THE BORE
General => The Superdeep Borehole => Topic started by: The Miles Trahan Burger Experiment on February 12, 2007, 01:33:24 PM
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Mine would have to be 8 1/2, with La Dolce Vita coming in a close second. The greatest film about film ever made, imo.
But then again, LDV has some marvelous beauties on display... :drool
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I don't think I have seen, or even heard of most of these movies.
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Can you give me a summary on this director and what type of films he/she makes? I'll add the movies to my list. :-*
btw at this point, I request we need a MOVIE forum, because that seems to be the most popular subject here.
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La Dolce Vita. 8 1/2 is definitely a great movie, but it's pretty much the definition of "indulgent."
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I've only seen 8 1/2. :-\
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Federico Fellini is a famous director, heralded by many as the greatest Italian filmmaker of all time.
8 1/2 -- Centers on a director who has no real direction anymore, who can't decide on his next project -- or anything in his life, for that matter. It's probably in my top 10 favorites of all time.
La Dolce Vita -- Follows a celebrity journalist as he lives "the good life", which often leads to tragedy in the film. Basically, it's a fake biopic about a gossip columnist who wanders aimlessly around Italy.
Honestly, most of his films defy definition. You really do have to see them to grasp the full scope of the story.
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I've only seen 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vida. I'm gonna say the latter for now, but I would need to see a version of 8 1/2 where the subtitles were intelligable for most of the film.
And Anita Ekberg is fucking hot.
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I've only seen 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vida. I'm gonna say the latter for now, but I would need to see a version of 8 1/2 where the subtitles were intelligable for most of the film.
*ahem*
http://www.amazon.com/8-1-2-Criterion-Collection/dp/B00005QAPH/sr=8-1/qid=1171304426/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1563960-6845546?ie=UTF8&s=dvd (http://www.amazon.com/8-1-2-Criterion-Collection/dp/B00005QAPH/sr=8-1/qid=1171304426/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1563960-6845546?ie=UTF8&s=dvd)
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The greatest Italian filmmaker of all-time is DARIO ARGENTO.
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The greatest Italian filmmaker of all-time is DARIO ARGENTO.
Yeah... no.
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Yeah... YES
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Yeah... YES
The big boys are having a talk, Willco. And besides, Argento's output is mixed in quality, at best.
I don't like the fancier italian directors so much. They have their moments. I have to go with Sergio Leone.
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I don't consider Leone an Italian director. I mean, he hails from Italy and filmed there, but his most well known movies are American stories.
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I don't consider Leone an Italian director. I mean, he hails from Italy and filmed there, but his most well known movies are American stories.
So just because he made westerns, that means he's an American filmmaker?
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Spaghetti Westerns. :-[
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So just because he made westerns, that means he's an American filmmaker?
Outside of spaghetti westerns, he's known for Once Upon a Time in America. And that's about it. He made American stories with American actors for American audiences that were distributed by American companies. Leone rocks, but he's very Americanized.
Argento has a lot of stuff that's never seen the light of day here. Most American audiences know of Suspiria and that's about it. He even wrote one of Leone's best films! And produced George Romero's best film.
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So just because he made westerns, that means he's an American filmmaker?
Outside of spaghetti westerns, he's known for Once Upon a Time in America. And that's about it. He made American stories with American actors for American audiences that were distributed by American companies. Leone rocks, but he's very Americanized.
Argento has a lot of stuff that's never seen the light of day here. Most American audiences know of Suspiria and that's about it. He even wrote one of Leone's best films! And produced George Romero's best film.
So just because he, an Italian, filmed 2 movies in America, he's an American filmmaker? I don't think targeting your movies at a foreign audience changes your nationality, or the places where you filmed, or where and how you learned to make movies.
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I've only seen 8 1/2 and La Dolce Vida. I'm gonna say the latter for now, but I would need to see a version of 8 1/2 where the subtitles were intelligable for most of the film.
*ahem*
http://www.amazon.com/8-1-2-Criterion-Collection/dp/B00005QAPH/sr=8-1/qid=1171304426/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1563960-6845546?ie=UTF8&s=dvd (http://www.amazon.com/8-1-2-Criterion-Collection/dp/B00005QAPH/sr=8-1/qid=1171304426/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1/104-1563960-6845546?ie=UTF8&s=dvd)
My wallet says "some other time, buddy boy." I'm aware of the Criterion version, but it's out of my price range for now and not a particularly high priority.
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Willco, there's no way you're going to convince anyone that Dario Argento is better than Fellini.
And, at best I'd put Leone, who was an Italian filmmaker, a few paces behind Fellini.
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So just because he, an Italian, filmed 2 movies in America, he's an American filmmaker? I don't think targeting your movies at a foreign audience changes your nationality, or the places where you filmed, or where and how you learned to make movies.
He's from Italy, but he's very Americanized and that's my whole point. He has like, what, 10 films under his belt? And more than half were for American audiences featuring American actors in America distributed by American companies.
If Takashi Miike spent most of his entire career filming American stories with American actors to be released in America, but he just chose to film them in Japan, would we really hail him as a great Japanese filmmaker? I really doubt it.
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Willco, there's no way you're going to convince anyone that Dario Argento is better than Fellini.
That's your problem, not mine!
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So just because he, an Italian, filmed 2 movies in America, he's an American filmmaker? I don't think targeting your movies at a foreign audience changes your nationality, or the places where you filmed, or where and how you learned to make movies.
He's from Italy, but he's very Americanized and that's my whole point. He has like, what, 10 films under his belt? And more than half were for American audiences featuring American actors in America distributed by American companies.
If Takashi Miike spent most of his entire career filming American stories with American actors to be released in America, but he just chose to film them in Japan, would we really hail him as a great Japanese filmmaker? I really doubt it.
Alright, I'm not going to concede because your idea that Sergio Leone is an American filmmaker is PD-style distinguished mentally-challenged, but even ignoring that, Argento's output is extremely mixed, completely inconsistent, and his work in the 90s (and beyond) has been mostly bad.
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It must be hard being the only one who agrees with yourself.
Argento is a B-grade director with a few good films under his belt. Fellini was a true auteur who lived and breathed cinema, and whose filmography is by and large chock full of great, classic films.
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You never answered my question about Miike, probably because you can't! Does anybody call John Woo a Chinese director anymore? His Hong Kong body of work is about equal percentage-wise to that of Leone's Italian : US work.
It must be hard being the only one who agrees with yourself.
You're putting your face in the bosom of the man that likes Godard, so I roll my eyes with that one.
Argento is a B-grade director with a few good films under his belt. Fellini was a true auteur who lived and breathed cinema, and whose filmography is by and large chock full of great, classic films.
:lol
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You never answered my question about Miike, probably because you can't! Does anybody call John Woo a Chinese director anymore? His Hong Kong body of work is about equal percentage-wise to that of Leone's.
Answer my critique of Argento. If you think someone with output as inconsistent as his is the best Italian filmmaker, ugh I don't even know how to finish this sentence.
And of course John Woo is a Hong Kong director. He's just spent the last decade making movies for America. Making American movies doesn't change his nationality. His American movies have generally been US market friendly takes on material similar to his HK shaz.
Of course, he's a shitty director, though.
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Federico Fellini > Sergio Leone >>>> Dario Argento >>>>>>>>>> John Woo
Discussion over.
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Answer my critique of Argento. If you think someone with output as inconsistent as his is the best Italian filmmaker, ugh I don't even know how to finish this sentence.
I just completely disagree with you - what's there to answer. Argento is easily the most talented of the Italian filmmakers, as he has written screenplays (and a great one too!), produced some great films and done music on many. He's severely underrated, because his non-Suspiria (an awesome film in its own right) stuff, like Tenebre and Deep Red never see the light of day here. Argento rocks. Even his children are hot (mmm, Asia).
And of course John Woo is a Hong Kong director. He's just spent the last decade making movies for America. Making American movies doesn't change his nationality. His American movies have generally been US market friendly takes on material similar to his HK shaz.
Nobody refers to him as a HK director. He's too Americanized.
Of course, he's a shitty director, though.
I :lol'd at that one.
Federico Fellini > Sergio Leone >>>> Dario Argento >>>>>>>>>> John Woo
Discussion over.
Nope.
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Uh, wtf? I refer to John Woo as a Hong Kong director.
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Answer my critique of Argento. If you think someone with output as inconsistent as his is the best Italian filmmaker, ugh I don't even know how to finish this sentence.
I just completely disagree with you - what's there to answer. Argento is easily the most talented of the Italian filmmakers, as he has written screenplays (and a great one too!), produced some great films and done music on many. He's severely underrated, because his non-Suspiria (an awesome film in its own right) stuff, like Tenebre and Deep Red never see the light of day here. Argento rocks. Even his children are hot (mmm, Asia).
And of course John Woo is a Hong Kong director. He's just spent the last decade making movies for America. Making American movies doesn't change his nationality. His American movies have generally been US market friendly takes on material similar to his HK shaz.
Nobody refers to him as a HK director. He's too Americanized.
Of course, he's a shitty director, though.
I :lol'd at that one.
Federico Fellini > Sergio Leone >>>> Dario Argento >>>>>>>>>> John Woo
Discussion over.
Nope.
You're right, Willco. John Woo is definitely as American as John Wayne, and EVERYONE says so.
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Willco must live in a backwards world different from ours, where they never quote Evil Dead as long as it helps him in an argument, and Miike, Woo, and Leone are considered American directors. :spin
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Uh, wtf? I refer to John Woo as a Hong Kong director.
Yeah, right. This coming from the guy who says Evil Dead is quoted more than The Godfather. You're just argumentative for the sake of being argumentative. Come back to me when you can get to TVC level of antagonism, please.
You're right, Willco. John Woo is definitely as American as John Wayne, and EVERYONE says so.
Pretty much. I bet if you were to ask on the street if John Woo was an American director, most of the unwashed masses would say YES.
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THINGS I SAY ARE TRUE BECAUSE I SAY THEM, ASK ANYONE! ::)
What a pathetic stunt.
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No, what's pathetic is claming Evil Dead is quoted more than The Godfather :lol
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You make it sound as if Leone didn't release those films in Italy at all. Spaghetti westerns were extremely popular in Italy at the time, despite being American/Mexican stories. Saying he made them for American audiences is only a half-truth.
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And TVC, I'm not saying Leone or Woo are American directors, but I don't think it's fair to critique their comparative catalogs to those of true foriegn filmmakers when most of their work is very much American.
You make it sound as if Leone didn't release those films in Italy at all. Spaghetti westerns were extremely popular in Italy at the time, despite being American/Mexican stories. Saying he made them for American audiences is only a half-truth.
No, but Leone knew where his bread was buttered and it was with American audiences. He made them for American audiences. The American western was just very popular in Italy at the time, so it was a win-win situation.
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Everyone versus Willco! :punch
Robo: The CC is definitely worth the cash. Image also has a single disc for a fraction of the price though.
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Everyone versus Willco! :punch
You wish. Unlike you, what people think is irrelevant. Obviously you take emotional stock into what people say. Go find your crazy Evil Dead-quoting friends, the ones that quote it all the time non-stop, and those crazed millions of fans that claim Raiders is a life-changing, flawless masterpiece to tell them about how you rallied your troops (all three) against the Internet villain, Will Federman.
Or post more on evilbore because you don't have friends.
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What? You're mosre incoherant than am nintenho when you're mad, Willy...
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I forgot this part: :punch
What? You're mosre incoherant than am nintenho when you're mad, Willy...
So now you can't read either.
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Man, I wish TVC would argue some more so someone worthwhile could post in this thread.
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Someone's catching feelings. :rofl
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Catching feelings? Now who's being incoherent.
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Anyway, please leave my thread if you have nothing worthwhile to post about Fellini's films, Willco. ;)
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Maybe he should've made some worthwhile films, Shake.
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Maybe he should've made some worthwhile films, Shake.
You're just blind trolling now, Willco. You mean, make worthwhile films like Pelts and Jenifer? :rofl
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What, did you just go to imdb and find out that he directed episodes of a TV show? Have you seen either, by the way? Pelts was pretty entertaining. Although, they're not films. You probably didn't know that.
Fellini is just a pretentious art fart guy, like Godard. He's a convenient name drop, so that if you're in a room with TVC-like film snobs, you guys can cum in your pants. When in reality, his films are boring and his filmography is easily outmatched by superior Italian born directors like Bertolucci, Argento and Leone (he was born there, this is true, TVC!).
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Pelts and Jenifer were both MoH episodes, correct? And since when does "entertaining" B-movie fluff top the superior works of Fellini, Willco? Oh, right. In you're disturbed, warped little mind. ::)
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Have you ever watched Deep Red, Tenebre or Suspiria? Maybe the latter, I'm guessing. Which, by the way, is a highly accomplished and well directed film. Fellini is only superior if you live in a world where you believe Evil Dead is quoted more than The Godfather. Could Fellini produce what is now known as a classic in the horror genre (I'm talking Dawn of the Dead)? Could Fellini work on scores, memorable scores, for multiple films? Could Fellini write fantastic screenplays (that were not directed by him)?
Because Argento did, in addition to directing a bunch of good, entetertaining films and a couple of awesome ones.
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Fellini didn't work in the horror genre, so no, I don't think he "produce what is now known as a classic in the horror genre". ::)
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And Argento did not work solely in horror. Some of his best work is in suspense/thriller category. Shows how much you know about Argento! At least I tried to sit La Dolce Vita.
...so no, I don't think he "produce what is now known as a classic in the horror genre". ::)
Are you disputing Dawn of the Dead is considered a landmark film and a classic in horror? I can show you a bunch of lists, including critics, that would say otherwise. And I'm not talking Fangoria.
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I'm talking about Fellini, dude. Keep up.
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That's why I asked you to clarify if you were trying to be sarcastic and insult Argento, which you obviously didn't read because you're too busy telling your Evil Dead-quoting friends to PIPE DOWN.
If this is your idea of film debate, I'm going to get MSN working again so I can go online and have TVC berate me. At least he can read!
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No, but Leone knew where his bread was buttered and it was with American audiences. He made them for American audiences. The American western was just very popular in Italy at the time, so it was a win-win situation.
That is debatable. The American western was popular in Italy before the onset of spaghetti westerns. How could he have known that a film starring a relatively unknown American actor with a supporting cast of overdubbed Italians would be even remotely successful in a country where Hollywood is giving the public the legitmate thing? Being successful in America is where the win-win comes into play.
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Willco, please leave my thread if you're going to do nothing but troll and spout incoherant bullshit. ;)
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How could he have known that a film starring a relatively unknown American actor with a supporting cast of overdubbed Italians would be even remotely successful in a country where Hollywood is giving the public the legitmate thing?
I'm going to dispute this, for sure. Eastwood was definitely not an unknown. He was a very well known TV actor. It'd be like Clooney making the jump to movies. His first pick as Henry Fonda, so this was always meant to be sent to America.
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I like how one of Willco's arguments in favor of Argento is that a lot of his movies haven't been released outside of Italy. That sure is a sign of quality, especially coming from such an inconsistent director as Argento.
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How could he have known that a film starring a relatively unknown American actor with a supporting cast of overdubbed Italians would be even remotely successful in a country where Hollywood is giving the public the legitmate thing?
I'm going to dispute this, for sure. Eastwood was definitely not an unknown. He was a very well known TV actor. It'd be like Clooney making the jump to movies. His first pick as Henry Fonda, so this was always meant to be sent to America.
I won't doubt that it was meant to be released in America. I'm doubting that the prime audience was intented to be American. There was already a secured audience in Italy and being the first spaghetti western film released internationally, its success was merely a welcomed biproduct. Also Eastwood is a total moron in Rawhide. I'll give you that he was well known, but from watching that show, I think it would have been an exceptionally risky casting move had it's success been riding on the States reception. The whole thing was risky, and probably why Fonda and Charles Bronson both turned down the role.
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I like how one of Willco's arguments in favor of Argento is that a lot of his movies haven't been released outside of Italy. That sure is a sign of quality, especially coming from such an inconsistent director as Argento.
That's not my argument in favor of Argento at all, you loveable scamp, you.
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Federico Fellini is a famous director, heralded by many as the greatest Italian filmmaker of all time.
The greatest Italian filmmaker of all-time is DARIO ARGENTO.
You guys are both out of your fucking trees. The greatest Italian filmmaker who ever lived was...
Sergio Leone.
Thread saved by Whitey. There was some serious blasphemy up until this point. And dont give me and range or quantity of films garbage. A Fistful of Dollars, For A Few Dollars More, and especially The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly and Once Opon A Time In The West ALONE cement him as one of the alltime greats. He's my personal #1, just ahead of Kubrick and Hitchcock.
Leone is probably my single greatest inspiration in film.
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I like how one of Willco's arguments in favor of Argento is that a lot of his movies haven't been released outside of Italy. That sure is a sign of quality, especially coming from such an inconsistent director as Argento.
That's not my argument in favor of Argento at all, you loveable scamp, you.
You said "Argento has a lot of stuff that's never seen the light of day here" like it's a good thing, when it almost certainly is not.
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You said "Argento has a lot of stuff that's never seen the light of day here" like it's a good thing, when it almost certainly is not.
In regards to his filmography being more Italian than Leone's, not that all his films are better than Leone's. I like Leone more than Argento.
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You said "Argento has a lot of stuff that's never seen the light of day here" like it's a good thing, when it almost certainly is not.
In regards to his filmography being more Italian than Leone's, not that all his films are better than Leone's. I like Leone more than Argento.
So you would say he is the better Italian filmmaker, then?
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See, I think the label transcends where you're born, but that being an Italian filmmaker means making a body of work representative to the style or culture or tone or attitude or setting or all of the above of your country. Argento and Bertolucci are very much Italian filmmakers (fuck Fellini), but I always have felt that Leone was an Italian that made American films.
If the argument is that, of all directors simply born in Italy, who is better, then Leone wins hands down.
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Also, to answer the topic: La Dolce Vita
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Eastwood WAS an unknown when he starred in FAD. All he'd done were some guest spots on Rawhide or some shit. Thats why he was in Italy in the first place, trying to get some work.
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All he'd done were some guest spots on Rawhide or some shit. Thats why he was in Italy in the first place, trying to get some work.
Solo, he was very popular on Rawhide. He was a household name in terms of TV actors at the time. Fuck, even my Grandma told me she remembers him from TV.
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All I remember is that, from several docs/Clint interviews, he was basically at the point of quitting acting and become a carpenter or something like that, when his agent suggested he star in a few Italian westerns. 3 films later he was an icon.
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He had a hard time breaking into films because of his popularity on Rawhide. It was like Jason Alexander post-Seinfeld.
I'm sure he didn't want to TV all his life. Rawhide was several years. Leone took a chance on him, really because everyone turned him down. :lol
After it was completed, it took a little bit to come Stateside, but it had a pretty huge marketing push behind it. Leone definitely made something that appealed to wide audience.
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Indeed - he bested Kurosawa. Something that pretty much no one else can say. Then he proceeded to best himself in the next 2 installments of the trilogy. Pretty amazing.
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Yeah, but didn't Kurosawa get royalties off the movie?
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Not sure, he might have. In fact I think he may have sued. I dont recall.
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Yeah, Leone had to pay up. He admits to really liking the film though.
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I can't wait 'till Hollywood decides to rape Kurosawa with a full-fledge Seven Samurai remake with actual samurai starring every Asian star we know!
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Fistful is so awesome. Its so much more low budget and condensed than either of its sequels, but therein lies its charm. Leone made a tight, insanely watchable, timeless film with a shoestring budget. I think I liked Clint's character the most in this one. He did a bit more than just be cool. His comedic style is awesome. As I said, better than Yojimbo, and still stands for me as the best "stranger comes to town and plays rival gangs off eachother" movie ever.
"Get 3 coffins ready"
*stuff happens*
"My mistake. Make that 4 coffins"
They just HAVE to release the restored version of FOD and FAFDM on R1 DVD sometime :_(
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It's crazy that he was able to out-badass Mifune and make it appear so effortless.
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"Get 3 coffins ready"
*stuff happens*
"My mistake. Make that 4 coffins"
Yeah, I love Yojimbo too, tut tut. :-*
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It's crazy that he was able to out-badass Mifune and make it appear so effortless.
Indeed. Clint of those 3 films just had an undefinable coolness and a swagger that has never been matched.
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It's crazy that he was able to out-badass Mifune and make it appear so effortless.
Indeed. Clint of those 3 films just had an undefinable coolness and a swagger that has never been matched.
Agreed. I've never seen any actor own a role and make it so badass with such little effort - it just oozes out of him.
The Man with No Name is probably the coolest character in any movie ever. And Clint Eastwood is like the coolest man ever :o
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I'd rather watch an Argento movie than a Fellini one, honestly. Fellini leaves me cold. Very cold. La Strada was like watching a mime do his routine for two hours. 8 1/2 was fun... and ridiculously self-indulgent. Meh. Frankly I could think of 100 directors I'd rather watch than Fellini.
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The greatest film about film ever made, imo.
One last falsity I had to fix. Cinema Paradiso is the best film about film ever made.
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The greatest film about film ever made, imo.
One last falsity I had to fix. Cinema Paradiso is the best film about film ever made.
No, you're both wrong. The greatest film ever made about film is... BOWFINGER!
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Isn't Rocky Horror kind of about movies? I vote for that.