entirely. The tone will be fresh and nasty and electric and absurd. Many describe Watchmen as "dark," but I've always loved its humor - worshipping at the altar of the genre whilst simultaneously trolling it. As such...

Some of the characters will be unknown. New faces. New masks to cover them. We also intend to revisit the past century of Costumed Adventuring through a surprising, yet familiar set of eyes... and it is here where we'll be taking our greatest risks. Risk is imperative. I need the feeling in my stomach  before I leap from a great height without knowing the depth of the water below. If my body should shatter upon impact, at least it was in pursuit of glory. And let's be honest... Isn't there a small part of you that wants to see me explode like a fleshy watermelon?

But hopefully, there's also a part that wants to experience something sort of amazing. As for what I want? I want your validation. I also want not to want it. I've given up the opioid highs of Twitter, but continue to score my methadone in the threads of Reddit and the hot takes of morning-after recappers. I'll be reading and watching and listening to what you have to say because even though I wish I didn't...

I deeply care about what you think.

Which brings us, Thank God, to the end of this missive. Endings. I'm GREAT at them.

A wise, blue man once said that nothing ever ends.

But maybe he wasn't wise. Maybe he was just scared and alone and sad that he would outlive everything and everyone he ever loved. So I hope this isn't the last time we correspond, fellow fans... after all, it's just a pilot and we don't want to get ahead of ourselves. But maybe... if everything works out the way I hope it does... and if your'e willing to give me a chance, it's not the end at all...

It's the beginning?

With Respectful Hubris,

Damon
[close]

selected quote:
Quote
The Old Testament was specific to the Eighties of Reagan and Tatcher and Gorbachev... ours needs to resonate with the frequency of Trump and May and Putin and the horse that he rides around on, shirtless.
:yuck
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on May 30, 2019, 04:55:21 PM
Fucking up Watchmen

 :nope

Fucking up the Alien franchise

 :ohyeah
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Don Rumata on May 30, 2019, 05:01:25 PM
Fucking up Watchmen

 :nope

Fucking up the Alien franchise


 :ohyeah
Don't bring James Cameron into this.  8)
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: benjipwns on May 30, 2019, 05:06:57 PM
Quote
Respect. That's second and twicemost. I have an immense amount of respect for Alan Moore. He is an extraordinary talent of mythic proportion. I wrote him a letter, parts of which are not dissimilar to this one, because I owed him an explanation as to why I'm defying his wishes and to humbly ask him not to place a curse on me because he knows magic and apparently, he can do that. His response, or whether he responded at all, is between he and I. Suffice to say, even before I sent it, Mr. Moore had made it abundantly clear that he doesn't want anyone to "adapt" his work. To do so is hubris. Worse yet, it's unethical.

There are a million ways to rationalize unethical behavior - I could argue that Mr. Moore's partner, the brilliant artist, Dave Gibbons, is equally entitled to authorize access to his masterwork and that he has been kind enough to offer us his blessing to do so. Or could I offer that Mr. Moore cut his veined teeth on the creations of others; Batman, Superman, Captain Britain, Marvelman (he'll never be "Miracleman" to me), Swamp Thing and The League of Extraordinary Gentlemen, not to mention The Charlton characters upon whom his Watchmen characters are based... So am I not allowed to do the same?

No. I am not. I am not allowed. And yet...

I am compelled.

I am compelled despite the inevitable pushback and hatred I will understandbly receive for taking on this particular project. This ire will be maximally painful because of its source. That source being you.

The true fans.

I once said that if one were a true fan of something, they weren't allowed to hate it. A prominent writer took me to task for such heresy, arguing that just because one was the creator of a show, this did not permit them to pick and choose who was and wasn't a fan of it.

The writer went on to win a Pulitzer for television criticism. I went on to get snubbed by the Razzies for Prometheus.

As such, I concede this point, too. After all, even the most fervent lifelong fan of, oh, let's say the New York Jets, is allowed to shout at the top of his lungs, "YOU SUCK OH MY GOD YOU SUUUUUUUUUCK!!!!!!" and do so while wearing a replica Namath Jersey he purchased for an ungodly sum of money that may or may not have constituted his entire first paycheck on Nash Bridges. But the point.

The point is, you love Watchmen. That gives you the right to hate it, too. Because no matter what...

You're still true fans.

But to quote the immortal P.W. Herman...

"I know you are... But what am I?"

What am I?

I'm a true fan, too. And I'm not the only one.

What I love most about television is that the finished product is a result not of singular vision, but the collective experience of many brilliant minds. I have the pleasure of sitting in a Writers Room each and every day that is as diverse and combative as any I'e ever been a part of. In that room, Hetero White Men like myself are in the minority and as Watchmen is (incorrectly) assumed to be solely of our domain, understanding its potential through the perspectives of women, people of color, and the LGBTQ community has been as eye-opening as it has been exhilarating. We've committed to doing the same in front of and behind the camera. And every single person involved with this show absolutely adores Watchmen. But in the spirit of complete honesty, we also sorta want to... uh...

Disrupt it?

Except I hate that word because now it's not disruptive anymore. And how can I present as punk rock when I'm now cozy in bed, spooning with Warner Brothers, HBO and DC? Truth be told, everyone there, particularly Geoff Johns (who is as true fan as it gets) has been extraordinarily supportive. Sure, it's fun to kick around the comic corporate overlords for exploiting writers and artists, but we all know what happened to Jack Kirby and we're still first in line for every Marvel film. So... how do we answer the challenge of when it is appropriate to appropriate?
jfc
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: headwalk on May 30, 2019, 05:17:17 PM
i wonder if he read this after he posted it and discovered what a massive wanker he is.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Akala on May 30, 2019, 05:29:15 PM
 :yuck
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Rufus on May 30, 2019, 06:01:45 PM
If you can stand his tedious style, Film Critic Hulk had some things to say about Lindelof that resonated with me... 6-fucking years ago? Fuck.
https://birthmoviesdeath.com/2012/06/17/film-crit-hulk-smash-the-damon-lindleof-intervention

Quote
SO OF COURSE PROMETHEUS TAKES AIM AT THOSE IDEAS, BUT EVERY SINGLE ONE OF THEM IS GIVEN A BRIEF WHISPER OF MENTIONING AND... NOT MUCH MORE THAN THAT. SERIOUSLY, IT'S JUST LIP SERVICE. AND WORSE, NONE OF THESE THEMES ACTUALLY PLAY INTO ANYONE'S STORY.... THINK ABOUT THAT. THESE CRITICAL NOTIONS IN A MOVIE ABOUT CREATION ARE PRETTY MUCH LEFT TO BEING A BRIEF, UNREFERENCED OBSTACLE OR JUST A MATTER OF DISCUSSION ALONE... WHICH IS A FUNDAMENTAL VIOLATION OF "SHOW DON'T TELL." BUT FAR MORE PROBLEMATIC THAN THE FACT THAT THESE THEMES ARE BOILED DOWN TO VERBAL DISCUSSIONS, IT'S THAT THE CONVERSATION THAT TAKES SHAPE IS NOT ONE THAT FEATURES NUANCE OR UNDERSTANDING ON THE GRAY SCALE. IN FACT, THE ENTIRE THEMATIC APPROACH OF THE FILM IS BOILED DOWN TO A LONG SERIOUS OF EXCHANGES THAT LOOK EXACTLY LIKE THIS:

PERSON A: "I want to know the answers!"

PERSON B: "You can't know the answers!"

... SOUND FAMILIAR?

JESUS FLIPPIN' FUDGE DAMON! ARE YOU KIDDING HULK? YOU WENT BACK TO THAT DYNAMIC? THE ONE THAT YOU ALREADY DRAGGED OUT AND EXHAUSTED? THE ONE THAT WAS SO BLACK AND WHITE IT DROVE PEOPLE CRAZY? ARE WE SERIOUSLY GOING TO KEEP DOING THIS? YOUR OBSESSION WITH THIS PARTICULAR ASPECT OF FAITH IS NOW, OFFICIALLY, A PROBLEM. YOU HAVE ENTRENCHED YOURSELF IN THE DICHOTOMY BETWEEN ADORING THE POWER AND ALLURE OF THE UNKNOWN, BUT ALSO DWELLING ON THIS WEIRD HATE/ACCEPTANCE OF ITS CRUELTY. AND YOU JUST CAN'T SEEM TO ESCAPE IT. YES, YOU SEEMED TO COVER THIS ARENA OF FAITH RATHER WELL IN THE EARLY STAGES OF LOST, WHERE IT WAS GROUNDED IN YOUR OWN DISTINCT MYTHOS AND SCIENTIFIC CONVENTIONS. IT ALSO HELPED THAT THE WRITING AT LEAST WAFFLED BETWEEN POIGNANT SUBTEXT AND SOME ON-THE-NOSE SYMBOLISM, BUT NOW... NOW THE ENTIRE SITUATION HAS SLID RIGHT INTO OUTRIGHT, CRIPPLING FIXATION.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Don Rumata on May 30, 2019, 06:14:58 PM
If you can stand his tedious style,
I really can't.

Though you don't need a particularly deep analysis to see how bad the screenplay in Prometheus is, and i say this as a fan of all Alien movies (including Prometheus).
I'll say i liked the direction Scott went with in general, though the execution was lacking.
It would take some relatively minor changes to make Prometheus and Covenant into really good cosmic horror movies, in my opinion.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on May 30, 2019, 06:43:36 PM
LOL at that all-caps blog post, what a butthurt simp.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on May 30, 2019, 06:45:10 PM
There was an abbreviated parody Prometheus script a while back that had me laughing my ass off, particularly the line "With the alien extraction complete, Shaw exits the room and stumbles into the third act." :lol
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Rufus on May 30, 2019, 06:48:31 PM
tl;dr Expect a variation of "but you CAN'T know the truth" from this one.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Don Rumata on May 30, 2019, 07:36:41 PM
tl;dr Expect a variation of "but you CAN'T know the truth" from this one.
Twin Peaks, the best TV show ever made, thrives on that premise.
Storytelling is all about bamboozlement, anyway.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Steve Contra on May 30, 2019, 07:38:56 PM
The Leftovers was the best show on tv since Enlightened. I'm pumped.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: TEEEPO on May 30, 2019, 07:41:52 PM
and here i was about to ask why i should care about the leftovers
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nola on May 30, 2019, 07:51:25 PM
The Leftovers was the best show on tv since Enlightened. I'm pumped.

Still need to get around to watching that.

Just hard to work myself up to get past two themes that don't ever really intrigue me: eye-rolling biblical premises/themes and seemingly a lot of intense grief porn.

But it's praise like that about the show that prevents me from totally writing off what so far looks mixed at best on the Watchmen stuff.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on May 31, 2019, 01:04:23 AM
Have you guys been reading how Dr. Manbluepenis has been fucking up the DC universe?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on July 29, 2019, 11:43:17 PM
Eh.

That honestly made me slightly less interested in the show than the teaser.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: benjipwns on July 29, 2019, 11:53:39 PM
i don't get it
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on July 30, 2019, 12:03:56 AM
One thing they could do to get me to watch this is saying both Before Watchmen and Doomsday Clock are canon to the show.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: benjipwns on July 30, 2019, 12:05:56 AM
iirc not even Watchmen is canon to the show
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on July 30, 2019, 12:08:03 AM
iirc not even Watchmen is canon to the show

The movie or the book?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: benjipwns on July 30, 2019, 12:08:21 AM
both
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on July 30, 2019, 12:09:25 AM
both

That's not what I read.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: benjipwns on July 30, 2019, 12:13:58 AM
trust, but verify
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on July 30, 2019, 12:24:35 AM
This is gonna be such a train wreck.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on August 21, 2019, 09:08:25 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vVpBZ2Tzglg

"Veidt confirmed dead"

Takes place in the Watchmenverse that Veidt left behind in Doomsday Clock CONFIRMED #itsallconnected #unitetheseven
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on August 21, 2019, 09:15:57 PM
Lol I watched the same trailer twice and thought it was a new one, apologies everyone.

Dunno why DC just added this to their account tho.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Great Rumbler on September 13, 2019, 10:56:31 PM
Tulsa? Weird flex but okay.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: kingv on September 13, 2019, 11:23:55 PM
What does this even have to do with the watchmen except for the costumes?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: HardcoreRetro on September 14, 2019, 04:41:11 AM
Since TLDR, I'm gonna guess the screed comes down to:

"I'm gonna adapt it to modern politics. The Watchmen name is basically just brand recognition."
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on September 14, 2019, 11:03:29 AM
It looks stunning, hopefully the story holds up just as well.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on September 14, 2019, 07:07:01 PM
It's got Space Squids, Laurie, Veidt, Owl Ship, Dr. Manhattan, Robert Redford as president, etc.

Tulsa? Weird flex but okay.

Lindelof is apparently using Tulsa to tie it into the Tulsa Race Riot of 1921. I'm impressed he's doing that since no one seems to give a fuck that it ever happened.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Yeti on September 14, 2019, 08:12:36 PM
https://youtu.be/YDDHHrt6l4w

Every time there’s a Watchmen reboot this should be posted
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on October 21, 2019, 02:42:21 AM
So uh, how about that first episode?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: jorma on October 21, 2019, 07:16:01 AM
Watchmen is such a god awful franchise, i will probably skip this even though Lindelof has made some goat tier stuff.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: ToxicAdam on October 21, 2019, 09:11:16 AM
NY Times review headline: Exhilarating confusion.

Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Great Rumbler on October 21, 2019, 09:13:58 AM
NY Times review headline: Exhilarating confusion.

Yep, sounds like a Lindelof production.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 21, 2019, 09:46:49 AM
*lindoff motion*
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Coffee Dog on October 21, 2019, 10:09:53 AM
Literally every attempt to prequel/sequel this book has been fucking embarrassing. I don't expect this to be any different than the prequel comic where the comedian flings shit like an ape or that eternally long doomsday clock shitshow where moustache twirler doctor manhattan strung up Jor-El in a clockwork orange chair to make him an edgelord
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on October 21, 2019, 11:59:48 AM
The first episode was fantastic, but damn I wish they would've made the premiere two hours.

Nerds are the worst sometimes. Do you want your hand held and everything explained immediately?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on October 21, 2019, 04:11:47 PM
You first.

Okay I'll bite. It was a lot more action packed than I thought it would be and a lot less on build up and world building. The trailers we've seen so far showed a lot of what happens in this episode, so you don't have to worry about having seen the whole season via trailers already. The show does not hold your hand so if you don't know who the fuck the Watchmen were or what happened then you might be fairly lost. Despite starting with a flash back the show is almost completely unconcerned with telling you a lot of back story. You get maybe a minute of that when one of the main characters explains to a class of elementary school kids why she is "retired" as a police officer and now owns a bakery that is seemingly never gonna open.

The A plot line is about retired cop lady in Tulsa Oklahoma (who also is from the great state of Vietnam!), who is actually not retired and is a bad ass masked police vigilante. Apparently after 3 years of peace a white supremacist group known as the 7th Cavalry has decided to resurface for unknown reasons. The 7th Cavalry wear Rorschach masks. Also they have a fascination with collecting an old type of watch battery that are hard to come by and used to give people cancer. Cars are all electric now. Most police wear yellow mouth covers to protect their identities, but there are also a good 4 or 5 with special masks/costumes, including the incredibly unsubtle Russian guy in red and yellow named Red. Oh and Robert Redford is president and he gave out Redforations to African Americans. Also police lady has 3 kids, 2 of whom I remember seeing, that are clearly not her biological children. At one point the sky opens up and weird squid stuff rains down on people. This is apparently a common occurrence.

The B plot line is mostly just a few weird scenes with a guy who is almost certainly Adrian Veidt (despite a newspaper saying he is dead) living at some kind of mansion with some weird servants. He is writing a play about a Watchmaker. One of his servants gives him a reassembled watch. Also they give him a cake that is apparently awful in celebration of his "anniversary" (which he has forgotten) and what this anniversary is is not explained.

The C plotline is the flashback to 1920s Tulsa getting shot up by white supremacists and a little boy who escapes. In the present he is an old man in a wheel chair who knows things about what's going on and the cop lady. He was likely a vigilante.

Anywho, it did feel like maybe it should've been 2 hours or they should've shown 2 episodes. The whole thing went pretty fast and was a lot more action oriented. The "this season on Watchmen" trailer afterwards made it seem like there's a lot more to be introduced and the scope will expand. The show is peppered with references and easter eggs to the comic (the police chief has an Owl mug and a copy of Under the hood on his desk for example). As a pilot it kind of leaves you wondering why you should want to watch more since they didn't establish any of the stuff that the post episode trailer shows as the more compelling elements. But I guess if you want to see some rednecks shoot up a bunch of cows with a mounted machine gun, it does have that!
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on October 28, 2019, 01:01:42 AM
More world building in episode 2, less full on action. More questions added to the plot and only minor things answered so far.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: kingv on October 28, 2019, 01:47:26 AM
You’re expecting Lindelof to... answer questions?

It’s 2019 and I still don’t know what the Flame does.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on October 29, 2019, 03:09:12 AM
You’re expecting Lindelof to... answer questions?

It’s 2019 and I still don’t know what the Flame does.

Fair. I thought about the episode a bit more during my drive to work this morning. It did answer some questions, it just opened up like two more for every question it answered.

I will say I think the show understands the source material better than the movie did, and they also have a meta "show within a show" about masked vigilantes that is obviously a meta commentary on many things (and either an homage or parody of the Zach Snyder style of superhero movies).

There's a lot about this show that feels like it is almost trying too hard to be cute with the mystery but I also wonder if they're trying to balance the slow burn of "a vast an insidious conspiracy" with people's expectations of a big budget HBO show.

Regina King is a pretty great actress though.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on October 29, 2019, 05:59:49 PM
Impressed so far interesting enough for me to keep watching at least.

It sorta mimics the movie in a strange way
spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you consider Judd "the comedian" and his murder and history the "catalyst"' of what comes next
[close]

As for Veidt
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It is not yet established that it is Veidt (but it probably is). It is also not established if the events are happening in the past(which would explain his death)/present or future.
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on October 29, 2019, 11:57:40 PM
Impressed so far interesting enough for me to keep watching at least.

It sorta mimics the movie in a strange way
spoiler (click to show/hide)
If you consider Judd "the comedian" and his murder and history the "catalyst"' of what comes next
[close]

As for Veidt
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It is not yet established that it is Veidt (but it probably is). It is also not established if the events are happening in the past(which would explain his death)/present or future.
[close]

Yeah the Man in the manor subplot is so fucking weird and there's a LOT of assumptions about who he is. Whoever he is he is clearly obsessed with Dr Manhattan's origin.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on October 30, 2019, 12:10:56 AM
I enjoyed the first two episodes, I’ll keep watching.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on October 30, 2019, 08:35:12 PM
I tried watching this, it's fucking boring.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on October 30, 2019, 08:40:01 PM
Please remove the corpse of Mr agrajag
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on October 30, 2019, 08:58:39 PM
I don't know what that means. Is that a line from the show?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on October 30, 2019, 11:49:05 PM
If you are into the show, the Petepedia stuff is super good to read: https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 04, 2019, 03:43:50 PM
Silk Specter's giant blue dildo. :lol Sorry Nite Owl, once you've gone blue, nothing else will do.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 04, 2019, 03:44:45 PM
ok I rewatched the first two episodes and actually paid attention this time, it's not bad. Will watch more.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 04, 2019, 03:46:21 PM
The third episode is the most Watchmen-y episode so far.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 04, 2019, 03:48:12 PM
The third episode is the most Watchmen-y episode so far.

didn't know it came out already, what nights is it on? Will have to watch it tonight.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 04, 2019, 04:07:36 PM
Sunday nights
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on November 10, 2019, 11:31:49 PM
This show just keeps getting weirder.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on November 11, 2019, 12:19:28 AM
this show is fucking shit, why is it even a watchmen show lmao
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 11, 2019, 01:17:00 AM
Because Jeremy Irons is catching babies in lobster traps and then putting them in a microwave. :rejoice
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Leadbelly on November 11, 2019, 11:31:44 PM
Okay. You people have intrigued me enough to actually watch it.

I have to say, this review didn't fill me with much confidence in it actually feeling like the Watchmen world though. He makes it sound like Lindelof is using the world simply to do something else. We'll see on that. And in that sense, it is not necessarily about whether it turns out good or bad, it is whether it feels authentic or not.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8zV9vqNeo8w

this show is fucking shit, why is it even a watchmen show lmao

hmmm... I will watch it and see for myself, but 'why is it even a Watchmen show' isn't a good sign. lol
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on November 11, 2019, 11:38:34 PM
This is Lindelof show 13 photogenic boogaloo with the pre-order Watchmen skin DLC, it's fuckall like Watchmen.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Leadbelly on November 12, 2019, 12:27:08 PM
I'll watch it anyway and see what I think of it.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 12, 2019, 12:58:51 PM
I've enjoyed it so far. I like that it connects to the original Watchmen without it being slavishly devoted to the source material. Episode 4 was probably the weakest episode, but still worth it for Jeremy Irons doing weird shit.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: BlueTsunami on November 12, 2019, 02:21:57 PM
Willingly and knowingly watching Lindelof in 2019 :yikes

The Leftovers was good  :camby

He seems to work better with tighter narratives than serial plots aimed at filling out 20 or more episodes (ala Lost)

I really like this take on Watchmen. I agree it's not religiously beholden to the source but builds on what was setup by Rorschach and the major events that changed the course of that alt universe. Not only that but it really leverages the weirdness of that universe to good effect. Stir that in with an awesome score and strong performances. It's fucking awesome.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on November 13, 2019, 06:53:02 PM
Watched ep 4.

This is some crazy shit so I'm still game.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
So Veidt is held prisoner? Possibly also due to 'some deal' with the Vietnamese lady? Gonna be lit when he breaks out and returns.
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: toku on November 13, 2019, 07:10:02 PM
I'm digging it. Great score.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 13, 2019, 08:16:39 PM
I'm digging it. Great score.

Trent Reznor, baby!
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: toku on November 13, 2019, 08:33:20 PM
Yea his knack for creating a kind of creeping tension in his music really lends itself to film/tv scoring. Glad he's leaned into it.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 17, 2019, 09:38:38 PM
Being butt naked in Hoboken during Squidfall while Careless Whisper is playing. :lawd

Better than Snyder’s Watchmen confirmed.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on November 17, 2019, 09:44:08 PM
I'm digging it. Great score.

Trent Reznor, baby!

Shit, I have to watch this now.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on November 17, 2019, 11:47:39 PM
There's nothing coherent going on here, dont bother, watch a clip show.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: TVC15 on November 18, 2019, 01:40:09 AM
I’m lovin it
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on November 18, 2019, 03:06:38 AM
Didn't they'd full on show the
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Squid
[close]
but they did. So far like every fan theory has come true fairly quickly.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: BlueTsunami on November 18, 2019, 10:58:56 AM
Yeah I've stopped reading theories cause they're pretty much spoilers at this point.

Episode 5 was so damn good. I also love the Looking Glass character. The world keeps knocking him around.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on November 18, 2019, 01:39:00 PM
I hope

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looking Glass isn't dead. He's too good to kill off right after he got a good character-centric episode.  :'( At any rate, he won't be in the next episode much, since it seems like it's mostly going to be a flashback episode centered around Angela OD'ing on her grandpa's Nostalgia.
[close]
Title: Lindelof fucking gets Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on November 18, 2019, 03:22:42 PM
Really digging this show.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on November 18, 2019, 11:14:11 PM
I hope

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Looking Glass isn't dead. He's too good to kill off right after he got a good character-centric episode.  :'( At any rate, he won't be in the next episode much, since it seems like it's mostly going to be a flashback episode centered around Angela OD'ing on her grandpa's Nostalgia.
[close]

Yeah I feel the same. Finally a character who isn't a complete shit head and then... yeah.

There's at least 4 major power players on this show right now whose agendas haven't been fully revealed:

Lady Trieu
Will Reeves
Senator Keene
Adrian Veidt
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on November 19, 2019, 05:13:27 PM
All these fools will be so dead when Veidt gets his revenge on them  :lawd

You are all forgetting the biggest power of all though, Dr. Manhattan.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on November 19, 2019, 05:30:54 PM
All these fools will be so dead when Veidt gets his revenge on them  :lawd

You are all forgetting the biggest power of all though, Dr. Manhattan.

Doc's in the DC multiverse fucking that up. Then again, he can be in two places at once.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on November 25, 2019, 11:22:28 PM
So one of the main aspects of this show is finding out the whole backstory to Hooded Justice, the first masked vigilante of the Watchmen world. This episode filled in the back story and provided pay off for all the fictionalized versions of HJ's backstory shown on the show inside the show. Making him a rage filled gay (bi?) black man who has been trying to take down the KKK (while also keeping German WW1 propaganda in his pocket) is certainly a very loaded choice.

Next week I assume we find out some of Lady Trieu's plan, and then that leaves us two episode to see if there is any kind of resolution to any of this build up, or if they intend to prolong it in some way (lulz its Lindelof of course they will prolong it).

All these fools will be so dead when Veidt gets his revenge on them  :lawd

You are all forgetting the biggest power of all though, Dr. Manhattan.

I did indeed forget Manhattan. And the pre-season teaser makes it seem like he is gonna show up at some point.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on November 26, 2019, 03:32:13 PM
That latest episode was crazy in all the good ways.

Too bad there was no Veidt though but that might allow for a time skip to get him somewhere else fast.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on November 26, 2019, 06:23:16 PM
Catching up, on episode 3. Been a long time since I've been this excited to jump on a new show.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Ghoul on November 26, 2019, 06:43:11 PM
Just watched the latest, this show is so abstract I actually love it.

Next week is going to be amazing!
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on November 26, 2019, 06:48:52 PM
This is the first time I watched a show in a long time that after the first 2 episodes I couldn't tell what was going to happen next.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 27, 2019, 10:18:34 PM
this show is bonkers
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: remy on November 27, 2019, 10:25:38 PM
I haven't watched the show yet butI raed about the Hooded Justice thing actually reads as kinda smart to me. I never really thought about the context of the noose +hood + never showing his face thing, and apart from that one close up where his eyes are white him being black kinda makes sense.

It even puts a new spin on them killing that random strongman and makes it seem even more ridiculous than it already was.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 27, 2019, 10:56:19 PM
hooded justice is gonna be her grandfather
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 28, 2019, 12:29:54 AM
for the record I wrote that just before firing up ep6
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: kingv on November 30, 2019, 04:51:44 PM
Been watching this over Thanksgiving and it’s way better than expected. I didn’t expect it to be very referential to the comics based on the trailer, but frankly, I’m almost surprised this show got made the way it is. Ok not sure how you could even follow it without having read the books.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on November 30, 2019, 05:53:53 PM
Been watching this over Thanksgiving and it’s way better than expected. I didn’t expect it to be very referential to the comics based on the trailer, but frankly, I’m almost surprised this show got made the way it is. Ok not sure how you could even follow it without having read the books.

I didn't and I like it just fine. I don't mind being slightly lost in the backstory
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 01, 2019, 05:31:22 AM
Just got around to watching Ep 6, and whew lads. :whew

I don’t know if they can stick the landing, but it’s been a helluva ride.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 01, 2019, 11:02:23 AM
it's only 10 episodes, no further seasons planned?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 01, 2019, 11:07:47 AM
it's only 10 episodes, no further seasons planned?

Further seasons possible, but Lindelof will be stepping away as he feels he's told "his story" in season one.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 01, 2019, 02:59:52 PM
it's only 10 episodes, no further seasons planned?

9 episodes :noah
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 01, 2019, 03:06:01 PM
damn, only 3 left. How the hell are they gonna wrap up the Ozymandias craziness.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 01, 2019, 05:33:44 PM
Lol Doomsday Clock #12 hits three days after the finale of this. :lol Universe can be weird sometimes.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Yeti on December 01, 2019, 05:50:41 PM
I thought Doomsday Clock was from a year ago? I haven’t read it, or the Watchmen 2 comics they did a while ago. Have anything from them wound up in the tv show?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 01, 2019, 06:05:32 PM
I thought Doomsday Clock was from a year ago? I haven’t read it, or the Watchmen 2 comics they did a while ago. Have anything from them wound up in the tv show?

I've tried my hardest and haven't been able to confirm or deconfirm whether anything in Before Watchmen is canon to the show.

Doomsday Clock was supposed to end a year ago but each issue was delayed to the point the finale is coming out this month, when the series started in November 2017.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 01, 2019, 10:09:47 PM
Scratch that, Doc Manhattan fleeing the Third Reich is straight from Before Watchmen, so I guess they are including that in canon too.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 01, 2019, 10:27:29 PM
Yo the music this ep :lawd

That ending :leon

Lots of shit outright confirmed this episode :rejoice

That cab scene got to me :rkelly
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: kingv on December 01, 2019, 10:44:06 PM
I thought Doomsday Clock was from a year ago? I haven’t read it, or the Watchmen 2 comics they did a while ago. Have anything from them wound up in the tv show?

I've tried my hardest and haven't been able to confirm or deconfirm whether anything in Before Watchmen is canon to the show.

Doomsday Clock was supposed to end a year ago but each issue was delayed to the point the finale is coming out this month, when the series started in November 2017.

It’s been a long time since I read the prequels... but I feel like the hooded justice stuff might outright contradict them at least in part.

I don’t really see how they wrap it up in 2 episodes.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 01, 2019, 10:47:03 PM
https://youtu.be/c5BL4RNFr58
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 02, 2019, 12:44:07 AM
this shit was cray and I fucking loved it

Lindelof > haters
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: TVC15 on December 02, 2019, 12:46:55 AM
Is there a prevailing theory on how Veidt is going to tie into the main story, or is his whole Dr. Manhattan prison thing still looking like a tangent like the raft story in the comics?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 02, 2019, 12:47:47 AM
When the elephant showed up, I was like, okay yep. Just hook this into my veins (figuratively). :rejoice
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 02, 2019, 12:52:21 AM
was the Game Warden one of the clones, I couldn't tell
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: BlueTsunami on December 02, 2019, 02:26:39 AM
was the Game Warden one of the clones, I couldn't tell

He is, which makes the absurdity of it all that much better

It's like a literal guilt trip to go along with the literal elephant
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 07:18:58 AM
Lol someone on Reddit guessed
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Doc Manhatten two weeks ago by comparing the knuckle patterns of Doc picking up the mask in the trailer to the actor playing Cal. :lol
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 02, 2019, 08:34:36 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
It explains why Agent Blake was so horny for Cal, she subconsciously sensed that blue d. ;)
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 02, 2019, 08:41:38 AM
Ozymandias is trapped on Mars
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 02, 2019, 08:48:02 AM
What if the real Ozymadias was the works we looked upon and despaired along the way?
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 02, 2019, 08:52:06 AM
I mean, obviously for drama's sake, the Seventh Kavalry is going to be able to hurt Dr Manhattan in some way and make him vulnerable, but it's hard imagining that they could actually do something to him, he's practically a god. Kind of like when Ozy tried to zap him with some death rays or something in the movie (does he do that in the book, I haven't read it)
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 09:22:31 AM
https://www.reddit.com/r/Watchmen/comments/dwlub7/i_believe_we_have_already_seen_doctor_manhattan/

(https://i.imgur.com/g9T3rRb.png)

Reddit be cray
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 02, 2019, 09:24:03 AM
they're wasting their talents not catching serial killers an shit
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 02, 2019, 09:28:28 AM
the absolute mad lad
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 10:32:22 AM
they're wasting their talents not catching serial killers an shit

Ehhh remember when 4chan thought they ID'd the Boston Bomber? :doge
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 02, 2019, 11:28:48 AM
It’s crazy that after an episode with tons of wild revelations and intersecting plot lines, the Veidt subplot just absolutely refuses to have any relevance to anything else. It seems like some wild shit is about to go down after his last appearance revealing that he’s trapped on Europa, but then his scene in this episode was literally just a fart joke. :lol
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 11:46:27 AM
The big key that stood out to me with Veidt is that the trial has been going on for a full year. That plus the birthday cake markers in an earlier ep makes me think

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ozy's stuff is happening years before the main show, but it'll catch up in the last episode or two. Which, hey, is where we're at!
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 11:47:04 AM
Also zero progression on Looking Glass this ep either. :thinking
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 02, 2019, 12:13:31 PM
At least we know he's not dead (probably).

spoiler (click to show/hide)
I wonder if Veidt could be Lady Trieu's father? She gives that cryptic "He'll be here soon" when asked about her father. Or it could be Doctor Manhattan, I guess anything's possible at this point.  :o
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 02, 2019, 01:11:40 PM
she does have that statue of him
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 08:52:26 PM
https://www.hollywoodreporter.com/live-feed/watchmen-season-1-episode-7-an-almost-religious-awe-explained-1258567

100% confirmed no
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Night Owl/Dan Dreiburg.
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 02, 2019, 09:29:15 PM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wktrHpUcYjo
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on December 02, 2019, 11:52:15 PM
Is there a prevailing theory on how Veidt is going to tie into the main story, or is his whole Dr. Manhattan prison thing still looking like a tangent like the raft story in the comics?

Well he "disappeared" and was presumed dead and then Lady Trieu took over all of his holdings and accelerated her nutso plan. So I have to assume he somehow has dirt on her.

Peteypedia update:

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on December 02, 2019, 11:53:40 PM
they're wasting their talents not catching serial killers an shit
oh, but they did. They got him.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vw9zyxm860Q
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 03, 2019, 08:31:20 AM
Man, Angela listening to Laurie's message has a *completely* different context after seeing the episode's twist.

This show :lawd
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 03, 2019, 08:37:59 AM
Is there a prevailing theory on how Veidt is going to tie into the main story, or is his whole Dr. Manhattan prison thing still looking like a tangent like the raft story in the comics?

Well he "disappeared" and was presumed dead and then Lady Trieu took over all of his holdings and accelerated her nutso plan. So I have to assume he somehow has dirt on her.

Peteypedia update:

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

Peteypedia stuff is mostly pretty neutral but there are a couple big :thinking :thinking :thinking things that probably are spoilers.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
1. Trieu sent basically everyone in NY a free "newly legalized" HDTV. And she's working with Will, who has Mesmero tech. Hmm.

American Hero Story is also getting a lot of focus, gee wonder how that could tie that in?

2. In 2017 when Angela debuted as Sister Night, Will bought an old movie theater and started showing the blaxploitation movie of the same name every Sunday at midnight. It's likely he's been manipulating Angela this whole time without her knowledge, and that's how he/Trieu know about Cal/Manhatten.
[close]

Also, it seems likely Doc saved Angela during the White Night, which is how 7th Cavalry found out about him as well.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 05, 2019, 03:40:10 PM
Show is doing really well.

https://variety.com/2019/tv/news/hbo-watchmen-ratings-1203425067/

Quote
"According to HBO’s tallies, “Watchmen” is premium cable’s most popular new series of 2019, and HBO’s most-watched new series since “Big Little Lies.”

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wktrHpUcYjo (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wktrHpUcYjo)

Official:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=F4fQhHBuvc0
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 05, 2019, 03:43:12 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/3UT5KRM.png)

:dead
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on December 05, 2019, 05:01:49 PM
The big key that stood out to me with Veidt is that the trial has been going on for a full year. That plus the birthday cake markers in an earlier ep makes me think

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Ozy's stuff is happening years before the main show, but it'll catch up in the last episode or two. Which, hey, is where we're at!
[close]

Lindelof confirmed this on the official podcast.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Steve Contra on December 05, 2019, 08:24:34 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Veidt is what crash landed on the property lady Trieu bought I think. So he's already there working behind the scenes.
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: kingv on December 06, 2019, 01:45:16 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Veidt is what crash landed on the property lady Trieu bought I think. So he's already there working behind the scenes.
[close]

As far as I can tell they didn’t really explain where Veidt is or how he got there, right?

I think that theory makes sense though.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 08, 2019, 10:28:06 PM
God’s BBC :rejoice

Also, make sure you don’t miss the post-credit scene.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
To see more Jeremy Irons just futzing around
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 08, 2019, 11:37:57 PM
filler should definitely watch this episode
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 09, 2019, 08:54:40 AM
Three flashback heavy episodes in a row :kobeyuck
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 09, 2019, 08:58:29 AM
Still no Looking Glass :social2
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 09, 2019, 11:19:19 AM
God’s BBC :rejoice

Also, make sure you don’t miss the post-credit scene.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
To see more Jeremy Irons just futzing around
[close]

what was he
spoiler (click to show/hide)
doing with the horseshoe  ???
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on December 09, 2019, 11:21:05 AM
God’s BBC :rejoice

Also, make sure you don’t miss the post-credit scene.

spoiler (click to show/hide)
To see more Jeremy Irons just futzing around
[close]

what was he
spoiler (click to show/hide)
doing with the horseshoe  ???
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Digging out of his cell.
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 09, 2019, 11:24:51 AM
yeah but,ike, it seems like a very inefficient tool for that task. Why not
spoiler (click to show/hide)
slip a mini shovel in the cake?
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on December 09, 2019, 11:26:36 AM
yeah but,ike, it seems like a very inefficient tool for that task. Why not
spoiler (click to show/hide)
slip a mini shovel in the cake?
[close]

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Cause the warden took it off his horse and slipped it under the cake. I think he's fed up with these "gods" and his speech was all a ruse.
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 09, 2019, 11:33:06 AM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Oh, now that makes sense. I thought it was the most recent Mr. Phillips and Ms. Crookshanks put it in the cake.

One has to wonder, if the Games Warden is the original Mr. Phillips, where is the original Ms. Crookshank?
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 09, 2019, 12:45:09 PM
Still no Looking Glass :social2

We also still don't know who Oily Man is.  :doge
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on December 09, 2019, 01:25:34 PM
Still no Looking Glass :social2

We also still don't know who Oily Man is.  :doge

This week's Peteypedia offerings pretty much give it away. Lubeman is wearing a Fogdancer uniform.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on December 10, 2019, 06:31:17 PM
Latest episode was again amazing. This series has definitely exceeded expectations.

Also, when Veidt returns he's going to murder all these Rosarch clowns  :mynicca
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 15, 2019, 10:11:37 PM
(https://i.imgur.com/Mqi6dUL.png)
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 15, 2019, 10:24:33 PM
spoiler (click to show/hide)
Step on me, Lady Manhattan. :lawd
[close]
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 12:56:02 AM
welp that was something
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Yeti on December 16, 2019, 01:16:37 AM
Where was

spoiler (click to show/hide)
Lube Man?
[close]

 >:(
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 01:23:17 AM
still remains at large
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on December 16, 2019, 03:19:41 AM
A bit too convenient of a comic book ending, but I guess it wraps up nicely enough that if they don't do another season we don't get stuck with unanswered questions.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 16, 2019, 09:00:49 AM
I can see a lot of comic purists hating this show, they kinda "ruin" Veidt and Manhattan. Dude is the smartest guy alive but couldn't see LG's wrench coming? Please.

Also this is the guy who memorized, in one instant, the exact time and date Trieu said her satellite would fly over Europa, and kept an internal clock running until he could time an external clock to that flyover.

And his password is an easily-guessed 9 character phrase? C'mon.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 16, 2019, 09:05:50 AM
I could have also done without the mustache-twirling villain speech reiterating what everyone had already known/figured out.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 11:30:50 AM
the smartest people are not immune to hubris, as Veidt himself pointed out.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 16, 2019, 11:49:18 AM
still remains at large

Petey got done dirty. He didn't appear at all in this episode, either to confirm his identity as Lube Man, or any other capacity. I think the last time we saw him was when he was picking through the bodies at Looking Glasses' compound, right before Laurie got kidnapped in Episode 7.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 12:02:55 PM
Laurie got done kind of dirty too, Dr Manhattan didn't even acknowledge her
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 16, 2019, 12:54:08 PM
Laurie got done kind of dirty too, Dr Manhattan didn't even acknowledge her

Yeah, it kinda sucks. I thought her and Looking Glass were going to get to do something cool, but they just hung out for most of the episode until they got a chance to conk Adrian on the head. Hell, even Angela was pretty useless in this episode. Dr. Manhattan saved The Gang and then Adrian defeated Trieu and everyone else was just a bystander.

I did enjoy the conclusion of the Adrian/Clone arc, though. He got bored out of his mind being "God" so he had to manufacture his own opposition.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 01:00:34 PM
Laurie got done kind of dirty too, Dr Manhattan didn't even acknowledge her

Yeah, it kinda sucks. I thought her and Looking Glass were going to get to do something cool, but they just hung out for most of the episode until they got a chance to conk Adrian on the head. Hell, even Angela was pretty useless in this episode. Dr. Manhattan saved The Gang and then Adrian defeated Trieu and everyone else was just a bystander.

I did enjoy the conclusion of the Adrian/Clone arc, though. He got bored out of his mind being "God" so he had to manufacture his own opposition.

True. I was surprised how deferential Angela was to Lady Triu (sic). I was expecting her to try to attack her or something. I mean, I get it, Angela was functionally powerless against her, but going against all odds is not something that stopped her before. A lot of weird mischaracterizations this episode. It seems like they were in a hurry to wrap everything up in this one episode. I still enjoyed it a lot though.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 01:02:18 PM
On the Adrian arc: Dr. Manhattan had to know that he is effectively putting Adrian in a prison on Europa, right? Maybe that was his way of punishing Adrian.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 16, 2019, 01:27:46 PM
the smartest people are not immune to hubris, as Veidt himself pointed out.

Sure, and I can give the password thing a pass for that reason I suppose. But it's lazy writing because otherwise Trieu doesn't exist. If you hang the existence of a major character on something, you draw attention to it.

How he didn't see that wrench coming is something else though, lol. Like c'mon.

I'm also less enthused that the plot really was as simple as "good guy vs bad guy." Watchmen's entire thing was shading the heroes and villains gray to the point you can't tell them apart. The fact the ending and its debate has endured so long is a testament to that achievement.

It seems to me the purpose of Watchmen HBO season 1 was to "clear the boards" so a longer-lasting incarnation can take place. Between the death of Dr. Manhattan and the exposure of
Veidt's scheme, the status quo is back to even before issue #1.

All they need to do is re-legalize masked vigilantes and you can literally have a Saturday Morning Watchmen perpetual franchise now. :social2
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 01:35:06 PM
I just think that Adrian was convinced that he got them to be on board with the whole saving the world thing and that they were admiring him. Narcissists can be very clever, but always have their blind spots. Plus, he was probably not at his sharpest, with old age and years of isolation slowly driving him insane.

Also, shouldn't Looking Glass and Laurie also turn themselves in to law enforcement? They were accessories to the latest baby squid massacre (although we didn't really see anyone besides Lady Triu die, surely there was a collateral of innocent lives as well).
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on December 16, 2019, 02:04:40 PM
still remains at large

Petey got done dirty. He didn't appear at all in this episode, either to confirm his identity as Lube Man, or any other capacity. I think the last time we saw him was when he was picking through the bodies at Looking Glasses' compound, right before Laurie got kidnapped in Episode 7.

https://www.hbo.com/peteypedia

He's Lubeman, and also fired.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 02:13:34 PM
pretty bold of Petey to play a double game like that. Laurie is like the blade runner for vigilantes.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 16, 2019, 02:15:12 PM
https://twitter.com/InstituteLogPol/status/1206629302495858691
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 16, 2019, 02:48:37 PM
White people, just stay tuned for Season 2, where Petey is the hero we both need and deserve.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Dickie Dee on December 16, 2019, 07:35:23 PM
And his password is an easily-guessed 9 character phrase? C'mon.

Veidt having an easily guessed password was a plot point in the comics tho  :doge
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 16, 2019, 09:56:14 PM
And his password is an easily-guessed 9 character phrase? C'mon.

Veidt having an easily guessed password was a plot point in the comics tho  :doge

You think he'd learn tho :beli

Also wasn't that on purpose? Or is my memory fuzzy
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: bluemax on December 17, 2019, 12:38:07 AM
"Everything for 5 blocks will be vaporized!"

Reality: minor hail storm

What the fuck was the point of Lady Trieu cloning her mom?

What the fuck was the point of the elephant?

What landed in those people's backyard?

Angela in episode 8, goes all super bad ass kills a ton of white supremacists. Angela in episode 9, "hey guys, can we just talk things over?"

There were some good moments, but I dunno this show ended up pretty uneven in the end.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on December 17, 2019, 04:14:50 PM
How long do they think they can keep Veidt in prison let alone win the trial :lol
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Nintex on December 17, 2019, 04:44:15 PM
One of the best series I have seen this year.
It also ends with no real cliff-hanger. (there's something there to set up a sequel sure, but the main story is concluded).

I highly recommend it.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Mr. Gundam on December 17, 2019, 05:08:31 PM
I thought it was really good, and the Nostalgia episode was phenomenal.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 17, 2019, 06:07:50 PM
So is this just as bad as I imagined? Lindelof is a hack so now that it's over want to know what y'all thought.

no it was good
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Yeti on December 17, 2019, 06:12:20 PM
I thought the idea of doing more Watchmen is dumb, but I liked it.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 17, 2019, 06:19:15 PM
I tried watching this, it's fucking boring.

please forgive me Daddylof

 :stahp
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 17, 2019, 06:40:18 PM
Really great show, but kinda shits on the original comic so if you're a purist maybe stay away, and doesn't really stick the landing. Also has pacing issues (three straight flashback/exposition episodes right before the finale is ehhhh.)
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 17, 2019, 06:51:51 PM
Really great show, but kinda shits on the original comic so if you're a purist maybe stay away

Alright I guess I will. Seeing as I hated everything Lindelof wrote (Including The Leftovers) it's best I stay away anyway.

Hmm yeah it's definitely a Lindelof show as well, very typical of his style.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 17, 2019, 06:53:11 PM
I will say the nostalgia episode on its own is pretty much a masterpiece. Same strata as Part 8 of Twin Peaks: The Return or San Junipero from Black Mirror.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on December 17, 2019, 11:30:15 PM
so as i could surmise from the first few eps, Lindelof show XXX : Blue Penis Boogaloo. Hard Pass  :nope
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 18, 2019, 01:10:01 AM
yo gotta hand it to the crazy fuck though, not only did he acknowledge the giant squid canon but
spoiler (click to show/hide)
he called it back with the mini squid deus ex machina that resolved the finale
[close]

it's like poetry

  :lucas
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 18, 2019, 08:53:57 AM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7UCyN56EOR4

Modern tech is pretty damn amazing.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Himu on December 18, 2019, 10:20:07 AM
How did this show use black wall Street? I've heard of it doing that and want to know context
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on December 18, 2019, 10:59:20 AM
How did this show use black wall Street? I've heard of it doing that and want to know context

The Black Wall Street massacre is shown early on in the series and it's the flashpoint that all the themes of the show are based around. White supremacy and it's close ties to law enforcement, distrust of authority, people wearing masks and for what reasons (the Klan, "Masked Adventurers)", the use of terror by those in power in order to maintain their power, vigilantism vs justice,  "fixing the system from the inside" vs "fighting the system from the outside", etc.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Himu on December 18, 2019, 11:52:39 PM
How did this show use black wall Street? I've heard of it doing that and want to know context

The Black Wall Street massacre is shown early on in the series and it's the flashpoint that all the themes of the show are based around. White supremacy and it's close ties to law enforcement, distrust of authority, people wearing masks and for what reasons (the Klan, "Masked Adventurers)", the use of terror by those in power in order to maintain their power, vigilantism vs justice,  "fixing the system from the inside" vs "fighting the system from the outside", etc.

Damn. I need to watch this.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 23, 2019, 02:31:27 PM
How did this show use black wall Street? I've heard of it doing that and want to know context

The Black Wall Street massacre is shown early on in the series and it's the flashpoint that all the themes of the show are based around. White supremacy and it's close ties to law enforcement, distrust of authority, people wearing masks and for what reasons (the Klan, "Masked Adventurers)", the use of terror by those in power in order to maintain their power, vigilantism vs justice,  "fixing the system from the inside" vs "fighting the system from the outside", etc.

Damn. I need to watch this.

You do. It's the best thing I've seen on tv this year, including Chernobyl. People that don't like it are bad people with bad opinions who should feel bad. BAD, I SAID.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 23, 2019, 03:38:56 PM
it kind of sucks to not have a new episode to look forward to on a sunday
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: toku on December 26, 2019, 05:05:16 PM
The ending kinda left me cold to be honest. Show had me until the last 20 minutes or so of the finale. My favorite moment of the ending is probably Angela going to the theater and Lou Gossett Jr. telling her you can't heal under a mask.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 26, 2019, 08:14:19 PM
yeah, I'm not sure they stuck the landing, but what a journey it was! The whole business with the baby squids, and Angela becoming the new Dr Manhattan, I dunno about that one dawg
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 26, 2019, 08:17:36 PM
I dunno, I thought it ended perfectly. It was ostensibly about a plot to steal Dr Manhattan's powers but to me, the real genius was the Will/Angela story arc, and it nailed the fuck out of that. Anytime super heroes are involved, you're pretty much always going to end up with some dumb deus ex machina popping up at the last minute, kinda like... the original Watchmen books.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 26, 2019, 08:25:47 PM
I just don't know how they're gonna continue, if they are. Either Angela fucks off to Europa like the OG Manhattan, or she stays fighting crime like a generic super hero, which would be super goofy. There's probably other possibilities, but I lack imagination.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: toku on December 26, 2019, 08:35:56 PM
I dunno, I thought it ended perfectly. It was ostensibly about a plot to steal Dr Manhattan's powers but to me, the real genius was the Will/Angela story arc, and it nailed the fuck out of that. Anytime super heroes are involved, you're pretty much always going to end up with some dumb deus ex machina popping up at the last minute, kinda like... the original Watchmen books.

Yeah I think the biggest thing leaving me cold is like you said, the deus ex machina. I don't like how Lady Trieu went out at all.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 26, 2019, 08:38:17 PM
I didn't like how the squids practically didn't harm anyone except for lady triu, feels like they pulled their punches. Targeted precision squids.  :doge
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 26, 2019, 11:59:42 PM
If you wanna be pedantic about it, the squids didn't even kill her... the large hovering object that she was standing under did after it sustained enough direct squid hits to wreck it, which makes sense since it had a much larger surface area than the relatively small target presented by the average human head/shoulders.

I think it's perfect at one season. If you wanna do something in the Watchmen "universe" wait a couple years and do something mostly unrelated. Leave Dr Manhattan out of it, preferably.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on December 27, 2019, 12:14:06 AM
they punctured her hand almost immediately but failed to hurt anyone else iirc. The telephone booth is rock fucking solid.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 27, 2019, 11:27:37 PM
This was one of the most entertaining shows of the year and I'd recommend it to anyone. I will say however that Wrath forced me at gunpoint to read the comics after and it's amazing how much this isn't Watchmen. :lol It completely fails to translate the themes to a modern setting. It would be more accurate to say this is a wacky adventure in the Watchmen universe.

Yuppp...

Really great show, but kinda shits on the original comic so if you're a purist maybe stay away, and doesn't really stick the landing. Also has pacing issues (three straight flashback/exposition episodes right before the finale is ehhhh.)

I'm also less enthused that the plot really was as simple as "good guy vs bad guy." Watchmen's entire thing was shading the heroes and villains gray to the point you can't tell them apart. The fact the ending and its debate has endured so long is a testament to that achievement.

It seems to me the purpose of Watchmen HBO season 1 was to "clear the boards" so a longer-lasting incarnation can take place. Between the death of Dr. Manhattan and the exposure of
Veidt's scheme, the status quo is back to even before issue #1.

All they need to do is re-legalize masked vigilantes and you can literally have a Saturday Morning Watchmen perpetual franchise now. :social2

I agree it's a great show though. Like I said, the Nostalgia episode is absolutely top-tier TV.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 27, 2019, 11:31:28 PM
Doomsday Clock was probably the more faithful "sequel"... until the last couple issues when it got really DC heavy (and the integration of real world politics into the DCU wasn't handled too well IMO.)
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: nudemacusers on December 28, 2019, 02:10:20 AM
1:1 adaptations are boring af tbh
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Human Snorenado on December 28, 2019, 02:39:53 AM
bu bu bu bu gtfo with this nonsense

comic books are all absurdist trash, even the good shit like yer Alan Moores, yer Garth Ennises, and yer Warren Ellisessesesees

"omg this story and execution was basically god tier but because it isn't 'faithful' to a paranoid chaos wizard's heavily influenced by the era it was written in's mid 80's limited run it sucks"

comic book fans are the fucking worst, you're all trash, go watch the fucking shit tier Arrowverse, that's all you deserve

(yes I am drunk, yes everything said was true, yes you ALL FUCKING DESERVE THIS)
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: nudemacusers on December 28, 2019, 02:50:51 AM
Do me next daddy :noah
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on December 28, 2019, 09:27:04 AM
I have no problem enjoying the schlock of the Arrowverse either. :idont

And some people say Wrestling Fans have it bad.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Momo on December 30, 2019, 12:33:36 AM
bu bu bu bu gtfo with this nonsense

comic books are all absurdist trash, even the good shit like yer Alan Moores, yer Garth Ennises, and yer Warren Ellisessesesees

"omg this story and execution was basically god tier but because it isn't 'faithful' to a paranoid chaos wizard's heavily influenced by the era it was written in's mid 80's limited run it sucks"

comic book fans are the fucking worst, you're all trash, go watch the fucking shit tier Arrowverse, that's all you deserve

(yes I am drunk, yes everything said was true, yes you ALL FUCKING DESERVE THIS)
imagine being this salty and bitter
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on January 03, 2020, 11:58:48 PM
https://twitter.com/rocco_botte/status/1213302123498106881

:lol I always love Rocco's takes on things.
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Joe Molotov on January 04, 2020, 12:17:39 AM
Beast Wars was gay af tho
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Tasty on January 04, 2020, 10:36:28 AM
Beast Wars was gay af tho

They censored all the gay sex tho :(
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on January 14, 2020, 11:00:36 AM
wouldn't beast wars contain interspecies beastiality?

 :nugenix
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Great Rumbler on January 14, 2020, 01:31:36 PM
Is it still bestiality if no human is involved?  :thinking
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: agrajag on January 14, 2020, 02:02:02 PM
the bestiality expert has joined the chat
Title: Re: Lindelof fucks up Watchmen (HBO)
Post by: Don Rumata on January 14, 2020, 02:19:05 PM
If you can stand his tedious style,
I really can't.
it's been seven months and I didn't want to say this but I can't hold it in anymore. Rufus was talking about Hulk, not Lindelof
??? I know, me too.
I cant stand bis gimmick even if he occasionally makes some good points.